/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/06/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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jussi01Hello all!14:01
jussi01elky:  Pricey nalioth Pici around?14:01
elkynope!14:01
erUSULhi14:01
elkyum... darn, that blew my cover!14:01
naliothhow did i get here?14:02
PriceyHere14:02
* elky pokes MootBot14:02
Pricey#startmeeting14:03
MootBotMeeting started at 08:03. The chair is Pricey.14:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]14:03
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Priceygimme a second to clean the agenda..14:04
Pricey[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda14:04
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda14:04
elkycan i suggest we do the agenda backwards?14:05
elkyi believe we have people from the forums council joining, and we best not drag things on for them with the first point, which may end up in a lot of discussion14:06
elkys/forums/loco/14:06
Priceysure14:06
Pricey[topic] erUSUL - Lack of active ops is hurting #ubuntu-es. The Founder isn't responsible so we ask for a solution (give +f to an active op so more ops can be gathered)14:06
MootBotNew Topic:  erUSUL - Lack of active ops is hurting #ubuntu-es. The Founder isn't responsible so we ask for a solution (give +f to an active op so more ops can be gathered)14:06
jussi01Have we actually got people here from the loco council?14:07
elkypleia2, popey probably14:07
pleia2I'm not on the council14:07
m4vI only know effie_jayx and he's not here14:07
elkyoh, i thought you were...14:07
elkypleia2, who is on the loco council then, do you know?14:08
pleia2popey, effie_jayx, JanC, boredandblogging14:08
jussi01effie_jayx, boredandblogging, popey JanC and juliux14:08
elkydo we have any of them here?14:09
PriceyIs there anyone else from ubuntu-es here?14:09
jussi01m4v: you here?14:09
m4vyep14:09
m4verUSUL: ping14:09
erUSULhi14:09
m4vroaksoak seems missing14:10
erUSULRoakSoaX ?14:10
jussi01So, the background is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal14:10
jussi01Pricey: you might want to give MootBot that link...14:10
Pricey[link] trying..14:11
MootBotLINK received:  trying..14:11
Priceybah14:11
Pricey[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal14:11
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal14:11
elkym4v, erUSUL, what has the LoCo council said about this?14:12
m4vwe did not really approach them, as #ubuntu-es isn't a loco channel14:13
PriceyIs the leader of ubuntu-es active? ie the one listed as leader on the launchpad page?14:13
erUSULelky: we do no contacted the loco caouncil we thought the issue with the channel has to be discusswed with the irc council14:13
jussi01Ok, My proposal on this, after reading the background is that we make a reccomendation here and had it to the loco council to make a decision, with our reccomendation included.14:13
elkyerUSUL, the reason i ask this is that you appear to be asking the irc council to arbitrate over a much wider problem, some of which is out of our scope.14:14
m4velky: but effie_jayx complained before about the state of #ubuntu-es, is in the ubuntu-irc logs14:14
erUSULelky: the issue only affects the operation of the channel. as m4v mentioned #ubuntu-es is not a LoCo channel. is for help in spanish. it does not act as the channel for the spanish LoCo14:15
erUSULyep effie_jayx LjL and jdps stormed in the channel back in the day to try to fix things... they leave after a while though14:16
PriceyDo ubuntu-es have their own channel?14:17
jpdsPricey: ubuntu-es.org ?14:17
elkyPricey, -es-es14:17
elkyiirc14:17
PriceyOur naming policy says that -es is for hte spanish loco. And if things aren't working out atm, I think we should talk to them to get some leadership sorted in that channel.14:18
PriceyI can't say them turning away support from people not in spain.14:18
Pricey*see14:18
jpdsThey don't.14:19
Pricey-es's main purpose atm is for spanish support, and I don't see a problem with suggesting a Loco organise it.14:19
nikoas my hat of owner of uBOTu-fr bot, there is really problem in the channel, due to the less of +f on erUSUL14:19
erUSULPricey: the stautsu of ubuntu-es was discussed with jono and all the people involved in the spain LoCo and usesr of the channel back in the day14:20
jpdsPricey: It's because the LoCo and the channel owner had a feud years ago and they act as two completely separate entities now.14:20
erUSULPricey: a poll was made and the result was that the channel is the spanish support channel for spain and LatinAmerica14:21
Priceysure, but why can't we get the loco to help organise it?14:21
erUSULPricey: there is no point imho in fragmenting the channels.14:21
Pricey#ubuntu-es-es is barren anyway if htat is the real ubuntu-es loco channel?14:21
jpdsPricey: They've tried, but PELI... whatever doesn't want it.14:21
Priceyjpds: I thought people are suggesting that peli isn't doing a good job?14:22
jpdsPricey: -es-es has nothing to do with ubuntu-es.org.14:22
elkyPricey, i think you share my concern that moving it from one individual to another individual leaves it open to the risk of the same, correct?14:22
Priceyelky: yep14:22
jpdsPricey: I believe it was for ubuntu-spain.org.14:22
Priceyjpds: so ubuntu-es (the loco) doesn't have a channel?14:22
jpdsNo.14:22
Priceyelky: And I hope we have a perfectly good LoCo capable of sorting it.14:23
erUSULPricey: jpds and the web site has been having (avaibility issues) for a long time14:23
jpdsYeah, well... kelp does her best.14:23
elkyerUSUL, m4v, we're not questioning that something needs to be done. we're just trying to figure out the safest and most future-proof way of doing it.14:24
jussi01Who is the spanish loco leader?14:24
jpdsjussi01: ke|p.14:24
erUSULelky: ok; i just give the info i think is important to know.14:24
elkyjpds, is ke|p active?14:25
jpdsHaven't seen her in a while.14:25
jpdsPricey: Yeah, Peli doesn't do a good job14:25
m4vwell, I have been in #kubuntu-es for 2 years, an in #ubuntu-es for 9 months, I don't know anybody from the spanish loco.14:27
elkyhow many irc channels are there in the *buntu-es* namespace?14:28
erUSULelky: the ones i'm op and join are #ubuntu-es -ops -offtopic14:28
erUSULelky: so three of them14:28
elkyerUSUL, plus the kubuntu one/s?14:29
m4v#kubuntu-es, #ubuntu-es #ubuntu-es-offtopic and #ubuntu-es-ops are the main ones, there are other abandoned ones14:29
erUSULelky: the last ones where created during the jdps LjL effie_jayx storming14:29
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elkysee, i'm having this wild idea that it might be worth trialling an -es sub-council/board for irc14:30
m4vI don't know if getting the channels organized by the spanish loco it is good, I mean, its members aren't active in those channels, and there are many other spanish locos, like the argeninian, colombia, venezuela14:31
elkyPricey, jussi01, nalioth, Pici?14:32
erUSULelky: m4v well the oposition of moving the #ubuntu-es channel to the spain loco back in the day came from users of the channel in latinamerica. they thought i do too that a spanish channel is neccesary for all spanish speakers14:32
elkyerUSUL, that's not what i'm talking about.14:32
erUSULwhen someone enters #ubuntu speaking spansih i direct them to #ubuntu-es... i see no point of asking first what of the many spanish speaking countries he comes from14:33
PriceyerUSUL: I'm not wanting to move anything really.14:33
jpdselky: What m4v says, -es and ubuntu-es.org (was agreed) to cover all Hispanic LoCo, hence why -es-es and ubuntu-spain.org was created.14:33
PriceyI'm just wanting to find a group to take charge of things if needs be.14:34
elkyjpds, you know how the english-speaking channels have an irc team looking after them...14:34
jpdsGood point.14:35
elkyjpds, i want to see if it's possible to establish a spanish-speaking version of that team.14:35
m4vthat may be a good idea14:35
elkyso it's not just one person who ends up carrying the burden, or being bottleneck.14:35
jussi01Ok, so whats the exact proposal here then?14:37
elkyPricey, how about we motion that an #ubuntu-irc-es team be formed.14:38
elkys/#//14:38
Pricey[idea] < elky> Pricey, how about we motion that an #ubuntu-irc-es team be formed.14:39
MootBotIDEA received:  < elky> Pricey, how about we motion that an #ubuntu-irc-es team be formed.14:39
jussi01elky: I prefer to think we make a motion that the above happens, but only on the ratification of the Loco council.14:39
erUSULinitial members ? an op from all spanish loco channels ? someone else?14:39
elkyjussi01, lets not bunch several motions up together.14:40
nikojussi01: which loco ? only spanish one, or other spanish country too ?14:40
m4vniko: the loco council, there's only one I belive14:40
elkyerUSUL, people who are currently active in the relevant channels, who have a demonstratable history and respect with in the channels14:41
naliothniko: an ubuntu-irc-es council would best be served with a representative from each spanish speaking loco team14:41
nikoyes, this is a good idea14:41
elkynalioth, providing they all have someone of the correct calibre...14:41
naliothelky: of course14:42
PriceyThe ubuntu-es team on launchpad is a member of hte Ubuntu Loco Teams group?14:42
jussi01Fine, Id like a motion first that this decision is ratified by the loco council.14:42
jpdsPricey: Yep, that looks like the ubuntu-es.org team.14:42
Priceyjpds: just ubuntu-es14:43
elkyPricey, add another line to the motion if you can figure how, or just motion again.14:43
PriceyIs there no chance of us contacting the ubuntu-es team first?14:43
erUSULPricey: “#ubuntu-es” itself is not a member of any other team.14:43
PriceyAnd I assume nobody on the irc council has spoken to peli?14:43
jussi01I have not.14:44
elkyPricey, i've tried various times over the past few years. he's not once responded.14:44
erUSULPricey: as the background says he has a tendence to ignore all contact attemps. at least the ones i tried. memo and mail14:44
m4vif you find him, pelicano has been offline for 3 weeks now14:44
PriceyCan we try one last time, making it clear this communication is coming from the irc council, and address specifically this issue, mentioning all the concerns raised, cc'ing the loco council?14:45
PriceyI don't like people going above my head before coming to me is all.14:45
erUSULPricey: in the last 4 months when the flooding attacks make the situation worse than ever14:45
jussi01Pricey: I agree with that.14:45
jussi01nalioth: Pici around?14:46
erUSULPricey: so; i would writte an email to him with what contents? anything you (irc council) agree ? just my own words describing the situation ?14:47
elkyif i didn't have first-hand experience trying to contact him, i'd agree, but at this point it's only delaying things for the channels for no actual benefit.14:47
PriceyerUSUL: The IRC Council would attempt contact.14:47
erUSULok;14:47
jussi01erUSUL: Does he speak english?14:48
elkyjussi01, afaik, yes.14:48
PriceyI believe he has spoken English to me in the past.14:48
jussi01Righto14:49
erUSULi siad it multiple times and would like to say it here too. i do no like the idea of bypassing pelicano like that either that's why i asked only for +f for me so i can gather a few active ops and keep the channel running.14:49
erUSULhe invested time creating and managing the channel back in the day14:49
m4vthere's a log with effie_jayx http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/11/16/%23ubuntu-irc.html pointing out the problems with #ubuntu-es14:49
elkyerUSUL, that's still only a temporary measure. we want to establish something much more long-standing14:52
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erUSULfair enough14:53
Pricey[vote] IRC Council to attempt contact with current -es owner before approaching other groups.14:53
MootBotPlease vote on:  IRC Council to attempt contact with current -es owner before approaching other groups..14:53
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot14:53
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting14:53
Pricey(council members only please)14:53
jussi01+114:53
MootBot+1 received from jussi01. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 114:53
elky+014:53
MootBotAbstention received from elky. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 114:53
Pricey+114:54
MootBot+1 received from Pricey. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 214:54
nalioth+114:54
MootBot+1 received from nalioth. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 314:54
jussi01Ok, and pici isnt here.14:54
Pricey[endvote]14:54
MootBotFinal result is 3 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 314:54
PriceyFunky stuff, does p3l|c4no have an email address listed anywhere to help things? Else it will just be attempts over irc.14:55
elkyPricey, do we now vote on an interim measure (that still involves going over peli's head anyway)?14:55
erUSULPricey: his launchpad page has a gmail account. that what i've been using14:56
m4v/msg chanserv info #ubuntu-es14:56
erUSULPricey: https://launchpad.net/~gcamposm14:56
m4vhis email is there14:56
erUSULPricey: at least one of his work adresses is not valid14:56
Pricey[vote] Give +f to an operator as an interim measure until a long term solution can me implemented.14:56
MootBotPlease vote on:  Give +f to an operator as an interim measure until a long term solution can me implemented..14:56
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot14:56
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting14:56
PriceyThanks erUSUL.14:56
erUSULPricey: this one iirc  gcamposm@apesol.org.pe14:57
elky+114:57
MootBot+1 received from elky. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 114:57
jussi01+114:57
MootBot+1 received from jussi01. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 214:57
Pricey-114:57
MootBot-1 received from Pricey. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 114:57
jussi01nalioth: ?14:58
nalioth+114:59
MootBot+1 received from nalioth. 3 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 214:59
Pricey[endvote]14:59
MootBotFinal result is 3 for, 1 against. 0 abstained. Total: 214:59
PriceyFunky stuff, how do we want to do this? Volunteers?14:59
jussi01Pricey: I think its simple, erUSUL and another ubuntu member, as to not create anothe bottleneck.15:00
elkyPricey, i'd say erUSUL or m4v or both.15:00
m4vi did not understad that last part Pricey15:00
erUSULelky: m4v is op only in #kubuntu-es.15:00
Priceym4v: as in, who to give the +f to.15:00
erUSULjussi01: maybe me a roaksoax . both are the only active ops that has discussed this issue15:01
nikomost active is erUSUL as far i can see15:01
elkyerUSUL, we need to ensure we don't have another bottleneck if you get hit by a truck tomorrow, for example15:01
m4vI'm responsible for #kubuntu-es, I don't mind +f in #uubntu-es as long as erUSUL gets it too15:01
jussi01I would agree with erUSUL's öast statement15:02
erUSULwell both are the only active ops perios is a more real description15:02
jussi01erUSUL: and roaksoax15:02
erUSULperiod*15:02
nikojussi01: +115:02
m4vjussi01: I agree with that too.15:02
elkyPricey, wanna [vote] it?15:02
PriceyOne second, I'm a little confused here.15:03
PriceyAll +f is, is the ability to change the access list.15:03
elkyPricey, wanna [vote] "erUSUL + roaxsoax"15:03
PriceyThe IRC Council agreed to grant +f as an interim measure while we await contact from p3l|c4n015:03
erUSULPricey: to be able to gather a few active ops that can help the channel. (and use akick)15:04
PriceySo this +f is just basically trusting someone to add another couple of ops.15:04
erUSULexactly15:04
PriceyIt isn't giving them supreme leadership forever, bar none. etc. etc.15:04
m4vnope15:04
jussi01Pricey: Understand your concerns, no need to add more than needed.15:04
PriceyIt just asking them to look after things for the next week or so, while we wait for a reply.15:04
elkyPricey, yes, but one is still a bottleneck. if we do one, we might as well do two and avoid it being an interim extention of the bottleneck if hit-by-a-truck-syndrome hits.15:04
PriceyAs long as that's clear.15:05
Pricey[vote] +f for m4v and erUSUL in #ubuntu-es for hte interim measure, allowing them to assign more ops as necessary.15:05
MootBotPlease vote on:  +f for m4v and erUSUL in #ubuntu-es for hte interim measure, allowing them to assign more ops as necessary..15:05
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot15:05
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting15:05
PriceyI will abstain as I voted against the motion earlier.15:05
Pricey+015:05
MootBotAbstention received from Pricey. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 015:05
nalioth+115:06
MootBot+1 received from nalioth. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 115:06
elky+115:07
MootBot+1 received from elky. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 215:07
Priceyjussi0115:07
jussi01yeah, im thinking.15:07
jussi01+115:09
MootBot+1 received from jussi01. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 315:09
Pricey[endvote]15:10
MootBotFinal result is 3 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 315:10
Pricey[action] elky to get m4v and erUSUL +f in -es15:10
MootBotACTION received:  elky to get m4v and erUSUL +f in -es15:10
Pricey[action] Council to attempt contact with p3l|c4n015:10
MootBotACTION received:  Council to attempt contact with p3l|c4n015:10
PriceyAnything else on this issue or shall we move to the other item?15:11
elkynext item please, it's taken an hour for this.15:11
* nalioth has nothing further15:11
jussi01Lets move on :)15:11
erUSULit's over ? Thanks for your time and help15:11
m4vthanks :D15:11
Pricey[topic] jussi01 - Modes in/proper usage of the #ubuntu-irc-council channel15:11
MootBotNew Topic:  jussi01 - Modes in/proper usage of the #ubuntu-irc-council channel15:11
erUSULelky: Pricey nalioth jussi01 much apreciated15:11
* erUSUL hopes pelicano does not see all this as a personal attack...15:12
jussi01Ok, we discussed this last time, and didnt come to a decsion, I have a proposal to make, but want to see if anyone else has thought of a proposal first.15:12
elkynot i15:13
jussi01Anyone else have a proposal?15:14
naliothnot i15:14
elkyif you're looking for other people to propose things, maybe poll the -irc mailing list.15:14
jussi01My proposal is that we take this to the Ubuntu-irc mailing list, and ask for proposals on what the current operators feel would be a useful interface to the IRC council. We then talk about it next metting.15:14
elkyha15:15
Priceyreally?15:15
elkyi has a worm in my braaaaaaaain.15:15
elkyit's stealing my thoughts.15:15
jussi01Pricey: the channel is there for users, I think we should at least ask them how they would like to interact with us.15:17
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* erUSUL :) wonders if the worn eats elky's thoughts? why it has not starved yet ?15:17
erUSULXD15:17
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* elky plants her foot on erUSUL butt.15:17
elkyout! :P15:18
PriceyOk well nobody else has any other proposals.15:18
Pricey[action] we take this to the Ubuntu-irc mailing list, and ask for proposals on what the current operators feel would be a  useful interface to the IRC council. We then talk about it next metting.15:18
MootBotACTION received:  we take this to the Ubuntu-irc mailing list, and ask for proposals on what the current operators feel would be a  useful interface to the IRC council. We then talk about it next metting.15:18
PriceyThat's all we have on the agenda. Anything else from the Council?15:19
jussi01Nothing from me.15:19
elkyi motion that i go sleep.15:19
jussi01+1 for that15:19
jussi01:D15:19
st33medelky, motion denied15:19
Priceynalioth?15:19
elkyst33med, you're volunteering to drive me through sydney traffic early tomorrow morning?15:20
st33medOh errrr.15:20
st33medMotion approved with trumpets15:20
elkyexcellent.15:20
jussi01ok, can we end meeting now?15:20
Pricey#endmeeting15:21
MootBotMeeting finished at 09:21.15:21
* jussi01 has places to be...15:21
jussi01Ok, see you all :D15:21
elkybye15:21
naliothmiller time15:21
naliotheveryone take care15:21
* erUSUL waves15:21
m4vcya all15:22
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JanCerUSUL / elky / pleia2 / jussi01 / e.a. : sorry, I was busy promoting Ubuntu at a computer fair at the time you pinged me  ;)20:47
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erUSULJanC: they where pricey and elky the ones who wanted to contaxt somone from the loco council...22:19
JanCyeah, you were involved in the discussion around the "ping" too, that's why I mentioned you too22:20
erUSULok; no worries ;)22:21
JanCand to let everybody know I was around in case anything was still needed22:22

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