[09:52] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: ping
[12:45]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[14:10] <SiDi> tedg, hello
[14:10] <tedg> SiDi: Howdy
[14:11] <SiDi> Fine, you ?
[14:12] <SiDi> tedg, Do you know if there is still someone planning to separate libindicate and indicator-applet ? :D
[14:12] <tedg> SiDi: Doing well.  It's done :)
[14:12] <SiDi> Aaaaaw
[14:13] <SiDi> Where can i catch the lib please ? :)
[14:13] <SiDi> (lp:libindicate, found it !)
[14:13] <SiDi> tedg, many thanks for having done it :]
[14:14] <DBO> hey MacSlow, sorry about the empty diff
[14:14] <DBO> my push failed
[14:14] <DBO> fixed now :)
[14:14] <MacSlow> DBO, np
[14:15] <tedg> SiDi: No problem.
[14:16] <tedg> SiDi: There should be new split source packages hitting Karmic... I think they hit yesterday.
[14:16] <tedg> kenvandine: ^^ The separate libindicate source package is in now, right?
[14:17] <SiDi> tedg, great !
[14:17] <SiDi> now i have to make sure indicator-applet-xfce builds and find someone to package it :P
[14:18] <kenvandine> tedg, yes
[14:18] <SiDi> !info libindicate karmic
[14:18] <ubot4> SiDi: Package libindicate does not exist in karmic
[14:18] <SiDi> !info libindicate1 karmic
[14:18] <ubot4> SiDi: libindicate1 (source: indicator-applet): GNOME panel indicator applet - shared library. In component main, is optional. Version 0.1.6-0ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 21 kB, installed size 108 kB
[14:18] <kenvandine> libindicate2 is the binary
[14:19] <SiDi> ah
[14:19] <kenvandine> libindicate | 0.2.0~bzr325-0ubuntu1 |        karmic | source
[14:19] <SiDi>  libindicate2 (source: indicator-applet) from ubot4 
[14:20] <SiDi> brb, rebooting the router
[14:20] <mac_v> tedg: hi... the i-a-sus , is showing icon-missing as the icon? is that a known bug?
[14:21] <tedg> mac_v: Yes.  It's patched upstream :)
[14:22] <mac_v> hmm... nice thanx.
[14:32] <DanRabbit1> mac_v: pong
[14:33] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: lol... got up early ? ;) just a sec
[14:33] <DanRabbit1> Yea, I have school in an hour :(
[14:35] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/1.svg , http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/2.svg   which do you like better?
[14:35] <DanRabbit1> Thinner stroke :D
[14:36] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: yeah , me too , just confirming how you wanted it ;)
[14:36] <DanRabbit1> thanks 
[14:36] <mac_v>  :)
[14:47] <SiDi`Laptop> !info libpango1.0-0 karmic
[14:47] <ubot4> SiDi`Laptop: libpango1.0-0 (source: pango1.0): Layout and rendering of internationalized text. In component main, is optional. Version 1.25.3-0ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 312 kB, installed size 924 kB
[15:31] <MacSlow> DBO, eeejay would be the best to review the atk-patches... I don't know ATK at all and can only look for "coding-style" stuff or general things like translatable strings.
[15:31] <DBO> yeah translatable strings is what I always forget
[15:31] <DBO> every
[15:31] <DBO> single
[15:31] <DBO> time
[15:32] <DBO> but yeah, how do we get an eeejay involved?
[15:32] <MacSlow> I've been looking for him on IRC, but he does not seem to be online
[15:50] <DBO> MacSlow, translatable string issue is fixed =)
[15:50] <DBO> sorry for the delay, was working on maximus
[15:51] <DBO> perhaps we should request a direct review from eeejay
[15:58] <SiDi> Damn pkg-config
[15:59] <SiDi> tedg, kenvandine if i wanted to check for the presence of libindicate in autotools, any idea what package name i should give to pkg-config ? :S
[15:59] <tedg> SiDi: indicate
[15:59] <tedg> SiDi: Usually it's the file name in /usr/lib/pkgconfig -- typically I'll just do an "ls" there to look for things.
[16:02] <SiDi> thanks tedg :D
[17:18] <MacSlow> DBO, would be cool, but does LP's merge-proposal interface/UI allow that? I don't know.
[17:57] <mac_v> mpt: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/new1.png , if you like the color i can complete the whole animation
[17:59] <mpt> mac_v, nice!
[17:59] <mpt> mac_v, I think you might find that if you animate it, it's like spinning an egg, because it's a bit oval
[18:00] <mpt> so you'd need to trim a bit off the arrow tails to make it circular, I guess
[18:00] <mac_v> mpt: nope the arrow head is causing the illusion , I'v taken care of the circle ;)
[18:03] <mac_v> mpt: oh! oops! i gave the link to the wrong image > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/new.png
[18:04] <mpt> ah, much better
[18:04] <mac_v> mpt: hehe , you are right about the first one though ;) 
[18:06] <mpt> mac_v, so I'm happy to go through as many iterations of this as you like until you get bored. ;-) It probably should be a bit less yellow
[18:07] <mpt> If you'd rather leave it as it is, please attach it to a software-store bug report
[18:07] <mac_v> mpt: yeah, the color was my concern too , i'll try a different shade
[18:07] <mac_v> mpt: bug report or wiki?
[18:08] <mpt> mac_v, ah, wiki works too
[18:53] <djsiegel> mrooney|w mac_v, next week is Ubuntu Developer Week
[18:53] <djsiegel> will you be around?
[18:53] <mrooney|w> yes I think so
[18:53] <mac_v> yup
[18:53] <djsiegel> Ok, I have the week off and may be out of reach, but there's a paper cutting session thursday
[18:53] <mac_v> djsiegel: BTW wat time is it?
[18:54] <djsiegel> I may try to get it moved to weds
[18:54] <djsiegel> let me grab the page 1 sec
[18:54] <djsiegel> MDC2: ping ^
[18:54] <MDC2> djsiegel, pong!
[18:54] <djsiegel> mrooney|w mac_v MDC2 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek
[18:55] <djsiegel> so, I will be in the session for paper cutting there, would be great if you guys could attend
[18:55] <mrooney|w> ah ok
[18:55] <djsiegel> the focus of the week is development in ubuntu, and I've asked dholbach to make the remaining 60 paper cuts that need some attention the focus
[18:56] <djsiegel> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscri
[18:56] <djsiegel> eld.milestone%3Alist=13597&field.milestone%3Alist=13644&field.milestone%3Alist=13598&field.milestone%3Alist=13629&field.milestone%3Alist=13630&field.milestone%3Alist=13631&field.milestone%3Alist=13640&field.milestone%3Alist=13641&field.milestone%3Alist=13642&field.milestone%3Alist=13643&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_cve.used=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY
[18:56] <djsiegel> those (nice url, huh?)
[18:56] <mac_v> djsiegel: the url got cut ;p
[18:56] <djsiegel> ok 1 sec
[18:57] <djsiegel> http://tinyurl.com/mbpmob
[18:57] <djsiegel> that's all milestoned paper cuts that aren't yet fixed
[18:57] <djsiegel> ah, I may cut off In Progress
[18:58] <djsiegel> http://tinyurl.com/nml6jo
[18:58] <djsiegel> so, in all sessions that deal with fixing bugs, /these/ should be the samples/examples that devs are encouraged to focus on
[18:58] <djsiegel> I think there were 400 people at the last UDW
[18:59] <djsiegel> so, 400 / 60 = almost 7 devs per paper cut remaining
[18:59] <MDC2> djsiegel, i'll be working next week but i can probably hang around and poke some code from time to time.. but where is it? ;-) #??
[18:59] <djsiegel> #ubuntu-classroom
[19:00] <djsiegel> so there will be a lot of activity, and we will need to be there to support it
[19:00] <djsiegel> but like I said, I will be unavailable for most of the week so more fall son you guys if you're avilable
[19:00] <djsiegel> they are normal bugs, so our participation is not required
[19:00] <djsiegel> but it would be good for some of us to be available
[19:01] <djsiegel> Man, I am working in a public library, and this family with 8 children, all under 6 years old, is letting them run around screaming like it's a playground
[19:02] <djsiegel> (my in-ear noise blocking headphones are out of commission due to a faulty wire)
[19:04] <DBO> djsiegel, any fun papercuts up my ally you know of offhand?
[19:04] <DBO> I'd like to be one of the 100
[19:04] <djsiegel> DBO, let me see
[19:05] <djsiegel> I have been using Safari 4 for a week, and its "awesome bar" is really cruddy
[19:05] <djsiegel> it doesn't search your history well
[19:06] <DBO> yeah its more of an "okay bar"
[19:06] <DBO> also, did you see my first major code contribution landed in the public yesterday?
[19:06] <MDC2> djsiegel, safari - aren't you running linux? ;-)
[19:06] <DBO> the new icons in the window pickers applet =)
[19:07] <djsiegel> DBO: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/8949
[19:07] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 8949 in hundredpapercuts "Opening a deleted 'recent document' results in a new file." [Undecided,Confirmed] 
[19:07] <DBO> consider it done djsiegel ;)
[19:07] <djsiegel> MDC2: usually, but I switched to my MBP to get better adobe air performance and increased screen space to work on some mockups
[19:07] <djsiegel> DBO: there is a patch there
[19:07] <djsiegel> may be a good starting place
[19:07] <DBO> awesome
[19:08] <djsiegel> when someone shows the recent documents menu, if a recent document is a local file that no longer exists, it should not show up in the menu
[19:08] <djsiegel> I think that's a reasonable fix/
[19:08] <djsiegel> maybe the recent documents API should not tell you about deleted files, but that's a deeper change
[19:08] <djsiegel> but if you have a better solution, DBO, by all means
[19:09] <DBO> i think this is better handled at the level of the consumer of the recent documents api
[19:10] <djsiegel> but why should the API tell you about recent files that no longer exist?
[19:10] <djsiegel> if the user deleted the file, what's the point of telling them about it any longer?
[19:10] <DBO> because drives can be disconnected
[19:10] <DBO> local drives even
[19:10] <DBO> do it all the time
[19:10] <djsiegel> but you'd still want to see the file?
[19:11] <DBO> yes, and if its in a path thats in my /etc/mtab, even offer to try to mount when I attempt to access it
[19:11] <mac_v> DBO: what sort of bugs are you interested in? i could find you some :)
[19:11] <djsiegel> who is Ted M Lin/
[19:11] <djsiegel> what is is nick, rather
[19:12] <djsiegel> we need to find him and ask him to follow up on his paper cuts!
[19:12] <DBO> mac_v, I love heavy interface lifting, make me do some cairo. Of course those are rarely paper cuts, so I also would do anything that lets me engineer a solution
[19:12] <djsiegel> he's done at least 5 patches
[19:12] <DBO> I like a challenge :)
[19:12] <djsiegel> so, we have https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/385850
[19:12] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 385850 in hundredpapercuts "Ship fewer screensavers by default" [Low,Confirmed] 
[19:12] <djsiegel> it's ready in a branch
[19:13] <djsiegel> do we need to subscribe someone to get this merged?
[19:13] <djsiegel> these are things that should be taken care of next week
[19:13] <djsiegel> a good number of paper cuts have branches with fixes
[19:13] <djsiegel> and they need to be sponsored and merged
[19:14] <mac_v> hmm... let me see :)
[19:17] <mac_v> DBO: Bug #416624 , a little interface clean up , not too heavy ;)
[19:17] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 416624 in hundredpapercuts "Preferred Applications is a little confusing." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416624
[19:18] <DBO> oooo I wanna do that one
[19:18] <djsiegel> that is not a paper cut
[19:19] <mac_v> djsiegel: you were the one who made DanRabbit1  file it ;)
[19:20] <djsiegel> no, it's a good bug
[19:20] <djsiegel> but, I am sure DBO could do it in a day
[19:20] <djsiegel> DBO, let me know if you tackle it and we can count it
[19:20] <mac_v>  good bug, but not a (good) paper cut ? ;p
[19:20] <djsiegel> we can schedule it in a round and remove another
[19:20] <DBO> djsiegel, roger, girlfriend is in chicago tonight, so I might just sit down and do some binge coding
[19:21] <djsiegel> nice
[19:21] <djsiegel> DanRabbit1 filed another good one, let me find
[19:21] <mac_v> DBO: then i'll find you some more ;p
[19:21] <djsiegel> DBO, will you apply for membership in papercutters so you can change statuses and milestones?
[19:21] <djsiegel> I will approve you
[19:21] <DBO> sure
[19:22] <DBO> done
[19:27] <MDC2> about bug 416624, when entering a custom command; could there be a legend describing what "%s" is?
[19:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 416624 in hundredpapercuts "Preferred Applications is a little confusing." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416624
[19:29] <DBO> MDC2, it should give an example
[19:29] <DBO> like if you type foo --file=%s
[19:29] <DBO> it would say "e.g. : foo --file=bar.txt"
[19:30] <MDC2> is %s the only one availble?
[19:30] <DBO> i dont think so
[19:30] <DBO> maybe?
[19:31] <MDC2> so.. it might be good to show what special commands are available?
[19:31] <DBO> maybe
[19:34] <MDC2> and i think that %s here refers to an url...
[19:34] <DBO> erm yes it would in this case
[19:35] <MDC2> see - if not even I know what %s is.. how will the "user" know ;-)
[19:36] <DBO> neural lace?
[19:37] <djsiegel> MDC2: yes, that's one of the drivers behind a separate dialog
[19:37] <djsiegel> there's room for info about those keys
[19:37] <djsiegel> but for the paper cut, it's not necessary to add new information like that
[19:37] <djsiegel> I wish we had OS X style sheets
[19:37] <djsiegel> instead of using a modal dialog for this
[19:38] <DBO> sheets are more or less well positioned modal dialogs
[19:38] <djsiegel> MDC2: those symbols are explained in the docs for XDG .desktop files spec I believe
[19:38] <djsiegel> DBO, right, but they are attached to the parent window have have no decoration
[19:38] <DBO> right, well positioned windows
[19:38] <DBO> modal windows with flare!
[19:38] <djsiegel> MDC2 and in the docs for g_desktop_file_open or something
[19:39] <DBO> hell I bet I could write a 100 line app to turn all modal windows into OS X style sheets
[19:39] <djsiegel> DBO do it, would be a sweet patch to gtk
[19:39] <MDC2> djsiegel, oh.. it surly should be visible in the gui :-)
[19:39] <DBO> you dont need to patch GTK
[19:39] <djsiegel> you don;t need to
[19:39] <djsiegel> but it would be nice to make it an explicit new dialog class
[19:39] <MDC2> dbo, if we do it - it should be in gtk
[19:40] <MDC2> i heard we had sheets in gtk / cocoa (?) now..
[19:40] <djsiegel> I mean, you could try sheetifying modal dialogs w/ parent windows
[19:40] <djsiegel> but that could get funky
[19:40] <djsiegel> those modal dialogs could have modal dialogs :)
[19:40] <djsiegel> or open other things
[19:41] <DBO> dont sheetify a modal dialog to a modal dialog
[19:41] <djsiegel> DBO here's a bug in the same vein as the recent docs: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/19069
[19:41] <DBO> or a model dialog above a certain size
[19:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 19069 in hundredpapercuts "Nautilus browser's pathbar displays non-existent folders" [Low,Confirmed] 
[19:41] <djsiegel> has a patch, upstream is on it
[19:41] <djsiegel> just fyi
[19:41] <djsiegel> wouldn't hurt to ping cosimo
[19:41] <DBO> what am I supposed to do in that kind of case
[19:41] <DBO> Im a coder, not a packager
[19:42] <djsiegel> just say "hey cosimo, you have the patch you said you were polishing?"
[19:42] <djsiegel> he might say "oh yeah, forgot, let me merge"
[19:42] <djsiegel> or "no, here's what I've got, can you finish and ping me back and I will merge?"
[19:42] <djsiegel> that's basically what I do on these when they have a patch and stop moving
[19:42] <djsiegel> "hey, upstream, umm, about that patch you reviewed and said looked good to merge..."
[19:43] <djsiegel> "think we can merge it before 2010?"
[19:43] <DBO> patching gtk to have a sheet modal window would take 100 lines of code including boiler plate code me thinks :)
[19:43] <djsiegel> Like 2-line diff against gnome-panel hanging around bugzilla since 2002(?)
[19:43] <mac_v> djsiegel: you need to send mail upstream about > Bug #388949 , 
[19:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 388949 in hundredpapercuts "'Clean Up by Name' -> 'Arrange by Name'" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388949
[19:43] <djsiegel> that solves ordering problems when changing resolution
[19:43] <djsiegel> we had 44 dupes of that bug in LP
[19:43] <mac_v> i mena the nautilus mailing list 
[19:43] <MDC2> about the pathbar patch; i think it needs some polish first..
[19:43] <djsiegel> turns out the 7 year old patch worked like a charm
[19:44] <MDC2> its got #if 0 in it....
[19:44] <djsiegel> mac_v, yeah
[19:45] <DBO> well at least I no longer wonder what you do with your day djsiegel :P
[19:46] <djsiegel> ha
[19:46] <djsiegel> I have been doing other things
[19:46] <djsiegel> haven't one PPCs in a good week
[19:46] <djsiegel> I think there's a chance we will get a good 75 of these done
[19:47] <djsiegel> I think 45 are done now
[19:47] <DBO> im a bit surprised at how much trouble it is to get working code upstream
[19:47] <djsiegel> hopefully the 400 devs here for UDW will descend like angels next week
[19:47] <DBO> UDW is a physical event?
[19:47] <djsiegel> DBO, yeah...
[19:47] <djsiegel> not many people are home, it seems
[19:48] <djsiegel> you knock on the door with a fruit basket...
[19:48] <djsiegel> and nobody opens
[19:48] <DBO> well if Verizon Wireless and TV taught me anything it's this
[19:48] <DBO> you dont get them to open the door unless you have Catherine Zeta Jones do the knocking
[19:50] <djsiegel__> DBO: you might be on to something there
[19:50] <DBO> C Zeta Jones is a win
[19:50] <djsiegel__> DBO: are you up for some major invasive plastic surgery?
[19:51] <DBO> only if I get a weekend to fondle my new C Zeta Jones body
[19:52] <DBO> it would be nice of XDG specified a Soft Window Strut
[19:52] <DBO> similar to our current struts
[19:52] <DBO> but not enforced as dramatically
[19:52] <DBO> perfect for things like autohide panels
[19:52] <DBO> or sidebars
[19:53] <mac_v> DBO: wanna add support for thunderbird and messaging menu? ;)
[19:53] <DBO> the what?
[19:53] <mac_v> indicator applet
[19:53] <DBO> messaging menu?
[19:53] <DBO> i dont have karmic
[19:54] <mac_v> DBO: i thought it behaves the same in Jaunty ... does it show the icon always? or virtual box ;p
[19:55] <DBO> it behaves the same but its 10 times more worthless
[19:55] <DBO> since nothing uses it
[19:55] <DBO> I dont even really understand what its there for
[19:55] <DBO> all I know is I can click on it, and then sometimes it will have a buddy's screen name listed, and if I click on that the window starts blinking in my task list
[19:55] <mac_v> lol , its worthless here too , awaiting some development , its supposed to be a launcher + indicator
[19:56] <DBO> or more usually, I click it and nothing happens because the window was already blinking
[19:57] <DBO> all I know is SOMEBODY forgot to run wnck_set_client_type (WNCK_CLIENT_TYPE_PAGER)
[19:57] <DBO> then it would actually be useful...
[19:57] <DBO> letting me switch desktops and so on...
[19:58] <mac_v> hm.. in karmic it switches windows and desktops when the app is selected. or maybe i set it as such 
[20:01] <DBO> oh then they fixed it :P
[20:01] <mac_v> DBO: are you familiar with gvfs and nautilus code?
[20:02] <DBO> familiar no, able to dive in and understand yes
[20:02] <DBO> well I am familiar with coding gvfs stuff
[20:02] <mac_v> Bug #301035 , this bug needs a bit of tweek in both
[20:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 301035 in hundredpapercuts "Place an Ubuntu icon/emblem on the system partition" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301035
[20:02] <mac_v> tweak*
[20:04] <mac_v> see my comment #20 , icons stuff can be done but the code needs to be in place
[20:05] <DBO> looking
[20:08] <DBO> so really you want a patch to gvfs to detect if a filesystem (or rather any file) resides on a particular type of filesystem...
[20:08] <DBO> mm I am thinking we dont even need to patch gvfs to get that info
[20:09] <DBO> maybe not with gvfs however
[20:09] <DBO> I dont know, we'll see
[20:10] <mac_v> DBO: yeah , basically it already know the filesystem type, windows are usually ntfs/fat , so assign the window icon, apple assign apple icon , for the filesystem , we assign the Ubuntu icon, just the signla need to be sent
[20:10] <mac_v> knows*
[20:11] <DBO> yep
[20:12] <DBO> yeah gio is still pretty rapidly changing
[20:12] <DBO> shouldn't be too hard to get an upstream change on this one
[20:13] <djsiegel> mac_v can you show me a screenshot of the new behavior for this: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/407116 ?
[20:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 407116 in hundredpapercuts "The thumbnail of an image should not be bigger than the image itself" [Low,Fix released] 
[20:13] <djsiegel> if it's a real improvement, I will milestone it
[20:14] <djsiegel> otherwise, I want to mark-affects nautilus and invalidate the paper cut
[20:19] <mac_v> djsiegel: http://imagebin.ca/view/AM7wvFi.html , notice the 48px and the 128px
[20:20] <djsiegel> eww, wish those were at least centered
[20:21] <djsiegel> that just looks terrible still!
[20:21] <mac_v> djsiegel: centered? i think they are
[20:21] <djsiegel> vertically ?
[20:21] <mac_v> yeah
[20:21] <djsiegel> there's no grid there
[20:21] <mac_v> oh grid , no grid
[20:22] <djsiegel> hmmm
[20:22] <djsiegel> is that the default layout behavior in karmic?
[20:22] <mac_v> djsiegel: its anything larger than 96px is shown at 96 px and anything smaller is at its own size
[20:22] <djsiegel> it all flows together like that?
[20:22] <djsiegel> ok, I suppose we can count it
[20:23] <djsiegel> but what if I have a 1px square png ?
[20:23] <djsiegel> is the icon a 1px square ?!
[20:23] <djsiegel> in that case, it's a regression
[20:23] <mac_v> previously it used to scale , everything up to or down to 96px
[20:23] <djsiegel> right
[20:23] <djsiegel> I understand
[20:23] <djsiegel> I think this change is not necessarily an improvement
[20:23] <mac_v> i dont think there can be a 1px icon ;p
[20:24] <mac_v> but yeah feels a bit inconsistent
[20:24] <mac_v> personally , i liked how it was before all shown at 96 px
[20:33] <mac_v> djsiegel: i think it has a grid... just dont know how to describe it , the default size of the folder icons icons is used , and the thumbnails is used centered in that , if bigger it is shown bigger... does that make sense to you ?
[20:33] <mac_v> the thumbnails are centered in that folder icon grid
[20:33] <djsiegel> Nautilus needs all of it's layout stuff redone
[20:34] <djsiegel> on the desktop window, and in normal windows
[20:34] <djsiegel> icons should not have drastically different dimentions
[20:34] <mac_v> djsiegel: the desktop has changed too , 
[20:34] <djsiegel> how so?
[20:35] <mac_v> djsiegel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/388418/comments/7
[20:35] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 388418 in nautilus "Smaller icons on the desktop compared to the Nautilus window" [Undecided,Invalid] 
[20:35] <DanRabbit1> Nautilus fork, ftw
[20:35] <djsiegel> DBO:  you might have fun with this one too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/16492
[20:35] <DanRabbit1> who's with me?
[20:35] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 16492 in hundredpapercuts "Mouse pointer should disappear when keyboard is in use and mouse isn't" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
[20:36] <DBO> djsiegel, you know the active window indicator on docky?
[20:36] <mac_v> i would not say disappear would be better, but rather semi transparent would be nicer , if possible , usually while typing sometimes we might check for the pointer
[20:36] <djsiegel> yup
[20:37] <DBO> ok, now that you have that in mind
[20:37] <DBO> picture in your head the window picker applet
[20:37] <DBO> remove the button like background of the icons in there
[20:37] <DBO> (since we got rid of them)
[20:37] <DBO> and make the icons full panel size
[20:38] <djsiegel> DBO and it looks like the Win7 taskbar?
[20:38] <djsiegel> :)
[20:38] <DBO> active window is full opacity
[20:38] <djsiegel> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/387467/comments/7 is maybe one of my best comments ever
[20:38] <djsiegel> lol
[20:38] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 387467 in totem "obtuse error when ejecting a playing DVD" [Low,Confirmed] 
[20:38] <DBO> inactive windows are 55%
[20:38] <DBO> however this is too subtle
[20:38] <djsiegel> DBO, yeah, alpha does not work will with current gnome-panel
[20:39] <DBO> no I have the alpha bit working fine
[20:39] <DBO> its a matter of you just cant easily tell whats active/not
[20:39] <djsiegel> hmm
[20:39] <DBO> I could really use a chat with those guys who were at UDS
[20:39] <DBO> your teammates
[20:43] <djsiegel> DBO: related to the recent docs paper cut: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/415737
[20:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 415737 in hundredpapercuts "Listings in Recent Documents should be dimmed when no longer available" [Undecided,New] 
[20:43] <djsiegel> you might want to choose between them
[20:43] <djsiegel> DBO, what's up? need some help designing a dialog?
[20:43] <djsiegel> I've really boned up on that skill in the past month or two :)
[20:43] <djsiegel> I must do 1 a day
[20:44] <djsiegel> I take my morning vitamin, then design my daily dialoh
[20:44] <djsiegel> g
[20:44] <DBO> no I just need ideas on how to indicate the active window in such a small space
[20:45] <DBO> and we cant rely on a simple background because sometimes the icon pretty much consumes the whole damned area
[20:45] <DBO> unless we add left/right padding
[20:45] <DBO> which we can do
[20:45] <djsiegel> hmm? I am not entirely clear on the concent
[20:45] <djsiegel> concept
[20:46] <djsiegel> do you have a mockup?
[20:46] <DBO> you have a 24x200 area
[20:46] <DBO> on it lay a bunch of 24x24 icons
[20:46] <DBO> representing all the windows on your desktop
[20:46] <DBO> lets say there are 5 of them
[20:46] <DBO> indicate the one which is active
[20:48] <DBO> you may, if desired, resize the icons to be smaller
[20:48] <DBO> or apply any other transform to them I can figure out how to do in cairo
[20:59] <DBO> djsiegel?
[20:59] <djsiegel> DBO : hayoo
[20:59] <djsiegel> I would "bold" the active one
[20:59] <djsiegel> is there a label?
[20:59] <DBO> nope
[21:00] <DBO> just icons
[21:00] <djsiegel> hmm
[21:00] <djsiegel> drop shadow
[21:00] <DBO> you know... the window picker applet from UNR...
[21:00] <DBO> its on a black background
[21:00] <djsiegel> ah
[21:00] <djsiegel> I am unfamiliar
[21:00] <DBO> currently I am trying out making innactive windows 90% the size of active windows and 55% opacity
[21:00] <DBO> this makes it obvious to me
[21:01] <DBO> but part of the reason for this work was to make it possible to use 100% of the bar size for icons
[21:03] <DBO> this is actually quite a hard problem for me...
[21:04] <djsiegel> DBO, I will look when I have some time later
[21:04] <djsiegel> I need lunch
[21:04] <DBO> alrighty
[21:06] <djsiegel> my mom just called me for help with voicemail on the iphone
[21:06] <djsiegel> she simply doesn't understand the Visual Voicemail feature
[21:07] <djsiegel> "I see a list of the people who left me voicemail, but how do I call to get my voicemails? Do I press #33?"
[21:07] <djsiegel> "Mom, those /are/ the voicemails"
[21:07] <djsiegel> "Press play"
[21:21] <Mark__T> SiDi: ping
[23:29] <SiDi> Mark__T pong