/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/07/#kubuntu-devel.txt

a|wenRiddell: I've prepared an update for the kopete-facebook plugin fixing the "crash-on-exit" bug (and hopefully also the other crasher-bugs as they have somewhat similar backtraces)... http://awen.dk/packages/kopete-facebook/00:01
ryanakcanixternal: lp:~kubuntu-website/kubuntu-website/kubuntu-theme-v2 has the theming... page.tpl.php ... It's for Drupal 5.13 ...00:03
nixternalgroovy, thanks ryanakca00:14
JontheEchindahrrrrMMMmm: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Oxygen-Molecule+KDE+%26+GTK%2B+unified+theme?content=10374101:35
* JontheEchinda considers another FFE :P01:36
ScottKa|wen: The ooo-thumbnailer for KDE is in.02:44
a|wenScottK: thx a lot!02:44
ScottKa|wen: No problem.  It was an easy package to review.02:44
a|wenindeed a nice small package for once02:45
=== EagleScreen_ is now known as EagleScreen
shtylmanryanakca: you got any screenshots of your kubuntu site work?04:34
jjesseryanakca did nixternal ever get back to you in regards to help.kubuntu.org?04:38
nixternaljjesse: it is on my TODO list04:48
jjessenixternal it better be :)  iwanted it out for jaunty :)04:54
nixternalya, that was impossible04:54
nixternalour docs currently suck to turn into a web help system04:54
jjesseyeah i know that04:54
jjessegot my netbook reloaded so i'm good to start hacking again :)04:55
jussi01Hey Riddell, when you wake up, did you report that bug about open office icons? I didnt get round to it as ubuntu-bug was crashing - if you didnt do it yet Ill do it soon.05:57
JontheEchinda[14:12:03] * Riddell away until thursday06:00
JontheEchindaon that note, it is 1 am and I should get to bed06:00
jussi01JontheEchinda: oh... thanks :)06:08
nixternalman, I hope they do something with the images/icons used in the slide show for the ubuntu installer...those images are horrid looking07:36
* nixternal notes people said something about "KDE 3 looks to cartoonish for me"07:36
nixternallook at the pidgin image....holy shit that would scare me into stopping the install :p07:37
* jussi01 hugs nixternal08:09
=== Blizzzek is now known as Blizzz
ghostcubemorning09:51
a|wenmorning ghostcube09:51
* ghostcube getting some coffee 09:51
ghostcube:D09:51
a|wenany core-dev around? I've prepared an update for the kopete-facebook plugin (new upstream release) fixing the "crash-on-exit" bug (and hopefully also the other crasher-bugs as they have somewhat similar backtraces)... http://awen.dk/packages/kopete-facebook/09:52
neversfeldebug #411020 needs a sponsor10:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 411020 in plasma-widget-stasks "stasks widget allocates panel space but won't show any window-symbol under kde4.3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/41102010:26
a|wenneversfelde: plasma-widget-stasks uploaded11:56
neversfeldea|wen: thanks11:57
ghostcubebtw what is meant by needs a sponsor ?12:04
ghostcubewebspace ?12:04
ghostcubeor someone building it in its ppa12:05
neversfeldeghostcube: someone who has the right to upload to ubuntu12:05
neversfeldein this case a MOTU12:05
ghostcubeahhh12:06
ghostcubethx neversfelde12:06
ghostcubecause if it meant webspace i had offered some12:06
ghostcube:)12:07
neversfeldeenough webspace here >:)12:09
ghostcube12:14
ghostcube12:14
JontheEchinda!grub | JontheEchinda13:16
ubottuJontheEchinda, please see my private message13:16
Nightrosei'm no longer able to connect to hidden networks after an upgrade13:33
Nightroseworked before13:33
Nightrosehow can i go back to a previous version of knetworkmanager (?)13:34
ghostcubeapt-pining13:35
ghostcubeor how its called13:35
ghostcubeyou can say what version to install13:35
ghostcubebut i forgotten how it works in detail13:35
neversfeldehttp://wiki.kubuntu-de.org/Konfiguration/Programme_installieren/Paketmanagement/apt13:42
neversfeldegerman only13:42
ScottKa|wen: qjson is uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.13:59
ScottKThat'll need to get published before kopete-facebook can go.13:59
ghostcubeneversfelde: hmm i must bookmark the kubuntu wiki ... looks good14:04
ghostcube:)14:04
neversfelde:) needs much more work14:06
ScottKNCommander: Would you please look at kdeplasma-addons FTBFS on armel?  It's the only thing we lack to have a complete armel Live CD.14:09
a|wenScottK: thx ... sure. kopete-facebook needs the new qjson to build14:58
shtylmancan someone take a look at the slides/kubuntu folder in: lp:~shtylman/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/kubuntu-slideshow  ... and add something to the konqueror page? as well as review the other text... the sooner the better :)16:10
agateauSeems the discussion is slowing on Ayatana notifications,16:31
agateauanyone of you did try it?16:32
agateauRiddell: ScottK: seele: sebas: ^16:33
a|wenagateau: the message notification thingy interacting with kopete/kmail atm?16:33
sebasagateau: sorry, I'm totally swamped these days ... work/work, some tokamakstuff to wrap up and interesting code to write myself16:34
sebasI hope the code review was useful for you16:34
agateaua|wen: no, ayatana notifications16:34
neversfeldeagateau: what exactly needs testing?16:34
agateauhttp://people.canonical.com/~agateau/plasma-ayatana-notifications/index.html16:35
agateauneversfelde: a|wen ^16:35
agateausebas: it was, but I am still not sure porting to QGraphicsWidget would bring anything16:35
agateausebas: I also realize my first screenshot did not show the notifications were above windows,16:36
agateauwhich may change your interpretation of them16:36
a|wenoh, looks cool enough ... need to test that out16:39
neversfeldeok, now I need a notification :)16:39
sebasagateau: the QWidget / vs QGV thing is not so important right now (though doing it will allow you with Qt 4.6 to use QGraphicsEffect, a new effect API)16:40
sebasfor top-level widgets it isn't so useful right now16:40
agateausebas: ok16:40
sebasBut by all means, get this thing sorted with aseigo first16:41
sebasI've only done a shallow technical review, I'm not up to speed about integration issues with xdg and stuff16:41
sebasother than "I'd hate to see patches removing actions and I don't think automatically stripping actions or HTML from the notifications will produce good results"16:41
agateausebas: is this your voice or aaron?16:42
* a|wen thinks his KDE needs a restart after last update ... i'm loosing icons fast; and configuration dialogs gives strange warnings16:42
agateaubecause I am afraid I won't go anywhere showing this to aaron16:43
sebasmy ignorant opinion16:43
sebasthe review was mine16:43
agateauhe will just say what you just said about actions and won't bother looking at the techy parts16:43
sebasWell, the actions part is pretty clear16:43
sebasnobody except Canonical thinks it's a good idea16:43
sebasxfce, gnome, kde, ...16:44
agateaunote that I originally did not remove actions16:44
sebasTo me this looks very much like a dead end16:44
neversfeldeagateau: I got a message via kopete, it was shown a notification, but only for the first message, the second was not shown and the plasma-desktop crashed16:44
agateauneversfelde: ouch16:45
agateaudo you have the backtrace?16:45
sebasone thing that needs to be sorted here is where the sweet spot is between Ayatana and Plasma, since design ideas are partly overlapping and don't match16:45
sebaslike the exact margining and stuff (I think you fixed that already)16:45
neversfeldeah, quassel works :)16:45
neversfeldehttp://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/3616:45
agateausebas: yes, I removed quite a few hardcoded margins16:45
sebasAnd the simple fact the the panel and notification area in KDE is in a different place than in GNOME16:45
sebasgood :)16:46
neversfeldeand kmail, too16:46
agateausebas: I want to make it possible to configure the position of the notification on the desktop16:46
sebasI'm also a bit disappointed that the first thing to show is a complete reimplementation, not a gradual improvement of the current plasma notifications16:46
sebaswhich would make way more sense to me16:46
sebaswould also politically be smart to first tackle the parts that are common ground16:47
agateausebas: I would not call this a complete reimplementation... lots of code is kept in common16:47
agateaumuch more than my previous separate-binary version16:48
sebaswell, it doesn't improve the current notifications in PLasma at all16:48
sebasit's a separate running app, doesn't tie in with teh system tray (neither new spec nor implementation in Plasma)16:48
agateauit's not a separate running app16:48
sebaseven if it uses Plasma::Theme, it's pretty useless for us and from PLasma POV it's simply duplicating work16:48
agateauwhere did you read this?16:48
sebaswell, widget-thingie16:49
sebasit works around plasma, rather than integrated into16:49
agateauit's a patch against the systemtray applet16:50
agateauhow can this be "not integrated"?16:50
agateauit's as much integrated as Plasma Tooltips are integrated into Plasma16:50
neversfeldeok, second time testing it with kopete, there was no crash, probably coincidence16:50
agateauneversfelde: I am afraid the crash may have to do with message indicator, not the ayatana notificiatinos16:51
sebasagateau: well, it supplies a completely different widget to do the same as the current notifications16:51
agateausebas: true16:51
sebasBut yeah, I don't really feel like fixing technical things that are so much in the air right now16:51
agateauI would have happily reused the Tooltip widget, if it were public16:51
neversfeldeagateau: maybe, I removed it for the second test16:51
sebasI'd rather work on code myself tbh, this political thing costs me too much of my energy16:51
sebasagateau: maybe it makes sense to make it public then16:52
agateauI think one really need to use it for one day or two, to make an opinion on it16:52
sebas(just a guess)16:52
agateaucould be nice16:52
sebasyeah, that costs time, and Plasma is for me very much a spare time thing right now16:53
agateauif you are running Karmic, you can use the binary I uploaded16:54
sebasAnd as I said, I don't want to invest what from upstream POV very much looks like a dead horse16:54
agateauI understand this, I just believe it needs to be experienced before being rejected16:54
sebasdoes anyone know if you can compile the nvidia brinary driver with a current 2.6.31 kernel?16:54
ScottKagateau: From my perspective until Ayatana moves off of the 'No actions' approach, it's not going anywhere.16:55
dtchensebas: yes, you can compile 185.18.3616:55
sebasdtchen: ah, tried 190 as well?16:55
agateauScottK: you agreed with seele to remove them as par of the experience!16:55
neversfeldeI am not sure about these "lighter notifications", but for now, I like them :). They shouldn't be on top, but I guess this was discussed before.16:55
dtchensebas: i have not16:55
ScottKagateau: I agree Ayatana can do what it wants with it's Ayatana experience.  That's not the same as agreeing that all of Ayatana's design choices are good ones.16:56
seeleagateau: not going anywhere in terms of upstream or default16:56
agateauneversfelde: indeed :)16:56
neversfeldehehe16:56
sebasI think that removing actions programmatically is bound to break, and removing them as patches to apps is broken as well, since it'll divert upstream from downstream (best case) or confuse app developers (worst case)16:56
agateauScottK: ok16:56
seelealthough i'm concerned about this v2 roadmap and the mi turning into something more than just an indicator16:56
sebasBy now, canonical should have found out that it's just a really bad idea16:57
agateausebas: you know I tried to remove them from apps in an upstream-friendly way,16:57
sebaswhich?16:57
agateausebas: adding the necessary api to kdelibs,16:57
agateausebas: but the patch was rejected16:57
ScottKseele: I think much of that stems from the idea of removing the systray icons for the apps using MI, but the systray icons do more than just raise the window (not sure however).16:57
sebasRight, that's the "worst case" part I16:57
sebasm talking about16:57
sebasOffering API to decide what to show has one effect: app developers will need to implement notifications twice16:58
sebaswhich will lead to shit UIs, because they won't, or just forget to check capabilities16:58
agateausebas: you know that even on KDE you are not sure to get your actions?16:58
agateauand that other systems do not support them, or not as completly16:58
sebasThis is API for a large number of developers, it needs to be clear and easy16:58
sebasagateau: yes, I know it's part of the spec even, I just think it's a very broken concept16:59
agateauNot having support for this makes it impossible for example to integrate with mac OS or windows notifications16:59
agateaubecause they have very limited support for actions16:59
agateaulike only one action: clicking the bubble16:59
agateauand you also know that with a proper kde desktop, you can miss your actions?17:00
sebasdtchen: I'll try 2.6.31-rc9 with 190, thanks17:00
agateauif the user disable "notify by popup" and enable "notify by sound", you don't get actions17:00
seeleagateau: your mockup is OK. although I'm not sure what you mean by "Do no handle notifications"17:01
sebasyay for fiber to the home office, btw: 28,678,054  3.10M/s   in 8.9s17:01
seeledo you mean "Disable visual notifications">17:01
agateauseele: right now, it's possible to toggle whether Plasma handles notifications or not,17:02
seeleis that an option available in the KDE config? or can you only do that in a config file?17:03
agateauIt is17:03
agateauif you open the configuration dialog for the system tray,17:03
* sebas << dinner17:03
agateauthe go to "Information"17:03
agateauyou get a set of checkboxes17:03
seeleright, but that should be configuration for any notifications17:04
seelenot just plasma notifications17:04
seelethat configures the content of the notifications17:04
seelethis mockup you sent me configures the visual display of the notifications17:04
agateauthe checkbox does not configure this:17:04
agateauright now, when an app sends a notification, it goes through a binary named knotify4,17:05
agateauwhich can handle all the different notification presentation,17:05
agateau(sound, popup, logfile)...17:05
seeleright17:05
agateauin the case of a popup, knotify4 looks if there is a "popup server" on dbus17:05
seelebut that is configured at the application17:06
agateauand sends notification to it if it's there17:06
agateauthe checkbox means "should plasma presents itself as a popup server"17:06
wstephensonhi, can you update the knetworkmanager packages again?  i have a lot of duplicate BRs for fixed bugs17:06
seelei still dont know what that means17:06
agateauif knotify4 does not find a popup server, it will fallback to its own passive popups17:06
seeleok.. but why do we want users to be able to configure that?17:07
agateau(gray windows, with thin black borders)17:07
seelewe want them to use the plasma popups17:07
agateauseele: i don't think so, but upstream allows such configuration17:07
seeleand i still dont understand which option in the systray config toggles that17:07
agateauoh17:08
agateauI just realized you are probably running kde4.217:08
seelewell i'm also looking at the configuration.png screenshot on your notifications webpage17:08
seeleand i'm runing 4.3.117:09
agateauok, then right click on the (i) in the systray,17:09
agateaugo to "System Tray settings"17:09
agateauthen "Information"17:09
agateauyou should see the checkboxes17:09
agateausimilar to my screenshot but with checkboxes aligned to the right17:10
seeleright17:10
agateau(I reversed the order because it did not fit with my changes)17:10
seelebut doesnt that just toggle visibility of that content? not change it from plasma to knotify visual style?17:10
agateauit will fall back to knotify17:11
agateau(at least it did before KDE notifications changed to use freedesktop spec)17:11
agateaunow it will probably start notification-daemon (a gtk popup server)17:11
agateauor... notify-osd :)17:12
seeleok well that's stupid17:12
agateauso should I just get rid of this third radio button?17:12
seeleyes, the mockup you sent me should only be a configuration for the visual style of the popups17:13
seeleso KDE or Ayatana, and the position selection widget you have for Ayatana is good17:13
seelealso, if it doesnt look too crowded, the contextual "Preview" buttons are good17:13
ScottKagateau: Did you get feedback from Sput or EgS on your quassel patch?  I didn't see it go upstream yet.17:13
seelebut make sure they are disabled if the option is not selected17:13
agateauseele: ok, thanks17:14
agateauScottK: no :/17:14
ScottKOK.  I think we need to get sorted out what they will accept and what not.17:14
agateauScottK: you probably know them better than me17:15
ScottKagateau: You're probably caring more than me.17:15
agateauScottK: :)17:15
agateauScottK: actually didn't sput say on the #quassel channel he would prefer to keep this ubuntu only until libindicate is more widespread?17:16
ScottKagateau: I think he said until after 0.5 is released.17:16
agateauScottK: ok17:17
agateaukid time, have to go17:18
agateauwill check with Sput regarding the status of the indicate patch17:18
allee-k_ScottK: wstephenson had asked for a new knetworkmanager upload (mhmm, plasma-widget-networkmanagement 0.1~svn1017841 was uploaded 3 days ago)17:18
wstephensonallee-k_: ah, that is new enough.  i have 44 dupe bugreports from people using a 2-week-old version17:19
wstephensonbut you should update the package version number, it's been 0.9 for months now17:19
ScottKok17:20
ScottKNightrose: Did you get your knetworkmanager problem solved?17:20
wstephensontell your package checkin guardians that it was just a mistake, the code has been 0.9 level since 1010000 or so17:20
ScottKwstephenson: We did have some complaints of regressions.  I do not, unfortunately, have details.17:20
ScottKOK.17:20
NightroseScottK: nope :(17:21
ScottKwstephenson: Is there any point in updating past what we have now?17:21
Nightroseno time to fiddle with it17:21
wstephensonScottK: i had some reports too. 2/3 of them are fixed by the latest code, and i am working on the other fix now.17:21
wstephensonNightrose: what kind of problem?17:21
ScottKwstephenson: Would you please ping me when you have the fix committed?  I'll try and update ours.17:21
Nightrosewstephenson: can't connect to hidden netwok since update17:22
Nightrosewep17:22
wstephensonScottK: roger17:22
wstephensonNightrose: hmm, hidden network support was the focus of my last commits (a week ago friday)17:22
Nightrosewstephenson: it worked before the last update17:22
wstephensonNightrose: svn or deb update?17:22
Nightrosenow i don't have wifi here at fregl's place ;-)17:23
Nightrosedeb17:23
allee-k_wstephenson: only problem I remeber is that sometimes I get wlan + eth0 with assigned IP.  I've fixed it with turning off wireless or unplug the cable17:23
wstephensonallee-k_: you mean both interfaces are active at the same time?17:23
allee-k_wstephenson: yes.17:23
wstephensonallee-k_: that's performing correct with regards to spec :)17:24
Nightrosewstephenson: if i get a fixed package until say tomorrow morning i can test - then i'll have to go home again where i have no wifi to test17:24
wstephensonNightrose: i guess you have the package allee-k_ mentioned above?17:25
Nightrosei think so17:25
allee-k_wstephenson: but route does not like this part of the spec ;)  And 0.5 ages ago refused to fullfill the spec too ;)17:25
wstephensonallee-k_: NM only assigns default route to one interface. perhaps you have a static networking setup in /etc/network/interfaces that conflicts with NM?17:26
allee-k_wstephenson: nevertheless a bit THANK YOU for your nm frontend work !!!!!17:26
wstephensonallee-k_: yw.  asac is the guy to go to about ubuntu NM integration though17:27
allee-k_wstephenson: no only auto lo in interfaces file.17:28
wstephensonallee-k_: how is your routing broken then?17:29
allee-k_wstephenson: hug asac in my name when you meet him17:29
wstephensonallee-k_: will do.  if you have some interesting manual routing requirements for your network then open a bko bug to support providing routing table entries in knm4.  otherwise if it breaks with 2 dhcp setups active, either your dhcp is broken or there is a problem in the ubuntu NM integration, tell asac in #nm about that please.17:34
* wstephenson is away home17:34
allee-k_wstephenson: I would have to check/retry.  Only thing I know was that http, ssh, i.e. tcp was dead and as soon as I unplugged/switched of one interface internet worked again (I assumed the 2 different IPs confused)17:34
wstephensonallee-k_: NM assigns the default route according to some fixed rules17:34
allee-k_wstephenson: no special reuirement.  At home and work, I get IPs via dhcp and eth and wlan are in the same subnet17:35
wstephensonso if you bring up an ssh connection after wlan0 comes up, then eth0 comes up after that, eth0 gets the default route and your ssh session is broken.  that's NM's problem17:35
wstephensonanyway, gotta go.17:36
=== wstephenson is now known as _wstephenson
=== _wstephenson is now known as wstephenson
=== wstephenson is now known as _wstephenson
Nightrosewstephenson: ScottK: actually thinking about it it might have broken before and i just didn't test it with hidden networks...17:37
ScottKOK.17:37
Nightrosei havn't been using this network for 3 or 4 weeks17:38
Nightrosehmmm or not17:41
ScottKa|wen: The CMake check in kopete-facebook is checking for module 'QJson>=0.5'.  If 0.6 is really required, please let upstream know they need to check for it.17:54
ScottKa|wen: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.17:57
shtylmanseele: can you take a look at the kubuntu slides?18:22
declanmgLooking to package a very simple Qt Ruby app for Kubuntu. Any pointers to useful articles? I heard that Ruby apps are a bit tricky package.20:45
smarterdeclanmg: you could look at apturl-kde, it uses the KDE Ruby bindings(Korondum)20:52
ghostcubewb :)21:05
seeleshtylman: kubuntu slides for what?22:13
Monika|Kmaybe the slideshow that appears during the installation process, where there is only an Ubuntu one now22:17
ScottKYes.  That's the one.22:17
a|wenScottK: they have already fixed the cmake check to qjson>=0.6 in their VCS22:41
a|wenand thanks!22:41
ScottKOK.  Good to know.22:42
ScottKNCommander: Nevermind on armel build fixes.  sebas helped me out.23:03

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