[00:10] <nhandler> #startmeeting
[00:10] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:10. The chair is nhandler.
[00:10] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[00:10] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:11] <nhandler> [TOPIC] Issuing the quiz to Padawans
[00:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Issuing the quiz to Padawans
[00:11] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Do you want to discuss this? Or should we defer it until bodhi is around?
[00:11] <Rocket2DMn> nhandler, we need to wait for bodhi on that one
[00:12] <nhandler> [AGREED] Wait to discuss Issuing the quiz to Padawans until bodhizazen is present
[00:12] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Wait to discuss Issuing the quiz to Padawans until bodhizazen is present
[00:12] <nhandler> [TOPIC AOT]
[00:12] <nhandler> [TOPIC] AOT
[00:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOT
[00:12] <nhandler> Any other Topics to discuss?
[00:13] <yvan300> why are we the only ones participating?
[00:13] <starcraftman> Don't really have anything to add....
[00:13] <pleia2> I'm here, nothing to add :)
[00:14] <y_lee> yeah same here
[00:14] <popey> me too
[00:14] <swoody> +1
[00:14] <Rocket2DMn> I't pretty typical for late summer to be slow
[00:14] <yvan300> ok
[00:15] <nhandler> If there are no other topics to discuss, I would like to give a status update about some outstanding actions that I have been working on
[00:15] <nhandler> [TOPIC] Status update on outstanding actions
[00:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status update on outstanding actions
[00:15] <nhandler> The ##beginners-classroom channel has now been dropped. All classroom sessions should take place in #ubuntu-beginners
[00:15] <yvan300> nhandler: what do you mean?
[00:16] <nhandler> yvan300: About what?
[00:16] <pleia2> nhandler: wow, not in -classroom anymore?
[00:16] <pleia2> er #ubuntu-classroom
[00:16] <popey> thats surprising
[00:16] <yvan300> nhandler: outstanding actions topic
[00:16] <nhandler> pleia2: That is what I meant, sorry
[00:16] <pleia2> oh good :)
[00:16] <popey> :)
[00:16] <popey> back to sleep pleia2 :)
[00:16] <popey> (and I)
[00:16] <pleia2> hehe
[00:16] <starcraftman> oh ok, sounds fine then.
[00:16] <nhandler> Thanks for catching that pleia2
[00:17] <pleia2> np
[00:17] <nhandler> yvan300: Outstanding actions are items from previous meeting that people were assigned to take care of
[00:17] <yvan300> nhandler: link
[00:17] <nhandler> yvan300: Meeting logs are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings and the Team Reports are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReports
[00:18] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:18] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReports
[00:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReports
[00:19] <nhandler> I have also made some progress on the new mailing lists. An RT request has been filed, and it has been assigned to the appropriate owner. I will continue to follow up with this to ensure the list gets created
[00:19] <nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to follow up on new mailing list creation
[00:19] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to follow up on new mailing list creation
[00:20] <Rocket2DMn> cool
[00:20] <nhandler> Since yvan300 has to go, lets do his membership vote
[00:20] <nhandler> [TOPIC] yvan300 membership
[00:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  yvan300 membership
[00:20] <nhandler> yvan300: Care to say a few words about yourself?
[00:21] <yvan300> well, i'm yvan pierre, a young lad who loves programming and helping others
[00:22] <nhandler> yvan300: What have you been doing with the Beginners Team?
[00:22] <yvan300> well since i began back in feburary, i spent my time getting to know the team, getting ck linked and helping other whenever i can in ubuntu-beginners-help
[00:24] <yvan300> i also became a part of ubuntu-beginners-ynu so that i can become a better, more polite person over the internet :P
[00:24] <nhandler> Anyone else have anything to say, or sould we vote?
[00:25] <Rocket2DMn> bring on the vote!
[00:25] <swoody> +1 Rocket2DMn
[00:25] <nhandler> [VOTE] Should yvan300 become a member of the Ubuntu Beginners Team?
[00:25] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Should yvan300 become a member of the Ubuntu Beginners Team?.
[00:25] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:25] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:25] <nhandler> +0
[00:25] <MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[00:25] <swoody> +1
[00:25] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:25] <tim_sharitt> +1
[00:26] <Rocket2DMn> +1
[00:26] <MootBot> +1 received from tim_sharitt. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:26] <MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:26] <y_lee> +1
[00:26] <MootBot> +1 received from y_lee. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:26] <starcraftman> +1
[00:26] <MootBot> +1 received from starcraftman. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:27] <nhandler> Any more votes?
[00:28] <pleia2> +1
[00:28] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:28] <nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
[00:28] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 6
[00:28] <nhandler> Congrats and welcome to the team yvan300 !
[00:28] <yvan300> nhandler: well met , and thanks everyone :D
[00:28] <Rocket2DMn> welcome yvan300 , good to have you on board
[00:28]  * starcraftman gives yvan300 his own personalized stuffed squirrel with nut gun as present!
[00:28] <y_lee> congrats yvan300
[00:29] <yvan300> thank you Rocket2DMn y_lee and tkanks for the squirrel starcraftman :P
[00:30] <nhandler> yvan300: You have been added to ~ubuntu-beginners on Launchpad. Be sure to subscribe to the mailing list. You will get voice in #ubuntu-beginners once someone with +f shows up. You are also entitled to a VoteBot factoid.
[00:30] <starcraftman> yvan300: your welcome, welcome aboard and have fun.
[00:30] <nhandler> [AGREED] yvan300 to join the Ubuntu Beginners Team
[00:30] <MootBot> AGREED received:  yvan300 to join the Ubuntu Beginners Team
[00:30] <starcraftman> now if only bodhi magically appeared, like when I mention Rocket2DMn....
[00:31] <nhandler> So, anything else to discuss tonight?
[00:31] <yvan300> nhandler: ok, i'm gonna check it out now, but anyway i have to go , may be back later, nite team :P
[00:31] <swoody> bye yvan300 and welcome again :)
[00:31] <nhandler> Good night yvan300, and congratulations!
[00:31]  * Rocket2DMn appears
[00:31] <yvan300> o/
[00:32] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: hehe, ya can't appear if ya didn't dissapear first.... then its not magic!
[00:32] <nhandler> Are there any FGs that have anything to share with the team?
[00:34] <nhandler> Last call for anyone with topics to discuss. Otherwise, we will end this meeting.
[00:35] <Rocket2DMn> i think thats it, thanks for hosting nhandler
[00:35] <swoody> o/
[00:35] <nhandler> Go ahead swoody
[00:35] <swoody> was there something we needed bodhi here for? Are we going to restart the meeting if he does come online?
[00:36] <nhandler> swoody: Rocket2DMn's agenda item needed bodhi. We will not restart the meeting though if he shows up later. We will just defer the item until the next meeting
[00:36] <swoody> ok sounds good :)
[00:37] <starcraftman> LOL!
[00:37] <nhandler> Ah, here is bodhi_zazen now ;)
[00:37] <swoody> haha
[00:37] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Want to do your agenda item?
[00:37] <Rocket2DMn> ah, he mad eit
[00:37] <Rocket2DMn> sure
[00:37] <nhandler> [TOPIC] Issuing the quiz to Padawans
[00:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  Issuing the quiz to Padawans
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> 'lo all
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> can't stay long =)
[00:38] <Rocket2DMn> I think the general consensus is that BT members want padawans to continue to be given the ritual quiz
[00:39] <Rocket2DMn> if bodhi_zazen wants to share his list of questions with some others authorized to give the quiz, that would take some burden off of him
[00:39] <bodhi_zazen> orly ?
[00:39] <nhandler> By "authorized", who did you have in mind Rocket2DMn ?
[00:40] <Rocket2DMn> idk nhandler , whoever bodhi_zazen wants.  It doesn't have to be the council
[00:42] <starcraftman> Well I'd have an opinion if I actually saw the quiz. In general, I've never thought quizes to be that essential though, usually its not hard to tell when people meet set requirements for membership.
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> well, I think the current process of mentoring is best
[00:43] <Rocket2DMn> starcraftman, it's just sort of a rite of passage :)
[00:43] <bodhi_zazen> I think it would be ideal if members would help the new ones integrate into the team
[00:43] <swoody> +1 bodhi_zazen
[00:43] <Rocket2DMn> agreed bodhi_zazen , but it would still be good to use the quiz to see how much people actually know
[00:43] <bodhi_zazen> if that is happening the quiz is almost unnecessary, as it really does not add much
[00:44] <swoody> I think a mentor would have a much better feel about a new candidate than a quiz could give us
[00:44] <starcraftman> bodhi_zazen: I'm wiht you on mentoring being more important, as I mentioned in the UA meeting I think it could be improved a bit.
[00:44] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: The quiz rarely ended up testing knowledge. It almost always tested personality. Although, we could change that
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> some members (mentors) have been kind enough to review posts on the forms, review wiki pages, etc
[00:44] <Rocket2DMn> nhandler, equally important :)
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> If the mentoring program can not be revised we need to re consider much, the whole membership process, re-writing wiki pages , etc
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> so it is not a small decision
[00:47] <Rocket2DMn> ok, well i didnt mean for this to be a discussion about the whole membership process
[00:47] <Rocket2DMn> I dont think the quiz and Padawan system are mutually exclusive, I think the system works great
[00:48] <Rocket2DMn> I just didnt want the quiz to fall by the wayside, as it's been tradition for as long as I've been around
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> I thought we decided to abandon the quiz
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> If not, it is easy to do
[00:49] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: Well nobody gave to me.
[00:49] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: We dropped it as a requirement for membership
[00:49] <bodhi_zazen> I can post the questions if you would like
[00:49] <bodhi_zazen> who would like to dish it out ?
[00:49] <nhandler> Should it be another individual? Or a team/FG ?
[00:49] <bodhi_zazen> that's pretty much abandoning it nhandler =)
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> nhandler: before we go there we would need to decide to bring the quiz back
[00:51] <Rocket2DMn> starcraftman, i know, but we're all well aware about your skill level
[00:51] <nhandler> [VOTE] Should we revive the quiz?
[00:51] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Should we revive the quiz?.
[00:51] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:51] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:51] <Rocket2DMn> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:51] <bodhi_zazen> 0
[00:52] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: +0
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> +0
[00:52] <MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:52] <nhandler> +1
[00:52] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:52] <y_lee> +1
[00:52] <MootBot> +1 received from y_lee. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:52] <starcraftman> +0
[00:52] <MootBot> Abstention received from starcraftman. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:52] <swoody> +1
[00:52] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:52] <Snova> +0
[00:52] <MootBot> Abstention received from Snova. 4 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:53] <nhandler> Any more votes?
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> No clear direction there, a trend =)
[00:54] <nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
[00:54] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 4
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> masters can let me know when people are ready for a little quiz then
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> anyone interested in administering the quiz, let me know
[00:55] <nhandler> Maybe we could discuss this on the mailing list?
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> I would probably like to watch one or two =)
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> mailing list is all but dead =)
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> almost no one uses it for "discussion"
[00:55] <nhandler> Then send something to it and make it active ;)
[00:55] <starcraftman> hehe
[00:55] <nhandler> The few discussions we have had got pretty good responses
[00:55] <nhandler> People are just hesitant to start them
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> If you like
[00:56] <Snova> I have a few things I would say, but nothing I can say immediately; I shall probably post something later.
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> I am going to have to run
[00:56] <Rocket2DMn> mailing lists dont have to be extremely active to be useful :)
[00:56] <starcraftman> later bodhi_zazen
[00:56] <Rocket2DMn> thanks bodhi_zazen , see you later
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> My only issue is to see they mentoring program revitalized
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> I think that is much more important, really
[00:57] <starcraftman> bodhi_zazen: agreed.
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> IMO the quiz is secondary
[00:57] <Rocket2DMn> agreed
[00:57] <nhandler> Would someone like to take the action to start some discussion about this topic on the ML ?
[00:57] <Rocket2DMn> is it needed nhandler ?
[00:57] <Rocket2DMn> i can if you want
[00:57] <nhandler> I think we should get some more discussion on this topic
[00:58] <nhandler> Thanks Rocket2DMn
[00:58] <nhandler> [ACTION] Rocket2DMn to start discussion on mailing list about quiz/mentoring program
[00:58] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Rocket2DMn to start discussion on mailing list about quiz/mentoring program
[00:58] <nhandler> Anything else to talk about, or can we end the meeting?
[00:58] <starcraftman> nhandler: I'll add too later, I just remembered an idea I had at UA meeting. Sometime, wanna relax a bit first....
[01:00] <nhandler> Ok, thanks for coming everyone. The next meeting will take place on Tuesday, September 8, 2009 at 23:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
[01:00] <nhandler> [ENDMEETING]
[01:00] <nhandler> #ENDMEETING
[01:00] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:00.
[01:00] <starcraftman> thanks for chairing nhandler, appreciated of course :)
[16:00] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
[16:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:00]  * slangasek waves
[16:00] <james_w> hi
[16:00] <al-maisan> hello
[16:00] <liw> yo
[16:00]  * mvo waves
[16:01] <evand> hi
[16:02] <robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0826#Agenda
[16:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0826#Agenda
[16:02] <robbiew> cjwatson: Keybuk: around?
[16:03] <Keybuk> yup
[16:04] <cjwatson> hi
[16:04] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Karmic Feature Freeze Exceptions
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Feature Freeze Exceptions
[16:04] <robbiew> who needs'em?
[16:04] <mvo> I will need one for app-center
[16:04] <mvo> eh, software-store
[16:04] <Keybuk> do I need them if I set the spec for beta in the first place? :)
[16:04] <mvo> (thats the new name)
[16:05] <robbiew> mvo: heh...no hyphen (-)
[16:05] <robbiew> Keybuk: uh, I believe so
[16:05] <mvo> and maybe for compiz, there is rumor of a new upstream release (0.8.4)
[16:05] <robbiew> mvo: why are you still doing compiz?
[16:05] <Keybuk> robbiew: then I'll file bugs like last time ;-)
[16:05] <cjwatson> I uploaded an initial version of cloud installer support to the archive today; it's quite incomplete in some ways, specifically it doesn't yet generate the preseed file for the node. However, it does have the basic avahi stuff in place
[16:05] <robbiew> Keybuk: ack
[16:05] <mvo> robbiew: don't ask
[16:06] <robbiew> cjwatson: okay
[16:06] <robbiew> mvo: hmmm
[16:06]  * robbiew will take compiz stuff offline
[16:06] <cjwatson> on GRUB2, I'm still working with upstream on some of the backward compat details (specifically making sure that it doesn't completely break people who forgot to run grub-install after update-grub); it's looking very promising though, and if the remaining bits are considered a feature I'd like an exception for them
[16:06] <james_w> might need one to get the last of the new launchpadlib in place, blocked on python-oauth being suitable for main
[16:07] <james_w> plus, bzr
[16:07] <mvo> robbiew: seriously, there is some stuff in git that looks pretty useful, fixes and the infamouse crasher that has so many dupes that it makes LP timeout :)
[16:07] <cjwatson> upstream would like us to get the grub 1.97 release into karmic if at all possible; I'll upload a fresh snapshot before feature freeze, and from then on it should be primarily bug fixes
[16:07] <cjwatson> a current snapshot will have some basic auth support, which I know is a requirement from some quarters
[16:07] <robbiew> mvo: sure...I just think the desktop team should handle it...but I'm fine with you helping, if it doesn't impact other work ;)
[16:07] <mvo> *cough*
[16:07] <robbiew> james_w: ack
[16:08] <robbiew> cjwatson: okay...thnx
[16:08] <slangasek> cjwatson: are we going to be pulling in grub2 by default on upgrade to karmic?  I thought that was planned at UDS, but would've expected it to land by now if so
[16:09] <cjwatson> slangasek: I thought we explicitly decided against that
[16:09] <slangasek> hmm, not what I had remembered :)
[16:09] <slangasek> but ok
[16:09] <james_w> I also have the MIR and seed changes for kerneloops to complete once it's out of binary NEW
[16:09] <cjwatson> the spec is fairly explicit about this
[16:09] <slangasek> (we spent an awful lot of time in that session spec'ing out how to make the upgrade flawless)
[16:10] <cjwatson> the upgrade is relatively smooth, and that's a useful feature, but I don't think that implies that we should inflict it on everyone
[16:10] <robbiew> +1
[16:10] <robbiew> imho, it's a bit dangerous to simply force folks
[16:11] <cjwatson> Kickstart: preseedable LVM-on-RAID is done and will land today as soon as the sync is available from Debian, and that's by far the most useful bit; I'm fighting with adding RAID support to Kickstart as well, and think I should have that done by FF
[16:11] <cjwatson> I would like to defer iSCSI support in Kickstart, sorry
[16:12] <slangasek> I may be biased having dealt with update-grub, but I disagree there :)
[16:12] <robbiew> cjwatson: no problem on the deferal
[16:12] <cjwatson> I know update-grub is horrible, but it basically works for several million people
[16:13] <robbiew> is there a way to ask people during a dist upgrade if they want to keep grub or switch to grub2?
[16:13] <cjwatson> I'd like to consider that in karmic+1
[16:13] <james_w> oh yeah, slangasek feature freeze is midnight tonight, is that correct?
[16:13] <cjwatson> the only way would really be extra UI in update-manager
[16:13] <robbiew> ok
[16:14] <slangasek> james_w: yes
[16:14] <james_w> cool
[16:14] <evand> one debconf question closer to becoming Debian :)
[16:14] <cjwatson> well, or maybe have grub legacy depend on grub2 and ask a debconf question
[16:14] <cjwatson> but honestly I'd rather not muck about with it now
[16:14] <robbiew> I'm just thinking that the boot experience work relies heavily on grub2 being installed
[16:15] <mvo> python-packaging> other than some talk with debian I have not put a lot of work into it, there is some proposal work on the debian side, I hope we can use that. in the meantime we should change the crritial stuff to use DH_PYCENTRAL=include-links
[16:15] <cjwatson> it's much more of a priority for that to work perfectly on fresh installs, isn't it?
[16:15] <cjwatson> maybe computer-janitor could offer to switch things over ...?
[16:15] <slangasek> priorities> agreed, certainly
[16:15] <robbiew> yep...not worried about it...just making a note
[16:15] <robbiew> we can simply include something in the release notes about it
[16:15] <slangasek> I was just confused becuase the spec didn't match how I remembered the outcome of the session
[16:16] <robbiew> cjwatson: hmm...that's a good idea
[16:16] <robbiew> liw: ?
[16:16] <liw> cjwatson, janitor suggesting grub2 if grub is installed: that should work fine
[16:16] <robbiew> slangasek: stay off the drugs
[16:16] <robbiew> lol
[16:16] <cjwatson> if I misremembered the session while writing the notes, well, that's possible and if so I'm sorry - but at this point it's an error that was left to stand for several months, and so (as you say) it really ought to have landed by now already
[16:16] <liw> cjwatson, it'd be easy to do, if it's enough to just install the grub2 package -- is that enough?
[16:17] <cjwatson> liw: there's a post-reboot step, which is a little non-trivial
[16:17] <cjwatson> you install grub2 (actually grub-pc), do a test reboot which chainloads through grub to grub2, and if that worked you run upgrade-from-grub-legacy
[16:17] <robbiew> evand: before I forget, will you need an FFE for the Migration Assistant stuff?
[16:17] <liw> cjwatson, hm, then it's not so easy, but let's discuss that later
[16:17] <cjwatson> ideally, the last ought to be hooked up to a notification or something
[16:18] <evand> robbiew: I'm actually keen to defer that.  I don't think it's feasible to get it in reasonable enough shape, and get it tested by release, while making sure my others specs don't suffer as a result.
[16:18] <mvo> sounds like we want a post-upgrade hook for this
[16:18] <robbiew> [ACTION] liw and cjwatson to discuss possibility of moving users to grub2 via computer janitor
[16:18] <MootBot> ACTION received:  liw and cjwatson to discuss possibility of moving users to grub2 via computer janitor
[16:19] <robbiew> evand: no problem...deferred! ;)
[16:19] <robbiew> [ACTION] robbiew to defer Migration Assistant
[16:19] <MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to defer Migration Assistant
[16:19] <evand> everything else is in good shape and either in place or awaiting archive processing.
[16:19] <robbiew> cool
[16:20] <robbiew> slangasek: Multiarch Support....I feel a deferral coming :P
[16:20] <slangasek> "ask again later"
[16:20] <robbiew> lol
[16:20] <Keybuk> slangasek: but it's FF today! :D
[16:20] <mterry> :)
[16:21] <slangasek> there's still slow progress; I don't have a sense yet of whether it's going to come together in time, because development is so bursty
[16:21] <robbiew> I think we gave it a week (or two) past FF
[16:21] <slangasek> I have a bit that I'm working on for dpkg right now which I hope to get to guillem today/tomorrow
[16:21] <robbiew> so I'll keep asking ;)
[16:21] <slangasek> yeah :)
[16:21] <slangasek> but the bit I'm working on is a relatively small piece
[16:21] <robbiew> mvo: is there anything waiting on us for the Distribution Upgrade Testing work by the QA team?
[16:22] <slangasek> we're still missing, um... the database changes to handle multiple arch packages, and the dep resolver changes to DTRT with multiarch packages
[16:22] <mvo> robbiew: I'm not aware of anythin
[16:22] <mvo> g
[16:22] <robbiew> mvo: cool
[16:23] <robbiew> Keybuk: have you even looked at the RAM /tmpfs stuff? :P
[16:23] <Keybuk> robbiew: yes
[16:23] <robbiew> oh..cool
[16:23] <Keybuk> and I uncovered pretty serious bugs in the kernel's virtual memory system
[16:23] <Keybuk> that made me want to go away and hide
[16:23] <robbiew> lol
[16:24] <Keybuk> it looks like they'll be fixed for .32 or .33 or so
[16:24] <Keybuk> RAM /tmpfs depends on growable swap, which depends on swapfiles, etc.
[16:24] <cjwatson> what were the bugs?
[16:24] <Keybuk> it turns out that the kernel has some major issues when it nears the top of available virtual memory
[16:24] <Keybuk> cjwatson: kernel refuses to sacrifice any page cache
[16:24] <robbiew> translation: deferred!
[16:24] <robbiew> lol
[16:24] <Keybuk> kernel refuses to swap contents of tmpfs
[16:25] <robbiew> Keybuk: do you have bug numbers for the kernel stuff?
[16:25] <Keybuk> if you have a swap file, kernel goes into a loop of paging things in and out of it
[16:25] <Keybuk> if you don't have a swap file, kernel OOMs just about every process
[16:25] <Keybuk> and for luck, it often PANICs
[16:25] <cjwatson> oh, lovely
[16:25] <Keybuk> robbiew: lkml posts
[16:25] <cjwatson> yeah, I'm in no rush to tickle that kind of bug
[16:26] <robbiew> Keybuk: cool...I'll go and look...or you can send me a pointer ;)
[16:27] <Keybuk> robbiew: will dig up the discussion
[16:27] <robbiew> thank you sir!
[16:27] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Archive Admin help
[16:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Archive Admin help
[16:28] <robbiew> so there was a bit of a backlog for some Eucalyptus related work
[16:28] <robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EucalyptusInMainSpec/Packages
[16:28] <robbiew> thanks to james_w for helping
[16:29] <robbiew> I'm just bringing it up for those with the AA "power" and who have some time to help
[16:29] <cjwatson> I think my eucalyptus-related time is better used completing the installer work
[16:29] <cjwatson> though I'm happy to do small reactive things on request
[16:29] <robbiew> cjwatson: +100
[16:30] <cjwatson> one man, 100 votes
[16:30] <slangasek> AA - I'm confused, wasn't the backlog on the MIR side?
[16:30] <slangasek> or are those sorted and we're on to component mismatches?
[16:30] <cjwatson> the MIR team asked for some archive admins to help out with the reviews
[16:31] <cjwatson> particularly for those packages that didn't come from Debian
[16:31] <slangasek> oh
[16:32] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
[16:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
[16:32] <robbiew> everyone's favorite!
[16:32]  * mterry relaxes
[16:33] <dholbach> more sponsoring ... please!
[16:33] <dholbach> and please add yourselves to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews
[16:33] <dholbach> thanks
[16:33] <mterry> :)  dholbach has an IRC alert for 'sponsorship'
[16:33] <robbiew> lol
[16:33] <slangasek> I think it's just 'sposn'
[16:33] <dholbach> mterry: coincidence :)
[16:33] <slangasek> 'spons'
[16:33] <robbiew> mdz watches the numbers like a hawk
[16:34] <robbiew> which translates to emails to me...and you all get the rest
[16:35] <liw> in a normal company we would say it flows downwards -- in Ubuntu, it's a floodfill algorithm?
[16:35] <robbiew> heh
[16:36] <robbiew> in a "normal" company, we would say the $#!t rolls downwards ;)
[16:36] <Keybuk> for the record, I actually tried to do some sponsorship this week
[16:36] <robbiew> whoa!
[16:36] <Keybuk> but cjwatson had STOLEN the opportunity
[16:36] <robbiew> sure....sure ;)
[16:36] <Keybuk> clearly he has too much free time on his hands ;)
[16:36] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News
[16:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
[16:37] <cjwatson> so pick a different package :)
[16:37] <Keybuk> it was a package I was bug contact for and *everything* :D
[16:37] <robbiew> Keybuk "tried" to do some sponsorship this week!
[16:37] <cjwatson> which, automake1.10?
[16:37] <Keybuk> aye
[16:37] <al-maisan> My first bzr-builddeb branch landed :)
[16:37] <robbiew> whoohoo!
[16:37] <cjwatson> I was doing sponsorship in my calendar-reserved hour for sponsorship ;-)
[16:38]  * robbiew is REALLY close to an Austin, TX Platform sprint :P
[16:38] <evand> speaking of events, do we have a definite location for UDS yet?
[16:38] <robbiew> that's probably only good news to me :D
[16:38] <robbiew> eh hem
[16:38] <cjwatson> the last two times I went to Austin, Global Bad Stuff happened
[16:38] <Keybuk> evand: "definitely not anywhere but one particular place, but not definitely there" :)
[16:38] <cjwatson> so, you know, pay up on those insurance premiums
[16:38] <evand> lol
[16:39] <evand> what happened?
[16:39] <slangasek> good news: ucf should be a little less painful now
[16:39] <cjwatson> the first was 9-16 September 2001
[16:39] <liw> slangasek, oh?
[16:39] <cjwatson> the second was when Bush gave his ultimatum to Iraq
[16:39] <mvo> slangasek: wehhh - that is great news
[16:39] <mterry> cjwatson, stay away
[16:39] <slangasek> Keybuk: have you sponsored the bug that's in the sponsorship queue and has been assigned to you since March? :)
[16:39] <Keybuk> slangasek: there's a bug assigned to me? :)
[16:40] <slangasek> liw: three-way-merge failure: debconf prompt, then drop back to menu, instead of exit !0
[16:40] <slangasek> Keybuk: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpid/+bug/285531
[16:40] <cjwatson> your last comment is "
[16:40] <cjwatson> Sorry, missed this one being assigned to me - will look in karmic
[16:40]  * mvo hugs slangasek
[16:40] <cjwatson> "
[16:40] <robbiew> FEEL THE LOVE!
[16:40] <Keybuk> slangasek: nope ;-)
[16:40]  * slangasek snorts
[16:41] <slangasek> Keybuk: oh, "nope" you haven't sponsored it, rather than "nope" it's not assigned to you... ok :)
[16:41] <Keybuk> wow, I can actually view my LP bugs page today
[16:41] <liw> slangasek, that _is_ good news
[16:41] <cjwatson> slangasek: ucf> that's excellent
[16:41] <Keybuk> it's been doing TIMEOUT ERROR! for days
[16:41] <cjwatson> ucf is still used for grub2, btw, just not for the whole configuration file
[16:41] <Keybuk> do we even still use acpid? :)
[16:41] <liw> my best attempt at good news is that I have looked at C++ code and I am not entirely crazxze5rqw34wvqw345234
[16:42] <slangasek> yeah, there were lots of other bug reports about this bit of ucf badness happening with other packages
[16:42] <cjwatson> acpid is no longer installed by default, but it was installed by default up to jaunty
[16:42] <slangasek> Keybuk: sadly, until we can completely rid ourselves of acpi-support, yes
[16:42] <slangasek> cjwatson: no, acpi-support still pulls it in
[16:42] <cjwatson> or is it still?
[16:42] <slangasek> it's just not seeded
[16:42] <cjwatson> bah
[16:42] <cjwatson> the installer no longer has explicit code to separately install it by default, then :-)
[16:42] <slangasek> right :)
[16:43] <robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[16:43] <robbiew> cjwatson: could you hit "submit" on your objectives...so I can avoid HR nastygrams :P
[16:44] <cjwatson> oh, sorry, I forgot that was on me
[16:44] <robbiew> no worries
[16:44] <cjwatson> wilco
[16:44] <robbiew> anything else?
[16:44] <robbiew> once....
[16:44] <robbiew> twice....
[16:44] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:45] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:44.
[16:45] <robbiew> thanks!
[16:45] <james_w> thanks all
[16:45] <Keybuk> cjwatson: you *so* wouldn't say "wilco" there :-)
[16:45] <al-maisan> Thank you!
[16:45] <mvo> thanks
[16:45] <slangasek> thanks, all
[16:45] <evand> thanks
[16:46] <liw> thanks
[16:47] <cjwatson> Keybuk: roger that
[16:48]  * Keybuk sighs and hands cjwatson a copy of http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/cap413.pdf
[16:48] <cjwatson> simply means "will comply", no?
[16:49] <Keybuk> yeah, but when given an instruction you read back the instruction
 "G-VT holding alpha, ready for departure"
 "G-VT take off at your discretion"
 "take off G-VT"
[16:49] <Keybuk> etc.
[16:50] <Keybuk> and I'm just being a tiring geek pedant for amusment purposes ;-)
[16:51] <Keybuk> wilco is more for replying to suggestions or requests
[18:00] <marjo> #startmeeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is marjo.
[18:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:00] <marjo> Hi folks!
[18:00] <pedro_> hello everybody!
[18:00] <davmor2> hello
[18:00] <marjo> Agenda
[18:00] <marjo> Ubuntu Bug Day - Pedor
[18:01] <marjo> Pedro
[18:01] <marjo> SRU testing - sbeattie
[18:01] <bdmurray> Hi
[18:01]  * fader waves
[18:01] <sbeattie> Hey
[18:01] <pedro_> I have a short announcement too, forgot to add it to the agenda
[18:01] <marjo> OK
[18:02] <marjo> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Bug Day - Pedro
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Bug Day - Pedro
[18:02] <pedro_> Last week we celebrated a bug day based on Rhythmbox: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090820
[18:03] <pedro_> ~53 bugs were triaged , thanks a lot to Kamus and Scifly for their work
[18:03] <pedro_> and continuing with the multimedia apps
[18:04] <pedro_> Tomorrow we are going to have a bug day based on Totem: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090827
[18:04] <pedro_> so again if you have some time during the day please join us and help your lovely Ubuntu project ;-)
[18:05] <bdmurray> pedro_: speaking of totem have you seen many symptom based bug reports come in?
[18:06] <pedro_> bdmurray, mm nop
[18:07] <marjo> anything else Pedro?
[18:07] <davmor2> bdmurray: to be fair though I've found totem in karmic to be pretty stable.
[18:07] <pedro_> marjo, nope that's all from me
[18:07] <bdmurray> dang! ;-)
[18:07] <marjo> [TOPIC] SRU testing - sbeattie
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing - sbeattie
[18:08] <sbeattie> SRU activity over the past week has been pretty light, probably due to vacations and the rush for karmic's feature freeze.
[18:08] <sbeattie> SRU Activity for the past week (since 2009-08-19):
[18:08] <sbeattie> * jaunty: 4 new -proposed packages (gitosis, packagekit-gnome, tzdata, zabbix), 1 pushed to -updates (tzdata)
[18:08] <sbeattie> * intrepid: 1 new -proposed package (tzdata), also pushed to updates, kernel for intrepid-proposed is pending
[18:08] <sbeattie> * hardy: 5 new -proposed packages (compiz-fusion-bcop, ganeti, linux, tzdata, zabbix), 1 pushed to -updates (tzdata)
[18:08] <sbeattie> * dapper: 1 new -proposed package (langpack-locales), also pushed to -updates (same timezone issue as tzdata packages)
[18:08] <sbeattie> Thanks to sothis, Benjamin Geer, and Tico for testing SRU fixes this week.
[18:09] <sbeattie> As always, help in testing out SRU fixes in the various -proposed pockets would be appreciated.
[18:09] <marjo> Thx sbeattie; anything else?
[18:10] <sbeattie> That's it on the SRU front.
[18:10] <marjo> pedro: you had an announcement to make?
[18:10] <pedro_> ah yes just a quick one
[18:11] <pedro_> this Friday - August 28th Daniel T Chen (dtchen) is going to give a talk about How to Triage Sounds Bugs on Ubuntu
[18:11] <bdmurray> great!
[18:11] <davmor2> pedro_: where?
[18:11] <pedro_> time? 2200 UTC at #ubuntu-classroom
[18:12] <pedro_> http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/node/64
[18:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/node/64
[18:12] <pedro_> i know that a few people is suffering audio issues with Karmic, so it might be worth to go there and learn more about the audio stack
[18:12] <pedro_> and what the developers are looking in order to fix those bugs, etc
[18:12] <marjo> thx Pedro; anything else
[18:13] <Daviey> #ubuntu-classroom
[18:13] <pedro_> marjo, that was it :-)
[18:13] <marjo> [TOPIC] Any other topics from anyone?
[18:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other topics from anyone?
[18:13] <bdmurray> I wanted to mention something
[18:14] <marjo> ok
[18:14] <bdmurray> I added a script to ubuntu bugpatterns called search bugs which allows you to run a pattern against a package bug list
[18:14] <bdmurray> This is useful for cleaning up duplicates after the pattern has been written
[18:15] <pedro_> great!
[18:15] <marjo> thx bdmurray; anything else?
[18:15] <bdmurray> I've done quite a few but there are a few duplicates of some of the kernel patterns that could use some cleanup.
[18:16] <bdmurray> marjo: that's all
[18:16] <sbeattie> bdmurray: awesome, that sounds quite useful.
[18:16] <marjo> any other new topics?
[18:17] <marjo> ok folks, if no other topics, we're done
[18:17] <marjo> thx for attending & see you next time!
[18:17] <marjo> #endmeeting
[18:17] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:17.
[18:17] <pedro_> thanks!
[18:17] <davmor2> thanks bye
[19:44] <trinium> 1
[20:23] <pigflu> -_-