[08:42] <hyperair> is anyone noticing notify-osd place notifications in in the middle-right portion of the screen
[08:50] <mac_v> hyperair: are you subscribed to ayatana mail?
[08:50] <mac_v> ;)
[08:50] <hyperair> eh no i'm not
[08:50] <hyperair> why?
[08:50] <mac_v> hyperair: thats a new "Feature"
[08:50] <hyperair> ..what?
[08:52] <mac_v> MacSlow: just a small doubt , how are the bubbles classified? the ones over the line and the ones below the line? is it user triggered and non-user-triggered?
[08:52] <mac_v> hyperair: yup a feature
[08:52] <hyperair> this looks pretty annoying.
[08:52] <mac_v> hyperair: take it to the man ;)
[08:53] <hyperair> i didn't really like removing them actions on notifications, but at least that was tolerable
[08:53] <hyperair> this is *ridiculous*
[08:53] <MacSlow> mac_v, atm the sync. notifications appear above the "half line" and async. ones below it
[08:54] <mac_v> hmm... 
[08:54] <hyperair> it looks like it's floating in the middle of nowhere.
[08:54]  * mac_v checks notify-osd wiki for sync and async difference
[08:55] <hyperair> imo, i have text in the middle of the screen more often than at the corner
[08:55] <MacSlow> mac_v, synchronous bubble = feedback bubble
[08:55] <MacSlow> mac_v, e.g. like screen-brightness, volume etc.
[08:56] <mac_v> MacSlow: so those are usually user triggered right? except for switching from DC to AC , which is actually user triggered
[08:56] <mac_v> the async are just mail/wireless notifications and stuff
[08:56] <MacSlow> mac_v, correct
[08:56] <mac_v> MacSlow: ah... thanx :)
[08:57] <mac_v> hyperair: if you are irritated you *need* to discuss this in ayatana mailing list and convince sabdfl
[08:57] <hyperair> maybe i will.
[08:58] <hyperair> i still have to read through that entire thread first
[10:37] <Michalxo> hello MacSlow . What is going to happen with notifications? 
[10:39] <MacSlow> Michalxo, could be a bit more specific with your question?
[10:40] <Michalxo> that irritating middle section.. will you move it to top/bottom right or are you going to keep it as it is now?
[10:40] <Michalxo> I like notifications very much, but that middle is *yuck* 
[10:43] <mac_v> Michalxo: you need to express your dissent to ayatana mailing list
[10:44] <Michalxo> ok thank you :)
[10:45] <mac_v> Michalxo: the discussion has already started against the position , but awaiting a bigger response to revert to top
[10:46] <Michalxo> well.. few of us has already "signed" this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/419894
[10:46] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 419894 in notify-osd "notify-osd images appear at the middle right of screen" [Undecided,Invalid] 
[10:47] <mac_v> Michalxo: oh... didnt notice that bug , kindly add that bug in your response too :)
[10:47] <MacSlow> Michalxo, be sure to read the "New notification placement" thread there.
[10:47] <Michalxo> ayatana seems to be "down"? I can't connect to server
[10:48] <Michalxo> ok thank you very much guys :)
[10:48] <MacSlow> Michalxo, in http://macslow.net/?p=381 I explicitly wrote "experiment with centering bubbles vertically ..."
[10:50] <Michalxo> well.. I think I missed that.. but at first we thought it's a bug :)
[11:05] <Michalxo> silly questoin.. how can I respond on that mailing list?
[11:06] <Michalxo> I am not in any subscribed team...
[11:14] <shakaran> Micahlxo: Go to https://launchpad.net/~ayatana, near to "Members" section, click on "join the team"
[11:21] <Michalxo> ahaaa :)
[12:10]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[13:03] <hyperair> what's the ayatana list address?
[13:05] <kholerabbi> ayatana@lists.launchpad.net I think
[13:05] <hyperair> alright, thanks
[13:06]  * hyperair is *very* annoyed with the new notify-osd behaviour
[13:07] <hyperair> because some people appear to have in the top right corner, notify-osd now renders its notifications in the middle, right of the screen, as if i don't have things there >=(
[13:07] <hyperair> so much for staying out of my way. it's not blocking everything i do, from emails to terminals to web pages, among other things
[13:08] <hyperair> ugh
[13:11] <hyperair> hmm wait, there's already a thread about it
[13:16] <hyperair> MacSlow: what do you think about the new notifications position, honestly?
[13:18] <mac_v> hyperair: everyone agrees they need to be back on top , but Mark is waiting for dissent from a lot of users , so pls show dissent ;)
[13:18] <mac_v> hyperair: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg00557.html
[13:18] <hyperair> mac_v: i'm afraid i might not be able to keep a civil tone if/when i do begin showing dissent.
[13:19] <mac_v> hehe , we need to try :)
[13:19] <MacSlow> hyperair, I like it better (because it revmoves a bit of complexity from the code, if stays like that) :)
[13:19]  * mac_v > reboot
[13:19] <hyperair> heh
[13:20] <hyperair> but it now gets in my way without fail :-(
[13:20] <hyperair> i have thunderbird in its three-pane layout mode, and hence the email contents are all squashed in the right side
[13:20] <hyperair> now, when a  notification appaers, it completely blocks a few rows of text
[13:22] <hyperair> after my previous rant here, i was trying to keep an open mind about it, but when that happened while i was reading my mail, it seriously got on my nerves.
[13:22] <MacSlow> hyperair, I move the mouse over it and it fades
[13:22] <hyperair> MacSlow: yes, good idea. move your mouse over it. but there's another bug in that.
[13:22] <hyperair> MacSlow: have you tried having an entire *queue* of notifications?
[13:22] <hyperair> leave your mouse over it, and see what happens when the next notification comes in
[13:23] <hyperair> the new notification doesn't fade, and now i have to keep moving my mouse every time a new notification comes in
[13:23] <MacSlow> for that case we're considering to skip the initial fade-prevention
[13:24] <hyperair> i still find it annoying that it gets in my way. =\
[13:24] <hyperair> just fyi, when i'm programming, i generally have a two-paned editor
[13:24] <hyperair> when a notification comes in, it completely blocks my view of the file on the right.
[13:25] <hyperair> and when you're using something like emacs or vim, chances are that one of the reasons you're using it is *because* you don't want to touch your mouse.
[13:26] <shakaran> I have a question. Why not make a GUI where the user can choose?
[13:27] <shakaran> Just a window with a dropdown list for the position. Many people would welcome this.
[13:27] <hyperair> yeah, i'm rather curious about that as well
[13:27] <mac_v> shakaran: why dont you ask on the ML? or MacSlow you wanna answer that ;p
[13:28] <shakaran> I do not mean that ML
[13:28] <mac_v> shakaran: hyperair: repeating from yesterday  "if keep saying perfs MacSlow will strangle you ;)"
[13:29] <mac_v> ML= mailinglist
[13:29] <hyperair> mac_v: perfs?
[13:29] <mac_v> user preference for changing the position
[13:30] <hyperair> mac_v: and i'd say bring it on. i'm going to need someone to strange if notify-osd stays like this.
[13:30] <hyperair> strangle*
[13:30] <mac_v> lol 
[13:30] <mac_v> its a tough coding , but sure coding help is welcome from all sources :)
[13:31]  * mac_v wonders what he has to do with notify-osd anyway and shuts up
[13:32]  * hyperair stamps "User" on mac_v's forehead
[13:32] <shakaran> Some users have made to customize the color patches, I've also seen patches to restore the former position
[13:33] <mac_v> correction  "notify-osd User" ;)
[13:33] <hyperair> heh
[13:33] <shakaran> well, customization is needed
[13:34] <shakaran> If you give it to the users, you have more users and the more important thing, good desktop experience
[13:35]  * hyperair nods
[13:35] <hyperair> it would be nice to be able to customize notify-osd even if gconf-editor needs to be used
[13:36] <hyperair> also it appears that i now get two updates available icons
[13:36] <hyperair> fun.
[13:36] <shakaran> or a simple file, only give the option
[13:36] <hyperair> too hackish
[13:37] <shakaran> well, I have to write this on ML for the record?
[13:37] <hyperair> go ahead, imo
[13:37] <hyperair> and while you're at it, please post a post dripping with sarcasm about the whole change in position on my behalf.
[13:37] <hyperair> sarcasm being the most important ingredient.
[13:38] <hyperair> don't quote me, though
[13:38] <shakaran> dont respect is more important
[13:38] <hyperair> ?
[13:39] <hyperair> nono respect is important. be very polite
[13:39] <shakaran> Sarcasm is not a good way to ask for things.
[13:40] <hyperair> dissent needs to be shown ;)
[13:40]  * hyperair shuts up before he leads anybody astray
[13:56] <MacSlow> mac_v, shakaran, hyperair: I really don't like preferences in general... it is usually a sign that interaction-design failed or missed something... furthermore it makes code more complex, in order to avoid or intercept "stupid" inputs.
[13:57] <hyperair> MacSlow: but lack of preferences makes software rigid and takes away freedom of choice, somewhat
[13:57] <shakaran> yeah notify-osd is being rigid more and more
[13:57] <MacSlow> mac_v, shakaran, hyperair: and once you start to move in that direction, the tendency is to have people tweak the s**t out of things... just look at the gazillion options you can tweak in compiz and its plugins
[13:58] <hyperair> MacSlow: you're looking at an extreme case.
[13:58] <MacSlow> hyperair, shakaran: finding the right balance here is the "art" I guess.
[13:58] <hyperair> imo just a little bit of tweaking would be nice
[13:58] <shakaran> yes, but your balance for now is zero prefs
[13:58] <mac_v> MacSlow: i really dont care much for prefs  , but would be fun to have , just bling for me... 
[13:59] <shakaran> if the people make a lot patch for prefs you could include in the official branch
[14:00] <MacSlow> shakaran, there is some work for gconf in the pipe already... but it'll take some time before I can turn to that.
[14:01] <hyperair> hmm nice
[14:01] <shakaran> Well, it's a start
[14:01] <hyperair> actually i don't really care about prefs as long as it works nicely for me (and appearing in the middle of my screen is *not* nice.
[14:03] <ScottK> MacSlow: Unless you assume everyone is the same and uses a computer the same way, I don't see how preferences are avoidable.  It's not just getting design right.
[14:06] <MacSlow> ScottK, some tweaks will be possible (afore mentioned gconf work) I just stated my general/personal view on the topic... and the ultimate goal of interaction-design (ok it's a bit utopian :)
[14:06] <hyperair> we'd all have to be clones of each other for one size to fit all
[14:07] <ScottK> Unfortunately, at least so far, the lack of configurability has been the source of a lot of resistance from people.  I'd care a lot less about default config if things could be changed to suit.
[14:07] <tgpraveen1> MacSlow: does the ppa of notify-osd for jaunty have vertical placement of notifications
[14:07] <MacSlow> tgpraveen1, I don't know which PPA you're talking about. I did not create one.
[14:11] <LordMetroid> How do I join the mailing list?
[14:11] <LordMetroid> I want to send a message
[14:12] <hyperair> launchpad.net/~ayatana
[14:15] <LordMetroid> There we go
[14:16] <LordMetroid> thank you
[14:23] <mac_v> lololol , notify-osd is creating more interest than the update notifier ;p
[15:01] <Mark__T> tedg: ping
[15:04] <tedg> Good morning Mark__T
[15:16] <zoomy942> good morning
[15:55] <Mark__T> tedg: I get 'undefined symbol: indicate_indicator_set_property_icon' with pidgin-libnotify 0.14
[15:56] <Mark__T> I guess my indicator patches aren't up to date
[15:58] <Mark__T> anyway, gtg
[15:59] <tedg> Ah, he left.
[15:59] <tedg> Yes, you need libindicate-gtk...
[15:59] <tedg> If someone sees him tomorrow... can you mention that?
[15:59] <tedg> kenvandine: Do you know Mark__T's mail by chance?
[16:00] <kenvandine> mark@foresightlinux.org
[16:08] <tedg> kenvandine: Thanks, mail sent.
[16:18] <mac_v> hm... weird, the messaging menu , indicates a new message and as soon as i access evolution via the menu , it changes to regular icon , even when mail is not read... is that the design ? or a bug?
[16:18] <mac_v> on the contrary if i access from evolution from the window list , the indication does not change 
[16:19] <mac_v> *access evolution from
[16:19] <tedg> mac_v: It should change back no mater how you select evolution.
[16:20] <mac_v> tedg: nope it does not , i checked several times , selecting from the window list does not change the status , [oh i'm using cairo-dock , would that have something to do?]
[16:20] <tedg> mac_v: Shouldn't.  File a bug in evolution-indicator if there isn't one already.
[16:21] <mac_v> hmm... ok
[16:22] <mac_v> actually i think the indication should change only when all the mail is read , not simply on selecting the app ;) so i'm gonna let this bug stay ;p
[16:23] <mac_v> BTW tedg ,what is the icon indicator-red gonna be used for?
[16:24] <tedg> mac_v: I'm not aware of an indicator-red...  where is it?
[16:24] <tedg> Infact, I don't have it on my system :)
[16:25] <mac_v> tedg: .. humanity icon theme has a new 3rd icon , indicator-messages-red
[16:25] <mac_v> since that icon theme is directed heavily by sabdfl , i was wondering maybe new feature :)
[16:26] <tgpraveen1> already in feature  freeze
[16:27] <tgpraveen1> so unlikely
[16:27] <tgpraveen1> mac_v: btw mind uploading the icor  a ss
[16:27] <tgpraveen1> icon or SS
[16:27] <mac_v> tgpraveen1: that was there a long before
[16:27] <tgpraveen1> ohok
[16:27] <mac_v> tgpraveen1: SS?
[16:27] <tgpraveen1> screen shot
[16:28] <mac_v> tgpraveen1: just do ~$ bzr branch lp:humanity
[16:29] <mac_v> by long before i mean around 1-2 weeks :)
[16:45] <tgpraveen1> hi i wanted to know what was decided for notification for fullscreen apps
[16:45] <tgpraveen1> how will it be handled in karmic i rmeember a long discussion taking place
[16:46] <tgpraveen1> what is the final decision?
[16:49] <natewiebe13> probably asked too many times.. but what is the status of notify-osd? (is it being changed back to the top or is there going to be an option as to the location?)
[16:54] <natewiebe13> anyone?
[17:03] <MacSlow> tgpraveen1, from what I remember the IM-status should be used to determine if or if not to suppress non-critical/urgent notifications.
[17:04] <MacSlow> gee... some folks are impatient
[17:06] <DanRabbit> mac_v: I don't know what it is
[17:06] <DanRabbit> it was in Human so I just made one ;D
[17:07] <mac_v> DanRabbit: yeah , some knows what it is for but who ? 
[17:07] <mac_v> ;p
[17:07] <mac_v> someone*
[17:07] <DanRabbit> haha
[17:07] <DanRabbit> I bet ken put it in there just to make us freak out
[17:08] <mac_v> kenvandine: booo  , 
[17:08] <mac_v> any ideas what the icon indicator-messages-red is for?
[17:08] <kenvandine> away
[17:08] <kenvandine> i assume
[17:08] <DanRabbit> mac_v: I named it wrong :)
[17:09] <DanRabbit> it's supposed to be new-messages-red
[17:09] <kenvandine> oh
[17:10] <mac_v> DanRabbit: booo to you too! 
[17:10] <DanRabbit> haha, see I have no idea what I'm doing :)
[17:10] <mac_v> DanRabbit: i confused tedg with the wrong label
[17:10] <DanRabbit> I just draw things
[17:11] <mac_v> DanRabbit: btw.. interested in drawing an icon for Software store?
[17:11] <mac_v> or hands already full ;p
[17:11] <DanRabbit> Software Store?
[17:12] <mac_v> app center = software store
[17:12] <mac_v> DanRabbit: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore/Icons
[17:13] <DanRabbit> oh
[17:13] <DanRabbit> cool
[17:13] <DanRabbit> the little store ones are cute, but it doesn't really look like anything :D
[17:14] <mac_v> yeah i too think its cute , just needs a bit of touch up
[17:15] <DanRabbit> too much detail for a small space
[17:15] <DanRabbit> plus, optical media
[17:15] <DanRabbit> we don't use optical media
[17:15] <DanRabbit> it's going away
[17:15] <DanRabbit> so those icons are going to have to go away pretty soon :)
[17:18] <mac_v> DanRabbit: the progress icon is in the branch , they are jsut figuring a way to animate it ;) , the rest are still open to ideas 
[17:18] <mac_v> just*
[17:18] <DanRabbit> sweet :D
[17:18] <DanRabbit> yea, the progress looks goof
[17:18] <DanRabbit> good*
[17:18] <mac_v> goofy? ;0
[17:18] <DanRabbit> I meant to put good :)
[17:22]  * mac_v was just teasing ;)
[17:33] <DanRabbit> mac_v: hmm, I'll think about it
[17:34] <DanRabbit> right now I can't think of anything better than the generic package installer icon I have now  :)
[17:34] <mac_v> DanRabbit: me too , totally blank :(
[21:19] <Mark__T> tedg: so what can I do to make pidgin-notify work again?
[21:21] <tedg> Mark__T: You just need to add "indicator-gtk" to the PKG_CONFIG check.
[21:21] <tedg> Mark__T: Sorry, indicate-gtk
[21:21] <Mark__T> okay thx
[21:22] <Mark__T> can't try before monday though
[21:22] <tedg> Mark__T: Oh, and probably a "#include <libindicate-gtk/indicator.h>"
[21:25] <Mark__T> will you ship these new splitup packages with 09.10?
[21:53] <tedg> Mark__T, yes.
[21:53]  * tedg misses jabber.
[22:16] <djsiegel_> mrooney|w: hey, can you try to find where this bug belongs? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/387791
[22:16] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 387791 in hundredpapercuts ""Do not disconnect" and "ok to disconnect" device notifications should not use the same icon" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
[22:16] <mrooney|w> Surely!
[22:16] <mrooney|w> Want to unsubscribe papercutters from all papercut bugs? ;)
[22:27] <djsiegel_> mrooney|w: hmm?