[14:01] <jussi01> Hello all!
[14:01] <jussi01> elky:  Pricey nalioth Pici around?
[14:01] <elky> nope!
[14:01] <erUSUL> hi
[14:01] <elky> um... darn, that blew my cover!
[14:02] <nalioth> how did i get here?
[14:02] <Pricey> Here
[14:02]  * elky pokes MootBot
[14:03] <Pricey> #startmeeting
[14:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:03. The chair is Pricey.
[14:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:04] <Pricey> gimme a second to clean the agenda..
[14:04] <Pricey> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
[14:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
[14:05] <elky> can i suggest we do the agenda backwards?
[14:06] <elky> i believe we have people from the forums council joining, and we best not drag things on for them with the first point, which may end up in a lot of discussion
[14:06] <elky> s/forums/loco/
[14:06] <Pricey> sure
[14:06] <Pricey> [topic] erUSUL - Lack of active ops is hurting #ubuntu-es. The Founder isn't responsible so we ask for a solution (give +f to an active op so more ops can be gathered)
[14:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  erUSUL - Lack of active ops is hurting #ubuntu-es. The Founder isn't responsible so we ask for a solution (give +f to an active op so more ops can be gathered)
[14:07] <jussi01> Have we actually got people here from the loco council?
[14:07] <elky> pleia2, popey probably
[14:07] <pleia2> I'm not on the council
[14:07] <m4v> I only know effie_jayx and he's not here
[14:07] <elky> oh, i thought you were...
[14:08] <elky> pleia2, who is on the loco council then, do you know?
[14:08] <pleia2> popey, effie_jayx, JanC, boredandblogging
[14:08] <jussi01> effie_jayx, boredandblogging, popey JanC and juliux
[14:09] <elky> do we have any of them here?
[14:09] <Pricey> Is there anyone else from ubuntu-es here?
[14:09] <jussi01> m4v: you here?
[14:09] <m4v> yep
[14:09] <m4v> erUSUL: ping
[14:09] <erUSUL> hi
[14:10] <m4v> roaksoak seems missing
[14:10] <erUSUL> RoakSoaX ?
[14:10] <jussi01> So, the background is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
[14:10] <jussi01> Pricey: you might want to give MootBot that link...
[14:11] <Pricey> [link] trying..
[14:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  trying..
[14:11] <Pricey> bah
[14:11] <Pricey> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
[14:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
[14:12] <elky> m4v, erUSUL, what has the LoCo council said about this?
[14:13] <m4v> we did not really approach them, as #ubuntu-es isn't a loco channel
[14:13] <Pricey> Is the leader of ubuntu-es active? ie the one listed as leader on the launchpad page?
[14:13] <erUSUL> elky: we do no contacted the loco caouncil we thought the issue with the channel has to be discusswed with the irc council
[14:13] <jussi01> Ok, My proposal on this, after reading the background is that we make a reccomendation here and had it to the loco council to make a decision, with our reccomendation included.
[14:14] <elky> erUSUL, the reason i ask this is that you appear to be asking the irc council to arbitrate over a much wider problem, some of which is out of our scope.
[14:14] <m4v> elky: but effie_jayx complained before about the state of #ubuntu-es, is in the ubuntu-irc logs
[14:15] <erUSUL> elky: the issue only affects the operation of the channel. as m4v mentioned #ubuntu-es is not a LoCo channel. is for help in spanish. it does not act as the channel for the spanish LoCo
[14:16] <erUSUL> yep effie_jayx LjL and jdps stormed in the channel back in the day to try to fix things... they leave after a while though
[14:17] <Pricey> Do ubuntu-es have their own channel?
[14:17] <jpds> Pricey: ubuntu-es.org ?
[14:17] <elky> Pricey, -es-es
[14:17] <elky> iirc
[14:18] <Pricey> Our naming policy says that -es is for hte spanish loco. And if things aren't working out atm, I think we should talk to them to get some leadership sorted in that channel.
[14:18] <Pricey> I can't say them turning away support from people not in spain.
[14:18] <Pricey> *see
[14:19] <jpds> They don't.
[14:19] <Pricey> -es's main purpose atm is for spanish support, and I don't see a problem with suggesting a Loco organise it.
[14:19] <niko> as my hat of owner of uBOTu-fr bot, there is really problem in the channel, due to the less of +f on erUSUL
[14:20] <erUSUL> Pricey: the stautsu of ubuntu-es was discussed with jono and all the people involved in the spain LoCo and usesr of the channel back in the day
[14:20] <jpds> Pricey: It's because the LoCo and the channel owner had a feud years ago and they act as two completely separate entities now.
[14:21] <erUSUL> Pricey: a poll was made and the result was that the channel is the spanish support channel for spain and LatinAmerica
[14:21] <Pricey> sure, but why can't we get the loco to help organise it?
[14:21] <erUSUL> Pricey: there is no point imho in fragmenting the channels.
[14:21] <Pricey> #ubuntu-es-es is barren anyway if htat is the real ubuntu-es loco channel?
[14:21] <jpds> Pricey: They've tried, but PELI... whatever doesn't want it.
[14:22] <Pricey> jpds: I thought people are suggesting that peli isn't doing a good job?
[14:22] <jpds> Pricey: -es-es has nothing to do with ubuntu-es.org.
[14:22] <elky> Pricey, i think you share my concern that moving it from one individual to another individual leaves it open to the risk of the same, correct?
[14:22] <Pricey> elky: yep
[14:22] <jpds> Pricey: I believe it was for ubuntu-spain.org.
[14:22] <Pricey> jpds: so ubuntu-es (the loco) doesn't have a channel?
[14:22] <jpds> No.
[14:23] <Pricey> elky: And I hope we have a perfectly good LoCo capable of sorting it.
[14:23] <erUSUL> Pricey: jpds and the web site has been having (avaibility issues) for a long time
[14:23] <jpds> Yeah, well... kelp does her best.
[14:24] <elky> erUSUL, m4v, we're not questioning that something needs to be done. we're just trying to figure out the safest and most future-proof way of doing it.
[14:24] <jussi01> Who is the spanish loco leader?
[14:24] <jpds> jussi01: ke|p.
[14:24] <erUSUL> elky: ok; i just give the info i think is important to know.
[14:25] <elky> jpds, is ke|p active?
[14:25] <jpds> Haven't seen her in a while.
[14:25] <jpds> Pricey: Yeah, Peli doesn't do a good job
[14:27] <m4v> well, I have been in #kubuntu-es for 2 years, an in #ubuntu-es for 9 months, I don't know anybody from the spanish loco.
[14:28] <elky> how many irc channels are there in the *buntu-es* namespace?
[14:28] <erUSUL> elky: the ones i'm op and join are #ubuntu-es -ops -offtopic
[14:28] <erUSUL> elky: so three of them
[14:29] <elky> erUSUL, plus the kubuntu one/s?
[14:29] <m4v> #kubuntu-es, #ubuntu-es #ubuntu-es-offtopic and #ubuntu-es-ops are the main ones, there are other abandoned ones
[14:29] <erUSUL> elky: the last ones where created during the jdps LjL effie_jayx storming
[14:30] <elky> see, i'm having this wild idea that it might be worth trialling an -es sub-council/board for irc
[14:31] <m4v> I don't know if getting the channels organized by the spanish loco it is good, I mean, its members aren't active in those channels, and there are many other spanish locos, like the argeninian, colombia, venezuela
[14:32] <elky> Pricey, jussi01, nalioth, Pici?
[14:32] <erUSUL> elky: m4v well the oposition of moving the #ubuntu-es channel to the spain loco back in the day came from users of the channel in latinamerica. they thought i do too that a spanish channel is neccesary for all spanish speakers
[14:32] <elky> erUSUL, that's not what i'm talking about.
[14:33] <erUSUL> when someone enters #ubuntu speaking spansih i direct them to #ubuntu-es... i see no point of asking first what of the many spanish speaking countries he comes from
[14:33] <Pricey> erUSUL: I'm not wanting to move anything really.
[14:33] <jpds> elky: What m4v says, -es and ubuntu-es.org (was agreed) to cover all Hispanic LoCo, hence why -es-es and ubuntu-spain.org was created.
[14:34] <Pricey> I'm just wanting to find a group to take charge of things if needs be.
[14:34] <elky> jpds, you know how the english-speaking channels have an irc team looking after them...
[14:35] <jpds> Good point.
[14:35] <elky> jpds, i want to see if it's possible to establish a spanish-speaking version of that team.
[14:35] <m4v> that may be a good idea
[14:35] <elky> so it's not just one person who ends up carrying the burden, or being bottleneck.
[14:37] <jussi01> Ok, so whats the exact proposal here then?
[14:38] <elky> Pricey, how about we motion that an #ubuntu-irc-es team be formed.
[14:38] <elky> s/#//
[14:39] <Pricey> [idea] < elky> Pricey, how about we motion that an #ubuntu-irc-es team be formed.
[14:39] <MootBot> IDEA received:  < elky> Pricey, how about we motion that an #ubuntu-irc-es team be formed.
[14:39] <jussi01> elky: I prefer to think we make a motion that the above happens, but only on the ratification of the Loco council.
[14:39] <erUSUL> initial members ? an op from all spanish loco channels ? someone else?
[14:40] <elky> jussi01, lets not bunch several motions up together.
[14:40] <niko> jussi01: which loco ? only spanish one, or other spanish country too ?
[14:40] <m4v> niko: the loco council, there's only one I belive
[14:41] <elky> erUSUL, people who are currently active in the relevant channels, who have a demonstratable history and respect with in the channels
[14:41] <nalioth> niko: an ubuntu-irc-es council would best be served with a representative from each spanish speaking loco team
[14:41] <niko> yes, this is a good idea
[14:41] <elky> nalioth, providing they all have someone of the correct calibre...
[14:42] <nalioth> elky: of course
[14:42] <Pricey> The ubuntu-es team on launchpad is a member of hte Ubuntu Loco Teams group?
[14:42] <jussi01> Fine, Id like a motion first that this decision is ratified by the loco council.
[14:42] <jpds> Pricey: Yep, that looks like the ubuntu-es.org team.
[14:43] <Pricey> jpds: just ubuntu-es
[14:43] <elky> Pricey, add another line to the motion if you can figure how, or just motion again.
[14:43] <Pricey> Is there no chance of us contacting the ubuntu-es team first?
[14:43] <erUSUL> Pricey: “#ubuntu-es” itself is not a member of any other team.
[14:43] <Pricey> And I assume nobody on the irc council has spoken to peli?
[14:44] <jussi01> I have not.
[14:44] <elky> Pricey, i've tried various times over the past few years. he's not once responded.
[14:44] <erUSUL> Pricey: as the background says he has a tendence to ignore all contact attemps. at least the ones i tried. memo and mail
[14:44] <m4v> if you find him, pelicano has been offline for 3 weeks now
[14:45] <Pricey> Can we try one last time, making it clear this communication is coming from the irc council, and address specifically this issue, mentioning all the concerns raised, cc'ing the loco council?
[14:45] <Pricey> I don't like people going above my head before coming to me is all.
[14:45] <erUSUL> Pricey: in the last 4 months when the flooding attacks make the situation worse than ever
[14:45] <jussi01> Pricey: I agree with that.
[14:46] <jussi01> nalioth: Pici around?
[14:47] <erUSUL> Pricey: so; i would writte an email to him with what contents? anything you (irc council) agree ? just my own words describing the situation ?
[14:47] <elky> if i didn't have first-hand experience trying to contact him, i'd agree, but at this point it's only delaying things for the channels for no actual benefit.
[14:47] <Pricey> erUSUL: The IRC Council would attempt contact.
[14:47] <erUSUL> ok;
[14:48] <jussi01> erUSUL: Does he speak english?
[14:48] <elky> jussi01, afaik, yes.
[14:48] <Pricey> I believe he has spoken English to me in the past.
[14:49] <jussi01> Righto
[14:49] <erUSUL> i siad it multiple times and would like to say it here too. i do no like the idea of bypassing pelicano like that either that's why i asked only for +f for me so i can gather a few active ops and keep the channel running.
[14:49] <erUSUL> he invested time creating and managing the channel back in the day
[14:49] <m4v> there's a log with effie_jayx http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/11/16/%23ubuntu-irc.html pointing out the problems with #ubuntu-es
[14:52] <elky> erUSUL, that's still only a temporary measure. we want to establish something much more long-standing
[14:53] <erUSUL> fair enough
[14:53] <Pricey> [vote] IRC Council to attempt contact with current -es owner before approaching other groups.
[14:53] <MootBot> Please vote on:  IRC Council to attempt contact with current -es owner before approaching other groups..
[14:53] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[14:53] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[14:53] <Pricey> (council members only please)
[14:53] <jussi01> +1
[14:53] <MootBot> +1 received from jussi01. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[14:53] <elky> +0
[14:53] <MootBot> Abstention received from elky. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[14:54] <Pricey> +1
[14:54] <MootBot> +1 received from Pricey. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[14:54] <nalioth> +1
[14:54] <MootBot> +1 received from nalioth. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[14:54] <jussi01> Ok, and pici isnt here.
[14:54] <Pricey> [endvote]
[14:54] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 3
[14:55] <Pricey> Funky stuff, does p3l|c4no have an email address listed anywhere to help things? Else it will just be attempts over irc.
[14:55] <elky> Pricey, do we now vote on an interim measure (that still involves going over peli's head anyway)?
[14:56] <erUSUL> Pricey: his launchpad page has a gmail account. that what i've been using
[14:56] <m4v> /msg chanserv info #ubuntu-es
[14:56] <erUSUL> Pricey: https://launchpad.net/~gcamposm
[14:56] <m4v> his email is there
[14:56] <erUSUL> Pricey: at least one of his work adresses is not valid
[14:56] <Pricey> [vote] Give +f to an operator as an interim measure until a long term solution can me implemented.
[14:56] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Give +f to an operator as an interim measure until a long term solution can me implemented..
[14:56] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[14:56] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[14:56] <Pricey> Thanks erUSUL.
[14:57] <erUSUL> Pricey: this one iirc  gcamposm@apesol.org.pe
[14:57] <elky> +1
[14:57] <MootBot> +1 received from elky. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[14:57] <jussi01> +1
[14:57] <MootBot> +1 received from jussi01. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[14:57] <Pricey> -1
[14:57] <MootBot> -1 received from Pricey. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[14:58] <jussi01> nalioth: ?
[14:59] <nalioth> +1
[14:59] <MootBot> +1 received from nalioth. 3 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[14:59] <Pricey> [endvote]
[14:59] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 1 against. 0 abstained. Total: 2
[14:59] <Pricey> Funky stuff, how do we want to do this? Volunteers?
[15:00] <jussi01> Pricey: I think its simple, erUSUL and another ubuntu member, as to not create anothe bottleneck.
[15:00] <elky> Pricey, i'd say erUSUL or m4v or both.
[15:00] <m4v> i did not understad that last part Pricey
[15:00] <erUSUL> elky: m4v is op only in #kubuntu-es.
[15:00] <Pricey> m4v: as in, who to give the +f to.
[15:01] <erUSUL> jussi01: maybe me a roaksoax . both are the only active ops that has discussed this issue
[15:01] <niko> most active is erUSUL as far i can see
[15:01] <elky> erUSUL, we need to ensure we don't have another bottleneck if you get hit by a truck tomorrow, for example
[15:01] <m4v> I'm responsible for #kubuntu-es, I don't mind +f in #uubntu-es as long as erUSUL gets it too
[15:02] <jussi01> I would agree with erUSUL's öast statement
[15:02] <erUSUL> well both are the only active ops perios is a more real description
[15:02] <jussi01> erUSUL: and roaksoax
[15:02] <erUSUL> period*
[15:02] <niko> jussi01: +1
[15:02] <m4v> jussi01: I agree with that too.
[15:02] <elky> Pricey, wanna [vote] it?
[15:03] <Pricey> One second, I'm a little confused here.
[15:03] <Pricey> All +f is, is the ability to change the access list.
[15:03] <elky> Pricey, wanna [vote] "erUSUL + roaxsoax"
[15:03] <Pricey> The IRC Council agreed to grant +f as an interim measure while we await contact from p3l|c4n0
[15:04] <erUSUL> Pricey: to be able to gather a few active ops that can help the channel. (and use akick)
[15:04] <Pricey> So this +f is just basically trusting someone to add another couple of ops.
[15:04] <erUSUL> exactly
[15:04] <Pricey> It isn't giving them supreme leadership forever, bar none. etc. etc.
[15:04] <m4v> nope
[15:04] <jussi01> Pricey: Understand your concerns, no need to add more than needed.
[15:04] <Pricey> It just asking them to look after things for the next week or so, while we wait for a reply.
[15:04] <elky> Pricey, yes, but one is still a bottleneck. if we do one, we might as well do two and avoid it being an interim extention of the bottleneck if hit-by-a-truck-syndrome hits.
[15:05] <Pricey> As long as that's clear.
[15:05] <Pricey> [vote] +f for m4v and erUSUL in #ubuntu-es for hte interim measure, allowing them to assign more ops as necessary.
[15:05] <MootBot> Please vote on:  +f for m4v and erUSUL in #ubuntu-es for hte interim measure, allowing them to assign more ops as necessary..
[15:05] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[15:05] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[15:05] <Pricey> I will abstain as I voted against the motion earlier.
[15:05] <Pricey> +0
[15:05] <MootBot> Abstention received from Pricey. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[15:06] <nalioth> +1
[15:06] <MootBot> +1 received from nalioth. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:07] <elky> +1
[15:07] <MootBot> +1 received from elky. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[15:07] <Pricey> jussi01
[15:07] <jussi01> yeah, im thinking.
[15:09] <jussi01> +1
[15:09] <MootBot> +1 received from jussi01. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[15:10] <Pricey> [endvote]
[15:10] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 3
[15:10] <Pricey> [action] elky to get m4v and erUSUL +f in -es
[15:10] <MootBot> ACTION received:  elky to get m4v and erUSUL +f in -es
[15:10] <Pricey> [action] Council to attempt contact with p3l|c4n0
[15:10] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Council to attempt contact with p3l|c4n0
[15:11] <Pricey> Anything else on this issue or shall we move to the other item?
[15:11] <elky> next item please, it's taken an hour for this.
[15:11]  * nalioth has nothing further
[15:11] <jussi01> Lets move on :)
[15:11] <erUSUL> it's over ? Thanks for your time and help
[15:11] <m4v> thanks :D
[15:11] <Pricey> [topic] jussi01 - Modes in/proper usage of the #ubuntu-irc-council channel
[15:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  jussi01 - Modes in/proper usage of the #ubuntu-irc-council channel
[15:11] <erUSUL> elky: Pricey nalioth jussi01 much apreciated
[15:12]  * erUSUL hopes pelicano does not see all this as a personal attack...
[15:12] <jussi01> Ok, we discussed this last time, and didnt come to a decsion, I have a proposal to make, but want to see if anyone else has thought of a proposal first.
[15:13] <elky> not i
[15:14] <jussi01> Anyone else have a proposal?
[15:14] <nalioth> not i
[15:14] <elky> if you're looking for other people to propose things, maybe poll the -irc mailing list.
[15:14] <jussi01> My proposal is that we take this to the Ubuntu-irc mailing list, and ask for proposals on what the current operators feel would be a useful interface to the IRC council. We then talk about it next metting.
[15:15] <elky> ha
[15:15] <Pricey> really?
[15:15] <elky> i has a worm in my braaaaaaaain.
[15:15] <elky> it's stealing my thoughts.
[15:17] <jussi01> Pricey: the channel is there for users, I think we should at least ask them how they would like to interact with us.
[15:17]  * erUSUL :) wonders if the worn eats elky's thoughts? why it has not starved yet ?
[15:17] <erUSUL> XD
[15:17]  * elky plants her foot on erUSUL butt.
[15:18] <elky> out! :P
[15:18] <Pricey> Ok well nobody else has any other proposals.
[15:18] <Pricey> [action] we take this to the Ubuntu-irc mailing list, and ask for proposals on what the current operators feel would be a  useful interface to the IRC council. We then talk about it next metting.
[15:18] <MootBot> ACTION received:  we take this to the Ubuntu-irc mailing list, and ask for proposals on what the current operators feel would be a  useful interface to the IRC council. We then talk about it next metting.
[15:19] <Pricey> That's all we have on the agenda. Anything else from the Council?
[15:19] <jussi01> Nothing from me.
[15:19] <elky> i motion that i go sleep.
[15:19] <jussi01> +1 for that
[15:19] <jussi01> :D
[15:19] <st33med> elky, motion denied
[15:19] <Pricey> nalioth?
[15:20] <elky> st33med, you're volunteering to drive me through sydney traffic early tomorrow morning?
[15:20] <st33med> Oh errrr.
[15:20] <st33med> Motion approved with trumpets
[15:20] <elky> excellent.
[15:20] <jussi01> ok, can we end meeting now?
[15:21] <Pricey> #endmeeting
[15:21] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:21.
[15:21]  * jussi01 has places to be...
[15:21] <jussi01> Ok, see you all :D
[15:21] <elky> bye
[15:21] <nalioth> miller time
[15:21] <nalioth> everyone take care
[15:21]  * erUSUL waves
[15:22] <m4v> cya all
[20:47] <JanC> erUSUL / elky / pleia2 / jussi01 / e.a. : sorry, I was busy promoting Ubuntu at a computer fair at the time you pinged me  ;)
[22:19] <erUSUL> JanC: they where pricey and elky the ones who wanted to contaxt somone from the loco council...
[22:20] <JanC> yeah, you were involved in the discussion around the "ping" too, that's why I mentioned you too
[22:21] <erUSUL> ok; no worries ;)
[22:22] <JanC> and to let everybody know I was around in case anything was still needed