[00:12] <mpt_> robert_ancell, hi, any progress on the PolicyKit modality bug?
[00:13] <robert_ancell> mpt_, no, I've just shelved it at the moment (bug 423454) due to other priorities.  Note that upstream wont accept any UI changes until 2.29
[00:14] <robert_ancell> mpt_, I did some work on it but the UI is hard-coded which makes it a bit tricky :(
[00:14] <mpt_> robert_ancell, sorry, I meant the bug where the alert isn't made properly modal to the parent window (e.g. the Software Store window)
[00:14] <robert_ancell> mpt_, oh the compiz bug.  No progress yet but it is on my radar
[00:15] <mpt_> ok, thank you
[00:59] <Riddell> asac: yes I have it
[00:59] <Riddell> asac: how do I tell if it's a nozomi?
[01:06] <asac> Riddell: plug it in and paste the syslog you get
[01:34] <TheMuso> /c
[01:35] <Riddell> asac: is this what you want?  http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/daemon.log
[01:36] <Riddell> or this http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/syslog
[01:39] <asac> Riddell: yes. i will check that with you tomorrow. too late now. the modem seems to be not detected for you?
[01:40] <Riddell> asac: knetworkmanager picks up that something is there but I can't do anything with it
[01:40] <Riddell> not tried nm-applet, will do tomorrow
[01:48] <asac> Riddell: ok. /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.ModemManager.service ... append --debug to the command
[01:48] <asac> so it gets more useful output next time
[01:48] <asac> thx
[01:48] <asac> gn
[04:05] <crimsun> TheMuso: i've readded q-funk's bug reference in debian/changelog
[04:05] <crimsun> i should `bzr pull' first next time :-)
[07:07] <pitti> Good morning
[07:14] <rugby471> hello
[07:32] <didrocks> good morning pitti
[07:37] <pitti> hey didrocks!
[07:58] <robert_ancell> pitti, can you give me any pointers for bug 417900? I can't work out what is changing the permissions of the games...
[08:08] <pitti> hey robert_ancell
[08:10] <pitti> robert_ancell: I suppose it's the upstream build system
[08:10] <pitti> DEB_DH_FIXPERMS_ARGS := -X/usr/games
[08:10] <pitti> debian/rules doesn't set them, just sets this ^ so that dh_fixperms doesn't override them
[08:11] <robert_ancell> pitti, no, I checked, the upstream perms are set fine.  And they're fine in the debian/tmp directory too
[08:11] <pitti> robert_ancell: so I guess debian/rules just needs a binary-postinstal rule to chmod u+g debian/*/usr/games/* or so
[08:12] <robert_ancell> pitti, yeah I wanted to avoid that though - what is changing them and why??
[08:12] <pitti> robert_ancell: uh, weird; so debian/tmp/ has 2755, and debian/<game> has 2555?
[08:12] <pitti> robert_ancell: hm, I don't see what could cause this; anyway, the 2555 isn't the worst thing here
[08:13] <mvo> hey robert_ancell - sorry that I have not taken on compiz yet, I was busy with the UI freeze deadline
[08:13] <pitti> if you fix the Architecture: and the missing executables from teh package, then it's at least working
[08:13] <mvo> robert_ancell: I put it on my list for today
[08:13] <robert_ancell> pitti, I got debian/tmp has 2755, debian/game has 755, .deb has 555
[08:13] <pitti> robert_ancell: hm, they had 2555 in the .debs when I built it
[08:14] <pitti> I guess it wants to be setgid games to write global highscores?
[08:14] <robert_ancell> pitti, sorry, you're right
[08:14] <robert_ancell> yes
[08:14] <robert_ancell> mvo, no prob
[08:14] <pitti> robert_ancell: well, *shrug*, don't waste time on that one for now; 2555 at least works
[08:15] <robert_ancell> pitti, ok
[08:15] <robert_ancell> pitti, the arch thing is not a bug, the gnome-freecell package just contains a .desktop file and executed aisleriot (which it depends on)
[08:15] <pitti> oh
[08:15] <pitti> I thought it was suposed to contain /usr/bin/sol
[08:16] <robert_ancell> no, it just runs sol --freecell
[08:16] <pitti> ok, that looked strange
[08:17] <pitti> robert_ancell: I wonder whether it actually makes sense to have a separate package for it then, though
[08:18] <robert_ancell> pitti, it could be part of the aisleriot package.  I guess from the users perspective they are logically distinct though
[08:18] <pitti> ok
[08:26] <robert_ancell> pitti, I merged the freecell files into aisleriot - gnome-games is ready for sponsorship again :)
[08:27] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[08:27] <robert_ancell> hey seb128
[08:27] <seb128> how are you?
[08:27] <pitti> robert_ancell: ah, cool; please set the bug back to new then
[08:27] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:28] <pitti> robert_ancell: oh, btw, you had a question wrt. lintian installation yesterday, but you were offline when I came in
[08:28] <pitti> robert_ancell: settled now, or still need anything?
[08:28] <robert_ancell> pitti, I didn't have it installed - once installed bzr-buildpackage uses it automatically - very helpful
[08:28] <pitti> right
[08:28] <pitti> it's actually "debuild" which calls it
[08:29] <robert_ancell> so many layers :)
[08:34] <seb128> pitti, re pidgin cleaning, I think we should adress the log migration and the registered session issue before suggesting to clean it
[08:35] <seb128> otherwise we give the feeling to the user that there is a drop in replacement but the said change will drop all the log history for example
[08:35] <seb128> and if some user have pidgin in their session they will have no im started and an error message
[08:35] <pitti> hm; the logs won't go away
[08:35] <seb128> same difference
[08:35] <pitti> seb128: well, as I said in the bug, this shouldn't be announced as "cruft which you should purge"
[08:36] <seb128> users will never go to .dir/cache/log to browse those
[08:36] <pitti> more like "you have two instant message programs installed, woudl you like to remove one of it" or so
[08:36] <seb128> my gut feeling is that user who do cruft cleaning run it and click ok without reading
[08:36] <pitti> it's confusing to have two in the menu all of a sudden
[08:37] <seb128> hum, maybe we should really stay on pidgin
[08:37] <pitti> *shrug* I'm not too fussed about this janitor thing
[08:37] <bigon> seb128: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/427202
[08:37] <pitti> was just an idea to get a little closer to Mark's request
[08:37] <seb128> bigon, shrug, new binaries now?
[08:37] <didrocks> hey seb128, hi bigon
[08:38] <seb128> hey didrocks
[08:38] <seb128> bigon, I'm not sure we win anything by doing merges now but I will have a look later
[08:39] <seb128> pitti, I've no strong opinion about that either but did we reply on whether the janitor run in the dist-upgrader?
[08:39] <pitti> seb128: still waiting on mvo's reply on that
[08:39] <pitti> if it does, it's not an option of course
[08:40] <seb128> mvo, hello!
[08:40] <bigon> hi everybody
[08:42] <seb128> hey bigon
[08:42] <pitti> hey bigon
[08:44] <robert_ancell> seb128, is the versions script working again?
[08:44] <seb128> robert_ancell, I do run updates locally
[08:44] <seb128> which is very annoying
[08:44] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes.  I run a local copy
[08:45] <seb128> I doubt they will fix python-apt on rookery any time soon
[08:45] <bigon> another thing about telepathy framework is something has been decided for gupnp-igd support for libnice and telepathy-farsight?
[08:45] <seb128> not sure where else we could run it
[08:46] <didrocks> Quickly in LWN \o/
[08:46] <mvo> seb128: which one is that?
[08:47] <seb128> didrocks, that's the start of the success? ;-)
[08:47] <mvo> seb128: the janitor question from yesterday?
[08:47] <seb128> mvo, which what?
[08:47] <didrocks> seb128: ahah :-)
[08:47] <mvo> sorry, software-store
[08:47] <seb128> mvo, yes
[08:47] <mvo> ok
[08:47] <seb128> mvo, does dist-upgrader does some janitoring
[08:50] <mvo> seb128: yes it does, but its only a subset of what the janitor is doing
[08:50] <mvo> there is a certain overlap but in general u-m has a much better idea about obsolete stuff
[08:50] <mvo> seb128: so we want to ensure that the u-m keeps its hands of pidgin?
[08:52] <seb128> I'm not sure what pitti what to do exactly
[08:52] <seb128> pitti, ^ can you clarify?
[08:52] <seb128> if we don't want to migrate upgrading users it doesn't really make sense to clean it on upgrade, not sure when the janitor is used otherwise
[08:52] <pitti> re
[08:53] <pitti> seb128: python-apt> you could run a local version with LD_LIBRARY_PATH, like in the retracers?
[08:53] <pitti> seb128: I don't want to auto-migrate people from pidgin to empathy
[08:54] <pitti> I just want to have a place that tells you why you suddenly have two IMs, and pick the one you run/want
[08:54] <mvo> just to clarify, this is not commited yet to computer-janitor, right?
[08:54] <pitti> for karmic+1 we can re-visit whether it's then an appropriate time to move pidgin to universe and have update-manager do it's auto-removal, but we aren't there yet (as discussed)
[08:54] <pitti> mvo: right
[08:54] <mvo> I don't think there is a risk of u-m cleaning it if we do not want this
[08:55] <pitti> mvo: pidgin will stay in main for karmic
[08:55] <pitti> so u-m shouldn't propose cleanup
[08:55] <mvo> ok
[08:55] <mvo> that should be easy, a plugin for c-j that is just not part of u-m but only of c-j (u-m has only a subset of the plugins)
[08:56] <mvo> has liw agreed on writing it already? should be pretty trivial to do
[08:56] <seb128> pitti, well, python-apt ... new version would require a new libapt version too?
[08:56] <seb128> I'm still unclear about this janitor thing
[08:56] <seb128> I've the feeling that users go there and click on "clean" without reading details
[08:56] <pitti> seb128: oh, I thought it just needs to match the installed libapt? or is it libapt which is h4x0red on rookery?
[08:56] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:56] <pitti> if so, you probably need both, yes
[08:56] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> i started the libgdata MIR last night
[08:57] <seb128> dear retracers, stop spamming me, thanks
[08:57] <seb128> chrisccoulson, nice!
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> not quite finished yet though
[08:58] <robert_ancell> LP is dead :( Time for me to finish then :)
[08:58] <seb128> edge timeout a lot
[08:58] <seb128> you can use non edge
[08:58] <pitti> seb128: it obviously shouldn't appear as "unused", even less so if you have a configuration for it, of even running
[08:58] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i sent the dk-power crash bug upstream yesterday. it was slightly unclear to me where to send it, as there are only DeviceKit and DeviceKit-disks products on fd.o
[08:58] <pitti> seb128: figuring out how the UI could look like is why I opened this bug report
[08:58] <robert_ancell> I'm out of brain juice anyway, see you all tomorrow
[08:59] <pitti> chrisccoulson: devicekit has a "power" component
[08:59] <pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks!
[08:59] <seb128> pitti, should we try to be smart on configured sessions, ie users running it?
[08:59] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i figured that out in the end. it also has a "disks" component too. confusing ;)
[08:59] <pitti> if janitor can do that, it would certainly be cool
[09:00] <seb128> pitti, mvo: that's the python-apt crash on rookery
[09:01] <seb128> http://paste.ubuntu.com/268441/
[09:01] <seb128> "==9958==  Address 0x41E6010 is 0 bytes inside a block of size 16 free'd
[09:01] <seb128> ==9958==    at 0x401D268: operator delete(void*) (vg_replace_malloc.c:246)
[09:01] <seb128> ==9958==    by 0x44E58F2: std::string::_Rep::_M_destroy(std::allocator<char> const&) (in /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6.0.7)
[09:01] <seb128> ==9958==    by 0x43D0972: Configuration::Lookup(Configuration::Item*, char const*, unsigned long, bool) (in /usr/lib/libapt-pkg-libc6.3-6.so.3.51.0)
[09:01] <seb128> "
[09:02] <seb128> I guess that's a bug fixed for ages
[09:02] <seb128> but the box still run a years old version
[09:07] <pitti> seb128: macaroni.ubuntu.com is hardy; maybe just run it there?
[09:07] <seb128> pitti, but how do I put the html online there?
[09:08] <pitti> it has python-apt 0.7.4ubuntu7.5
[09:08] <pitti> seb128: http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/
[09:08] <pitti> seb128: normal public_html/
[09:08] <seb128> oh, I didn't know about that
[09:08] <pitti> seb128: it's ddebs.ubuntu.com, too
[09:08] <seb128> I though we had web hosting on rookery only
[09:11] <pitti> seb128: you have to install the launchpad bits there, but I guess that's just a matter of scp'ing over the entire directory?
[09:11] <seb128> right, will try that now
[09:11] <seb128> I still blame IS for running a so old version on rookery ;-)
[09:21] <seb128> pitti, Unable to open URL: http://www.gnome.org/~vuntz/tmp/versions/versions-2.28, (111, 'Connection refused')
[09:21] <seb128> :-(
[09:21] <pitti> ah, firewall..
[09:21] <pitti> surprising that this worked from rookery
[09:39] <seb128> mvo, is there a way to use a local apt_pkg.so rather than the system one?
[09:39] <mvo> PYTHONPATH should do the trick
[09:39] <mvo> setting PYTHONPATH I mean
[09:41] <seb128> thanks
[09:41] <mpt> seb128, yes, I meant moving the Store to the top level of the System menu
[09:42] <mpt> (good morning btw:-)
[09:43] <seb128> mpt, ok
[09:43] <seb128> mvo, ok, that works but not enough for what I need
[09:44] <seb128> the dapper python-apt doesn't support indexes in subdirs
[09:44] <seb128> and newer distro versions want a new glibc
[09:45] <seb128> enough time spent on that for today, I will keep running those locally
[09:50] <mvo> mpt: the new css seems to act funny in some cases http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/tmp/Screenshot-Ubuntu Software Store-1.png
[09:51] <mvo> seb128: let me finish the triage for software-store and I can try to help you
[09:52] <seb128> mvo, don't bother, I doubt we will get it working there, should find a recent install to run it rather
[09:53] <seb128> chrisccoulson, any idea about bug #412291? or the bugs with left hand not working
[09:53] <seb128> upstream seems to think it might be due to the migration setting patch we have
[09:53] <mpt> mvo, don't copy URLs containing spaces from Chromium, it mangles them :-)
[09:54] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yes, there is one commit recently in GIT that i can see which touches this plugin and might cause this issue
[09:54] <chrisccoulson> i didn't have much time to debug it in detail, but that's next on my list when i've done this mir
[09:54] <seb128> ok thanks
[09:54] <seb128> do you want me to try to undo the commit?
[09:55] <mpt> mvo, ok, remind me tomorrow and I'll fix it
[09:55] <mpt> I really need to get back to other design work today
[09:57] <mpt> mvo, separately, kwwii has sent me a bunch of application icons for the Store. Should I just stick them in a bug report?
[09:57] <seb128> mvo, how is the initial software-store geometry determined?
[09:57] <seb128> it has quite a margin on the right there
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> i've not looked at anything to do with trackpads, but the bugs about left hand mouse not working might be due to http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=a5c3c61908662f50ece15a3e890a0a3b493f6799
[09:57] <seb128> ie almost the space for an extra icon but not exactly
[09:57] <seb128> which looks weird
[09:58] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks, I will try that
[09:58] <mvo> mpt: custom icons means they are different from the ones in the menu - is that what we want?
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> seb128^^^ that's only 1 of 2 commits between 2.27.91 and 2.27.92 that actually touch any code
[09:58] <mpt> mvo, I mean the icon for the Store itself
[09:58] <mvo> mpt: aha, ok. sure, just put them in a bug or commit them into a branch
[09:59] <mpt> seb128, it would be nice to increase it just a little so that all the departments are shown by default without scrolling
[09:59] <seb128> right
[09:59] <chrisccoulson> is it still acceptable to ask for packages to be removed from the archive after FF?
[10:00] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[10:00] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[10:00] <Laney> yeah I need to do some removals
[10:00] <Laney> are they FFe worthy or?
[10:00] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[10:01] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: busy but fine :) and you?
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - yeah, i'm good, but busy too - trying to juggle work, ubuntu and preparing for the new arrival
[10:03] <chrisccoulson> the number of hours of sleep i get are decreasing quite a bit now!
[10:03] <didrocks> I can imagine :)
[10:03] <seb128> chrisccoulson, new arrival?
[10:03] <chrisccoulson> i have a daughter on the way in a few weeks;)
[10:04] <huats> morning everyone
[10:04] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, congrats!
[10:04] <seb128> you should stop spending your nights on ubuntu ;-)
[10:04] <chrisccoulson> heh, thanks:)
[10:04] <seb128> lut huats
[10:04] <huats> chrisccoulson: welcome to the club :) (well it is a bit further for me since it is planned for january :) and I dont know yet for a boy/girl (tomorrow))
[10:04] <huats> :)
[10:04] <huats> hello seb128
[10:04] <seb128> huats, aren't you supposed to do ubuntu training today?
[10:05] <huats> seb128: nope
[10:05] <huats> apache training on monday to wed
[10:05] <seb128> ok, I misread what you wrote yesterday I think ;-)
[10:05] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm trying to prepare myself for having little sleep though ;)
[10:05] <seb128> ah ok
[10:05] <huats> chrisccoulson: welcome to the club :) (well it is a bit further for me since it is planned for january :) and I dont know yet for a boy/girl (tomorrow))
[10:05] <chrisccoulson> congrats huats!
[10:05] <huats> :)
[10:05] <huats> same to you !
[10:05] <huats> :)
[10:05] <seb128> chrisccoulson, not sure if that's a good move, maybe a good idea to get some extra sleep rather ;-)
[10:06] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's what friday afternoons are for now ;)
[10:06] <seb128> lol
[10:06] <seb128> that's what weekend are for too ;-)
[10:06] <chrisccoulson> and i can sometimes shut my eyes at work too ;)
[10:06]  * seb128 tends to lack sleep during the week and catch up on saturday and sunday
[10:08] <seb128> chrisccoulson, good catch for the g-s-d commit
[10:08] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's what i end up doing too. i always have plans for the weekend, but then they go out of the window when i sleep in late on both mornings
[10:09] <chrisccoulson> did reverting it work?
[10:09] <chrisccoulson> i didn't look at it in any detail yet, so i'm not entirely sure what it does yet
[10:10] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yes it did
[10:11] <seb128> +                if ((device_info[i].use == IsXPointer) ||
[10:11] <seb128> I'm not sure what xinput property IsXPointer is
[10:11] <chrisccoulson> excellent!
[10:11] <seb128> $ xinput list-props "Logitech Optical USB Mouse" | grep -i point
[10:11] <seb128> $
[10:11] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm not too sure
[10:12] <chrisccoulson> i don't know what issue the commit is trying to solve
[10:13] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=6a3bedfcb9be30b883a145d7e4ce83fd9cbc3e25 might fix it:
[10:13] <chrisccoulson> "If XInput is supported, don't switch the core pointer to left-handed, as it would cancel our other settings "
[10:14] <seb128> trying
[10:16] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, that fixes it
[10:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I will backport the change to karmic
[10:21] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - excellent, thanks for testing!
[10:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks for pointing the git changes!
[10:41] <tseliot> seb128, chrisccoulson: ah, so it was a but in g-s-d (bug 27724) and not in synaptics
[10:42] <tseliot> s/but/bug/
[10:43] <seb128> tseliot, wrong bug number?
[10:43] <tseliot> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/27724
[10:44] <chrisccoulson> tseliot - yes, it seems that issue was g-s-d
[10:44] <tseliot> oh, I've just noticed this on launchpad: Launchpad will be going offline for maintenance very very soon.
[10:44] <seb128> tseliot, oh thanks, closing
[10:44] <seb128> tseliot, it displays that for hours there ..
[10:44] <seb128> ...
[10:44] <tseliot> :-/
[10:45] <tseliot> chrisccoulson: good
[10:45] <seb128> pitti, is gpm or devkitpower known to be busted when determining the battery charge level?
[10:48] <cassidy> seb128: would be good to fix https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-salut/+bug/427262
[10:49] <seb128> cassidy, thanks, I noticed the crash reports there but I was not sure what to do
[10:50] <seb128> cassidy, do you know if somebody is going to upload that to debian?
[10:50] <cassidy> seb128: I just released 0.3.10 (upstream) which should be packaged in Debian rsn
[10:51] <seb128> cassidy, do you think 0.3.10 would be good to get in karmic?
[10:52] <seb128> cassidy, it's not really late to get a new version but it needs to be interesting
[10:52] <seb128> ie no point to do changes if they don't bring value
[10:53] <cassidy> seb128: most of the changes are in tubes code (implement new interface) which are not used that much for now but would be cool to have
[10:53] <pitti> seb128: not known to me anyway; it doesn't work for you?
[10:53] <seb128> pitti, I was using my laptop on battery yesterday
[10:54] <seb128> and gpm icon tooltip was saying ~1h of battery run
[10:54] <seb128> then 2 minutes later the hardware orange light started blinking
[10:54] <seb128> and a few second later gpm went "batter almost empty you should save work.."
[10:55] <seb128> it did that twice in a week now
[10:55] <seb128> I'm not sure how to debug
[10:58] <pitti> seb128: could you please save /var/lib/DeviceKit-power/ ? it should have the history
[10:59] <pitti> seb128: which one of those was right? the 1 hour?
[10:59] <pitti> seb128: (you can check with LEDs and the button on the battery)
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: I'm done with unbreaking the DVDs, I'll get to bug 403291 now, and then I'll try battery on my laptop
[11:01] <seb128> pitti, the one hour was wrong since 2 minutes later the hardware led started to blink orange
[11:01] <pitti> ah, so it was empty
[11:01] <pitti> sorry, misread
[11:01] <seb128> and gpm did update a few second later to say "saving your work"
[11:01] <seb128> it just did skip the one hour gap in a few minutes
[11:02] <seb128> and I was not building or anything
[11:15] <pitti> meh, telepathy-salut keeps crashing today
[11:17] <pitti> ah, seb128 just uploaded a fixed version
[11:17]  * pitti hugs seb128
[11:18] <Laney> oops
[11:18]  * seb128 hugs pitti back
[11:18] <Laney> I forgot to assign the tomboy upgrade bug to myself
[11:21] <mpt> mvo, icons uploaded to bug 427279
[11:45] <seb128> mpt, mvo: looking at the gnome-panel changes, should we still list gnome-app-install in the applications menu?
[11:47] <seb128> mac_v, mpt: any opinion on the workspace naming? GNOME names those "workspace" by default and we change to desk currently
[11:47] <seb128> but the change introduce some bugs and inconsistency with the documentation
[11:47] <seb128> I'm wondering if that's a delta worth having
[11:51] <chrisccoulson> heh, there's already enough delta in our gnome-panel pacakge ;)
[11:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm looking at cleaning some ;-)
[11:53] <mac_v> seb128 , mpt:  IMO , "workspace" is better than desk , since metacity also references them as "workspace" would be easier for users to recognize
[11:54] <seb128> ok
[11:54] <seb128> let's drop the change if it's not required ;-)
[11:56] <mpt> seb128, the Store is intended to replace gnome-app-install. But I think it would be reasonable to leave the gnome-app-install special positioning in gnome-panel, in case anyone decides they want to switch back while running 9.10.
[11:56] <seb128> mpt, ok, thanks
[11:56] <mpt> seb128, why did we change to "desk" in the first place?
[11:57] <seb128> mpt, I think that's one of the changes sabdfl suggested for a cleaner desktop in dapper
[11:58] <seb128> I think the rational was "it's easier to understand what a desk is"
[11:58] <mpt> ө_ө
[11:59] <mac_v> people have gotten more accustomed to "workspace" by now ;p
[11:59] <mpt> It may be true that it's easier to understand what a desk is
[11:59] <seb128> if you guys don't make a strong point for desk I'm going to go back to what upstream is doing
[11:59] <seb128> that will fix bugs and make documentation consistent
[12:00] <mpt> I don't really care tbh
[12:00] <seb128> ok thanks
[12:00] <mpt> I don't think it's a strong enough change to be worth breaking help pages etc
[12:00] <seb128> right, that's what I think too
[12:00] <seb128> especially that it creates bugs
[12:00] <seb128> ie when adding extra desks they are named workspace right now
[12:01] <seb128> I was pondering trying to fix that or just lower delta and go with what upstream do
[12:01] <seb128> I will go with the upstream naming
[12:01] <mac_v> yeah , ex: keyboard shortcuts ... we need to pick one and be consistent everywhere , but easier to *not* change this from the upstream version ;)
[12:06] <mac_v> mpt , mvo: is the software store intended to only show 3 departments in 1 row? is it a spec or.. ?
[12:07] <seb128> mac_v, bug #8949 ... should that be un-paperpercuted?
[12:07] <mpt> mac_v, it's intended to show all the departments in the default window size without scrolling.
[12:09] <seb128> mvo, pitti: any though about what to do with bug #422568?
[12:09] <seb128> the issue is the glade to gtkbuilder changes, they will break things until session restart
[12:10] <seb128> should we try to workaround that? just say that distro upgrades need restart anyway? document it?
[12:10] <mac_v> seb128: i think so too , but david had it confirmed and assigned , so i'v assigned it to him to invalidate it
[12:10] <seb128> mac_v, ok, I will ping him when he's around
[12:10] <pitti> seb128: hm, I don't understand that
[12:10] <mvo> seb128: couldn't we load the glade (or reference it) early?
[12:10] <pitti> seb128: if it's crashing and restarting, it should use the new glade-less code surely?
[12:10] <mvo> seb128: so that even if it gets removed on disk, a refernce is still around?
[12:10] <seb128> pitti, it's not crashing, it just displays an error saying it doesn't find the .glade
[12:10] <mac_v> mpt: causes scrolling here > http://imagebin.ca/view/NhKL8qZ7.html
[12:11] <seb128> when trying to open the run application dialog for example
[12:11] <pitti> hm, it says "restarts over and over"
[12:11] <seb128> that's another issue
[12:11] <seb128> the title is the bug
[12:11] <mac_v> mpt: thats with the latest updates , Software Store 0.2.2
[12:11] <seb128> sorry I didn't read the description again
[12:11] <seb128> it doesn't crash but displays the error when trying to open dialogs using glade
[12:12] <mpt> mac_v, so mvo needs to make the window a liiiiiiitle bit wider by default :-)
[12:12] <seb128> mvo, hum, that would mean changing the jaunty version now in a non trivial way?
[12:12] <pitti> seb128: I wouldn't waste too much time on it, but if it's easy to do, maybe we can just make the panel exit if it detects this, so that it restarts properly?
[12:12] <mac_v> mvo: yeah , pls see mpt's comment ^
[12:12] <seb128> what we could so is ship the .glade files still but that's a workaround
[12:12] <seb128> ok, so
[12:12] <seb128> - do nothing and ask for session restart after dist-upgrade
[12:12] <pitti> seb128: we would have to do this until karmic+1, though, which would be a burden
[12:12] <seb128> - make gnome-panel exit
[12:13] <seb128> - ship glades files in the new packages just for that
[12:13] <mac_v> mvo: or do you want a bug filed for this >  http://imagebin.ca/view/NhKL8qZ7.html
[12:13] <mvo> seb128: I guess
[12:13] <pitti> seb128: (1) will happen pretty much automatically for jaunty upgrades, so it's good to have
[12:13] <mvo> mpt: sure, I can make it wider
[12:13] <seb128> ok
[12:13] <pitti> seb128: (2) as I said, only if it's a single-line patch which we can drop in karmic+2
[12:13] <pitti> I don't personally like (3), do you?
[12:13] <seb128> I guess I will put that at the bottom of my todolist and assume that dist-upgrade need restarts anyway
[12:14] <seb128> pitti, I don't either
[12:14] <seb128> I would be for (1)
[12:14] <pitti> seb128: yes, if for nothign else, the reboot will be triggered for the new kernel
[12:14] <mvo> is it just me or does the icon for .gz, zip files look a bit strange at first?
[12:14] <seb128> mvo, it's just you
[12:14] <seb128> (looking)
[12:14] <mvo> :)
[12:15]  * mvo hugs seb128
[12:15] <seb128> mvo, it didn't change, it's still this sort of pack there
[12:15] <seb128> or box
[12:15] <seb128> what theme are you using?
[12:16] <mvo> human-clearlooks I think
[12:16] <mvo> seb128: oh, its just in the firefox download window
[12:16] <mvo> seb128: "Downloads", nautilus shows a different one
[12:16] <seb128> ah
[12:16] <seb128> iz firefox bog
[12:17] <mvo> ok
[12:17]  * pitti -> lunch and some errands
[12:18] <mac_v> mpt: mvo: the "installed" emblem is getting cut in the apps list , couldnt this be moved to the right > http://imagebin.ca/view/vLfBje.html , the right side is totally empty .... while the app description retains the emblem on the app icon itself?
[12:20] <mvo> mac_v: size change commited
[12:21] <mac_v> oh ,ok... hm... right side would be nice too ;) wont keep the window even more empty when the window size is increased
[12:24] <mac_v> mpt: your thoughts on moving the emblem to the right?
[12:25] <mpt> mac_v, it should be in the same place and size, relative to the application icon, wherever it appears
[12:25] <mpt> mac_v, so it just needs to be raised a couple of pixels (and possibly shrunken a bit) in that list
[12:26] <mpt> mac_v, also, why is "Calculator" showing up in that list without the emblem? Is it installed (in which case it should have the emblem), or not installed (in which case it shouldn't be there at all)?
[12:26] <mac_v> mpt: hm... ok , but the right side emptiness is a bit off to me  ;)
[12:26]  * mac_v checks
[12:27] <mpt> mac_v, in future maybe we'll have a "Date Installed" column there
[12:27] <mac_v> oh , thats nice \o/
[12:27] <mpt> thanks mvo
[12:31] <mac_v> mpt: i think the calculator is due to jaunty reading or something... not sure , i dual boot jaunty and karmic , so that maybe causing this
[12:32] <mac_v> maybe due to the jaunty repo i have or... meh ;p
[12:45] <mac_v> mpt: lol! the "date installed" is a new idea ;p
[12:50] <mac_v> seb128: the indicator , why is it in the startup list? why not remove it?
[12:50] <mac_v> indicator-applet*
[12:51] <seb128> mac_v, because things started by the session are listed
[12:51] <seb128> there is no way to have it run and not listed right now
[12:51] <seb128> and that would also mean users can't stop it from running if they want
[12:52] <seb128> the whole way we deal with config migrations after upgrade sort of sucks
[12:52] <seb128> we need to work on better tools for that
[12:52] <mac_v> but that doesnt stop the applet from running , i think i'm the one who confused you about it
[12:52] <seb128> no, the code is a migration script
[12:52] <mac_v> cant the applet install the icon itself , like how other panels applets do ?
[12:52] <seb128> it adds the applet to your gnome-panel bar
[12:53] <seb128> no, applets can't add themself this way
[12:53] <mac_v> hrm...
[12:53] <seb128> the gnome-panel default configuration is a static description
[12:53] <mac_v> ok
[12:53] <seb128> we update it to be what we want
[12:53] <seb128> but your user configuration is user datas
[12:54] <seb128> and we can't easily change those in an automatic way
[12:54] <mac_v> suggesting a better description , for the i-a
[12:54] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[12:54] <seb128> I'm doing changes right now
[12:54] <seb128> I will upload your suggestion if you do one
[12:54] <mac_v> seb128: "Adds the applet to the panel on first run" ? how does that sound?
[12:55] <mac_v> first boot?
[12:55] <seb128> still confusing
[12:55] <mac_v> hmm..
[12:55] <seb128> let me think
[12:56] <seb128> something around those lines I would say
[12:56] <seb128>  
[12:57] <seb128> "adds indicator-applet to existing configurations after upgrade"
[12:57] <seb128> oh, indicator-applet is already in the title right?
[12:57] <mac_v> doesnt it add to fresh installs too?
[12:57] <seb128> "update existing configuration to add the applet"?
[12:57] <seb128> no
[12:57] <seb128> fresh install get the stock ubuntu profile which has the applet
[12:58] <seb128> the code is only there to tweak user configs for upgraders
[12:58] <seb128> ie for people who installed ubuntu before the applet existed
[12:58] <mac_v> yeah i checked it after you mentioned :)
[12:58] <mac_v> BTW , the code should remove itself too ;p
[12:59] <seb128> it can't
[12:59] <seb128> it's system installed
[12:59] <seb128> and it might be used for other users
[12:59] <seb128> ideally we would have it in the user session only yes
[12:59] <seb128> not sure how feasible that would be to make update-manager add things to .autostart
[12:59] <mac_v> its a redundant in the startup list  , its a bit misleading TBH
[13:00] <seb128> mac_v, it clearly sucks and should not be there but run once and go away
[13:00] <seb128> it's just not trivial to do
[13:00] <mac_v> we need an "upgrade manager"as you said :)
[13:00] <mac_v> or tool
[13:01] <seb128> yes
[13:02] <seb128> we know that ;-)
[13:02] <seb128> but we have only one mvo
[13:02] <seb128> and he has too much to do already
[13:02] <seb128> so we do with what we have
[13:02] <mac_v> we clone him \o/
[13:02] <mac_v> seb128: "update existing configuration to add the applet" , this is a bit confusing too
[13:03] <seb128> "sucking code which should not be there"? ;-)
[13:03] <mac_v> great +1
[13:03] <mac_v> ;p
[13:04] <mac_v> "Adds the applet to the main panel for users who upgrade from existing Ubuntu editions" , but its a bit too long :(
[13:04] <mac_v> mpt: ^ pls simplify
[13:05] <mac_v> s/existing/older
[13:06] <seb128> "Tweak upgraded configuration to match new ones"?
[13:06] <seb128> "Tweak upgraded configurations to match new ones"?
[13:06] <seb128> "Tweak upgraded configurations to match new ones (one time runner)"?
[13:06] <mac_v> hrm "Tweak" ? ;p
[13:06] <seb128> or whatever you english speakers use ;-)
[13:06] <seb128> I'm french what do I know ;-)
[13:07] <seb128> "Change"?
[13:08] <mac_v> seb128: pls see comment >https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/146918/comments/48
[13:08] <mac_v> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/146918/comments/48
[13:08] <seb128> right
[13:09] <mac_v> seb128: "Updates the old panel configuration to include the applet" ?
[13:09] <seb128> that description would match if that was the applet in the session
[13:09] <seb128> but it's the script adding it to existing configs only
[13:09] <mac_v> or "Updates old panel configurations to include the applet"
[13:09] <mac_v> hrm :( , i think we dont need to get too technical ;p
[13:09] <seb128> "Updates existing configurations to have an indicator"?
[13:10] <seb128> bah
[13:10] <mac_v> seb128:  "Updates existing configurations to have the applet"
[13:10] <seb128> let me think for a bit
[13:10] <seb128> I'm fine with this one otherwise
[13:10] <seb128> it's better than what we have now ;-)
[13:10] <mac_v> i-a , indicator doesnt need to be mentioned
[13:11] <mac_v> seb128: yeah
[13:11] <mac_v> seb128: oops ... "to have" is not correct
[13:11] <mac_v>  "Updates existing configurations to add the applet" ?
[13:13] <seb128> and maybe changing the title to "Indicator Applet Installer"?
[13:15] <mac_v> "installer" is not right either , hmm... so we change that too..?
[13:15] <seb128> mac_v, I will try to think to a way to have it not be listed there ;-)
[13:15] <mac_v> \o/ thats better
[13:16] <seb128> mac_v, btw I think djsiegel wanted to drop the separator next to fusa in the stock config
[13:16] <seb128> I'm not sure now, do you know about that?
[13:16] <seb128> I would like to do the change in the same upload if that was the case
[13:17] <mac_v> yeah... that separator really doesnt belong there , since now we have an icon "status" from indicator-session
[13:24] <mvo> seb128: sorry I was on the phone - what is needed here? another update-notifier hook?
[13:25] <seb128> mvo, still the same "how do we deal with changes to user configs on upgrade"
[13:25] <seb128> mvo, I will register a spec for that in karmic +1
[13:25] <mvo> seb128: sounds good, thanks!
[13:25] <seb128> mvo, you're welcome ;-)
[13:27] <Laney> Adds the applet to existing configurations
[13:42] <asac> i X hanging on intel chipset a big thing atm?
[13:42] <asac> or am i the only one who cannot even use his laptop ;)
[13:48]  * asac disables compiz
[13:49] <seb128> asac, when does it hang?
[13:49] <seb128> I've no issue there on i965
[13:50] <asac> all the time ... related to any compiz effect i guess. i usually only use alt-tab (because i only use keyboard)
[13:50] <asac> just doing that hangs it
[13:50] <asac> and compiz loops 100% on two CPUs
[13:50] <asac> i just found out
[13:51] <asac> i even upgraded to edgers now .. to check if that helps. but it didnt :/
[13:51] <seb128> asac, oh, that
[13:51] <seb128> asac, it should be fixed in current linux
[13:51] <seb128> bug #419264
[13:51] <seb128> I forgot about it because I'm running a fixed version for a week now
[13:52] <asac> huh?
[13:52] <asac> i updated just a few days ago to check if its fixed
[13:53] <asac> i think my bug is different then
[13:53] <asac> what is current linux?
[13:53] <seb128> I was running ogasawara's test deb
[13:53] <asac> odd i am still running -9 ... not sure whats going on
[13:53] <asac> i will try
[13:53] <asac> ah that explains it
[13:53] <seb128> and it's fixed in karmic now
[13:53] <seb128> at least she closed the bug
[13:54] <asac> ok i am running an upgrade atm. will check after rebooit
[13:54] <seb128> it was freezing on every alt-tab cycle there too
[13:55] <asac> nice
[13:55] <asac> feels like it then
[13:55]  * asac happy
[13:55] <mac_v> mpt: mvo: bug 427279 , if not known already... the icons have exec bits , so they need to be removed before uploading...
[13:55] <mvo> mac_v: thanks for noticing that
[14:06] <pitti> kenvandine: wasn't there work to split out couchdb-bin? I now have "couchdb" installed, which starts a system instance
[14:06] <pitti> which eats memory and boot time for no reason
[14:06] <kenvandine> pitti, statik is working on that
[14:07] <kenvandine> well splitting out the initscript
[14:08] <kenvandine> pitti, i think the only thing we want split out is the initscript, right?
[14:08] <kenvandine>  /usr/bin/couchdb needs to be there for desktopcouch
[14:08] <kenvandine> we just don't want the service installed
[14:09] <kenvandine> pitti, the suck is that it runs xulrunner at start to determine the xul version
[14:09] <kenvandine> adds like 3s to boot
[14:09] <pitti> eww
[14:09] <pitti> kenvandine: do you know what /usr/share/couchdb/www/ is?
[14:10] <kenvandine> no
[14:10] <kenvandine> ah
[14:10] <kenvandine> i bet that is the futon web ui files
[14:10] <pitti> we probably don't need them either?
[14:10] <kenvandine> yes we do
[14:11] <pitti> /var/lib/couchdb/0.10.0~svn809550
[14:11] <pitti> uh, what is that
[14:11] <kenvandine> weird
[14:11] <kenvandine> statik: ^^
[14:12] <pitti> right, so at least the init script needs to move
[14:12] <kenvandine> it is part of the package
[14:12] <kenvandine> so not created at run time
[14:12] <pitti> or, rather, everything except the init script should move to -bin
[14:12] <statik> ohai
[14:12] <kenvandine> i was thinking couchdb-server
[14:12] <kenvandine> for the initscript
[14:12] <kenvandine> for people that want to run it as a server
[14:13] <statik> while we're moving stuff around, i have a bug about a normal user running /usr/bin/couchdb, and that fails due to permissions. I was thinking to move that to /usr/sbin instead
[14:13] <pitti> if we rename "couchdb" and make it behave differently, then you have to fix all reverse dependencies to couchdb (and in Debian, too)
[14:13] <statik> i can commit the changes to the debian package
[14:13] <kenvandine> pitti, good point
[14:14] <pitti> it's not that many, though
[14:14] <kenvandine> statik: you would need to make sure nothing calls /usr/bin/couchdb
[14:15] <kenvandine> pitti, i do think couchdb-server would be cleaner...
[14:15] <kenvandine> how many is not that many?
[14:16] <kenvandine> damn my internet connection...
[14:16] <statik> looks like only chef
[14:16] <kenvandine> ever since my cable modem went down over night... some IPs i just can't connect to
[14:16] <kenvandine> like us.archive.ubuntu.com!
[14:16]  * kenvandine thinks he is gonna have to call them
[14:18] <kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
[14:18] <kenvandine> great use of gwibber :)
[14:18] <rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
[14:18] <rickspencer3> heh
[14:18] <seb128> hello rickspencer3
[14:18] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3
[14:18] <rickspencer3> the key thing is I wanted to get some sample code out asap
[14:18] <rickspencer3> hi seb128 , hi didrocks
[14:19] <pitti> kenvandine: apt-cache rdepends couchdb
[14:19] <pitti>   chef-server-slice
[14:19] <pitti>   chef-server
[14:19] <pitti>   bindwood
[14:19] <pitti>   python-couchdb
[14:19] <pitti>   desktopcouch
[14:19] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[14:19] <rickspencer3> hi pitti
[14:19] <kenvandine> pitti, yeah just chef
[14:19] <statik> pitti, yep out of that list only chef might care to have couchdb-server. the other packages don't want it
[14:19] <kenvandine> the other stuff doesn't need the service
[14:19] <kenvandine> damn... i can get to archive.ubuntu.com
[14:20]  * kenvandine gets the phone to yell at the cable company
[14:22] <rickspencer3> hi davidbarth
[14:28] <chrisccoulson> does anyone have any opinion on whether touchpad clicking should be enabled or disabled by default? (it's disabled currently)
[14:28] <pitti> kenvandine: do you have some minutes today that we can finally sort out bug 388898 and get the upnp stuff?
[14:28] <kenvandine> pitti, yeah i can
[14:28] <pitti> kenvandine: shall I just start a local/PPA build of farsight, or did you try already?
[14:28] <kenvandine> let me get the dx releases sorted out a bit
[14:28] <kenvandine> i tried
[14:29] <kenvandine> it didn't work
[14:29] <seb128> asac, bug #375637 sounds like a firefox bug, it should not be messing with those gconf keys
[14:29] <kenvandine> it is on my list today... wanted to talk to the upstream guys
[14:29] <kenvandine> pitti, with upnp stuff it actually fails faster :)
[14:29] <pitti> :-(
[14:30] <pitti> kenvandine, seb128: any thoughts about the final call about whether or not to use t-butterfly?
[14:30] <seb128> +1 to use it from me
[14:30] <asac> seb128: well.
[14:30] <asac> seb128: i dont think this is only about ftp
[14:30] <asac> http/https
[14:30] <seb128> the msn import doesn't work without it for example
[14:30] <asac> if you go to preferred applications ... select firefox
[14:30] <asac> and remove firefox package
[14:30] <asac> i dont think firefox package should be responsible to invalidate non existing commands
[14:30] <kenvandine> pitti,+1 from me
[14:31] <asac> rather like what i wrote in comment
[14:31] <pitti> kenvandine, seb128: ok, thanks; is that just "install and it works"? then I can deal with the dependency/seed changes and MIR stuff
[14:31] <asac> seb128: so right solution is gnome-settings-daemon to check if the selected commands are still valid and otherwise either reset to "default" or even better maintain a list of last working one and try them until there is a valid command
[14:32] <kenvandine> pitti, thx!
[14:32] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[14:32] <kenvandine> pitti, i will talk to upstream about the upnp stuff later today
[14:32] <pitti> kenvandine: great
[14:32] <kenvandine> i really want that to work
[14:32] <seb128> asac, yet another code checking things at every login for no use 99.9% of the time :-(
[14:32] <kenvandine> damn... i can't get to bzr either!
[14:32] <seb128> asac, we need uninstall hooks ;-)
[14:33] <seb128> asac, duplicate bug #217296 in any case then
[14:33] <asac> yes. i still think that its one of those polishing things that needs to be done
[14:33] <asac> to provide a great user experience
[14:33] <asac> we cannot just say: dont check corner cases if it consumes startup time ;)
[14:33] <asac> hooks would work. but it should even work if user sets it to something not packaged
[14:34] <seb128> upstream closed the bug by then, see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=545126
[14:35] <seb128> asac, I would rather display a "your default software is incorrectly set"
[14:36] <seb128> "do you want to change it now?"
[14:36] <seb128> and open the capplet if clicking on configure
[14:36] <asac> yes thats also an option
[14:36] <seb128> that would avoid complex update logic
[14:36] <seb128> and to know what to select next
[14:36] <seb128> just hack the error dialog to open the capplet
[14:36] <asac> i think on startup: check if there is something fishy
[14:37] <asac> otherwise open the preferred application dialog with warning markers next to the entries that are broken
[14:37] <asac> does that sounds better?
[14:37] <seb128> I'm not sure what the startup checks win us
[14:37] <seb128> it's extra work at every login for a thing which is likely never going to break
[14:38] <asac> its a core desktop feature to have preferred applications
[14:38] <seb128> and if it does break you can easily fix it when you get the error which suggests a way to fix it
[14:38] <asac> the argument above applies imo
[14:38] <asac> seb128: well. there is no way to unify that behaviour across applications if you say it shoud happen on click
[14:39] <seb128> it does
[14:39] <asac> there is no common lib in gtk or something that wraps this?=
[14:39] <seb128> the error comes from the library used
[14:39] <asac> what library is that
[14:40] <seb128> I need to check in the modern world
[14:40] <asac> i dont think there is a unified lib
[14:40] <seb128> it used to be libgnome and gnome-vfs
[14:40] <asac> if there is then yes
[14:40] <chrisccoulson> gnome-open is using gio
[14:40] <seb128> well, apps don't call gnome-open
[14:40] <chrisccoulson> (i think)
[14:40] <seb128> they use a g_* function
[14:40] <seb128> but the preferred browser is a gconf key
[14:40] <asac> yes
[14:40] <seb128> so it's not glib itself, could be gvfs though
[14:41] <asac> i can tell you that in the past apps queried for mime-type handlers
[14:41] <asac> and did all the rest of the business on their own
[14:41] <asac> mime-type + scheme handlers that is
[14:41] <seb128> that's orthogonal to the preferred application thing
[14:41] <asac> i dont understand
[14:42] <asac> lets summarize:
[14:42] <asac> you say you want to modify the lib (that we dont know) used by almost allmost all apps to auto trigger this?
[14:42] <asac> or are you proposing something different?
[14:42] <asac> the options i see are:
[14:43] <asac> a) on startup do the checks and open preferred applications so user can fix it
[14:43] <pitti> hm, sensible-web-browser might actually make sense/
[14:43] <pitti> ?
[14:43] <asac> b) on demand (when any app wants to open a preferrred app) that check is done
[14:43] <asac> and if it fails the same behaviour as a) ... maybe with a warning dialo
[14:43] <asac> pitti: then preferred applications needs to tweak sensible browser
[14:43] <pitti> x-www-browser?
[14:43] <seb128> pitti, it's not user friendly, or we need to patch the code to display what browser that's actually is and display an icon
[14:43] <asac> same thing.
[14:44] <pitti> asac: they already do anyway?
[14:44] <pitti> hm
[14:44] <asac> maybe. but in the preferred UI you set a command
[14:44] <asac> also you dont know up-front all the protocols that might be in gconf
[14:44] <asac> so we dont have a wrapper script for all
[14:44] <seb128> asac, I don't like the on startup thing
[14:45] <seb128> I don't like things auto-opening without actions
[14:45] <asac> seb128: i know. i just summarized it
[14:45] <seb128> I need to look how it works now
[14:45] <seb128> but apps use to call gnome-open basically
[14:45] <seb128> or whatever libgnome api that was
[14:45] <asac> sensible-browser we have ... but we dont have sensible-ftp ... or sensible-irc or whatever scheme there might exist
[14:45] <seb128> I think there is an api to call the prefered browser too nowadays
[14:46] <seb128> I think the right place for the change would be in the error handler for that call
[14:46] <seb128> ie the one which displays the error
[14:46] <asac> find the call
[14:47] <asac> i dont know about a common call that has a common error handler
[14:47] <seb128> I will have a look later, I'm trying to update gtk now and to patch gnome-panel to fix an issue
[14:47] <asac> sure
[14:47] <asac> not urgent
[14:47] <seb128> well
[14:47] <seb128> what do you think displays the error when you click on a url and the software is not set?
[14:48] <asac> the application
[14:48] <asac> that tries to open it
[14:48]  * seb128 tries
[14:48] <seb128> http//www.ubuntu.com
[14:48] <asac> apps in princpal just get the command
[14:48] <asac> and then run that
[14:48] <asac> thats my current understanding
[14:49] <asac> some apps might always run sensible/www-browser
[14:49] <chrisccoulson> gvfs implements a gio module that does the lookup from gconf then (gconf/gapplookupgconf.c in gvfs), although you probably already figured that out
[14:50] <chrisccoulson> perhaps gvfs could be made a bit more clever to update broken entries when you use them rather than just returning an error
[14:50] <chrisccoulson> and rather than having to check for them at the start of every session
[14:50] <asac> thats the general idea we are discussing, yes.
[14:53] <seb128> hum ok
[14:53] <seb128> so you might be right
[14:53] <seb128> there might be an api to call the default browser and the calling software deals with errors
[15:02] <chrisccoulson> if the default application is not installed on the system then, how would you determine what other suitable applications are installed to handle that particular URI scheme?
[15:02] <chrisccoulson> it doesn't seem to be quite as clever as the way mime types are handled
[15:10] <pitti> kenvandine: ok, papyon and butterfly MIRs written, approved, and I'm uploading empathy with butterfly recommends re-added; that shold do it
[15:13] <seb128> djsiegel, hey
[15:14] <seb128> djsiegel, did you suggest dropping the separator next to fusa in gnome-panel?
[15:14] <djsiegel> seb128: yes
[15:14] <seb128> ok, good
[15:14] <seb128> uploading that now
[15:14] <djsiegel> :)
[15:14]  * djsiegel kisses seb
[15:14] <kenvandine> pitti, thx
[15:15] <seb128> we usually do hugging around ;-)
[15:28]  * didrocks is wondering about pam stuff
[15:28] <didrocks> in common-account, account requisite                       pam_deny.so is before "account required                        pam_permit.so"
[15:29] <didrocks> so, we can never get to pam_permit.so, no (as requisite is as required, but just fail immediately if execution failed)
[15:29] <didrocks> ?
[15:41] <mvo> seb128: weeh, sweet - thanks for dealing with #426209 :)
[15:41]  * mvo hugs seb128
[15:41]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[15:42] <mvo> mpt: I noticed you added "date installed" - do you think it should list "date-installed" and "date-last-updated" ? or only the first install? or only the latest update?
[15:42] <mvo> mpt: I know this is for later :)
[15:42] <mvo> I like the idea
[15:43] <mpt> mvo, "date installed" would be the most relevant. I don't really know if the others would be useful at all.
[15:43]  * mvo nods
[15:44] <mpt> mvo, Windows XP and later tell you whether you have used an installed program "Never"/"Rarely"/"Occasionally"/"Frequently"/etc. Is there anything in Ubuntu collecting that kind of data?
[15:45] <dobey> james_w: ping
[15:45] <mvo> mpt: popcon is doing something similiar, we could try that
[15:45] <james_w> hey dobey
[15:45] <mvo> mpt: we need to add a bit more logic to ensure that dependencies are properly handled
[15:46] <mvo> mpt: (unless you want it only for app, not for packages)
[15:46] <dobey> james_w: hey... bug #426442 <- do i need to do anything special (make a branch of the source pkg branch, make a debdiff, etc...) to get this in asap?
[15:46] <mvo> seb128: is there anything that software-store needs to to in the desktop file to make the menu appearance right? or is that all done with the gnome-panel patch?
[15:46] <james_w> are the sponsors subscribed?
[15:47] <pitti> asac: yay, current langpacks work with ffox 3.5 now, thanks!
[15:47] <pitti> ArneGoetje: ^
[15:47] <dobey> ah, doesn'tlook like it
[15:47] <seb128> mvo, EPARSEQUESTION
[15:47] <pitti> asac: they still have the 3.0 translations, though
[15:47] <seb128> mvo, what do you call appearance?
[15:47] <dobey> james_w: now they are
[15:48] <mvo> seb128: sorry, let me try again - for the gnome-panel change that puts software-store to its new place - is that only needed in gnome-panel? or do I have to change anything in software-store to make it work too?
[15:48] <james_w> dobey: ok, then getting it in faster than that is a case of asking someone
[15:48]  * mvo hopes that was better
[15:48] <dobey> james_w: ok
[15:48] <asac> pitti: what do you mean?
[15:48] <seb128> mvo, it was, I'm looking if you need to change something to make it not listed in normal categories
[15:48] <asac> (2 minutes before i leave)
[15:48] <seb128> mvo, the gnome-panel change is enough to have it directly in the system menu
[15:48] <pitti> asac: the previous langpacks didn't work with 3.5; the ones that I just built on rookery do now
[15:49] <pitti> asac: but now the langpacks contain both 3.0 and 3.5 translations
[15:49] <mvo> seb128: sweet, many thanks. I have not updated the panel yet, this is why I ask
[15:49] <pitti> /usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions/langpack-de@firefox-3.0.ubuntu.com/install.rdf
[15:49] <pitti> /usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions/langpack-de@firefox-3.5.ubuntu.com/install.rdf
[15:49] <pitti> asac: it doesn't exactly break anything, I just wanted to make sure that this is deliberate
[15:50] <asac> pitti: yes
[15:50] <asac> thats the current way
[15:50]  * pitti uploads the lot and makes the buildds glow
[15:50] <dobey> james_w: one day i'll just be able to do such things myself :)
[15:50] <asac> hehe
[15:51] <mpt> mvo, seb128, just to be clear, it's after "Administration" but before the separator, right?
[15:51] <dpm> asac: pitti, unless there is a technical reason, I could deactivate the "Include in language packs" checkbox in LP for FF3.0, if you like
[15:51] <seb128> mpt, yes, what you wrote in the bug
[15:51] <dpm> in karmic, that is
[15:51] <mpt> seb128, ok, thanks, just checking :-)
[15:52] <asac> dpm: for now please not
[15:52] <dpm> ok
[15:52] <seb128> mvo, it's listed in system, admin too, you will need to tweak the desktop to avoid that
[15:53] <asac> dpm: we need those  exports so we can reimport lanagues that were already partly translated in 3.0 to 3.5
[15:53] <asac> arne probablyl did that but for now i want to keep that in case something went wrong
[15:53] <dpm> asac: ah, ok. Thanks for the clarification
[15:53] <seb128> mvo, you can add NoDisplay-true
[15:54] <seb128> =true
[15:56] <pitti> asac: could you please clean rookery:/tmp/xpitranslations* ? rookery is running low on space, and I can't do anything any more
[15:58] <mvo> seb128: thanks, commited
[15:59] <pitti> asac: oh, and /tmp/po2xpi*, too
[15:59] <pitti> seb128, mvo: could you please rm -rf rookery:/tmp/tmp* ?
[16:00] <seb128> pitti, done
[16:00] <pitti> seb128: merci
[16:00] <asac> pitti: doing that now ... but out
[16:00] <asac> its runinng a screen
[16:00] <pitti> asac: thanks
[16:00] <pitti> meh, still 97%
[16:00] <mvo> done
[16:01]  * pitti hugs asac and movo
[16:01] <pitti> and mvo, too
[16:05] <pitti> mvo:
[16:05] <pitti> drwxr-xr-x 6 changelogs changelogs 4096 Feb 14  2005 /srv/changelogs.ubuntu.com/www/changelogs/pool.x
[16:05] <pitti> mvo: do you think this could go?
[16:09] <pitti> ArneGoetje: did you happen to start the langpack upload?
[16:10] <ArneGoetje> pitti: yep
[16:10] <pitti> ArneGoetje: does it work?
[16:10] <pitti> ArneGoetje: rookery is runing out of space, and it's likely that it'll fail in the middle
[16:10] <pitti> that's why I cancelled mine
[16:10] <ArneGoetje> pitti: oh...
[16:10] <pitti> or it just failed because it got a race condition with your's
[16:10] <ArneGoetje> pitti: so far still running
[16:10] <pitti> ok, goo
[16:10] <pitti> d
[16:11] <pitti> well, at a load of 50 it will take a while..
[16:11] <pitti> ArneGoetje: I'm that --><-- close to removing the intrepid tree, since we probably won't ever do an update for it any more..
[16:12] <pitti> it's easy enough to restore, if we should ever need them
[16:12] <ArneGoetje> pitti: you mean the chance that any user still runs intrepid is very slim?
[16:13] <pitti> ArneGoetje: no, there will be plenty; but users who run intrepid AND are ubuntu translators AND give us feedback are very scarce
[16:13] <ArneGoetje> pitti: heh... yeah
[16:13] <pitti> we have trouble enough verifying the jaunty updates, after all
[16:13] <ArneGoetje> pitti: right
[16:13] <pitti> ArneGoetje: heck, I just rm -r it; as I said, we can always dpkg-source -x it again from /srv/archive.ubuntu.com
[16:13] <pitti> and we're desperate for space
[16:14] <ArneGoetje> pitti: ok, go
[16:16] <pitti> ArneGoetje: I disabled the cronjob, too
[16:17] <ArneGoetje> pitti: ok.
[16:17] <pitti> ArneGoetje: speaking of which, shouldn't we enable jaunty cronjob at least?
[16:17] <pitti> and hardy as well?
[16:17] <pitti> and karmic after this upload?
[16:17] <ArneGoetje> pitti: while you are at it... rm -r langpack-o-matic/temp
[16:18] <rugby471> hello
[16:18] <mvo> pitti: yes, that can go
[16:18] <pitti> ooh, good fodder ^
[16:18] <rugby471> mvo: did you check my branch yet?
[16:18] <ArneGoetje> pitti: yes, we can do that. The last jaunty upload went fine. So it should be safe to enable them again
[16:18] <mvo> rugby471: not yet, give me a sec
[16:18] <pitti> mvo: would you mind doing it? -EPERM for me
[16:19] <mvo> rugby471: I get some conflicts, could you please merge and see what of those are valid and which are not?
[16:19] <rugby471> mvo: np
[16:19] <pitti> ArneGoetje: all enabled again
[16:19] <rugby471> sure (merge from trunk?)
[16:19] <rugby471> mvo: ^
[16:19] <mvo> rugby471: yes please :)
[16:20] <rugby471> mvo: kl, and have you looked a the update-manager branch yet? sorry to be such a nag :-(
[16:21] <rugby471> a > at
[16:21] <mac_v> seb128: any luck with removing i-a from the startup list?
[16:22] <seb128> mac_v, no, it's low priority on my list, I've been busy with other changes
[16:22] <mac_v> sure , its a def low , ;)
[16:22] <mac_v> i'll comment about that on the bug
[16:26] <mvo> rugby471: not yet, but I will, I got a big pile of stuff that I need to look at, I wanted to finish as much software-store as possible for the freeze
[16:27] <rugby471> mvo: sure
[16:29] <mvo> pitti: the rm is running
[16:29] <pitti> mvo: danke
[16:43] <rugby471> mvo: ok I have merged with trunk
[16:43] <rugby471> mvo: the latest rev in my branch is merge with my changes
[16:43] <rugby471> it changes scrollbar policy in the viewswitcher
[16:44] <rugby471> and the icon size in the pending view
[16:44] <rugby471> mvo: ^ I am saying this here as for some reason my commit message is mucked up :-)
[16:46] <mvo> rugby471: hm, something is odd, when I merge it I get loads of conflicts (e.g. all po/ files conflict)
[16:46] <rugby471> damn it
[16:46] <rugby471> let me try again
[16:46] <mvo> sure, no problem :)
[16:48] <c_korn> eh, fully-patched, fresh installation of karmic misses some icons: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/24329/screenshot_001_1h92Zq.png
[16:53] <mac_v> c_korn: that was a purposeful move :(
[16:55] <c_korn> a move ? there were also icons in the applications menu missing. but after an update they are there again. so the move is not finished yet ?
[16:55] <seb128> vuntz, should preferences and administrations menus have icons?
[16:55] <seb128> c_korn, they changed mind on the categories
[16:56] <mac_v> seb128: c_korn: mpt suggested that the applications menu icons need to be present but not the system menu
[16:56] <seb128> ok
[16:56] <c_korn> so they are following ?
[16:57] <mac_v> yup :(
[16:57] <rugby471> mvo: ok it should work now, I had to start my branch again though :-)
[16:58] <mac_v> c_korn: if you want the icons just turn them on from the appearances prefs
[16:59] <c_korn> mac_v: oh, there they are. thanks.
[16:59] <mac_v> mpt: is the padding needed for the system menu? cant we do without the padding? so that the missing icons dont seem like a bug?
[17:00] <mac_v> vuntz: ^ ?
[17:00] <mpt> mac_v, all menus are indented that much, whether they have icons or not, for the sake of those items that have check marks or radio marks.
[17:02] <mpt> mac_v, eventually I think items with icons should be indented so that the icons of items that have them line up with the text of items that don't, but that's something to consider later once people are used to mostly-icon-less menus.
[17:02] <mac_v> yeah , that i know but it seems unnecessary to have the padding for the menus which have no intent of showing the icons
[17:02] <mvo> rugby471: thanks, I need to clarify with mpt if the pendingview should have icon size 24 or 32, I don't mind either way
[17:02] <mac_v> alteast by default
[17:02] <mpt> (And so that items with icons can themselves be boolean/radio items, which is currently impossible in GTK.)
[17:02] <mvo> rugby471: thanks for the other fixes (and sorry that your name was missing in the help page if you contributed to that :(
[17:02] <mac_v> mpt: hmm.. eventually that would be nice :)
[17:04] <c_korn> wait, icon-less menus ? is this going to be the future ?
[17:04] <pitti> kenvandine: FYI, doing the evo-couchdb 0.3.0 packaging and bzrification ATM
[17:05] <seb128> pitti, wasn't that waiting for sponsoring?
[17:05] <mac_v> c_korn: lol ... where have you been? ;p > Bug #407621
[17:05] <pitti> seb128: right (that's what I'm doing ATM)
[17:05] <seb128> pitti, ah ok, good
[17:05] <pitti> seb128: but there's no branch/package for 0.3.0
[17:05] <mpt> c_korn, icons only for items that represent the sort of object that can easily appear/disappear in the menu. E.g. applications, categories, files, folders, disks, etc.
[17:05] <seb128> pitti, it's blocked on couchdb-glib though
[17:05] <pitti> seb128: right, was just going to say
[17:05] <seb128> pitti, the update didn't have a shlibs updated so I sent it back to incomplete
[17:06] <pitti> but evo-couchdb is released upstream, so I suppose couchdb-glib is as well? (didn't check yet)
[17:06] <pitti> ah
[17:06] <seb128> pitti, btw does os have a standing exception?
[17:06] <pitti> seb128: no
[17:06] <pitti> seb128: but evo-couchdb is just three bug fixes
[17:06] <seb128> because couchdb-glib was not a bug fix version
[17:06] <pitti> seb128: but I can commit evo-couchdb to bzr at lelast
[17:06] <seb128> I was not sure if they need a ffe
[17:11] <mac_v> mpt: i think you'v ticked off , number one of this ;) > http://lifehacker.com/5355900/five-features-we-want-to-see-in-ubuntu
[17:11] <mac_v> s/ticked/checked
[17:12] <mpt> mac_v, give us another year, then yes. :-)
[17:12] <mac_v> ;p
[17:13] <mpt> Then we'll have the ratings, reviews, user-submitted descriptions, etc
[17:14] <mac_v> yeah , that would be nice :)
[17:14] <mac_v> mpt: BTW , why is this list using small font?
[17:14] <mac_v> oh that was my default nevermind
[17:14] <mpt> And a decent database of keywords of equivalents etc.
[17:16] <mpt> That's an excellent article.
[17:17] <rugby471> mpt, mvo, mac_v: I read that early this morning (as I subscribe to Lifehacker) and had to do a double-take :-)
[17:18] <rugby471> mvo: np about the credits :-) thanks for merging the branch
[17:20] <rugby471|badmint> see ya for an hour
[17:20] <rugby471|badmint> :-)
[17:21] <mac_v> rugby471|badmint: lol , bad mint ;p
[17:24] <mvo> mpt: did you respond to the icon size question for the pending view? should it be 24px or 32px by default? (sorry if I missed the answer)
[17:26] <mpt> mvo, "The items should be displayed similar to a package list view..." -- so it should use the same size icons as (for example) the list on the department screen does
[17:34] <mvo> thanks mpt, that would be 24px then
[17:50] <seb128> pitti, *shrug*, I did let the couchdb-glib to update as a learning tasks for shlibs updates ;-)
[17:50] <seb128> oh, you add a .symbols
[17:50] <pitti> seb128: well, we are the packages, they are the upstreams
[17:51] <pitti> seb128: yes, I usually prefer symbols, since it reminds me when it changes instead of silently breaking dependencies
[17:51] <seb128> pitti, well, the bug was a sponsoring request, not a request to update, but right
[17:51] <pitti> I'm just too good for this world :)
[17:51] <seb128> pitti, I sort of dislike those, need to build twice which is annoying
[17:51] <pitti> seb128: to get the changes?
[17:52] <seb128> one to get the error
[17:52] <pitti> well, you can run dpkg-gensymbols manually
[17:52] <seb128> thing you need to resume at least a debuild binary
[17:52] <seb128> or rebuild
[17:52] <seb128> well, you need the libs built for that
[17:52] <pitti> sure
[17:52] <seb128> and it made builds so slow
[17:52] <pitti> build, update symbols, clean
[17:53] <seb128> but that's sort of orthogonal
[17:53] <pitti> seb128: you don't really need to rebuild twice, but I do it to verify the changes if I edited the patch (e. g. added (optional))
[17:53] <pitti> seb128: I use this for these cases:
[17:53] <pitti> alias dreb='debuild -us -uc -nc'
[17:53] <pitti> handy if you just change the packaging
[17:53] <seb128> right, I do it too
[17:53] <seb128> takes ages for some packages
[17:53] <pitti> or, the bzr bd counterpart:
[17:53] <pitti> alias bdreb='bzr bd --reuse -- -us -uc -nc -b'
[17:53] <seb128> I should get such aliases ;-)
[17:53] <pitti> seb128: you might be better than me, but I keep forgetting to update shlibs files :/
[17:54] <mac_v> mpt: why was rugby's idea of "sliding doors" scrapped. ?
[17:54] <mac_v> for the departments
[17:54] <mpt> mac_v, it wasn't scrapped, it just wasn't finished
[17:54]  * pitti untangles gnome-games split now
[17:54] <mac_v> mpt: oh...ok
[17:54] <pitti> rebuilding _that_ again takes long ...
[17:54] <mpt> mac_v, and afaik it would have required using a WebKit view for the department lists too, which we don't really want to do
[17:54] <seb128> pitti, I've a diff-symbol script I run after builds ;-)
[17:55] <seb128> pitti, yeah, gnome-games split!
[17:55] <mac_v> mpt: hrm.. :( , but it was a nice  idea ;p , maybe we need some other way to do it :)
[17:55] <pitti> seb128: (was missing C/R gnome-games-data, but I think it will work now)
[17:55] <mpt> mac_v, yes, Clutter probably
[17:55] <mac_v> \o/
[17:55] <mpt> didrocks is awesome, he'll find a way :-)
[17:57] <pitti> seb128: I see you are busy with sponsoring, too :)
[18:02] <seb128> pitti, indeed ;-)
[18:13] <didrocks> mpt: thanks :) Well, it's kinda difficult to mix webkit and clutter, but I still can have a look (next week, probably, even if we can't still include clutter into karmic as I'm using a highely experimental branch :))
[18:56] <chrisccoulson> yesss! only 4 more hours of work left until the weekend!
[18:57] <pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, took the Friday off?
[18:57] <chrisccoulson> pitti - no, i only work for 4 hours on a friday ;)
[18:57] <chrisccoulson> i finish at lunchtime
[18:58] <seb128> chrisccoulson, see how it is at canonical ;-)
[18:58] <seb128> you say "only 4 hours left" a 8pm and people think "oh you are on vac tomorrow"
[18:58] <seb128> ie, it's normal to work 4 hours after 8pm ;-)
[18:58] <didrocks> :-)
[18:59] <seb128> that said, it's dinner time!
[18:59] <chrisccoulson> heh, yeah, i'd never be at work at 8pm!
[18:59]  * didrocks remembers of an interview where someone left at 7PM and the manager said "oh, you took your afternoon off?" :)
[19:00] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - that's quite bad ;)
[19:00] <chrisccoulson> i did some long hours in my first job, but i don't do any extra hours in my current job because they don't pay me for it ;)
[19:00] <chrisccoulson> and it's not interesting enough to be hanging around at 8pm;)
[19:02] <chrisccoulson> right, time to finish off the MIR for libgdata
[19:26] <pitti> ok, 'nuff sponsoring for today; good night everyone!
[19:26] <chrisccoulson> good night pitti
[19:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: enjoy your short work day tomorrow :)
[19:27] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks:)
[19:27] <chrisccoulson> it means i have more time to spend on here ;)
[19:58] <didrocks> pitti: python-distutils-extra only suggests devscripts, which makes fail Quickly ubuntu-project share and release command calling python-mkdebian which uses debchanges (Quickly only dep on dpkg-dev). So, how to handle it gracefully? Adding depends on Quickly ubuntu-project even if I don't directly need it? :/
[20:57] <seb128> maxb, you like tap clicking really?
[20:58] <maxb> Yes. I consider it part of the basic functionality that I expect in any laptop touchpad I may come across
[20:58] <seb128> waouh
[20:58] <seb128> I never managed to use a touchpad with that on
[20:58] <seb128> I keep clicking randomly while trying to scroll
[20:59] <maxb> huh. I've never had that problem
[20:59] <seb128> or while moving the pointer
[20:59] <seb128> not to mention clicking by mistake while typing
[21:00] <seb128> but there is an option for that now
[21:02]  * kenvandine keeps buying think pads to avoid the touchpad
[21:11] <Amaranth> seb128: I think that may be a problem with the xorg driver because I never have that issue with OS X
[21:11] <Amaranth> It's too sensitive or something
[21:11] <seb128> or you know what pressure to use or something
[21:11] <seb128> or it depends of the hardware
[21:19] <seb128> mac_v, hey, do you have any opinion on bug #388303?
[21:22] <mac_v> seb128: i'v noticed that bug , but have left it untouched because it feels like unnecessary duplication/complication... we already have fspot with collection and a bunch of nice new features , not sure why EOG needs a collection!
[21:23] <mac_v> the user wants to use EOG like fspot , i would say that would be good idea , pre-fspot's recent development but now it seems unnecessary
[21:26] <mac_v> seb128: are you interested in fixing that? i'm thinking of invalidating the papercut , or ....?
[21:27] <seb128> mac_v, I'm interested by getting it off the sponsoring queue
[21:27] <seb128> either by uploading the change or saying that need discussion
[21:27] <mac_v> i'd say we need a discussion ...
[21:28] <seb128> ok, same here
[21:28] <seb128> let me unsubscribe the sponsors meanwhile
[21:35] <mac_v> seb128: could you also change the EOG status to "triaged" ?
[21:35] <seb128> mac_v, no
[21:35] <seb128> we use triaged when upstream bugs are sent upstream
[21:35] <seb128> we = desktop team
[21:35] <seb128> I did set confirmed
[21:36] <mac_v> oh , so "in progress" is correct?
[21:36]  * mac_v rechecks
[21:36] <seb128> I just did the change
[21:38] <mac_v> hrm... lp  is slow ;p had it "in progress" in the regular but "confirmed" in edge
[21:38] <mac_v> corrected now
[22:06] <alex-weej> when i plug my usb drive in
[22:06] <alex-weej> xattrs don't appear to be enabled?
[22:06] <alex-weej> why? D: D: D: D:
[22:19] <chrisccoulson> alex-weej - no idea. probably due to the change over to dk-disks though
[22:19] <alex-weej> on jaunty?
[22:20] <chrisccoulson> no, i thought you were talking about karmic
[22:22] <chrisccoulson> is http://wiki.ubuntu.com being really slow for anyone else here? i can't edit anything at the moment
[22:25] <c_korn> the wiki opens immediately for me
[22:26] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, might be something on my connection then
[22:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it's fast there
[22:27] <chrisccoulson> thanks. it's working ok here now as well. just a temporary glitch ;)
[22:43] <c_korn> btw: is it just me or did google enlarge their search buttons ?
[23:09] <asac> where are those canberra event sounds configured?
[23:10]  * asac  checks preferesnces -> sound
[23:10] <asac> thats not it
[23:10] <asac> there is a sound theme entry
[23:10] <asac> but no way to change what sounds is played where
[23:17] <seb128> asac, I think the new GNOME UI doesn't allow changing those
[23:17] <seb128> there is a bug open about that
[23:18] <asac> seb128: what is the config file ;)?
[23:19] <seb128> asac, http://0pointer.de/public/sound-theme-spec.html
[23:19] <asac> i have a bug about about firefox using the log out drums for some operation ;) want to verify if its a config fault or misuse on firefox side
[23:19] <seb128> short reply: I don't know
[23:19] <asac> thx
[23:19] <seb128> TheMuso might know
[23:19] <asac> yeah will check with himo
[23:19] <asac> oh he is online ;)
[23:20] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - libgdata MIR is done now
[23:20] <asac> i found those sound theme like files
[23:20] <seb128> "Configuration programs that allow limited user manipulation of the selected sound theme (i.e. for disabling or replacing certain sounds), should create a dynamicly created theme "__custom" that inherits from the selected theme and store it in the "~/.local/share/sounds/__custom" directory"
[23:20] <asac> in /etc/sound
[23:20] <asac> but they only refer to all those meta info
[23:20] <asac> not the files themselves :(
[23:20] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks!
[23:21] <asac> oh ok
[23:21] <asac> there are really (just a few) file= entries
[23:21] <seb128> the /etc/sound thing is the old libgnome api sounds I think
[23:21] <seb128> libcanberra uses the new xdg spec
[23:21] <seb128> http://0pointer.de/public/sound-naming-spec.html is the naming spec
[23:22] <asac> /etc/sound/events/gnome.soundlist ... thats at least .desktop style file
[23:22] <asac> feels not sooo old
[23:22] <asac> hmm
[23:22] <asac> i will check that later ;)
[23:22] <seb128> wait for TheMuso that will be easier
[23:22] <asac> yeah
[23:23] <seb128> anyway enough work for today there
[23:23] <seb128> see you tomorrow
[23:24] <asac> enjoy
[23:37] <TheMuso> Someone was wanting to ask me something?
[23:40] <TheMuso> Ah sound theme stuff.
[23:42] <TheMuso> Yeah we can drop all /etc/sound/events files, including batstatus since gpm afaik uses libcanberra now.
[23:44] <asac> TheMuso: so the problem is that dialog-question sound
[23:44] <asac> is this drum roll
[23:44] <asac> which previously probably only was used on log out ... which might be fine
[23:44] <asac> but now firefox also uses it for importanht "question dialogs"
[23:44] <TheMuso> asac: Oh do you mean for gdm?
[23:44] <asac> TheMuso: bug 411476
[23:44] <TheMuso> asac: Does firefox-gnome-support not use libcanberra?
[23:44] <asac> TheMuso: /usr/share/sounds/ubuntu/stereo/dialog-question.wav
[23:45] <asac> thats the file we ship for dialog-question in the xdg theme
[23:45] <asac> (from what i understand)
[23:45] <TheMuso> yes thats right.
[23:45] <asac> TheMuso: i think the sound is suboptimal for the extended purpose of desktop apps using it through canberra
[23:45] <asac> for logout it was fine.
[23:45] <asac> i assignned it to the ubuntu-sounds package now. not sure what to do
[23:46] <asac> maybe the logout should use a different "theme name"?
[23:46] <asac> and the dialog-question sound become much shorter ... and less noisy?
[23:46] <TheMuso> asac: I'll look at the bug and see if I can reproduce it.
[23:47] <asac> TheMuso: ok thanks. let me know if you need help/input
[23:47] <TheMuso> asac: np
[23:48] <TheMuso> oh and that sound is not for logout at all. Previously, that sound was played with the old gdm loading, which actually needs to be fixed up for the new GDM.
[23:48] <asac> TheMuso: ok. so we could use something shorter and less annoying for dialog-question. sounds right
[23:48] <asac> not the "drum roll" just because there is a question ;)
[23:49] <TheMuso> asac: Ok, I'm going to reproduce this on a fresh user/install and go from there.
[23:50] <asac> ok i will check with you tomorrow on what you think
[23:50] <asac> (i guess for you this evening) ;)
[23:50] <TheMuso> yes
[23:51] <asac> TheMuso: one question though. who owns the sound theme? how get files in there?
[23:52] <TheMuso> asac: I don't really know who owns it. Files have different creators etc.
[23:52] <TheMuso> I just had a hand in converting it to the XDG spec.
[23:52] <asac> ah ok.
[23:52] <asac> good ... then you own it ;)
[23:52] <asac> hehe
[23:53] <TheMuso> haha
[23:53] <TheMuso> I am hapy to take responsibility for it at least.
[23:53] <TheMuso> happy