[00:03] <bazhang> Arnold, how may we help you
[00:03] <Arnold> I dunno I just came in her to see what was up
[00:04] <genii> !idle
[00:04] <bazhang> Arnold, this is a no idle channel, if you dont have an issue please part the channel
[00:05] <Arnold> I have many issues but I hate sounding like a broken record
[00:05] <Arnold> Who are the ops in here for #linux
[00:05] <bazhang> Arnold, what is the issue
[00:05] <bazhang> Arnold, this is for #ubuntu channels only.
[00:06] <Arnold> hmmm
[00:06] <Arnold> How much longer til my bans in #ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic go away?
[00:09] <genii> @btlogin
[00:09] <Arnold> what?
[00:10] <bazhang> Arnold, no time soon.
[00:10] <Arnold> I didn't think so, they're permanent aren't they?
[00:10] <bazhang> very few are permanent.
[00:11] <bazhang> exhibit some mature/responsible behaviour and they may be reviewed.
[00:11] <Arnold> How can I do that in those channels when I am banned
[00:11] <genii> Arnold: They are in place until the op which banned you unbans or another op reviews it,checks with original op who banned and then unbans
[00:12] <Arnold> Who actually banned me in those two channels?
[00:12] <bazhang> Arnold, you need to /msg those operators and get unbanned, then stay out of trouble/stop trolling incessantly, asking for trolling tips etc
[00:12] <Arnold> that wasnt me
[00:13] <bazhang> Arnold, sure it was. please dont idle here.
[00:13] <Arnold> Who banned me in those two channels
[00:16]  * genii pokes at Flannel
[00:17] <Arnold> Flannel did huh
[00:17] <genii> Arnold: They aren't here currently. Try again later
[00:18]  * genii makes more coffee
[00:18] <nalioth> arnold is bearshare
[00:20] <genii> Hm
[00:21] <bazhang> also J_dahmer , smis , and jw_gacy iirc
[00:37] <Flannel> just search for bilok
[00:37]  * Flannel still isn't here, by the way.
[00:39] <genii> heh
[00:42] <genii> I gather ther is some kind of history there with Flannel/bilok (or whatever they call themselves now)
[00:48] <Flannel> I don't believe so.
[00:48] <Flannel> Actually, I'm not the one who banned him most recently either
[00:48] <Flannel> but, check the BT for bilok, you'll have plenty of reading material
[00:48]  * genii gets a coffee tray ready for his bed
[00:53]  * nalioth buys genii an intravenous coffee infuser
[00:53] <genii> Woohoo!
[00:55]  * mneptok fills it with decaf
[00:56] <genii> damn!
[00:59]  * genii sips
[02:53]  * Pici goes back to vacation-mode
[03:25] <mnaines> Why is it I can't talk to an admin without the admin being biased or narrow-minded?
[03:25] <nalioth> mnaines: after that little bit, probably not here
[03:26] <mnaines> nalioth: Well, I have no other place to talk about it...Flannel is being temperamental as usual and now he's threatening to ban me from the Ubuntu-offtopic
[03:26] <mnaines> Someone needs to put him on a leash and send someone less biased to admin that room
[03:26] <nalioth> starting out civilly is a plus
[03:27] <mnaines> I am trying to start out civilly, but I feel I won't get a civil conversation unless I can talk to someone who is open-minded and unbiased
[03:28] <nalioth> 2but your first utterance slaps us all in the face
[03:29] <mnaines> nalioth: Well, when all of you are as obsessed with the rules as Flannel is, its kinda hard to make me believe any conversation I have with you will be civil and clean
[03:29] <Flannel> mnaines: I threatened to ban you from -ot?
[03:30] <mnaines> I asked Flannel about the appeals process, but I decided against filing an appeal because I feel I won't get a fair chance because everyone sides with Flannel and is as obsessed about the rules as he is
[03:31] <nalioth> mnaines: so we're not supposed to follow the rules?
[03:32] <mnaines> nalioth: I'm not saying that...What I'm saying is I disagree with the whole idea that the rules are more important than making sure people get the help they need
[03:32] <nalioth> mnaines: the rules are in place to ensure that folks _do_ get the help they need
[03:32] <nalioth> if we're going over the DSL situation from t'other day, it's been covered enough.
[03:32] <mnaines> And after talking to the admins in here, that obsession that the rules are more important than anything else makes me feel I won't get a fair chance at an appeal
[03:33] <mnaines> nalioth: Its not that...I came in here now to appeal the banishment Flannel did to me from Ubuntu, but I feel I won't get a fair chance at an appeal because you guys all side with him and his way of thinking
[03:34] <mnaines> None of you are willing to question him and that's why I feel that way
[03:34] <nalioth> mnaines: i see you enjoying -offtopic and then suddenly start trolling Flannel
[03:34] <nalioth> probably related to the DSL incident
[03:35] <nalioth> which we've discussed
[03:35] <mnaines> No...I went into -offtopic after getting banned from Ubuntu and went on a rant about different topics, but many ops got fed up with my inane chatter
[03:36] <mnaines> I first rambled on about my hatred of Windows and two ops sat there complaining
[03:36] <mnaines> Then I changed the topic to politics and started bashing America and they began getting angry
[03:37] <nalioth> well, politics is off topic in #ubuntu-* channels
[03:38] <mnaines> I tried to keep it non-o4o as much as I could, and I even had the people I was talking to say it was hard for them to do the same
[03:38] <mnaines> But one of the people I talked to was from another country and he actually agreed with most of the things I was saying
[03:39] <mnaines> During that discussion, the topic changed from politics to how lazy Americans are and how bad their diets are
[03:39] <mnaines> I still bashed America, but in a different way
[03:40] <nalioth> what are you here for, presently?  I'm not seeing any new issues being brought up.
[03:40] <mnaines> nalioth: I came here to appeal my banishment from Ubuntu, but I feel the ops here are too biased and that you all will side with Flannel and for those reasons I feel I won't get a fair chance at an appeal
[03:41] <nalioth> mnaines: flannel enforces the rules.  We all do.  Do you think you should be "special" and not have the rules apply to you?
[03:42] <mnaines> nalioth: No, I'm saying the ops should police each other as much as they police the rooms
[03:42] <nalioth> we do.
[03:42] <mnaines> Doesn't seem like it...It just seems to me like you all are siding with Flannel
[03:43] <mnaines> You haven't even asked him his side of the story yet
[03:43] <nalioth> mnaines: get this in your head:  flannel is not out of order here.  you are.  The rules you keep bringing up were discussed with you previously, and I see no reason to rehash that chat.
[03:44] <mnaines> nalioth: So I can't appeal my banishment?
[03:45] <nalioth> mnaines: you have been doing so.
[03:45] <mnaines> Talking to Flannel is like talking to a wall...Nothing I say to him seems to make any sense
[03:45] <Flannel> mnaines: Earlier you were told to come back in two days to discuss it once you've had some time to think.  It's suggested you do so.
[03:46] <mnaines> Well, I have considered your suggestion and decided not to heed it...
[03:46] <mnaines> I am back now...Whether you like it or not
[03:47] <mnaines> We can either discuss this as gentlemen in an unbiased and professional way or we can both leave IRC
[03:48] <nalioth> mnaines: there is nothing to discuss.  you broke the rules of the channel and got sanctioned.
[03:48] <mnaines> nalioth: I am simply trying to appeal my case with him...Can't I do that?
[03:48] <Flannel> mnaines: We'll revisit your ban when you come back in two days.
[03:49] <nalioth> mnaines: unless i'm having a surprise MPD episode, I think you're talking to me
[03:49] <mnaines> nalioth: Yes, and you see why I am talking to you...As I told you earlier, talking to flannel is like talking to a wall
[03:50] <mnaines> nalioth: He doesn't want to listen, so I am talking to you hoping you will listen
[03:51] <mnaines> nalioth: But it seems as if you are as biased as Flannel is
[03:51] <nalioth> mnaines: we are going in circles here.
[03:51] <nalioth> you broke the channel rules.
[03:51] <nalioth> you got sanctioned.
[03:51] <nalioth> you are not "special"
[03:52] <mnaines> nalioth: Neither are the ops
[03:52] <Pici> I think you misunderstand the meaning of an appeal. It does not mean that your ban will be reversed, it means that someone else will look at the situation and see if you were treated fairly.
[03:52] <nalioth> if you have nothing further, mnaines, please respect our /topic
[03:52] <mnaines> Pici: then why call it an appeal?
[03:52] <nalioth> mnaines: because in some cases, the ops _are_ wrong
[03:52] <nalioth> but not this one.
[03:53] <mnaines> nalioth: Seems like everywhere I go, people in positions of authority are allowed to get away with everything...It happens a lot IRL where I live
[03:54] <mnaines> Like, for example, I got a traffic ticket for turning into the outside lane AFTER the cop who turned in front of me did it himself
[03:54] <nalioth> mnaines: nobody is getting away with anything here.  If you have nothing further, please respect our /topic
[03:54] <Pici> appeal: noun: a formal question as to the correctness of a ruling by a presiding officer
[03:55] <mnaines> nalioth: Even talking about this in the -offtopic room, I still get in trouble
[03:55] <nalioth> mnaines: yes, trolling the ops is off topic
[03:55] <mnaines> What, I can't criticise an op?
[03:55] <Flannel> Also, you didn't get in trouble.  You were told (repeatedly) that it was offtopic, and should move to an appropriate venue.
[03:56] <mnaines> Flannel, and when I did go to the off-topic room, you guys still complained about my topics of conversation
[03:57] <nalioth> mnaines: "trolling" is off topic on freenode, not just #ubuntu-*
[03:57] <mnaines> I first rambled on about my hatred of Windows and the first words I got out of the ops in there were "oh, no...Not this again" and "Why did you have to bring this up"
[03:57] <Flannel> mnaines: no, no.  You were told that the discussion you were having with me in -ot was appropriate for this channel, instead of -offtopic.
[03:58] <mnaines> And I come in here to talk about it and now people want me to leave...So where do you want me to discuss this issue?
[03:58] <nalioth> mnaines: the only 'issue' is your failure to acknowledge that you broke the rules of the channel
[03:59] <mnaines> I did not fail to acknowledge I broke the rules...I've never denied I broke the rules...I am not debating the rules nor am I debating my conduct in that room...I am questioning Flannel's mindset and beliefs
[04:00] <mnaines> I am being a critic of Flannel's way of doing things...
[04:00] <nalioth> mnaines: please come back and see us on Friday
[04:01] <mnaines> Its Tuesday...I think you got your math wrong
[04:01] <mnaines> Tuesday at 10:00pm where I live
[04:02] <nalioth> mnaines: my math is correct.  Please come and see us on Friday, August 28
[04:05] <mnaines> Then you better tell Flannel to chill out when I start up with this talk in the offtopic room
[04:05] <nalioth> mnaines: i'd suggest you read our channel guidelines and the CoC
[04:06] <nalioth> ubottu: tell mnaines about guidelines
[04:06] <mnaines> I did read them...I even read the guidelines the ops are supposed to follow
[04:06] <mnaines> But they're guidelines, not actual rules
[04:08]  * nalioth proposes we rename the guidelines to "iron-fisted-rules-whose-violation-means-weasels-in-your-pockets"
[04:08] <Pici> Some people might enjoy that
[04:08] <nalioth> WEASELS!
[04:08] <Pici> Or maybe I'm confusing weasels with ferrets
[04:09] <nalioth> same animal
[04:10] <Flannel> ferrets are illegal where I live since they maul babies.
[04:10] <Flannel> I suppose that means genii would be illegal too.
[04:35] <KB1JWQ> Flannel: You live in Clalifornia?
[04:35] <KB1JWQ> Which is like California, but not.
[04:37] <Flannel> KB1JWQ: I do.  Which is good, since I'm in charge of the CA LoCo team.
[04:38] <Flannel> And having to travel across state lines would make that annoying.
[04:38] <KB1JWQ> Flannel: I'm not in charge of much, but I'm in Los Angeles.
[04:39] <Flannel> Aye, I checked your callsign
[04:39] <Flannel> KB1JWQ: You're (somewhat) in charge of freenode!
[04:40] <vorian> Flannel: i'm an Idahoan now \o/
[04:40] <vorian> if that's even the right name
[04:40] <Flannel> vorian: Considering you're calling yourself one, I imagine you can make up whatever you want
[04:40] <vorian> good point :P
[07:00] <phix> hey
[07:00] <phix> I have a ubuntu related question, who wants to be my proxy? :)
[07:01] <Flannel> phix: This isn't a support channel.
[07:04] <phix> yeah I know, but my banned hasn't been lifted yet, was only supposed to last a few days
[07:05] <phix> can you ask a question in there on my behalf? :)
[07:06] <Flannel> phix: No.  You'll have to go through the process of getting your ban lifted.
[07:07] <phix> ok
[07:07] <phix> can you look into that for me?
[07:08] <Flannel> phix: Do you understand why you were banned?
[07:09] <phix> yes, I used inappropriate language
[07:10] <Flannel> and were abusive and rude
[07:10] <phix> I believe I conveyed my opionions about an operator in the channel too, without first asking his permission to do so in a private chat message
[07:11] <phix> and I think I was offtopic a bit too, which I took into the offtopic channel but apparantly they have the same rules about language in there as well, I understand that now
[07:12] <Flannel> phix: And you understand that the language isn't allowed, and you shouldn't be rude and abusive?
[07:20] <phix> yes
[07:20] <phix> That message has firmly been imprinted now
[07:21] <Flannel> phix: And you feel that you can follow our channgel guidelines if let back into #ubuntu?
[07:21] <phix> of course
[07:21] <Flannel> (this requires that you've read them, obviously)
[07:21] <phix> obviously
[07:22] <phix> they havn't changed recently have they?
[07:22] <Flannel> No.  What's the tenth guideline, out of curiosity? (yes, you can look)
[07:22] <phix> I reckon it is relavent to me
[07:23] <phix> "Don't be annoying"?
[07:23] <Flannel> I just couldn't remember.  Thanks for the reminder.
[07:24] <Flannel> phix: Alright, I'm going to remove your bans in #ubuntu, give me a sec
[07:24] <phix> ok thank you
[07:25] <Flannel> phix: alright, please join to make sure I got them all.
[07:26] <phix> 16:26 -!- Cannot join to channel #ubuntu-offtopic (You are banned)
[07:26] <Flannel> Alright, sounds good.
[07:26] <Flannel> Right, I haven't removed the bans from -offtopic yet
[07:26] <jussi01> phix: also, it would be a nice touch if you wouldnt mind changing your ident. this isnt an order, just a request.
[07:27] <Flannel> But you don't need -ot to get Ubuntu support
[07:27] <phix> what's wrong with my ident?
[07:28] <phix> my /whois you mean?
[07:28] <phix> or identd?
[07:28] <jussi01> phix: the threat part ;)
[07:28] <phix> ah, that is my alternick
[07:28] <phix> suits me ay :)
[07:29] <jussi01> phix: wel whatever, as I said, just a request. ;)
[07:29] <phix> ok, I will look into it, it just means phix will show up on severs I usually use threat for
[07:29] <phix> not sure if I can do that with identd, perhaps I can with my realname bit
[07:30] <ikonia> "threat for" ?
[07:30] <phix> that is my username
[07:31] <ikonia> oh I see
[07:31] <phix> for my server (running Debian for the server of course :P)
[07:31] <phix> any way, thanx for the help
[07:31] <phix> We can continue this discussin in offtopic if you like
[07:31] <ikonia> it's fine
[07:41] <topyli> @btlogin
[07:45] <Myrtti> hello sten2
[07:46] <Myrtti> he's been idle for quite a while
[09:08] <jussi01> !no, test is <reply>yes, I'm alive.
[09:08] <jussi01> !test
[12:18] <jussi01> juliux: you may want to remove this channel from your autojoin ;) Also, feel free to idle in #ubuntu-irc
[12:23] <jpds> jussi01: But then again, he may not want to?
[12:26] <juliux> jussi01: yep
[13:22] <bazhang> wow
[13:23] <gnomefreak> bot is gone?
[13:23] <bazhang> seems to be
[13:28] <elky> Myrtti, i'm doubting that we had this many ban slots
[13:29] <Myrtti> might not, but it's still trying
[13:30] <elky> hyes, and throwing in a -z every time for twice the obnoxiousness
[13:30] <jussi01> !test
[13:30] <jussi01> gnomefreak: ?
[13:30] <jussi01> oh
[13:31] <gnomefreak> jussi01: its there it seems major lag
[13:31] <gnomefreak> not here but bot lag
[13:32] <gnomefreak> ~4minutes from command to output
[13:32] <ubot3`> gnomefreak: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[13:33] <elky> lol
[13:39] <Myrtti> !staff | xsense, Sky_Sea botnet owners?
[13:39] <Myrtti> [15:39] [freenode] ~~~xsense [n=Staff@85.153.22.152]
[13:39] <Myrtti> [15:39] [freenode] ~~~ ircname  : BotNet Bir Tutkudur.
[14:26]  * genii makes some more coffee and considers mauling some babies
[15:08] <orochi> Well, I mentioned this in #freenode and their response was literally "who cares," so perhaps I'll mention it here. :> The botnet attack on the channel earlier -- from retracing some steps and translating some of the language that was being used I've determined not only who the attack was orchestrated by, but also the IP address at which the botnet's control center is located.
[15:11] <ikonia> really, only freenode can deal with that but we do have staff in here, so feel free to share
[15:11] <elky> orochi, have you contacted the ISP?
[15:11] <orochi> elky: I've e-mailed their ISP, yes. I also have the e-mail address of the attacker.
[15:12] <elky> orochi, i wouldn't recommend you bring yourself to their attention.
[15:12] <orochi> I'll post what I know in a few lines: the attacker's username -was- xsense, IP address 85.153.22.152. By no small coincidence there's an IRCD running at that IP address on port 4444; join that server and you're redirected to the #botnet channel.
[15:14] <orochi> elky: Unfortunately they probably became aware of me when I told them that I knew they were behind it, shortly after which they left quickly. :>
[15:14] <orochi> The site administrator's e-mail address: lnx@illede.net
[15:16] <orochi> Why he thought it'd be a good idea to host the control network on his own webserver is questionable, but there you have it...script kiddies, exposed. :> That's all that I know, beyond the fact that the ISP themselves haven't responded by phone yet.
[15:20] <orochi> ...Well, I'll assume by the silence that this perhaps isn't the most useful information, which I suppose makes sense considering the botnet attack is over with, but food for thought I suppose. :>
[15:20] <ikonia> oh
[15:20]  * genii makes more coffee
[15:22] <elky> yay for vigilantism. i wonder if he realises this is a logged channel.
[15:24] <Myrtti> I wonder if he realises that if he figured it out, we probably figured it out too, and many of us are on #freenode
[15:25] <Myrtti> btw, bruening on #ubuntu
[15:25] <ikonia> he'sbanned
[15:25] <ikonia> ban dodging
[15:25] <ikonia> AGAIN
[15:25] <ikonia> let me check BT as it was my ban
[15:27] <ikonia> ahhh no
[15:27] <ikonia> just offtopic
[15:27] <Myrtti> yup
[15:27] <ikonia> I wanted to ban him in #ubuntu too as him and his friends where sat in #archlinux-offtopic discussing how to do it
[15:27] <Myrtti> just a heads up
[15:28] <ikonia> they trolled offtopic but didn't do #ubuntu - but in my mind should have gone
[15:47] <ikonia> I didn't think the freenode irc daemon supported SSL ?
[15:48] <Pici> It doesn;t
[15:49] <ikonia> then why is mnaines saying he connects using SSL
[15:49] <ikonia> other than the obvious
[15:49]  * Pici shrugs
[15:50] <topyli> he also says he worked with mainframes, rewiring vacuum tubes and such
[15:51] <ikonia> troll
[15:52] <topyli> more like the usenet kooks of the golden days
[15:54] <mneptok> gunh ... bruenig
[15:54] <ikonia> mneptok: what now ?
[15:54] <jussi01> mneptok: just show him a photo of you :P
[15:55] <mneptok> ikonia: just reading scrool as i sip the coffee that genii DCC's me every morning
[15:55] <ikonia> ah
[15:55]  * genii hears something about coffee
[15:55] <genii> :)
[15:55] <mneptok> genii: a little less sugar next time? kthx.
[15:56] <mneptok> oh, and what MORON decided KB1JWQ should be an op? there goes the neighborhood!
[15:56] <mneptok> *smewch*
[15:56]  * mneptok polishes his halo
[15:57]  * genii makes a note as to mneptok's coffee preferences
[16:00] <jussi01> mneptok: even worse, someone made him staff o.O :P
[16:00] <mneptok>  /quit i prefer networks with reasonable staff guidelines ... like EFnet
[16:00] <jussi01> *g*
[16:02]  * genii slides KB1JWQ a coffee on the sly
[16:27] <jussi01> ikonia: ping
[16:27]  * jussi01 wonders how ikonia's travel plans are coming along
[17:05] <mneptok> @mark ftab terrible attitude, argumentative. e.g. [ftab] question ignored, next question please
[17:06] <mneptok> @btlogin
[17:06]  * mneptok jiggles ubottu 
[17:06] <mneptok> @login
[17:07] <mneptok> @mark ftab terrible attitude, argumentative. e.g. [ftab] question ignored, next question please
[17:11] <ftab> can any body please explain I am banned ?
[17:12] <mneptok> ftab: i asked you to stop abusing the bot in the channel. i explained you could use /msg. you told me to "go do my work."
[17:12] <mneptok> ftab: you then became dismissive and argumentative in /query
[17:12] <ftab> mneptok, your attitude has been rude
[17:12] <mneptok> ftab: the rules are there for everyone's benefit. and ops are volunteers, and should be given a small measure of respect.
[17:13] <ftab> respect is not taken but given
[17:13] <mneptok> i rest my case.
[17:14] <ftab> any way I have been using Ubuntu for more then an year now and so for I have been very impressed because of it's support and the help on IRCe
[17:14] <ftab> *IRC
[17:14] <ftab> isn't there any body else who can hear my argument pleas?
[17:14] <ftab> *please
[17:14] <mneptok> so then why tell the volunteers that help make the IRC channels usable to "go do their work?"
[17:15] <mneptok> i'm happy to pastebin the content of our /query conversation so that others may offer an opinion.
[17:15] <ftab> it's not necessary you agree with each and every one, if my attitude was rude so was yours
[17:16] <ftab> I asked you to send me a private message and we should talk there.
[17:17] <mneptok> and after you asked, that's exactly what i did.
[17:17] <ftab> mneptok, it was me who sent you the private msg
[17:18] <ftab> please do put the queries on pastebin but before that put the ban off pleas
[17:18] <ftab> *pleas
[17:18] <ftab> *please
[17:19] <ftab> I will challenge you being an operator, and if i was proven wrong then I will uninstall ubuntu.
[17:20] <ikonia> using ubuntu has nothing to do with this issue
[17:20] <ftab> which I don't want at any case
[17:20] <ftab> but the channel is for ubuntu
[17:20] <ikonia> so ?
[17:20] <ikonia> how does that effect if you use ubuntu or not ?
[17:20] <mneptok> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/259930/
[17:21] <mneptok> the rest of the conversation can be found via /lastlog in #u
[17:23] <mneptok> ftab: if you are going to ask about the ban, please do so in this channel. the time for /msg'ing me has passed.
[17:24] <jussi01> ftab: Im just reviewing the situation now, please wait a min.
[17:24] <ftab> I guess the operators are defending each other here
[17:24] <ikonia> or you've just done wrong and won't accept it ?
[17:25] <ftab> jussi01 thanks for that, I am glade at least some heard my voice
[17:25] <ikonia> that could be another option
[17:25] <jussi01> ikonia: please let me review it
[17:25] <ikonia> ftab: people are listening, no-one is ignoring you
[17:25] <ikonia> jussi01: please do - I'm just fed up of hearing this tosh form people about "ops just back each other up" when it's just nonsense as the discussion on how things are handled is anything other than that
[17:29] <ftab> iknoa, but the argument of the members should be at least noticed.
[17:29] <ikonia> it is
[17:29] <ikonia> I said no-one is ignoring you
[17:29] <ftab> thank you for that.
[17:30] <ftab> sorry if I didn't noticed that earlier.
[17:32] <jussi01> ftab: ok, I see you have been in #ubuntu for some time. I also see you have used to bot a few times with no apparent reason, hence mneptok asked you to stop abusing the bot. As the !botabuse factoid says, please use /msg or #ubuntu-bots for investigation of the bot. Now, that said, your attitude towards mneptok when asked was slightly rude, then getting ruder as he insisted.  Unless this attitude towards operators changes, then
[17:32] <jussi01>  we will not unban you. The operators are there to make the channel run smoothly, and you need to follow their guidance.
[17:33] <ftab> jussi01, I would love to follow that, but at least the operator's attitude should also not be rude.
[17:34] <ftab> and this is not the price I should pay for this, as I made it clear by not repeating those steps again
[17:34] <jussi01> ftab: I dont beleive [18:51:32] <mneptok> ftab: please stop abusing the bot in the channel is rude,  do you?
[17:35] <ftab> I did that by issuing 2 commands, and after he sent that message I didn't
[17:36] <jussi01> ftab: the problem here is not the bot abuse, I think we can all see that has stopped, and we thank you for that.
[17:36] <ftab> what else respect is mneptok is demanding ? he asked me not to abuse and I stopped doing that.
[17:38] <ftab> What I can say is I won't abuse the channel again, isn't that not enough for an apology ?
[17:39] <ftab> jussi01: are you there?
[17:39] <jussi01> ftab: no. the issue here is we have to be confident as ioperators that you will respect what we say. its important that when we ask things, we dont get an argument that fills the channel.
[17:40] <ftab> jussi01: if you see, I myself initiated a private chat with mneptok to avoid flooding the channel
[17:41] <mneptok> and then used that to be dismissive and question my actions.
[17:41] <jussi01> ftab: sure. I think the thing I am seeing here consistenly is that you seem to be telling mneptok how to do things.
[17:42] <ftab> jussie, I am not trying to tell any one any thing but just presenting my argument.
[17:42] <jussi01> ftab: out of curiousity is your native language english?
[17:43] <ftab> nopes.
[17:43] <jussi01> right.
[17:44] <jussi01> ftab: The way you talk has an argumentative stance about it. you need to be more respectful of operators messages, and understand that you need to comply with what they ask. is that clear?
[17:44] <ftab> jussi01: ok, I would say sorry if any of my word bothered any one
[17:44] <jussi01> The operators are not picking on you, just trying to make the channel run smoothly.
[17:45] <mneptok> ftab: and i was clear in telling you that making things run well is my goal. which then led to further arguments and questions.
[17:45] <ftab> jussie01: if you notice http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/259930/
[17:45] <jussi01> ftab: I did.
[17:46] <ftab> the 4th and the 5th line, I complained about a message and you can see his reply.
[17:46] <ftab> ok thanks Jussie01
[17:47] <jussi01> ftab: it is not your concern to make sure the ops are talking to other users. you need to make sure yyou look after your own behaviour, and if there is a channel emergency, then use the !ops trigger.
[17:47] <mneptok> ftab: and those 4th and 5th lines are the cause of the concern. it's NOT your concern how ops manage things, and to whom they speak about what issues.
[17:47] <ftab> that guys sent an argument about me.
[17:47] <ftab> so I complained
[17:48] <jussi01> ftab: If you have a concern about another user, you need to tell the ops the issue, not ask them why they didnt do anything about it.
[17:48] <jussi01> ftab: do you understand what I am trying to get at here?
[17:49] <ftab> hmm I guess that makes more sense, but he should he replied what you did, again you would say that I am asking the ops what to do.
[17:49] <ftab> but that is just an argument,
[17:49] <ftab> yes I do
[17:49] <ftab> *have
[17:50] <mneptok> ftab: understand that VERY few bans are permanent. unless you do something very stupid, i will gladly remove the ban in 24 hours. and any other op is welcome to remove it at any time.
[17:51] <ftab> mneptok not every boss in the company is likable there might be choices, I would be glad if you remove the ban right now
[17:52] <jussi01> ftab: so the thing here is that while we value your helping users in #ubuntu, it just doesnt help to have you trying to tell us how to do our jobs. Report issues, and tell us when things are a problem is helpful. but what you did there isnt.
[17:53] <ftab> jussie01 sorry I am lost here, I didn't understand that sentence fully
[17:54] <ftab> but one thing is for sure, I believe when you are helped then help others, and that's what I do at #ubuntu
[17:54] <ftab> #ubuntu solved my problems and so did I
[17:55] <jussi01> ftab: I mean Please dont tell the operators how to do their jobs, or enquire why they didnt take a certain course of action.
[17:55] <ftab> what about the complaints?
[17:55] <ftab> ok jussie01 one last question who guard the guards?
[17:56] <jussi01> ftab: We welcome that you give us information about issues, ie. user1 did this, but we do not welcome why didnt you do such and such a thing.
[17:56] <ftab> if I have any concern about an operator then where should I ask?
[17:56] <ftab> or complain ?
[17:56] <jussi01> ftab: I am a member of the IRC council, so I am partly responsible for that. Hence Why I am reviewing your complaint.
[17:57] <ftab> so if there is an complaint about an operator I should just jump to #ubuntu-ops ?
[17:58] <ftab> or !ops trigger
[17:58] <jussi01> ftab: here please
[17:58] <ftab> ok thanks jussie01: for hearing all of my arguments with patience
[17:58] <ftab> I believe in respect and justice
[17:59] <jussi01> ftab: all the members of the IRC council idle here, as well as other operators may also choose to review your complaint.
[17:59] <ftab> that's why I argued and put my point here ,
[18:00] <ftab> I feel no harm in apologizing mneptok now,  and would just ask him to be please polite.
[18:00] <ftab> not threaten .
[18:00] <ftab> :-)
[18:00] <mneptok> *sigh*
[18:01] <ftab> mneptok: *sigh*
[18:01] <ftab> :-)
[18:02] <ftab> so who is going to unbind me now?
[18:02] <ftab> sorry put the ban off
[18:02] <jussi01> ftab: Wait a moment
[18:03] <jussi01> ftab: I dont feel mneptok was impolite in what he was asking. I feel you were agumentative and that is what triggered this.
[18:04] <jussi01> ftab: I think maybe there is some misunderstanding from you, mneptok was not being impolite, just asking for compliance.
[18:05] <ftab> jussie01: I felt like that, so may be I was wrong.
[18:06] <jussi01> ftab: ok, I will unban you in 1 hour, on 3 conditions. 1. a sincere apology to mneptok 2. that you read the guidelines and 3. that you agree to be more compliant to operators in the future.
[18:07] <jussi01> !guidelines > ftab
[18:09] <ftab> ok looking at the guidelines
[18:09] <ftab> again
[18:12] <ftab> jussie01: isn't this possible that you unban me right now?
[18:14] <jussi01> ftab: its possible, but a) what is the hurry? and b) I think some time till unban is in order. its only 1 hour, so not life threatening.
[18:15] <ftab> a) hurry is that I am having some problem with sound, and I need to resolve that. b) I don't want to put in prison for long
[18:15] <ftab> :)
[18:15] <ftab> *to be
[18:16] <jussi01> ftab: ok, however, the above is my decision. Also, I haven seen your compliance with 1 and 3 yet ;)
[18:16] <ftab> 1 and 3?
[18:17] <jussi01> [20:06:55] <jussi01> ftab: ok, I will unban you in 1 hour, on 3 conditions. 1. a sincere apology to mneptok 2. that you read the guidelines and 3. that you agree to be more compliant to operators in the future.
[18:17] <ftab> ah
[18:18] <ftab> for 1 I already did, and for 3 nor I did and neither I will do in future.
 *sigh*
 mneptok: *sigh*
 :-)
[18:18] <jussi01> ftab: I would like to see a sincere apology now (after the point of asking).
[18:19] <ftab> jussi01: isn't this a discrimination, if I did once isn't that not enough
[18:19] <ftab> :-(
[18:21] <jussi01> ftab: no. the previous apology looked somewhat half hearted, and doing it now shows compliance with operator requests. ;)
[18:22] <ftab> jussi01: how would you know that I am full hearted, it's just discrimination and that's what I hate, if you think that you are able unban me then please do, if not then leave it.
[18:22] <jussi01> ftab: it seemed before that you were saying "I'm sorry, but" hence my feeling of halfheartedness.
[18:23] <jussi01> ftab: Im not trying to discriminate, I am just looking for compliance with instructions.
[18:24] <ftab> it;s up to you my friend, I did apologized once, and it's not my habit to beg. And I agree with point 3
[18:25] <ftab> so if you are interested then unban, I won't be disappointed now, this makes it clear, discrimination is every where even open-source is not safe
[18:25] <jussi01> ftab: ok. please go away for the rest of the alotted hour, and feel free to msg mneptok sometime with a personal apology. see you back here in  ~45 mins.
[18:28] <ftab> that won't gain my interest any more. but thanks any way
[18:32] <jussi01> ftab: ok, I just ask you to part now until the alotted time is up.
[18:32] <ftab> you mean leave the room?
[18:32] <ftab> sorry the channel
[18:33] <ftab> here I go man
[18:37] <mneptok> jussi01: i stand by my "argumentative" assessment :P
[18:55] <jussi01> ftab: 10 mins ;)
[19:37] <ftab> mneptok I am sorry to be argumentive in my last conversation, remember I am not doing it for unban but for the fact that I should have not been rude despite you to be rude ( at least I felt that you were )
[19:39] <jussi01> ftab: thanks. you are now unbanned in #ubuntu. Please remeber to use /msg or #ubuntu-bots for invetigating ubottu.
[19:40] <ftab> thanks jussi01 for your patience, and your politeness
[19:41] <jussi01> ftab: ok, I now ask you to part, as per our topic.
[19:41] <ftab> you mean leave ?
[19:41] <ftab> jussi01
[19:41] <jussi01> yep
[19:42] <ftab> ok sure. bye
[19:42] <ftab> what is the command to part?
[19:42] <mneptok> not that one.
[19:43] <bazhang> bearshare/arnold seems to have been ban dodging in #ubuntu earlier ; dont see him as being banned in #ubuntu-offtopic (though maybe I am blind)
[20:19] <Flannel> *!*@pool-71-116-96-171.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net
[20:19] <Flannel> (search for bilok)
[20:21] <bazhang> right he changed to just the 71.116 etc
[20:24] <jussi01> ikonia: ping
[22:39] <blizzkid> lo all, anyone here that is on planet.ubuntu and would like to do me a big favor please?
[22:39] <Pricey> blizzkid: How many channels have you spammed with that?
[22:40] <blizzkid> Pricey: forgive me, but I believe it's important enough to do so for once
[22:41] <ikonia> yet you've not said what the problem is in any channcel
[22:41] <Pricey> ikonia: -irc
[22:41] <Pricey> ikonia: and its not a problem
[22:41] <topyli> blizzkid: this channel is definitely the place for such a request
[22:41] <Pricey> topyli: hmm?
[22:42] <topyli> well, it's not related to ubuntu channels
[22:42] <ikonia> ahhh it's a pointless blog post request
[22:42] <ikonia> thank you Pricey
[22:43] <blizzkid> ikonia: I don't believe it's pointless, I believe it's for a _very_ good cause
[22:43] <ikonia> you make it seem pointless
[22:43] <blizzkid> the FSF's campaign is giving floss a very bad name
[22:43] <ikonia> you spamming it is giving it a bad name
[22:45] <topyli> blizzkid: sorry. what i said is the opposite of what i meant. this channel is *not* appropriate for this discussion :)
[22:46] <Pici> its being discussed in -irc, no need for the same conversation twice
[22:46] <ikonia> yup
[22:46] <blizzkid> topyli: I know it's not really the best place, but there is no really good place for it I guess, since I want to reach an Ubuntu member
[22:47] <topyli> email one or something then
[22:49] <ikonia> blizzkid: I guess if you don't need anything from the #ubuntu operators, it maybe a good call to leave the channel and think about how to spread your word without looking like a spammer
[22:50] <blizzkid> ikonia: yeah, I'm out and please don't consider me a spammer because of this.
[22:50] <blizzkid> bye
[22:50] <ikonia> I do consider you a spammer
[22:50] <ikonia> I also consider it a stupid thing to do to and makes a joke of his statment
[22:52] <topyli> if you mean the "pointless" thing, then sure. i think it didn't come out right
[22:53] <ikonia> no I find his blog post pointless
[22:54] <topyli> i didn't read it, but i don't think the post itself is the issue at all
[22:54] <ikonia> no, I pretty much agree with it, however slating a advertising for slating a product, with an advertising campaign slating the original campaign is pointless to me
[22:57] <topyli> heh, true
[22:59] <topyli> i, too, prefer advertising that says "i have great stuff" over advertising that says "that other guy's stuff is worse than mine"
[22:59] <ikonia> I find it a stupid campaign when Windows 7 hasn 't even been released yet
[22:59] <ikonia> " a product may suck, we don't know yet, but we think it will, so have this slating !"
[23:00] <topyli> yeah hating microsoft is not the fsf's mission iirc. it's building stuff
[23:52] <mneptok> killing people is not the army's mission. but it's an inevitable outcome of their stated mission.