[00:10] #startmeeting [00:10] Meeting started at 18:10. The chair is nhandler. [00:10] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [00:10] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings [00:10] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings [00:11] [TOPIC] Issuing the quiz to Padawans [00:11] New Topic: Issuing the quiz to Padawans [00:11] Rocket2DMn: Do you want to discuss this? Or should we defer it until bodhi is around? [00:11] nhandler, we need to wait for bodhi on that one [00:12] [AGREED] Wait to discuss Issuing the quiz to Padawans until bodhizazen is present [00:12] AGREED received: Wait to discuss Issuing the quiz to Padawans until bodhizazen is present [00:12] [TOPIC AOT] [00:12] [TOPIC] AOT [00:12] New Topic: AOT [00:12] Any other Topics to discuss? [00:13] why are we the only ones participating? [00:13] Don't really have anything to add.... [00:13] I'm here, nothing to add :) [00:14] yeah same here [00:14] me too [00:14] +1 [00:14] I't pretty typical for late summer to be slow [00:14] ok [00:15] If there are no other topics to discuss, I would like to give a status update about some outstanding actions that I have been working on [00:15] [TOPIC] Status update on outstanding actions [00:15] New Topic: Status update on outstanding actions [00:15] The ##beginners-classroom channel has now been dropped. All classroom sessions should take place in #ubuntu-beginners [00:15] nhandler: what do you mean? [00:16] yvan300: About what? [00:16] nhandler: wow, not in -classroom anymore? [00:16] er #ubuntu-classroom [00:16] thats surprising [00:16] nhandler: outstanding actions topic [00:16] pleia2: That is what I meant, sorry [00:16] oh good :) [00:16] :) [00:16] back to sleep pleia2 :) [00:16] (and I) [00:16] hehe [00:16] oh ok, sounds fine then. [00:16] Thanks for catching that pleia2 [00:17] np [00:17] yvan300: Outstanding actions are items from previous meeting that people were assigned to take care of [00:17] nhandler: link [00:17] yvan300: Meeting logs are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings and the Team Reports are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReports [00:18] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings [00:18] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings [00:18] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReports [00:18] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReports [00:19] I have also made some progress on the new mailing lists. An RT request has been filed, and it has been assigned to the appropriate owner. I will continue to follow up with this to ensure the list gets created [00:19] [ACTION] nhandler to follow up on new mailing list creation [00:19] ACTION received: nhandler to follow up on new mailing list creation [00:20] cool [00:20] Since yvan300 has to go, lets do his membership vote [00:20] [TOPIC] yvan300 membership [00:20] New Topic: yvan300 membership [00:20] yvan300: Care to say a few words about yourself? [00:21] well, i'm yvan pierre, a young lad who loves programming and helping others [00:22] yvan300: What have you been doing with the Beginners Team? [00:22] well since i began back in feburary, i spent my time getting to know the team, getting ck linked and helping other whenever i can in ubuntu-beginners-help [00:24] i also became a part of ubuntu-beginners-ynu so that i can become a better, more polite person over the internet :P [00:24] Anyone else have anything to say, or sould we vote? [00:25] bring on the vote! [00:25] +1 Rocket2DMn [00:25] [VOTE] Should yvan300 become a member of the Ubuntu Beginners Team? [00:25] Please vote on: Should yvan300 become a member of the Ubuntu Beginners Team?. [00:25] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [00:25] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [00:25] +0 [00:25] Abstention received from nhandler. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0 [00:25] +1 [00:25] +1 received from swoody. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1 [00:25] +1 [00:26] +1 [00:26] +1 received from tim_sharitt. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2 [00:26] +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3 [00:26] +1 [00:26] +1 received from y_lee. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4 [00:26] +1 [00:26] +1 received from starcraftman. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5 [00:27] Any more votes? [00:28] +1 [00:28] +1 received from pleia2. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6 [00:28] [ENDVOTE] [00:28] Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 6 [00:28] Congrats and welcome to the team yvan300 ! [00:28] nhandler: well met , and thanks everyone :D [00:28] welcome yvan300 , good to have you on board [00:28] * starcraftman gives yvan300 his own personalized stuffed squirrel with nut gun as present! [00:28] congrats yvan300 [00:29] thank you Rocket2DMn y_lee and tkanks for the squirrel starcraftman :P [00:30] yvan300: You have been added to ~ubuntu-beginners on Launchpad. Be sure to subscribe to the mailing list. You will get voice in #ubuntu-beginners once someone with +f shows up. You are also entitled to a VoteBot factoid. [00:30] yvan300: your welcome, welcome aboard and have fun. [00:30] [AGREED] yvan300 to join the Ubuntu Beginners Team [00:30] AGREED received: yvan300 to join the Ubuntu Beginners Team [00:30] now if only bodhi magically appeared, like when I mention Rocket2DMn.... [00:31] So, anything else to discuss tonight? [00:31] nhandler: ok, i'm gonna check it out now, but anyway i have to go , may be back later, nite team :P [00:31] bye yvan300 and welcome again :) [00:31] Good night yvan300, and congratulations! [00:31] * Rocket2DMn appears [00:31] o/ [00:32] Rocket2DMn: hehe, ya can't appear if ya didn't dissapear first.... then its not magic! [00:32] Are there any FGs that have anything to share with the team? [00:34] Last call for anyone with topics to discuss. Otherwise, we will end this meeting. [00:35] i think thats it, thanks for hosting nhandler [00:35] o/ [00:35] Go ahead swoody [00:35] was there something we needed bodhi here for? Are we going to restart the meeting if he does come online? [00:36] swoody: Rocket2DMn's agenda item needed bodhi. We will not restart the meeting though if he shows up later. We will just defer the item until the next meeting [00:36] ok sounds good :) [00:37] LOL! [00:37] Ah, here is bodhi_zazen now ;) [00:37] haha [00:37] Rocket2DMn: Want to do your agenda item? [00:37] ah, he mad eit [00:37] sure [00:37] [TOPIC] Issuing the quiz to Padawans [00:37] New Topic: Issuing the quiz to Padawans [00:38] 'lo all [00:38] can't stay long =) [00:38] I think the general consensus is that BT members want padawans to continue to be given the ritual quiz [00:39] if bodhi_zazen wants to share his list of questions with some others authorized to give the quiz, that would take some burden off of him [00:39] orly ? [00:39] By "authorized", who did you have in mind Rocket2DMn ? [00:40] idk nhandler , whoever bodhi_zazen wants. It doesn't have to be the council [00:42] Well I'd have an opinion if I actually saw the quiz. In general, I've never thought quizes to be that essential though, usually its not hard to tell when people meet set requirements for membership. [00:42] well, I think the current process of mentoring is best [00:43] starcraftman, it's just sort of a rite of passage :) [00:43] I think it would be ideal if members would help the new ones integrate into the team [00:43] +1 bodhi_zazen [00:43] agreed bodhi_zazen , but it would still be good to use the quiz to see how much people actually know [00:43] if that is happening the quiz is almost unnecessary, as it really does not add much [00:44] I think a mentor would have a much better feel about a new candidate than a quiz could give us [00:44] bodhi_zazen: I'm wiht you on mentoring being more important, as I mentioned in the UA meeting I think it could be improved a bit. [00:44] Rocket2DMn: The quiz rarely ended up testing knowledge. It almost always tested personality. Although, we could change that [00:44] some members (mentors) have been kind enough to review posts on the forms, review wiki pages, etc [00:44] nhandler, equally important :) [00:45] If the mentoring program can not be revised we need to re consider much, the whole membership process, re-writing wiki pages , etc [00:45] so it is not a small decision [00:47] ok, well i didnt mean for this to be a discussion about the whole membership process [00:47] I dont think the quiz and Padawan system are mutually exclusive, I think the system works great [00:48] I just didnt want the quiz to fall by the wayside, as it's been tradition for as long as I've been around [00:48] I thought we decided to abandon the quiz [00:48] If not, it is easy to do [00:49] Rocket2DMn: Well nobody gave to me. [00:49] bodhi_zazen: We dropped it as a requirement for membership [00:49] I can post the questions if you would like [00:49] who would like to dish it out ? [00:49] Should it be another individual? Or a team/FG ? [00:49] that's pretty much abandoning it nhandler =) [00:50] nhandler: before we go there we would need to decide to bring the quiz back [00:51] starcraftman, i know, but we're all well aware about your skill level [00:51] [VOTE] Should we revive the quiz? [00:51] Please vote on: Should we revive the quiz?. [00:51] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [00:51] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [00:51] +1 [00:51] +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [00:51] 0 [00:52] bodhi_zazen: +0 [00:52] +0 [00:52] Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1 [00:52] +1 [00:52] +1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2 [00:52] +1 [00:52] +1 received from y_lee. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3 [00:52] +0 [00:52] Abstention received from starcraftman. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3 [00:52] +1 [00:52] +1 received from swoody. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4 [00:52] +0 [00:52] Abstention received from Snova. 4 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 4 [00:53] Any more votes? [00:54] No clear direction there, a trend =) [00:54] [ENDVOTE] [00:54] Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 4 [00:54] masters can let me know when people are ready for a little quiz then [00:55] anyone interested in administering the quiz, let me know [00:55] Maybe we could discuss this on the mailing list? [00:55] I would probably like to watch one or two =) [00:55] mailing list is all but dead =) [00:55] almost no one uses it for "discussion" [00:55] Then send something to it and make it active ;) [00:55] hehe [00:55] The few discussions we have had got pretty good responses [00:55] People are just hesitant to start them [00:56] If you like [00:56] I have a few things I would say, but nothing I can say immediately; I shall probably post something later. [00:56] I am going to have to run [00:56] mailing lists dont have to be extremely active to be useful :) [00:56] later bodhi_zazen [00:56] thanks bodhi_zazen , see you later [00:56] My only issue is to see they mentoring program revitalized [00:57] I think that is much more important, really [00:57] bodhi_zazen: agreed. [00:57] IMO the quiz is secondary [00:57] agreed [00:57] Would someone like to take the action to start some discussion about this topic on the ML ? [00:57] is it needed nhandler ? [00:57] i can if you want [00:57] I think we should get some more discussion on this topic [00:58] Thanks Rocket2DMn [00:58] [ACTION] Rocket2DMn to start discussion on mailing list about quiz/mentoring program [00:58] ACTION received: Rocket2DMn to start discussion on mailing list about quiz/mentoring program [00:58] Anything else to talk about, or can we end the meeting? [00:58] nhandler: I'll add too later, I just remembered an idea I had at UA meeting. Sometime, wanna relax a bit first.... [01:00] Ok, thanks for coming everyone. The next meeting will take place on Tuesday, September 8, 2009 at 23:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting [01:00] [ENDMEETING] [01:00] #ENDMEETING [01:00] Meeting finished at 19:00. [01:00] thanks for chairing nhandler, appreciated of course :) === holstein is now known as mikeh789 === mikeh789 is now known as holstein === Cuddles is now known as Richie === johe__ is now known as johe === vuntz_ is now known as vuntz === e-jat is now known as ejat === WelshDragon is now known as Richie === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === imlad|away is now known as imlad === fader|away is now known as fader === marjomercado is now known as marjo [16:00] #startmeeting [16:00] Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew. [16:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [16:00] * slangasek waves [16:00] hi [16:00] hello [16:00] yo [16:00] * mvo waves [16:01] hi [16:02] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0826#Agenda [16:02] LINK received: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0826#Agenda [16:02] cjwatson: Keybuk: around? [16:03] yup [16:04] hi [16:04] [TOPIC] Karmic Feature Freeze Exceptions [16:04] New Topic: Karmic Feature Freeze Exceptions [16:04] who needs'em? [16:04] I will need one for app-center [16:04] eh, software-store [16:04] do I need them if I set the spec for beta in the first place? :) [16:04] (thats the new name) [16:05] mvo: heh...no hyphen (-) [16:05] Keybuk: uh, I believe so [16:05] and maybe for compiz, there is rumor of a new upstream release (0.8.4) [16:05] mvo: why are you still doing compiz? [16:05] robbiew: then I'll file bugs like last time ;-) [16:05] I uploaded an initial version of cloud installer support to the archive today; it's quite incomplete in some ways, specifically it doesn't yet generate the preseed file for the node. However, it does have the basic avahi stuff in place [16:05] Keybuk: ack [16:05] robbiew: don't ask [16:06] cjwatson: okay [16:06] mvo: hmmm [16:06] * robbiew will take compiz stuff offline [16:06] on GRUB2, I'm still working with upstream on some of the backward compat details (specifically making sure that it doesn't completely break people who forgot to run grub-install after update-grub); it's looking very promising though, and if the remaining bits are considered a feature I'd like an exception for them [16:06] might need one to get the last of the new launchpadlib in place, blocked on python-oauth being suitable for main [16:07] plus, bzr [16:07] robbiew: seriously, there is some stuff in git that looks pretty useful, fixes and the infamouse crasher that has so many dupes that it makes LP timeout :) [16:07] upstream would like us to get the grub 1.97 release into karmic if at all possible; I'll upload a fresh snapshot before feature freeze, and from then on it should be primarily bug fixes [16:07] a current snapshot will have some basic auth support, which I know is a requirement from some quarters [16:07] mvo: sure...I just think the desktop team should handle it...but I'm fine with you helping, if it doesn't impact other work ;) [16:07] *cough* [16:07] james_w: ack [16:08] cjwatson: okay...thnx [16:08] cjwatson: are we going to be pulling in grub2 by default on upgrade to karmic? I thought that was planned at UDS, but would've expected it to land by now if so [16:09] slangasek: I thought we explicitly decided against that [16:09] hmm, not what I had remembered :) [16:09] but ok [16:09] I also have the MIR and seed changes for kerneloops to complete once it's out of binary NEW [16:09] the spec is fairly explicit about this [16:09] (we spent an awful lot of time in that session spec'ing out how to make the upgrade flawless) [16:10] the upgrade is relatively smooth, and that's a useful feature, but I don't think that implies that we should inflict it on everyone [16:10] +1 [16:10] imho, it's a bit dangerous to simply force folks [16:11] Kickstart: preseedable LVM-on-RAID is done and will land today as soon as the sync is available from Debian, and that's by far the most useful bit; I'm fighting with adding RAID support to Kickstart as well, and think I should have that done by FF [16:11] I would like to defer iSCSI support in Kickstart, sorry [16:12] I may be biased having dealt with update-grub, but I disagree there :) [16:12] cjwatson: no problem on the deferal [16:12] I know update-grub is horrible, but it basically works for several million people [16:13] is there a way to ask people during a dist upgrade if they want to keep grub or switch to grub2? [16:13] I'd like to consider that in karmic+1 [16:13] oh yeah, slangasek feature freeze is midnight tonight, is that correct? [16:13] the only way would really be extra UI in update-manager [16:13] ok [16:14] james_w: yes [16:14] cool [16:14] one debconf question closer to becoming Debian :) [16:14] well, or maybe have grub legacy depend on grub2 and ask a debconf question [16:14] but honestly I'd rather not muck about with it now [16:14] I'm just thinking that the boot experience work relies heavily on grub2 being installed [16:15] python-packaging> other than some talk with debian I have not put a lot of work into it, there is some proposal work on the debian side, I hope we can use that. in the meantime we should change the crritial stuff to use DH_PYCENTRAL=include-links [16:15] it's much more of a priority for that to work perfectly on fresh installs, isn't it? [16:15] maybe computer-janitor could offer to switch things over ...? [16:15] priorities> agreed, certainly [16:15] yep...not worried about it...just making a note [16:15] we can simply include something in the release notes about it [16:15] I was just confused becuase the spec didn't match how I remembered the outcome of the session [16:16] cjwatson: hmm...that's a good idea [16:16] liw: ? [16:16] cjwatson, janitor suggesting grub2 if grub is installed: that should work fine [16:16] slangasek: stay off the drugs [16:16] lol [16:16] if I misremembered the session while writing the notes, well, that's possible and if so I'm sorry - but at this point it's an error that was left to stand for several months, and so (as you say) it really ought to have landed by now already [16:16] cjwatson, it'd be easy to do, if it's enough to just install the grub2 package -- is that enough? [16:17] liw: there's a post-reboot step, which is a little non-trivial [16:17] you install grub2 (actually grub-pc), do a test reboot which chainloads through grub to grub2, and if that worked you run upgrade-from-grub-legacy [16:17] evand: before I forget, will you need an FFE for the Migration Assistant stuff? [16:17] cjwatson, hm, then it's not so easy, but let's discuss that later [16:17] ideally, the last ought to be hooked up to a notification or something [16:18] robbiew: I'm actually keen to defer that. I don't think it's feasible to get it in reasonable enough shape, and get it tested by release, while making sure my others specs don't suffer as a result. [16:18] sounds like we want a post-upgrade hook for this [16:18] [ACTION] liw and cjwatson to discuss possibility of moving users to grub2 via computer janitor [16:18] ACTION received: liw and cjwatson to discuss possibility of moving users to grub2 via computer janitor [16:19] evand: no problem...deferred! ;) [16:19] [ACTION] robbiew to defer Migration Assistant [16:19] ACTION received: robbiew to defer Migration Assistant [16:19] everything else is in good shape and either in place or awaiting archive processing. [16:19] cool [16:20] slangasek: Multiarch Support....I feel a deferral coming :P [16:20] "ask again later" [16:20] lol [16:20] slangasek: but it's FF today! :D [16:20] :) [16:21] there's still slow progress; I don't have a sense yet of whether it's going to come together in time, because development is so bursty [16:21] I think we gave it a week (or two) past FF [16:21] I have a bit that I'm working on for dpkg right now which I hope to get to guillem today/tomorrow [16:21] so I'll keep asking ;) [16:21] yeah :) [16:21] but the bit I'm working on is a relatively small piece [16:21] mvo: is there anything waiting on us for the Distribution Upgrade Testing work by the QA team? [16:22] we're still missing, um... the database changes to handle multiple arch packages, and the dep resolver changes to DTRT with multiarch packages [16:22] robbiew: I'm not aware of anythin [16:22] g [16:22] mvo: cool [16:23] Keybuk: have you even looked at the RAM /tmpfs stuff? :P [16:23] robbiew: yes [16:23] oh..cool [16:23] and I uncovered pretty serious bugs in the kernel's virtual memory system [16:23] that made me want to go away and hide [16:23] lol [16:24] it looks like they'll be fixed for .32 or .33 or so [16:24] RAM /tmpfs depends on growable swap, which depends on swapfiles, etc. [16:24] what were the bugs? [16:24] it turns out that the kernel has some major issues when it nears the top of available virtual memory [16:24] cjwatson: kernel refuses to sacrifice any page cache [16:24] translation: deferred! [16:24] lol [16:24] kernel refuses to swap contents of tmpfs [16:25] Keybuk: do you have bug numbers for the kernel stuff? [16:25] if you have a swap file, kernel goes into a loop of paging things in and out of it [16:25] if you don't have a swap file, kernel OOMs just about every process [16:25] and for luck, it often PANICs [16:25] oh, lovely [16:25] robbiew: lkml posts [16:25] yeah, I'm in no rush to tickle that kind of bug [16:26] Keybuk: cool...I'll go and look...or you can send me a pointer ;) [16:27] robbiew: will dig up the discussion [16:27] thank you sir! [16:27] [TOPIC] Archive Admin help [16:27] New Topic: Archive Admin help [16:28] so there was a bit of a backlog for some Eucalyptus related work [16:28] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EucalyptusInMainSpec/Packages [16:28] thanks to james_w for helping [16:29] I'm just bringing it up for those with the AA "power" and who have some time to help [16:29] I think my eucalyptus-related time is better used completing the installer work [16:29] though I'm happy to do small reactive things on request [16:29] cjwatson: +100 [16:30] one man, 100 votes [16:30] AA - I'm confused, wasn't the backlog on the MIR side? [16:30] or are those sorted and we're on to component mismatches? [16:30] the MIR team asked for some archive admins to help out with the reviews [16:31] particularly for those packages that didn't come from Debian [16:31] oh [16:32] [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue [16:32] New Topic: Sponsorship Queue [16:32] everyone's favorite! [16:32] * mterry relaxes [16:33] more sponsoring ... please! [16:33] and please add yourselves to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews [16:33] thanks [16:33] :) dholbach has an IRC alert for 'sponsorship' [16:33] lol [16:33] I think it's just 'sposn' [16:33] mterry: coincidence :) [16:33] 'spons' [16:33] mdz watches the numbers like a hawk [16:34] which translates to emails to me...and you all get the rest [16:35] in a normal company we would say it flows downwards -- in Ubuntu, it's a floodfill algorithm? [16:35] heh [16:36] in a "normal" company, we would say the $#!t rolls downwards ;) [16:36] for the record, I actually tried to do some sponsorship this week [16:36] whoa! [16:36] but cjwatson had STOLEN the opportunity [16:36] sure....sure ;) [16:36] clearly he has too much free time on his hands ;) [16:36] [TOPIC] Good News [16:36] New Topic: Good News [16:37] so pick a different package :) [16:37] it was a package I was bug contact for and *everything* :D [16:37] Keybuk "tried" to do some sponsorship this week! [16:37] which, automake1.10? [16:37] aye [16:37] My first bzr-builddeb branch landed :) [16:37] whoohoo! [16:37] I was doing sponsorship in my calendar-reserved hour for sponsorship ;-) [16:38] * robbiew is REALLY close to an Austin, TX Platform sprint :P [16:38] speaking of events, do we have a definite location for UDS yet? [16:38] that's probably only good news to me :D [16:38] eh hem [16:38] the last two times I went to Austin, Global Bad Stuff happened [16:38] evand: "definitely not anywhere but one particular place, but not definitely there" :) [16:38] so, you know, pay up on those insurance premiums [16:38] lol [16:39] what happened? [16:39] good news: ucf should be a little less painful now [16:39] the first was 9-16 September 2001 [16:39] slangasek, oh? [16:39]