[00:01] <a|wen> Riddell: I've prepared an update for the kopete-facebook plugin fixing the "crash-on-exit" bug (and hopefully also the other crasher-bugs as they have somewhat similar backtraces)... http://awen.dk/packages/kopete-facebook/
[00:03] <ryanakca> nixternal: lp:~kubuntu-website/kubuntu-website/kubuntu-theme-v2 has the theming... page.tpl.php ... It's for Drupal 5.13 ...
[00:14] <nixternal> groovy, thanks ryanakca
[01:35] <JontheEchinda> hrrrrMMMmm: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Oxygen-Molecule+KDE+%26+GTK%2B+unified+theme?content=103741
[01:36]  * JontheEchinda considers another FFE :P
[02:44] <ScottK> a|wen: The ooo-thumbnailer for KDE is in.
[02:44] <a|wen> ScottK: thx a lot!
[02:44] <ScottK> a|wen: No problem.  It was an easy package to review.
[02:45] <a|wen> indeed a nice small package for once
[04:34] <shtylman> ryanakca: you got any screenshots of your kubuntu site work?
[04:38] <jjesse> ryanakca did nixternal ever get back to you in regards to help.kubuntu.org?
[04:48] <nixternal> jjesse: it is on my TODO list
[04:54] <jjesse> nixternal it better be :)  iwanted it out for jaunty :)
[04:54] <nixternal> ya, that was impossible
[04:54] <nixternal> our docs currently suck to turn into a web help system
[04:54] <jjesse> yeah i know that
[04:55] <jjesse> got my netbook reloaded so i'm good to start hacking again :)
[05:57] <jussi01> Hey Riddell, when you wake up, did you report that bug about open office icons? I didnt get round to it as ubuntu-bug was crashing - if you didnt do it yet Ill do it soon.
[06:00] <JontheEchinda> [14:12:03] * Riddell away until thursday
[06:00] <JontheEchinda> on that note, it is 1 am and I should get to bed
[06:08] <jussi01> JontheEchinda: oh... thanks :)
[07:36] <nixternal> man, I hope they do something with the images/icons used in the slide show for the ubuntu installer...those images are horrid looking
[07:36]  * nixternal notes people said something about "KDE 3 looks to cartoonish for me"
[07:37] <nixternal> look at the pidgin image....holy shit that would scare me into stopping the install :p
[08:09]  * jussi01 hugs nixternal
[09:51] <ghostcube> morning
[09:51] <a|wen> morning ghostcube
[09:51]  * ghostcube getting some coffee 
[09:51] <ghostcube> :D
[09:52] <a|wen> any core-dev around? I've prepared an update for the kopete-facebook plugin (new upstream release) fixing the "crash-on-exit" bug (and hopefully also the other crasher-bugs as they have somewhat similar backtraces)... http://awen.dk/packages/kopete-facebook/
[10:26] <neversfelde> bug #411020 needs a sponsor
[11:56] <a|wen> neversfelde: plasma-widget-stasks uploaded
[11:57] <neversfelde> a|wen: thanks
[12:04] <ghostcube> btw what is meant by needs a sponsor ?
[12:04] <ghostcube> webspace ?
[12:05] <ghostcube> or someone building it in its ppa
[12:05] <neversfelde> ghostcube: someone who has the right to upload to ubuntu
[12:05] <neversfelde> in this case a MOTU
[12:06] <ghostcube> ahhh
[12:06] <ghostcube> thx neversfelde
[12:06] <ghostcube> cause if it meant webspace i had offered some
[12:07] <ghostcube> :)
[12:09] <neversfelde> enough webspace here >:)
[12:14] <ghostcube> hö
[12:14] <ghostcube> hö
[13:16] <JontheEchinda> !grub | JontheEchinda
[13:33] <Nightrose> i'm no longer able to connect to hidden networks after an upgrade
[13:33] <Nightrose> worked before
[13:34] <Nightrose> how can i go back to a previous version of knetworkmanager (?)
[13:35] <ghostcube> apt-pining
[13:35] <ghostcube> or how its called
[13:35] <ghostcube> you can say what version to install
[13:35] <ghostcube> but i forgotten how it works in detail
[13:42] <neversfelde> http://wiki.kubuntu-de.org/Konfiguration/Programme_installieren/Paketmanagement/apt
[13:42] <neversfelde> german only
[13:59] <ScottK> a|wen: qjson is uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[13:59] <ScottK> That'll need to get published before kopete-facebook can go.
[14:04] <ghostcube> neversfelde: hmm i must bookmark the kubuntu wiki ... looks good
[14:04] <ghostcube> :)
[14:06] <neversfelde> :) needs much more work
[14:09] <ScottK> NCommander: Would you please look at kdeplasma-addons FTBFS on armel?  It's the only thing we lack to have a complete armel Live CD.
[14:58] <a|wen> ScottK: thx ... sure. kopete-facebook needs the new qjson to build
[16:10] <shtylman> can someone take a look at the slides/kubuntu folder in: lp:~shtylman/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/kubuntu-slideshow  ... and add something to the konqueror page? as well as review the other text... the sooner the better :)
[16:31] <agateau> Seems the discussion is slowing on Ayatana notifications,
[16:32] <agateau> anyone of you did try it?
[16:33] <agateau> Riddell: ScottK: seele: sebas: ^
[16:33] <a|wen> agateau: the message notification thingy interacting with kopete/kmail atm?
[16:34] <sebas> agateau: sorry, I'm totally swamped these days ... work/work, some tokamakstuff to wrap up and interesting code to write myself
[16:34] <sebas> I hope the code review was useful for you
[16:34] <agateau> a|wen: no, ayatana notifications
[16:34] <neversfelde> agateau: what exactly needs testing?
[16:35] <agateau> http://people.canonical.com/~agateau/plasma-ayatana-notifications/index.html
[16:35] <agateau> neversfelde: a|wen ^
[16:35] <agateau> sebas: it was, but I am still not sure porting to QGraphicsWidget would bring anything
[16:36] <agateau> sebas: I also realize my first screenshot did not show the notifications were above windows,
[16:36] <agateau> which may change your interpretation of them
[16:39] <a|wen> oh, looks cool enough ... need to test that out
[16:39] <neversfelde> ok, now I need a notification :)
[16:40] <sebas> agateau: the QWidget / vs QGV thing is not so important right now (though doing it will allow you with Qt 4.6 to use QGraphicsEffect, a new effect API)
[16:40] <sebas> for top-level widgets it isn't so useful right now
[16:40] <agateau> sebas: ok
[16:41] <sebas> But by all means, get this thing sorted with aseigo first
[16:41] <sebas> I've only done a shallow technical review, I'm not up to speed about integration issues with xdg and stuff
[16:41] <sebas> other than "I'd hate to see patches removing actions and I don't think automatically stripping actions or HTML from the notifications will produce good results"
[16:42] <agateau> sebas: is this your voice or aaron?
[16:42]  * a|wen thinks his KDE needs a restart after last update ... i'm loosing icons fast; and configuration dialogs gives strange warnings
[16:43] <agateau> because I am afraid I won't go anywhere showing this to aaron
[16:43] <sebas> my ignorant opinion
[16:43] <sebas> the review was mine
[16:43] <agateau> he will just say what you just said about actions and won't bother looking at the techy parts
[16:43] <sebas> Well, the actions part is pretty clear
[16:43] <sebas> nobody except Canonical thinks it's a good idea
[16:44] <sebas> xfce, gnome, kde, ...
[16:44] <agateau> note that I originally did not remove actions
[16:44] <sebas> To me this looks very much like a dead end
[16:44] <neversfelde> agateau: I got a message via kopete, it was shown a notification, but only for the first message, the second was not shown and the plasma-desktop crashed
[16:45] <agateau> neversfelde: ouch
[16:45] <agateau> do you have the backtrace?
[16:45] <sebas> one thing that needs to be sorted here is where the sweet spot is between Ayatana and Plasma, since design ideas are partly overlapping and don't match
[16:45] <sebas> like the exact margining and stuff (I think you fixed that already)
[16:45] <neversfelde> ah, quassel works :)
[16:45] <neversfelde> http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/36
[16:45] <agateau> sebas: yes, I removed quite a few hardcoded margins
[16:45] <sebas> And the simple fact the the panel and notification area in KDE is in a different place than in GNOME
[16:46] <sebas> good :)
[16:46] <neversfelde> and kmail, too
[16:46] <agateau> sebas: I want to make it possible to configure the position of the notification on the desktop
[16:46] <sebas> I'm also a bit disappointed that the first thing to show is a complete reimplementation, not a gradual improvement of the current plasma notifications
[16:46] <sebas> which would make way more sense to me
[16:47] <sebas> would also politically be smart to first tackle the parts that are common ground
[16:47] <agateau> sebas: I would not call this a complete reimplementation... lots of code is kept in common
[16:48] <agateau> much more than my previous separate-binary version
[16:48] <sebas> well, it doesn't improve the current notifications in PLasma at all
[16:48] <sebas> it's a separate running app, doesn't tie in with teh system tray (neither new spec nor implementation in Plasma)
[16:48] <agateau> it's not a separate running app
[16:48] <sebas> even if it uses Plasma::Theme, it's pretty useless for us and from PLasma POV it's simply duplicating work
[16:48] <agateau> where did you read this?
[16:49] <sebas> well, widget-thingie
[16:49] <sebas> it works around plasma, rather than integrated into
[16:50] <agateau> it's a patch against the systemtray applet
[16:50] <agateau> how can this be "not integrated"?
[16:50] <agateau> it's as much integrated as Plasma Tooltips are integrated into Plasma
[16:50] <neversfelde> ok, second time testing it with kopete, there was no crash, probably coincidence
[16:51] <agateau> neversfelde: I am afraid the crash may have to do with message indicator, not the ayatana notificiatinos
[16:51] <sebas> agateau: well, it supplies a completely different widget to do the same as the current notifications
[16:51] <agateau> sebas: true
[16:51] <sebas> But yeah, I don't really feel like fixing technical things that are so much in the air right now
[16:51] <agateau> I would have happily reused the Tooltip widget, if it were public
[16:51] <neversfelde> agateau: maybe, I removed it for the second test
[16:51] <sebas> I'd rather work on code myself tbh, this political thing costs me too much of my energy
[16:52] <sebas> agateau: maybe it makes sense to make it public then
[16:52] <agateau> I think one really need to use it for one day or two, to make an opinion on it
[16:52] <sebas> (just a guess)
[16:52] <agateau> could be nice
[16:53] <sebas> yeah, that costs time, and Plasma is for me very much a spare time thing right now
[16:54] <agateau> if you are running Karmic, you can use the binary I uploaded
[16:54] <sebas> And as I said, I don't want to invest what from upstream POV very much looks like a dead horse
[16:54] <agateau> I understand this, I just believe it needs to be experienced before being rejected
[16:54] <sebas> does anyone know if you can compile the nvidia brinary driver with a current 2.6.31 kernel?
[16:55] <ScottK> agateau: From my perspective until Ayatana moves off of the 'No actions' approach, it's not going anywhere.
[16:55] <dtchen> sebas: yes, you can compile 185.18.36
[16:55] <sebas> dtchen: ah, tried 190 as well?
[16:55] <agateau> ScottK: you agreed with seele to remove them as par of the experience!
[16:55] <neversfelde> I am not sure about these "lighter notifications", but for now, I like them :). They shouldn't be on top, but I guess this was discussed before.
[16:55] <dtchen> sebas: i have not
[16:56] <ScottK> agateau: I agree Ayatana can do what it wants with it's Ayatana experience.  That's not the same as agreeing that all of Ayatana's design choices are good ones.
[16:56] <seele> agateau: not going anywhere in terms of upstream or default
[16:56] <agateau> neversfelde: indeed :)
[16:56] <neversfelde> hehe
[16:56] <sebas> I think that removing actions programmatically is bound to break, and removing them as patches to apps is broken as well, since it'll divert upstream from downstream (best case) or confuse app developers (worst case)
[16:56] <agateau> ScottK: ok
[16:56] <seele> although i'm concerned about this v2 roadmap and the mi turning into something more than just an indicator
[16:57] <sebas> By now, canonical should have found out that it's just a really bad idea
[16:57] <agateau> sebas: you know I tried to remove them from apps in an upstream-friendly way,
[16:57] <sebas> which?
[16:57] <agateau> sebas: adding the necessary api to kdelibs,
[16:57] <agateau> sebas: but the patch was rejected
[16:57] <ScottK> seele: I think much of that stems from the idea of removing the systray icons for the apps using MI, but the systray icons do more than just raise the window (not sure however).
[16:57] <sebas> Right, that's the "worst case" part I
[16:57] <sebas> m talking about
[16:58] <sebas> Offering API to decide what to show has one effect: app developers will need to implement notifications twice
[16:58] <sebas> which will lead to shit UIs, because they won't, or just forget to check capabilities
[16:58] <agateau> sebas: you know that even on KDE you are not sure to get your actions?
[16:58] <agateau> and that other systems do not support them, or not as completly
[16:58] <sebas> This is API for a large number of developers, it needs to be clear and easy
[16:59] <sebas> agateau: yes, I know it's part of the spec even, I just think it's a very broken concept
[16:59] <agateau> Not having support for this makes it impossible for example to integrate with mac OS or windows notifications
[16:59] <agateau> because they have very limited support for actions
[16:59] <agateau> like only one action: clicking the bubble
[17:00] <agateau> and you also know that with a proper kde desktop, you can miss your actions?
[17:00] <sebas> dtchen: I'll try 2.6.31-rc9 with 190, thanks
[17:00] <agateau> if the user disable "notify by popup" and enable "notify by sound", you don't get actions
[17:01] <seele> agateau: your mockup is OK. although I'm not sure what you mean by "Do no handle notifications"
[17:01] <sebas> yay for fiber to the home office, btw: 28,678,054  3.10M/s   in 8.9s
[17:01] <seele> do you mean "Disable visual notifications">
[17:02] <agateau> seele: right now, it's possible to toggle whether Plasma handles notifications or not,
[17:03] <seele> is that an option available in the KDE config? or can you only do that in a config file?
[17:03] <agateau> It is
[17:03] <agateau> if you open the configuration dialog for the system tray,
[17:03]  * sebas << dinner
[17:03] <agateau> the go to "Information"
[17:03] <agateau> you get a set of checkboxes
[17:04] <seele> right, but that should be configuration for any notifications
[17:04] <seele> not just plasma notifications
[17:04] <seele> that configures the content of the notifications
[17:04] <seele> this mockup you sent me configures the visual display of the notifications
[17:04] <agateau> the checkbox does not configure this:
[17:05] <agateau> right now, when an app sends a notification, it goes through a binary named knotify4,
[17:05] <agateau> which can handle all the different notification presentation,
[17:05] <agateau> (sound, popup, logfile)...
[17:05] <seele> right
[17:05] <agateau> in the case of a popup, knotify4 looks if there is a "popup server" on dbus
[17:06] <seele> but that is configured at the application
[17:06] <agateau> and sends notification to it if it's there
[17:06] <agateau> the checkbox means "should plasma presents itself as a popup server"
[17:06] <wstephenson> hi, can you update the knetworkmanager packages again?  i have a lot of duplicate BRs for fixed bugs
[17:06] <seele> i still dont know what that means
[17:06] <agateau> if knotify4 does not find a popup server, it will fallback to its own passive popups
[17:07] <seele> ok.. but why do we want users to be able to configure that?
[17:07] <agateau> (gray windows, with thin black borders)
[17:07] <seele> we want them to use the plasma popups
[17:07] <agateau> seele: i don't think so, but upstream allows such configuration
[17:07] <seele> and i still dont understand which option in the systray config toggles that
[17:08] <agateau> oh
[17:08] <agateau> I just realized you are probably running kde4.2
[17:08] <seele> well i'm also looking at the configuration.png screenshot on your notifications webpage
[17:09] <seele> and i'm runing 4.3.1
[17:09] <agateau> ok, then right click on the (i) in the systray,
[17:09] <agateau> go to "System Tray settings"
[17:09] <agateau> then "Information"
[17:09] <agateau> you should see the checkboxes
[17:10] <agateau> similar to my screenshot but with checkboxes aligned to the right
[17:10] <seele> right
[17:10] <agateau> (I reversed the order because it did not fit with my changes)
[17:10] <seele> but doesnt that just toggle visibility of that content? not change it from plasma to knotify visual style?
[17:11] <agateau> it will fall back to knotify
[17:11] <agateau> (at least it did before KDE notifications changed to use freedesktop spec)
[17:11] <agateau> now it will probably start notification-daemon (a gtk popup server)
[17:12] <agateau> or... notify-osd :)
[17:12] <seele> ok well that's stupid
[17:12] <agateau> so should I just get rid of this third radio button?
[17:13] <seele> yes, the mockup you sent me should only be a configuration for the visual style of the popups
[17:13] <seele> so KDE or Ayatana, and the position selection widget you have for Ayatana is good
[17:13] <seele> also, if it doesnt look too crowded, the contextual "Preview" buttons are good
[17:13] <ScottK> agateau: Did you get feedback from Sput or EgS on your quassel patch?  I didn't see it go upstream yet.
[17:13] <seele> but make sure they are disabled if the option is not selected
[17:14] <agateau> seele: ok, thanks
[17:14] <agateau> ScottK: no :/
[17:14] <ScottK> OK.  I think we need to get sorted out what they will accept and what not.
[17:15] <agateau> ScottK: you probably know them better than me
[17:15] <ScottK> agateau: You're probably caring more than me.
[17:15] <agateau> ScottK: :)
[17:16] <agateau> ScottK: actually didn't sput say on the #quassel channel he would prefer to keep this ubuntu only until libindicate is more widespread?
[17:16] <ScottK> agateau: I think he said until after 0.5 is released.
[17:17] <agateau> ScottK: ok
[17:18] <agateau> kid time, have to go
[17:18] <agateau> will check with Sput regarding the status of the indicate patch
[17:18] <allee-k_> ScottK: wstephenson had asked for a new knetworkmanager upload (mhmm, plasma-widget-networkmanagement 0.1~svn1017841 was uploaded 3 days ago)
[17:19] <wstephenson> allee-k_: ah, that is new enough.  i have 44 dupe bugreports from people using a 2-week-old version
[17:19] <wstephenson> but you should update the package version number, it's been 0.9 for months now
[17:20] <ScottK> ok
[17:20] <ScottK> Nightrose: Did you get your knetworkmanager problem solved?
[17:20] <wstephenson> tell your package checkin guardians that it was just a mistake, the code has been 0.9 level since 1010000 or so
[17:20] <ScottK> wstephenson: We did have some complaints of regressions.  I do not, unfortunately, have details.
[17:20] <ScottK> OK.
[17:21] <Nightrose> ScottK: nope :(
[17:21] <ScottK> wstephenson: Is there any point in updating past what we have now?
[17:21] <Nightrose> no time to fiddle with it
[17:21] <wstephenson> ScottK: i had some reports too. 2/3 of them are fixed by the latest code, and i am working on the other fix now.
[17:21] <wstephenson> Nightrose: what kind of problem?
[17:21] <ScottK> wstephenson: Would you please ping me when you have the fix committed?  I'll try and update ours.
[17:22] <Nightrose> wstephenson: can't connect to hidden netwok since update
[17:22] <Nightrose> wep
[17:22] <wstephenson> ScottK: roger
[17:22] <wstephenson> Nightrose: hmm, hidden network support was the focus of my last commits (a week ago friday)
[17:22] <Nightrose> wstephenson: it worked before the last update
[17:22] <wstephenson> Nightrose: svn or deb update?
[17:23] <Nightrose> now i don't have wifi here at fregl's place ;-)
[17:23] <Nightrose> deb
[17:23] <allee-k_> wstephenson: only problem I remeber is that sometimes I get wlan + eth0 with assigned IP.  I've fixed it with turning off wireless or unplug the cable
[17:23] <wstephenson> allee-k_: you mean both interfaces are active at the same time?
[17:23] <allee-k_> wstephenson: yes.
[17:24] <wstephenson> allee-k_: that's performing correct with regards to spec :)
[17:24] <Nightrose> wstephenson: if i get a fixed package until say tomorrow morning i can test - then i'll have to go home again where i have no wifi to test
[17:25] <wstephenson> Nightrose: i guess you have the package allee-k_ mentioned above?
[17:25] <Nightrose> i think so
[17:25] <allee-k_> wstephenson: but route does not like this part of the spec ;)  And 0.5 ages ago refused to fullfill the spec too ;)
[17:26] <wstephenson> allee-k_: NM only assigns default route to one interface. perhaps you have a static networking setup in /etc/network/interfaces that conflicts with NM?
[17:26] <allee-k_> wstephenson: nevertheless a bit THANK YOU for your nm frontend work !!!!!
[17:27] <wstephenson> allee-k_: yw.  asac is the guy to go to about ubuntu NM integration though
[17:28] <allee-k_> wstephenson: no only auto lo in interfaces file.
[17:29] <wstephenson> allee-k_: how is your routing broken then?
[17:29] <allee-k_> wstephenson: hug asac in my name when you meet him
[17:34] <wstephenson> allee-k_: will do.  if you have some interesting manual routing requirements for your network then open a bko bug to support providing routing table entries in knm4.  otherwise if it breaks with 2 dhcp setups active, either your dhcp is broken or there is a problem in the ubuntu NM integration, tell asac in #nm about that please.
[17:34]  * wstephenson is away home
[17:34] <allee-k_> wstephenson: I would have to check/retry.  Only thing I know was that http, ssh, i.e. tcp was dead and as soon as I unplugged/switched of one interface internet worked again (I assumed the 2 different IPs confused)
[17:34] <wstephenson> allee-k_: NM assigns the default route according to some fixed rules
[17:35] <allee-k_> wstephenson: no special reuirement.  At home and work, I get IPs via dhcp and eth and wlan are in the same subnet
[17:35] <wstephenson> so if you bring up an ssh connection after wlan0 comes up, then eth0 comes up after that, eth0 gets the default route and your ssh session is broken.  that's NM's problem
[17:36] <wstephenson> anyway, gotta go.
[17:37] <Nightrose> wstephenson: ScottK: actually thinking about it it might have broken before and i just didn't test it with hidden networks...
[17:37] <ScottK> OK.
[17:38] <Nightrose> i havn't been using this network for 3 or 4 weeks
[17:41] <Nightrose> hmmm or not
[17:54] <ScottK> a|wen: The CMake check in kopete-facebook is checking for module 'QJson>=0.5'.  If 0.6 is really required, please let upstream know they need to check for it.
[17:57] <ScottK> a|wen: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[18:22] <shtylman> seele: can you take a look at the kubuntu slides?
[20:45] <declanmg> Looking to package a very simple Qt Ruby app for Kubuntu. Any pointers to useful articles? I heard that Ruby apps are a bit tricky package.
[20:52] <smarter> declanmg: you could look at apturl-kde, it uses the KDE Ruby bindings(Korondum)
[21:05] <ghostcube> wb :)
[22:13] <seele> shtylman: kubuntu slides for what?
[22:17] <Monika|K> maybe the slideshow that appears during the installation process, where there is only an Ubuntu one now
[22:17] <ScottK> Yes.  That's the one.
[22:41] <a|wen> ScottK: they have already fixed the cmake check to qjson>=0.6 in their VCS
[22:41] <a|wen> and thanks!
[22:42] <ScottK> OK.  Good to know.
[23:03] <ScottK> NCommander: Nevermind on armel build fixes.  sebas helped me out.