[02:18] <ace_suares> LaserJock:
[02:20] <LaserJock> hi ace_suares
[02:36] <ace_suares> just saying hi
[04:37] <dgroos> I'm adding groups in jaunty server and I looked at the /etc/group file and I'm wondering why most groups have an "x" as the second value and the groups I just added have an "*" as the second value.  Anyone know?
[04:54] <dgroos> For example, a line in the /etc/group file looks like this:
[04:54] <dgroos> staff:x:50:
[04:54] <dgroos> I know that "staff" is the name of the group,
[04:54] <dgroos> "50" is the Gid
[04:54] <dgroos> but what does the "x" represent?
[04:57] <sbalneav> Nothing
[04:57] <dgroos> as in "empty"?
[04:57] <sbalneav> Nominally, it's a password field for if you wanted passwords for group changes.
[04:57] <sbalneav> But that's more historical than anything else.
[04:58] <dgroos> hmmm... so if instead of an "x" it has an asterisk then that might be KUser's way of doing the same thing?
[04:58] <sbalneav> right.
[04:59] <sbalneav> There's no "set standard" of what placeholder character could go there
[04:59] <sbalneav> it's just ignored.
[04:59] <sbalneav> man 5 group
[04:59] <dgroos> Thanks!!!
[05:00] <stgraber> sbalneav: hey, Scotty, did you see that we'll have Ollie at the hackfest ?
[05:00] <sbalneav> No, I didn't, but that's awesome news!
[05:00] <stgraber> yup
[05:00] <sbalneav> I'm looking forward to seeing all my pals again :)
[05:00] <dgroos> BTW  sbalneav, I just dropped my daughter at Tache hall--nice place :)
[05:01] <sbalneav> Ah, took a look around the campus, did you?
[05:01] <sbalneav> Nice place.  The admin building in the centre's quite nice to wander about in.
[05:01] <dgroos> Indeed,nice place
[05:02] <sbalneav> Sorry about the mosquitoes.  The sudden spat of warm weather's brought them out in force :(
[05:02] <dgroos> I didn't have time to go much inside buildings, but it has a friendly, community feel to the campus.
[05:02] <sbalneav> It wasn't a pleasent weekend at the cottage.
[05:02] <dgroos> they were crazy!!!  reminded me of canoeing in the Quetico in the spring
[05:03] <sbalneav> The mosquito's the provincial bird of manitoba :)
[05:04] <dgroos> We sometimes say the same in Minnesota :)
[05:04]  * stgraber suddenly knows where he's not going to be on holiday :)
[05:24] <dgroos> I'm making a csv file to batch add users to the server.  One of the fields to add is the groups to add the user to.
[05:25] <alkisg> dgroos: heh, I'm making a python script to batch import users from a csv file these days. Nice coincidence :)
[05:25] <dgroos> I've added the users to these groups, sound right?: audio, dip, video, sambashare.
[05:26] <dgroos> alkisg: good evening/morning :)
[05:26] <alkisg> Hello
[05:27] <dgroos> It does seem like this is a pretty basic need in education.
[05:27] <alkisg> The default groups are there: `grep group /etc/gnome-system-tools/users/profiles`
[05:27] <dgroos> Thanks, I'll check it out.  When does your school year commence?
[05:28] <alkisg> School year is Sep => Jun, then 2 months of vacations.
[05:28] <dgroos> interesting--same schedule here in US.
[05:30] <dgroos> I skipped a few of these groups such as floppy, tape, cdrom as we don't have these on the thin clients
[05:32] <dgroos> it also includes, adm and lpadmin which sound like admin groups--is this correct?
[05:32] <alkisg> The first line, groups=cdrom,floppy,dialout,tape,dip,adm,plugdev,fax,fuse,video, is for "desktop users"
[05:33] <alkisg> The second line is for "admins"
[05:33] <dgroos> que vale el que sabe :)
[05:33] <alkisg> Δεν κατάλαβα γρι :)
[05:33]  * alkisg google-translates.... :D
[05:34] <dgroos> (that's greek to me :)
[05:34] <alkisg> Ah, google says that you said "worth who knows"... heh
[05:35]  * alkisg just said that he didn't understand what you wrote
[05:35] <dgroos> and google said you said, "I did not understand purse".
[05:36] <dgroos> Purse?
[05:36] <alkisg> Heh ... nah, it doesn't know the word "γρι", it isn't really a formal word
[05:36] <dgroos> I used google translate quite a bit with the file you sent me on customizing the firefox about:config file--it was great.
[05:37] <alkisg> Did you manage to make an english version out of it? I think it would be nice to have it in the edubuntu wiki...
[05:38] <dgroos> pretty much.  I'll pastebin a copy of what I've got, can you check to see that I didn't do something really weird?
[05:39] <alkisg> Uh, can we leave it for some other time? I'm in a hurry to go to work
[05:39] <dgroos> que vale el que sabe means something like, 'he who knows is very valuable'
[05:39] <alkisg> Nice :) Google is the most valuable thing :)
[05:39] <dgroos> For sure, and I to go to bed... :)
[05:39] <alkisg> OK, good night, cu tomorrow
[05:40] <dgroos> have a great day!
[05:40] <alkisg> Thanks :)
[05:42] <sbalneav> alkisg: So, I've been digginging into the whole lack of putXXent() problem in glibc
[05:42] <alkisg> Oooo nice :) Any news?
[05:43] <sbalneav> What, as in solving it?
[05:43] <alkisg> Or, as in putting the solution in a timeframe or at least in a people-frame :P
[05:43] <sbalneav> Hell, that'll take years :)  I'm suspecting the problem goes all the way to the posix(1) standard.
[05:44] <sbalneav> However, from a TECHNICAL standpoint, I think it's quite doable.
[05:44] <alkisg> damn beurocracy (I can't even spell it right :))
[05:45] <sbalneav> I'm coding up an "example" ldap_putpwent() function that we can do an LD_LIBRARY_PATH= in front of something that calls putpwent.
[05:45] <sbalneav> It seems so... unorthagonal that we can have nss funtion for the getXXent operations, but not the put.
[05:46] <sbalneav> This will be.... a long term project.
[05:46] <sbalneav> But for instance: your script...
[05:47] <sbalneav> You just want to bulk add users.  It's a simple thing that's been implemented about 1*10^60 times.
[05:47] <alkisg> (right... even though I can't find anything on google that fits my needs :( :))
[05:47] <sbalneav> Oh, wait, now you want to use LDAP at your location: ok, change the script, become an expert in LDAP
[05:48] <sbalneav> Oh, now the school wants to use Postgres or Radius as an auth mechanism: change it again
[05:48] <sbalneav> and again
[05:48] <sbalneav> and again.
[05:48] <alkisg> I understand what you're saying. It would be *most* simple to use putpwent() and some ldap configuration script to specify its behavior...
[05:48] <sbalneav> why>
[05:48] <sbalneav> Well, that part should be INVISIBLE to you...
[05:49] <alkisg> Except for the configuration file, which the admin would be able to edit, right?
[05:49] <sbalneav> if you set up your NSS stuff correctly, why should you CARE about the internals of where things are stored?
[05:49] <sbalneav> alkisg: sure, but do it ONCE, rather than have to worry about it for...
[05:49] <sbalneav> the gui user add tool
[05:49] <alkisg> Yup, I get it.
[05:49] <sbalneav> the command line add too
[05:50] <sbalneav> the bulk add tool, ad nauseum
[05:50] <alkisg> They should all respect that line of thought, I agree. What I can't understand is how these things work in Gnu/Linux - i.e. you find a "correct way to do things", you implement it, then what?
[05:51] <alkisg> Who will "approve" your implementation? The distro managers? The users?
[05:51] <sbalneav> Well, depends.
[05:51] <sbalneav> If it's something like this that may affect posix compliance:
[05:51] <sbalneav> first step would be to ensure that it doesn't.
[05:52] <sbalneav> if it does, it's a non-starter: glibc maintainers won't break posix compliance, no matter how "justified" the reason may be.
[05:52] <sbalneav> So, at that point, I'd have to make an application to the posix committee to change it.
[05:53] <sbalneav> If it's NOT a compliance issue,
[05:53] <sbalneav> then hit the upstream glibc maintainers with patches.
[05:53] <sbalneav> Usually, after talking about it with them first.
[05:53] <alkisg> That sounds difficult to get accepted... but not undoable
[05:54] <sbalneav> Distros are the LAST place to make changes like this, since they're just wanting to package upstream's goodies.
[05:54]  * sbalneav shrugs.
[05:54] <sbalneav> It's a process
[05:54] <sbalneav> You follow it, and see where it leads.
[05:54] <sbalneav> First is to do some proof-of-concept code, which I'm working on now.
[05:55] <alkisg> Yeah, but giving away your free time to write patches and then get a "no, we won't accept it" is really tiring :(
[05:55] <sbalneav> Been there
[05:55] <sbalneav> done that
[05:55] <sbalneav> Still doing it :)
[05:55] <sbalneav> One thing you learn is persistence :)
[05:55] <alkisg> ...and we thank you for it :)
[05:56] <sbalneav> Ahhh, I wouldn't make a very good Don Quixote if I didn't have a windmill to tilt at. :)
[05:56] <alkisg> Ouch, it's the first time I'm reading Don Quixote's name in English, I almost didn't understand it! :)
[05:58] <sbalneav> Heh, we jokingly call him "Quick-oats" here in Canada :)
[05:59]  * alkisg has to get to work... be back in ~1 hour (I like the easy-going first school days that are spent python-hacking....)
[06:00] <sbalneav> Okie, off to bed for me.
[06:00] <sbalneav> Night.
[06:00] <alkisg> Good night sbalneav, bye all :)
[07:10] <alkisg> Good morning
[07:20] <nubae|work> morning alkisg
[14:52] <sbalneav> Morning all
[18:33] <tubmangray_> Need help in setting up a new Edubunta LAb
[18:34] <alkisg> tubmangray_: anything specific?
[18:34] <tubmangray_> Is there someone or a resource that can walk me through it (new user!), thanks
[18:34] <tubmangray_> I need the basic network topology, software best for server, and for client users.
[18:35] <alkisg> Is that a normal edubuntu lab, or does it involve ltsp?
[18:35] <tubmangray_> I was hoping to use ltsp, as the client computers are mostly Pent3, and some 4s, server is a P4
[18:36] <alkisg> The edubuntu handbook was what you needed once... unfortunately, it's been a long time since it was last updated
[18:36] <tubmangray_> To serve a school in remote Liberia.  Headed there in a few weeks, and hoping to set up this in my house before packing it up to take with us.
[18:36] <alkisg> You can find some ltsp info in http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
[18:37] <tubmangray_> thanks.
[18:39] <tubmangray_> Do you know if Edubunto server 7.1 is gui or not?
[18:39] <alkisg> 7.10? that's ancient :)
[18:39] <alkisg> You'd better use 9.04
[18:40] <tubmangray_> I know, but the only documentation I've found that pertains to setting up a simple lab uses that version.  Here lies my problem :(
[18:40] <alkisg> Heh. No, you *shouldn't* use 7.04. You should either use 8.04 (=lts version) or 9.04.
[18:41] <tubmangray_> ok, i will pursue LTS version.
[18:44] <tubmangray_> ver 8.1 ok to use as well?
[18:45] <alkisg> 8.10? You don't really have any reason to use that. I'd suggest that you used 9.04.
[18:46] <alkisg> tubmangray_: you may try it now in your house, and if you have any questions, you could just ask here again...
[18:46] <tubmangray_> last question and sorry to be so ignorant: is LTSP on an alternate 9.04 install disk?
[18:46] <alkisg> As for the software, the teachers will tell you what they want.
[18:46] <alkisg> Yes, to install LTSP the best way is to use the alternate cd and press F4 while booting from it
[18:47] <tubmangray_> thanks!  I found those instructions with earlier versions, but never assumed same held true with 9.04.  Off to work on this, and many, many thanks
[21:01] <sbalneav> alkisg: Hey
[21:01] <sbalneav> "Try this"
[21:01] <alkisg> Hi sbalneav
[21:01] <sbalneav> "Ok, I tried <different thing>, it didn't work"
[21:01] <sbalneav> "No, try this"
[21:02] <sbalneav> "Ok, I tried <yet another different thing>, still doesn't work"
[21:02] <sbalneav> "sigh"
[21:02] <sbalneav> heh, you're having fun with that monitor fellow, eh?
[21:02] <alkisg> Heh yeah it's really tiring :-/
[21:02] <sbalneav> Do it for 20 years. :)
[21:03] <alkisg> I have :( (ok 17...)
[21:03] <sbalneav> lol
[21:03] <sbalneav> And people wonder why us computer sysadmins become bitter :)
[21:04] <sbalneav> Do they have the equivalent to "PEBKAC" in Greek?
[21:05]  * alkisg googles...
[21:06] <alkisg> Heh. Not really, I've only heard that in english-lang forums or irc...
[21:07] <alkisg> sbalneav: do you have any time these days to help me work out the import/export users utility I've been telling you about?
[21:07] <sbalneav> Surely.  I can set aside some time tomorrow
[21:08] <alkisg> I imagine a simple pygtk/glade dialog, with 2-3 buttons (import/export/help), and one treeview to display the users
[21:08] <alkisg> Can I send you an email with what I've got so far?
[21:08] <nubae> bah glade
[21:08] <alkisg> nubae: i'm open to new ideas... and also help :)
[21:09] <nubae> alkisg: I commented my pyqclic extremely cause Im gonna turn it into a tutorial
[21:09] <nubae> why dont u peruse through that
[21:09] <alkisg> Nice!
[21:09] <alkisg> What are you using, if not glade? Plain pygtk code?
[21:09] <nubae> of course
[21:10] <nubae> otherwise how are u gonna learn/understand?
[21:10] <sbalneav> alkisg: Of course.
[21:10] <sbalneav> sbalneav@ltsp.org
[21:10] <nubae> glade is kinda pointless anyway, unless u are doing a massive project
[21:10] <alkisg> nubae: I understand the need to learn, but a proper way to do things weights more in my point of view :)
[21:10] <nubae> proper way?
[21:11] <alkisg> sbalneav: ty, I will (be gentle, it's my first time :))
[21:11] <nubae> since when is glade "the proper way?"
[21:11] <alkisg> nubae: seperating the UI from the code, for once...
[21:11] <nubae> heh, but it doesnt really
[21:11] <nubae> it just gives u that illusion
[21:11] <nubae> u're far better off doing that yourself with good code
[21:12] <sbalneav> NP, if you send it out today, I'll poke around with it at home tonight, and we can hack about a bit tomorrow.
[21:12] <alkisg> I don't know if it is accepted as the proper way or not. I'm just expressing my thoughts here... E.g. in Delphi programming, where I'm experienced, forms are also seperated from the code.
[21:12] <nubae> pygtk= code for ui
[21:12] <alkisg> sbalneav: nice, thanks, I'll try to gather what I have in a presentable way
[21:12] <nubae> how do u want to seperate the code from that exactly?
[21:12] <alkisg> nubae: so your pygtk code is on a different file than the rest of your python code?
[21:12] <nubae> seems kind of silly to me
[21:13] <nubae> its ALL pygtk, if u are manipulating a window based program
[21:13] <sbalneav> So, my example code for the blog post I'm going to do (a putpwent that's ldapified) has already surpassed 300 lines LOL.
[21:13] <nubae> or whatever library u are using for the widgetry
[21:13] <alkisg> 300 lines doesn't seem too bad if it going to fix such a major problem :)
[21:13] <nubae> think of it this way... its gtk... and if u want to properly understand it... then do it manually
[21:14] <alkisg> nubae: I don't know.. I've developed large apps, with many many lines of code... Merging UI code with logic results in unreadable projects
[21:14] <nubae> yeah, I'm at 1000, but I've finally modularised it
[21:14] <nubae> alkisg: whether u code with glade or without it
[21:14] <nubae> u'll get the same thing
[21:15] <nubae> the difference being... its like comparing using openoffice or vi to edit a lightly formatted document
[21:15] <nubae> if u have a large program, with a complex ui, its probably worth it
[21:15] <alkisg> Not really. UI can be maintained by non-programmers, translators etc - code has to be maintained by a programmer
[21:16] <nubae> but from what u described above, its serious waste of time
[21:16] <nubae> and a bad way to learn
[21:16] <alkisg> Well I guess we have different opinions on this :)
[21:16] <nubae> yeah right, I'd like to see someone other than a coder maintain complex glade ui
[21:17] <alkisg> E.g. one app may be 20.000 lines, and the UI code another 20.000 lines. *Not* having to worry about syntax errors in the later is a good thing...
[21:18] <nubae> to me using glade is like using visualbasic, with the disadvantage that you dont learn anything new at all using glade, it just adds another layer of complexity to an already complex beast
[21:19] <nubae> and if u want to do anything different than the basics, like inheritance of widgets and such, forget it
[21:20] <alkisg> Again, I don't really think so... I've implemented a lot of new components in Delphi, and that didn't stop me from appreciating the fact that I can graphically design my forms
[21:20] <nubae> to me gtk is a little like putting puzzle pieces together
[21:20] <nubae> delphi=!glade/gtk
[21:21] <alkisg> Why is it so different, as to change the way I think?
[21:21] <nubae> delphi integrates the ui and code, glade doesnt, its totally different
[21:22] <alkisg> OK I think we should just leave it at "we have different opinions on this" :D
[21:22] <nubae> I've used delphi too, had to manage a real estate program that was coded in it for my company years ago
[21:22] <nubae> well I think you are not seeing the differences
[21:22] <nubae> u need a visual delphi manager to understand its code
[21:23] <nubae> u dont need that for python+gtk+cairo, etc
[21:23] <nubae> gtk is really simple in terms of layout, u have 4 methods... vertical and horizontal boxes,
[21:23] <nubae> tables
[21:24] <nubae> fixed positions
[21:24] <nubae> and shit... i forget the 4th, cause i never use it
[21:24] <alkisg> I think I understand the differences, and they don't seem so important to me - neither C# seems radically different, neither Qt (as little as I have seen it), neither Vb (for the UI/code seperation part). But yeah, I don't think I understand your point...
[21:24] <nubae> anyway, its like the difference between using dreamweaver vs vi
[21:25] <nubae> thats a better comparison
[21:25] <alkisg> E.g. "u need a visual delphi manager to understand its code" ==> what does that mean?
[21:25] <nubae> imagine u required dreamweaver to read html... that u couldnt just cat it
[21:26] <nubae> hell its like using command line vs managing everything through system and preferences
[21:26] <alkisg> I also think that html is no programming :)
[21:27] <alkisg> It's ui...
[21:27] <nubae> yeah, so is pygtk
[21:27] <nubae> even MORE so than html
[21:28] <nubae> no if I wanted to do a complex table layout that I new had to be pixel perfect, yeah I'd use dreamweaver
[21:28] <alkisg> And why wouldn't you use it for simple pages?
[21:28] <nubae> after I'd learned how to do it without it, ie, I knew all the tags, understood the underlying language
[21:28] <nubae> because its a waste of time and it adds useless code
[21:29] <nubae> makes it unreadable for the most part
[21:29] <alkisg> I think you shouldn't involve the learning part on "what's the best practice" part...
[21:29] <nubae> let me give another example...
[21:30] <alkisg> locate '*.glade' | wc -l ==> 374... so all these apps have useless code in them?
[21:31]  * alkisg thinks we should better start an editor war...
[21:31] <nubae> way to go for generalisations...
[21:31] <alkisg> I hear that emacs would be a great os, if it had a decent editor :P
[21:31] <nubae> its not about that... u're creating an app with 2-3 widgets at most... what do u need glade for?
[21:31] <nubae> what advantage does it bring?
[21:32] <alkisg> Extensibility
[21:32] <nubae> huh?
[21:32] <alkisg> I may want to add 100 scripts later on
[21:32] <nubae> oh and u can't do that with a plain editor?
[21:32] <nubae> and... is that REALLY the case?
[21:32] <alkisg> I'd prefer my co-devs to contribute glade files than plain code that I would have to read
[21:33] <nubae> but your code is 3 widgets, their contributions are hardly gonna be glade files
[21:33] <alkisg> Yes, it is. I want to develop a users manager but I don't have the time now. But the import/export thing is needed now. So it'll be a base that I hope will be extended over time
[21:33] <nubae> I would hope at least
[21:34] <nubae> anyway... do as you will... but I'm not the only person that thinks this way, I'm sure if u peruse the web u'll find plenty of reasons
[21:34] <alkisg> E.g. each script in http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/users-manager.png would probably contain a glade file, to ask the user some specific input
[21:35] <alkisg> yeah anyway I don't think it's important that we persuade each other :)
[21:37] <nubae> looking at your png I can seperate it into its gtk components off the top of my head without touching glade... can you?
[21:38] <alkisg> I can seperate it into delphi components. Nope, not gtk components, I have a hard time remembering them :)
[21:38] <nubae> and it is 3 sets of widgets in the end... a menubar, toolbar, and a treelist
[21:38] <alkisg> But my co-devs will be teachers or admins; I don't expect them to be able to do that either :)
[21:38] <nubae> and  window to hold them in if u want to count that too
[21:38] <nubae> there's no need for glade there
[21:39] <alkisg> Why not graphically design something, instead of code it?
[21:39] <alkisg> I also prefer to write my docs in openoffice instead of latex or docbook...
[21:39] <nubae> if a person can't figure out that gtk.ToolBar is a toobar, they have no business coding
[21:39] <nubae> because its already been made super easy in the code
[21:39] <nubae> its unnecesary for what you are doing
[21:40] <nubae> even if u added 100 scripts, your glade wouldnt change
[21:40] <alkisg> And you think that e.g. /usr/share/synaptic/glade/dialog_changelog.glade is more complex and it justifies using glade?
[21:40] <nubae> need to add an item to a toolbar.... gtk.toolbar.insert(item1, position)
[21:40] <alkisg> *Each* script would come with its own glade file
[21:41] <nubae> its really not hard at all to visualise, like I said before... easier than html even
[21:41] <alkisg> E.g. a script to add a bookmark would have an edit box to paste the bookmark
[21:41] <nubae> yes, synaptic's menu is far more complex
[21:41] <alkisg> The changelog dialog?
[21:41] <nubae> its the whole thing, u cant look at one item in it
[21:42] <nubae> either u use it or u dont, its not I'll use it for this little bit here
[21:42] <nubae> anyway, enough arguing... go forth and enjoy glade :-)
[21:43] <nubae> I wonder how much the pygtk and gtk reference manuals will help you though...
[21:43] <alkisg> "its not I'll use it for this little bit here" yup, /me also thinks so... That's why I want to use it in all my projects, not only the big ones :)
[21:43] <nubae> no... I was talking about per project
[21:43] <nubae> not as a general rule of thumb
[21:43] <nubae> use it when its needed
[21:44] <alkisg> nubae: don't worry. I may be new to linux, python, *and* gtk, but I've learnt a dozen or so languages in the past, I don't think it'll give me a too hard time... :)
[21:44] <alkisg> Heck, I've made my own ncurses interface before linux made the kernel :)
[21:44] <nubae> do u also use the systems and preferences managers for all your computer management?
[21:45] <alkisg> *library
[21:45] <nubae> since its an all or nothing thing it seems
[21:45] <nubae> anyway, this discussion is getting pointless...
[21:46] <alkisg> Yup. OK, let's cut it here :)
[21:46] <nubae> I've got an opinion and I wont change it and neither will you
[21:46] <alkisg> Right... /me goes back to glade...
[21:46]  * nubae goes back to vi :p
[21:47]  * nubae lies... he's actually using gedit
[21:47] <alkisg> Heh lier
[21:47] <nubae> :p
[21:47] <alkisg> *liar
[21:48] <nubae> I'd use vi, if I knew all its intricate details, but I don't
[21:48] <alkisg> I don't even want to try to learn it... :D
[21:48] <nubae> so things like searching and replacing quickly without looking it up are a pain for me in vi
[21:49] <nubae> well its nice for quick editing and for the fact that you absolutely know with all certainty its gonna be on every system
[21:49] <nubae> non windows of course
[21:49] <alkisg> I don't know... I think it's a relic from old times :)
[21:49] <nubae> I've had it a couple of times sshing into a server and only having vi there
[21:49] <alkisg> ...when esc was where tab is now :P
[21:50] <alkisg> I've learned my basic search & replace in vi, but only because I couldn't find any hex editor that did what I wanted :(
[21:51] <nubae> i've learned and unlearned it too many times to remember
[21:52] <nubae> but it is indeed kind of pointless to use vi, if u have to look up a reference via a web browser :p
[21:52] <alkisg> I think I already have about 3.768 different shortcuts in my mind... I could store another 1.000 needed for vi :P
[21:53] <alkisg> *couldn't
[21:54] <nubae> btw, this really helped me with pygtk: http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pygtktutorial/
[21:54] <nubae> very easy to understand
[21:55] <alkisg> Danke :)
[21:55] <nubae> ah alignment was teh last layout method... for some reason never use it
[23:04] <nubae> btw alkisg, Ahmuck, if its not too much trouble, would u guys mind quickly just running my program and seeing if anything strikes you as missing, odd, or just plain wrong...
[23:05] <nubae> all u have to do is: git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/pyclic/mainline.git
[23:06] <nubae> and then run python pyclic.py
[23:06]  * alkisg leaves that for another day - 1.06 am here :) g'night all!
[23:06] <nubae> it would give me immense pleasure and peace of mind if I knew your thoughts
[23:06] <nubae> oh well, tomorrow then ;-) dnight
[23:33] <Ahmuck> what is your program /