[01:12] <chrisccoulson> hey stgraber - about bug 409621 - can you add a jaunty task on that?
[01:31] <stgraber> chrisccoulson: sure
[01:31] <chrisccoulson> thanks:)
[01:32] <stgraber> chrisccoulson: looks like you actually added one but it needed approval
[01:33] <chrisccoulson> stgraber - yeah, i can't add them without approval outside of universe ;)
[04:20] <spstarr> is there no reason Ubuntu/Kubuntu don't just return to Ubuntu with a ballot box in installer to choose KDE or GNOME? (much like the opensuse folks have)?
[04:20] <spstarr> why create more overhead for two separate distributions unless it comes down to the LiveCD size
[04:32] <Psi-Jack__> spstarr: That's pretty much what it boils down to.
[04:34] <wgrant> spstarr: CD size is a deal-breaker, and asking new users which desktop to use is crazy.
[04:34] <wgrant> spstarr: I believe even openSUSE recently decided to not ask.
[04:34] <Psi-Jack__> wgrant: No, no, they haven't. They're sticking to it and keeping it that way. ;)
[04:34] <wgrant> And there's not too much overhead having separate Kubuntu CDs.
[04:35] <wgrant> Psi-Jack__: Ah, you're right. I misread the article.
[04:36] <Psi-Jack__> Yeah, I know. heh.. I've been an avid opensuse user since 11.0, quite nice, but has KDE 4.2 issues still.
[05:06] <spstarr> Psi-Jack__: but but.. CDs are dead ;)
[05:11] <TheMuso> There are still parts of the world where DVDs are very expensive or hard to source...
[05:12] <wgrant> And some computers still don't have DVD drives.
[05:12] <wgrant> Computers on which Ubuntu runs fine.
[05:12] <spstarr> well, if the Ubuntu installer had an option: Advanced Users [radio button]  Beginning Users [radio button]
[05:12] <spstarr> it could be implied that KDE is the advanced option and GNOME is beginner
[05:13] <wgrant> Which is perhaps the incorrect implication.
[05:13] <spstarr> well, sure you can use GNOME for advanced stuff
[05:13] <wgrant> And that option still fails to take into account that CD space is very hard to come by.
[05:13] <spstarr> im assuming the LiveCD is stripped symbols/debug?
[05:13] <wgrant> Yes.
[05:13] <spstarr> ok
[05:14] <spstarr> so you really maxed space :)
[05:14] <wgrant> The time before releases is often spent trimming a hundred kilobytes off a few packages.
[05:14] <spstarr> unless you reduced some gnome apps on the LiveCD f
[05:14] <wgrant> Just to make things fit.
[05:14] <spstarr> i guess hmm
[05:15] <wgrant> KDE is never going to fit on the same CD.
[05:15] <wgrant> And there's little need.
[05:15] <spstarr> you could bandon LiveCD --> LiveDVD (not 4.3GB one)
[05:16] <slangasek> we have DVD live ISOs.  We manage to fill those too, separately for ubuntu and kubuntu, by adding in all the things that had to be cut for a DVD
[05:17] <slangasek> for a CD, I mean
[05:17] <slangasek> translations, for instance
[05:17] <spstarr> that does add a lot of MB :)
[05:18] <wgrant> I also don't imagine that DX would like that extra option added to the installer.
[05:18] <spstarr> so is there a assumption that ubuntu/kubuntu work together though?
[05:18] <wgrant> spstarr: What do you mean?
[05:18] <spstarr> coordinating features etc
[05:19] <spstarr> where possible
[05:20] <wgrant> To an extent. Remember that they live together in the same repository, so non-GNOME-specific Ubuntu changes will be in Kubuntu too.
[05:21] <RAOF> To a certain extent; I am aware that kubuntu guys have been unhappy when some infrastructure gets upgraded before the KDE parts have been updated to work with it.
[05:21] <spstarr> yes, but i meant Canonical having enough KDE developers for kubuntu to complement what Ubuntu gives for GNOME
[05:21] <spstarr> RAOF: that's where im going...
[05:21] <maco> RAOF: like network manager? ;)
[05:21] <spstarr> we have NM applet in KDE coming along
[05:21]  * spstarr is part of the Plasma team
[05:21] <wgrant> And recently Kubuntu developers have rejected the DX team's changes to Ubuntu.
[05:22] <maco> nm's backend was upgraded without waiting for the plasma network manager to be ready
[05:22] <wgrant> eg. notify-osd, indicator-applet
[05:22] <maco> there is an indicator applet in kubuntu
[05:22] <spstarr> well, KDE 4.4 solves notification/indication (or is suppose to)
[05:22] <maco> konversation was patched to use it
[05:22] <spstarr> we're working with the gnome folks on that
[05:22] <wgrant> maco: Ah, I didn't realise they ended up giving in.
[05:22] <maco> wgrant: its only for the gnome apps to talk to while in kde though :P
[05:23] <spstarr> see the following thread on that:
[05:23] <maco> wgrant: a konversation patch does exist that they were using for testing though
[05:23] <wgrant> maco: That's what I thought, but then you mentioned Konversation...
[05:23] <wgrant> Ah.
[05:23] <maco> wgrant: pending upstream's acceptance of the konversation patch, itll be in the released version
[05:24] <spstarr> lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg basically
[05:24] <spstarr> maco: there's no need for any of that, KDE/GNOME both are working on the updated notification spec
[05:24] <maco> one of the kubuntu devs asked what the indicator applet is, and i told them its basically teh DX team trying to copy the little "i" in the kde systray
[05:25] <spstarr> also systray spec
[05:26] <spstarr> so afaik, why would konversation need this patch?
[05:26] <maco> because the new spec's not done yet?
[05:26] <spstarr> im not sure, I have not heard any updates on it
[05:26] <TheMuso> I see a lot of these sort of changes that are being done in Ubuntu as things that are needed now, but upstream aren't ready to formalize yet, although things are getting close.
[05:27] <spstarr> yes
[05:27] <spstarr> With FDO now reorganizing finally, we should see more colaboration
[05:27] <maco> gnome has no way to do the "i" thing thats in kde, so the indicator applet exists.  gnome apps cant talk to the little "i" thing (doh!) so one has to exist on kde even though its already got that feature native
[05:28] <spstarr> collaboration
[05:28] <maco> hopefully
[05:28] <maco> cuz its really annoying having things that appear desktop-wide be inconsistent just because 1 app is from gnome
[05:28] <spstarr> yes
[05:29] <spstarr> Hopefully, GCDS spawns more collaborated conferences too
[05:29] <spstarr> even though GNOME/KDE will never be unified, our backends can get closer
[05:29] <spstarr> common things like Kwallet/gnome keychain etc
[05:30] <maco> akonadi
[05:30] <maco> though it ate my address book last month :(
[05:30] <spstarr> I hope akonadi adds a sqlite backend so i dont need mysql ;p
[05:30] <spstarr> maco: is gnome using akonadi or considering it?
[05:31] <maco> there's talk of making evolution able to
[05:31] <maco> would be nice for future desktop-switchers
[05:31] <maco> as it is, much of my data is locked up in evolution and wont import correctly into kontact
[05:32] <spstarr> maco: i dont see it as switchers but as in GNOME/KDE getting Exchange support etc
[05:32]  * spstarr bites into the last grape and savours it
[05:34] <spstarr> FLOSS is about choice, but giving each of our communities more shared functionality is a win for everyone
[05:34] <spstarr> :)
[05:40] <spstarr> i was just more curious on some other things :)
[05:42]  * spstarr is seriously considering moving back to Buntu but im stuck until the radeon changes in Fedora filter to upstream fully i have Kubuntu/Ubuntu Karmic in a VirtualBox
[05:44] <spstarr> I'm assuming 'ubuntu-desktop' meta package is enough to get me full GNOME within Kubuntu?
[05:44] <spstarr> yep :)
[05:44] <spstarr> 469 :)
[05:44] <spstarr> almost 1GB will be needed
[05:45] <spstarr> i need to keep track of GNOME as a KDE developer ;)
[06:10]  * spstarr looks a GNOME loading from Kubuntu
[06:11] <spstarr> Might I ask how will GNOME 3.0 impact Ubuntu's mission of allowing developed nations access to Open Source when they are going to require (3D)/Composite?
[06:13] <Psi-Jack__> Interesting question I might add. ;)
[06:13] <spstarr> indeed
[06:13] <spstarr> this conflicts with Ubuntu's goals
[06:13] <spstarr> now i dont know how old computers are being used in developed nations
[06:13] <spstarr> so I wouldn't know if this would impact enough or not
[06:14] <Psi-Jack__> Well, I can tell you, I have a lot of old systems being used at home here as a server farm. ;)
[06:16] <spstarr> with X used?
[06:22]  * spstarr clicks the examination mark icon and boggles.. what actually crashed to cause a problem(?!)
[06:28] <spstarr> hmm
[06:28] <spstarr> Sorry, the program "Xorg" closed unexpectedly
[06:28] <spstarr> ORLY? im still in X :)
[06:29]  * spstarr boggles
[06:30] <Psi-Jack__> spstarr: Oh no. Not with X. I use X only on..... 1 system I think presently? My workstation, and I use KDE on it. ;)
[06:30] <spstarr> :)
[06:31] <spstarr> i wonder if Buntu/Debian will pick up the idea if deltarpms -> deltadebs
[06:31] <spstarr> i dont know if there's talk but this would serious help save bandwidth
[06:31] <spstarr> if its possible with deb
[06:32] <TheMuso> spstarr: There is work going into something similar, don't know where its up to though.
[06:33] <spstarr> oh very nice
[06:35] <spstarr> very nice bug reporting system
[06:35] <spstarr> i triggered bug #405667
[06:36] <spstarr> i like how it matches summary with the error summary in launchpad eliminating some duplication
[06:40] <spstarr> oh
[06:40] <spstarr> 2005 was my Ubuntu
[06:40] <spstarr> Bragging rights Member since: 2005-09-29
[06:40] <spstarr> :)
[06:43] <spstarr> so i came into the game a year or so late :P
[08:05] <melwyn> hi
[08:53] <andresmujica> how can i test a symptom based apport, the ui part i mean ?
[11:46] <debfx> could someone please unsubscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors from bug #310769 (package has been moved to universe)
[12:22] <Yoe> ogra: why do you guys start nbd-client without -persist, only to switch to -persist later? (re: your comment in LP#417506)
[12:23] <Yoe> ogra: isn't it better to just start with -persist to begin with?
[14:19] <mok0> Is it possible to pin a certain version of a package, so it's NOT sync'ed from unstable?
[14:24] <tgpraveen1> hyperair: ping
[14:24] <tgpraveen1> is there a reason why there is not up to date banshee ppa for jaunty? even banshee unstable ppa is 2.5 months out of date
[14:27] <StevenK> mok0: At this point, syncing is manual anyway?
[14:30] <hyperair> tgpraveen1: is that so?
[14:30] <hyperair> what's the latest version of banshee?
[14:30] <tgpraveen1> hyperair: well i dont think they released a new version
[14:31] <hyperair> tgpraveen1: well then, do you have your answer?
[14:31] <tgpraveen1> i think they are going to diretly release 1.6 on aug 31
[14:31] <tgpraveen1> or something
[14:31] <hyperair> yes
[14:31] <tgpraveen1> but if it's the unstable ppa
[14:31] <tgpraveen1> then shouldnt it be updated to
[14:31] <hyperair> it's the *unstable* ppa, but not hte *daily* ppa
[14:31] <mok0> StevenK: yes, I would like to pin the version for karmic+1
[14:31] <tgpraveen1> so that it includes the new bug fixes etc
[14:31] <hyperair> unfortunately not. =\
[14:32] <tgpraveen1> hyperair: ok.i am on jaunty is there any ppa to get the latest or nearly latest
[14:32] <hyperair> that is the latest
[14:32] <tgpraveen1> ver ie a weekly or monthly or daily
[14:32] <hyperair> there's a daily
[14:32] <hyperair> launchpad.net/~banshee-team/+archive/banshee-daily
[14:32] <tgpraveen1> hyperair: its for karmic only iirc
[14:32] <hyperair> yes
[14:32] <hyperair> i haven't gotten round to bringing jaunty support, sorry
[14:33] <tgpraveen1> so u know of any other ppa for that?
[14:33] <tgpraveen1> or do u plan to bring jaunty support for daily if it aint to difficult
[14:33] <tgpraveen1> ?
[14:33] <hyperair> yes, i plan to bring jaunty support
[14:34] <hyperair> when i have time
[14:34] <tgpraveen1> k. thx
[14:34] <tgpraveen1> any approx time frame 1 week? 1 month? to give rough idea
[14:36] <hyperair> tgpraveen1: i can't say. i've got a very nice and long todo list which will take some time to trim down =(
[14:37] <hyperair> tgpraveen1: at least, not this week, and not next week either.
[14:37] <tgpraveen1> ok. thx for ur help hyperair
[14:37] <hyperair> np
[14:42] <thedancingdeer> bryce: i want to run svgalib programs(c programs with vga libraries) without root permissions! how do i do that!
[14:43] <hyperair> since when does svgalib require root permissions?
[14:46] <thedancingdeer> hyperair: yes they do! umm, donno since when but it gives an error :"svgalib: Cannot get I/O permissions."
[14:47] <hyperair> try strace the program and see what it's trying to access =\
[14:48] <thedancingdeer> hyperair: didn't get you! tracing what try program is tryin 2 access?
[14:49] <hyperair> hmm wait
[14:49] <hyperair> it seems that svga requires root access after all, eh
[14:49] <thedancingdeer> hyperair: well, its the tty, the terminal, when i do sudo ./a.out goes to the tty!
[14:49] <hyperair> http://www.svgalib.org/svgalib.user.faq.html
[14:49] <thedancingdeer> hyperair: yeah! exactly! so i dont want this!
[14:50] <hyperair> then don't use svgalib apps
[14:51] <thedancingdeer> well, i dont have this option! the thing is, i'm using this as a replacement for graphics.h to run simple c programs for students! so i dont want them to have have root permissions and mess with the system!
[14:52] <thedancingdeer> hyperair: i thought there could be some way to give the user permissions to access svgalib or whatever!
[14:52] <hyperair> looks like not
[14:58] <mandrew> hello anyone here on the dev team of ubuntu 9.10?
[15:03] <mandrew> im looking for anyone thats on the dev team of 9.10
[17:31] <penguin42> Does anyone know of docs that describe the hibernate process and how everything is supposed to interact with it?
[17:32]  * penguin42 has a bug where screenlock doesn't kick in on hibernate but also I'm curious if there is a way to hook other things (e.g. unmount and lock a luks disc) on hibernate
[17:40] <fbond> Hi.  What document describes the official policy for what belongs in hardy, hardy-updates, hardy-security?  If I don't enable hardy-updates or hardy-security, do I get exactly what was originally released in 8.04?
[17:58] <Amaranth> fbond: yes, without hardy-updates, hardy-security, hardy-backports, etc you end up with exactly what was in the original 8.04 release
[17:59] <geser> fbond: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for what goes in -updates and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for what does in -security
[18:00] <kees> fbond: and you absolutely do not want to do that -- Hardy (as released) contains a critical bug in the openssl library.
[18:01] <kees> fbond: you want -security at the very least
[18:02] <fbond> kees: Thanks, just trying to understand the policy.  I'm building a product on top of Ubuntu and need to have a release policy that sits on top of Ubuntu's and makes sense.
[18:03] <fbond> Is there any way to construct a sources.list that will give me a system that contains exactly 8.04.1 or 8.04.2, etc.?
[18:04] <fbond> How can I deteremine which package versions are designated for a given point release?
[18:05] <kees> fbond: dunno about that.  products on top of Ubuntu should be release + -security + -updates :)
[18:06] <fbond> kees: Right, but I need some kind of package version control so I can say two different release builds are "the same" i.e. contain the same package versions.
[18:07] <fbond> Pulling from the live archives doesn't give me that, so I guess I need to create frozen archive mirrors that represent a particular release.
[18:09] <fbond> kees: Do you agree that freezing the archive is the only way to say a particular install is precisely 8.04.2 (e.g.)?
[18:12] <fbond> (In other words, there are only two things I can get from the archives directly using just sources.list: precisely 8.04 and 8.04+latest.)
[18:12] <fbond> (Ignoring the difference between -security and -updates.)
[18:27] <fbond> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PointReleaseProcess indicates that an archive snapshot is made for point releases.  Is this snapshot publicly accessible somewhere?
[18:27] <kees> fbond: slangasek may be able to answer that, though he may not be responsive until tomorrow.
[18:28] <fbond> kees: Okay, thanks.  I'll ping him.
[18:29] <fbond> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PointReleaseProcess indicates that an archive snapshot is made for point releases.  Is this snapshot publicly accessible somewhere?
[21:23] <andresmujica> how can i put some predefined text in the Further Information box  with apport?
[22:27] <Primefalcon> quick question also for anyone out there, I do some basic C++ along with other langauges and am wondering what would be a good way to start participating in helping Ubuntu what avenue par say?
[22:27] <Mez> hmm... ok, this is weird.
[22:27] <Mez> Someone's hijacked a package before it's even gotten through new
[22:57] <Laney> Is one of them the ITPer?