[01:06] !ping [01:06] pong! [02:34] In ubottu, charlie_ said: firestarter is firewall it use iptable [02:58] In #ubuntu, rww said: !forget mono [03:03] !mono [03:03] Mono is monkey in Spanish. [03:03] Hmm [03:03] !-mono [03:03] mono has no aliases - added by jpds on 2009-08-12 17:58:20 [03:23] * elky raises an eyebrow at jpds [07:51] !mono [07:51] Mono is monkey in Spanish. [07:51] !forget mono [07:51] I'll forget that, jussi01 [07:51] far out, we looked and did nothing? [07:51] the phone rang right after i hit enter. [07:52] then i forgot... [07:52] ahh, distractions ftw [07:52] yah [10:11] elky: What? I was bored all the n00bs. [10:42] jpds: We are trying to cut down on the "joke" factoids, so if you dont mind it would be helpful if you could keep them informative and relevant [11:25] ikonia: may i please PM you? [11:27] but of course [11:27] any time [11:28] ikonia: thanks [12:54] !test [12:54] yes, I'm alive. [13:54] !u > indus [13:54] the 'mods' are always watching [13:55] Pici: ? [13:55] 08:53:17 the mods will step in now [13:55] oh [14:02] * ikonia is fed up with indus [14:03] hrm. !paste is pretty big [14:04] !paste [14:04] pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic [14:04] Thats 5 lines on my poor resolution screen here. [14:04] I'm on a good resolution and it' just over 4 [14:05] For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | For pasting !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | Please give us the URLs for your posts! [14:05] ah, missed pastebinit [14:06] For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com (or !pastebinit for CLI) | For pasting !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin Please give us the URLs for your posts! [14:06] Pici, better? [14:06] elky: looks good to me :) [14:06] !paste is For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com (or !pastebinit for CLI) | For pasting !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin Please give us the URLs for your posts! [14:06] But paste already means something else! [14:06] !no paste is For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com (or !pastebinit for CLI) | For pasting !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin Please give us the URLs for your posts! [14:06] I'll remember that elky [14:08] roved2101 has a welcome script running in #ubuntu [14:09] oh nm Pici got it [14:12] sorry for that guys [14:12] was an accident [14:12] Pici? [14:13] roved2101: No problem, as you can see, the channels are already busy without having unneeded announcements such has those. [14:13] your not only one I hit so I killed the client [14:13] sorry is off now [14:16] ikonia: be sure to show your support for him during his membership application, then [14:16] roved2101: Thanks. It was just a remove, so you can rejoin the channels when you wish :) [14:16] ? [14:17] thanks [14:17] ikonia: (15 mins late) [14:17] Hobbsee: sorry what ? [14:17] Hobbsee: ahhh I'd like to put a comment on that [14:17] Hobbsee: I assume you meant indus [14:17] !member [14:17] Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember [14:18] ikonia: yeah [14:18] ikonia, if you lurk in -meeting, scrollback of about 3 hrs ago or so. [14:19] I'll make a point of attending that meeting [14:19] elky++ [14:23] thank you ladies [15:23] * ikonia can feel pici's rage [17:57] Hello, is it possible to get and Ubuntu ubot to be present in the Welsh Team translation channel for launchpad & Ubuntu? [17:58] The channel in question is #cyfieuthu [17:59] that's not an ubuntu official channel [17:59] ikonia: Surely it's the channel of an official Ubuntu translation team? [18:00] ubottu is for official ubuntu channels as I understand it [18:00] Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [18:00] those in the #ubuntu name space [18:00] unless someone corrects me [18:01] * genii looks over at jussi01 [18:02] ikonia: we have a few in the non ubuntu namespace, ianto: but why is this #ubuntu-cy? [18:02] jussi01: Erm it isn't? [18:03] ianto: asorry, that should have read "isnt it" [18:03] #ubuntu-cym is the LoCo team name and -cy is the name for Cyprus' ISO code [18:04] sorry, my bad. not thinking today. Just your naming has gone a bit haywire, [18:05] It's a Welsh word for translating [18:05] it's a new chan so we could rename to #ubuntu-cyfieuthu or something [18:06] ianto: 1 moment please [18:07] ianto: Have you looked at our naming policy? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/ChannelNaming [18:08] ianto: are you connected to the loco? [18:08] I am the LoCo PoC ^ [18:09] ianto: I would suggest then something along the lines of #ubuntu-cym-$whatever [18:09] jpds: or nalioth could you sort ianto out with a clone once he has sorted the channel naming please? [18:10] jussi01: I am speaking with the translation co-ordinator at the moment [18:11] ianto: no probs. As long as you follow the channel naming policy as in that link you should be fine. [18:16] jussi01 / jpds / nalioth: The channel has been decided, #ubuntu-cymraeg ^ [18:29] Ah he has appeared [18:29] Thanks all [18:29] Out of curiosity, is there a way to localise the messages? [18:33] ianto: you can clone the bot and run it yourself then you have full control. or you can suggest messages like !factoid-#ubuntu-cymaraeg is foobar [18:34] jussi01: But suggestions need to go to ubottu, not the clones, right? [18:34] jussi01: When doing that, !factoid-#ubuntu-cymraeg is whenever !factoid is mentioned in the channel? [18:34] Pici: yeah, thats right, forgot. [18:34] yes [18:34] Yes, but that won't override it in other channls. [18:34] ianto: you need to suggest them to ubottu as she is the head bot [18:35] channels, rather. [18:35] jussi01: OK cool thanks :) [19:13] Ubuntu9: Hi. Is there something we can help you with today? [19:13] FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join) [19:14] FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join) [19:14] unban! [19:15] Ubuntu9: have you thought about the 3 points ikonia spoke about? [19:15] puki! [19:16] i'll take that as a "no" [19:16] feel free to re-join here when you have something substantive to say on the issues [19:16] for now, please /part [19:17] lol. [19:18] mneptok: Why did you just ban him? [19:18] Pricey: because he re-joins and contributes nothing [19:18] So why say <+mneptok> feel free to re-join here when you have something substantive to say on the issues [19:18] Pricey: this went on for hours the other day [19:18] Pricey: he'll be unbanned in a while. [19:19] mneptok: I don't think that the ban is at all necessary. [19:19] mneptok: If he wants to rejoin, with something substantive to say, he can't. [19:19] Pricey: feel free to remove it. [19:20] Pricey: but i suggest you read logs of the conversation the other day before doing so. [19:21] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/06/%23ubuntu-ops.txt [19:21] mneptok: I have done. [19:23] mneptok: You said he could rejoin when he has somethign to say, he can't. [19:24] Pricey: IME, he will have nothing substantive to add for at least an hour. [19:24] but, as i said, feel free to reove the ban if you want. [19:26] mneptok: I've a feeling you'll see a marked 'improvement' when he rejoins. [19:26] Pricey: are you speaking with him? [19:26] mneptok: Yep. [19:28] Pricey: i'll remove the ban. the first unconstructive comment he makes, the first re-direction he tries, or anything of that matter, i will re-ban him. at which point i will expect the typical "bans are only removed by those who place them" routine. [19:28] mneptok: I don't agree with that. [19:28] Pricey: that's your right. [19:29] mneptok: I will, and have removed bans that I *really* don't agree with. [19:29] Pricey: i do not remove others' bans based on my personal beliefs. i would escalate that to the IRCC. [19:32] i would refer you to the CoC on this point. [19:32] "When you disagree, consult others. Disagreements, both political and technical, happen all the time and the Ubuntu community is no exception. The important goal is not to avoid disagreements or differing views but to resolve them constructively. You should turn to the community and to the community process to seek advice and to resolve disagreements." [19:33] Ubuntu9: have you thought about the 3 points ikonia spoke about? [19:33] not really. [19:34] the ircguide in ubuntu is good. [19:34] {Alvinware}: 1.) your behaviour/language is unacceptable 2.) you ban evading is unaccaptable 3.) you're attitude to people in heere is unacceptable. unless you can show us all 3 have changed and will stay changed the ban will not be removed [19:34] wat u wan me to do wit tat 3 points? [19:35] think about them and respond to each one sunstantively [19:35] *substantively [19:35] your behavior and language are unacceptable. do you agree? [19:36] guide line didnt said ban evading. [19:36] uhh...fuck..uh...fucking your ass hole...ah.h...cuming in it! <--- or do you believe that is acceptable behavior and language for Ubuntu IRC channels? [19:36] only that sentence get me banned for forever was unjustice. [19:37] do. you. believe. that. language. and. behavior. is. acceptable? [19:37] mneptok: Please /whois Ubuntu9 [19:37] Pricey: yes? [19:38] for me, that sentence, maybe i'll take it lightly, or just ignore it only. [19:38] Pricey: what about it? [19:39] This isn't a language issue imo, if thats what you're trying to say Pricey. [19:39] please dicuss wit me, ok? [19:40] point ur arrow to me, not pricey. [19:40] your behavior and language are unacceptable. do you agree? [19:40] behavior, about argument? [19:41] behavior, like ban evading, swearing, telling people to "get out" etc [19:41] ban avading is not in the guide. [19:41] get out can be polite too. [19:41] it's just an advise. [19:42] Pricey: does Freenode have a policy on ban evading? [19:43] Ubuntu9: If you have been banned, it is far better to approach the person who banned you in /msg, rather than evading. [19:43] Ubuntu9: Evading is just going to make things worse. [19:43] yeah, but i seem like dont like to talk to that person. [19:44] Ubuntu9: There are lots of ops in #ubuntu, you can see them all in /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list [19:44] since i got my username registered by my e-maill, it's important. [19:44] Ubuntu9: Hopefully you can find someone you're ok talking with in there, if it happens again. [19:44] ok, pricey. [19:45] Ubuntu9: if you do not find someone, it is NOT OK to evade the ban [19:45] Ubuntu9: So are we agreed that you won't evade bans again? [19:45] the truth is, when i joint #ubuntu, it pop up this, idk for a few weeks, i confuss. [19:46] then i firgured it out that i maybe baned. [19:46] then i goto ubuntu-irc for help. [19:46] they point me back here. [19:47] Ubuntu9: Yep, that was a good thing to do. [19:47] [20:10] {Alvinware}: you where banned in #ubuntu - you changed your nickname to get past the ban [19:47] [20:10] <{Alvinware}> yes, but that's not a big deal for the changed username. [19:47] [20:10] {Alvinware}: it is - you changed it to get past a ban [19:47] [20:11] <{Alvinware}> yes, not a big deal, acceptable. [19:47] ^^^ that seems to indicate you knew exactly what you were doing ^^^ [19:47] yes, those was after that. [19:47] mneptok: And I think we've informed Ubuntu9 that ban evading isn't good. [19:48] cause i dont like to talk to some ppl. [19:48] so you were deliberatley evading a ban. and you will not do so again? [19:48] Ubuntu9: Any chance you could tell us whether you will be evading any more, or trying to contact us instead? [19:48] please make ban evading as a law. [19:48] every one follow the laws. [19:49] or make things more helpfull, like when banned user auto point to this chaneel, please attend them immediately. [19:50] Ubuntu9: That is a good point, and I have seen it come up before. We should think about that. [19:51] now, about that language ... [19:51] Ubuntu9: Hopefully, an op would try and contact the person before bannin gin the first place. [19:51] do you feel it is appropriate? [19:52] children is the channel? [19:52] in [19:52] Yes. [19:52] Ubuntu9: Read the "Language and Subject" part of our guidelines. No bad language is definitely part of our 'rules' :) [19:53] i didnt notice, sorry for that. [19:53] Thankyou for hte apology Ubuntu9. [19:53] you're welcome. [19:53] will you use any language like that again? [19:53] !away > Zachk18 [19:56] my another advise is try censoring those bad words, or just kick the user out immediately like clubpenguin. [19:57] censorship cannot happen, as that would involve the network buffering all input [19:57] when they do it again, kick, make that clear bad words is not allowed. [19:58] and Ubuntu tries to not have bots with no discretion running things. [19:58] the important thing is that you never use such language again. [19:58] cause ban will cause newbie go away from ubuntu. [19:58] eve a kids. [19:58] even. [19:59] Ubuntu9: this is more about you and your actions than it is about how Ubuntu channels are run. [19:59] Ubuntu9: Instead of a kick or a ban, how about the op trying to talk to you and ask you to stop before the bad words? [19:59] Ubuntu9: make any suggestions you want, but until you address *your* actions, no bans will be lifted. [20:00] Ubuntu9: you apology for the previous bad language is appreciated. will you not repeat such mistakes in the future? [20:00] yeah, kick but can be rejoint, but bad words again, kick, each time for bad words, that really make clear even to kids. [20:01] Ubuntu9: We do that. The reason you were banned was because you were already warned and kicked before. [20:01] censoring by kick, no need buffer, i think. [20:02] Ubuntu9: please answer my last question. [20:02] u don't do that banned user for more than a month. [20:03] Ubuntu9: please answer my last question. please. [20:04] punishment should be proportion to the crime action. [20:04] even the laws of war is the same. [20:05] Ubuntu9: will you repeat such language in the future? [20:05] Ubuntu9: please answer that question [20:05] 'language' means cursing [20:05] i'll, but not for you, sorry. [20:05] as i said i don't like to talk to certain ppls. [20:06] if i tell you to do or not do something in an Ubuntu channel, will you respect that? [20:06] (or any op) [20:06] not you, the guide only. [20:07] then you will not be unbanned. [20:07] mneptok: Is there something not covered by the guidelines? [20:07] that's from u, then i don't care. [20:08] The guidelines say to listen to the ops... [20:09] didn't said listen to ops. [20:10] i think that's for when user got banned. [20:10] "Recommendations from channel operators, including those stored in the channel bots, should be followed. " [20:12] recommendation/advise/help advise? [20:12] Ubuntu9: Now that you've seen that the guidelines say to listen to operators, are you happy to do so? [20:14] i account how the operator response. [20:15] Ubuntu9: Sorry I don't understand? [20:16] some operator attitude is good, but some are not that good. [20:16] I think it means it depends on what the operator asks them / how they ask them [20:16] Ahhh right yes. [20:16] In ubottu, erUSUL said: emptyxorg is Recent versions of the Xorg xerver do not need a full populated xorg.conf file becouse they autodetect at runtime the things needed to run. If a non empty xorg.conf is present it is followed just like before. [20:16] Ubuntu9: If you've a problem with an Ubuntu Operators attitude, could you email me about it at irc-council@lists.ubuntu.com ? That's the address of the people that manage the operators. Hopefully we'll be able to get something done about it. [20:16] erUSUL: how can we help you? [20:17] Seeker`: factoid likely... [20:17] sure, pricey. [20:17] Ubuntu9: Good stuff! [20:17] Seeker`: just to know the fate of the recent factoid a tried to add [20:17] mneptok: Is tehre anything else? [20:18] you only suggested it about 9 seconds before you joined [20:18] Pricey: the final 2 points ikonia mentioned [20:18] erUSUL: just a moment please, lets finish up with Ubuntu9 first. [20:18] ah, point 2 is the evasion [20:18] 3.) you're attitude to people in heere is unacceptable. <-- that remains to be discussed. [20:18] mneptok: I think that stems from when he sees an operator as having a bad attitude. [20:19] jussi01: no problem; [20:19] mneptok: I think I've covered that by asking Ubuntu9 to email us if he has a problem with an Ubuntu operator. [20:19] Pricey: Pici, iknoia, and myself were deliberate, conversive, thoughtful, and reasoned when we spoke to him the pther day. do you agree? [20:20] Pricey: what we received in return was anything but. [20:20] the only things seen useful to me was the guide only at that day. [20:22] Ubuntu9: ikonia, Pici, and i spent a good deal of time explaining the causes of your ban, and what you could do to end it. [20:22] ikonia, especially. [20:23] it seen like all attacking me by words to me, that's all at that day. [20:23] what parts exactly? i'd like to understand. [20:24] all ask me question all at once. [20:24] all accussed me all at once. [20:25] please consider other feeling too, even a criminal. [20:25] Ubuntu9: you asked why you were banned. we told you. [20:26] I think i'm really done with you, mneptok. [20:27] Ubuntu9: that's not really a productive attitude. i'm trying to understand why you feel the way you do. [20:28] mneptok: He's explained that he doesn't like lots of people all at once. [20:28] mneptok: See also my PMs. [20:28] Pricey: they have been read. [20:29] Ubuntu9: when you /join this channel, there is no guarantee that you will speak to 1 person, or several. it's the nature of IRC. [20:29] mneptok: That is an issue that has been brought up quite a lot. I think it is something we should be a lot more wary of. [20:31] Pricey: but until then, i don't think a user can choose to ignore ops that are trying to help simply because they are not comfortable. [20:31] mneptok: I think it is the operators responsibility not to appear hostile. [20:31] mneptok: Whether they are trying to help or not, everyone jumping in at once obviously wasn't a good experience for Ubuntu9. [20:32] that does not give someone the right to attack ops' actions, ignore them, and be combative. [20:32] Pricey: and i don;t think anyone appeared hostile the other day. [20:33] it's human natural action, psychology. [20:33] almost 2 hours were spent trying to discuss the issue [20:33] mneptok: Please read up, Ubuntu9 did not like everyone askin ghim questinos at once. [20:33] Pricey: that does not give someone the right to become combative and unresponsive. [20:33] mneptok: it seemed like all were attacking [20:33] mneptok: I think it makes that behaviour understandable. [20:34] Pricey: that's a slieppery slope, IMO [20:35] mneptok: If you and everyone else in here are nice to people, and give no reason for them to feel bad, we needn't worry about htem reacting badly because of it. [20:35] Pricey: i was quite nice. [20:36] mneptok: See above, as to why Ubuntu9 felt he was being attacked. [20:37] mneptok: I agree that what he has described happens, and I don't think it should happen. [20:38] I don't think that any of the operators involved were unreasonable. Not in this situation at least. [20:38] Pricey: you will notice from the logs that both Pici and i became much more silent once ikonia (who placed the ban) began talking [20:38] Indeed. [20:40] I think we all should re-read the logs, and deal with the operator behavior at another time and figure out Ubuntu9's ban right now. [20:41] IMO, it should be ikonia that removes the ban at this point. he can read backscroll and make an informed decision. [20:41] one man's opinion. [20:51] He was ban evading nine hours ago too it looks like. [20:51] Or, ten, I guess at this point. [20:51] Was he causing an issue? [20:52] Didn't say anything it looks like. [20:54] I could care less about the ban due to the language (well, of the various things he's done), I'd like to see him acknowledge and agree to stop being a total nuisance in the channel. [20:59] Flannel: i don;t see such an evasion. i think "XGas" is another user entirely. [20:59] mneptok: AlfVieNaiz [21:00] ah yes [21:00] I'm glad to hear that if that was him, that he didn't disrupt the channel. [21:49] Pricey: do you want to talk to me about this, I have just returned to my keyboard [21:51] ikonia: if you'd like [21:52] Pricey: not especially, I'm interested in a few of the comments you made that the user felt he was being badgered and the ops didn't try to contact him, [21:53] ikonia: hmm? [21:54] How can I get my @ubuntu.com email addressed to a new addy? [21:54] ckontros: I think if you change your primary address on launchpad, it'll be updated within the day. [21:55] Pricey: Hmm... My @ubuntu one looks to be primary. [21:55] * ckontros looks again. [21:56] ckontros: I believe if you change it to a new address, leave it a little, the cogs will churn. Once dnoe, you can change it back to your @ubuntu address [21:56] guntbert called the ops in #ubuntu (gabrielseymour - repeated spamming) [21:56] IndyGunFreak called the ops in #ubuntu (gabrielseymour) [21:56] Pricey: Ok. Thanx man. I'll give it a whirl. [21:57] Who set that ban? [21:57] which ban ? [21:57] ubuntu9's ? [21:57] 20:57:18 -!- mode/#ubuntu [+b %*!*@c-76-100-225-184.hsd1.md.comcast.net] by ChanServ [21:57] i set the quiet, after 20 seconds [21:57] right now [21:57] not be [21:57] Ok thanks niko. [21:57] me [21:58] niko: Are you in PM? [21:58] yes, but no answer [21:58] niko: Same, thanks. [21:59] ikonia: So? [21:59] Pricey: I'm just curious to your thoughts as you (in my reading) implied the user felt harrassed and a lack of communication ? [21:59] flood me with penis ... [22:00] niko: i have that album! [22:00] 19:23:08 < ~Ubuntu9> it seen like all attacking me by words to me, that's all at that day. [22:00] :) [22:00] 19:24:10 < ~Ubuntu9> all ask me question all at once. [22:00] 19:24:24 < ~Ubuntu9> all accussed me all at once. [22:00] 19:25:09 < ~Ubuntu9> please consider other feeling too, even a criminal. [22:00] ikonia: ^ [22:00] yes, that's lies [22:00] and I made a point of being clear and to the point [22:00] I did %90 of the communication with him [22:01] due to his logged deflective tactics [22:01] ikonia: I believe someone else said earlier that it was the case, but mnep and pic backed off for you to continue. [22:01] yes, they did try, and I took over as it was my ban [22:01] and was pretty much the only one talking [22:01] ikonia: But there were 3 of you to begin with? [22:02] (with the exception of the odd comment) [22:02] no there was 2 people who he was ignoring [22:02] and as I placed the ban I felt it appropriate to explain my actions to him clearly rather than let the others make assumptions on my reasonsing [22:02] his behaviour and attitude towards a single person being clear and emotionless to him was the same as his pervious attempts [22:03] 21:01:38 <+ikonia> yes, they did try, and I took over as it was my ban [22:03] ikonia: Were there 3 people to begin with? [22:03] pici and mneptok where all I was aware of [22:03] right [22:03] so there were 3 of you [22:04] sure, 2 may have backed off [22:04] but initially there were 3 [22:04] no [22:04] and I believe that is what Ubuntu9 was referring to. [22:04] Pricey: first Pici and me, then ikonia started talking and we stopped. [22:04] he had a provlem attitude when other initially approached him [22:04] I'm sorry mneptok, but that sounds like 3 of you [22:04] the number of people talking to him had no effect if it was 2 or 3 [22:04] mneptok: "2, then a 3rd started, then the first 2 stopped" [22:04] Pricey: Pici was first, and i only chimed in when the offender was obviously not listening to one person. [22:04] or 1 [22:05] This is what Ubuntu0 was referring to. [22:05] Pricey: (2+1)-2=1 [22:05] Pricey: but that is all beside the point. [22:05] Pricey: ok - that's what he was refering to, however does that excuse his behaviour towards to people or 1 [22:05] ikonia: I think that it can make such behaviour understandable. [22:06] Pricey: it started off with one person he was ignoring [22:06] what's the excuse for that ? [22:06] or the unstanable behaviour for that ? [22:06] mneptok: If there are two people talking with him, then a 3rd starts (and because of that, the other two stop) i think that's 3 people. [22:06] or is this just another excuse [22:07] ikonia: Not sure it needs an excuse. [22:07] ikonia: If someone feels attacked, they'll behave differently. [22:07] is it acceptable [22:07] how is pici talking to him attacking him ? [22:08] guys, are you aware that this is going on since hours? [22:08] Mamarok: what's going on ? [22:08] this discussion [22:08] I've only just arrived and picked up a few points with Pricey nothing more [22:08] ikonia: I'm going to go out on a limb and say 'yes'. Its the ops responsibility to be 'nice'. [22:09] Pricey: ok - fair enough [22:10] Pricey: i would like an example of me not being nice in that Satruday discussion. [22:10]