[12:59] <mac_v> ScottK: did i sound like i was shouting at her :(
[13:00] <mac_v> ScottK: actually, i had sent her > http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/08/07/%23ayatana.html , explaining the reason for the change
[13:00] <mac_v> pls read tedg's reply
[13:01] <mac_v> SiDi: ^
[13:04] <SiDi_> Hm, what was i saying again
[13:04] <SiDi_> mac_v: your answer to Celeste sounded rude to me :p
[13:05] <mac_v> SiDi_: for you everything i say is rude 
[13:05] <mac_v> :(
[13:05] <SiDi_> :D
[13:05] <SiDi_> mac_v: the "initial goal" was rude ;)
[13:06] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[13:06] <SiDi_> Celeste was asking that the design be reviewed accordingly to the new feature, and you just bashed her saying that she should expect new features that dont fit the design :P
[13:07] <SiDi_> What i am worried about is this idea of having to manually blacklist apps i don't use
[13:07] <mac_v> SiDi_: actually i didnt know if i was allowed to send the irc log in the ML  , i sent her the link in a *polite* mail personally 
[13:07] <mac_v> but that no one wil get to know :(
[13:07] <SiDi_> i think it should be the other way around : apps can either be 'hidden', 'shown when active', 'always shown', every app is by default shown when active (ie. opened), and the ones you use daily can end up being 'always shown'
[13:08] <mac_v> that was along with the reply earlier itself
[13:08] <SiDi_> because if my lil brother installs some crappy IM / email app i dont wanna have to blacklist it right after
[13:08] <mac_v> SiDi_: then suggest *that* , suggest how to improve the feature
[13:09] <SiDi_> i wanna manage to run the applet before i try to see what to do with it :P
[13:09] <mac_v> none of the arguments she keeps raising are negative for the feature
[13:31] <ScottK> mac_v: If you want Ayatana work to be cross-desktop, bashing the head of the KDE usabiilty project on the Ayatana list isn't a good way to achieve that IMO.  My reading was that you were saying her questions were inappropriate and if she'd just been paying attention she'd know better.
[13:32] <mac_v> ScottK: ah man! i need to know to type more eloquently!
[13:33] <mac_v> ScottK: i had actually sent her the irc log immediately with my original reply , i dont really think *she* might have taken it wrong , but maybe it did come out wrong :(
[13:33]  * mac_v desnt want to get caught in cross-desktop war ;)
[13:50] <ScottK> mac_v: OK.  I'm not saying that's how you intended it, just that's how it came across.
[13:55] <mac_v> :(
[14:49] <hyperair> mac_v: you'd benefit from an effective communications class ;-)
[14:49] <hyperair> (we have that here in my university, as a compulsory course.)
[14:49] <mac_v> hyperair: yeah... lets go together ;p
[14:49] <hyperair> i've already sat through it ;-)
[14:50] <mac_v> hyperair: actually only others thought as rude , and not the actual person
[14:52] <mac_v> hyperair: kde folks are a *tight* family , so ... 
[14:53]  * hyperair doesn't know anything. never read any of the posts
[14:53] <hyperair> but you did annoy me the first time i received an email from you ;-)
[14:53] <mac_v> hyperair: you get annoyed for everything , bubbles , ...
[14:54] <hyperair> oh shutup you
[14:54] <hyperair> ;-)
[14:55] <mac_v> hyperair: hehe , i was actually waiting a reply to the ayatana ML , from you about the bubbles
[14:55] <hyperair> bubbles appearing in the middle of my screen annoy me because i have vertically-split windows a lot.
[14:55] <mac_v> it would have been awesome
[14:55] <hyperair> i avoided posting for that reason =.=
[14:55] <mac_v> waiting for a*
[14:56] <hyperair> i'd probably be reminded of the CoC and banned or something from launchpad
[14:56] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[14:56] <hyperair> and maybe become the first joker who got purged of ubuntu membership for rudeness
[14:58] <mac_v> hyperair: do you know , there was one person on the bug report who thanked for the middle bubble , i should have sent you the mail ;p
[14:59] <hyperair> ye gods.
[15:00] <hyperair> i don't see the benefit at all, unless you're one of those jokers who has a super-huge screen and cannot maximize your use of your screen estate
[15:03] <SiDi_> it was meant to address the problem with the firefox search bar, afaik
[15:03] <SiDi_> but i dont think it was such a great thing either :p
[15:03] <mac_v> for firefox they did that ! 0.o 
[15:05] <hyperair> that's the thing.
[15:05] <hyperair> that's exactly why i find this whole issue so stupid
[15:06] <hyperair> for *one* application's design failure, they messed up the whole bloody thing
[15:19] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: ping!
[16:07] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: i think i figured out a way , to prevent blurriness of the battery icons
[16:07] <mac_v> will be pushing to branch in a bit
[16:11] <SiDi> mac_v: which iconsz ? :P
[16:18] <mac_v> oh no... SiDi knows ;p
[16:51] <DanRabbit1> mac_v: how's that?
[17:10] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: hei , just pushed the icons
[17:10] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: went on a witch hunt but in the end the solution was simple!
[17:11] <DanRabbit1> which was?
[17:12] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: it need 24px icons! :(
[17:13] <mac_v> *needed
[17:13] <DanRabbit1> *facepalm*
[17:13] <DanRabbit1> duh!
[17:13] <DanRabbit1> :D
[17:13] <DanRabbit1> we are so special...
[17:14] <mac_v> i went trying all stupid tricks and it turns out the applet was duller than us!
[17:15] <DanRabbit1> :D
[17:15] <DanRabbit1> Well, at least it's solved now.
[17:15] <mac_v> \o/
[17:15] <mac_v> did you check it out?
[17:15] <DanRabbit1> yea
[17:15] <DanRabbit1> I'm on my iMac though, so I don't have a battery :D
[17:15] <DanRabbit1> my gf is using the MacBook
[17:15] <mac_v> hehe ;
[17:16] <mac_v> ;P
[17:16] <mac_v> it need symlinks ,
[17:16]  * mac_v was too lazy to do it
[17:17] <mac_v> some thing is totally messed up when i try to multi task! most easily my grammar!
[17:17] <DanRabbit1> alright done
[17:17] <DanRabbit1> I'm pushing right now
[17:20] <DanRabbit1> I'm off to test UNR
[17:21] <DanRabbit1> I'm going to make a special Humanity branch for it, I think.
[17:22] <DanRabbit1> bye
[19:41] <DanRabbit> DBO: ping
[19:45] <mac_V> DanRabbit: keep forgetting this , the volume icon , for mute can be *without* the bars , right now its a bit similar to the full if you dont know the state earlier
[19:45] <mac_V> shall i edit it?
[19:45] <DanRabbit> hmm
[19:45] <DanRabbit> That's a good point
[19:45] <DanRabbit> Only thing is
[19:45] <DanRabbit> will it make the spacing look funny?
[19:46] <DanRabbit> mac_V: I'm going to branch Humanity
[19:46] <mac_v> most icons do a x , but removing the bars wont affect it , 
[19:46] <DanRabbit> I'd probably go with the X then
[19:46] <DanRabbit> But anyways, I'm going to branch the icons for light and dark
[19:46] <mac_v> thats what *every* icon set does :(
[19:47] <DanRabbit> haha, well feel free to experiment :D
[19:47] <DanRabbit> Anyways, what I was trying to say was, if you could optimize the icons for light panels, that would be awesome.
[19:47] <mac_v> ok , i'll push the new mute icon , we'll test it for a few days? its easy to revert it too
[19:48] <mac_v> DanRabbit: light panels?
[19:48] <DanRabbit> yea, sounds good
[19:48] <DanRabbit> yea, I know we just did all that trying to get it to work for both
[19:48] <mac_v> what are we doing for now ;p ?
[19:48] <DanRabbit> but there are still complaints, and for now it just doesn't look right
[19:48] <mac_v> oh , ok
[19:48] <DanRabbit> So, I'm going to make a humanity-unr branch
[19:48] <DanRabbit> and anyone with a dark panel can use those icons
[19:50] <DanRabbit> I'm installing UNR in virtualbox right now, and I'm going to be concentrating Humanity on that..
[19:50] <DanRabbit> not to say, that most changes won't benefit both :D
[20:11] <DanRabbit> For anybody that cares, Humanity icons for UNR are now available at lp:humanity-unr
[20:11] <DanRabbit> bye :D
[20:21] <ScottK> hyperair: It's not at all clear that the Ayatana list falls under the Ubuntu CoC.
[21:25] <bratsche> What is CoC?
[21:26] <SiDi_> Code Of Conduct
[21:26] <bratsche> Oh, right.
[21:27] <SiDi_> you're an ubuntu member.. tss tss :P
[21:28] <bratsche> I'm a new Ubuntu member.
[21:28] <bratsche> :)
[21:28] <bratsche> I didn't know what CoC stands for.
[21:29] <bratsche> I can't post on the Ayatana list anyway, for some reason, so I guess the CoC doesn't apply to me there. ;)
[21:38]  * SiDi_ shall ask for membership too..
[21:39] <mac_v> bratsche: CoC doesnt cover several words you use on irc ;p
[21:39] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[21:39] <bratsche> Me?  Or anyone?
[21:39] <mac_v> you of course ;)
[21:39] <mac_v> bratsche: BTW , how the xsplash work coming along?
[21:40] <mac_v> how is*
[21:40] <bratsche> Boring :)
[21:40] <bratsche> But fine.
[21:40] <mac_v> hmm...  isnt xsplash suppose to mask the usplash? and not show usplash at all?
[21:41] <mac_v> except during shutdown?
[21:41] <bratsche> The new startup changes haven't landed yet.
[21:41] <bratsche> xsplash doesn't mask usplash.  It's just that once the new startup changes land, usplash won't be shown the way it has been.
[21:41] <bratsche> Rather than starting usplash, X will be started very early on.
[21:41] <bratsche> And xsplash will be the first thing you see once X starts.
[21:42] <mac_v> yeah , that was what i kept saying in Ubuntu+1 , people just say ,we are psst feature freeze!
[21:42] <mac_v> past*
[21:42] <bratsche> I'm kind of confused about that too.  I have nothing to do with the new startup fu though.
[21:43]  * mac_v maybe should stop testing alpha stuff !
[21:43] <mac_v> ;p
[21:43] <bratsche> I've been trying to post on ayatana list this week because I have a proposed solution to one of the notify-osd issues, but ayatana list won't accept my posts.
[21:44] <mac_v> bratsche: have you subscribed to the list in lp first? how are you trying to post?
[21:45] <bratsche> I get all the mails.  I wasn't a member of the "Ayatana Discussion" group though, so I joined and tried to repost and it still didn't go through.
[21:45] <bratsche> "You are subscribed to the team mailing list.  [Unsubscribe]"
[21:45] <bratsche> It says I'm subscribed.
[21:45] <bratsche> But it still hates me. :)
[21:46] <mac_v> bratsche: hmm... why dont you send the mail to me , i'll forward the mail to the list?
[21:46]  * bratsche tries one more thing.. tests from @gnome.org email since that's my lp ID
[21:46] <bratsche> (even though all the email goes to my @canonical.com email address)
[21:47] <bratsche> haha.. okay, that worked.
[21:47] <bratsche> Duh.
[21:47] <mac_v> hehe \o/
[21:48] <bratsche> Still, weird that my previous message wasn't in the moderation queue or anything.
[21:48] <bratsche> Oh well, whatever.
[21:48] <mac_v> i think you were receiving the ayatana mail as default from canonical
[21:50] <mac_v> bratsche: lol , you sent test!
[21:50] <mac_v> i was waiting to read your mail about xsplash
[21:50] <mac_v> and all i got was "PLs ignore" lmao
[21:51] <bratsche> Sent.
[21:51] <bratsche> mac_v: I just wanted to see if it would actually send.
[21:51] <bratsche> mac_v: I sent the real email now.
[21:52] <mac_v> i realized that , but i was disappointed initially ;)
[21:52] <bratsche> heh
[21:52]  * bratsche is such a disappointment
[21:53] <bratsche> Too bad this is now arriving several days after the discussion stopped :)
[21:54] <bratsche> Oh well.
[21:55]  * mac_v  wonders why he mistook bratsche was going to send mail about some xsplash solution
[21:55] <mac_v> hm... 
[21:55] <bratsche> I said it was a notify-osd issue. :)
[21:56] <mac_v> ah... i misread that line
[21:56] <bratsche> Nobody wants to talk about xsplash issues anyway.
[21:57] <mac_v> why not?
[21:57] <bratsche> There's nothing interesting to talk about.
[21:57] <bratsche> In Karmic+1 we will be adding a bootloader to it though.
[21:57]  * mac_v  thinks its a nice idea starting the X early and using xsplash , and is interested
[21:58] <mac_v> yeah i think that was how mat initially planned it
[21:58] <bratsche> Yeah.
[21:58] <bratsche> Then again.. there's nothing really all that interesting about notify-osd either, but somehow we manage to have long discussions about it. :)
[21:59] <mac_v> lol...so true , like for example the latest i-a discussion
[21:59] <bratsche> What's i-a?
[21:59] <mac_v> ah! messaging menu
[22:00] <mac_v> indicator-applet
[22:00] <bratsche> Oh right.
[22:00] <bratsche> I'm bad with abbreviations. :)
[22:00] <mac_v> hehe , blame tedg for that
[22:00] <bratsche> I blame him for as many things as possible ;)
[22:01]  * mac_v waiting to make i-a plugin for xchat
[22:02] <bratsche> That would be useful.
[22:03] <bratsche> Next cycle should be fun for theming I think.
[22:03] <bratsche> I'm looking forward to that.
[22:03] <mac_v> gtk ?
[22:03] <bratsche> Yeah.
[22:03] <mac_v> \o/ thats awesome for me
[22:03] <mac_v> more fun
[22:04] <mac_v> bratsche: any insider info about the color? ;)
[22:04] <bratsche> What color?
[22:04] <mac_v> now we use orange/brown... 
[22:04] <mac_v> XP blue
[22:04] <bratsche> Oh.. no, I don't know about such things.
[22:05] <bratsche> Mat and Otto would know more about this.
[22:05] <mac_v> try sitting next to them ;p
[22:05] <mac_v> might overhear something ;p
[22:05] <bratsche> Sadly, I don't work in the office with them.
[22:05] <mac_v> yeah , i was just kidding
[22:06] <bratsche> The only insider information I have is that I've been trying to move us over to using rgba windows but there are a few things that still need to be fixed.
[22:06] <bratsche> Firefox is one of them, and I'm not very familiar with the Firefox source yet.
[22:06] <mac_v> rbga , great
[22:08] <mac_v> bratsche: so window border/background opacity , coming soon, \o/ i'v been waiting for that for soo long
[22:08] <bratsche> We'll see.  Hopefully.
[22:08] <mac_v> hehe i filed a nautlius bug for that!
[22:08] <bratsche> It's not a Nautilus issue though.
[22:09] <mac_v> yeah
[22:09] <mac_v> i wanted them to add support for compositing ;)
[22:10] <bratsche> For some reason when I switch gtk to rgba then Firefox blows up in a very spectacular explosion.  Need to fix that. :/
[22:10] <mac_v> bratsche: want a simple fix?
[22:10] <mac_v> throw out firefox ;p
[22:11] <mac_v> its getting too sluggish :/
[22:11] <DanRabbit> Midori FTW
[22:11] <bratsche> Well, I use Chromium these days.. but somehow I don't think this will satisfy Ubuntu users if I say this.
[22:11] <bratsche> Yes, Midori looks cool.
[22:12] <mac_v> how does chromium work with rbga?
[22:12] <bratsche> I haven't actually tested it with the rgba patch.
[22:12] <bratsche> I don't have the rgba patch applied to my system right now.
[22:13] <mac_v> cool though, sounds Karmic +1 is really going to turn out pretty sharp
[22:14] <DanRabbit> mac_v:  actually, maybe we don't need a fork...
[22:15]  * mac_v finds it funny that even though Karmic isnt released , is now looking forward for Karmic+1
[22:15] <mac_v> DanRabbit: how is that?
[22:15] <DanRabbit> well, it looks fine to me
[22:15] <DanRabbit> let me show you
[22:15] <mac_v> yeah me too
[22:17] <DanRabbit> http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/Screenshot-1.png
[22:17] <DanRabbit> looks great
[22:17] <DanRabbit> except for the HUGE ugly ethernet thing
[22:17] <DanRabbit> wtf is that...
[22:18] <mac_v> i think we are missing some symlinks
[22:18] <DanRabbit> uh-oh
[22:18] <mac_v> hehe , UNR looks cool
[22:19] <bratsche> That's kind of a nice looking theme.
[22:19] <mac_v> alomst like gome3
[22:20] <mac_v> \o/ battery shows no blurriness 
[22:20] <DanRabbit> yea, it looks great
[22:20] <DanRabbit> volume looks good too
[22:20] <DanRabbit> I think these icons are like 64px though
[22:21] <mac_v> DanRabbit: what was the "uh-oh"
[22:21] <DanRabbit> missing symlinks?
[22:21] <mac_v> found them?
[22:21] <DanRabbit> no
[22:21] <DanRabbit> I think I could make a better GTK theme...
[22:21] <DanRabbit> no offense to the creator of Dust
[22:22]  * mac_v likes dust sand
[22:22] <DanRabbit> But I mean, because of the way that UNR is
[22:22] <DanRabbit> there are some thing that could be done
[22:22] <mac_v> DanRabbit: how could that^ not be an offense to the creator?
[22:23] <DanRabbit> for example, all statusbars could be black
[22:23] <DanRabbit> haha, I guess that's true :D
[22:24] <mac_v> DanRabbit: the problem why the status bar was not done in black was to prevent conflicts with OOo
[22:24] <mac_v> AFAIK
[22:24] <DanRabbit> you could make an exception for OOo
[22:25] <mac_v> the no , i mean the fonts color needs to be white , so can fonts be changed in OOo?
[22:25] <DanRabbit> Also, the nautilus sidebar could be made to look more like the sidebar thing in netbook launcher..
[22:25] <DanRabbit> You can specify that certain applications use it
[22:25] <DanRabbit> make only nautilus do it, and it won't effect OOo
[22:26] <mac_v> but then the rest of the apps will be affected ;p
[22:26] <mac_v> they will different
[22:26] <mac_v> look*
[22:27] <DanRabbit> yea, but it's just an example
[22:29] <DanRabbit> mac_v: as soon as I changed GTK themes, the ethernet icon fixed :D
[22:29] <DanRabbit> it just needed to be refreshed
[22:29] <mac_v> DanRabbit: hehe  , what does the icon belong to humanity?
[22:29] <DanRabbit> it's the nice plug icons you did
[22:30] <mac_v> no , i meant the previous huge icon
[22:31] <DanRabbit> then I'm not sure I understand the question.
[22:31] <DanRabbit> I think it was inherited from another theme, and when I updated to humanity from bzr, I needed to refresh the whole theme to get it to change.
[22:32] <mac_v>  i cant find the previous ethernet icon , which was being displayed before you refreshed 
[22:34] <DanRabbit> Yea, I don't know where it was from
[22:39] <mac_v> DanRabbit: do you know that the applications menu doesnt show icons!
[22:39] <mac_v> in karmic by default
[22:39] <DanRabbit> what?
[22:39] <DanRabbit> why?
[22:39] <DanRabbit> that seems really dumb
[22:40] <mac_v> only the submenus have icons!
[22:40] <DanRabbit> ...
[22:40] <mac_v> i thought it is a bug , but it was duped to a master libgnome bug!
[22:41] <mac_v> BTW all the buttons/context menu wont have icons by default
[22:45] <DanRabbit> hmm
[22:45] <DanRabbit> that's interesting..
[22:45] <DanRabbit> mac_v: what do you think of Jonian's user icons?
[22:45] <mac_v> DanRabbit: is the nm applet animating for you?
[22:46]  * mac_v checks
[22:46] <DanRabbit> I don't really see any changes, but the video is pretty choppy in my VM
[22:46] <mac_v> DanRabbit: where is it?
[22:46] <DanRabbit> in stock
[22:48] <mac_v> looks nice... 
[22:48] <mac_v> dont you like it?
[22:49] <DanRabbit> I do like it
[22:49] <DanRabbit> I think it's a big improvement
[22:49] <mac_v> yeah , looks almost real :)
[22:49] <DanRabbit> more of the "Ideal" human shape than it's predecessor
[22:49] <DanRabbit> yea, I know!
[22:52] <mac_v> DanRabbit: i'm dissected it , and notice how simple it seems once done ;p
[22:52] <mac_v> sheesh! *i'm dissecting*
[22:54] <DanRabbit> :p
[22:56] <DanRabbit> mac_v: I think you're right that we need less opacity on the panel icons
[22:56] <DanRabbit> maybe down to 40% instead of 50%
[22:56]  * mac_v using icons already at 40% ;p
[22:57] <mac_v> DanRabbit: yeah , since i use the dark panels i could notice the problem
[23:09] <DanRabbit> okay, I'm off to work :D
[23:09] <DanRabbit> bye