[00:11] smoser: incidentally, does the UEC image generation process also create a file list for the image? === c_korn is now known as Turl3 [00:12] if so, it would be nice to have that published next to the images, so we can see when things are out of date [00:12] slangasek, you mean like 'find /' ? [00:12] it does not [00:12] smoser: a list of the .debs that went into it [00:12] (with versions) [00:12] this is standard output for the livefs buildd jobs [00:12] so perhaps it exists somewhere but you're just not grabbing it at present [00:13] (they're called foo.manifest when they're generated with the livefs) [00:13] i dont know. i'll poke around. === Turl3 is now known as c_korn [00:13] eu karmic-x86_64-alpha5: ami-9e6249ea [00:14] eu karmic-i386-alpha5: ami-986249ec [00:14] slangasek, ^^ (those are eu ami ids) [00:14] posted to the tracker [00:14] how's the image testing going, so far? [00:15] (no results posted to the tracker, so I have no idea if these images are good or if we're facing more re-rolls and a delay in the alpha publishing) [00:21] slangasek, i really have only sniff tested so far. been struggling with the publish and such. i will run through the testing. [00:21] and updated tracker [00:21] ok === ttx_ is now known as ttx [00:43] cody-somerville: xubuntu images are available for testing for alpha5, if you haven't seen [00:43] thanks [00:44] luisbg, TheMuso: likewise for ubuntustudio [00:44] superm1: and also for mythbuntu [00:44] slangasek: Saw the tracker email earlier, getting ready to test now. [00:44] ok [00:59] smoser: you consider http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/2960/339 a failed test due to bug #419306? [00:59] Launchpad bug 419306 in python-boto "boto.utils.get_instance_userdata() hangs for a long time if no userdata is provided" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/419306 [01:00] smoser: is there no workaround for that bug? [01:00] (or did the test fail for other reasons?) [01:01] slangasek, it is easily worked around [01:02] how do i show that? [01:02] i was really just trying to mark a bug. and hit save to say "known bug" . but i think i registered 'fail' [01:02] smoser: there's a "Result:" field, click it to 'passed' instead of 'failed' [01:02] (and then put something in comments, if you like) [01:03] am i able to edit existing ? or does each time i do it add a new 'run' of the tests? [01:03] smoser: it only lets you edit the existing [01:03] (AFAIK) [01:03] oh, or you may need to click on the magnifying glass on the far end of the row [01:03] smoser: ^^ [01:04] LaserJock: hi - you disappeared before I could respond to your edubuntu seed inquiry this morning [01:04] slangasek: sorry about that [01:04] LaserJock: are the current seeds suitable for testing as an alpha5 candidate? [01:05] slangasek: not really [01:05] the problem is that the Edubuntu DVD is just building from Ubuntu's DVD seed [01:05] oh, there's not a separate edubuntu seed pod? [01:06] as edubuntu.karmic doesn't yet have it's own seed (that's what I'm trying to add) [01:06] there is [01:06] but it depends on Ubuntu's seed pod [01:06] or inherits is maybe a better term [01:06] adding edubuntu.karmic doesn't seem like it should disrupt anything else? [01:07] edubuntu.karmic exits, it just doesn't have a dvd seed in it [01:07] (if there's cdimage work to be done yet to get it working correctly, we may run out of time for including it in the alpha; but it doesn't sound like you're changing things that will disrupt other images) [01:07] so I *think*, worst case scenario, I screw up the seed and the Edubuntu DVD build is crap [01:07] right [01:07] the cdimage work is already done [01:07] I think you should definitely go for it then [01:08] ok [01:08] let me know though if for some unforeseeable reason it causes a problem [01:09] if you need to make changes to the *ubuntu* seed pod, we should discuss specifics first [01:09] but if you're only changing your own, go for it [01:09] yeah, only edubuntu.karmic [01:12] smoser: thanks for the comment there - it seems like this is something we probably want to include in the Tech Overview as errata, yes? [01:13] absolutely [01:13] zul, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build//all [01:13] slangasek, so why does that say 1(2) [01:14] smoser: there are two tests for the image, we have test results for one of them [01:15] (I guess you mean "1/2" rather than "1(2)", right?) [01:15] ah. ok. i was thinking that was 1 of 2 failed [01:15] y [01:15] failures are put in parens afterwards if any [01:22] The requested instance type's architecture (i386) does not match the architecture in the manifest for ari-8e9bb3fa (x86_64) [01:23] zul: what ami is that? That's not one of the ones posted to the tracker for alpha5 [01:23] slangasek: its the eu one smoser is looking at it [01:24] zul: ari-8e9bb3fa is not the eu one smoser gave me to post to the tracker [01:25] slangasek, zul's pasted the ari [01:26] but the ami needs to be 'fixeed'. i must have published it wrong [01:26] i'll fix that [01:26] ah [01:49] s it just me, or is grub not responding to an escape key press? [01:49] hold shfit [01:49] shift [01:49] oh ok [01:49] and see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicBootExperienceDesignSpec#Bootloader [01:51] slangasek, unfortunately will need a re-roll after mythtv publishes again. there was a problem with a hardcoded filename in a postinst somewhere [01:51] superm1: so we're looking for -0ubuntu3? [01:52] slangasek, yeah. just uploaded it a few minutes ago [01:52] superm1: ok, queued up [01:53] thanks [01:54] anyone home 0_o? [01:57] I'm at home, not sure about other people [01:59] slangasek, ami-846249f0 [01:59] LaserJock, can you help me set my /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/cryptroot. file [01:59] or point me in the right direction. [02:00] smoser: which one does that replace? [02:00] the people in #ubuntu have no clue when it comes to more advanced problems..... my system wont boot [02:00] eu-i386 [02:00] by the way why is sun java jre 1.0.14 the latest in the repos? [02:01] smoser, zul: published to the tracker [02:01] 1.6.0.16 is out === robbiew is now known as robbiew-dinner [02:19] slangasek: Hrm I think studio alphas are a bust, due to some weird behavior with the RT kernel. Unless I can find a fix soonish, I'm going to have to say we'll have to pass this time around. [02:20] TheMuso: ok; can you please mark the test as failed in the tracker? [02:20] slangasek: sure [02:23] * TheMuso tries i386 as well to see if both arches are affected. === rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk [04:31] mathiaz, ping [04:31] foxbuntu: hi [04:32] mathiaz, hello, I was wondering if you knew about the mysql-server-5.1 issue yet? [04:32] ...more specificly that it doesnt install/upgrade from 5.0 properly [04:32] foxbuntu: I know of a couple of mysql-server-5.1 issue [04:32] foxbuntu: under which circumstances? what is the error message? [04:32] foxbuntu: is there a bug? [04:33] mathiaz, not yet..I wanted to get your thoughts on it and then if its indeed a bug I will gladly file it for you [04:33] mathiaz, let me get logs for you [04:34] mathiaz, http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/m7e507c83 [04:34] mathiaz, this is what I am seeing [04:34] foxbuntu: how are you upgrading the system? apt-get dist-upgrade? [04:34] yes [04:35] foxbuntu: bug 413789 [04:35] Launchpad bug 413789 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 "mysql-server has been kept back with dist-upgrading" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/413789 [04:35] mathiaz, ah...looks like it [04:37] mathiaz, your the man :) [04:37] right on top of it. [04:37] thats all I wanted :) === ecanto is now known as edson === fdd is now known as Guest29095 === freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying [06:46] good morning === NCommander is now known as Guest14048 [07:47] Good morning === enrico_ is now known as enrico [08:42] pitti ping [08:42] pitti: bryce: just offhand, would you happen to remember doing a sync-and-discard of our xlib patches ? [08:45] lifeless, xlib? not offhand [08:48] hey lifeless [08:54] hey bryce [08:54] heya tseliot [08:57] hi pitti :) [08:57] for some reason my dreaded 'not supported by xlib' locale errors are back; I'm investigating. [08:58] the patch is still there and in the series, but something's not right. [08:58] errare linuxum est? [09:00] that reminds me, vocab practice time ;) === Madkiss_ is now known as Madkiss === saispo_ is now known as saispo === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [09:13] superm1: the mythbuntu respin did get posted; not sure who's going to be testing those? [09:22] slangasek: I'd say I would but I'm a bit busy with all the others :) [09:23] * slangasek nods - well, it'll be some hours before superm1 is around, we'll see what happens === masACC is now known as maswan [11:03] hey guys [11:04] Now that udev/devicekit handles storage devices, should hal be uninstalled? [11:04] is there any documentation on how to use notify-osd to display messages? [11:10] slytherin: it should be marked as a candidate for autoremoval for you when the time comes; in the meantime I wouldn't second guess it :) [11:11] hello [11:11] sorry to ask this here but no one seems to know anything in the regular channel. i'm getting this error on installing xubuntu 9.04 amd64: "Executing 'grub-install (hd0)' failed. This is a fatal error" [11:11] slangasek: I am having some problem with the DVD drive getting recognized. I was wondering if hal-storage is interfering with udev. [11:12] at 94% done [11:12] slytherin: well you can try removing it for debugging to see if it makes a difference; either way it warrants a bug report [11:12] the md5sum of the cd checks out [11:12] ubuntu: please change your nick to something less generic. That's also a rather generic error message unfortunately; there should be more information in /var/log/syslog or possibly /var/log/installer/debug [11:12] is there any documentation on how to use notify-osd to display messages? [11:12] slangasek: A bug is already open. I have added info that keybuk asked. === ubuntu is now known as lg [11:15] cjwatson, snippet from /var/log/syslog: http://codepad.org/hkrCzwza [11:16] d3xter: lots. seee [11:16] cjwatson, similar errors in /var/log/installer/debug [11:16] .. search google for notify osd development fuideline wiki or something [11:16] *guideline [11:17] tgpraveen: ok, thx [11:28] cjwatson, ok i'll try with karmic then. can you point me to the release you'd like me to try? [11:28] we're not putting much more effort into GRUB Legacy (as in 9.04), but if GRUB 2 still gets it wrong then we'll want to debug that [11:28] * slangasek blinks [11:28] "gnome-terminal wants to install a font\n An additional font is required to view this document correctly." [11:28] lg: you might as well go for http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/, which is very close to what we'll shortly be releasing as Alpha 5 [11:28] cjwatson, will do [11:28] no thanks, I'm ok with not being able to read the spam [11:28] lg: thanks a lot [11:29] Hi, Anybody know where is gsize defined in glib-2.*? [11:29] it is referenced some where but I can not find the definition [11:31] yuanyelele, http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/unstable/glib-Basic-Types.html#gsize [11:32] for glib related questions you may want to try irc.gnome.org/#glib or #gtk [11:33] well , I cannot find this line "typedef unsigned long gsize;" in any file.. [11:33] ah [11:33] sorry but there are few people in those channels.... [11:33] i dont have the headers on hand but.. have you tried to cd into /usr/include and then do a grep -ri "typedef unsigned long gsize" ? [11:34] yes, it's in glib-1.2, but not in glib-2.0 [11:35] it's in /usr/lib/glib-2.0/include/glibconfig.h [11:35] Oh thank you! [11:36] what an odd spot for the headers [11:36] The point is why online api does not cite this file? [11:36] uit [11:37] hmm [11:38] how will i be able to burn a disc from a box with 1 cd drive (while running the live cd)? [11:38] lg: that may be a challenge [11:38] d3xter: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines [11:39] yuanyelele: the existence of that file isn't part of the advertised API, I assume; what the API documentation says is that if you include then you get gsize [11:40] lg: odd spot> IIRC, it's the architecture-dependent bit of the headers [11:40] ah yes that would explain it [11:41] Thank you~~ [11:48] arg, cant unmount cdrom, says its busy [11:57] ok, got it burnt somehow. gonna try installing. will be back [12:03] tgpraveen: thx, i've found this already [12:03] hello [12:07] on another box now. currently installing karmic on the other. [12:08] btw, i like the encryption option in the installer [12:21] ogra: do you happen to know about a good guide how to setup cross compiling for ARM? [12:21] ogra: (I already know https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BuildEABIChroot, that's an excellent thing) [12:22] pitti, what do you want to cross complie ? [12:22] ogra: myself nothing, but a friend of a friend wants to do that (he'll give me a call soon) [12:22] if its a kernel, amitk's blog is great, for all other stuff i'd use a chroot or qemu, else you get into dependency hell [12:22] pitti, hal is not more a hard dependency in gnome-power-manager, see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=593933 [12:22] Gnome bug 593933 in general "Get rid of HAL" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] [12:23] ogra: oh, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Toolchain/Crosscompilers/ARMEABIToolchain looks promising, too, I'll send this to him as well [12:23] jjardon: right, I know, but still needed for brightness support on some hardware [12:23] pitti, si, the problem is in graphics drivers? [12:23] s/si/so [12:23] pitti, well, you can also use a prebuild toolchain from codesourcery ... but if you do more than kernels it gets hairy [12:24] since you need to build every piece of the build deps [12:24] pitti: step 1) implement multiarch! :) [12:24] jjardon: yes, and kernel; e. g. many nvidia cards need smartdimmer, and the kernel doesn't provide a standard API for those, so userspace has to hack around [12:25] slangasek, qemu-static-$arch FTW :) use chroots ;) [12:25] pitti, i've done some cross compiling in the openembedded environment. it seems like it was designed to 'take care of the deps' for you [12:25] nvidia closed or open source drivers? [12:25] ogra: pff, chroots [12:25] slangasek, i dont see multiarch->arm happening soon :) [12:25] or multiarch ppc [12:25] ogra: right, I think a qemu-arm-static chroot is pretty rad [12:25] cjwatson, got an error installing the latest karmic [12:26] ogra: um, it will happen the same time as the rest of multiarch [12:26] pitti, yeah, sadly still has issues ... and doesnt really help complier speed ... [12:26] (which is not in karmic, unfortunately [12:26] ) [12:26] jjardon: I don't actually think it matters [12:26] cjwatson, "An error occurred while installing packages: E:Sub-process dpkg returned an error code (1)" etc. [12:27] lg: doesn't sound grub-related; can I see the full logs? [12:27] cjwatson, this was at ~119% [12:27] slangasek, hmm, how would that work without translation layer if your CPU syscalls differ as much as between x86 and armel [12:27] jjardon: thanks for your upstream patch, though; so if we really need some day, we could disable support for it [12:27] cjwatson, sure [12:27] lg: *cough* yeah, the progress percentages are apparently a bit broken right now [12:27] ogra: binfmt_misc plus qemu? [12:28] that's the standard handwavy answer for this anyway ... [12:28] cjwatson, well, so what i do with qemu-arm-static already then [12:28] cjwatson, got the same error again at 126%, but it appeared to have successfully done grub-install [12:28] ogra: no, because you don't have to have a full chroot and run all the executables under emulation [12:29] so you get about a mumble percent speed-up from being able to run a bunch of stuff natively [12:29] slangasek, yeah, i know, thats what qemu-arm-static already does ... but it *additionally* ships a wrapper to debootstrap that copies the static binary into a chroot if you build one [12:30] it registers with binfmt_misc and all that but for a native build env its better to have a clean chroot [12:30] which is why i added the debootstrrap wrapper script to the package as well [12:30] -r [12:31] cjwatson, at the end it gave 'installation complete' and now its rebooting. can i still get at the logs? [12:31] lg: they should be in /var/log/installer/ after installation [12:31] ok [12:32] does anyone know where the "Loading, please wait" message comes from while grub is booting the kernel? I'd love to get rid of it, but for the life of me I can't actually find it anyway [12:32] anywhere [12:32] cjwatson, isnt that initramfs ? [12:32] cjwatson: grub 1 or 2? [12:33] slangasek: 2 [12:33] cjwatson: top of initramfs [12:33] /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init [12:33] aha, good call [12:33] wing-commander scott% grep -n Loading /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init [12:33] 3:echo "Loading, please wait..." [12:33] didn't even think to look there [12:33] shall we just have that check the quiet flag? [12:33] cjwatson, on boot the checkinig root file system failed. superblock last mount time is in the future.... unexpected inconsistency: run fsck manually, root fs is mounted in read-only mode... mantenance shell [12:34] btw, while i have all people that might be intrested in that here, how about modularizing casper a bit ? [12:34] lg: right, we know about that one - run fsck manually as it directs (you'll need to tell it the device to use), then exit the shell and let it reboot [12:34] currently all casper-bottom scripts contain all hacks for all falvours we have [12:34] ok [12:34] *flavours [12:34] ogra: I'd be interested in making casper work with dracut ;) [12:34] which means a lot of unneeded filesystem acesses on already slow media [12:35] I confess to not really being interested [12:35] i would like to have a casper-ubuntu, casper-xubuntu etc setup that contains the flavour specific scripts [12:35] and only dumps in place whats really needed for a live flavour [12:36] i see 2min boots on armel and see a lot of filesystem accesses i dont really need [12:36] (2min for the livefs) [12:36] ogra: sounds like a UDS-L spec to me [12:36] beyond that casper carries a huge amount of old cruft that should really see a cleanup [12:36] Keybuk, yep, that was my idea [12:37] I'll bring the Proton Pack [12:37] Keybuk: do you have some time when you could explain /lib/udev/{pci,usb}-db to me? [12:37] heh [12:37] another thing i'd love to do would be to decouple the live squashfs from /lib/modules [12:37] slangasek: don't they just parse pci.ids and usb.ids ? [12:37] cjwatson, on reboot, the session icon is not available :/ [12:37] Keybuk: yes - why in God's name are they doing this? [12:38] lg: session icon? [12:38] Keybuk: i.e., why is it udev's job to import a text database into its environment for use by third-party programs? [12:38] slangasek: to generate comments [12:38] splitting it in two squashfs mounted stacked ... so we only need one generic file plus one for the modules dir [12:38] cjwatson, on the login screen. [12:38] cjwatson, but i guess this is not the final product yet [12:38] lg: sorry, I'm missing something, what session icon were you expecting? [12:39] cjwatson, well i see a red x in front of the "session:" label so i figure the icon link is bad [12:39] slangasek: basically HAL replacement stuff really [12:39] lg: ah - well, I can't offer help with desktop-level issues, my main interest is that it managed to boot, which it does seem to have done :) [12:39] Keybuk: oh? comments where? (the reason I care about this is because udev is violating the FHS by assuming /usr is available when it runs this stuff, and I'm trying to figure out how serious it is) [12:39] lg: best just file a bug about that sort of thing [12:40] slangasek: various places [12:40] slangasek: aren't those files in /var/lib/misc? :) [12:40] cjwatson, btw, whats the status of usplash wrt live images ? i guess we'll keep it there ? [12:40] cjwatson, you want /var/log/installer/syslog? [12:41] they seem to move back and forth between /usr and /var depending on which way the wind is blowing [12:41] Keybuk: meh, /var is also allowed to be a separate partition, so it's still an FHS violation [12:41] Keybuk: also, for further enjoyment, see strings /lib/udev/pci-db |grep ids [12:41] I'm pretty sure that's not the PCI id db [12:41] ogra: I don't know [12:42] lg: yeah [12:42] lg: BTW, anything involving /var/log/installer/syslog is a separate bug from that missing session icon ... [12:42] but you're right that udev shouldn't be accessing files in either of those places [12:42] sure iz buggy [12:42] cjwatson, yes i see. i just thought i would mention it :P [12:42] that's fine [12:43] ogra: live images aren't really a target for the boot performance work, to the best of my knowledge; I don't know about boot experience [12:43] but since the latter kind of depends on the former ... [12:43] cjwatson, http://pastebin.com/f2b7b0677 [12:43] yeah [12:43] Keybuk: well, I don't care if udev accesses them, as long as nothing else further up /relies/ on udev having been able to access them ;) so I'm wondering if it's just cosmetic, or if we need to move these databases to /lib (blech), or if I can persuade someone that this architecture is fubar and things that want text strings should bloody well fetch them elsewhere instead of expecting udev to have it [12:43] slangasek: looks like it's all HALsectomy stuff [12:44] i just want to know if i need to special case armel somehow ... we now have usplash working [12:44] and the boot in live as well as instealled systems is slow enough to validate keeping usplash all over the place [12:44] lg: yecch, openoffice.org bug, no idea what that is [12:44] pitti, Do you know the video drivers that still not support XBACKLIGHT? maybe we can file bugs for this [12:45] lg: can you please report a bug on openoffice.org, attaching that syslog and pointing to the bit in it where openoffice.org-filter-binfilter fails? [12:45] mathiaz: ping [12:45] lg: oh, wait, there might already be one [12:45] jjardon: not exactly, but I guess everything except intel and perhaps nouveau [12:46] cjwatson, i got about 3 other errors during the install as well [12:46] jjardon: Richard would know better, I don't really know this I'm afraid [12:46] cjwatson, oh hmm, i guess they were all from openoffice [12:46] lg: there are a couple of *similar* existing bugs but they aren't quite the same; I think it would be best to report a fresh one [12:46] cjwatson, ok sure [12:46] bug 423588, bug 423249 [12:47] Launchpad bug 423588 in openoffice.org "package openoffice.org-filter-binfilter 1:3.1.1~rc1-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423588 [12:47] Launchpad bug 423249 in openoffice.org "package openoffice.org-filter-binfilter 1:3.1.1~rc1-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: 子进程新的 pre-installation 脚本返回了错误号 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423249 [12:47] pitti, ok, I'll take a look. Richard, the g-p-m devel? [12:47] cjwatson, lets see if i can remember my launchpad credentials [12:47] jjardon: right [12:47] lg: all your dpkg errors were from the installer repeatedly trying to hammer openoffice.org-filter-binfilter into place and failing, at least [12:47] Keybuk: ok, so you haven't seen any discussions about this stuff specifically? any idea where I need to look to chase this up? (Md said I should post to linux-hotplug, but I'm hoping to get some context first) [12:48] pitti, great, I'll ast him then, thank you! [12:48] as in, udev has to have it, because the things further up might not have permission to look it up themselves [12:48] also looks like udev tries to use them to decide things about sound cards [12:48] which is obviously not going to work when /usr or /var are separate [12:48] Keybuk: does http://paste.ubuntu.com/264016/ look potentially OK to you, for the clock problems? [12:48] still need to test that === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [12:49] Keybuk: I don't follow... surely udev could give the further-up-bits the ID instead of the text string, and the file to do their own lookups should be world-readable? [12:49] (a root-only pci.ids seems like an uninteresting use case) [12:51] /lib/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules> meh, lovely [12:51] slangasek: no, I had to look it up when you mentioned it [12:51] so linux-hotplug would be a good place to start [12:51] slangasek: yes, though oddly udev doesn't do that because the id is in the sysfs tree ;) [12:51] I think it's more than udev matches on this stuff itself [12:51] cf. sound cards [12:51] pitti might know a bit more about this stuff since it probably touches ACLs or DeviceKit [12:51] but it not, linux-hotplig [12:51] cjwatson: that looks right [12:51] cjwatson: though maybe UTC=--localtime in the other case [12:51] cjwatson: since whether hwclock defaults to localtime or utc depends largely on the time of day ;) [12:51] pitti: ^^ hi, what can you tell me about this udev madness in connection with HALsectomy? :) [12:51] slangasek: just reading scrollback [12:52] ok :) [12:52] Keybuk: mm, right [12:52] slangasek: hm, what was the original question? [12:52] Keybuk: (literally, probably!) [12:53] pitti: why is udev upstream doing mad things that violate the FHS? [12:53] :) [12:53] slangasek: do you expect a technical answer to that? :-) [12:53] pitti: /lib/udev/{usb,pci}-db look in /usr (or /var) for databases and suck that information into their environment - that's an FHS violation, and it needs fixing [12:53] slangasek: what is it, requiring pci.ids and usb.ids from /usr to work? [12:53] yes [12:53] ah [12:54] (separately, our build of pci-db is amusingly broken, and only looks at the usb database) [12:54] I wouldn't mind having them in /lib [12:54] (I can think of at least one program in the archive which is (a) not explicitly a calendaring application and (b) whose behaviour actually does depend on the phase of the moon) [12:55] not that it matters much, I suppose; did anyone actually try running ubuntu with a separate /usr? [12:55] nethack? [12:55] or, rather, a separate /var [12:55] Laney: that was the one I had in mind, yes :) [12:55] cjwatson, isnt that 423588 the same bug? [12:56] pitti: er, I have a separate /usr here. *both* are supported configurations under the FHS, and cjwatson just did extensive work in jaunty to support split /usr [12:56] lg: that's a preinst failure, but your failure's in the postinst [12:56] cjwatson: I'd probably add --noadjfile to match hwclock.sh stop too [12:56] pitti: yes [12:56] pitti: it's part of my standard test set due to /var/run and /var/lock [12:56] slangasek: however, even if /usr isn't available on early boot, I understood that a later udevtrigger should coldplug everything again, and thus get the DB populated [12:56] pitti: we don't *do* a later udevtrigger [12:56] cjwatson, ah right, gotcha. filing report now [12:56] lg: so it's technically slightly different although the cause may be the same; I don't know enough about OOo to tell [12:56] Keybuk: ah, I thought that was kay's explanation [12:56] Keybuk: right [12:56] anyway, I think we have a bug for that [12:56] pitti: nope, even if there was a later udevtrigger, it would happen before !root filesystems were mounted [12:56] let me look [12:57] pitti: I'm not adding 5s (average udevtrigger time) to the boot just to populate the udev db with silly strings from pci.ids ;) [12:57] * slangasek grins [12:57] Keybuk: though /etc/adjtime written in d-i won't be preserved across reboot anyway [12:57] cjwatson: you right it in the target [12:57] cjwatson: write even [12:57] good point [12:57] * Keybuk will bbiab [12:57] Keybuk: ah, I think that's why I originally filed bug 372241 [12:57] slangasek: ^ [12:57] Launchpad bug 372241 in udev-extras "udev-db needs {pci,usb}.ids early" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372241 [12:57] time to reopen then? [12:58] pitti: sounds like it [12:58] I reopened it [12:58] and reassigned to udev [12:58] cjwatson: is there a trick to getting into the grub menu when using kvm SDL? Neither shift nor escape is working for me. [12:58] uh, where did Keybuk go [12:59] slangasek: so, since not even /lib will help us, it seems we should copy them into the initramfs? [12:59] evand: hmm, I'm sure it *did* work [12:59] pitti: meh, that appeals to me even less than copying it to /lib [12:59] pitti: I still think the architecture is wrong [12:59]