[00:00] but I can hit the highlights for you guys right now [00:00] robert_ancell, TheMuso anything to add to the agenda? [00:00] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-09-01 [00:00] No [00:00] no [00:01] ok [00:01] so there were no actions from last week, as last week just focused on FF revue [00:01] ken added the partner update to the wiki [00:01] so you can see that there [00:01] ok [00:02] looks like the dekstopcouch fix is available [00:02] also, I was pushing to have xsplash latest and greatest uploaded for tomorrow, but there's a bug holding that up [00:02] so in terms of X [00:03] robert_ancell, this is the 100% bug [00:03] k [00:03] it is believed to be fixed, and a patch added to the kernel today [00:03] and also upstream in the kernel [00:03] bryce believes this will resolve some other bugs as well [00:04] bryce recommends proceeding with mesa 7.6 [00:04] TheMuso, we discussed pulseaudio as well [00:04] last week, my audio went all to heck [00:04] rickspencer3: How so? [00:04] this was bad news for me, as it seemed to be getting better and better [00:05] TheMuso, it was crashing in a loop every 30 seconds or so [00:05] did not work with Firefox [00:05] pedro went through the bugs and did *not* see an increase in incoming reports last week [00:05] right [00:05] furthermore, I did an dist-upgrade today, and audio works perfectly for me again [00:05] Maybe due to new packages from the PPA, that is if you tested them. [00:06] TheMuso, nope [00:06] just stock dist-upgrade [00:06] which came with a new kernel [00:06] so, who knows [00:06] ok [00:06] anyway users are reporting crasher bugs, and Daniel is updating the PPA with snapshots, and also looking into those crashes. [00:07] TheMuso, is there an increase, do you think? [00:07] * TheMuso is really starting to get pissed off that he can't currently use pulse day to day, and hopes to resolve that in the next couple of weeks with speech and audio debugging. [00:07] ah [00:07] No, I don't think so. [00:07] ok, pedro mentioned that were some specific crashers [00:07] Yeah and I wouldn't be surprised if its to do with some CPU SSE optimization code that pulse now has in it. [00:08] I need to talk to Daniel, but I have half a mind to turn those off for now. [00:09] TheMuso, we should do that in an organized manner .. to work with users to specifically test if that fixes their crashes [00:09] Right. [00:10] ok [00:10] so Kubuntu has some good stuff to report [00:10] I'd have to scroll up to get it, though [00:10] most importantly, note that the Kubuntu netbook version is getting quite mature [00:10] if you have a netbook, please test it out [00:11] finally, note that our burn down chart is looking quite good [00:11] If KDE had deacent accessibility, I'd check it out anyway. :) [00:11] we are close to the trend line, and perhaps asac will set some items to "DONE" [00:11] TheMuso, ok [00:11] even 4.3 is not accessible? [00:12] No [00:12] :( [00:12] this concerns me greatly [00:12] Still requires at-spi/dbus integration from KDE side. [00:12] oh my [00:12] It will be a good 12 months at least. [00:13] mm [00:13] ok, so that was the meeting in a nutshell [00:13] Can't do much about it at a distro level atm [00:13] ok cool [00:13] robert_ancell, TheMuso any questions, thoughts? [00:14] no, other than what I mentioned re pulse. [00:14] bring on the release :) [00:14] TheMuso, ok [00:14] robert_ancell, it'll be here before you know it [00:14] alpha 5 should be built tomorrow [00:14] Damn right. [00:14] then UI freeze is just next week [00:15] ok guys [00:15] I need to go take a call, then another call :) [00:15] I'll strive to get the meeting documented on the wiki tonight, but no promises ;) [00:16] ya' know where to find me [00:16] * bryce waves [00:16] yep [00:16] * TheMuso has plenty more debugging to do. :) [00:40] * Amaranth can't wait for the 0.8.3 compiz snapshots to get uploaded to karmic [00:40] the 3 bugs marked as High against compiz are all fixed by it [00:53] Amaranth, sweet [00:56] has anyone else seen a hang while running "xulrunner-1.9.1 --gre-version"? [00:56] in xulrunner's postinst [01:03] reproducible in my build chroot [01:05] so, based on these meeting notes, is it safe to say pitti is a machine and/or does not sleep? :) [01:05] too late to debug now though [01:05] james_w: doesn't hang here and I've not seen it do so during upgrades [01:09] Amaranth, yes, pitti worked about 14 hours a day last week, for each day! [01:14] hey james_w, I haven't seen that hang myself, though I have seen hangs when the couchdb js driver links against the wrong version of xulrunner === rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk [06:46] good morning o/ [07:10] Good morning [07:10] statik: good morning [07:11] statik: seems the merge was done, the proposal is closed [07:11] statik: I'll sponsor this [07:11] rickspencer3-afk, Amaranth: don't expect me to sustain that :) [07:19] statik: ah, james_w already sponsored [07:28] mvo: good morning [07:33] hey rugby471 [07:34] mvo: I will be away from 11:30 till 5, however after that I am sure I could do some work on software-store :-) [07:37] rugby471: cool, I will be there at 5pm :) [07:38] hehe [07:38] mvo: I am also doing a little bit of work making tuxpaint pretty [07:38] it is a great little program [07:39] but the butttons for it are very ugly :-( [07:42] Laney: thanks for uploading the new f-spot :-) [08:04] robert_ancell: You about? [08:04] lool, yup [08:04] robert_ancell: We're trying to get rid of brasero in UNR [08:04] rhythmbox recommends it [08:05] sorry rhythmbox depends on libbrasero-media0 which recommends it [08:05] lool, ah, so it should be suggests then? [08:05] StevenK and I were looking into either splitting the rhythmbox plugin out (/usr/lib/rhythmbox/plugins/cd-recorder/libcd-recorder.so) or dropping the dep [08:05] robert_ancell: Yeah but I'm not sure [08:05] robert_ancell: Does it break anything if you have rhythmbox without brasero? [08:05] Should we rather split the plugin out? [08:06] robert_ancell: Also there's a conflicts on nautilus-cd-burner in libbrasero which I dont quite understand [08:06] It was added when brasero was made the default but I'm not sure it was needed [08:07] robert_ancell: I checked in Debian and there's no recommends/conflicts there [08:07] lool, I don't know for sure but I expect it can would be OK. [08:07] robert_ancell: Ok [08:07] seb128 will know it better than I do [08:07] robert_ancell: What's with sound-juicer? Should we ensure it pulls brasero afterwards or is it ok if we allow installation without brasero? (just libbrasero-media0 installed) [08:07] I don't see why a library needs to recommend an application though - that doesn't seem to make sense [08:08] robert_ancell: ok will check with seb128 thanks [08:08] Joss added a conflict on n-c-b too, but on the brasero package which makes more sense to me [08:22] hello there [08:22] hey seb128, bonjour! [08:22] hey pitti [08:22] guten tag! [08:24] seb128: thanks for uploading the new f-spot, just fixed two papercuts :-) [08:24] rugby471, you're welcome, good [08:27] Hey seb128, would love to grab you once you've processed your morning pings :) [08:27] I'd like to discuss the libbrasero-media0 recommends on brasero [08:28] I don't think I ever touched that package and I've no strong opinion about that [08:28] ie feel free to change it to suggests or drop it [08:28] seb128: Ok there are two ways to change it [08:28] seb128: Currently one RB plugin links to libbraseromedia and sound-juicer too [08:29] which means those applications should recommends the software? [08:29] I wonder whether brasero is really needed when you call into libbraseromedia or whether it's ok if it's not installed [08:29] I don't know that requires testing [08:29] seb128: Exactly so either I split the RB out in a new package which desktop pulls but not unr [08:29] I guess upstream didn't consider the case where distro where splitting the binaries [08:29] Or I just make brasero a suggests [08:29] ie it's likely listing the feature if built with the lib [08:30] I would do a suggests [08:30] and rely on ubuntu-desktop installing it [08:30] Ok; the reason I ask is mostly for sound-juicer since it's not seeded I wanted to make sure it pulls proper deps [08:31] seb128: Is it ok to push brasero nowish? (freeze etc.) [08:31] ask slangasek I would say ;-) [08:31] Eh ok :) [08:32] I expect it will be better to wait after freeze if that's not something you need on alpha builds [08:32] I'll check whether we're oversize [08:33] No it's ok [08:44] seb128: on f-spot: * debian/control, debian/rules: - use a gnome-screensaver build-depends rather than a rules workaround [08:44] seb128: Is there a way I could help avoid this bdep? [08:45] (gnome-screensaver is a bit heavy to pull here and a build just failed because it wasnt installable; I'd love to avoid the bdep if that's possible) [08:50] Hmm it seems f-spot isnt in git for Ubuntu [08:53] lool, no, it's in sync usually I don't bother creating a vcs for a fake sync [08:54] I think update-maintainer should strip Vcs stuff [08:54] lool, yes, you can undo the build depends on add the rules hack which is in debian back [08:54] and build-conflicts on gnome-screensaver [08:54] or work on a proper configure patch to have a configure option [08:55] that's what I had in mind [08:55] it's just that it uses gnome-screensaver.pc right now to get the dir [08:55] lool: I am surprised brasero has been on UNR for this long, since I haven't seen a netbook with a DVD/RW drive yet :-) [08:55] seb128: so the issue is libexec verus lib? [08:55] rugby471: Some people run UNR on laptops though [08:55] rugby471: And you might have an USB burner [08:55] the issue is to know where gnome-screensaver is installed [08:56] But my opinion was overruled a long time ago on keeping brasero :) [08:56] lool: oh really? I didn't realise it was that popular on non-netbooks.. [08:56] seb128: Ok [08:56] the easiest way is to use gnome-screensaver.pc for that [08:56] lool: anyway I'll let you continue :-) [08:56] I'm off for some two hours for some errands [08:56] pitti, see you! [08:57] seb128: there's a --with-gnome-screensaver=PREFIX though [08:57] lool, oh, it's possible, I didn't look at that, the build broke there because the debian hack was moving things from libexec to lib but it was already in lib there [08:58] Ok [08:58] I'll pbuild this stuff and see if it changes the contents [08:58] the reason is that the debian hack assumed that the wrong dir was used because it didn't build-depends on gnome-screensaver [08:58] I'm fine using the configure flag too [08:58] Yeah will prepare a debdiff doing that for after A5 [08:58] lool, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=544204 for the record [08:58] Debian bug 544204 in f-spot "f-spot-screensaver not working" [Minor,Open] [09:00] thanks [09:08] it's only a build-depends isn't it? [09:09] It's a heavy one [09:11] you mean it takes a long time on the buildds? [09:11] It increases the risk that the build-deps break the build and is more painful to build too [09:12] inter apps build-deps are just causing trouble, they raise the requirements a lot [09:12] It makes the build-deps graph much heavier than pure libs bdeps [09:13] rugby471: are the bugs really fixed! did you check? [09:13] alright I don't really mind [09:13] but if you want to sort out a patch [09:14] Laney: I started looking into it because f-spot failed to build on armel due to g-s being uninstallable; it raised my eyebrows that g-s was used as a bdep [09:14] Laney: Oh sure [09:14] mac_v: yup, the f-spot ones are [09:14] Laney: I'm still updating my pbuilder right now to give it a try [09:14] ok [09:14] rugby471: the app icons? i dont see it fixed [09:14] you can apply it straight in git [09:14] mvo, hey [09:14] if you have access [09:15] mac_v: the app icons? [09:15] mvo, do you think we could try to filter bug #423024 out [09:15] Launchpad bug 423024 in gnome-applets "package gnome-applets-data 2.26.0-0ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: corrupted filesystem tarfile - corrupted package archive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423024 [09:15] mvo, the "corrupted filesystem tarfile - corrupted package archive" ones are usually not packages errrors [09:15] errors [09:15] rugby471: yes , the icons dont show up for the first context menu item. [09:16] Laney: You want a patch against Debian's git or against the Ubuntu package? [09:16] Debian please [09:16] k [09:16] we havent uploaded it there yet [09:16] mac_v: ah that one, I was going through the paper cuts this morning and launchpad said it has been fixed in the package so I simply marked it fixed in the papercuts project [09:16] can you put it on the bug report? [09:16] Yeha I saw it was the last commit and tagged pending [09:17] Laney: sure [09:17] thanks [09:17] mac_v: this may have something to do with gnome not allowing icons in buttons/menu items etc. [09:17] rugby471: pls dont do that! , check and then change :( [09:17] sorry :-( [09:18] mac_v: if it hasn't been fixed, then it should have been unmarked in the package [09:18] mac_v: I was simply copying over that status to the parcuts project, however next time I shall test :-) [09:19] rugby471: ;) [09:25] rugby471: are you on karmic? [09:26] mac_v: nope but I have a karmic virtual machine [09:27] rugby471: could you check this on the VM? the first option does not show the icon... or maybe it is a bug in my etup [09:27] setup* [09:27] mac_v: sure [09:31] mac_v: when you say the first option, could you do a screenshot? [09:32] rugby471: you can take a screenshot of a context menu in an install ;) [09:32] in vm you can ;p [09:32] fine :-) [09:33] seb128: let me have a look (sorry, busy, busy, busy with app-center) [09:33] mvo, no problem ;-) [09:33] rugby471: first option i mean the > Open with APPNAME ,the default option which opens the item on double click, above the separator [09:35] mac_v: http://imagebin.org/62106 [09:36] yup I think the first application not having an icon is becuase of the gnome thing [09:36] so its not fixed properly! [09:37] mac_v: about the ~/Downloads papercut I appreciate what you are saying, however the original papercut was to fix the downloads location, that has been fixed, that is why I closed the bug. I think it is best to consult with David Siegel [09:37] mac_v: yup it is a regression [09:37] mac_v: wait what is the bug number of the menu item one? [09:38] rugby471: i'm part of the papercuts team ;p [09:38] what are the discussions about there? [09:38] yup but I was talking to him and he mentioned about bugs like that, where we need to fix the original request and then mark as fixed [09:38] seems you guy list several issues in one bug [09:38] seb128: > Bug #387796 [09:38] Launchpad bug 387796 in nautilus "Display application icons for "Open With" entries in the context-menu" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387796 [09:38] that leads to such issues [09:39] mac_v, that bug is fixed [09:39] seb128: i got confused, wait [09:39] seb128: the first issue, about XDG Downloads needing to be mapped to ~/Downloads is done [09:39] seb128: the concern is now, that the Downloads directory needs ot be bookmarked in gnome [09:40] "bookmarked"? [09:40] however that pushes the bookmarks in the Gnome panel menu into a seperate menu [09:40] (XDG bookmarks in the nautilus sidebar) [09:40] so there are really 3 issues [09:40] XDG Downloads needs to be ~/Downloads - done [09:41] should ~/Downloads be bookmarked? [09:41] bookmarked in the gtk sense? [09:41] ie added to .gtk-bookmarks? [09:41] the gnome-panel bookmarks list limit needs to be bumped up/other bookmarks such as Ubuntu One need to be deleted [09:42] yup [09:42] seb128: sorry not xdg, gtk bookmarks :-) [09:42] rugby471: seb128: when a bug get filed , the OP does not realize the seideffects of what he is proposing , so the bug affects other projects also , hence it spans over 2/3 projects [09:43] yup [09:43] mac_v, that's fine so you should have 2-3 taks [09:43] tasks [09:43] however the bug is crowded with three seperate discussins [09:43] yup [09:43] seb128: pitti had the panel bookmark bug assined it to you [09:43] assigned [09:44] mac_v, well I did sponsor the xdg-user-dirs change to make Download be the desktop by default [09:44] which was what the bug was about [09:44] If the downloads are simply sent to the downloads folder , this makes it harder ,than earlier, to access the downoads. , hence needs a bookmark [09:44] downloads* [09:45] mac_v, well, step 1 would be to a have clear bug summaries [09:45] seb128: you guys are both correct, mac_v is concerned about a regression becuase of the original bug however seb128 is correct in that they should be filed as seperate bugs [09:45] rugby471 - i was going to work on a change for the places menu that dynamically adjusted the maximum number of items based on vertical screen size, and only collapsed the least used entries in to a submenu when there are too many items, but i never got round to starting it :( [09:45] seb128: i agree , on the summaries part :) [09:45] (i assume that's what you were talking about) [09:46] mac_v, the summary says [09:46] "This folder should be the default download location for firefox and this folder should be bookmarked in nautilus by xdg-user-dirs-gtk (like Music,Videos,Pictures and Documents)." [09:46] chrisccoulson: yup, that sounds cool, however if you don't get round to it don't worry, we can just do an arbitary limit [09:46] and it's the default now [09:46] and in the xdg folders list [09:47] seb128: the OP did not realize the sideffects of what he is proposing , so should th summary be changed? [09:47] rugby471 - yeah, it would be nice to get round to doing it but i don't have much time at the moment. i should book some more time off work to work on it really ;) [09:47] mac_v, I would expect your teams to figure that sort of things and set a clear summary of changes required before setting it as hundredpapercut to fix for us [09:47] chrisccoulson: not enough time, that is always the problem :-) [09:47] mac_v, I would expect your teams to figure that sort of things and set a clear summary of changes required before setting it as hundredpapercut to fix for us otherwise you get such issues [09:47] seb128: actually we were discussing about the bug status *only* in papercuts , not the xdg [09:48] mac_v, ok, I will stay away from this discussion then ;-) [09:48] seb128: hehe [09:48] mac_v, but for the record I would have closed it too because what the summary requires has been changed [09:48] seb128: you are true. about the goals :) [09:49] seb128: what is the status on the icons in buttons etc. in gnome in ubuntu? [09:49] seb128 - any ideas what we can do about bug 422568? the original issue reported by c_korn was due to version skew between gnome-panel and gnome-panel-data, but it seems like there is a real issue after upgrading too [09:49] Launchpad bug 422568 in gnome-panel "could not find glade file '/usr/share/gnome-panel/glade/clock.glade'" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/422568 [09:49] seb128: some papercuts have been fixed but then regressed becuase of this, are we going to have icons or not? [09:49] rugby471, we changed that as GNOME did a month ago to not display icons by default [09:49] ok [09:49] seb128: > Bug #387796 the nautilus app icon bug has a side effect , the first option[the default choice ] is not showing an icon [09:49] Launchpad bug 387796 in nautilus "Display application icons for "Open With" entries in the context-menu" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387796 [09:49] seb128: so what do we do with those bugs? [09:49] mark them won't fix? [09:50] mac_v, that's a new bug, open a nautilus bug about this [09:50] seb128: oh ok [09:50] kl [09:50] rugby471, that's still an user setting, the bugs are still true for those enabling icons no? [09:50] sorry I don't know [09:50] for example [09:50] there was papaercut saying that the close icon in firefox looked weird [09:51] it was fixed [09:51] but then the icons thing form gnome came in [09:51] so what do we do with the bug becuase now there is no icon [09:52] form > from, becuase > because [09:53] seb128: the xdg bug , shouldnt the ~/Downloads be listed in the side pane? [09:53] or is it just creation of a ~/Downloads folder? [09:53] I need to check [09:53] bookmarks are only created on the first login [09:53] ie need to try with a stock user [09:54] they are not going to change for users who customized their settings [09:54] because there is no way to know if the user deleted the bookmark or never got it [09:54] oh! , then again a separate bug! [09:54] and you don't want to keep adding a bookmark the user deleted [09:54] hehe [09:54] no, a feature [09:55] the ~/Downloads wont be show for users upgrading :( [09:55] shown* [09:55] mac_v: yup that is how we have to do it [09:55] mac_v: same with the f-spot XDG_PICTURE_DIR/Photos bug [09:56] how do we fix it? a single bug for both? [09:56] otherwise you get loads of breakages/annoyance from users that have ahd their settings changed [09:56] seb128: cant it be done like the indicator applet? only add folders on first run? [09:56] mac_v, I would say it's not really a bug [09:56] anyway I need to do some work after that discussion :-) === rugby471 is now known as rugby471|hmwork [09:56] mac_v, I guess we could try something like that [09:57] I'm not a big fan to keep adding such wrapper to the session [09:57] for one thing we have no way to drop it [09:57] so this code has to run at every login until end of time [09:57] just to check that there is nothing to do and exit [09:57] but still it's an useless application listed in the startup list [09:57] it takes login time [09:57] etc [09:57] oh :( , cant it be removed? after first run? [09:58] we could probably figure something [09:58] but you keep asking for thing we don't do now [09:58] and everybody is already overworked [09:58] hehe ;) [09:58] rugby471|hmwork: wanna do that^? [09:59] I would rather us to try to address this issue for good as some point [09:59] it making the upgrade tool do such changes or something [09:59] oh ok [09:59] it -> ie [09:59] hehe I'll let someone else :-) [10:00] seb128: upgrade tool would be nice [10:00] :) [10:00] mac_v, we have some hundred thousand items of would be nice things to do ;-) [10:00] true ;) [10:02] didrocks, hey [10:02] didrocks, did you start on the gobject-introspection update? [10:02] hey seb128 [10:02] seb128: yes, it should be ok this evening [10:02] didrocks: great session yesterday, I didn't realise it was e [10:02] easier to update a package that I though [10:02] t [10:02] rugby471|hmwork: thanks :) [10:03] * rugby471|hmwork "Stupid enter key.." [10:03] didrocks, hum ok [10:03] I have to find something else to do then [10:03] I started on upgrading gnome-shell but it's blocked on that [10:03] didrocks, how was your udw session yesterday? [10:03] seb128: sorry to remove your work :) [10:03] heh [10:04] seb128: great thanks, a lot of questions and interested people :) [10:04] didrocks, it doesn't remove my work, it blocks my work, that's different ;-) [10:04] ie I want to update gnome-shell but I need the new gobject first [10:04] nice [10:04] seb128: what symbols did I wrongly add to the libpurple symbols file? [10:05] seb128: if you want, I can finish the job now, but not sure that I can test it extensively before this evening [10:05] debfx, let me look again, but wc -l says about 300 of those [10:05] didrocks, who cares about testing? ;-) [10:05] nothing uses it out of gnome-shell and I will test it there [10:05] seb128: compared to what? [10:06] debfx, compared to 2.6.1-2 from debian [10:06] seb128: ok, I'll finish during lunch so :-) [10:06] that's because ubuntu also includes the libgnt symbols [10:08] bah [10:08] LP no longer shows changelogs up front on package pages [10:08] debfx, is there any reason why it does? [10:08] Laney, what do you mean? [10:09] I have to expand some stuff now to see changelogs [10:09] eg https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/f-spot [10:09] debfx, your .symbols has " g_hash_table_duplicate@Base 1:2.6.1" for example [10:09] debfx, and that's not a libpurple symbol [10:10] Laney, use "view full changelog" in the sidebar [10:11] right [10:12] seb128: g_hash_table_duplicate is a libgnt symbol http://developer.pidgin.im/doxygen/dev/html/gntutils_8h.html#1a59e8b19bfca4c11339aaa672adc256 [10:13] debfx, right, not a libpurple one [10:14] debfx, I think we should follow debian and just list libpurple symbols there [10:14] seb128: yeah I'm not really sure why libgnt has been added to the libpurple symbols file [10:14] that's the same version than debian [10:14]