[02:18] <ArneGoetje> asac: firefox-3.5/xulrunner-1.9.1 translations have not been fully imported yet. Therefor I will enable devmode for the next language-pack update (Sunday).
[08:40] <asac> ArneGoetje: hmm
[08:41] <asac> ArneGoetje: i am a bit scared now
[08:41] <asac> i will be on vacation for that whole week
[08:41] <asac> you think you can handle it?
[08:41] <asac> oh right. .. idea was going for PPA first
[08:41] <asac> that should be fine i guess
[08:41] <asac> unfortunately i cannot review it until monday 31st
[08:55] <Mark__T> anyone involved in indicator-applet development?
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> Mark__T - that would be tedg, but he's not around at the moment
[10:17] <mac_v> anyone know why ttf-bitstream-vera gives this error> Package ttf-bitstream-vera has no available version, but exists in the database.   This typically means that the package was mentioned in a dependency and never uploaded, has been obsoleted or is not available with the contents of sources.list
[10:17] <james_w> mac_v: it's been removed
[10:17] <james_w> in favour of ttf-dejavu
[10:17] <mac_v> james_w: oh :(
[10:18] <james_w> why's that bad?
[10:18] <mac_v> james_w: i use vera for a lot of my fonts , now i have to change all the settings , conky and rest
[10:19] <james_w> yeah, I'm not too sure why it was done like this
[10:20] <mac_v> james_w: are you aware who would know , why this was done? i dont want to change all the settings and again have to rest them , if this was a transient error
[10:23] <james_w> it wasn't transient
[10:23] <james_w> it was done in Debian following upstream's lead
[10:23] <mac_v> sheesh!  :(
[10:27] <tullarisc> Hi
[10:28] <tullarisc> I wondered if someone could help to make a package out of supertux, supratux or tuxjunior ... I would like to maintain it but I have no idea about the ubuntu package inclusion procedure .
[12:37] <SiDi> asac: you're a nm developer, right ?
[12:39] <asac> SiDi: i sometimes try
[12:39] <asac> :)
[12:39] <asac> nm stuff is best dealt in #nm ;)
[12:39] <asac> where we have access to full upstream infusion ;)
[12:42] <SiDi> asac: okey :p
[12:44] <davmor2> asac: I'm about to go for lunch but when I return I'm having issues with n-m0.8 on kubuntu I can connect to wpa with no issues but it isn't liking wep
[12:45] <davmor2> will try open when I get back
[13:17] <ArneGoetje> asac: why are you scared?
[13:18] <asac> ArneGoetje: because i am gone
[13:18] <ArneGoetje> asac: ?
[13:18] <asac> but i am not scared, because i trust you to test the main languages
[13:18] <asac> before rolling to archive (from ppa)
[13:18] <ArneGoetje> asac: heh
[13:18] <asac> ArneGoetje: i am on vacation next week
[13:18] <asac> back on 1st sep
[13:18] <ArneGoetje> asac: I see
[13:20] <asac> ArneGoetje: if you could kick off the run today in case there are errors or failures it would be great.
[13:20] <ArneGoetje> asac: the import is not done yet :(
[13:20] <asac> you could probably try with old exports to see if devmode actually works
[13:23] <ArneGoetje> asac: I can try
[13:24] <asac> great
[14:24] <Mark__T> tedg: ping
[14:27] <jcastro> didrocks: so I was figuring out james_w's bzr dailydeb thing and I can do quickly dailies if you want to make a new ppa
[14:39] <kenvandine> hey Mark__T
[14:39] <tedg> Mark__T: Pong!
[14:41] <Mark__T> I just did bzr pull and found that all the indicator-applet libs disapeared
[14:41] <Mark__T> found that you moved them to libindicate just a few minutes ago
[14:42] <Mark__T> I was surprised and wanted to ask you where they are before that
[14:44] <rickspencer3> bryce: sweet blog post on bug upstreaming
[14:48] <tedg> Mark__T: We split up the package into three source packages just to make it easier to assign bugs/build/etc.
[14:48] <tedg> Mark__T: Actually, the Xubuntu folks were some of the folks asking for it.
[14:49] <Mark__T> is xubuntu going to use it?
[14:51] <tedg> Mark__T: I think so, I believe they packaged up your messaging menu...
[14:52] <tedg> I haven't heard much recently.  But, last I checked it was.
[14:52] <Mark__T> what is their standard mail app?
[15:00] <tedg> Mark__T: I'm not sure.
[15:01] <tedg> Mark__T: I think they were more interested for IM and using the notifications.  But I'm not sure.
[15:01] <Mark__T> Okay, I still didn't have time to look into claws to make it indicator aware. I'm hoping, if xubuntu uses claws and indicator, someone pops up doing that :-P
[15:02] <tedg> Mark__T: That would be cool.
[15:03] <Mark__T> can't be hard too hard to hack claws notify plugin
[15:44] <Mark__T> tedg: how do I build libindicator.so?
[15:46] <Mark__T> Oh, that's number 3 of the split :-)
[16:11] <rickspencer3> hmm
[17:18] <kenvandine> asac, anything i need to do for a package that has split from one source package into 2?
[17:18] <kenvandine> libindicate is now a separate source package, i assume we don't treat it as a new package?
[17:19] <kenvandine> and should i remove all the old indicator-applet entries from the changelog?
[17:20] <asac> kenvandine: you can fork two packages out of a single tree (keeping changelog in both) ... or keep on using the source package for one part ... or do completely new source pakages
[17:20] <asac> if thats what you ask
[17:20] <kenvandine> sort of
[17:20] <asac> besides from that it has to go through new
[17:20] <kenvandine> upstream (dx team) has split the source into two trees
[17:20] <kenvandine> well 3 actually
[17:20] <asac> and take care that you use the same binaries ... if not you need to transition them properly
[17:20] <asac> of course you need higher version to take over the binaries
[17:21] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:21] <asac> once all done, remember to file a removal bug and assign ubuntu-archive
[17:21] <kenvandine> it creates mostly the same binaries
[17:21] <kenvandine> some new ones
[17:21] <asac> err subscribe ;)
[17:21] <kenvandine> ok
[17:21] <asac> kenvandine: binaries == packages in this context
[17:21] <asac> kenvandine: also remember that if you move binaries (real binaries) from one to other packages you need Replaces:/Conflicts: on them
[17:21] <kenvandine> ok, the real change is the source is new
[17:22] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:22] <kenvandine> there is a Replace
[17:22] <asac> kenvandine: so how was the released tarball name(s) upstream before and now?
[17:22] <kenvandine> it used to come from indicator-applet tarball
[17:22] <kenvandine> now it is a separate tarball
[17:23] <kenvandine> so now it is libindidate_version.tar.gz
[17:23] <mac_v> kenvandine: hi... after your discussion with asac , i have a question to ask , :) I'll wait
[17:23] <kenvandine> asac, so am i on the right track?
[17:23] <asac> kenvandine: and indicator-applet tarball still exists?
[17:23] <kenvandine> yes
[17:23] <kenvandine> it just doesn't build libindicate anymore
[17:24] <asac> yeah. then drop binary packages from indicator applet, put them in new source libindicate and either start a new package or keep the full changelog
[17:24] <asac> i would keep it if i reuse the other packages parts
[17:24] <kenvandine> asac, ok... that was what i was planning to do
[17:24] <kenvandine> good
[17:24] <kenvandine> mac_v, what's up?
[17:25] <mac_v> kenvandine: i'm trying to figure out a way to make the boot splash progress bar consistent [as in, not stop at one point and zoom again] have you guys any info about it , or why did you guys drop the progress bar? is it not possible at all?
[17:26] <kenvandine> no idea
[17:26] <kenvandine> bratsche, ^^
[17:27] <bratsche> I'm not sure what you mean.
[17:27] <mac_v> bratsche: i was talking to mat_t he said the reason for dropping the progress bar was because it was not consistent
[17:28] <bratsche> Right.. it wasn't very accurate.
[17:28] <mac_v> it doesnt progress at a steady speed, it stops in between then again zooms
[17:28] <kenvandine> mac_v, well it isn't possible to make the progress bar accurate
[17:28] <kenvandine> mac_v, so... it is kind of useless
[17:29] <kenvandine> and when you boot in under 10 seconds, why does it matter?
[17:29] <mac_v> kenvandine: bratsche: i was thinking , since there is difficulty finding out the time consumed by the process , how about a hack which calculates the boot time at the first boot and then every time the progress bar depends on that time
[17:29] <bratsche> Exactly.  We're trying to reduce the startup time anyway, so a progress bar is a lot less useful anyway.
[17:30] <kenvandine> mac_v, our hope is the splash is shown so briefly, you would never get a chance to register what the progress is
[17:30] <mac_v> i feel we have a nice feature ,and why drop it :) it actually shows off the speed of the boot
[17:30] <bratsche> We're not convinced that it's a good feature. :)
[17:31] <mac_v> ;p , oh well... then its just me then
[17:31] <bratsche> Plus you need some communication mechanism between all the components that are starting up so they can notify as they're done and you can advance your progressbar.. and stuff like that ultimately is just going to slow things down a bit.
[17:32] <mac_v> right good point , i never thought of that :(
[17:32] <bratsche> In the future we'll be able to start even faster as more important problems are solved (e.g., compiz, Nautilus, panel)
[17:32] <kenvandine> mac_v, trying to keep it simple
[17:33] <mac_v> yeah  , i guess you are right , well boot for me exactly wasnt 10 secs , so i didnt think of this :)
[17:33] <mac_v> bratsche: kenvandine nevermind then , thanx guys
[17:33] <bratsche> mac_v: We shouldn't be investing any more effort into splash screens and progress bars and things that are ultimately useless.  We should be investing effort into solving startup time for compiz and others.
[17:34] <mac_v> bratsche: yeah , are there any bugs regarding the panel in Karmic , which starts very late ?
[17:34] <bratsche> mac_v: All the new startup fu has not yet landed in Karmic, so you're not seeing the actual Karmic startup time yet.
[17:34] <hyperair> what new startup fu?
[17:34] <bratsche> I think the stuff Scott has been working on.
[17:34] <bratsche> kenvandine: That hasn't landed in Karmic yet right?
[17:35] <hyperair> specifically what changes?
[17:35] <kenvandine> bratsche, not yet
[17:35] <kenvandine> hyperair, starting gdm super early
[17:35] <bratsche> hyperair: I'm not involved in it, so I don't know.  I've only seen him demo it.
[17:35] <kenvandine> so you never even see usplash
[17:36] <bratsche> hyperair: But basically he's moving things so that X is one of the earliest things that starts.
[17:36] <hyperair> that is interesting
[17:36] <kenvandine> so you go from a black screen right into xsplash
[17:36] <bratsche> And a number of other changes under the hood that I'm not at all familiar with.
[17:36] <hyperair> but if you don't see usplash, how will you key in your dm-crypt password?
[17:36] <kenvandine> they are handling that somehow
[17:36] <hyperair> i see
[17:36] <kenvandine> i am not involved with that
[17:36] <hyperair> i was hoping for something more login-centric =(
[17:37] <kenvandine> i did hear it mentioned though
[17:37] <hyperair> like compiz starting faster, or something
[17:37] <bratsche> You can still fall back to usplash and stuff under some circumstances, such as when you have to run fsck and all that.
[17:37] <hyperair> right now my login time is > 50% of the entire statup time
[17:37] <hyperair> startup*
[17:37] <kenvandine> hyperair, the goal is 10 seconds from boot to full desktop
[17:37] <kenvandine> for karmic +1
[17:37] <bratsche> Yes.
[17:37] <kenvandine> so we hope to get as close as possible for karmic
[17:37] <hyperair> that sounds great, (so when will we see login stuff changes?)
[17:37] <mac_v> bratsche: the xsplash flicker , you have committed the fix but havent linked the branch , is it still in progress or?
[17:38] <bratsche> mac_v: It's merged into master, but I'm trying to solve another bug now before we do a release.
[17:38] <mac_v> hmm... ok , was just hoping to test it out... by i'll wait :)
[17:38] <bratsche> Hang on, I'll get you a link to the branch if you want.
[17:39] <bratsche> mac_v: You're welcome to build from master and test it if you want.
[17:39] <mac_v> cool
[17:39] <mac_v> master , nope
[17:39] <bratsche> The bug we're fixing now is related to if you're in a non-composited environment.  If you're using compiz then feel free to build from master.
[17:40] <mac_v> bratsche: right now my karmic is on the edge , will try when i get a few other things sorted out :)
[17:49] <bratsche> kenvandine: I'm getting the same error about insufficient privileges (the dbus warning).. when I'm running in metacity.  Weird.
[17:49] <bratsche> kenvandine: Any idea why the WM or compositing environment would affect this?
[17:54] <kenvandine> bratsche, no... that shouldn't matter
[18:01] <bratsche> It's definitely working with compiz, and it's definitely not working with metacity.  Weird.
[18:01] <bratsche> Fucking weird.
[18:02] <kenvandine> Riddell, ping
[18:06] <kenvandine> Riddell, indicator stuff is prepared and waiting to be sponsored if you want to do it
[18:07] <kenvandine> bug 417039
[18:07] <kenvandine> and
[18:07] <kenvandine> bug 417035