[15:28] <hyperair> mac_v: that's some extremely huge text you've sent in the email
[15:28] <mac_v> hyperair: blame crappy yahoo ;p
[15:28] <hyperair> hahah =)
[15:29] <mac_v> had to dig that up from my old mails , hence had to send from yahoo ;)
[15:29] <hyperair> i see
[15:29] <hyperair> use a desktop client damnit ;-)
[15:30] <mac_v> hyperair: i do ,, BTW i use 2 ;p...  but  delete old mails \o/
[15:30] <mac_v> thunderbird and evo ;p
[15:30] <hyperair> evolution... it's a pretty awesome app, if it didn't lag like hell
[15:31] <tedg> hyperair: The biggest difference from getting an SSD, Evolution doesn't suck :)
[15:31] <mac_v> yeah , as of late it has become good , still lacks webmail support i guess , oor i dont knwo about it ;p
[15:31] <mac_v> tedg: lol
[15:31] <hyperair> thunderbird's webmail support sucks
[15:31] <hyperair> even with the webmail plugin
[15:31] <mac_v> but atleast something is better than nothing ;)
[15:32] <hyperair> true that
[15:32] <mac_v> BTW , i have no probs with evo  , i havent noticed any lags
[15:32] <hyperair> one thing that seriously annoys me is the whole series of processes taht get started up with evolution
[15:32] <hyperair> why does evolution need so goddamn many processes?!
[15:32] <hyperair> and then something or other will hang
[15:32] <hyperair> oh and did i mention that in the presence of a half-dead network, evolution won't even start up?
[15:33] <tedg> Lots of reasons.  Responsiveness.  Stability.  Processes are good, and Linux makes the cheap.
[15:33] <mac_v> hyperair: what so many process are you talking about?
[15:33] <mac_v> the alarm notify is optional , the data server is not evolution btw
[15:33] <hyperair> tedg: except that evolution screws up so badly that responsiveness is nil with a bad network
[15:33] <tedg> I interviewed once with a company that was running 1 to 4 thousand processes for their app on Linux.  It was pretty sweet.
[15:33] <hyperair> that's interesting
[15:34] <tedg> hyperair: That's a different bug though, not the fact that it has so many processes.
[15:34] <hyperair> point taken
[15:34] <hyperair> another thing
[15:34] <hyperair> one process for each evolution window is a *pain*
[15:34] <hyperair> a huge pain
[15:34] <mac_v> tedg: isnt it just 2 process to run evolution?
[15:34] <hyperair> when you open a new evolution window, with evolution already running, you'd expect it to be instantaneous!
[15:35] <hyperair> but every time you open a new window, it spawns a new process. i wouldn't care so much if the process initialized fast, but this takes AGES
[15:35] <mac_v> oh that ...!
[15:35] <tedg> mac_v: I've got four... and that's with no composers or anything.
[15:36] <mac_v> tedg: the alarm notify is optional and the data server is not evolution it is just a stupid name they have chosen :(
[15:36] <hyperair> oh and thunderbird 3.0 has a very sweet revamp of their authentification failed dialog (something evolution still doesnt have afaik)
[15:36] <tedg> Yes, they do take a long time to init.  I'm unsure why that is.  It might be the CORBA stuff (which is going away next release)
[15:36] <hyperair> when authentification fails for any reason (including a bad network), it asks me for my password again
[15:36] <tedg> mac_v: I'm pretty sure EDS is in the same source package...
[15:37] <hyperair> blargh, why can't it just use the same damn password and retry?!
[15:37] <hyperair> tedg: no it isn't
[15:37] <hyperair> oh yeah, eds is another pain in the ass, did i ever tell you that?
[15:38] <tedg> Hmm, I didn't realize it moved.
[15:38] <mac_v> tedg: nope... it is for "Evolution Data Server" is responsible for managing calendar and addressbook information. the name is misleading
[15:38] <hyperair> it's caused my entire panel to hang countless times
[15:38]  * tedg back when I was a kid...
[15:38] <hyperair> i'd love to turn off the clock's calendar support. i really would
[15:38] <mac_v> tedg: even when evolution is removed the eds will remain
[15:39] <tedg> hyperair: If it was done right, and didn't hang, would you?
[15:39] <hyperair> course not.
[15:39] <hyperair> but the whole point is it *isn't*
[15:39] <tedg> I'd rather fix it then :)
[15:39] <hyperair> and oh god, who's brilliant idea was it to synchronously contact servers?!
[15:40] <hyperair> wtf is the big idea with hanging on a bloody lousy wireless connection?!
[15:40] <hyperair> glib's mainloop has a whole lot of async io stuff. why couldn't it have just used it?
[15:40] <hyperair> well that felt good now that i've gotten all those rants out of me =.=
[15:41] <tedg> hyperair: To be fair, when Evolution was written, it didn't :)
[15:41] <tedg> hyperair: It has migrated over time.  It's just big and slow.
[15:41] <hyperair> tedg: *groan*
[15:41] <hyperair> tedg: then for the love of god, use *threads* damnit THREADS!
[15:41] <hyperair> imo evolution needs a rewrite from ground-up.
[15:42] <tedg> In the next release they're merging in Nokia's changes for the N900 (which uses EDS) so I'm expecting some good things :)
[15:42] <hyperair> if it'd do things asynchronously and not hang stupidly, i would consider using evolution again.
[15:43] <hyperair> i even had a evolution --force-shutdown shortcut bound in compiz back then, because of the frequent hangs
[15:44]  * mac_v wonders if evolution has themes
[15:44] <tedg> While I have a hard time defending Evolution because of things that annoy me, but I am optimistic about the 2.30 version.
[15:44] <mac_v> the look is very bulky IMO
[15:45] <mac_v> appearance rather
[15:45] <hyperair> tedg: i'd only be optimistic if they got a bunch of developers who actually cared about having a crappy network
[15:46] <tedg> hyperair: You don't think that people developing an app to work over a 3G connection care about crappy networks?
[15:46] <ScottK> It was Evolution that got me on the way to being a confirmed KDE user.
[15:47] <mac_v> tedg: i had a weird problem once , all the old mails from my pop account got re-downloaded when i triggered a manual receive , so i ended up receiving 1000 mails!
[15:47] <tedg> Heh, Evolution got ScottK to devolve ;)
[15:47] <mac_v> lol^
[15:51] <tedg> I do have to say that A thing I can't spell (bad name) from KDE is pretty cool.  There was some talk about Evolution using it as a backend.  Probably will never happen, but it'd be cool to have just one free software project doing mail.
[15:53] <ScottK> Akonadi
[15:53] <ScottK> It's actually meant to be desktop agnostic and has no KDE dependencies
[15:54] <tedg> Yeah, but I don't believe that anyone has written a GTK frontend yet. Atleast the last time I checked.
[15:54] <ScottK> It was kept off FDO because there was something there that sounded very vaguely similar, but is in fact completely different.
[15:54] <ScottK> I don't think so, but the GTK layer should be pretty thin.
[15:55] <tedg> How did the licensing there work?  I imagine they linked to the OpenChange stuff, but doesn't that require the whole thing to be GPLv3?
[15:55] <tedg> I thought KDE stuff had to be v2/v3.
[15:56] <ScottK> That might be something Ayatana might consider for a future cycle as there is a lot we could do to improve user experience with it (also with a couchdb backend it could easily hook into UbuntuOne).
[15:56]  * ScottK looks
[15:56] <tedg> In my experience, mail is never as thin as you think it should be :)
[15:56] <tedg> I think that there is already a CouchDB backend for Akonadi.  I think they sat down with the Akonadi hackers at GCDS and did it.
[15:57] <tedg> Err, jono isn't here, but I thought he demoed it.
[15:58]  * tedg is sad there won't be a desktop summit this year.
[15:58] <ScottK> lgpl 2 or later
[15:58] <ScottK> It was jcastro that demoed it.
[15:59] <tedg> Hmm, interesting.  I wonder if they have an OpenChange plugin yet.  I know Evolution had to go through a relicensing pain to get that plugin.
[15:59] <tedg> Who isn't here either :)  Man, we're "outside the community" in this room ;)
[16:10] <hyperair> what's akonadi?
[16:10] <hyperair> it sounds vaguely familiar
[16:10] <hyperair> hmm
[16:10] <hyperair> akonadi depends on qt