[01:37] <min> Hi, I wanted to look into a possible ALSA regression in Karmic.  It's Intel HD Audio "00:14.4 PCI bridge [0604]: ATI Technologies Inc SBx00 PCI to PCI Bridge [1002:4384]"  no longer has ALSA controls for Analog Loopback. I did not find a bug in launchpad for this.
[01:38]  * crimsun nods
[01:39] <crimsun> please just use "ubuntu-bugs"
[01:39] <crimsun> there's no need to re-announce, since i'm present.
[01:39] <crimsun> ubuntu-bug*
[01:41] <min> @crimson So do you want me to file a launchpad bug report, or just discuss it here?
[01:41] <jjardon> hello, could someone confirm this bug? : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/epiphany-browser/+bug/414748
[01:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 414748 in epiphany-browser "should depend on epiphany-webkit first" [Wishlist,New]
[01:43] <crimsun> min: please file a bug using "ubuntu-bug alsa-base"
[01:43]  * micahg is looking jjardon
[01:46] <micahg> jjardon: do you have a link showing upstream making that move?
[01:47] <jjardon> micahg, mmm, wait a moment please
[01:50] <jjardon> micahg, http://blogs.gnome.org/epiphany/2009/07/01/gecko-end-of-life/
[01:50] <jjardon> (micahg, I've updated the bug report with the link)
[01:51] <min> @crimsun Bug #426023 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/426023
[01:51] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 426023 in alsa-driver "ubuntu-bug alsa-base No analog loopback on HD Audio in Karmic 2.6.31-rc8" [Undecided,New]
[01:52] <hggdh_> good catch, jjardon
[01:53] <jjardon> hggdh, :)
[01:53] <micahg> I don't know about that bug
[01:53] <crimsun> min: that's not a bug
[01:53] <crimsun> min: that change is intentional, and it landed in changeset d78d7a90adf793943cc29a414b6f4364a700aad5 (sound-2.6.git)
[01:54] <micahg> for karmic it shouldn't matter jjardon and for karmic + 1, my guess is it will be dropped
[01:54] <crimsun> min: to quote the change:
[01:54] <crimsun>     Don't create "Analog Loopback" controls as default since these controls
[01:54] <crimsun>     are usually more harmful than useful for normal users.
[01:54] <crimsun>     Only created when "loopback = yes" hint is given.
[01:54] <hggdh> micahg: you mean epiphany will be dropped?
[01:54] <micahg> epiphany-gecko
[01:54] <hggdh> oh, OK
[01:54] <micahg> if it's not supported upstream
[01:55] <jjardon> the problem is that people that installing epiphany-browser will fille bug against an unsoported version (gecko)
[01:56] <hggdh> indeed. I guess this will be one of these bugs that will bites us back ;-)
[01:56] <jjardon> so will be rejected upstream :/
[01:57] <hggdh> well, the triager working on them will have to be careful.  meanwhile, we keep trodding on
[01:58] <micahg> well, right now epiphany browser is gnome, epiphany-browser will probably become webit
[01:58] <micahg> *should
[01:58] <micahg> or maybe -webkit will provide the epiphany-browser dummy package
[01:59] <micahg> in any case, it'll be supported in Ubuntu until it's EOL for SRUs
[02:00] <jjardon> for Gnome 2.28, only webkit backend is supported (all gnome apps are switching to webkit)
[02:01] <micahg> hmm
[02:01] <jjardon> as webkitgtk+ was accepted as external dependency
[02:01] <micahg> maybe epiphany-browser should be removed for karmic?
[02:02] <jjardon> I think is better make depend  epiphany-browser on  epiphany-webkit
[02:03] <micahg> you can't do that
[02:03]  * micahg is wondering why it was broken out...
[02:04] <jjardon> micahg, why not? (only curious)
[02:04]  * micahg is referring to the source pacakge
[02:04] <micahg> like in intrepid
[02:08] <jjardon> I vote for remove epiphany-browser then
[02:09] <micahg> ok, I changed the bug to EOL of epiphany-gecko
[02:10]  * micahg just had a discussion with asac earlier about but titles having symptoms and not solutions
[02:12] <micahg> *bug titles
[02:12] <jjardon> micahg, ok, thank you
[02:13] <micahg> thank you for finding this
[02:31] <micahg> does apport add need-duplicate-ckeck?
[02:31] <micahg> *-check
[02:33]  * micahg had apport answer me :)
[03:05] <micahg> hi
[03:05] <robert_ancell> micahg, hey
[03:05] <micahg> so I think we discussed something about old packages and redirecting at some point
[03:06] <robert_ancell> micahg, right. I guess some of these problems will go away once LP stops allowing users to directly report bugs
[03:06] <micahg> why owuld they do that?
[03:08] <robert_ancell> micahg, in that users will report from the application and that will correctly pick the LP project to file against.  The problem is glchess has a problem, they go to launchpad and search for glchess, then report against the obsolete project
[03:08] <micahg> well, I don't think that's a good diea
[03:08] <micahg> *idea
[03:08] <micahg> I'd rather have glchess redirect to gnome-games
[03:09] <micahg> I don't think everyone should have to be in the app to open the bug
[03:09] <robert_ancell> I think that is the direction bug reporting is moving, i.e. using apport to report bugs (so that the bug quality is high)
[03:09] <micahg> yes idneed
[03:09] <micahg> indeed, but I don't think the other functionality shoudl be closed out
[03:10] <robert_ancell> micahg, I think the plan is to hide it
[03:10]  * micahg will add it to agenda for hte next meeting (tomorrow) :)
[03:10] <robert_ancell> i.e. no "report bug" link, or that link will say "run apport pkg-name or go to help->report a problem"
[03:11]  * micahg doesn't like that
[03:14] <micahg> bugs right now aren't just bugs but wishlist requests as well
[03:17] <robert_ancell> micahg, yes but it's still important to know what version they are requesting against (which is often ommitted)
[03:17] <micahg> not necesarily if it's an open ended feature request
[03:22] <micahg> robert_ancell: meeting at 16:00 UTC tomorrow
[03:22] <robert_ancell> micahg, thanks
[03:23] <robert_ancell> micahg, oh I am away tomorrow but will read minutes
[03:23] <micahg> ok
[03:23] <micahg> I added this to the agenda and there don't seem to be many other items
[03:23] <micahg> so it will probably be discussed
[03:23]  * micahg hopes he can make the meeting :)
[06:03] <dholbach> good morning
[06:13] <thekorn> good morning dholbach
[06:13] <dholbach> hola thekorn!
[06:14] <thekorn> oha, dholbach is in spanish mode today ;)
[06:14] <dholbach> not too much :)
[08:13] <matti> ;]
[12:46] <james_w> hola
[12:46] <james_w> are the logs Spanish in bug 426083?
[12:46] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 426083 in kerneloops "package kerneloops-daemon 0.12+git20090217-1ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: el subproceso script post-installation instalado devolvió el código de salida de error 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/426083
[14:35] <mac_v> pedro_: hi... how do i run valgrind for this> Bug #423394 it occurs immediately after login and is not consistently reproducible
[14:35] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 423394 in gnome-utils "gnome-screenshot assert failure: gnome-screenshot: ../../src/xcb_io.c:378: _XAllocID: Assertion `ret != inval_id' failed." [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423394
[14:36] <pedro_> mac_v, gnome-screenshot starts on login for you?
[14:36] <pedro_> that's weird
[14:36] <mac_v>  that crash has occurred at login only , not any time else
[14:46] <bddebian> Boo
[16:41] <micahg> are we having a meeting?
[16:43] <bdmurray> micahg: we could however, the attendance might be low since an announcement was not sent out
[16:44] <bdmurray> then again most people who show up will probably be able to make it anyway ;-)
[16:46] <micahg> also the agenda isn't that large
[16:47] <bdmurray> so lets see how many attendees we have and adjust to later if necessary
[17:05] <bdmurray> Hi, we usually have a bug squad meeting on the 2nd Tuesday of the month.  This is today but no announcement was sent out.  Is anybody here for the meeting today?
[17:05] <^arky^> o/
[17:05]  * micahg but leaving shortly :(
[17:06] <pedro_> i'm here
[17:06] <bdmurray> hggdh: ?
[17:08] <bdmurray> okay, well since the people with adgenda items are here why don't we cover the first 2 items at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting and have another meeting next week if necessary too
[17:08] <bdmurray> micahg: go ahead
[17:08] <micahg> bdmurray: I can't stay too much longer
[17:09] <micahg> but we can start I guess
[17:09] <bdmurray> or we could postpone that until the 15th...
[17:09] <bdmurray> whatever works best for you
[17:09] <micahg> maybe
[17:09] <micahg> probably better to postpone
[17:10] <micahg> next week, I should be available for the whole meeting
[17:11] <bdmurray> micahg: okay, great.  pedro_ then?
[17:11] <pedro_> yup so i won't be around next couple of weeks since i'm taking holidays
[17:11] <pedro_> so i'm looking for someone who can take care of the hug days on those weeks
[17:12] <bdmurray> pedro_: which specific days?
[17:12] <micahg> also any idea which packages?
[17:12] <pedro_> there's one for pulseaudio (no date yet though) and we need to look for an extra target
[17:13] <pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Planning
[17:13] <bdmurray> maybe not a package but the no package bugs or bugs with patches?
[17:14] <pedro_> sure, the last ones we ran about that were in April and May so yeah why not
[17:15] <bdmurray> pedro_: do you think one of those targets was more successful than another?
[17:16] <pedro_> the bugs without a package is always gets more attention
[17:16] <bdmurray> okay, it could use it more too
[17:18] <bdmurray> pedro_: and which thursdays are you gone?
[17:19] <pedro_> 17 and 24 Sept
[17:20] <bdmurray> I could set the one on the 17th and would prefer it be the no package one
[17:23]  * micahg has to run...see you next week
[17:26] <bdmurray> pedro_: does that seem alright?
[17:27] <pedro_> bdmurray, yeap sounds good to me
[17:29] <bdmurray> pedro_: and maybe sending an e-mail to the list to find someone for the 24th would be best?
[17:29] <pedro_> bdmurray, sure I'll do that
[17:30] <bdmurray> and I'll setup another meeting for next week then
[17:39]  * ^arky^ is waiting for his ubuntu-bugcontrol application review 
[18:42] <thekorn> bdmurray, pedro_ I can do the announcement for the 24th
[18:42] <bdmurray> thekorn: and set it up?
[18:43] <thekorn> bdmurray, yes, sure, why not. did you agree on a target?
[18:43] <bdmurray> pedro_: pulseaudio correct?
[19:13] <pedro_> bdmurray, thekorn yeah pulseaudio
[19:13] <pedro_> thekorn, thanks!
[21:20] <BUGabundo> hey
[21:56] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: btw, how can I debug gnome-power-manager/gnome-session/devkit-something crash?  All I get right now is this tail of .xsession-errors: http://pastebin.com/d41a0ecf8
[21:57] <kklimonda> and a crash log which is a duplicate of.. /me searching for a bug
[21:57] <kklimonda> oh, there is a pending gnome-power-manager update, I'll see if I can still recreate it
[22:09] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: looks like it's a gnome-session crashing but I can't get a good stacktrace :/
[22:12] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - that looks more like Xorg crashing
[22:12] <kklimonda> now I have two crashes..
[22:12] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: but I get no .crash file for X
[22:12] <kklimonda> only for gnome-session and gnome-power-manager
[22:13] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: how can I pinpoint it?
[22:14] <chrisccoulson> i've seen someone else say they see a simultaneous crash in gnome-session, g-p-m and dk-power already, but they didn't get a backtrace
[22:14] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: here is a report for gnome-session: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/426501
[22:14] <ubot4> kklimonda: Error: This bug is private
[22:14] <kklimonda> ech
[22:14] <kklimonda> made it public
[22:15] <chrisccoulson> will have to wait and see what the retracer makes of it
[22:15] <kklimonda> and here is one for g-p-m: bug 426503
[22:16] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 426503 in gnome-power-manager "gnome-power-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in g_str_hash()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/426503
[22:16] <kklimonda> sure, I can reproduce it really easily so if you have any questions just ask
[22:16] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, thats wierd. those are both SIGSEGV but your xsession-errors show an assertion, which is what I've seen someone report already
[22:17] <chrisccoulson> actually
[22:17] <chrisccoulson> i don't think there is an assertion there
[22:18] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: this pastebin is from crash after update: http://pastebin.com/d7df174ac
[22:26] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - i'm going to have some dinner now. i will have a look at your bugs when the retracer has dealt with them
[22:26] <kklimonda> sure, thanks
[22:26] <chrisccoulson> it would be useful though to see where those critical messages come from
[22:26] <chrisccoulson> are you familiar with debugging them?
[22:27] <chrisccoulson> those messages are likely a precursor to the crash
[22:27] <kklimonda> no, but I'm a fast learner :)
[22:28] <chrisccoulson> to debug them, you can run apps with "G_DEBUG=fatal_criticals" in the environment. this will make them abort when the message is triggered, leaving a core dump (or a backtrace if you're running in GDB). This can show what led to the message
[22:28] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: set a breakpoint for a g_log() and reproduce crash?
[22:28] <chrisccoulson> but for gnome-session, it's a little trickier
[22:29] <chrisccoulson> to debug gnome-session, you can log in to a failsafe xterm from GDM, then fire up GDB in your xterm like: "G_DEBUG=fatal_criticals gdb"
[22:29] <chrisccoulson> then you can run gnome-session from GDB - it should start your session as normal, then crash, and you should be able to get a backtrace showing where the message happened
[22:30] <chrisccoulson> it would be useful if you could try that - but gnome-session issues on startup can be tricky to debug
[22:30] <kklimonda> it's not on startup but after I unplug my usb mouse
[22:31] <chrisccoulson> that would be easier to debug then
[22:32] <chrisccoulson> you can attach GDB to the already running gnome-session
[22:32] <chrisccoulson> but you will still need to start your session from the failsafe xterm with "G_DEBUG=fatal_criticals gnome-session"
[22:32] <kklimonda> ok, I'll see what I can do.
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[23:02] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: I got some gdb logs but not full
[23:04] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31510719/gnome-session.gdb.log and http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31511412/gnome-power-manager.gdb.log
[23:05] <kklimonda> for some reason I have no symbols for dkp_device_get_object_path () and dkp_device_removed_cb () though..
[23:09] <kklimonda> and as they are probably most important I'll have to try to dig some more..
[23:58] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: any luck? I'm going to sleep soon and I've wondered if you need something more