[15:57]  * lool waves
[15:58] <ogra> pfft, way to early
[15:58] <ogra> full 3mins ahead of time
[15:59] <lool> ogra: Hmm since you're attending everyweek, would you like to represent the mobile team officially?
[15:59] <ogra> not this week, if you giev me a little intro next time i will
[16:00] <lool> ogra: Ok; lets say you're doing it next week and I'll update the release status with you next week too
[16:00] <ogra> i want to be sure i dont miss anything ... so preparation appreciated :)
[16:00] <ogra> good
[16:00]  * fader_ waves (on time).
[16:00] <pitti> hey all
[16:00] <Riddell> hola
[16:00] <seb128> hey
[16:01] <ttx> o/
[16:01] <marjo> marjo waves
[16:02]  * slangasek waves
[16:02] <cjwatson> yo
[16:03] <ogra> ghurt
[16:03] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is slangasek.
[16:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:04] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-09-04
[16:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-09-04
[16:04] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Previous actions
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Previous actions
[16:04] <slangasek> those were:
[16:04] <slangasek> # seb128 and fader to discuss options for working around nautilus crash on shutdown in hw testing lab
[16:04] <slangasek> # smoser following up with Amazon on AWS page publishing
[16:04] <slangasek> # kenvandine to get status of desktop-karmic-integrating-with-ubuntu-one fixed up
[16:04] <slangasek> # davidbarth to find bug report regarding keyboard brightness notification regression
[16:05] <slangasek> #
[16:05] <slangasek> mvo to include base-installer as update-manager submodule for CPU->kernel mapping
[16:05] <slangasek> seb128: has fader_ had a chance to catch you now that you're back?
[16:05] <kenvandine> slangasek, done, set to implemented
[16:05] <mvo> slangasek: I did some work on it this week, but its not ready yet
[16:05] <pitti> we quickly covered that a few hours ago, and I proposed a solution
[16:05] <mvo> (sorry)
[16:05] <fader_> slangasek: seb128 pointed me at pitti and the three of us discussed it.  The bug in question is now fix released, but we discussed how to deal with this in the future
[16:05] <slangasek> mvo: understood
[16:05] <seb128> slangasek, yes, we discussed it earlier, or rather fader_ and pitti did
[16:06] <pitti> fader_: (FAOD, the bug isn't fixed in karmic yet)
[16:06] <slangasek> (FAOD?)
[16:06] <pitti> for avoidance of doubt
[16:07] <pitti> sorry, TLAs
[16:07] <fader_> pitti: 403539?
[16:07] <fader_> Ah, it's 'fix committed' sorry
[16:07] <pitti> fader_: 403549
[16:07] <davidbarth> slangasek: i don't have the upstream bug reference yet
[16:09] <fader_> pitti: Right, sorry... typing on my netbook :/
[16:09] <slangasek> davidbarth: you're sure it's there, though?  Because I get notifications just fine when I change my display brightness..
[16:09] <pitti> ^ me too, for the records
[16:10] <slangasek> ttx: is there progress on getting the AWS page published?
[16:10] <ttx> slangasek: yes, they were
[16:10] <davidbarth> slangasek: that's /keyboard/
[16:10] <ttx> let me fetch urls for you
[16:11] <davidbarth> slangasek: that's /keyboard/ brightness; quite rare unless you have a macbook
[16:11] <ttx> http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?categoryID=223&externalID=2755
[16:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?categoryID=223&externalID=2755
[16:11] <ttx> http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?categoryID=223&externalID=2754
[16:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?categoryID=223&externalID=2754
[16:11] <slangasek> davidbarth: oh, I misunderstood - I thought "keyboard brightness" meant "changing display brightness with a hotkey"
[16:12] <slangasek> I think I'm less concerned about the other :)
[16:12] <ttx> slangasek: we can modify them for further milestones wihtout going the=rough Amazon validation
[16:12] <slangasek> ttx: ok, great!
[16:12]  * ttx curses his fat fingers
[16:12] <slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
[16:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
[16:13] <slangasek> marjo, fader_: how goes it?
[16:13] <fader_> Hardware testing:
[16:13] <fader_> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:13] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:13] <fader_> As discussed earlier, the nautilus crash we've been seeing repeatedly (bug 403549) is now 'fix
[16:13] <fader_> committed' so with luck it should go away soon (yay!)
[16:13] <fader_> I've talked with seb128 and pitti about it and they had some suggestions
[16:13] <fader_> as to how we could filter issues like this in the future so we do not
[16:13] <fader_> see the same known failure over and over.
[16:13] <fader_> The idea is to iterate over the crashes looking for known issues on the
[16:13] <fader_> client side before checkbox reports them.
[16:14] <fader_> I have reported bug 424344 as it has been turning up on xubuntu installs.  If this continues to occur, it might be a good candidate for filtering from the daily report.
[16:14] <fader_> Bug 404264 is fixed and we are seeing automated results for the machines that were previously unable to install.
[16:14] <fader_> We have a few laptops in Montreal that haven't been tested, so I've asked cr3 to take a look at them, make sure they're plugged in, etc. so that we get them tested.  Two of them are exhibiting strange X behavior that we are looking into: splash screen, trying to blank to gdm, then back to splash screen
[16:14] <fader_> We will file a bug about this after we have done our initial investigation.
[16:15] <fader_> I've also done some manual testing of some of the netbooks that are located in the Lexington office, with good results. The hardware support looks good but it actually turned up a couple of bugs in checkbox tests :)  I am working with krafty to get those results to the proper people, as some of this requires working with the hardware vendors.
[16:15] <fader_> Specs:
[16:15] <fader_> karmic-qa-extended-audio-testing
[16:15] <fader_> The software portion of this is in-place -- there are extended audio tests in checkbox, both manual and automatic
[16:15] <fader_> In order to use the automatic tests in our labs, we need to purchase and hook up some audio patch cables.  I've asked cr3 to check this out and make sure that it works in the lab in Montreal, and if so we can go ahead with the full rollout.
[16:16] <cr3> fader_: to be fair, they have all been tested but bugs the oustanding laptops have problems for which bugs need to be reported
[16:16] <fader_> cr3: Good point, thank you -- I pounced on cr3 before he'd even had a chance to get coffee to ask him to run some tests :)
[16:16] <slangasek> fader_: I didn't recall that xubuntu was also used in our hw testing - that doesn't seem relevant to testing the hardware, since differences between Ubuntu and Xubuntu results are going to come from somewhere besides the kernel?
[16:17] <fader_> slangasek: We test everything we can throw at it; it's valuable to see that the various CDs boot, etc.
[16:17] <cr3> slangasek: since we have so much hardware at our disposal, we have more bandwidth to perform a broader range of testing than just hardware
[16:17] <fader_> We also perform some more distro-related tests and are expanding that through mago
[16:18] <pitti> hm, does xubuntu use pulse?
[16:18] <fader_> marjo and I have been discussing how to better present the different results, i.e. hardware-related and distro-related
[16:18] <slangasek> fader_, cr3: except the result is that the report is showing noise about a Xubuntu-specific software bug
[16:18] <pitti> but at least the gstreamer bits might be different
[16:18] <cr3> slangasek: the hardware certification website provides a nice overview of the state of disk images: https://certification.canonical.com/disks
[16:18] <slangasek> that you're now talking about having to filter out
[16:18] <slangasek> surely it would be more straightforward to just use Ubuntu for all the tests?
[16:19] <cr3> slangasek: and we'd save on electricity!
[16:19] <mdz> cr3, shouldn't that information go in the test tracker?
[16:19] <fader_> slangasek: Or we could have the best of both worlds by testing them all and reporting for release only on Ubuntu for the purposes of these meetings
[16:20] <slangasek> fader_: that would be fine with me
[16:20] <cr3> mdz: the iso tracker? if so, I've tried to work with the maintainer but it turned out to be rather complicated
[16:20] <fader_> (which would be my preference unless there's a compelling reason that testing the other images is not valuable)
[16:20] <mdz> fader_, I agree
[16:21] <marjo> i think it's best to go for more test coverage, then filter results per different reporting needs
[16:21] <fader_> I will take an action to see what it would take to filter this for only the Ubuntu results... my guess is that's a pretty straightforward and quick change to the report
[16:21] <mdz> cr3, so the solution was to create a separate report which is private?
[16:21] <marjo> i'm working within the QA team to determine how best to organize and report test results
[16:22] <slangasek> [ACTION] fader to filter http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html to avoid showing Xubuntu-specific failures
[16:22] <MootBot> ACTION received:  fader to filter http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html to avoid showing Xubuntu-specific failures
[16:22] <cr3> mdz: I needed to see this information and it took no time at all to generate it, I'd rather have something than nothing at all
[16:23] <slangasek> marjo, fader_: other spec status?
[16:23] <mdz> cr3, but the rest of Ubuntu needs to see this information as well, which is why we have the test tracker
[16:23] <slangasek> * karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption
[16:23] <marjo> * UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption - Marjo
[16:23] <marjo> Received confirmation from Launchpad team that +filebug redirection will be part of the 3.0 release.
[16:23] <marjo> Current target date 23 Sept.
[16:23] <marjo> Thank you to the LP team.
[16:23] <marjo> That's it. Thx.
[16:24] <cr3> mdz: there are plans to open up this information in the short term, so this will be available to the public
[16:24] <slangasek> marjo, cr3: karmic-qa-metrics-based-testing-phase-2?
[16:24] <slangasek> (that's targeted to alpha-6)
[16:24] <cr3> mdz: however, I do share your concern about having two sources containing similar information, this will have to be considered
[16:25] <mdz> cr3, let's talk about it another time
[16:25] <marjo> slangasek: cr3 will cover that spec status
[16:26] <cr3> slangasek: yes, the objective will be to introduce quantitative test results in addition to qualitative test results in order to report benchmarks such as phoronix
[16:27] <slangasek> cr3: is it on track?  the spec says you've not started on the implementation, and it's targeted for two weeks from now
[16:27] <cr3> slangasek: there have been other priorities, but I'll have something ready for alpha 6
[16:27] <slangasek> ok
[16:28] <slangasek> finally, we have a late agenda addition per mdz
[16:28] <slangasek>    * Alpha 5 test results
[16:28] <slangasek> marjo: how do things look from your side?
[16:28] <mdz> yes, I asked marjo to prepare a summary of the test results from alpha 5
[16:29] <fader_> mdz: marjo asked me to look at this but I seem to have been unclear on what you were looking for
[16:29] <marjo> overall, test results and coverage look good
[16:29] <fader_> I thought you were interested in the test results as outlined above in the checkbox testing for the alpha images
[16:29] <mdz> marjo, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ seems to show many test cases which were not executed
[16:29] <marjo> there were some critical bugs posted that blocked testing, but those are being worked
[16:30] <marjo> yes, for example server UEC and netboot
[16:30] <mdz> fader_, I was looking for an overall summary of the testing which had been conducted on alpha 5 and what the results were
[16:31] <slangasek> server UEC was tested, but rather frantically due to eucalyptus setup problems so the results never got posted
[16:31] <mdz> e.g. there are 71 test cases on the 7 images displayed on the front page of the test tracker
[16:32] <mdz> we executed about 51 of those
[16:32] <mdz> 26 bugs were identified in that testing, of which N were serious
[16:32] <mdz> and here is the list
[16:32] <mdz> and so on
[16:33] <mdz> fader_, does that make more sense?
[16:33] <marjo> mdz: yes, i agree
[16:33] <slangasek> given that these stats haven't been collected yet, should we move on for now and discuss that further by email if needed?
[16:33] <fader_> mdz: Yes, it does, thanks.  davmor2 might be able to shed a bit of light on this.
[16:34] <mdz> marjo, could you go ahead and prepare the report and deliver it separately?
[16:34] <davmor2> mdz: 1 of the big issues we had this time is some big bugs found the night before testing started meant that testing got delayed
[16:35] <marjo> mdz: ok will do
[16:35] <slangasek> [ACTION] marjo to prepare off-line report of Alpha 5 ISO test results
[16:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  marjo to prepare off-line report of Alpha 5 ISO test results
[16:35] <mdz> in addition to the data, I'd appreciate commentary on how the testing was executed and any changes we should make in order to achieve more complete coverage, better coordination, etc. in the next milestone
[16:35] <cjwatson> clone davmor2
[16:36] <pitti> or send him two extra test machines
[16:36] <marjo> mdz: yes agree
[16:36] <davmor2> mdz: A day earlier would give you full coverage
[16:37] <slangasek> or delaying the milestone by a day; our stated alpha handling leaves in some flexibility to do that, but we haven't been seeking full x-by-y test case coverage on alphas
[16:37] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
[16:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
[16:37] <cjwatson> this was a bit of a rush, I bear some responsibility for that since there was a late grub-installer change
[16:37] <slangasek> marjo, fader, cr3: thanks
[16:37] <pitti> As usual, current desktop state is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:38] <pitti> the main focus this week was to get the final bits of DX integration ready
[16:38] <pitti> also, the GNOME help files stripping and moving to langpacks finally landed, so that we finally have CD space again; we should have everything we need on the CDs now, and they are within the limits
[16:38] <pitti> on the bug front, we have quite a list, but most of it is unblocked and in the works, so I'm not too concerned
[16:38] <pitti> about it
[16:38] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:38] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:38] <pitti> one particular thing worth pointing out is that it's currently being discussed to roll back to pidgin; nothing
[16:38] <pitti> decided yet, just meant as an early warning that "it might happen"
[16:38] <cjwatson> has everything been uploaded for the langpack changes, or is there still more space to acquire by more uploads?
[16:38] <pitti> (RC bug: cut&paste from gnome-terminal is just broken)
[16:39] <pitti> cjwatson: no, I expect a lot more air from this, we just saw some 3 to 5 package uploads
[16:39] <pitti> the langpacks that we ship add the stuff back, of course, but a coarse guesstimate is that once everything is uploaded we should have another 15 to 20 MB
[16:40] <pitti> next GNOME is next Monday
[16:40] <pitti> so I didn't do more no-change uploads, just some to test the stuff
[16:40] <lool> pitti: What are the issues with empathy?  crashes, missing feature, or both?  Mind giving UNR folks (stevenk/me) a heads up if you switch back to pidgin as to allow us to follow ASAP
[16:41] <lool> ~[1~BTW ubiquity-slideshow and ubuntu-docs packages should match the IM choice
[16:41] <pitti> lool: absolutely; this also needs to be coordinated with DX for indicator integration, and I can't say that I'd particularly like it
[16:41] <pitti> we'll start a public discussion about it ASAP
[16:41] <lool> k
[16:41] <ogra> lool, i filed a bug for the slideshow
[16:42] <lool> ogra: but we dont really know which way we want it yet
[16:42] <lool> anyway, lets wait for public discussion
[16:42] <ogra> Bug 423640
[16:42] <pitti> it just came up last night/today
[16:42] <slangasek> pitti: you mention focusing on DX integration; how does that look now?
[16:42] <slangasek> davidbarth: ^^
[16:43] <pitti> slangasek: all the components we wanted for karmic are in now; xsplash still looks horrible, and the indicator <-> empathy integration is still missing, but those are on track
[16:43] <pitti> also, there are still some smaller issues, like the user switcher not showing a list of users (just leading you to a gdm login screen)
[16:44] <slangasek> ok
[16:44] <lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
[16:44] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
[16:44] <pitti> FYI, I need to leave soon, I have a dev week talk to give in 15 mins
[16:44] <slangasek> davidbarth: anything else pitti hasn't mentioned that should be highlighted?
[16:44] <pitti> seb128 is still here to answer questions
[16:44] <lool> (davidbarth told me he updated it before the meeting)
[16:45] <slangasek> lool: right, thanks
[16:45]  * davidbarth reads up
[16:46] <davidbarth> slangasek: uploads with minor changes to fix bugs, and n-osd putting notifications back on top
[16:47] <davidbarth> slangasek: the status report is up at the address mentioned above
[16:47]  * ogra hugs davidbarth for the n-osd decision
[16:47] <slangasek> davidbarth: so nothing in particular in jeopardy or bringing major late changes that needs highlighted - ok, thanks
[16:47] <pitti> davidbarth: "back on top"> that's in karmic already
[16:48] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
[16:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
[16:48] <slangasek> pitti, davidbarth: thanks
[16:48] <lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:48] <slangasek> lool: and hello
[16:48] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:48] <lool> News:
[16:48] <lool> * dove and moblin image failed A5 but moblin is fixed and dove close to, rest is doing alright
[16:48] <lool> * cleaned up specs and deferred some work and specs such UNR on armel specs to karmic+1; most are approaching full completion
[16:48] <lool> slangasek: lool and ogra and davidm   :-)
[16:48] <ogra> :)
[16:48] <davidm> :-)
[16:49] <ogra> lool has bandwith issues, i'll take over if he suddenly stays quiet ;)
[16:49] <lool> (ack, my dsl behaves a bit erratically)
[16:50] <ogra> we had massive probs on the armel images due to OO.o being uploaded during the freeze ... can there be something done on the release team side (hardening teh freeze for packages that take more than three days to build for example) ?
[16:51] <slangasek> OOo wasn't uploaded during the freeze, it was uploaded shortly before the freeze was announced
[16:51] <lool> We will get some new buildds which will help a bit, but it will still take 1d+ to build oo.o
[16:51] <ogra> thanks to slangasek for all the help to make the images work anyway without oo.o though
[16:51] <slangasek> as I said, I'm planning to announce the milestone freezes earlier in response
[16:52] <slangasek> is there progress on getting that OOo build failure resolved, so it can be re-seeded for armel?
[16:52] <lool> the build failure is worked around
[16:52] <ogra> i just did an upload that should build
[16:52] <slangasek> ok
[16:52] <ogra> i'll care for the reversions in the seeds too
[16:53] <slangasek> alright
[16:53] <lool> slangasek: (I had changed that bit about oo.o workaround during the meeting, so you might want to reload -- ogra just pushed the change minutes ago)
[16:54] <ogra> yeah, the fix was small ... the diff.gz wasnt (94MB) :P it's OO.o after all
[16:54] <slangasek> lool: anything to mention on the DX side with UNR?
[16:55] <lool> No, it's doing pretty good; we might need to rework session handling for UNR a little to allow xsplash to distinguish between a gnome and an UNR session
[16:55] <lool> For instance we could have a separate .desktop file for UNR sessions and perhaps even an unr-session wrapper around gnome-session
[16:55] <pitti> lool: ah, for sending the "panel is ready" dbus signal?
[16:55] <lool> But that's just implementation details
[16:55] <pitti> lool: like "nautilus || UNR greeter"?
[16:55] <lool> pitti: Well to allow the Xsession.d script to have a way to tell what kind of session is launched
[16:56] <lool> ie if gnome then list += nautilus, panel; elif unr list += nautilus, panel, netbook-launcher; fi
[16:56] <pitti> *nod*
[16:56] <lool> It's easy to tell apart gnome/kde/xfce but unr looks much like GNOME
[16:56] <lool> Anyway Cody is doing a first implementation of a Xsession.d mechanism and then we can refine
[16:57] <lool> LP #418716
[16:57] <davidbarth> yeah, cody was finishing that up, but not on time for the thursday upload
[16:57] <slangasek> glad to hear things are on track, then
[16:57] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
[16:57] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
[16:57] <slangasek> lool, ogra: thanks for the update
[16:57] <rtg> Kernel team release status at:
[16:57] <rtg> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:57] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:58] <rtg> I expect 2.6.31 final next week.
[16:58] <rtg> The AMI for EC2 will very likely use an Intrepid kernel. We'll continue to pursue a more recent
[16:58] <rtg> kernel solution, but we're out of time for this release.
[16:58] <rtg> thats it from me.
[16:58] <pitti> rtg: will that even work with karmic, given things like apparmor userspace <-> kernel space? (I saw it fail with the jaunty kernel)
[16:59] <rtg> pitti, its gonna take some futzing, but kees is aware
[16:59] <slangasek> er, so the EC2 image is going to be built using software not in karmic?
[16:59] <slangasek> (and what about security support?)
[17:00] <rtg> slangasek, we'll hopefully have a newwer kernel before Intrepid falls outside the support window
[17:00] <rtg> if not, then we'll have to continue to apply updates to Intrepid kernel.
[17:01] <rtg> it _has_ been chosen as a long term supported kernel by SuSE, etc
[17:01] <cjwatson> apparently EC2 doesn't give us enough in the way of console messages to make it remotely easy to bring up a newer kernel
[17:01] <rtg> cjwatson, damn near impossible
[17:01] <slangasek> rtg: ok\
[17:01] <rtg> support from Amazon has been very limited
[17:02] <rtg> slangasek, this is all a work in progress, pretty much decided this week at the server sprint.
[17:02] <lool> I thought it was regular Xen; is it working on Xen and not working on EC2?
[17:02] <slangasek> rtg: hmm, just a note, the last four bug numbers in the status page are all linked to bug #404264
[17:03] <rtg> slangasek, cut and paste error. will fix.
[17:03] <rtg> lool, its Xen 3.02 _ionly_, newer kernels are Xen 3.1
[17:03] <cjwatson> FYI if you just put Bug:NNNNNN in a wiki page it'll be linkified
[17:03] <rtg> cjwatson, cool
[17:04] <cjwatson> you don't have to do [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/NNNNNN|Bug:NNNNNN]]
[17:04] <lool> I was hinting that perhaps we could setup the same xen locally to get more debug?
[17:04] <lool> (Sorry for proposing the obvious; i guess you guys thought of that)
[17:04] <rtg> lool, CentOS 5.0 is supposed to be the debug platform
[17:04] <rtg> the DOM0 host, rather.
[17:06] <rtg> slangasek, full stop
[17:06] <slangasek> rtg: ok; thanks for the updates
[17:06] <rtg> I updated the release status page
[17:06] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
[17:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
[17:07] <slangasek> ttx: hi
[17:07] <ttx> o/
[17:07] <ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus is up to date
[17:07] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:08] <ttx> We uncovered a few bugs in our Eucalyptus 1.6 packages that we targeted accordingly
[17:08] <ttx> the main one (that was preventing us from completing the UEC image test on Alpha5) was fixed yesterday
[17:08] <ttx> bug 423800
[17:08] <slangasek> ah, great :)
[17:09] <ttx> As far as alpha6 is concerned...
[17:09] <ttx> cloud-power-management is landed, but clearly needs more smoketesting
[17:09] <ttx> we should expect quite a few eucalyptus package updates as we uncover more bugs in there
[17:10] <ttx> server-karmic-directory-enabled-user-login is pending on OpenLDAP 2.4.18 release
[17:10] <slangasek> should server-karmic-eucalyptus-in-main be regarded as 'implemented' now?  the remaining MIRs should speak for themselves, I think
[17:10] <ttx> slangasek: I wanted to cover all the MIR-review bugs before setting it to Implementged
[17:11] <ttx> I still have one to fix, and a few packages weren't fully reviewed yet
[17:11] <slangasek> ok
[17:12] <ttx> note that openldap might be released today, we should be able to extract the featureset from it to precise the FFe we filed on that matter
[17:12] <slangasek> that would be good :)
[17:12] <ttx> The other two FFes filed in our area is the local proxy feature in Eucalyptus
[17:13] <ttx> and the ec2-init upgrade check
[17:13]  * slangasek nods
[17:13] <ttx> the last one was approved, but we need to clear some privacy concerns before implementation
[17:13] <ttx> any questions ?
[17:14] <slangasek> I'll be looking at any other outstanding FFe requests today, fwiw (yesterday, was somewhat precluded by alpha5
[17:14] <slangasek> )
[17:14] <slangasek> no questions here
[17:14] <slangasek> anyone else?
[17:14] <slangasek> ttx: congrats to your team on bringing eucalyptus together for A5 - I gather there was a bit of work involved
[17:15] <ttx> slangasek: thanks -- it's still requires some manual workarounds to get it running as of now... But we're working on fixing that.
[17:15] <ttx> (and will file bugs and target them appropriately)
[17:15] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
[17:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
[17:16] <slangasek> cjwatson: hi
[17:16] <cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:16] <cjwatson> *just* updated, in a rush ;-)
[17:16] <cjwatson> brief summary of specs:
[17:16] <cjwatson> * multiarch: not landed, I'm assuming deferred at this point (Steve?)
[17:16] <cjwatson> * cloud-setup-in-installer: mostly landed, bug 424368 for remaining pieces
[17:16] <cjwatson> * software-library: mvo wants to talk about this
[17:16] <cjwatson> * oem-config-improvements: plugin support FFEd and reviewed, will land shortly
[17:16] <cjwatson> * ubiquity-slideshow: I think this is largely in place now but need to check
[17:16] <cjwatson> * grub2: all specced work done, plus we should now have an almost entirely quiet boot
[17:16] <cjwatson> * robust-python-packaging: lsb-release done, pygtk may be risky at this point (previous apturl failure caused by moving to include-links); may be best to leave alone now, deferred
[17:17]  * mvo has a list of outstanding issues of software-store at http://paste.ubuntu.com/265047/
[17:18] <slangasek> bug #410352> with the latest clarification, should that still be a targeted bug?
[17:18] <cjwatson> I'd like the DX team's opinion on whether software-store should be shipped by default in karmic (i.e. main) despite its present shortcomings
[17:18] <slangasek> cjwatson: multiarch - yes, spec updated wrt deferral
[17:18] <cjwatson> slangasek: might as well, I think it's straightforward now
[17:18] <slangasek> still making forward progress on multiarch, but nowhere near ready for karmic
[17:18] <mvo> some of the stuff can be fixed before ui freeze, but some can not
[17:18] <mvo> (in software-store)
[17:19] <mvo> on the plus side, its there and working (and nice and fast). just not what the spec calls for 1.0
[17:19] <cjwatson> davidbarth: ^- ?
[17:20] <robbiew> cjwatson: software-store being driven by mpt
[17:20] <davidbarth> cjwatson: dx is not in charge of the software store
[17:20] <robbiew> not really a DX item
[17:20] <cjwatson> oh, I'm confusing my teams, sorry
[17:20] <cjwatson> mpt is not here
[17:21]  * robbiew will follow up...my todo
[17:21] <slangasek> [ACTION] robbiew to follow up with mpt regarding software-store by default in karmic
[17:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to follow up with mpt regarding software-store by default in karmic
[17:22] <cjwatson> mvo: is there anything we can do to get better aptdaemon testing/review? that seems easily separatble
[17:22] <cjwatson> separatable
[17:22] <cjwatson> bah, separable :-)
[17:23] <mvo> cjwatson: update-manager uses it if its there, so we could move it to main seperately
[17:23] <mvo> cjwatson: and get it exposed too all the various packages :)
[17:23] <cjwatson> I see it has a command-line interface too
[17:23] <cjwatson> aptdcon
[17:23] <mvo> I think its good, its just that it did not get a lot of testing yet and its new code + a new approach (all dbus + debconf passthrough etc)
[17:24] <mvo> it would be trivial to teach g-a-i about it
[17:24] <cjwatson> meep, aptdcon doesn't respond to ctrl-c ;-)
[17:24] <cjwatson> first bug ...
[17:25] <mvo> :)
[17:25] <slangasek> heh
[17:25] <slangasek> is there a good reason to FFe aptdaemon for karmic if software-store's not in by default, though?
[17:26] <slangasek> as opposed to letting it get all the testing it needs at the beginning of karmic+1
[17:26] <mvo> not really IMO, most of the strengh (like the new nicer pending view) depends on software-store, a call for testing might be more appropriate
[17:26]  * slangasek nods
[17:27] <slangasek> ok; we've got an action item for mpt follow-up, and I think the rest can be taken offline
[17:27] <slangasek> anything else for Foundations?
[17:27] <cjwatson> I would like to see software-store get in if the design team isn't too unhappy with its present status, given its importance
[17:27] <slangasek> sure
[17:27] <mvo> I will try to adress the outstanding issues as fast as possilbe
[17:28] <ogra> like ... the name ?
[17:28]  * ogra ducks
[17:28] <mvo> *cough*
[17:28] <slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
[17:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
[17:28] <slangasek> ScottK: here?
[17:29] <slangasek> ok, will check in with motu-release later
[17:29] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[17:29] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:29.
[17:29] <slangasek> thanks, folks
[17:31] <lool> thanks
[17:31] <pitti> thanks everyone
[18:02]  * sbalneav taps mic
[18:02] <sbalneav> Is this thing on?
[18:02] <Ahmuck-Sr> yes
[18:03]  * Lns looks around
[18:04]  * sbalneav tap dances to entertain the crowd.
[18:04]  * LaserJock throws hard French bread rolls at sbalneav 
[18:05]  * alkisg likes the dance but would prefer to have the bread rolls
[18:06]  * Lns has nothing witty to come back with
[18:06]  * alkisg wonders if we should stop writing like this and start the meeting....
[18:08] <LaserJock> is there an actual agenda for the meeting?
[18:08] <Lns> ace isn't here..he's the one that sent the mail
[18:08] <LaserJock> we can do a quick update if there's no agenda items
[18:08] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Tell us about the DVD
[18:08] <alkisg> Since we're here, ... yeah that ^^
[18:09] <LaserJock> ok, well
[18:09] <LaserJock> so far this cycle the Edubuntu DVD has been built using the seed (list of packages to include) from the Ubuntu DVD
[18:10] <LaserJock> so essentially we were building a copy of the Ubuntu DVD
[18:10] <LaserJock> a couple days ago I finally got some time and an internet connection to upload new seeds (dvd and dvd-live) to the Edubuntu "seed pod"
[18:11] <LaserJock> it's a bit tricky in the way that the Edubuntu seed pod inherits from Ubuntu's, but I *think* this should be working
[18:12] <LaserJock> so the daily DVD builds: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/ could use some testing
[18:12] <alkisg> Is universe enabled? Can we ask for package removal/inclusion, if we think that some more-edu-related packages are prefered?
[18:12] <LaserJock> Universe is enabled
[18:12] <LaserJock> and yes, I think we need to start looking at what should go on the DVD
[18:12] <LaserJock> right now it's 3.6GB
[18:12] <LaserJock> which I think is a bit large
[18:13] <LaserJock> currently it's still basically a copy of the Ubuntu DVD, but it's building off of our seed (I believe)
[18:13] <LaserJock> but making changes is fairly easy now, just update the seed and get either myself or stgraber to commit the bzr branch
[18:14] <alkisg> Where's the seed?
[18:14] <LaserJock> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.karmic
[18:14] <Lns> LaserJock, do you have any URLs that explains the dvd making process for those of us who don't know how it works?
[18:14] <LaserJock> Lns: not really that are specific
[18:15] <LaserJock> but we don't have to really care so much about *how* they get built, but what goes on them
[18:16] <LaserJock> the relevant code that does the building/publishing is called "debian-cd" and "ubuntu-cdimage"
[18:16] <Lns> k
[18:17] <LaserJock> cjwatson is the one who primarily handles the build stuff for Ubuntu
[18:18] <LaserJock> and he's the one that got the DVD going, so be sure to thank him next time you see him :-)
[18:18] <Lns> cjwatson, thanks! ;)
[18:19] <cjwatson> not that hard *shrug* :-)
[18:19] <LaserJock> so now the trick is to 1) keep the non-Education parts of the DVD in sync with Ubuntu and 2) make sure we have all the apps we want for Karmic
[18:20] <alkisg> Is there anything else that we can change in the resulting dvd except for package inclusion/removal? I don't know what, just asking...
[18:21] <LaserJock> most things are handled via packages
[18:21] <LaserJock> but I suppose there are some things in the Live part that could be changed if needed
[18:22] <cjwatson> in general, all the world's a package
[18:22] <cjwatson> this isn't quite true but the more everyone pretends it's true the better things will be ;-)
[18:22] <alkisg> :)
[18:23] <LaserJock> cjwatson: if I make a seed change that makes the DVD build blow up completely, will I get notified of that?
[18:24] <cjwatson> yes
[18:25] <LaserJock> so I think things are working, but right now the Ubuntu and Edubuntu DVDs are so close that I can't distinguish
[18:25] <LaserJock> so I'll try making some changes and see if they get propagated properly
[18:26] <alkisg> Will the edubuntu theme be applied? Or will we use the standard Ubuntu theme? (/me prefers the standard one :))
[18:27] <Lns> not to change the subject but I remember hearing about wanting to do a live-usb ? Did that ever make any progress?
[18:27] <alkisg> Lns, was that ever an official course? I don't think so, all people were talking about was unofficial remixes...
[18:27] <Lns> alkisg, I think a different theme would be good to have by default
[18:28] <cjwatson> live USB> use usb-creator?
[18:28] <Lns> true true
[18:28] <LaserJock> basically
[18:28] <cjwatson> we don't have space on the cdimage server for multiple CD/USB builds of basically the same bits, so while you're welcome to do that you'll need to host it somewhere else if you want it published
[18:29] <Lns> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Live_USB_creator
[18:29] <LaserJock> I think the idea was once we have an .iso , we can provide instructions for doing a USB
[18:29] <alkisg> But, somewhat on the same idea, if e.g. we wanted to provide a 200Mb ltsp image along with the dvd, to demonstrate ltsp in a live manner, we'd have to create such an ubuntu package?
[18:29] <LaserJock> alkisg: or perhaps have a script that builds it from the DVD contents
[18:30] <LaserJock> alkisg: I believe we might have the Edubuntu theme applied
[18:30] <alkisg> Where would that script go? Somewhere inside the script process?
[18:30] <alkisg> *the cd build process
[18:30] <LaserJock> in a package somewhere I suppose :-)
[18:30] <LaserJock> at this point I don't know
[18:30] <cjwatson> if you actually wanted that extra 200MB blob on the CD, then such a script could go in the cdimage build process, but it's a fair bit of work to do that
[18:30] <cjwatson> in particular, anything that involves installing packages in a filesystem image to create a blob needs to run as a specialised job on a buildd
[18:31] <cjwatson> because the central CD build machine can't in general install packages for arbitrary architectures, and the CD build scripts don't run as root anyway
[18:31] <alkisg> Got it, thank you.
[18:31] <cjwatson> s/CD/DVD/ you get the idea
[18:31] <LaserJock> I think maybe we would need to have a script that ran from the Live CD session
[18:31] <cjwatson> we have ltsp-client-builder or whatever it's called that can be run from the server installer
[18:32] <alkisg> Yes, but that's not live; it's for installation only
[18:32] <cjwatson> of course it takes a while to build the client chroot
[18:32] <cjwatson> right
[18:32] <LaserJock> in any case, I think that's not really Karmic material
[18:32] <alkisg> Sure.
[18:32] <LaserJock> we can look into doing more along those lines for 10.04
[18:32] <cjwatson> I also didn't mean to suggest that you should be shipping it all in a giant 200MB package ;-)
[18:33]  * stgraber waves
[18:34] <LaserJock> I need to talk off to work now
[18:34] <alkisg> Thank you LaserJock, thanks cjwatson :)
[18:34] <LaserJock> but it looks like we're making progress on the DVD front
[18:35] <LaserJock> and I'm sort of more available now that I have moved and have internet at home
[18:38] <Lns> Too bad nubae isn't here, he's developing a really neat app that might want to be included in edubuntu
[18:38] <Lns> has anyone besides me seen it yet?
[18:40] <Lns> https://launchpad.net/pyclic
[18:40] <alkisg> Lns, does tcm-ng have chances for Karmic+1 inclusion? :)
[18:40] <Lns> I tried it out - it's got some work to be done, but it's actually pretty usable right now and seems like it would be a great little app
[18:40] <Lns> alkisg, I think that would be a safe bet
[18:41] <Lns> we're working on the VNC part right now, but a lot of other things seem to be working pretty well...we need people to test/bugfix on the newer releases though
[18:41] <Lns> we're building primarily on hardy... but i don't see that it'd be a big issue, i'd think..?
[18:42] <alkisg> Nope, I think if you put it to your ppa you could even "copy packages" for jaunty
[18:42] <alkisg> Do start a ppa to be easier for the testers...
[18:43] <Lns> oh for sure =) that's one of the next steps after being happy with it ourselves
[18:43] <ogra> if you want it in karmic you better convince someone of the MOTU release managers to grant a freeze exception
[18:43] <ogra> (we're past feature freeze)
[18:44] <Lns> ogra, ok..we'll see where we're at once we're at that point
[18:44] <Lns> ^^^ (redundant statement)
[18:44] <ogra> well, the later you ask for inclusion the more unlikely you will get it into karmic
[18:45] <Lns> lemme chat with the guys and see what can be done.. i know moldy has been learning about the package building process himself
[18:47] <Lns> http://logicalnetworking.net/other/LnsBotlogs/lns.log.01Sep2009 - apparently there are some source packages in our repo
[18:47] <Lns> so anyone can feel free to mess around with them, though moldy says 'don't expect anything to run' ;)
[18:47] <Lns> https://code.launchpad.net/~tcm-ng-dev/tcm-ng/trunk
[18:48] <ogra> push them on revu and convince someone from MOTU release to let them in, note that you will need some pretty good arguments for such a freeze exception
[18:49]  * ogra goes into his weekend now ...
[18:50] <Lns> thx ogra =) have a good one!
[18:51] <Lns> development has slowed w/tcm due to time constraints, so please - if anyone wants to help out and knows python, feel free to join in! we could use the extra help
[18:52] <Lns> we're always idling in #lns (moldy and yanqui are the main devs, i'm the one that pretends like he knows stuff but really just is a 'visionary' ;) )
[19:09]  * Lns sees nobody rang the bell
[19:09] <Lns> *ding ding*