[02:59] <ace_suares> !seen ogra
[02:59] <ace_suares> You mean: I didn't see the command.
[02:59] <ace_suares> Or are you polish ?
[03:08] <mhall119> are you talking to the bot again?
[03:19] <sbalneav> Evening all
[03:33] <ace_suares> `bot?
[03:33] <ace_suares> what bot?
[03:33]  * ace_suares winks at Alan
[03:33] <sbalneav> The info bot running in the channel
[03:34] <ace_suares> cant we use the ltsp bot, that has the !seen command (ubottu has not)
[03:34] <ace_suares> Hey I am forfeiting a trip to a small uninhabited island tomorrow, so the meeting better be good!
[03:41] <sbalneav> Awwwwww
[03:42] <sbalneav> If it isn't, you gonna get your money back? :)
[03:42] <ace_suares> Just the tought of it being not, is making me reconsider :-)
[03:45] <sbalneav> What would make it NOT worth it, I wonder?
[03:45] <ace_suares> Low attendace, dwindling focus, multitasking...
[03:46] <sbalneav> Multitasking?
[03:47] <ace_suares> Yeah like playing warzone and debugging IO.string.jar and phoning your mom during the meeting
[03:48] <sbalneav> As for low attendence, even if everyone shows up, it's low attendance.
[03:48] <ace_suares> oh yah, i don't agree with that, work with wath you have eh.
[03:49] <ace_suares> I am going to watch some tedtalks. See you tamara!
[03:49] <sbalneav> If I make it.  I may be talking to my mom.
[03:51] <sbalneav> highvoltage: About?
[05:36] <alkisg> Good morning
[06:17] <highvoltage> good morning alkisg
[14:42] <sbalneav> Morning all
[14:43] <sbalneav> So, what time's the meeting today?
[14:46] <alkisg1> Hi sbalneav! 17:00 utc, wasn't it?
[14:47] <alkisg1> !date
[14:51] <sbalneav> !meeting
[14:51] <sbalneav> @schedule
[15:06] <highvoltage> heh, that was some time ago
[16:03] <ace_suares> man the meeting isnt even listed in the fridge
[16:04] <sbalneav> ace_suares: No-ones listed it there, I guess
[16:05] <ace_suares> sbalneav: logical, so locgical
[16:05] <sbalneav> Occam's razor is so very, very sharp :)
[16:06] <sbalneav> LaserJock usually handles a lot of the "administrivia" of Edubuntu.  Since he's in the process of moving, some of that sort of thing isn't getting done.
[16:08] <ace_suares> 17:00 utc is 13:00  GMT-4, right?
[16:10] <alkisg> ace_suares: give date -u in a terminal
[16:14] <ace_suares> Fri Aug 28 15:14:37 UTC 2009
[16:15] <ace_suares> and it's Fri Aug 28 11:15:00 AST 2009
[16:15] <ace_suares> so 4 hrs difference
[16:15] <ace_suares> 13+4=17
[16:15] <ace_suares> I added it to the fridge as in the wiki mentioned it doesn't show up yet
[17:30] <Svenstaro> Meeting in 30m?
[17:37] <sbalneav> Svenstaro: yep
[18:05] <Svenstaro> So meeting on?
[18:05] <sbalneav> Svenstaro: yes, in #ubuntu-meeing
[18:05] <sbalneav> meeting
[18:31] <mercurous23> hi everyone
[18:31] <mercurous23> i need some help
[18:32] <alkisg> !ask | mercurous23
[18:34] <mercurous23> i have problems with the quit button, it is just closing the toolbar without showing the logoff, shutdown and restart window.
[18:34] <sbalneav> This on a full desktop, or on a thin client?
[18:35] <mercurous23> full desktp
[18:38] <sbalneav> What happens if you hit control-alt-del?
[18:39] <mercurous23> it shows the shutdown options
[18:39] <mercurous23> it might be just the quit applet?
[18:40] <sbalneav> Could be.  Does this happen all the time, or after a reboot it's ok?
[18:42] <mercurous23> yes it happens all the time
[18:43] <sbalneav> Then I'd remove the app from the panel, and try re-adding it.
[18:43] <mercurous23> i already tried that
[18:44] <mercurous23> didnt solve it
[18:45] <sbalneav> Hm
[18:45] <alkisg> Does the logout dialog from the system menu work?
[18:45] <sbalneav> All your updates are up to date?
[18:45] <sbalneav> Sounds like some kind of dbus monkeyshines.
[18:46] <mercurous23> yes all are up to date
[18:46] <mercurous23> well i could just use the ctl-alt-del command to shutdown
[18:46] <sbalneav> Does alkisg's suggestion work?
[18:47] <mercurous23> yes it does work
[18:47] <sbalneav> Hm, so it's just the app on the panel, eh?
[18:47] <alkisg> mercurous23: do you mind resetting the panels? should I give you the command?
[18:47] <sbalneav> Weird.
[18:47] <mercurous23> okay
[18:47] <sbalneav> Yeah, that was what I was going to suggest next.
[18:48] <sbalneav> A --recursive-unset
[18:48] <alkisg> gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel
[18:50] <mercurous23> thank you guys it is working now
[18:50] <mercurous23> i am also having problem with firefox
[18:51] <mercurous23> i could not run it with going to terminal and using the sudo command
[18:52] <alkisg> Running firefox with sudo? Why?!!!
[18:55] <mercurous23> it will always say that firefox is already running when i tried to do normal launch
[18:55] <mercurous23> sorry i am still new with ubuntu
[18:57] <sbalneav> Then you've probably got a dead one in the background somewhere
[18:57] <sbalneav> ps -ef | grep firefox
[19:01] <mercurous23> it will always say that firefox is already running but is not responding even if I restart the system
[19:01] <sbalneav> ah
[19:02] <sbalneav> ok. lets do this:
[19:02] <sbalneav> cd .mozilla/firefox
[19:02] <sbalneav> ls
[19:03] <sbalneav> should have something like wdiudv75.default
[19:03] <sbalneav> some seqence of random numbers/letters.default
[19:03] <mercurous23> yes
[19:03] <sbalneav> cd into that
[19:03] <mercurous23> i think that is the profile
[19:03] <mercurous23> right?
[19:03] <sbalneav> you got it
[19:03] <sbalneav> ls -l .parentlock lock
[19:04] <sbalneav> got a .parentlock?
[19:05] <sbalneav> if so, just rm .parentlock
[19:05] <mercurous23> yes
[19:05] <sbalneav> then you should be able to start firefox normally
[19:06] <sbalneav> ok, I have to head out.  alkisg, can you give mercurous23 any more help he needs?
[19:07] <alkisg> Sure sbalneav, have a nice afternoon
[19:07] <sbalneav> Never trust greeks bearing gifts, but *always* trust greeks in IRC channels :)
[19:07] <sbalneav> Have fun my friend.
[19:08] <alkisg> Heh :) bye bye
[19:11] <mercurous23> i still got the same problem. I think i got 2 profiles on it. Do you know the command to delete the profile?
[19:12] <alkisg> mercurous23: firefox -ProfileManager
[19:15] <mercurous23> do you know this sqlite files are for?
[19:16] <mercurous23> alkisg my firefox is now working
[19:16] <mercurous23> thanks
[19:16] <mercurous23> great help
[19:16] <alkisg> The sqlite files are there to store your bookmarks and other stuff, don't delete them
[19:16] <alkisg> You're welcome
[19:17] <mercurous23> bye need to get some sleep it is 2am here =)
[22:17] <nubae> aaarcgh... missed the meeting
[22:17] <nubae> jeez, I slept through it
[22:17] <nubae> can someone tell me what I missed
[22:17] <nubae> I read from the email something about Sugar
[22:18] <nubae> I'd like to be involved with that as I need to package it for guadalinex anyway, which is based on Ubuntu
[22:27] <alkisg> nubae: you didn't miss much, except maybe for your membership once again :P
[22:27] <alkisg> ace_suares is going to work on the wiki, and sbalneav on sabayon & docs
[22:27] <nubae> well, i seee there is another meet for next week
[22:27] <alkisg> Sugar was mentioned, but just barely at the end
[22:27] <nubae> which is better for me as Ill have pyclic ready by then
[22:28] <nubae> so can get some people psyched to test it
[22:28] <alkisg> Nice.
[22:28] <alkisg> nubae: I tried with nbd instead of nfs. Yeah, it was twice as fast
[22:29] <alkisg> hdparm -tT /dev/nbd0 showed 10MB/sec for 100mbps network
[22:29] <alkisg> That's good. But of course gigabit would be like a native disk
[22:30] <alkisg> The downside is that it's not really live (the partition must not be mounted). The good side is that one can boot with that partition and administer it as usual
[22:30] <alkisg> ...and of course ltsp-update-image etc isn't needed.
[22:37] <nubae> right... cool
[22:37] <nubae> the biggest isue with nfs isnt even speed though
[22:37] <nubae> its reliability
[22:37] <nubae> it will disconnect, and when it does make the systems temporarily unusable... teachers reallly dont like that
[22:37] <alkisg> Sounds strange though, for such a widely-used file system...
[22:37] <nubae> well, its an old system
[22:38] <nubae> times have changed
[22:38] <alkisg> :-/ I mostly don't like this because of /home, I don't like rsynching stuff...
[22:38] <nubae> i have personally always see it have problems, and talking to the guadalinex folks that created this special local cache using rsync and reconnecting to nfs every 5 mins... guaranteed me that it has always had problems
[22:39] <nubae> well... its a patch hack for sure... the solution uis not to use nfs
[22:39] <nubae> anyways decision was made today here to NOT use ltsp becuase it was too reliant on the network
[22:40] <alkisg> So what will you use?
[22:40] <nubae> and we cant be sure our province wide networks are all cabled properlz
[22:40] <nubae> the simples solution possible
[22:40] <alkisg> xrdp? freenx?
[22:40] <alkisg> Or just cloning?
[22:40] <nubae> xmpp, and totally local machines
[22:41] <nubae> yeah net based cloning, we have a customised system
[22:41] <alkisg> Hm? you mean xdmcp?
[22:41] <nubae> thopugh we are looking for a c coder that could implement p2p like distribution within debinstaller
[22:41] <nubae> no I mean xmpp
[22:41] <nubae> jabber
[22:41] <alkisg> Jabber?
[22:41] <nubae> yes... ud be amazed what that protocol can do
[22:41] <nubae> everyone thinks its just a chat server
[22:42] <nubae> but its a hell of a lot more
[22:42] <nubae> and its super stable, very scalable
[22:42] <nubae> and not reliant on a constant net connection
[22:42] <alkisg> ...but what can it do? Can it expose a file system?
[22:45] <nubae> think of it like tcp
[22:46] <nubae> u set up a xmpp serve
[22:46] <nubae> server
[22:46] <asanchez> hi nubae, what are you doing!
[22:46] <nubae> and using the xep extensions, there are hundreds
[22:46] <nubae> hey hey....
[22:46] <nubae> asanchez: is one of my coworkers at guadalinex
[22:46] <alkisg> hi
[22:46] <nubae> my boss!
[22:46] <asanchez> hi all!
[22:46] <nubae> ;-)
[22:46] <asanchez> I'm your partner, not your boss!
[22:47] <nubae> yeah yeah :-)
[22:47] <nubae> paractically partner
[22:47] <nubae> technically boss
[22:47] <nubae> ;-)
[22:47] <asanchez> :)
[22:47] <nubae> alkisg was working on a fatclient realtime partition system
[22:48] <nubae> or... how would u describe it alkisg
[22:48] <nubae> ?
[22:48] <alkisg> Hmmm I can see a lot of extensions there: http://xmpp.org/extensions/ but are they implemented somehow?
[22:48] <alkisg> Yup, that describes it about right
[22:48] <nubae> i told him maybe we are interested in seeing what it is
[22:48] <nubae> alkisg: yeah many clients have them implemented... even things like share desktop, whiteboard
[22:48] <nubae> collaboration
[22:48] <asanchez> of course, any knowledge is welcome
[22:49] <nubae> video, audio sophisticated chatrooms
[22:49] <alkisg> It seems easy to handle, as it doesn't involve a chroot. The teacher just manages a desktop pc, and it's disk is shared with the other PCs
[22:49] <nubae> sharing of files from a bot like service
[22:49] <nubae> liek config files could be sent for example... imagine the italc stucture being sent for each classroom
[22:49] <nubae> asanchez: alkisg works in the Greek school systenm+
[22:50] <nubae> has the ear of many greek teachers
[22:50] <asanchez> interesting!
[22:50] <nubae> he has done some interesting hacks to italc too
[22:50] <alkisg> The problem is that ltsp, and linux in general, is not very widely used in greece :(
[22:51] <nubae> ?lkisg: whjat was it u did for italc again
[22:51] <nubae> we use it quite  lot at guadalinex
[22:51] <alkisg> But there's interest in it from the ministry and from some teachers... I hope it get used more in the future
[22:51] <alkisg> nubae: just some bug fixes, I didn't do much for it
[22:52] <nubae> i thought u added some feature
[22:52] <nubae> and also ure work on dnsmasq
[22:52] <alkisg> Nah... yeah, mostly dhcp-related stuff, for remote booting
[22:52] <nubae> to stabalise network right?
[22:53] <alkisg> And to make remote booting easier. E.g. here we use dual boot machines, windows + ltsp
[22:53] <nubae> ah yeah, we force users to use linux or linux
[22:53] <alkisg> So I did what I could to make it easier to install gpxe to the windows bootloader...
[22:54] <nubae> asanchez: u know sabayon?
[22:54] <alkisg> Also, we use cheap routers as dhcp servers, so I asked the dnsmasq and gpxe developers to implement a part of the pxe standard that would make it easier to boot ltsp clients without adding a second dhcp server
[22:54] <asanchez> we use an older version of ItalC because we made some hard code to fit our needs, maybe we could take a look at the new versions
[22:55] <asanchez> nubae,  I do
[22:55] <nubae> its been quit improved now
[22:55] <nubae> though i guess itn doest have much use in guadalinex
[22:55] <alkisg> iTlac 2.0 will have some major improvements, to speed as well. I hope it gets out soon...
[22:57] <nubae> asanchez: vagrant cascadian put me in contact with the main tech guy at linex
[22:57] <nubae> i'll cc u correspondence ok?
[22:57] <asanchez> ok, thanks
[22:58] <nubae> alkisg: can u list some of the improvements of italc 2.0?
[22:59] <nubae> btw.. asanchez = Technical director of Guadalinex-edu
[22:59] <alkisg> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=200812281333.43713.tobias.doerffel@gmail.com&forum_name=italc-devel
[22:59] <asanchez> audio troubleshooting classroom starts at #ubuntu-classroom, see u later
[22:59] <alkisg> bye
[23:01] <nubae> wow management interface for italc 2 sounds nice
[23:03]  * alkisg doesn't really like vnc... I'd prefer a freenx-based solution, or even better something with multicasting for demo mode :)
[23:04] <nubae> freenx wojuld rock.... guadalinex has a multicasting app, but just for vlc i believe
[23:04] <nubae> an inhouse app
[23:04] <nubae> think u ended up doing something similar
[23:05] <alkisg> It didn't use multicasting. Just plain old gstreamer pipelines...
[23:06] <nubae> thats what we did i believe... we call it virtual net cannon
[23:06] <nubae> as it shoots out to the machines in question
[23:07] <nubae> but allows teacher to control session
[23:07] <alkisg> A program that would *multicast* (so that it would give 30+ fps) the teacher screen would be priceless...
[23:07] <nubae> welll maybe tke a look at this program
[23:07] <nubae> might give ideas... think its python based
[23:08] <alkisg> Are the sources available?
[23:08] <nubae> very popular with the teachers
[23:08] <nubae> everything we do is software libre so shol
[23:08] <nubae> should be
[23:08] <asanchez> yeah, we could upload sources to launchpad
[23:08] <alkisg> "virtual net cannon" doesn't return anything in google....
[23:09] <nubae> asanchez: would be good, u never know people might improve on it
[23:09] <alkisg> asanchez: that'd be nice
[23:09] <nubae> or give ideas
[23:10] <asanchez> yeah, maybe a new project at lauchpad could be the easiest way to do that
[23:10] <asanchez> everything is in spanish: http://murgitic.blogspot.com/2007/02/crv-can-de-red-virtual.html
[23:11] <nubae> bueno, I can translate it
[23:11] <alkisg> sweet google translate :)
[23:12] <asanchez> yes, but i think code is in spanish too
[23:12] <asanchez> our coworker luis is the main coder of CRV
[23:15] <alkisg> I like your education submenus... ours is flat :) http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/education-menu.png
[23:18] <nubae> yes edu menus in guadalinex-edu are indeed very well thought out
[23:18] <nubae> we had input from teachers I thnk
[23:18] <nubae> think
[23:18] <asanchez> we have recently adopted edubuntu menu system in Guadalinex
[23:20] <alkisg> So how many PCs use linux in spain, approximately?
[23:20] <alkisg> (in education)
[23:22] <nubae> well.... think of it this way, we manage 4400 schools
[23:23] <nubae> or some number close to that
[23:23] <asanchez> in spain i don't know exactly
[23:23] <alkisg> Woah... that's a lot of schools
[23:23] <nubae> schools have between 100-600 students I think
[23:23] <nubae> asanchez knows better though
[23:23] <nubae> he can confirm
[23:23] <asanchez> in Andalusia we have nowadays 265.000 and we are going to increment this number before end of this year with 187.100 netbooks
[23:24] <nubae> yes, we are amongst the largest edu distributions in practice in the world
[23:24] <nubae> end goal is every student with a netbook, verdad?
[23:24] <alkisg> I hope Greece can learn something from you :(
[23:24] <nubae> asanchez mentioned something very interesting todaz
[23:24] <nubae> today
[23:25] <alkisg> Heh german layout ?
[23:25] <asanchez> before 2012, our goal is 1 computer per 2 students
[23:25] <nubae> basically, everyone is looking to see what we do
[23:25] <nubae> with our netbook deal
[23:25] <nubae> forced guinny pigs
[23:25] <nubae> guinea pigs
[23:25] <asanchez> although we are going to start to give 1 netbook per children at primary school
[23:26] <alkisg> Greece will also offer netbooks this September, but only for 1 class (= kids 13 y.o.)
[23:26] <alkisg> But I don't know if that will continue next year...
[23:26] <nubae> our system is, the gov. gives the netbooks to the students and teachers
[23:26] <nubae> so they can take them home, etc
[23:27] <asanchez> we have to change our model because now students are going to use netbook also at home
[23:27] <nubae> but we only support linux, so if they install windows they are on their own
[23:27] <nubae> this will be a big rpoblem
[23:27] <nubae> the other problem is connectivity to the net from home
[23:28] <nubae> like... should we alow them to connect to any place... (should there be flters hardcoded in?)
[23:28] <asanchez> after 6 years of experience, here people prefer linux because they have direct support
[23:28] <nubae> its all totally poltiical
[23:28] <asanchez> nubae, i think this is one way to give support at home
[23:29] <nubae> that is the real advantage... students when going into uni actually ask for linux
[23:29] <asanchez> and at home to their parents
[23:29] <nubae> trhez wont tolerate windoze
[23:29] <nubae> thats super duper!
[23:29] <alkisg> All that in 6 years? !!!
[23:29] <asanchez> why computer at home are so bored? where is tuxracer? :D
[23:30] <nubae> hey... theyve done a hell of a lot... most of the group (at least in development / tech) are some of the best in their fields
[23:30] <nubae> they really know their suff
[23:31] <asanchez> yeah, we are so lucky with our team and with nubae now!
[23:31] <nubae> so we work within the absurd demands of the ministry (asanches can give u horror stories for hours)
[23:31] <nubae> hehe
[23:31] <nubae> aww.....
[23:31] <asanchez> hahaha
[23:31]  * nubae blushes
[23:32] <nubae> yeah the team rocks... being able to bounce ideas off each other like that rocks
[23:33] <nubae> in all the other situations I was in, I was almost always working alone
[23:33] <nubae> much harder and half the fun
[23:33] <alkisg> It's really nice that you also do developement, and it would be even better if you could share it somehow...
[23:33] <alkisg> I think you're going to send some fixes for the ecubuntu education menus?
[23:34] <asanchez> yeah, I think we are now at good political situation to publish part of our work
[23:34] <nubae> heh, I was told today that we have a fulltime canonical dev that kinda works for us, based on the money he is paid for an official support contract
[23:34] <nubae> asanchez: thats a really good point
[23:35] <nubae> we need to some whitepapers and start sending to journals/magazines
[23:35] <nubae> get our name (guadalinex-edu) out there
[23:35] <asanchez> I think our deployment system its suitable for a paper (and we need this paper to :D)
[23:36] <nubae> I hav contacts with British press, but article in wired, linux format, new scientist, etc would be unbeliavably cool
[23:36]  * nubae hides from the documentation work
[23:36] <asanchez> our "public relations man" has a lot of contacts
[23:36] <nubae> constant struggle here
[23:37] <asanchez> no problem, I like doc and slides, I can do that work
[23:38]  * nubae and asanchez are kinda PR men too but from a tech perspective
[23:39] <nubae> me cuase somehow I got sucked into ubuntu, oopensuse, and wired membership
[23:39] <nubae> btw.... totally oiff note, did u see SCO is suing novell and IBM again
[23:39] <nubae> some court somewhere overturned their appeal to the ownership of unix and linux
[23:40] <nubae> emm..... wired should = sugar membership
[23:40] <nubae> doh
[23:45] <nubae> asanchez: una cosa.,... si me invitan a conferencias (un ejemplo es una para suse en Octubre) hay forma de tomar parte, reresentando guadalinex y haceindo una presentation?
[23:46] <nubae> me imagino que a la mejor podria coger esos dias, pero no se pagaria nada, verdad?
[23:48] <nubae> lo mismo con un despliege /infrstructuración en Madgascar
[23:48] <asanchez> nubae, todas las salidas por parte del proyecto tienen que ser aprobadas por la dirección, si la dirección la aprueba no hay problema
[23:49] <nubae> vale eso lo entiendo, pero es algo que puede pasar, o es muy dificil??
[23:49] <nubae> es que yo veo que asi ganamos información muy importante
[23:50] <nubae> y la verdad es que es ipmortante que alguien que este metido de verdad en estas comunidades vaya... es decir... no solo para el tema de marketing
[23:50] <nubae> more information sourcing, intellegence gathering
[23:52] <asanchez> i think it could be possible if your company is agree
[23:53] <nubae> sadiel in this case?
[23:53] <asanchez> yes
[23:53] <nubae> ok, I would have to talk to them?
[23:53] <asanchez> sorry, i have to help my brother with his final degree project at university
[23:54] <nubae> ah no problem... good luck, I go to bed now anyway
[23:54] <nubae> Ilöl ask another day
[23:54] <asanchez> yes, i think Jorge could have more information, i don't know exactly how that works in your co.
[23:55]  * nubae waves and tunes out