genii-around!dle | mnaines00:13
ubottuSorry, I don't know anything about dle00:13
genii-around!idle | mnaines00:13
ubottumnaines: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only; we ask you to part when you have no further business here in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.00:13
macogenii-around: he's waiting for Flannel to return00:13
macoFlannel had to go deal with a server issue00:13
genii-aroundmaco: OK, so legitimate00:14
* genii-around hands mnaines a coffee00:14
mnainesmaco, did the logs catch my comment about needing to go get dinner and that I would be right back?00:14
mnainesok...Just wondering...00:15
macoi think genii missed it00:15
mnainesHe can't read them himself?00:15
macoi dont think he scrolled up :P00:15
genii-aroundMy irc client normally records all backlog but right now I'm on my backup00:16
mnainesbackup?  Why?00:16
macogenii-around: the core's back up dude00:16
genii-aroundmaco: Ah, thanks00:16
macomnaines: because the server he and i use for irc was offline for a bit00:16
mnainesAh...So you two are buddies00:16
mnainesOr is that the server that runs this room?00:17
macono one of the other ops has a server that he lets some of us use00:17
mnainesLinux server?00:17
macoi assume so. the software we're using is called quassel00:18
genii-aroundmaco: Still not up for me. I'll try again later00:18
macowe connect our quasselclients to the quassel core and then we dont miss what happens when we're offline because the core catches the scrollback00:18
mnainesAh...So its a dedi00:19
mnaines(Gamer-speak for dedicated server, meaning a server that stays online even when the host signs off)00:19
* genii sips00:19
mnainesAnother term gamers like myself use is "You have to pay to play", which we generally use to mean "If you want to run the good games, you have to pay to get a top-of-the-line system"00:21
macohello corebuddy00:21
macomnaines: and thats why console gaming is more fair00:22
macowiat im OT now00:22
* genii slips maco a nice Ubuntu mug of coffee00:22
mnainesPlus, console gaming is easier because then you don't have to crowd multiple TVs and game systems in one place just to have more than one person playing00:22
mnainesThere's always a debate about which has better graphics and better performance, though I'm not going to start that debate up in here00:23
mnainesI've been waiting for you, Flannel00:30
FlannelI was off playing with electricity00:31
mnainesOne of my biggest fears, even though I spend most of my time dissecting computers00:32
mnainesFlannel, I found a youtube video you'd like00:32
mnainesOnly 3 minutes long, but is calm and anonymous, like watching a movie00:33
mnainesAnyway, you ready to finish our conversation about the banishment, flannel?00:46
* genii settles in00:49
mnainesAnyway, where were we before I left?00:52
FlannelWe were discussing venting, how ubuntu channels aren't the place, real life, no one's trying to aggravate you, just keep ubuntu usable,00:55
FlannelIn the opposite order of that, I was reading backwards, but those were recent topic stuffs00:55
mnainesYeah...I usually can know when my stress level is going up, but sometimes, I get distracted and by the time I figure it out, its already too late00:57
mnainesNow, about removing that ban...?01:00
FlannelAt the moment my biggest concern is how you'll react if the ops need to step in in the future, since you didn't react in the best of manners this time01:01
mnainesI don't know if you realize this, but some people do learn from their mistakes01:02
FlannelYou don't need to get snippy.  We can't assume you've learned, but no one said you hadn't, that's why I'm asking.01:03
mnainesDuring our conversation before my dinner, I kept reiterating the fact that I am definitely trying to learn from my mistakes but that it is a time-consuming and challenging process on some of the things01:05
FlannelAlright.  Just know that being rude towards individuals will not be tolerated, so if someone points out that you're getting off topic, or ranting or whatever, you should respect that, instead of attacking them.01:10
mnainesOnly reason I attacked them is because I felt I had no place to go to talk about random stuff01:12
FlannelEr, how does that work?  Instead of asking where you can go, you attack someone for reminding you to follow the rules?01:13
mnainesUp until this morning, people had been trying to keep the off-topic room on the subject of Ubuntu as well, but as the day progressed, it turned into a place for ubuntu users to talk about random stuff...That's the way it should have been all this time01:14
mnainesI figure as long as the conversations are clean, it should be a place for anyone in the Ubuntu community to talk about anything not pertaining to technical support01:15
FlannelIt's always been a place for random stuff as long as it's in the spirit of Ubuntu.  No one tries to keep the topics ubuntu only01:16
mnainesIt just seemed like people were trying to keep it ubuntu-related...I just wanted it to be a place where Ubuntu users could go when they don't need tech help01:17
FlannelNo, it's not kept ubuntu related, and you know that, having participated it in over the past few days.01:17
mnainesYeah...It just happened that when I got to talking about Windows in that room, several admins complained about it01:18
mnainesThat's why I thought that01:18
mnainesThe problem with talking bad about Windows in a Windows room is then you start getting hated like the plague01:19
Flannelmnaines: There's a difference between having a conversation and going off on a monologue or a rant.  I believe the latter is what was taken exception to.01:20
mnainesI am trying to break that habit...I have always had a habit of rambling on about random stuff when I get bored01:21
FlannelIf you're being engaging to the rest of the channel, and everything is in the spirit of Ubuntu, there's no reason for it to be stopped.01:21
mnainesIf by "in the spirit of Ubuntu" you mean keeping it on the topic of Ubuntu, well, you now understand what my complaint is01:22
ubottuSome topics are controversial and often end in negativity. Take care on subjects like war, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide. The topics are not banned; stating your position is ok, but trolling, baiting, hostility or repetition are not. If you are asked to stop, do so politely. Disputes to !appeals, please adhere to !Freenode Policy and the !CodeOfConduct01:22
FlannelNo, "in the spirit of ubuntu" has nothing to do with being related to Ubuntu01:22
mnainesBasically what I interpret the off-topic room to be is a place for open discussion among Ubuntu users...Its just a place where Ubuntu users can go when they don't need help so they don't make too much noise in the support room...01:23
FlannelKeep the code of conduct and the IRC guidelines in mind and use those as a meter of appropriateness of conversation.01:23
FlannelNo one's saying it isn't, nor have they said it isn't.01:24
Flannelbut "open" doesn't mean "everything"01:24
mnainesAs long as my interpretations and the real thing are both the same, I can understand that01:24
mnainesI didn't think operating system conversations were that controversial01:25
mnainesI also didn't think debates were controversial01:25
FlannelNo, they're not.  But you weren't having a conversation at that point, if I remember correctly.01:25
FlannelI might be mistaken, I wasn't paying attention01:26
mnainesI thought I was just stating my beliefs but not directing them at any one person01:27
FlannelPerhaps you should ask the people who asked you to stop, they'll definately be able to clarify01:27
FlannelIf I knew who they were, I'd ping them for you.01:27
mnainesDon't waste your time...01:28
mneptokFlannel: mind if i interject something quickly?01:28
FlannelWell, there's obviously a question about it, and having clarification should lead to a decrease in conflict in the future.01:28
* mneptok has to go make dinner soon01:28
Flannelmneptok: By all means01:28
mneptokmnaines: as regards you discussing your hatred of Windows ...01:28
mneptokmnaines: you know that Linux is a pile of crap developed by a Finnish mouth-breather, and that anyone that uses it is a knuckle-dragging troglodyte that only obeys a herd mentality. right?01:29
mneptokmnaines: i suggest OpenBSD. real men use that. you're obviously a Linux loser.01:29
mneptokmnaines: now ... does that make you feel particularly warm toward the OpenBSD community?01:30
mnainesI wouldn't be surprised, mneptok...Most of the more user-friendly distros don't teach command-line, so I will agree they aren't all that great01:30
mneptokmnaines: does it make you think "wow, maybe this person is onto something. they sound like a fun, understanding, and capable group. i want to check that out!"01:30
mneptokit wouldn;t make me think so.01:31
mneptoki'd think "this pompous widbag can shove his opinions, and his 'OpenBSD' whatever that is."01:31
mnainesTry getting away with that in a Windows room01:31
mneptokin short, "you draw more flies with honey."01:31
mneptokwant to convert a Windows user? help them get their machine working again, even though all the supposed MCSE's they have talked to have failed.01:32
mnainesIt also depends on how well you can tolerate insults...I've seen people who go ballistic the moment they feel insulted01:32
mneptokwhen they thank you, say something along the lines of, "i'm actually surprised i could help. i haven't used Windows much in years. i use Linux. ask me about it sometime."01:32
mnainesIf someone said that to me, I wouldn't be impressed01:33
mneptokthat makes them think "the people that really know computers use Linux" rather than "the pompous, self-righteous idiots use something called Linux that i will NOT be bothered to look at."01:33
mneptoknome sane?01:33
mneptokyou don't really get ahead by shoving the other guy backwards.01:34
mnainesTo me, "the people who really know computers" are the ones who can work on any computer regardless of the OS and are not biased towards or against any one OS01:34
mneptokmnaines: exactly.01:34
mneptokmnaines: and you sound damned biased.01:34
mneptokennyhoo, off to make dinner.01:35
mnainesI don't see it as biased...I see it as telling them the truth...Every one of the techies I know won't say anything bad about anything they work on because they make money selling people things they don't need01:35
mneptokthink about that. and thanks for the airtime Flannel.01:35
mnainesI don't work like that most of the time...My business strategy with my own computer company is telling people everything about a product, including its disadvantages or flaws, then letting the customer decide on their own which one they want01:36
mnainesI let the product sell itself...I just tell the customer everything they want to know about the product01:38
mnainesIt pays off for me because that generates repeat business...Customers see that and say "This guy isn't pushy and isn't trying to sell me something I don't need, so I'm definitely coming back here if I need something"01:39
Flannel#ubuntu isn't about selling anything.  It's about providing support.  Someone asked how to dual boot with windows, it's not our place to tell them to upgrade to Win7 Super-deluxe edition from home, nor is it our place to tell them to ditch windows.  Obviously they have a need for windows, or want to give it a try, or whatever.01:39
mnainesYeah, but in that case, I would tell them what flaws Windows has them let them decide if they want to take that risk01:40
mnainesIf they need windows, maybe they can find a way to off-set those flaws01:40
mnainesOr maybe you can tell them how to01:40
spOcan you guys please unban me from #ubuntu , i was banned because i was trolling in #launchpad , but i didn't do anything like trolling in #ubuntu .  I was trolling because i wanted a ban, but i don't know why i was banned from another channel or someone had botnet scripts or something01:41
spOi mean if i troll in #politics , that means i get a banned from #ubuntu?01:42
Flannelmnaines: #ubuntu is not the place for your evangelism.  Moreso, you weren't telling them flaws, you were telling them anecdotes, and in one case, a flat out lie.  Making someone worry about dual booting isn't going to make them want to give up Windows.01:42
spOcome on, we can have  contextual ethics, we don't need to be so universal01:42
mneptokspO: you were banned because i felt your behavior in #launchpad was egregious enough to warrant the bad karma in other Ubuntu-related channels.01:42
mnainesmneptok: Can I interject into that for a second?01:43
mneptokmnaines: you may not.01:43
spOmneptok, that is fine , personally, but i don't understand how feelings merits anything in a rational universe  (ie, i don't know what feelings has to do with anything whereas rational is superior),. Furthermore, i would like a third party to intervene in decision making if you are going to use your feelings in judgment rather than rational01:44
mnainesAww...I was simply going to give the Golden Rule01:44
spOi assure you , i did not mean to cause grief or fear of any behavior in #ubuntu01:44
spOi didn't intend on doing anything in there01:45
mneptokspO: jussi01 said he would discuss it. but remember, trying an exploit in ANY channel on Freenode gets you banned from the network. by your logic, anyone trying an exploit cannot be removed from the network until they try it in every channel. that's simply insane.01:45
spOi would like someone else to intervene if you are going to use mystic like concepts that i do not really understand , like "karma"01:45
mneptokspO: well, that intervention will not be happening now, as jussi_01 is asleep.01:46
mneptokspO: try either very late tonight US time, or tomorrow.01:46
spOif you want to be vendictive or overzealous, can you please gline me from all of freenode ?01:46
spOto further your point01:47
spObecause your feelings merit something or because karma is something qualifiable01:47
spOie, i did lots of bad things to ants this morning, that makes karma ought to attack me via gline01:48
mneptokspO: repeat the behavior you exhibited in #launchpad in #freenode and other channels, and i'm sure Freenode staff would be happy to oblige.01:48
spOyou suggested that one channel has the same rules of all channels, and that trolling in one channel merits (feeling or karma based) bans in other channels01:48
spOie, so ban me from all channels01:49
spOseriously, you are overzealous, and i will come back later01:49
spOi don't understand why you don't just put your feelings in check01:49
mneptokyour reductio ad absurdum is a weak and flawed strategy.01:49
spOi am attacking your logic as absurd based on its merits of being feeling or karma based01:51
spOinstead of rationally based01:51
mneptokgood night, spO.01:52
mneptokthis is not going to be resolved now.01:52
mneptokyou need to wait for jussi_0101:52
mneptokplease leave until then.01:52
mneptoksome context for the morbidly curious: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/261023/01:53
mnainesNo wonder he got kicked out01:59
mnainesHe seems to be the type of person who doesn't even realize what he did was wrong02:00
mnainesI'm willing to hazard a guess that he's a teenager02:00
mnainesYoung and cocky, and like all teenagers, he seems to think everything that happens is someone else's fault02:01
mnainesUnfortunately, I must speak my mind about that and say that society is to blame for that sort of thing...Adults make that same mistake, and their children see that behavior and think it is perfectly acceptable because the adults go unpunished for pointing fingers02:03
mnainesA person not taking responsibility for their actions sets a bad example for their children and for anyone who looks up to them02:04
mnainesFar too many people get away with pointing fingers these days02:05
mnainesIt happens sometimes IRL, too, when men get drunk and a woman ends up pregnant...Some of those men then think its not their kid and that's when things just go downhill02:06
mnainesI've also met teenagers who have an "All women are good for is sex" mentality, and I do my best to stay as far away from them as I can, but it sickens me that there are people like that in this world02:08
mnainesAnd then there are the teenagers who have an "old enough to bleed, old enough to breed" mentality...And their parents think they are perfect little angels who can do no wrong02:09
mnainesThese are the same kind of parents who buy their teenagers high-horsepower hotrods and expect their kids to "drive safely"02:10
mnainesAs a cop once told me..."If you tell the truth, you will still get in trouble, but the consequences will not be as severe as they would be if you lie to me"02:13
mnainesThe cop then said "If you tell me the truth, I may consider letting you go with just a warning"02:13
mnainesThat stemmed from a time I got pulled over for having a broken headlight...I told the cop I had a knife on me and then I told him if he lets me out of the car, I'll prove to him that he can trust me and put the knife on the hood of his car...He obliged and after that, he asked if there were anymore weapons in the car, and when I said no, he told me to tell him the truth, so I gave him consent to search the car and it turned out it was the truth02:16
mnainesAfter everything was all said and done, he wrote me a fix-it ticket for the broken headlight then sent me on my way...I wasn't nailed for carrying a concealed weapon02:17
ubottuPlease keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only; we ask you to part when you have no further business here in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.02:18
mnainesPici: I was waiting to finish my conversation with Flannel about my own banishment...Since he went quiet after mneptok was interrupted, I figured I might as well voice my opinion on what happened02:20
FlannelI'm here, just biding time02:21
mnainesMe, too...I don't believe we have anything more to discuss about my ban, Flannel.  I think it should be clear by now that your questions have been answered02:22
mnainesUnless you still have questions...02:22
Flannelmnaines: So you'll be better about getting input from people in the future, yes?02:23
mnainesI can't make promises, Flannel...I rarely ever do in situations like this because I doubt I can keep them.  All I can say is, I am working as hard as I can to keep myself under control02:24
FlannelAlright.  I'll go ahead and remove the ban, just remember everything that's been covered over the past few days.  Hopefully you won't have to join this channel again in the future.02:25
mnainesIf I do, it should hopefully not be about a ban...02:26
mnainesI may come in here again if incidents like what mneptok had to deal with come up, or if I get wind of malicious users02:27
FlannelRight, you're always welcome to let us know about problems, etc.02:28
FlannelMy comment was just about in this sort of situation, not in general.02:28
FlannelHowever if there's nothing else for us to discuss at the moment, I will ask you please not to idle here.02:29
mnainesVery well02:29
FlannelOh shoot02:30
Flannelforgot to verify his ban is removed02:30
FlannelWell, BT says it is, so I'll go by that02:30
Flanneland of course, can't message him.02:31
* Flannel grumbles.02:31
macohe's in #ubuntu, so it is02:52
FlannelIndeed.  Running at full speed touching as many topics as he can.02:52
FlannelOr he was, he may've slowed down now.  Hopefully.02:53
macohey, clocks. i should learn to use them02:57
bazhangcasa flooding nonsense in #kubuntu03:31
=== stevie is now known as heHATEme
=== heHATEme is now known as vorian
spOi am banned from #ubuntu  , how long am i banned?  i am banned because i was trolling in another channel , #launchpad  ,  i didn't know the two channels were interconnected or that banning in one channel merited banning in another (for reasons of karma or feelings)05:05
spOi am sorry05:05
spOmostly, i thought feelings could be used to justify generousity or caring for others, but i didn't take into account about how feelings of anger or some other related feelings were good justification05:07
spOthis is probably some kind of cultural misunderstanding  ... (hence, also not understadning or taking into account karma based actions)05:08
FlannelspO: While you're here waiting for jussi 01, I'm curious.  Why did you decide to troll #launchpad?05:21
spObecause i thought it would be an entertaining way to part the channel including inhibit my autojoin list05:54
spOie, i wanted to get banned05:54
spOfrom that channel because i have too many opened channels and i need to also inhibit my auto join list05:55
spOi wanted to get banned from that #launchpad , but if i wanted to get banned from any other channel including #ubuntu , i would have trolled in any other channel to,  But i didn't troll in any other channel05:56
spOthus, i was surprised about getting banned from other channels05:56
FlannelspO: So, whenever you decide you don't want to be in a channel anymore, you'll just troll so you get banned?05:56
spOif i don't want to be in a channel anymore and i want to stop autojoining that channel,  getting banned from that channel is one way05:57
spOalternatively i could have asked for a ban rather than trolled05:58
spOor i could have parted and changed my autojoin list05:58
Madpilotmost people just modify their IRC client's startup setup, you know...05:58
spOi guess05:59
ikoniaspO: jussi01 is not around at the moment. Please come back later08:52
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
jussi01ikonia: ping13:14
ubottuIn #ubuntu, Guest20265 said: ubottu:there is no privete message from u14:21
=== vorian is now known as buttercup
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
=== Amaranth is now known as Amaranth__
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
=== Amaranth__ is now known as Amaranth_
ryanakcaIs there anything to do for someone who's been reconnecting to #kubuntu-devel every minute or half or so since 11? (Now 12:47) ... They've stopped for a few minutes, but if/when it restarts...17:48
Amaranthryanakca: find someone in the access list17:54
Amaranthryanakca: looks like they're all away for several hours/days though17:55
Amaranthyou could see if staff would step in, they're on the access list (twice actually)17:56
Amaranthhmm, they're away too17:56
Amaranthryanakca: Looks like the answer is there is nothing we can do right now17:56
nhandlerNeed something?17:56
Amaranthnhandler: Apparently #kubuntu-devel is having some problems with someone with a bad connection and everyone on the access list is gone17:57
AmaranthI guess if they keep up we need a forward to ##fix_your_connection or whatever :P17:57
nhandlerjussi01 might be around17:58
Amaranthidle 3 hours right now but I don't know what timezone17:58
mneptokryanakca: one mo'17:59
nhandlerIf not, and if he continues to have connection problems, I can step in if desired17:59
mneptokryanakca: nick?17:59
* mneptok is on the #k access list17:59
Amaranthmneptok: no you aren't...17:59
Amaranthmneptok: #kubuntu-devel17:59
nhandlerI set a ban forward on him to ##fix_your_connection. Would someone here like to explain the issue to him when he joins there? Otherwise, I can18:16
ubottuIn #ubuntu, newbie12345 said: !bankix yup it is not working18:17
ikonianhandler: no problem18:22
ubottuIn ubottu, syrnux said: !whoami is a command to see which user you are18:23
ryanakcanhandler: thanks18:47
nhandlerryanakca: You are welcome18:48
AlvinwareWhere's the #ubuntu channel now?18:52
Flannel!away > papapep19:54
Flannel!away > Ph`19:54
FlannelAnyone else get a CTCP ping from losher?20:46

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