=== nubae_ is now known as Nubae [13:17] Hi [13:19] Hello [13:20] I would like to chat with some representative from Edubuntu in private [13:27] chungur: What, an official representitive? :) Don't think we have one. It's probably best to say whatever you need to say in here. [13:29] he messaged me in private by name, but nothing further :-) [13:31] we're talking in pvt at the moment [13:34] Oooh, very cloak and dagger, be sure to let us know what transpires, Mr. "Official Representitve" :) [13:35] bbiab [17:24] highvoltage: ping [17:25] Morning ace [17:25] hi sbalneav, how's the coding coming along? [17:26] Well, my ppa failed me, but stgraber took my work and submitted it for me. [17:26] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/karmic-changes/2009-August/007310.html [17:26] so it's at least made it into karmic [17:27] very good! [17:27] Now I just need to get something going for the handbook [17:27] oh yeah that would be swell. [17:27] How can I help ? [17:30] sbalneav: lets just discuss it at the meeting friday okay... [17:32] How much do you know about docbook? [17:32] If nothing else, having standardized pages on the wiki that the handbook can point to would be fine. [17:33] i know noting about docbook but I once knew nothing about PHP, Linux, RoR, OpenLdap, postfix, qmail, qmail-ldap, djbdns, apache, nginx, mailman ... so I can learn. [17:34] If you have 5 minutes of FULL attention, I would like to ask you a few questions, if not, another time. [17:35] u dont really need to know anything about docbook [17:35] its more about respecting the xml tags [17:35] hi nubae_ [17:35] so edit in an editor that doesnt try to import docbook [17:36] I learnt that lesson the hard way, and sbalneav spent a good week correcting my mistakes [17:36] hi ace_suares :-) [17:36] I tried to open the docbook format in open office, which is supposed to understand it, but doesnt of course [17:36] On the wiki there are lot of handbook pages. like this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Documentation/Handbook [17:37] and this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuHandbook/EdgyOutline [17:37] it all seems like a mess. [17:37] it is [17:37] ace_suares: I'm all ears [17:37] basically take the edubuntu cookbook [17:37] thats the only one worth anything [17:38] and strip out the ltsp stuff [17:38] For me it would be godd to scrap all that sh*t at some point and start with something fresh that will actulaly *have* a structure. [17:38] yeah [17:38] btw... have u guys seen linux-for-education.org? [17:38] nubae_: It wasn't that big a deal. It got fixed [17:38] So what I would need is an inventarisations of handbook/cookbook pages and then decide which can go, be redirected, or should be moved to a new site. [17:39] its a moodle site that we created, and is partly sponsored by opensuse [17:39] but it would be cool if all distros were to help out with it [17:39] oh yeah io saw that it's pretty cool but a bit empty [17:39] right [17:39] can u help fill it :-) [17:39] haha i am not IN education really [17:39] it would be nice to be joint edubuntu/opensuse-edu project to start with [17:40] I ma just tryin gto get schools to use Free Software. [17:40] well edubuntu is education [17:40] right... [17:40] ace_suares: What's your questions? [17:40] sbalneav: Is there a *valid* version of the handbook on the wiki now? [17:40] sbalneav: and where is it if it's there? [17:41] I know of no version of the handbook on the wiki. The handbook was always a docbook document. [17:41] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Documentation/Handbook what about this ? [17:41] or this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuHandbook/EdgyOutline [17:42] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/Background or this [17:42] The first one just outlines contributing [17:42] the cookbooks were older. [17:42] yeah we can keep that and update it. [17:43] the link from the last real work is the link on the first page: [17:43] so the cookbook has no value anymore? [17:43] http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/ [17:43] thats the one [17:43] yeah that is on doc.ubuntu..com and I am not touching that [17:43] I took that as the base for the ltsp handbook [17:43] which is the HTML transliteration of the work I did organizing for edgy. [17:44] The .debs of which are in my ppa [17:44] can we say that all 'handbook' and 'cookbook' stuff on the wiki is not valid anymore (except the general 'how to contribute' and such pages) ? [17:44] nubae_: right, because at one time the only valid LTSP documentation was what I threw together for edgy. [17:44] yep [17:44] with your work, we got that separated out. [17:44] ace_suares: I'd say so, yes. [17:45] Becaue if that is so, I will put them all in special category and clean it up (without loosing info before the meetin has decided on the approach). [17:45] so I stripped out all the ltsp stuff, but kinda neglected the edubuntu specific stuff [17:45] it just got dumped [17:45] right. So what we can do is go back to my package, strip out the LTSP stuff, and just keep the edu and installing stuff [17:45] looking back, should have done both :-) [17:45] beauty of hindsight [17:45] yeah [17:46] pretty cool. i'll clean up the wiki then before the meeting regarding handbook and cookbook, so we can then discuss soon how to approach the new handbook. [17:46] We've got thr ltsp manual which we can package, and we can just cross link between the two. [17:46] Thos were my questions! [17:46] what would be COOL is, if ace gets the wiki sorted, then we can refer to SPECIFIC information in the wiki , which keeps the handbook, which is more static, up to date. [17:47] +1 [17:47] gotta eat now I'll catch up later. [17:47] ok [17:48] sbalneav: congrats for the sabayon@karmic thing :) You rocks :D [17:49] alkisg1, did u know u can use kiwi to make non opensuse images too? === alkisg1 is now known as alkisg [17:50] u can make exact fatcopies of debian/ubuntu/fedora [17:50] nubae_: erm... gimme an example [17:50] all running off same machine [17:50] managed with smart [17:50] But still, I won't be able to directly maintain the image, will I? [17:50] might be worth looking at... opensuse folks might do a fedora port just to show proof [17:51] yeah through smart [17:51] or u mean in real time? [17:51] in real time no... but directly sure [17:51] I mean with the usual tools for administration [17:51] smart package manager [17:51] E.g. can I use sabayon to lock things down in the image? [17:51] its like synaptic [17:52] Can I use gconf-editor to modify things inside the image? [17:52] sure, y wouldnt u be able to install whateber u want [17:52] It's not only about installing packages... [17:53] No, I mean, how would I use gconf-editor to modify /path/to/image/etc/gconfd/mandatory settings ? [17:53] on #ltsp, ask cyberorg more about kiwi... he knows much more than I [17:53] I've been trying my approach for fat clients, [17:53] and I'm now able to boot any number of clients from 1 desktop pc with just dnsmasq + 2 init scripts in it [17:54] I'm going to package it soon and ask for opinions [17:54] any number of clients? how many u tried with? [17:54] 3 :) [17:54] But it's just nfs, it's been used a lot, I don't think there will be a problem with it [17:54] nfs support is hardwired into the initscripts, maybe more that any other remote filesystem [17:56] So I can maintain a single desktop PC, and boot all the classroom pcs from its hard disk. The easiest way to maintain a lab I've ever seen. [17:59] hmmm nfs was not made to multitask large amounts of data like that though [18:00] Id need to see it working on at least 20 concurrently to be convinced [18:00] It's just hard disk data, much, much lower than screen data [18:01] nubae_: do you have access to such a lab, to try it out, when I package it? Only dnsmasq + 2 initscripts will be installed... [18:01] Unfortunately, my labs are really low-end [18:02] ace_suares: pong [18:03] sbalneav: ooh, glad it made it into karmic [18:32] sorry just locked myself out of my house but was lucky enough to use the credit card trick to open the door [18:33] alkisg, yeah I have a special test lab with multiple computer types [18:33] from 2002-2009 [18:33] its our test centre at guadalinex [18:33] Perfect. [18:33] 100mbps? [18:34] and gigabit [18:34] we can set it how we like [18:34] but we do use hardware based virtualisation too, dont know how that will affect [18:34] Well it will clone one "example" pc, whichever you want [18:35] So if you install it in a PC with vbox installed, all clients will have vbox installed [18:35] I tried it, it worked fine [18:35] anyway, we are looking for a solution like that so... can even do it during work hours [18:35] well this is hardware based kvm... guess its irrelevant [18:36] Are you OK with dnsmasq as a dependency, or do you want me to allow tftp/dhcp3-server? But in this case you'll have to do a few things manually.. [18:36] so yeah send me the script and ill test it tomorrow [18:36] I can test both ways [18:36] No it's not ready yet for non-manual testing. Let me package it correctly first, with autodetection, account (=pc) creation etc [18:36] just make sure u give me relatively specific instructions [18:37] It'll take me a few days to finish it [18:37] ok... so need to just follow your instructions then u mean? [18:37] or u want me to wait for your scripts? [18:37] When I finish it, I hope that all you have to do is install it. No instructions unless you hit a bug or something. [18:38] Wait :) [18:39] I'll send you a mail when I have it ready [18:39] ok :-/ [18:39] :-( [18:39] You _can_ try it now, but you'll need to do a lot of things manually [18:39] * nubae_ is anxious to test this after so much talking about it :p [18:39] So you'll just get frustrated :-/ [18:39] sure, thats ok... I need to do something at work [18:40] and my pyclic app is pretty much done [18:40] OK ping me tomorrow morning, at least gimme the evening to wrap it up [18:40] python rocks so much... I really wonder how I lived without it now [18:40] ok [18:40] I get in to work at 8... so I'll ping u then :p [18:41] hey, if it works out, u'll have your stuff running in thousands of Spanish schools [18:41] ;-) [18:42] Heh. No, it'll need *a lot* of debugging before going to production [18:42] yeah I know :-) [18:42] I'm just getting you psyched.... [18:42] The major pain is finding which dirs need to be writable... === nubae_ is now known as Nubae [18:43] alkisg, did I tell u I am a opensuse member now :p ? [18:43] Nope! Is that the equivelant of an ubuntu member? [18:43] yep [18:43] Nubae ftw! :) [18:43] well even better... get much more 'power' [18:44] ...and in the Friday you'll be an edubuntu member as well... /me wonders if he has to try to become a member some day :) [18:44] funny, so I'll have @opensuse.org email, @ubuntu.org email [18:45] I wonder if they have good spam filters [18:45] yeah y not, I thought u already were [18:45] hehe [18:45] Nah... I help here at the irc, and do a lot of stuff for the greek community, but I haven't contributed much upstream or in wikies yet [18:45] well u've done enough... Lns is a member [18:46] and u contributed about as much or more than him [18:46] Lns did a lot of work in the wiki, though [18:46] specially with your apps [18:46] yeah he did [18:47] hehe, I guess I am a guadalinex member too, and sugar member [18:47] ...well I'm ok with myself, I think I've done enough this year that I am windows-free :) Next year I'll do better :) [18:47] have emails for all of them... bit ridiculous really [18:48] Yeah too many emails are more trouble than helpful [18:48] spam magnet [18:49] one thing u can help with is linux-for-education.org, its a moodle install that is meant to be for all the distros working together [18:49] u could put a howto for your project there [18:49] I'm just writing an LTSP on opensuse one right now [18:49] Can that be used in multilingual projects? [18:49] yes, thats the idea [18:50] I'm restructuring so toplevel is languages [18:50] even have some Taiwanese guy wanting to collaborate [18:51] anyway, I'll add Greek too [18:51] We were looking on where to put some kturtle lessons... we put it at the ubuntu-gr loco site, but an edu-based site would be better [18:51] I guess it makes sense to have the top level in the actual language itself [18:51] so Deutsch and not German [18:51] what would Greek be? [18:52] :) [18:52] Ooouch :) Ελληνικά [18:53] ok... no problem [18:54] I plan to bring it up on Friday, but would be good if there is already some stuff up there so can say, edubuntu and opensuse-edu folks are ALREADY collaborating to bring together the largest source of open learning materails for linux :-) [18:55] Umm I'll try to tell teachers here to use it, but I don't think they'll manage to get anything up till Friday... [18:55] when u create a user, let me know so I can give u admin priveledges to be able to upload courses, create subsections, etc [18:56] sbalneav: [ubuntu/karmic] sabayon 2.27.91-0ubuntu1 (Accepted) [18:56] hehe, right, but just one example would be good [18:56] a skeleton they can follow [18:56] Nubae: ok - let's leave this for the next week, to push "twins" forward a little... [18:56] yup [18:56] sbalneav: \o/ [19:01] alkisg, take a look at this: http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/KIWI/Cookbook [19:01] gonna turn that into a moodle course too [19:02] Nubae: nice! ...and looks useful, too! :P [19:02] well it is... have a read... u might even be able to combine it with what u are doing [19:03] as in the case u wanted images for different oses running off the same machine [19:03] I dunno... just an idea.. though I'm totally guessing since I dont even know what your stuff does exactly yet :-) [19:05] No the main idea is *not* to have any images [19:05] E.g. if you want 3 different OSes, you keep them in 3 different PCs [19:06] Goal: lab administration == desktop PC administration [19:06] OK, back to packaging... [19:11] sbalneav: I see on launchapad you've had some uploads to gutsy before as well [19:13] alkisg, can u paste me Courses in greek, or greek courses, in greek [19:13] Nubae: Μαθήματα στα Ελληνικά [19:15] highvoltage: Yeah. Most of my work is upstream [19:16] alkisg, ok its there toplevel [19:16] u'll have to edit the description a bit...right now its just a c opy of the category [19:17] Wow.. that was fast :) [19:18] moodle rocks to edit [19:18] have u got a user there? [19:18] Nubae: so anyone is able to create an account and upload content? [19:19] well, an admin has to enable them to be a course creator [19:19] Good [19:19] but our policy is quite relaxed, no massive background checks [19:19] :-) [19:20] i left it neglected a bit for the last months... [19:20] And opensuse-edu funds the hosting? [19:20] gonna give another go at growing it... but really, community help is best for that [19:20] yep [19:20] novell pays for it! [19:21] So I guess it'll be there for at least a few years... sounds good. [19:21] yes it will and its gotten very good reviews so far, though needs to grow significantly [19:23] Is the server kinda slow? I can't get the signup page to load completely [19:24] Ah ok it was chrome's fault [19:24] hmm, its usually very fast [19:25] heh, I think there is even a howto install chrome course there [19:26] A "how to make chrome not-suck" would be more useful, though :) [19:26] hehe yeah [19:27] so, the way I have it subcategorised in English is, subjects under Courses in English [19:27] and inside ICT, I have Fedora based, Suse based, Ubuntu based, etc [19:27] try and copy the structure in greek where relevant [19:28] when u are a user let me know so I can give u the priveledges [19:28] I'm waiting for the account creation mail [19:29] oh, can confirm u atuomatically, if the mail doesnt come let me know... cause could be a problem there [19:30] ok, confirmed u [19:30] u can login now [19:32] and u are now an admin [19:32] Danke! :) [19:32] you may need to log out to get privs.... [19:33] when u login, ull see on the right create courses/categories [19:33] go wild there... [19:33] I'm gonna send an email in the greek teachers list, and if people are interested, I'll try to organize it in the next weeks [19:33] excellent [19:33] But if they aren't, I'll focus on development :-/ === dgroos__ is now known as dgroos [19:34] :-( Well the should be interested in having a common place to keep all lesson plans [19:34] as far as I know... this is the best option at the moment [19:35] Has anyone looked at the bug lists lately? I'm going to spend some time before karmic on general bugfixes. Now that sabayon's at least in a useable state, I was wondering if anyone else had any showstoppers they'd like looked at? [19:37] sbalneav: the ldm-hanging-at-logout bug - but it seems to be fixed with the "close" instead of "read" patch [19:38] alkisg: yeah, I added a thread which consumes any output generated during the session, and stgraber added the close. [19:39] I was thinking some of the more neglected areas of edubuntu [19:39] Nice, that one was a little critical [19:39] like, say, the educational apps :) [19:40] well... one thing we absolutely need to do is create the extras meta package [19:40] the one with uni and multiverse apps in it [19:40] to expand the edu offerings [19:41] we've been talking about it for nearly a year now and still have nothing [19:41] I have a list of apps I studied to make sure they worked ok and would be intereting to the edu community... u want me to send it your way sbalneav ? [19:46] Well, I've never created a meta package, but send it my way, and I can try creating one. [19:46] I can stick it in my ppa, then see if we can get it sponsored [19:47] thats not really how metapackages work [19:47] you need toi create a seed first [19:48] then make germinate read that seed, then you can add the seed to the existing edubuntu-meta package [19:48] which will spit out what you need [19:48] * ogra really thinks that should be left to LaserJock, he has experience [19:51] Another area would be the educational-menus == different gnome menus per (student) group [19:52] that exists ... it lacks gui integration [19:52] well, he can download the source of an existing meta package [19:52] its not all that hard [19:52] Nubae, ?? [19:52] laserjock already created -primary -secondary, -tertiary, etc [19:52] the source doesnt give you anything and if you do it worng it breaks the CD building [19:53] you need to commit apps and the like to the seeds [19:53] I took a look into it a while back [19:53] they rule what shows up in the metapackage if the update script is run [19:53] yeah I know... he can download those from launchpad [19:53] right [19:54] but changing the metapackage source wont gain you a bit [19:54] the seeds are the essential bit [19:54] I'm all for laserjock doing it, but he may not be around for a while, he's probably quite busy with real life stuff [19:54] right, I meant looking at the seeds [19:55] you can indeed just branch them and make your changes ass you like [19:56] think I used the seeds to see what apps were installed in the different distros (hardy, intrepid, jaunty) [19:56] to create the apps list for the website [19:59] Ah, on topic, is there any way to check which packages (and versions) are preinstalled in each ubuntu version? [20:00] E.g. how can I see if dnsmasq-base is preinstalled in hardy? [20:02] dpkg -l | grep dnsmasq [20:02] oh [20:02] I mean, if I *don't* have hardy :) [20:02] ah, I see [20:03] With seeds or something... [20:03] "Hey, person who's running hardy, could you run dpkg -l | grep dnsmasq and tell me what it says?" [20:03] That's how *I*'d do it :) === dgroos__ is now known as dgroos [20:04] FYI, no it's not :) [20:04] -base? [20:04] dpkg -l 'dnsmasq*' [20:04] sbalneav@feniks:~$ dpkg -l | grep dnsmasq [20:04] sbalneav@feniks:~$ dpkg -l 'dnsmasq*' [20:04] No packages found matching dnsmasq*. [20:04] sbalneav@feniks:~$ [20:05] Hum. Well... they'd have to install it :) In Jaunty/Karmic it is. [20:05] Thanks! [20:05] NP [20:06] * alkisg notes that method down as an official workaround :D [20:06] Any old port in a storm :) [20:08] I beleive it was Alexander the Great, a greek of some small repute, who unravelled the gordion knot [20:08] I think we just did that here :) [20:09] Well... instead of unravelling it, he just cut it in half. Hmmm, yeah, that's what we did too :) [20:13] 3 months ago I finished reading another biography of Alexander. [20:14] Just a story about a man and his horse (Beucephalous) [20:14] I've always wanted to travel to Greece. Fascinating place. [20:16] How know how it is... and I've always wanted to travel to the US, to Canada etc... [20:17] But I think the the friends you see wherever you go are more important than the places you visit [20:18] Well, by far the best is to see the places with the friends you love :) [20:19] Hence, if you ever come to Canada, you're welcome to stay at Casa de Balneaves :) [20:19] But winnipeg's pretty boring. Known mainly for being flat :) [20:20] We have a joke here in the prairies. "It's so flat here you can watch your dog run away for 3 days" [20:26] Heh. My town is the exact opposite [20:26] Mountains all around [20:32] We have an empty appartment below mine, so if you're into mountains, feel free to come either alone or with your family === vorian is now known as poopsmith === poopsmith is now known as vorian === dgroos_ is now known as dgroos === dgroos_ is now known as dgroos === dgroos__ is now known as dgroos [22:24] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/kdeedu/+bug/419498 this is a easy one, can someone please confirm this bug ? [22:24] Launchpad bug 419498 in kdeedu "(kdeedu package) step tries to load non-existent files" [Undecided,New]