[00:18] <bazhang> * [Chien2Rohff41] (n=just4tes@41.105.13.103):  les amis seems to be ban dodging
[00:19] <bazhang> ah he quit
[00:31] <Pici> bazhang: its fine to ban again if you think they are dodging.
[00:31] <Pici> oh, you did, nevermind
[00:34] <bazhang> Pici, right, he quit; then returned
[02:58]  * Pici sighs
[02:58] <Pici> The bot has been gone for like 45 minutes and no one reported it?
[02:58] <Flannel> Pici! Pici! Ubottu is gone!
[02:58] <Flannel> She's fallen in the old well!
[02:59] <Pici> *bark*bark*bark*
[03:01] <Pici> Starting to sync now, so hopeully wont be too much longer
[06:20] <Myrtti> lovely
[06:32] <ikonia> got him in pm
[06:35] <ikonia> he was a jerk in PM, constantly messing around. I'll shift the ban after 48 hours when he either may not come back, or comes back without the need to be an idiot
[11:12] <jussi01> ikonia: see pm please
[12:43]  * jpds takes a look.
[12:47] <jussi01> Lads and Ladies, we need to remember to clear our oldbans,not just in #ubuntu
[12:47] <nalioth> and #ubuntu-offtopic
[12:52] <jussi01> nalioth: read carefully what I just said :)
[12:54]  * nalioth has not sletp in days and is doing well to maintain minimal function
[12:59] <Pici> I find it handy to have a bookmark that looks for unremoved bans in my name
[13:00] <topyli> @btlogin
[13:02] <Myrtti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/256868/
[13:03] <Pici> Thanks, but I also like to remove my bans in context with the logs
[13:04] <Myrtti> Pici: so do I - I just can't find anything useful with the search of bt
[13:06] <Pici> http://ubottu.com/bans.cgi?query=pici&kicks=off&oldbans=off&bans=on&oldmutes=off&mutes=on&floods=off
[13:11] <ikonia> genius thy names are Pici and Myrtti
[13:35] <Pici> @login
[15:33] <ziroday> Hi all, orochi generally trolling and sending me grouchy PM's. Someone might want to keep an eye on him/her
[15:33] <ziroday> thanks!
[15:58] <orochi> So, which Ubuntu channels are you allowed to use "extreme" language in? Where is the list of words that you're not allowed to use?
[15:58] <Pici> None
[15:58] <orochi> That's only half an answer. :>
[15:58] <ikonia> orochi: just common sense really,
[15:58] <Pici> It was the answer to the first question.
[15:58] <orochi> ikonia: Not really, no. You can prick your finger but you can't finger your prick, for example. :P
[15:59] <ikonia> orochi: that's common sense
[15:59] <ikonia> orochi: pricking the finger is different than talking about pricks (penis)
[15:59] <orochi> I assume there must be a list of words that Ubuntu has decided you can't say, how else would you base bans on that reason?
[15:59] <Pici> orochi: And you seem to know the difference so use common sense...
[15:59] <ikonia> just use polite conversation,
[15:59] <ikonia> orochi: its not specific words, although obviously swear words would be obvious
[15:59] <ikonia> orochi: it's the topic, eg: we'll fix your film problems, we don't need to know it's a porn film
[16:00] <orochi> ikonia: What if I was talking about my opposition to the Iraq War in offtopic for example? Some consider that offensive
[16:00] <jussi01> !o4o
[16:00] <ikonia> orochi: yes, I can see how that maybe offensive,
[16:00] <Pici> If they asked you to stop, then do so.
[16:00] <orochi> ikonia: So will you ban me from offtopic for mentioning it?
[16:00] <ikonia> orochi: just use common sense, talk about it, if people find it a bit to harsh, move away
[16:00] <ikonia> orochi: not at all, just guide you away from it
[16:01] <Pici> Bans are a last resort
[16:01] <ikonia> orochi: although it's also a valid topic, so don't stray into dangerous water in it, just use common sense to judge the topic/mood
[16:01] <orochi> ikonia: I'm sure you can see the problem. :> What is defined as "offensive" is too vague to really know what you can and can't say in -offtopic
[16:01] <ikonia> orochi: not really, common sense and respond to the channel
[16:01] <orochi> In some cases it's clear, in other's it's really not
[16:01] <ikonia> if it's not clear and you use it, you'll be asked to stop
[16:01] <ikonia> not a problem
[16:02] <orochi> ikonia: Alright...so if I've got this straight...try not to mention anything that might possibly be offensive to anyone at all, ever, or else I'll be asked to stop. Even if it's in an offtopic channel where one would think any topic would be up for grabs. Got it :>
[16:03] <ikonia> no
[16:03] <ikonia> that's being silly
[16:03] <ikonia> re-read what ubottu posted on 040
[16:03] <ikonia> some topics can be a bit offensive so judge them with the mood
[16:03] <ikonia> stating your opinion is fine, but just follow the tone and requests of the channel
[16:03] <orochi> Otherwise I'll be asked to stop, and if I don't stop then the ban hammer comes down. Well, at least I have advanced warning, in the event I accidentally say some word that someone in some language doesn't like :>
[16:03] <ikonia> it's not a "word"
[16:04] <ikonia> you seem to be trying to provoe a situation
[16:04] <ikonia> just use common sense,
[16:04] <ikonia> people in the channel will guide you if it's a bit too close to the rules
[16:04] <ikonia> it's moderated by the users in the channel generally, so just follow the tone
[16:04] <orochi> ikonia: I'm not trying to provoke a situation, I was told to come here and ask for clarification on the rules rather than do it in #ubuntu :> You seem to be interpreting it as a provocation but that's not really my fault
[16:05] <orochi> Is there somewhere else I should go to ask questions about the channel to the ops?
[16:05] <ikonia> to get ops where ?
[16:05] <ikonia> you're in the channel with the operators in
[16:05] <orochi> Yes, I noticed, but if one of those ops happens to think that I'm trying to "provoke a situation" then I'm probably not going to get to ask many questions for long :>
[16:05] <Pici> orochi: Sometimes it seems like people are looking for loopholes.
[16:06] <ikonia> orochi: ok - so the bottom line is listen to the channel and use common sense
[16:06] <ikonia> orochi: people will give you friendly nudges if the topic strays too far
[16:06] <ikonia> there is no "ban hammer" after a warning, it's much more friendly than that
[16:06] <ikonia> if you ignore the requests, then yes, you can be banned, which is a reasonable step for someone refusing to follow guidence
[16:06] <ikonia> does that make it a little more clear for you ?
[16:07] <orochi> Pici: Perhaps yes, I can understand that...but treating a regular visitor as someone who's trying to provoke an argument just for asking a few questions is a bit much, it's not at all "friendly" to people who are recommended to come here for advice
[16:07] <ikonia> orochi: then I apologise to you and hope that you now understand the guidelines for #ubuntu-offtopic
[16:07] <orochi> ikonia: What will happen is perfectly clear to me, yes. :> What will cause it to happen isn't so clear but I'm guessing that won't be resolved, I'll just assume that my speech is restricted in those channels and act accordingly.
[16:07] <ikonia> orochi: that's right, just follow the topic and guidlines
[16:07] <Pici> orochi: We don't get a lot of curious people here, sometimes we get stuck in the wrong mode for dealign with people.
[16:08] <ikonia> incase you missed it before
[16:08] <ikonia> !o4o
[16:08] <ikonia> ^ ^
[16:08] <ikonia> orochi: note "take care" not "don't speak"
[16:08] <orochi> ikonia: Take care is more polite language yes, but it translates into "don't speak" if you do it more than once, no? ;P
[16:09] <orochi> I'll read it over in either case
[16:09] <ikonia> no it doesn't translate to don't speak
[16:09] <Pici> The topics are not banned; stating your position is ok....
[16:09] <ikonia> it translates to "take care with how you discuss the topics, they can upset people"
[16:09] <ikonia> and as I said it's not warn->ban you will get guided by the cahnnel
[16:09] <orochi> ikonia: Understandably, yes. Aside from foul language and political debates though, how do you really know what's going to upset someone?
[16:10] <ikonia> you don't
[16:10] <ikonia> some topics are obvious though
[16:10] <ikonia> hence Take care
[16:10] <jussi01> @login
[16:10] <ikonia> hot political topics, sex, race etc etc
[16:10] <ikonia> hence why I keep suggesting use common sense
[16:13] <orochi> ikonia: I understand that yes, and I know what I certainly won't be saying. I suppose it's just an idle musing how strange it is that the Ubuntu community would be all about free software and absolutely AGAINST free speech. I suppose when you're on IRC you don't get that privilege what with the amount of people abusing it :>
[16:14] <ikonia> orochi: want to tell us your real name
[16:14] <ikonia> blind melon chit for example
[16:14] <orochi> ikonia: My real name is personal, this is my IRC name
[16:14] <ikonia> ok - so you're denying your "blind|melon|chit"
[16:15] <orochi> ikonia: ...I would assume so, being that I've never actually heard the name?
[16:15] <ikonia> if you could hang on while I reqest freenode staff look into this
[16:15] <orochi> ikonia: Sure.
[16:16] <stew> hi
[16:16] <ikonia> apologies if this takes a moment as it looks very much like you are a banned user avoiding a ban
[16:16] <ikonia> stew: hi
[16:16] <ikonia> just on queue
[16:16] <ikonia> stew: you have BT access ?
[16:16] <Pici> ikonia: that ban was removed...
[16:16] <stew> bt?
[16:16] <ikonia> oh really
[16:16] <Pici> by you
[16:17] <orochi> ikonia: No problem, take your time. I'm not avoiding any ban that I know of.
[16:17] <ikonia> so it was, my mistake/apologies
[16:17] <ikonia> orochi: no - your correct, the ban I'm taling about was removed
[16:17] <orochi> ikonia: I appreciate your apology but I'm receiving a rather rude reception in here and I don't know why. I'll just leave, thanks for the help...
[16:18] <ikonia> it is him
[16:18] <Pici> why?
[16:18] <ikonia> it's the same thing he did before
[16:18] <ikonia> look at the info in BT
[16:18] <ikonia> and he's trying to provoke stuff, exaclty as blind|melon|chit
[16:18] <Pici> I am, I don't see anything except for the I{
[16:19] <ikonia> stew: sorry - I'm on windows and my cut and paste to you messed up
[16:20] <stew> windows? egads!
[16:21] <ikonia> doing visio
[16:21] <stew> :)
[16:21] <stew> yeah, I'm familiar to blind|melon
[16:21] <stew> thanks I'll keep an eye on him
[16:23] <ikonia> stew: danke
[16:27] <Pici> stew: do you have bantracker access?
[16:27] <stew> Pici: no, I'm not familiar with it.
[16:27] <Pici> :o
[16:35] <ikonia> allow me
[16:35] <ikonia> stew: incoming pm
[16:40] <jussi01> stew: try @login here in channel please
[16:40] <Pici> stew: try @login here
[16:40] <stew> @login
[16:40] <Pici> @whoami
[16:40] <stew> @whoami
[16:40] <jussi01> right
[16:40] <ikonia> jussi01: is on the job
[16:40] <jussi01> stew: pm
[17:27] <orochi> Hello again. :> Sorry to have to intrude a second time, just another question on channel policy...I know telling someone to "google it" isn't an acceptable answer for a problem, is it acceptable to post a link to an article that answers the question that you found FROM google?
[17:31] <orochi> (Just so I don't post a google-cached link in the channel if it's not allowed)
[17:39] <orochi> ...right. Well, I'll just assume it's okay then, thanks!
[21:26] <genii> !isitdown
[21:26] <genii> Hm
[22:36] <Amaranth> ikonia: was it club?
[22:36] <ikonia> #archlinux-offtopic they decided to go and troll offtopic
[22:36] <ikonia> not standing for it
[22:36] <ikonia> bruening plays dumb
[22:36] <ikonia> #archlinux-offtopic <gulash> let's go to ubuntu-offtopic,  bruenig    [is in #ubuntu]
[22:36] <ikonia> #archlinux-offtopic <bruenig> ok    [is in #ubuntu]
[22:37] <Amaranth> nice
[22:38] <ikonia> !staff | bruening ban doding as indeedhmm in #ubuntu-offtopic
[22:40] <ikonia> done with #archlinux-offtopic idiots
[22:40] <ikonia> I want staff involved now please
[22:40] <Amaranth> forget how to do a nameban but they're using freenode webchat
[22:41] <Amaranth> about to just ban webchat
[22:41] <ikonia> done it
[22:41] <ikonia> !staff | assistance please with trolls from archlinux
[22:42] <vorian> eh?
[22:42] <ikonia> vorian: bruening from #archlinux-offtopic
[22:42] <ikonia> serial ban doding, plotting trolls etc
[22:42] <ikonia> enough is enough
[22:43] <Amaranth> heh, gulash saw vorian, did a whois, and panicked
[22:43] <ikonia> shock horror
[22:44] <ikonia> vorian: bruening has a long history of causing an issue and I now have him logged planning trolls of #ubuntu channels - it has to stop
[22:47] <ikonia> I'd like to remove / ban bruening from #ubuntu also. I'm not happy with the people in that channel planning trolls and have a history of trolling channels just lurking
[22:51] <Amaranth> ugh, I think /b/ is actually more intelligent than that channel
[22:51] <ikonia> clearly not
[22:52] <ikonia> it's regular behaviour, not a one off
[22:52] <ikonia> hence why I'm not accepting it
[22:52] <vorian> i didn't know people actually used archlinux anymore
[22:52] <ikonia> they don't
[22:52] <ikonia> it's a troll pit channel
[22:52] <ikonia> it's nothing to do with arch linux
[22:52] <Amaranth> vorian: half of #ubuntu-offtopic is archlinux users
[22:53] <vorian> it's very interesting
[22:53] <Amaranth> but #archlinux-offtopic is just a bunch of idiots
[22:53] <ikonia> it's a troll pit without any ops
[22:53] <ikonia> so they just sit there planning to disrupt channels
[22:53] <Amaranth> it's interesting like a car accident :P
[22:53] <vorian> Amaranth: pretty much :)
[22:53] <ikonia> hence they reason pretty much all the channel is also in #ubuntu
[22:54] <ikonia> so they can co-ordinate their stupid games
[22:55] <Amaranth> they've even got their own ubottu
[22:56] <ikonia> vorian: I'm seiours though, bruening has just ban dodged intentionally 3 times and abused freenode web chat to ban dodge too - I'd like to see this stop
[22:56] <ikonia> it's getting old now
[22:56] <ikonia> I've just had to ban freenode webchat from #ubuntu-offtopic
[22:56] <ikonia> "serious" I meant, no idea what seiours meant
[22:56] <vorian> why not just ban the ident?
[22:56] <ikonia> vorian: it was changing
[22:56] <ikonia> hence band doding multiple times
[22:56] <ikonia> hence I'm not happy
[22:57] <vorian> i can tell
[22:57] <ikonia> band doding
[22:57] <ikonia> ???
[22:57] <ikonia> vorian: not the first time, hence the staff call
[22:57] <Pricey> That ban won't work will it?
[22:57] <ikonia> which one
[22:57] <ikonia> the freenode web chat cloak ban worked well
[22:58] <ikonia> just removed the ban though
[22:58] <Pricey> It shouldn't.. :S
[22:58] <ikonia> seemed to work fine
[22:58] <ikonia> if it did or not I don't know, it seemed to
[23:00] <Pricey> ikonia: I didn't expect there to be hostnames in that form. That ban mask is not effective.
[23:01] <ikonia> Pricey: not quite sure how it didn't work as banning the freenode web chat cloak stopped them coming in ?
[23:02] <ikonia> why wouldn't *!*@gateway/web/freenode/session work ?
[23:02] <ikonia> (got to learn from mistakes)
[23:02] <Pricey> ikonia: gateway hostnames are usually randomised.
[23:03] <ikonia> Pricey: most of the freenode web chat I've seen has that cloak
[23:03] <ikonia> or hostname
[23:03] <Pricey> ikonia: gateway hostnames are usually randomised.
[23:03] <ikonia> what is chii the freenode bot ?
[23:04] <ikonia> Pricey: rww has just commented on it too in #ubuntu - some have that host, others the random host you're suggesting
[23:04] <ikonia> in -offtopic sorry
[23:05] <Pricey> ikonia: We're aware of it.
[23:05] <ikonia> ahhh ok
[23:05] <ikonia> aware of the host thing - or the bot question
[23:05] <Pricey> ikonia: /whois
[23:06] <Pricey> ikonia: How many users evaded using webchat
[23:06] <ikonia> only bruening
[23:06] <ikonia> always him
[23:06] <ikonia> the others left after bruening was blocked and didn't come back
[23:07] <ikonia> took me a minute to deal with him before had chance to deal with the others,
[23:07] <Pricey> How many evasions were there using webchat just then?
[23:07] <ikonia> using webchat just 1
[23:07] <ikonia> nick, ident, ip then web chat
[23:07] <Pricey> I don't think attempting to block webchat was at all warranted.
[23:07] <ikonia> it was a short term thing
[23:07] <Pricey> Still.
[23:08] <ikonia> well - I'll put it back in your court then as a staff member
[23:08] <ikonia> please deal with these persistant trolls on the network and the troll pit channel
[23:08] <Pricey> ubuntu irc councillor right now
[23:08] <ikonia> Pricey: no no - thats fine, I'll take the critisism
[23:08] <Pricey> (or the correct spelling)
[23:08] <ikonia> it was a jerk re-action to mutliple evasion
[23:08] <ikonia> 4 bans in about 60 seconds
[23:09] <ikonia> all for one user
[23:09] <ikonia> the fact that this guy is a known issue also suggested I should put a stop to it short and sharp, so yes, blocking the webchat host mask may have been harsh looking back
[23:10] <Pricey> ikonia: Have you engaged bruenig at all?
[23:10] <Pricey> (lately)
[23:10] <ikonia> many times
[23:10] <ikonia> not latley
[23:10] <ikonia> it's a pointless excerise
[23:11] <ikonia> it goes round playing dumb "I don't know what you mean, I didn't do anything"
[23:11] <ikonia> hence why I acted sharp on this
[23:11] <ikonia> and the rason I called to staff
[23:11] <ikonia> you have the log off archlinux offtopic and the BT records
[23:11] <Pricey> Staff have the same tools as you do.
[23:11] <ikonia> they planned to troll #ubuntu-offtopic and started the regular pattern, using CAPS, picking hot topics
[23:12] <ikonia> Pricey: staff carry more weight as this user does not respect any of the attempts to moderate him in #ubuntu channels
[23:12] <Pricey> I'm going to take another look into this. Will probably also drop him a PM.
[23:13] <ikonia> Pricey: take what action you feel nessasary, I disagree - I'm personally tired of seeing this troll pit play stupid games and brueing as one of the leader persistantly offend with it
[23:37] <ikonia> Blarghs appears to be another archlinux-offtopic person under a different nick
[23:39] <Pricey> ikonia: I'll deal with it
[23:39] <ikonia> thank you
[23:39] <ikonia> why must this continue
[23:53] <stew> ikonia: no, Blarghs is Magnus-swe
[23:53] <stew> not a troll, per-se, just very very odd
[23:54] <ikonia> ahhh him again
[23:54] <Pricey> He hasn't been that trollish in PM, but yes, very very very odd.
[23:54] <ikonia> I've got him under a few nicks in BT
[23:55] <ikonia> he thinks he can do what he wants as he has a gnu app written
[23:55] <stew> probably, he doesn't stay with one very long
[23:55] <stew> right
[23:55] <ikonia> gets klined a lot from memory
[23:55] <stew> gadmintools
[23:55] <stew> yes
[23:55] <stew> usually from dialup.ice.net, but sometimes from telia