[11:57] <indus> hi,can anyone tell me when is next meeting for ubuntu asia oceania?
[12:08] <indus> hi
[12:08] <Xtreme_Great> hi indus..
[12:09] <indus> hello
[12:09] <indus> did any asia-oceania meetings happen today?
[12:09] <indus> i wanted to become ubuntu member so iam not sure whats going on where
[12:10] <czajkowski> indus: did you mail them like I suggest4ed to you the other day as the wiki had not been updated.
[12:10] <indus> yes i believe,in fact one of the guys is a friend of mine
[12:11] <indus> but they all seem busy with their work
[12:11] <indus> fridge says asia oceania meet today 10 am gmt
[12:11] <indus> i probably missed it
[12:11] <indus> damn
[12:12] <czajkowski> no meeting happend at 10am today going by the logs
[12:12] <indus> ok a question is, do they have any group email so i can send?
[12:13] <czajkowski> popey: do you know if the Asia meting board has a group mail
[12:13] <popey> their meeting is on the 1st sept
[12:13] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[12:13] <czajkowski> indus: there you go
[12:14] <popey> er
[12:14] <popey> oops
[12:14] <popey> wrong one
[12:14] <indus> np,iam sending from launchpad
[12:14] <popey> sorry, their next meeting isn't listed
[12:14] <popey> indus: they have a mailing list
[12:14] <indus> popey: they dont
[12:14] <indus> so it says on launchpad
[12:14] <popey> they do
[12:14] <popey> its not on launchpad
[12:15] <popey> one moment
[12:15] <indus> where is it
[12:16] <indus> czajkowski: hi how r u,thanks for the other day :)
[12:17] <popey> ubuntu-membership-board-asia-oceania@lists.ubuntu.com
[12:17] <indus> omg thats long
[12:17] <czajkowski> indus: no problem.
[12:18] <indus> ok ill email them later evening
[12:18] <indus> last question,what are you guys hanging in here for? any meetings?
[12:19] <popey> i lurk in many channels
[12:19] <indus> ok
[12:19] <indus> bye for now
[12:19] <czajkowski> indus: I watch the meetings as more often than not then are interesting , tb is unteresting, foundation has wit, and the kernel team runs swiftly.
[12:32] <popey> "tb is unteresting" could be taken two ways.. very tactful ;)
[12:32] <czajkowski> bah
[12:33] <czajkowski> should be interesting!
[12:33] <popey> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Unteresting :)
[12:33] <czajkowski> popey: sfw ?
[12:33] <popey> dunno
[12:33] <popey> play it safe :)
[12:34] <popey> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/57169 is SFW
[12:34] <popey> copy/pasted :)
[12:36] <czajkowski> heh
[15:58]  * lool hey!
[15:58]  * slangasek waves
[15:58]  * fader waves
[15:59]  * kenvandine waves
[15:59]  * czajkowski wonders is the mexican wave about to kick off in here 
[15:59] <cjwatson> afternoon
[16:01]  * robbiew does a cartwheel
[16:01] <ScottK> \o
[16:01]  * kenvandine dives to avoid robbiew
[16:02]  * robbiew turns an ankle and lands hard on his @$$...vowing never to try that again
[16:02] <robbiew> :P
[16:02] <cjwatson> is it Friday yet?
[16:03] <slangasek> Riddell, marjo, sbeattie, soren, Hobbsee, rtg, apw, njpatel: here?
[16:03] <dendrobates_> o/
[16:03] <njpatel> hey
[16:03] <ScottK> slangasek: Riddell is offline until Sunday
[16:03] <slangasek> ok
[16:03]  * rtg is here
[16:03] <marjo> marjo waves
[16:03]  * ogra sniffs ... 
[16:03] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is slangasek.
[16:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:03] <ogra> smells like release meeting here
[16:04] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-08-28
[16:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-08-28
[16:04] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
[16:05] <slangasek> cjwatson: I saw mail to Gustavo about landscape, any answer yet?
[16:05] <slangasek> fader: any progress on working around that nautilus crash (now that seb128 is back from vac)?
[16:06] <fader> We're still seeing the bug crop up but seb128 has been on holiday so we haven't discussed it.
[16:06] <fader> slangasek: I thought seb was back on Monday...
[16:06] <slangasek> fader: oh, right
[16:06] <slangasek> nevermind then :)
[16:06] <fader> :)
[16:06] <kenvandine> slangasek, he appeared briefly yesterday
[16:06] <kenvandine> but not really here
[16:06]  * slangasek nods
[16:06] <fader> Ah, I didn't see him then :(
[16:06] <cjwatson> slangasek: unfortunately not; however I'm not convinced we need to track this here
[16:07] <cjwatson> we've delivered something on request of the Landscape team; if it's broken or inadequate then it's their responsibility to let us know :-)
[16:07] <slangasek> cjwatson: ok
[16:07] <robbiew> +1
[16:08] <slangasek> soren: did the AWS page get published?
[16:08] <slangasek> soren: and do we have eucalyptus seeded now?
[16:08] <cjwatson> euca is seeded
[16:08] <slangasek> excellent
[16:08]  * cjwatson watches it being sucked down in his jigdo run
[16:10] <dendrobates_> slangasek: the page has not been published yet
[16:11] <slangasek> (oh, I guess soren's not here, there was a conditional in that mail)
[16:11] <slangasek> dendrobates_: soren is following up?
[16:11] <dendrobates_> slangasek: but smoser followed up with Amazon and is waiting for a response to Amazons internal escatation,
[16:11] <slangasek> ok
[16:11] <slangasek> # njpatel to file bug against unr-default-settings for tracking of message indicator status
[16:11] <slangasek> njpatel: ^^ did that get done?
[16:11] <njpatel> slangasek: lool did it during the meeting last week
[16:12] <njpatel> one sec, let me get the #
[16:12] <slangasek> thanks
[16:12] <slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
[16:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
[16:12] <slangasek> njpatel: (we'll move on, drop the bug # when you have it)
[16:12] <slangasek> marjo, fader: hello
[16:12] <fader> Hardware certification
[16:12] <fader> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:12] <fader> No real changes.  The only failure result we're seeing is still nautilus leaving logs in /var/crash
[16:13] <fader> mathben, our intern, is running tests on netbooks and laptops today, so some of those 'untested' results will fill in throughout the day
[16:13] <fader> However some of them may not due to issues with the ISOs (particularly UNR seems to be having trouble installing today; I've asked davmor2 to see if he can reproduce the install issues and we'll file bugs if so)
[16:13] <njpatel> #417001  fix-released
[16:13] <fader> mathben has also verified that bug 404264 seems to be fixed -- the install is proceeding past the network initialization stage but the system is failing an fsck after install, which should be unrelated.  We will investigate the fsck failure and update 404264.
[16:13] <fader> Spec progress
[16:13] <fader> karmic-qa-extended-audio-testing: this is 'beta available' -- I have written tests to hit a lot more of the detected audio hardware as well as some tests that can be run automatically in the certification machines we have in the lab and datacenter
[16:13] <fader> (I won't bore you with a list or gruesome details unless anyone is particularly interested)
[16:13] <fader> (that's it from me modulo questions)
[16:14] <marjo> ok, spec status:
[16:14] <marjo> * karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption - Requested current status and plan with the the LP team.
[16:15] <marjo> General spec status can be seen here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap
[16:15] <marjo> That's it.
[16:15] <marjo> any questions?
[16:15] <marjo> thx folks
[16:15] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap
[16:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap
[16:16] <slangasek> no questions here
[16:16] <slangasek> anyone else?
[16:17] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
[16:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
[16:17] <slangasek> marjo, fader: thanks
[16:17] <slangasek> kenvandine: hi
[16:17] <kenvandine> :)
[16:17] <slangasek> davidbarth, njpatel: also hi :)
[16:18] <davidbarth> hi
[16:18] <kenvandine> slangasek, so do i go over the items here? or just highlight issues?
[16:18] <slangasek> kenvandine: there's an up-to-date team wiki page about release status?
[16:18] <kenvandine> yes
[16:18] <lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
[16:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
[16:18] <kenvandine> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:18] <slangasek> right :)
[16:19] <davidbarth> the DX status covers both desktop and unr
[16:19] <lool> davidbarth: Thanks BTW
[16:19] <slangasek> kenvandine: if there are specific points on there that you think need to be discussed - need more resources from outside your team, or there's something that may affect release scheduling - please highlight those
[16:19] <kenvandine> slangasek, ok... no issues atm
[16:21] <kenvandine> nothing at risk for the release
[16:21] <kenvandine> davidbarth, you have any?
[16:21] <davidbarth> on the dx side, there is a current regression with the session menu
[16:21] <davidbarth> pidgin does not reflect its status on the menu
[16:22] <davidbarth> the risk is limited as the code is there but a bug still prevents the connection
[16:22] <kenvandine> davidbarth, empathy too
[16:22] <lool> I see the firefox bookmark syncing package landed in my package list recently, does that mean we might get it?
[16:22] <davidbarth> we'll add a bug to track that for the UIF
[16:22] <kenvandine> lool, no
[16:22] <kenvandine> well
[16:22] <kenvandine> it won't be in by default
[16:22] <lool> ok
[16:22] <kenvandine> installed via apturl from a u1 utility
[16:23] <slangasek> davidbarth: UIF isn't in effect yet; opening a bug report for tracking is good anyway, but won't this be fixed before then?
[16:23] <davidbarth> on the indicator-messages, we also have to update PK calls to the new API (tracked in the MIR)
[16:23] <lool> And/or indicator-session?
[16:24] <kenvandine> davidbarth, i think that is indicator-session
[16:24] <kenvandine> not messages
[16:24] <lool> I think I was this mentionned in -session's MIR
[16:24] <davidbarth> indicator-session sorry, i-msg doesn't use that
[16:24] <lool> Rigt
[16:24] <kenvandine> but that is for beta
[16:25] <davidbarth> indicator-session was the hot topic for this milestone, but is now safe in main
[16:26] <slangasek> kenvandine: I'm confused about the PolicyKit->PolicyKit-1 migration status; if hal is not being switched, and we've gotten as much hal out of karmic as we can already, does this mean we have to ship both policykit and policykit-1 by default in karmic?
[16:26] <kenvandine> slangasek, i don't think so... pitti's plan is just policykit-1
[16:26] <kenvandine> afaik
[16:27] <slangasek> ok, so presumably the bits of hal we have to keep don't need PK
[16:27] <davidbarth> btw, n-osd and notifications patches are also safe in karmic; monitoring some regressions; also won't be able to support keyb brightness notifications (upstream regression)
[16:27] <kenvandine> we still have indicator-session depending on policykit though, it needs to be updated to -1
[16:27] <kenvandine> slangasek, i assume
[16:27] <davidbarth> kenvandine: yes
[16:27] <slangasek> the current hal package still depends on policykit, though, so I guess there's cleanup to be done there
[16:27] <kenvandine> slangasek, ok, we should double check with pitti
[16:28] <kenvandine> although i am sure he is aware
[16:28]  * slangasek nods
[16:28] <davidbarth> on the topic of kubuntu integration, agateau has provided all the critical parts, and upstream'ed as much as possible; the default settings will depend on upstream's final take on them
[16:29] <slangasek> kenvandine: on the filtered spec list I see 'desktop-karmic-integrating-with-ubuntu-one' marked as Essential, but delivery status is 'started' - is that just an inaccurate spec status?
[16:29] <ScottK> There is currently a fair amount of grumbling from early users about their default on status.
[16:29] <davidbarth> finally, xsplash: we released some performance improvements and fixes, but it's there to be fine tuned before UIF
[16:29] <kenvandine> that should be beta available
[16:29]  * kenvandine fixes
[16:30] <davidbarth> ScottK: yes, agateau mentionned it; I trust your judgment to enable them where you see fit
[16:30] <slangasek> ScottK: that's grumbling that notify-osd is on by default?
[16:31] <ScottK> slangasek: Grumbling that messaging menu is turned on by default.
[16:31] <slangasek> davidbarth: keyboard brightness notifications... so we aren't going to have those at all in karmic?
[16:31] <ScottK> We don't have notify-osd in Kubuntu
[16:31] <kenvandine> slangasek, i can't change the status, but will have it done
[16:31] <ScottK> davidbarth: I think it's fine for now for testing.
[16:31] <slangasek> [ACTION] kenvandine to get status of desktop-karmic-integrating-with-ubuntu-one fixed up
[16:31] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kenvandine to get status of desktop-karmic-integrating-with-ubuntu-one fixed up
[16:32] <davidbarth> slangasek: nope, there's no such thing in DK atm; njpatel may provide add. details in the bug report
[16:32] <slangasek> davidbarth: which bug report?
[16:33] <kenvandine> slangasek, blueprint updated :)
[16:33] <davidbarth> slangasek: don't have it listed now; can take the action to fwd it
[16:33] <slangasek> kenvandine: thanks
[16:34] <slangasek> [ACTION] davidbarth to find bug report regarding keyboard brightness notification regression
[16:34] <MootBot> ACTION received:  davidbarth to find bug report regarding keyboard brightness notification regression
[16:35] <slangasek> ok, think I've managed to absorb everything in the report, at least regarding the desktop
[16:35] <slangasek> anyone have questions?
[16:36] <ScottK> You want Kubuntu stuff now?
[16:36] <slangasek> yes, please
[16:36] <ScottK> KDE 4.3.1 got tagged yesterday
[16:36] <ScottK> We expect to have it uploaded before the milestone freeze on tuesday
[16:36] <ScottK> spec status is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic
[16:36] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic
[16:36] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic
[16:37] <ScottK> A few things got deferred, but nothing essential.
[16:37] <ScottK> Kubuntu Netbook is going well.
[16:37] <ScottK> Upstream is planning on a plasma-netbook sprint next week.
[16:37] <ScottK> So I'll be trying to work snapshots from the sprint in around the freeze.
[16:37] <slangasek> ok
[16:38] <ScottK> I think that's it.
[16:38] <slangasek> alrighty
[16:38] <ScottK> I guess I'll add that upstream coordination on the netbook stuff is going very well.  One of the upstream devs is in #kubuntu-netbook and our buglist is his work list for next week.
[16:39] <slangasek> ScottK: heh, nice :)
[16:39] <ScottK> We should be ~6 months ahead of any other distro with a KDE netbook flavor.
[16:40] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
[16:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
[16:40] <slangasek> kenvandine, ScottK: thanks
[16:40] <slangasek> lool, davidbarth: hello (again)
[16:40] <lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:40] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:40] <davidbarth> dx back on stage again, with njpatel
[16:40] <lool> * News: switched to v7 buildds, v7 toolchain uploaded, new armel+dove image (relatively broken), new moblin-remix image (very broken)
[16:41] <lool> * Oliver is looking for some skilled oo.o person to help debug #417009 (oo.o apps crash on startup on armel); ccheney reports being busy and doko is on VAC; cjwatson suggested rickspencer might know
[16:41] <lool> ah no rickspencer
[16:41] <lool> * tracking DX/UNR integration: had a meeting to review any potential integration backlog with dbarth and njpatel and we took various actions to review the current seeds, gconf settings, and we are now reviewing UNR status every week in the mobile IRC meeting; we will also start attending the desktop/DX integration weekly calls starting next week; happy to also cover this in the release meetings
[16:41] <lool> * I'd like to know whether we want to track moblin-remix status here just like UNR -- it's a lesser priority spin and an unsupported one though and the meeting is quite long already
[16:41] <lool> * not sure how much of low resolution application patches we can still merge before UIF, but that's low prio
[16:43] <lool> Oh on UNR integration I forgot to mention we actually believe to be up-to-date for everything; I think njpatel was trying out the latest config this morning
[16:43] <lool> seeds etc. are all up-to-date
[16:43] <njpatel> yep, we're up-to-date with everything. more releases next week with more bugs fixed, though :)
[16:44] <lool> So no more "Why isn't this DX thing in UNR or why isn't this enabled in UNR?"   :)
[16:44] <slangasek> lool: moblin-remix status> if it's going to be a deliverable for karmic, we should track any problems with it here in the meeting
[16:44] <davidbarth> we had 2 criticals on UNR, both are fix committed, and fix-released as we speak: #351527 and #411530
[16:45] <lool> slangasek: Ok; it's a soft deliverable, unsupported, built from PPA; I think we want to move as much as possible into Ubuntu but it remains a "nice to have"
[16:45] <lool> I will give updates here
[16:45] <slangasek> oh, built from ppa - do we build that on antimony?
[16:45] <lool> Yes
[16:45] <slangasek> huh, ok
[16:46] <lool> slangasek: I had the same reaction  :)
[16:46] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
[16:46] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
[16:46] <slangasek> (relevant here too)
[16:47] <lool> davidbarth even pointed me at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus#Netbook%20%28UNR%29 earlier
[16:47] <davidbarth> slangasek: sure, mostly bug fixes, no new features
[16:47] <lool> davidbarth: I think a couple of netbook-launcher are still to land next week but that's about it?
[16:47] <lool> +features
[16:48] <davidbarth> lool: yes, but the upcoming releases don't contain additional features
[16:48] <lool> Oh ok I misunderstood then
[16:48] <lool> davidbarth: thanks
[16:48] <njpatel> yep netbook-launcher, window-picker-applet, maximus will get updates next week. Most all fixes.
[16:49] <slangasek> ok, looks good
[16:49] <slangasek> any questions on mobile?
[16:49] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
[16:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
[16:49] <rtg> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:49] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:49] <slangasek> lool, davidbarth, njpatel: thanks
[16:50] <rtg> Not all of the release meeting bugs are on that page. Here is up-to-the-minute status:
[16:50] <rtg> bug #359338 - no progress
[16:50] <rtg> bug #290153 - still in progress (Andy is on vacation through next week)
[16:50] <rtg> bug #409233 - no progress, need to reconfirm with newer kernel releases
[16:50] <rtg> bug #404264 - patch upstream, definitely in 2.6.31-rc8
[16:50] <rtg> bug #410198 - fix released
[16:50] <rtg> bug #418265 - should be fix released, will confirm with ogra
[16:50] <rtg> Working on 2.6.31-rc8 which it has a critical inotify regression.
[16:50] <rtg> Dropped KSM patch set pending more rigorous testing
[16:50] <rtg> Working with mobile team to improve the ARM platform kernels.
[16:50] <slangasek> rtg: you shorted me a bug in that report :) - bug #418265?
[16:51]  * Xtreme_Great wonders if this channel holds official ubuntu meetings
[16:51] <slangasek> (and hmm, agenda editing fail; 410198 should obviously not have been in the list)
[16:51] <rtg> slangasek, I see it in the scroll back
[16:51] <cjwatson> Xtreme_Great: yes, and is doing so right now, so please only interrupt if you have relevant information :-)
[16:51] <ogra> rtg, fixed for me, broken for GrueMaster
[16:51]  * Xtreme_Great apologizes
[16:51] <slangasek> rtg: ah yes - not on the wiki page
[16:52] <rtg> slangasek, right, its not one I've been tracking.
[16:52] <ogra> rtg, might be a different issue though, we both havent seen the warning message anymore
[16:52] <rtg> thats mostly it from me
[16:52] <slangasek> ogra: different issue how?
[16:53] <ogra> slangasek, GrueMaster cant get USB NICs to work for some unknown reason (the ones i tested here work fine for me)
[16:53] <slangasek> ogra: ok, but if it's not with this error message anymore...
[16:53] <rtg> slangasek, these arm platforms are notoriously unstable IMHO
[16:53] <slangasek> AIUI USB disks are working for him now
[16:53] <ogra> slangasek, xactly
[16:54] <slangasek> so I think that should be marked as fixed, and a separate bug opened for the NIC issue?
[16:54] <GrueMaster> Maybe I can best describe the issue.  I have two usb nics, one is a Pegasus, the other is a DM9601 (drivers).  Both work fine in UNR, but they fail to detect mac addresses in arm.
[16:54]  * ogra would like to see tobins final comment before setting it fixed
[16:55] <ogra> GrueMaster, but you dont see ehci warnings anymore anywhere, right ?
[16:55] <GrueMaster> The ehci bug was a kernel oops tat is no longer happening.
[16:55] <GrueMaster> s/tat/that
[16:55] <ogra> good
[16:55] <ogra> slangasek, can be closed then
[16:56] <GrueMaster> I'll file a new bug on the nic issue.
[16:56] <ogra> yeah
[16:56] <ogra> i'D still like to see the -source package come back for imx51 and i think slangasek had concerns about -docs
[16:56] <slangasek> rtg: is bug #395358 on anyone's radar, btw?  I suspect, but haven't proven, that this is also the root cause of bug #397698 now
[16:57] <ogra> we dont have a bug for that yet, i'll file one and might attach a patch for the packaging
[16:57] <slangasek> ogra: yes, please follow up via LP for that
[16:57] <rtg> slangasek, I've not noticed that one. too damn busy with arm kernels.
[16:58] <slangasek> rtg: anyone on the team not too damn busy with arm kernels who might take a look? :)
[16:58] <rtg> slangasek, I'm short handed right now
[16:58]  * slangasek nods
[16:58] <rtg> maybe I can get ogasawara to look at it
[16:59] <rtg> though smb's name is assigned. I'll prod him
[16:59] <slangasek> ok
[16:59] <slangasek> any other questions on kernel today?
[17:00] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
[17:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
[17:00] <slangasek> rtg: thanks
[17:00] <slangasek> dendrobates_: hi
[17:00] <dendrobates_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:00] <dendrobates_> A couple things:
[17:00] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:00] <dendrobates_> LP: #419515: OpenLDAP 2.4.18 upgrade, needed to complete server-karmic-directory-enabled-user-login
[17:01] <dendrobates_> Virtual appliance features (not filed yet), needed to complete server-karmic-virtual-appliance
[17:01] <dendrobates_> both are in need of FF.
[17:01] <dendrobates_> Hopefully they can be completed next week during the server sprint.
[17:02] <dendrobates_> that's all for me. :)
[17:03] <slangasek> no questions here
[17:03] <slangasek> anyone else?
[17:04] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
[17:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
[17:04] <slangasek> thanks, dendrobates
[17:04] <slangasek> cjwatson, robbiew: hi
[17:04] <cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:04] <cjwatson> the bug statuses there should be largely up to date; there's quite a few of them at the moment but we are making reasonably steady progress
[17:05] <cjwatson> if mvo's around, I wouldn't mind a quick discussion about whether bug 353534 is worth fixing in update-manager
[17:05] <mvo> cjwatson: I'm around
[17:05] <mvo> cjwatson: sorry that I have not replied earlier
[17:05] <cjwatson> and if anyone has an SSD convenient for testing, it would be useful to me if somebody could volunteer to have it abused for testing bug 415888; especially if you have an SSD matching that in the report
[17:05] <mvo> cjwatson: I can add code to update-manager that deal with the kernel update if needed
[17:06] <cjwatson> mvo: do you think it makes sense? I wonder if we should have a general practice of trying to get people onto the current optimal kernel, whenever the rules change
[17:07] <mvo> cjwatson: I think its best to select the optimal kernel based on the cpuinfo content (unless it is a self compiled kernel)
[17:07] <mvo> now the probelm seems to be that its not trivial to find a good mapping of cpuinfo to best kernel :)
[17:08] <cjwatson> right, that's exactly the problem that the base-installer code should solve for you
[17:08] <cjwatson> unfortunately it will probably involve cloning-and-hacking it right now
[17:08] <cjwatson> though it's designed to be called as a quasi-library (albeit in shell), so you could do a ubiquity-style thing of including the whole source package in yours as a submodule or something ...
[17:09] <mvo> cjwatson: I like that, that sounds sensible
[17:09] <mvo> better than to copy it
[17:09] <mvo> I mean, to copy it only once
[17:09] <cjwatson> or else change base-installer to deliver a .deb as well
[17:10] <cjwatson> anyway, whatever's most straightforward
[17:11] <mvo> cjwatson: I will go with the include-as-submodule approach then I think
[17:11] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks, I will work on it today
[17:11] <mvo> (and update the bugreport)
[17:11] <slangasek> ok, great
[17:11] <cjwatson> Robbie said he'd do the feature status side of things
[17:11] <slangasek> [ACTION] mvo to include base-installer as update-manager submodule for CPU->kernel mapping
[17:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mvo to include base-installer as update-manager submodule for CPU->kernel mapping
[17:12] <robbiew> howdy
[17:12] <robbiew> python-robust-packaging is still waiting on mvo update ;)
[17:13] <robbiew> mvo: any news?
[17:13] <slangasek> but not really anything there that's in jeopardy, AIUI, since the agreement is to not change the stack
[17:13] <robbiew> I think so
[17:14] <cjwatson> right, though it will affect several reasonably core components (by definition)
[17:14] <cjwatson> at least as of the last discussion we had
[17:14] <mvo> robbiew: yes, we will package stuff that is criticial infrastructure with "include-links" and defer the rest (debian is in the middle of a discussion about it)
[17:15] <robbiew> mvo: so we'll need an FFE for this stuff, right?
[17:15] <mvo> robbiew: well, I would say its more a bugfix, but I let slangasek decide
[17:15] <slangasek> they're bugfixes - so no
[17:15] <robbiew> ok
[17:16] <robbiew> the landscape stuff is done, at least in my opinion
[17:16]  * mvo nods
[17:16] <robbiew> cloud-setup-in-installer is progressing
[17:17] <robbiew> cjwatson can speak more to that...but nothing alarming at the moment
[17:17] <robbiew> same with grub2
[17:17] <robbiew> and I'll let slangasek cover multiarch ;)
[17:17] <Keybuk> he's doing very well
[17:17] <Keybuk> I've never seen anybody work on multiarch this long whilst retaining their sanity
[17:17] <cjwatson> there are a couple of bits left of cloud, specifically the code to actually go and discover nodes on the local network and add them, and some more debconf questions in eucalyptus-{cloud,cc}
[17:18] <cjwatson> if those require FFes, let me know
[17:18] <slangasek> multiarch - shown in red on the report, and that's accurate :(
[17:18] <cjwatson> and I asked a similar question by mail about grub-reboot/grub-set-default in grub2, which I think is making progress upstream
[17:18] <robbiew> oh and Keybuk is landing a ton of boot stuff that will need FFEs
[17:18] <Keybuk> I'm landing them bits at a time
[17:18] <robbiew> and maybe a call for testing via the ubuntu-boot ppa
[17:19] <Keybuk> through ubuntu-boot first
[17:19] <Keybuk> so there will be "new stuff in ubuntu-boot, plz test" ... then an FFE ... then move to main
[17:19] <Keybuk> while people are testing, I'll queue the next lot up in a second ppa
[17:19] <cjwatson> slangasek: is multiarch a deferral at this point? :-/
[17:19] <slangasek> since this is a blocker for proper sane fixing of alsa on amd64, I followed up to ubuntu-devel and proposed TheMuso a slightly less painful workaround
[17:19] <slangasek> cjwatson: I have a weekend yet before I have to decide that
[17:19] <slangasek> :)
[17:19] <robbiew> Keybuk: posting to ubuntu-devel?
[17:19] <Keybuk> robbiew: yes
[17:20] <robbiew> cool, thx
[17:20] <cjwatson> slangasek: alsa> I think I agree
[17:20] <Keybuk> obviously don't install from there just yet
[17:20] <robbiew> ack
[17:20] <cjwatson> which is unfortunate, we were trying to *reduce* ia32-libs' size, but hey-ho
[17:20] <slangasek> cjwatson: my fortune cookie yesterday said I could take on and accomplish ANYTHING I want to, so I figure that means multiarch will be done by Monday
[17:20] <Keybuk> because there's one bit missing that I'm finishing up today
[17:20] <Keybuk> slangasek: "...except in bed"
[17:20] <slangasek> cjwatson: well, this effectively restores it to its jaunty state
[17:20] <robbiew> I'm done
[17:21] <Keybuk> probably worth mentioning swap
[17:21] <Keybuk> and tmpfs
[17:21] <robbiew> ah, yes
[17:21] <Keybuk> swapfiles instead of swap partition, and following on, tmpfs-on-/tmp
[17:21] <Keybuk> I tried this
[17:21] <Keybuk> and I found very scary kernel bugs
[17:21] <Keybuk> so I'm deferring it until those are fixed :p
[17:21] <robbiew> oh, so both are deferred...i thought it was only tmpfs...noted
[17:22] <Keybuk> right
[17:22] <Keybuk> the tmpfs was fine
[17:22] <slangasek> are those bugs open in LP, should they be linked from the spec?
[17:22] <Keybuk> the bugs were with low swap, etc.
[17:22] <Keybuk> tmpfs-on-/tmp had a dependency on that because we didn't want to limit the size of /tmp
[17:22] <Keybuk> (ie. growable swap)
[17:22] <Keybuk> slangasek: I haven't opened them in LP, I've talked to upstream people instead
[17:23] <robbiew> Keybuk: don't other distros use /tmpfs and/or swapfiles?....are they also affected by these bugs
[17:23] <slangasek> ok
[17:23] <Keybuk> robbiew: they would be
[17:23] <Keybuk> it's not swapfile specific
[17:23] <Keybuk> it's "no swap" specific
[17:23] <Keybuk> or "nearing the limit of available swap" specific
[17:24] <Keybuk> swapfiles assume we start with no swap and add more when we need it
[17:24] <robbiew> right
[17:24] <Keybuk> tmpfs-on-/tmp means we can easily near the limit of available swap
[17:24] <Keybuk> both trigger insane behaviour from the kernel
[17:24] <robbiew> ok
[17:25] <Keybuk> slangasek: actually, I think I did open a bug in LP very early on
[17:26] <Keybuk> bug #386554
[17:26] <slangasek> thanks
[17:26] <slangasek> anything else to cover?
[17:26] <slangasek> questions for foundations team?
[17:27] <slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
[17:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
[17:27] <ScottK> Hi
[17:27] <slangasek> cjwatson, robbiew, Keybuk: thanks
[17:27] <slangasek> ScottK: hi
[17:28]  * sistpoty|work waves
[17:28] <ScottK> Motu-release is up and running and reviewing FFe already
[17:28] <ScottK> It's essentially like Jaunty
[17:29] <ScottK> We did add a rule that for new package FFe, finding an archive admin willing to do the New review is a pre-requisite for approval.
[17:29] <ScottK> ghc 6 transition is done and except IA64 is in good shape.
[17:29] <ScottK> IA64 is broken in Debian and Ubuntu and likely to stay that way until upstream fixes it.
[17:30] <ScottK> I took a first look at apt-cache unmet recently and it (without any specific work) looks roughly like it did when we released Jaunty
[17:30] <ScottK> So I think things are in a reasonably consistent state.
[17:30] <slangasek> great
[17:31] <slangasek> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ looks like it could use some attention still, but certainly not as bad as it was earlier in the cycle
[17:31] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ looks like it could use some attention still, but certainly not as bad as it was earlier in the cycle
[17:31] <ScottK> So I think we are in good shape.
[17:31] <ScottK> Yes.
[17:31] <slangasek> ok, good
[17:31] <slangasek> thanks for the update
[17:31] <ScottK> I did do some pinging on NBS today
[17:32] <slangasek> looks like we're at time
[17:32] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[17:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[17:32] <ScottK> I'm working with R upstream/Debian maintainer to land so new R stuff that should be exciting for people who care about R
[17:32] <slangasek> anything else we need to cover (quickly)?
[17:33] <lool> slangasek: Couple of things I wanted to check with you after meeting, not relevant to everybody
[17:33] <Keybuk> ScottK: I only care about one R source package ;-)
[17:33] <slangasek> ScottK: sorry to cut you short, but I suspect Europe wants dinner
[17:33] <ScottK> slangasek: I was done
[17:33] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[17:33] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:33.
[17:33] <slangasek> out of here, then
[17:33] <slangasek> thanks, all :)
[17:34] <lool> thanks all
[17:35] <lool> slangasek: One was that manifest thing I sent an email about
[17:35] <lool> slangasek: and the other was just that we're way over size for UNR; Tobin Davis (Gruemaster) is working on this and I told him to ping you if he didn't know where to start
[17:35] <lool> (over size for the ISO)
[17:48]  * sbalneav present for Edubuntu meeting
[17:49] <flint> sbalneav, I am also here for the Edubuntu meeting!
[17:51] <sbalneav> Hello flint, long time no see
[17:52] <ace_suares> hi scotty
[17:52] <sbalneav> Hello ace
[17:53] <flint> sbalneav, excellent seeing your typing my friend.  I am here to discuss recent architectural innovations recently discovered.  Where is Jonathan?
[17:54] <sbalneav> Not here yet.
[17:55] <ace_suares> coffe anyone ?
[17:56] <flint> ace_suares, I like mind dark and bitter... BTW I cannot count.  Are we about to hit 17:00 UTC?
[17:56] <sbalneav> !date
[17:56] <sbalneav> !time
[17:57] <sbalneav> lol
[17:57] <sbalneav> By my clock, in 3 minutes
[17:57] <ace_suares> here too, probably using ntpool.ubuntu.com :-)
[17:57] <flint> ace_suares, change mind to mine...
[17:57] <flint> !date
[17:57] <sbalneav> sbalneav@feniks:~$ ntpq -p remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
[17:57] <sbalneav> [17:57] <sbalneav> *europium.canoni 193.79.237.14    2 u  534 1024  377  139.910    0.653  10.946
[17:58] <sbalneav> According to my clock, my jitter's only 11
[17:58] <sbalneav> So I should be fairly accurate.
[17:58] <ace_suares> flint: yeah i had to look it up in whatisthetime.com or something
[17:58] <flint> ace_suares, there is a way to do it in irc but I have forgotten...
[17:59] <sbalneav> One minute and counting :)
[17:59] <ace_suares> ah well i sent a mail to the list to rouse some more people who where just playing warzone or chatting with the mom
[17:59] <ace_suares> maybe it's help
[17:59] <ace_suares> flint, I don't know you yet. I am ace, www.suares.an, www.opencuracao.com
[18:00] <sbalneav> 12 noon
[18:00]  * sbalneav sounds gong
[18:00] <flint> ace_suares, It is a pleasure to meet you.  I am an old gong...
[18:02] <sbalneav> So, AFIK, there's 3 of us in here.  Anyone else present?
[18:02] <sbalneav> flint: You have any questions?
[18:03] <flint> sbalneav, I am here to make an announcement.  Would this be a good time?
[18:03] <sbalneav> Gooder as any
[18:03] <sbalneav> Announce away
[18:04] <flint> Please note that the Barre Open Systems Institute held a Chautauqua here in Vermont last week with Dr. Walter Bender of Sugarlabs, his staff and our local organization.  The result of this is the impending release of "maple" sugar for Ubuntu Jaunty.  https://launchpad.net/sugar-jaunty
[18:04] <flint> Questions? Comments?
[18:05] <sbalneav> Isn't Lns, or alkisg also working on sugar for Ubuntu?
[18:05] <sbalneav> Very nice, AAR
[18:05] <flint> sbalneav, AAR = ???
[18:06] <sbalneav> At Any Rate
[18:06] <flint> 10-4...
[18:07] <flint> sbalneav, I am interested in finding out how we could include this in an upcoming edition of Edubuntu.
[18:07] <sbalneav> Well, Guess I'll go next.  Sabayon's now in a useable state in Karmic and Jaunty.  I'll work on Hardy packages.
[18:07] <sbalneav> Last night I branched the edubuntu-docs packaged, and started work on bringing the handbook up to day.
[18:07] <sbalneav> date, sorry.
[18:08] <ace_suares> re sugar: great - i'll watch closely
[18:08] <sbalneav> flint: Don't see why not, LaserJock'd be the fellow to talk to, as he maintains the seeds.  However, he's between houses at the moment.
[18:08] <ace_suares> re sabayon - great move, will test 'some day'.
[18:09] <sbalneav> stgraber's got ltsp in good shape for karmic, and I've got vagrantc helping me with ltsp-docs packages.
[18:09] <sbalneav> We'lll need an exception to get it included, but since it's just docs, I'm sure we can beg the right people.
[18:09] <sbalneav> So, my two committments are coming along.
[18:09] <flint> sbalneav, This is great news.  I was hoping that LTSP development had not stopped.  I had heard that LTSP had moved away from Edubuntu.
[18:09] <ace_suares> Of course there's an agenda at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting/Agenda so my points are known... except with so few people... maybe wait some more.
[18:10] <flint> ace_suares, thanks for the link... been looking for that for several weeks.  Why not on the old 'fridge?
[18:10] <ace_suares> Kalimera alkisg
[18:11] <alkisg> Wow!! Kalimera ace_suares :)
[18:11] <alkisg> Hi all
[18:11] <ace_suares> alkisg:  :-)
[18:11] <sbalneav> flint: Well, there was someone employed by canonical to help with ltsp.  They just moved on, and ltsp just went back upstream.
[18:11] <ace_suares> hi Svenstaro
[18:11] <flint> sbalneav, I suppose that was Oliver eh?
[18:12] <sbalneav> Yeah, he still helps with ltsp, it's just not his "job" anymore.
[18:12] <sbalneav> Anyone heard anything from the people who committed to making edubuntu a bootable image?
[18:13] <ace_suares> sbalneav: so you working on ltsp-docs (as a package) and not edubuntu docs?
[18:13] <flint> sbalneav, a great loss... I like Oli a lot...  but on the other hand, he is German... :^)
[18:13] <sbalneav> ace_suares: I'm working on both.
[18:13] <ace_suares> sbalneav: 'kay
[18:13] <Svenstaro> hi there
[18:13] <sbalneav> Hello Svenstaro
[18:14] <Svenstaro> Did I miss anything cool?
[18:14] <sbalneav> flint: Well, we haven't "lost" him, he's in the channel every day. :)
[18:14] <flint> sbalneav, damn, he probably "heard" me... :^)
[18:15] <sbalneav> Svenstaro: flint announced sugar packages, I announced a working sabayon and work begun on the handbook.
[18:15] <flint> sbalneav, I was really just trying to smoke ogra out...
[18:15] <ace_suares> Svenstaro: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/08/28/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
[18:15] <ace_suares> flint: what's an 'old gong' ?
[18:15] <sbalneav> That's all I have.
[18:16] <sbalneav> afternoon, CAN-o-SPAM
[18:16] <ace_suares> sbalneav: it's a lot :-) don't forget to include me in the edubuntu -docs stuff, please.
[18:16] <CAN-o-SPAM> hi sbalneav
[18:16] <ace_suares> hi CAN-o-SPAM
[18:16] <sbalneav> ace_suares: Did you contribute something to the docs?
[18:16] <CAN-o-SPAM> hi ace_saures
[18:16] <ace_suares> For those who don't know me yet, I am trying to clean up the wiki
[18:17] <ace_suares> flint: frindge didn't accept my meeting addition, don't know why.
[18:17] <sbalneav> Or are you just talking about links to with wiki?
[18:17] <flint> ...a poor player
[18:17] <flint> That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
[18:17] <flint> And then is heard no more: it is a tale
[18:17] <flint> Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
[18:17] <flint> Signifying nothing.
[18:17] <flint> an old gong...
[18:17] <ace_suares> sbalneav: no, but want to. at least in the structure, the conversion, that kind of thing and to put it on the wiki (even if it's just a link)
[18:18] <ace_suares> flint: oh...!
[18:18] <flint> ace_suares, I got the wiki web site in my notes... all is well.
[18:18] <sbalneav> ace_suares: There will be a bzr branch on my launchpad, just branch that and start making any changes.  I'll be glad to merge.
[18:18] <ace_suares> sbalneav: aha!
[18:18] <sbalneav> Too bad nubae isn't here.
[18:19] <ace_suares> sbalneav:  on this page: https://code.launchpad.net/~sbalneav
[18:19] <ace_suares> nub said he wants to come to get accepted, but the the council didn't say they where coming, so that might be moot ?
[18:20] <ace_suares> sbalneav: can not see your edubuntu docs branch, what am i doing wriong ?
[18:20] <sbalneav> Just because he's not accepted as a "member" yet doesn't mean he can't show up :(
[18:20] <sbalneav> :)
[18:21] <sbalneav> sorry, fat fingers
[18:21] <ace_suares> sbalneav: h ehe
[18:21] <sbalneav> it's not there yet.  I just branched it last night, and started cleanup.  I haven't pushed it to my repo yet.
[18:22] <sbalneav> I'm out to the cottage tonight for the weekend, so there probably won't be one there until tuesday or so.
[18:22] <sbalneav> Ace, you might just as well go on with your agenda
[18:22] <ace_suares> sbalneav: oh but I thought you said.. hmmm... :-)
[18:22] <ace_suares> sbalneav: okay
[18:22] <sbalneav> "There will be a bzr branch on my launchpad"
[18:22] <sbalneav> will be
[18:22] <sbalneav> future tense
[18:23] <ace_suares> oh
[18:23] <ace_suares> sorry excusez
[18:23] <ace_suares> fat eyes :-)
[18:23] <ace_suares> so on the agenda first point: Wiki Cleanup Efffort (Ace Suares) Proposal will grow over the next days at Edubuntu/Wiki/ProposalWikiHomepage and EdubuntuWikiCleanupEffort
[18:24] <ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu is the current homepage
[18:24] <ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Wiki/ProposalWikiHomepage is the proposed homepage
[18:24] <ace_suares> In discussion with LaserJock we opted for makeing all links go to external sites except 'grow edubuntu'.
[18:25] <ace_suares> So if anyone in favor, i might replace the old homepage with the new homepage if the grow edubuntu page is done (it's not yet).
[18:25]  * alkisg likes the new homepage *except* for too-many-borders
[18:26] <ace_suares> alkisg: yeah the design needs to be improved. most borders will go. We can talk design issues after content issues... ?
[18:26] <alkisg> Heh sure :)
[18:27] <ace_suares> If you look at the old homepage (please do so) then you will see under 'community' the 4 items. Communication is a non-existant page. I did  a rework on teams and meetings. Participate is the one that needs to be merged in to grow edubuntu.
[18:28] <ace_suares> Please look at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting and see if you like it.
[18:29] <ace_suares> Also at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Teams and see if you like it.
[18:29] <ace_suares> Her eis a proposal for the new namespace: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/NewStructure
[18:30] <ace_suares> Now what can we discuss? Any questions yet?
[18:32] <sbalneav> win 3
[18:32] <ace_suares> sbalneav: ??
[18:33] <sbalneav> Sorry, forgot the / in front of the command
[18:33] <sbalneav> someone just talked in #edubunut
[18:33] <sbalneav> Speaking for myself only...
[18:34] <sbalneav> I've always believed that the person willing to do the work should dictate how the work gets done.  If Ace has got ideas on how to layout the wiki, and is going to do the work, I'm happy to just let it happen however he wants to do it :)
[18:35]  * ace_suares wonders why he was waiting for a meeting when he could be done with the job already 
[18:35] <sbalneav> I was wondering myself :)
[18:35] <flint> ace_suares, meetings are fun?
[18:35] <sbalneav> But like I say, that's my opinion: someone else may have another.
[18:35] <ace_suares> sbalneav: becasue the absentees insisted on that it would go through a meeting
[18:35] <flint> ace_suares, ok maybe not...  I vote get on with it!
[18:35] <ace_suares> probably to prevent more chaos
[18:35] <sbalneav> But for me, I say: carry on seargent major.
[18:35] <alkisg> ace_suares ++ :)
[18:36] <ace_suares> hehe
[18:36] <flint> ace_suares, ++
[18:36] <ace_suares> but is also includes removing a lot of 'old pages' that are now redirected. Ogra and LJ expressed concern that it would 'break' links on the www.
[18:37] <ace_suares> what's your (plural) take on it?
[18:37] <sbalneav> I'd say, just make sure you don't delete any content, just move anything you want to get rid of off to "dead" or "holder" pages.  Then ulitimately, if someone has a problem with what you've done, they can just "get it back"
[18:37] <ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Tasks
[18:38] <ace_suares> sbalneav: my understaindg was that deletions also are revised, so you can undelete pages, i am not sure, but that I would like the best.
[18:38] <flint> too much time spent on the web site detracts from actually doing anything about the software.
[18:38] <sbalneav> Well, the web site's important too.
[18:38] <ace_suares> But yes, I can move all those pages to wikisite/tobedeleted or so and then they are out of the way. Good for me!
[18:38] <sbalneav> And if ace wants to make that his area of contribution, then I say just let him fly with it.
[18:39] <ace_suares> flint:  and I don't code so no time is lost., really
[18:39] <sbalneav> If it "breaks" something, then just fix that too :)
[18:39] <ace_suares> sbalneav: depends waht you call breaking. Do we really need EdubuntuWiring to stay? A Google search 'does' find that particular page, in the archive of a mailing list from 2005.
[18:39] <flint> ace_suares, the old saying here is "it is better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission"  go for it.
[18:39] <sbalneav> But having someone who's WILLING to do the work, and willing to COMMIT to it, means we should just let them "get on with it" :)
[18:39] <alkisg> That should be "LTSP wiring"
[18:39] <sbalneav> That's my opinion.
[18:40] <ace_suares> I realluy dont want a thousand redirects just becasue google finds it in a mailman archive. What is breakage?
[18:40] <alkisg> If the URL is obsolete, then the page should be deleted... If not, it should be marked as "needs to be updated"
[18:40] <ace_suares> alkisg: EdubuntuWiring is definately obsolete...
[18:41] <alkisg> Yup
[18:41] <ace_suares> The cookbook and the handbook too
[18:41] <alkisg> That should move to the ltsp docs
[18:41] <sbalneav> Can you rename a page?
[18:41] <ace_suares> alkisg: it DOES redirect to UBUNTULTSPLTSPWiring
[18:41] <ace_suares> sbalneav: yes
[18:42] <sbalneav> Maybe rather than deleting something, we could just rename the page to "BlahBlahDeleted"
[18:42] <ace_suares> alkisg: but do we need to keep te redirect even if google only finds one hit in a very old mailinglist? NO i say!
[18:42] <alkisg> I agree :)
[18:42] <sbalneav> If you do that as a "standard" it makes the page go away, but it's still "there" if we need it for some reason.
[18:42] <ace_suares> sbalneav: my poposal was to rename it to /Edubuntu/WikiSite/ToBeDeleted/{OLDNAME}
[18:42] <dgroos> hi all (sorry I'm late, just got out of other meeting at the school.)
[18:42] <ace_suares> dgroos: hi!
[18:43] <dgroos> hey ace-suares!
[18:43] <alkisg> sbalneav: it's a wiki, won't it be easier to find it from the history instead of from a different url?
[18:43] <ace_suares> sbalneav: so they are all in one place.
[18:43] <sbalneav> alkisg: Maybe.  I'm not a super-dooper wiki expert. :)
[18:43] <ace_suares> alkisg: if you rename a page, the old URL is not availbale and spawns the 'do you want to add' page
[18:44] <ace_suares> however, if you search for the title then you will still find it, but in a different place.
[18:44] <ace_suares> sbalneav: he he i became one i think :_0
[18:44] <ace_suares> mor coffee anyone ?
[18:45] <sbalneav> Too bad we can't just take a tarball of all the content somewhere.
[18:45] <dgroos> ace_suares--no thanks, my java's doing just fine ;)
[18:46] <ace_suares> dgroos: make sure you drink it just in time before it cools down!
[18:46] <dgroos> :)
[18:47] <ace_suares> Another question, what about the teams? There are so many teams that are defunct (i think). Shall I do a round of mails to the teams and ask them waht there future is, and if possible remove some of the teams from LP and the wiki ?
[18:48] <ace_suares> wow, can't people in edubuntu been told to wait an hour till the meeting is over?
[18:49] <alkisg> Heh don't worry we got dual screens :D
[18:49] <sbalneav> If a team's dead, I'd say drop the link to it.
[18:49] <dgroos> ah... multitasking at a meeting...
[18:49] <ace_suares> both sbalneav and alkisg are helping someone in edubuntu and none answers questions here :-)
[18:49] <sbalneav> Yup
[18:49] <sbalneav> We like to help.
[18:50] <sbalneav> And what makes you think either alkisg or I have the answers? :)
[18:50] <ace_suares> sbalneav: I think I oughta ask them first. IE the website team, it's dead I think, I am the last member added, Philippe is off the train, the rest never answered a mail... I think it would be best to remove the team and make sure it is a task for the main team...
[18:51] <ace_suares> sbalneav: well you may have opnions
[18:51] <ace_suares> opinions they matter too
[18:51] <sbalneav> I already stated mine: it's your show now: run with it :)
[18:51] <sbalneav> I'm just happy to see someone doing the work.
[18:51] <ace_suares> sbalneav: in fact i was told on several occasions to not go ahead and ask the opinions of the team.
[18:51] <alkisg> I think the teams should be discussed with LaserJock around...
[18:52] <sbalneav> The two who probably have the MOST opinions are LaserJock and HighVoltage, but they're not here :)
[18:52] <ace_suares> Once again I am stating that that process is not helping new people to join and fell valuable.
[18:52]  * ace_suares feels valuable all by himslef already
[18:52]  * ace_suares doesn't really need a team to have strong opinions :-)
[18:52] <sbalneav> Sure you're valuable.  That's what I'm saying, if you want to do the work, I say just go ahead and DO it.
[18:52] <ace_suares> sbalneav: yes i noticed that too
[18:53] <ace_suares> sbalneav: i know your stance now and I am happy with this! Is this also an 'official' edubuntu team decision?
[18:53] <dgroos> I like the way ace_suares is striving to get some concensus
[18:53] <ace_suares> I guess since this is *the* meeting
[18:53] <dgroos> otherwise, we don't have a community...
[18:53] <ace_suares> dgroos: I doubt that edubuntu really works on consensus. It's more like randomly fired opinions :-)
[18:54] <flint> ace_suares, who is actually involved in the release process?
[18:54] <ace_suares> dgroos: I think the underlying model is sel-reorganizing chaos
[18:54] <dgroos> well, you are pushing to improve it, right?
[18:54] <sbalneav> concensus is very nice if you have 30 people all working on the same thing.
[18:54] <ace_suares> sbalneav: the thing being 'edubuntu', isn't it ?
[18:54] <sbalneav> In *our* case, we have ONE person working on the wiki: Ace. :)
[18:55] <dgroos> You gotta start somewhere and if there are only 4 people there, well start there and provide the process/opportunity to all.
[18:55] <ace_suares> dgroos: yes, well, I like the chaos but then i discovered that there are procedures, and I was really told that I should obey the procedures :-)
[18:56] <sbalneav> Like I say. I only speak for myself.  And my opinion is: I trust ace with the job.  If someone ELSE wants to express opinions, they're free to do so.
[18:56] <ace_suares> sbalneav: but the wiki is one very visible part of edubuntu, as is the website, which i am planning on bulldozering after I stand on the ashes of the current wiki ....
[18:56] <ace_suares> sbalneav: lol
[18:56] <dgroos> well, self-organizing organizations and all do work by a kind of chaos, I think, but with a process of concensus-seeking makes for a place I want to be.
[18:57] <alkisg> I think ace_suares got about 9-10 ++  for the wiki job, so that's a lot of concensus :)
[18:57] <ace_suares> It's almost an hour now, I what time the meeting ends anyway? I'd be happy to close it soon with the result that I can hack way on the wiki ;_0
[18:57] <flint> ace_suares, hack away!
[18:57] <dgroos> alkisg: I agree, add my +'s to it as well!
[18:57] <ace_suares> dgroos: now there is consensus :-)
[18:58] <dgroos> NICE!
[18:58] <sbalneav> exactly.  ace_suares++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[18:58] <sbalneav> go man fo
[18:58] <sbalneav> go man go
[18:58]  * ace_suares realizes he could be on an inhabited island 30 cliks of the coast with his family and eat roasted chicken from the grill...
[18:58] <ace_suares> thenk you all for your trust and cooperation
[18:59] <ace_suares> Please do come with remarks if you feel there are things that could be done differently!
[18:59] <dgroos> thanks for insisting on ... consensus :)
[19:00] <sbalneav> ok
[19:00] <sbalneav> so
[19:00] <ace_suares> dgroos: I like the lazy consensus model. Peope who don't disagree automatically agree. That way, meetings withe only 4 people gain an incredible deciding power... Apache uses it in their development. It's cool.!
[19:01] <flint> * flint is content...
[19:01] <sbalneav> wiki's in ace's capable hands, sabayon's working, handbooks underway.
[19:01] <ace_suares> I am just posting the youtube here for those that havent' seen it: http://www.youtube.com/v/EtSh2GBDY_Q grin
[19:01] <sbalneav> Anything else?
[19:02] <ace_suares> sbalneav: nice summary! And empowering too. Hey ho, let's go, like the ramones used to say!
[19:02] <ace_suares> I have nothing else.
[19:02] <sbalneav> Going once going twice
[19:02] <sbalneav> anyone else?
[19:02] <ace_suares> sbalneav: add sugar annoucement to the list: iki's in ace's capable hands, sabayon's working, handbooks underway, sugar announced in launchpad by flint
[19:03] <flint> ace_suares, thanks!!!!
[19:03] <ace_suares> hey, no thanks, I'd really like to see that work on a TC!
[19:04] <flint> See you all next week.
[19:04] <ace_suares> Meeting adjourned, continue help in #edubuntu ;-)
[19:04] <ace_suares> Oh next meeting date, week from now?
[19:04] <sbalneav> Go ahead and schedule.  I'll be there.
[19:04] <ace_suares> kk
[19:05] <ace_suares> bye then!
[19:05] <sbalneav> Afternoon all, heading out to cottage
[19:06] <alkisg> Bye all :)