/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/10/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

boredandbloggingthen his approval application should reflect it00:00
boredandbloggingthere is no list of any community activities00:00
boredandbloggingall vague statements00:00
auroPedro_: The Ubuntu-SP have a huge volume of people, is virtually impossibile be focused on Ubuntu-BR either. We have a continental country.00:00
Technovikinglinuxmen: 3 againist , 1 for, one neutral, We would like to see you try again in a couple of months00:00
nixternalNOTE: Please be ready when you are called. When questioned, try to respond as quick as possible. time is running out :(00:00
stochasticTechnoviking, nixternal: Both lajjr and AliTabuger7_ have agreed (in a private chat) to allow me to go next as I have to leave at 23:30 for work and will otherwise not be around for my evaluation.  I didn't realize each person would take 30mins.  Is this okay with the board?00:01
nixternallajjr and AliTabuge: you don't mind that stochastic goes next?00:01
lajjrYes I did agree..if allowed.00:01
nixternalrock on00:01
AliTabuger7_I'm ok with it since he does have to be somewhere00:01
nixternalthat is totally groovy, thanks guys for letting him go00:01
stochasticThank you both for the very kind gesture00:01
Technovikingwe only have time for 1 or maybe 2 more people00:01
stochasticI owe you each a beer/coffe/tea00:01
lajjrnp00:01
AliTabuger7_As long as I get to go still, whatever.00:02
nixternalstochastic: go ahead and introduce yourself...trying to push this a bit quicker so we can get some more in00:02
nixternalAliTabuger7_: yes, you will get to go, we will not leave you hanging00:02
aurothank you guys!00:02
stochasticHi I'm Eric Hedekar https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EricHedekar00:02
stochastichttps://launchpad.net/~stochastic00:02
stochasticI'm a member of the Ubuntu Studio development team, a moderator for UbuntuForums.org (just in the Multimedia Production section), and a general advocate of Ubuntu00:03
Technovikinghold a sec, we lost a board member due to battery issues00:03
stochasticshall I repeat when pedro returns?00:04
=== zZzZ-_- is now known as st33med
stochasticPedro???00:05
nixternalstochastic: continue on, 4 == quorum so we have that00:05
Technovikingstochastic: go ahead00:05
* nixternal read "I'm a musician (with a BFA from STFU)"00:06
* nixternal wants to go to that university00:06
stochasticI've steadily been getting more familiar with the Ubuntu contribution mechanism and have plans to grow my packaging list even larger in 10.0400:06
nixternalstochastic: I see you like to package, any plans for Universe Contributors, MOTU, or Core Developer in the near future?00:07
nixternalYou should at least apply for Universe Contrib imho00:07
stochasticnixternal, yes I'd love to be a MOTU eventually00:07
stochasticthis is the first step for me00:07
nixternalyou seem to be well on your way there...your packages look good :)00:07
nixternalso do your boogs00:07
stochasticboogs?00:08
nixternalany plans on contributing to the greater Ubuntu project outside of Ubuntu Studio? Is there anything in Ubuntu Studio community wise you would like to see in ubuntu or vice versa?00:08
nixternalbugs :)00:08
stochasticI have a blog on open source audio at http://greyrockstudio.blogspot.com and I'm getting more and more active in the Vancouver LoCo00:08
Technovikingstochastic: How do you plan to fix pulse audio:)00:08
stochasticTechnoviking, with hard determined bug fixing...00:09
stochasticor with a sledgehammer00:09
stochasticmy next goal is to help get the Jack audio server into main so that firewire audio cards can integrate with desktop audio00:10
stochasticand integrate with Pulse Audio00:10
nixternalyou aren't from the Burgers.... here is a goal for you and the LoCo Team. Aaron Seigo (aseigo on IRC) is one of the KDE leaders...get him to join the team and you are golden :p00:10
Technovikingyou talk about being a mod in the multimedia area, but you have not done much on the forums since April00:10
nixternalstochastic: are you working with Daniel Chen (dtchen or crimsun on IRC) with Pulse Audio?00:10
* stochastic looks up Aaron Seigo00:10
nixternalhe just moved to Vancouver00:11
stochasticTechnoviking? I'm on the forums almost everyday00:11
nixternalScottK: you think he can get aseigo to join the loco? :D00:11
ScottK;-)00:12
ScottKIIRC he uses opensuse.00:12
Technovikingstochastic: sorry about that, just found a forum bug00:12
Technoviking:)00:12
stochasticnixternal, I'm only starting to get familiar with Pulse Audio, my main knowledge speciality is ProAudio00:12
nixternalgood testimonials...anyone here that would like to say anything further on stochastic?00:13
TheMusostochastic has been a great contributor to UbuntuStudio in recent times, both with bug fixes, package additions, and helping to move things like jack/ffado into main.00:13
fccfstochastic is good at explaining things on ubuntuforums .. used his notes many times00:14
nixternaloh no, you actually got TheMuso to speak up....trouble :)00:14
TheMusostochastic also managed to get several new packages into the Ubuntu archive, which are now shipped as part of UbuntuStudio./00:14
nixternalTheMuso: how come you haven't pushed him to us over in MOTU land yet :)00:14
Technoviking+1 here, great forums work and fanatastic work in universe00:14
* nixternal +100:14
TheMusonixternal: I wasn't aware whether he was doing other things in the community, and I haven't had time to read his wiki page to find out.00:15
boredandblogging+100:15
nixternalstochastic: seriously, start your universe contribs application, and then in the next couple of months, about the beginning of Karmic+1, go for MOTU!00:15
stochasticI'm on my way to MOTU...00:15
* stochastic starts walking there right now.00:15
TheMusoBare in mind archive reorg is coming.00:15
nixternalstochastic: haha00:15
nixternalTheMuso: I heard that 2 years ago :p00:15
nixternalya, we are gearing up for that already in the MC00:16
TheMusonixternal: read the tech board minutes, and I think you'll find thigns are moving along.00:16
nixternalyup, and we are starting to discuss it in MC on where and how to move forward00:16
cody-somerville+100:16
* nixternal is excited (kind of, I know it will be a ton of work)00:16
TheMusook00:16
delphiexile+100:16
nixternalCONGRATS stochastic and WELCOME TO UBUNTU!00:16
lajjrcongratz stochastic00:17
stochasticThank you all, and once again, thanks to lajjr and AliTabuger00:17
TheMusostochastic: Congrats!00:17
lajjrnp.00:17
lajjrBe safe.00:17
delphiexilecongratulation stochastic00:17
AliTabuger7_Have fun at work00:17
DKcrosscongrats stochastic00:17
MTecknologylajjr!00:18
nixternallajjr: you are next, please introduce yourself00:18
lajjrok..00:18
lajjrMy name is Leo Jackson I have started off with Ubuntu Dapper Drake 6.04 I was giving it a try, I continue to use it and changed to different versions while working at starting a new aspect of my Company. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/lajjr https://launchpad.net/~lajjr00:18
lajjrI changed to 7+ then 8+ and now I have Ubuntu Jaunty 9.04 on my system. I started to try to help with Items I like. Art, Graphics etc. I enjoy Inkscape so I start answering some questions. I start to do some answers in Ubuntu and bugs.00:18
lajjrI continue to add groups and start doing bugs. I also tried my hand out at packaging. Now I am at a road I want to do more so I am trying to mentor some and I added Ubuntu to my servers. I also test the new version now being Karmic.00:18
lajjrI will try to work toward being MOTU, Ubuntu Developer, Bug Control, and kill bug #100:18
ubottuhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Timeout)00:18
TheMusogood luck to those who remain. I gotta go.00:18
lajjrI will be help mentor some to.00:19
lajjrI am a programmer in my company.00:20
MTecknologyCan I make a shout out for him right away?00:20
lajjrif allowed.00:21
TechnovikingMTecknology: go ahead00:22
MTecknologyProbably reading your profile atm..00:22
MTecknologyok00:22
MTecknologylajjr has been helping me learn how to triage bug lately. He also intends to teach me how to package for the motu. In addition to this, he plans to help me learn how to work with the Linux kernel for the kernel team. Considering he is on the kernel team and active in packaging and bug control, I feel he is extremely qualified to help tutor me. If you know anything about the Ubuntu-Drupal team, he's been active in developing a 00:22
MTecknologyAs far as devoting himself to the community, I haven't seen many members go beyond his level. He's been an exceptional addition to every team I've seen him in. lajjr has been helping me learn how to triage bug lately. He also intends to teach me how to package for the motu. In addition to this, he plans to help me learn how to work with the Linux kernel for the kernel team.00:22
MTecknologyConsidering he is on the kernel team and active in packaging and bug control, I feel he is extremely qualified to help tutor me. If you know anything about the Ubuntu-Drupal team, he's been active in developing a Planet module for Drupal which will mimic PlanetPlanet. As far as devoting himself to the community, I haven't seen many members go beyond his level. He's been an exceptional addition to every team I've seen him in.00:22
MTecknologyI can't see him being anything other than a shining model of what an Ubuntu member should be. One thing I've noticed is that he doesn't like to take credit for his own work. He's prefer to let a team take credit for the work he's done. This shows me that he really is devoted to working as a community member and contributing to a whole rather than getting credit for his own work. This is an ideal example of "The Spirit of Ubunt00:22
MTecknologyhopefully none cut off00:22
lajjrI try to help more then do my own lol..00:23
lajjrUbuntu was cut..00:23
lajjrThank you MTecknology00:24
MTecknologylajjr: np - all honesty00:24
nixternallajjr: I see you are intending on joining MOTU, but do not see your name on the list 'MOTU/Council/Meeting' or the MC Mailing List....if you go for MOTU, you also get Ubuntu Membership...you didn't need to become a member first :)00:25
lajjrI would like to take some packages to their under me before doing that.00:26
nixternalalso, you might want to have packages uploaded to Universe before applying for MOTU, as all I see are packages in your PPA...do you plan on getting packages into Universe?00:26
Technovikinglajjr: You seem to be a member on alot of LP teams, what areas interests you most and where do you want to contribute to Ubuntu most?00:26
lajjrYes. I do..I paln  on getting as many packages in as possible.00:26
nixternalwhat is up with all of the languages on your LP page?00:27
lajjrwell I took Lang art in college I was a translator for a court and airport for 5 years.00:27
nixternalI see you are a member of Kubuntu bugs, a team in which I am a part of...what have you done for that team and what are your future plans for that team?00:28
lajjrwell I joined in hope to help get KDE package in I test the packages I create. I want to help make it work for all desktops.00:29
lajjrSo I like the gnome but my wife is KDE so I want to make it possible for her to help and contribute.00:30
nixternalahh, now I know why your nick was familiar, you helped me with a drupal issue a few months back00:30
MTecknologyHe's been teaching more than just me to manage bugs00:30
lajjrThe area that intrest me is graphics and programming.00:31
lajjryep a bit back.00:31
lajjryes I try to help and simplify any problems to new comers My company has 37 persons going to get on to launchpad I hope soon..00:32
nixternallajjr: any difficulties or issues you have experienced in the community and if so any ideas on how to fix them so they don't happen in the future?00:32
lajjrJohn on my wiki i only one of them.00:32
nixternallajjr: are you afraid that you might be biting off a bit more than you can chew? You are taking on a lot of tasks in LP00:33
lajjrwell not difficulties to say but a clash of style maybe way to deal with issues..00:33
nixternalone task I just looked at was Apport, in which your last comment was in June, and you set it in progress. I worked on the KDE front end for apport, how has working on apport gone for you?00:34
lajjrno I will have some of my people take some once I help them get a better hang of things..00:34
lajjrI like it Pitti is great.00:34
lajjrI had a death in my family it kill a lot of time I am still getting some problems from a person problem from that.00:35
MTecknologynixternal: From what I've seen, he seems to handle it very well. Which surprised me - I couldn't handle what's on his plate00:36
nixternalI am ready to vote00:37
nixternaleveryone other RMB person ready?00:37
boredandbloggingi'm ready00:37
Technovikingready00:37
* kirkland has to run, but I wanna give jbernard_ my +1 and two thumbs up; my testimonial is in his wiki page00:37
MTecknology[VOTE] lajjr for membership - even though I don't control the meeting00:37
MootBotMTecknology, Only the meeting chair can do that00:37
nixternalI am going to give a +1 because the work you have done has been solid..great testimonials...though I would say be careful biting off more than you can chew, and having all of that on your wiki and LP page look like you are trying to add fluff to make it look better...be careful00:37
Technoviking[VOTE] lajjr for membership00:37
MootBotPlease vote on:  lajjr for membership.00:37
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot00:37
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting00:37
nixternal+100:38
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 100:38
Technoviking+100:38
MootBot+1 received from Technoviking. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 200:38
nixternalnow you figure out how to work the thing00:38
boredandblogging-100:38
MootBot-1 received from boredandblogging. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 100:38
Technovikingcody-somerville???00:38
cody-somerville+000:39
MootBotAbstention received from cody-somerville. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 100:39
Technoviking[vote] end00:39
MTecknologykirkland: said +100:39
MootBotTechnoviking, Either there isn't a meeting in progress, or there is already an active vote.00:39
nixternalOK, so we have 2 for, 1 against, and 1 obstaining...that means there was no quorum unfortunately, which also means you didn't make it this time around...however I encourage you to come back, probably our next meeting with a little bit more refined wiki page to help us out a bit00:40
MTecknologydid his count?00:40
TechnovikingMTecknology: he is not a RMB board member00:40
nixternalno, only RMB members...Dustin is a solar loving maniac :P00:40
lajjrok thanks..00:40
nixternal#endvote00:41
MTecknologyboredandblogging: Any chance you could explain why you don't approve?00:41
nixternalTechnoviking: ^^00:41
nixternal#endvote00:41
Technoviking#endvote00:41
boredandbloggingthere is a lot of stuff on the wiki page, but none of it in depth00:41
boredandbloggingthink spread too thin00:41
nixternal[ENDVOTE}00:42
nixternal[ENDVOTE]00:42
Technoviking[ENDVOTE]00:42
MootBotFinal result is 2 for, 1 against. 1 abstained. Total: 100:42
lajjrok..end vote.00:42
nixternalit is one of those00:42
nixternalthere we go00:42
TechnovikingI'm sorry folks, but I need to go.00:42
nixternalAliTabuger7_: you are up...gotta do this quick, as Technoviking has a mad wife waiting for him :)00:42
nixternalargh00:43
AliTabuger7_Hi, I'm Evan Boldt. I've been the main developer for SpreadUbuntu project for about a year now, and it has almost earned the official spreadubuntu.com domain name. The site is currently viewable on my host (http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/).00:43
AliTabuger7_I have personally spread ubuntu at my university by putting up posters, and when appropriate, helping them install it on their computer. I have personally installed ubuntu on at least 8 of other's computers (I wasn't really keeping track until recently).00:43
AliTabuger7_While I plan to continue my dedication to SpreadUbuntu, I also hope to help develop some of the applications that make Ubuntu great. I've been teaching myself by writting unique scripts in Python. I'm also taking classes in C++, since I am a computer science major.00:43
AliTabuger7_Ubuntu membership, to me, is an honorary thing: a way to be recognized for hard, loyal work.00:43
AliTabuger7_I work most closely with Ruben Romero. Unfortunatly he couldn't make it to the meeting, but he did leave a testimonial.00:43
TechnovikingAliTabuglast one00:43
AliTabuger7_I'll be quick to respond to your questions.00:43
boredandbloggingAliTabuger7_: are you just waiting on canonical for the domain?00:45
nixternalAliTabuger7_: we know you rock out the Spread Ubuntu..and for that there is entire group of people who are grateful, now with that said, here we go :)  Any plans on coming out of the marketing arena?00:45
AliTabuger7_yes00:45
AliTabuger7_yes00:45
nixternaldamn, you are in my LoCo dude...have we met yet?00:45
nixternalI started and run Ubuntu Chicago :)00:45
Technovikingpleia2 is stepping in for me, I'm telling the meeting is ending, but not really00:45
AliTabuger7_I'm not in a loco, i don't think. I am in the chicago area, so I probably did join that group.00:46
Technoviking#endmeeting00:46
MootBotMeeting finished at 18:46.00:46
nixternalAliTabuger7_: where at are you?00:46
AliTabuger7_We are only waiting on canonical. They have yet to give us any feedback on whether they will give it to us or not.00:46
AliTabuger7_I do hope to become a developer eventually, and I am actively working on improving my skills00:46
TechnovikingThe end is still continuing:) sorry about that00:46
ScottKWaiting for what?00:46
AliTabuger7_DeKalb. I go to NIU.00:46
nixternalAliTabuger7_: rock on, I just east of St. charles...I ride my bike out by you :)00:47
AliTabuger7_Waiting for Canonical to direct the SpreadUbuntu.com domain.00:47
* nixternal almost finished his Masters at NIU00:47
AliTabuger7_I'm also contemplating starting back up the NIU LUG. I'm not sure about that yet though. It doesn't seem productive enough for me.00:47
nixternalAliTabuger7_: if we (Ubuntu Chicago) get the Ubuntu Global Jam rocking in the city, you down on coming out? join us in #ubuntu-chicago - we can continue it there later :)00:48
AliTabuger7_I'd definitely want to go.00:48
nixternalgroovy00:49
AliTabuger7_I'd also like to point out that there is a lot of hidden complexity behind SpreadUbuntu that I'm responsible for. You don't often see a site that is that good at multilingual interfaces & content for that reason.00:49
pleia2+1 from me, amazing project work, like most locos we use SpreadUbuntu for Ubuntu Pennsylvania - many thanks! :)00:50
boredandblogging+100:51
AliTabuger7_SpreadUbuntu is extremely popular in France (more so than the america's combined). It really does have a global impact.00:51
AliTabuger7_Thanks!00:51
nixternal+1 - ya dude, keep spread ubuntu rocking...and now that I know you are local, we gotta get everyone together dude, have you present it to Ubuntu Chicago, and maybe even the Chicago LUG, as this type of project can also help non-Ubuntu open source projects which totally rocks!00:51
* nixternal remembers when he worked on the original spread ubuntu in like 2005....jeesh what a headache that was00:52
AliTabuger7_Yah. I actually talked with a GNOME guy who was looking at adopting our framework. He has yet to make his final decision.00:52
nixternalcody-somerville: wanna vote?00:53
nixternalI won't hold talking to a GNOME guy against ya :p00:53
cody-somerville+1 :)00:53
* nixternal notes that cody-somerville needs to take a break from some code00:53
AliTabuger7_It was the guy that runs Phoronix. And we use GNOME, so of course you wouldn't.00:54
nixternalAliTabuger7_: CONGRATS AND WELCOME!00:54
fccfWhen is the next Americas Board meeting?00:54
nixternalfccf: we are going to talk about that after this meeting...I would like to do it very soon so we can clear our list00:54
pleia2fccf: two weeks from tonight, same time00:54
nixternaloh, there you go00:54
pleia2hopefully :)00:54
nixternalI didn't even know that one :)00:54
tenachI apologize for not making the meeting sooner :(00:54
fccfpleia2: TY00:54
pleia2we'll update the wiki with the date soon00:55
AliTabuger7_Great! So, i'm a little confused as to what I have to do now...00:55
nhasiantenach, i was wondering where you disappeared to00:55
tenachI'm in the middle of moving and lost track of time.00:55
nhasiantenach, they didnt get through the entire list of member applications so there will be another meeting in two weeks00:55
nixternalAliTabuger7_: I just did it, I added you to the "Ubuntu Members" launchpad team00:56
nixternalwithin the next few days you should have a new email address <lp_id>@ubuntu.com00:56
nixternalAliTabuger7_: join #ubuntu-chicago so we and others can chat in a bit00:56
boredandbloggingmeeting over00:57
pleia2right, so we need to wrap up the meeting00:57
DKcrossnixternal,  no more for today?00:58
boredandbloggingwe'll schedule another one soon00:58
nixternalDKcross: not today unfortunately...today we were hopign to get all of the August people done, but we had members who had to leave or face certain death01:00
tatica1hahahaha01:00
nixternalin 2 weeks...we will have another meeting... jbernard_ will be first and you will follow01:01
DKcrossok:)01:01
fccfquestion about quorum ... LP shows 9 active members... how can 4 be a quorum?01:01
nhasianaight see you guys in about two weeks01:01
nixternalerr, actually nhasian will follow jbernard_ and then you DKcross and then fccf...make sure you guys are ready, so we can bombard you fast and heavy01:02
fccfnixternal: bring it on ... see ya in 2 weeks01:03
nixternaloooh, I like a challenge :)01:03
nhasiannixternal, this is the 2nd time i got bumped.  so third time is the charm :)01:03
nixternalnhasian: did you readd your app to the wiki? cuz it says Sep. 5th01:03
nhasiannixternal, yeah originally i added it several months ago.  i just readded it recently01:04
nixternalahhh, OK, we will have to make sure we fit you in then :p01:05
DKcrossok friends, the i will wait the new date for the meet01:08
fccfAliTabuger7_: Is your B-day 8/21/89 ... I am exactly 10 years your senior01:17
AliTabuger7_nice01:18
fccfCool to know01:18
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huatsdholbach, nxvl hello15:00
dholbachhiya15:00
dholbachdo we have porthose here too?15:00
huatscharlie is not here yet15:00
huatswe might consider to wait for him a bit...15:01
=== asac__ is now known as asac
huatshey porthose15:07
huats:)15:07
huatswe were waiting for you to start :15:07
huats:)15:07
porthosehey huates15:07
huatsnxvl: around too ?15:07
porthosesorry I'm late15:07
dholbachhi guys15:08
porthosehey dholbach15:08
huatsporthose: not a problem..15:08
huatsseems like nxvl is idleing :)15:08
dholbachporthose, huats: let's just get going - nxvl can catch up when he arrives15:14
dholbachcan you maybe sum up what the current state of MOTU Mentoring is?15:14
huatssure15:15
huatsnxvl: may I ?15:15
huatssorry porthose: may I start ?15:15
porthosehuats, please do15:15
huatsok15:16
huatsso the mentoring has received quite a lot of demands in the last few months15:16
huats(I would say of mentor requet)15:16
huatsrequest15:16
huatsand it has started to be quite complicated to be able to match all the demands with a corresponding mentor15:17
dholbachdo you have any numbers? like how many current mentors, how many mentees, how many people on the waiting list?15:17
huatsdholbach  I can out that during the meeting15:17
dholbachno worries - I just wanted to get a feeling for what's happening15:17
huatsI can find out during the meeting (is the corect phrase to read)15:17
huats:)15:18
huatsthe thing is that since it was more complicated to match a mentor/mentee15:18
huatsit started to become more time consuming15:18
huatsand we have started to be a little overwhelmed I think15:19
huatsdue also to our various other involvments15:19
* porthose agrees15:19
huats(I am trying to be as neutral and fair as I can)15:19
dholbachsure15:19
huatsI have tried to fill the gap for some time15:20
huatsporthose did it also after me15:20
huatsnxvl has been a little less involved for some time15:20
dholbachI guess we're always going to need more mentors, we're always going to have more people looking for a mentor, etc.15:20
huats(it is just the result of a discussion we had together)15:20
dholbachwhat do you think is the best help we give new folks who need help?15:20
huatsI do think thet we might first start to reorganize ourself15:21
huatscurrently when we receive a request there is nothing done...15:21
dholbachright15:21
huatsI do think that putting that on a real queue might help us15:22
huatsI am saying that here for the first time (without ever mentionning that to porthose or nxvl)15:22
huatswe should consider to add that waiting list in bzr (like we do so far)15:22
dholbachso you think there's nothing really wrong right now, it's just the reception that needs to change organisation?15:23
huatscurrently the only trackig of the waiting list is the "starred" email in my gmail account on the label "mentoring-reception"15:23
dholbachand maybe a call for more mentors and some fresh blood in the reception?15:23
huatsit is not enought15:23
huatsI have done regular calls for mentors15:23
huatswithout any luck (or very few)15:23
huatsit might be great to ask new motus to be involved in that (throught the MC)15:24
porthosementors are always needed, but yes some additional help with receiption would be nice15:24
dholbachI wonder if we could identify what help new folks need and if we maybe can find a way to help them more easily?15:24
huatsactually I am a bit uneased with the addition of new blood to the reception15:24
huatsI have to say15:24
huatsI mean15:24
huatswe are lacking some organisation so far15:25
huatsand I fear that if we add new people it might be worst...15:25
huatsI do think that new blood might be needed indeed but AFTER a reorganisation of our team work15:25
huatsI know nxvl is planning to help out more right now, and we'll decide of his involvment in the next few months after giving a look at his capability t be involved more15:26
dholbachright now I'm thinking: maybe we can categorise ways in which new folks need help and try to solve those problems differently to get the workload down for current mentors15:26
dholbachlike for example reenergise the motu-mentors list15:27
dholbachor boosting the on-call review idea somewhat (ubuntu-devel@ discussion right now)15:27
dholbachso people can always ask their questions15:27
dholbachand always get their stuff reviewed15:27
dholbachthere's surely going to be some remaining open questions or requests for help, but it might be less than it is right now15:28
dholbachnxvl, porthose, huats: do you think that makes sense?15:28
huatsit is true that we might consider that #ubuntu-motu is sometimes quite similar to questions we should encounter on @ubuntu-mentors15:28
porthoseit would surely help15:29
huatsactually I have some ideas to improve the mentoring program too... or at least so things / way to do  / needs to be done15:30
dholbachmaybe for people who now get on the waiting list, we could tell them about the other current initiatives to they don't feel like they are blocked at the moment15:30
huatsporthose: did you had a lot of answer on your email aboutthe status of mentees ?15:30
huatsdholbach you are right15:30
huatsclearly15:30
porthoseI think four mentors responded15:31
huatsit is really few15:31
huats...15:31
porthoseand one was a request to be removed from the list15:31
dholbachI have similar experiences with questions I asked regularly or mails that are sent regularly15:32
dholbachthere must be a better way of finding out what we're after :)15:32
huatsI do think that currently we (as the reception) have a lack of communication with mentors/mentee15:32
huatsmay be we should define a new way of intreacting15:32
huatslike : asking regular reports from the mentee (like one every 2 weeks) and only 2reports of the mentors15:33
huatssomething brief15:33
dholbachpeople don't like writing reports :)15:33
huatsbut it might help to keep a link15:33
* dholbach nods15:34
huatsI am saying that in order to try to limit the burnout15:34
dholbachright15:34
huatswe (receptionninst) also might need to meet up regulary like we did...15:35
huatsporthose: agree ?15:35
porthoseyes15:35
* huats is really sorry for his really bad writing today (worst that ever)15:35
huatsok15:35
huatshere are some actions we might have :15:36
huatstry to find out new wa of interacting15:36
huatsreorganisation of the reception (queue, meeting)15:36
huatsannounce future mentees to try to find out other actions to do during the process of their application15:37
ScottKPersonally I have no idea where mentors are ineracting with their mentees.  It doesn't seem to be much on #ubuntu-motu.15:37
dholbachthe feeling I get at the moment is that the mentoring doesn't really scale very well - I don't think we ever announced it publicly (like in blogs or something), but as there seems to be demand for help I feel a bit like we should think about how we can provide help more easily15:37
huatsScottK usually mentors / mentee are doing a close relationship15:38
ScottKI'd like to suggest they get encouraged to discuss stuff there (that also gets mentees used to interacting with more than their mentors)15:38
ScottKhuats: Doesn't mean they can't talk in public.15:38
huatsI really agree15:38
ScottKWhen they do so, the people that just watch the channel can learn too15:38
dholbachI could imagine that parts of it is email15:39
huatswe should emphasize that : the mentors/mentee relationship should be string but not exclusive15:39
huats...15:39
ScottKAlso when mentors give bad advice, there are people there to give a quality check.15:39
ScottKSo maybe mentors learn too15:39
porthosetrue15:39
huatsdholbach I do think that the various sessions that happened lately should be great for mentees...15:40
ScottKIt also helps build a sense of community15:40
dholbachhuats: right, that too15:41
huatsmentees should be more than encourage to attend that15:41
huatsit would down the load of the mentors15:42
dholbachwhat do you think about doing a survey with the current mentees and ask them what kind of help they need, what kind of questions they have and what needs to be better?15:42
huatsdholbachsounds great15:43
huatsI also think  it might be great to write a mentor HowTo...15:43
huatsto help mentors to deal with the mentoring is a way to lower their load and to share the experience : using of @ubuntu-mentors, using of #ubuntu-motu instead of private chat15:44
dholbachthat would give us ideas for what we can improve, so there should be less need for mentors and less work for everybody15:44
huatsad things like that15:44
dholbach*nod*15:44
huatsok15:44
dholbachthe reviews on irc and stuff15:44
huatsexactly15:44
huatsreviews are great for mentors15:44
huatsmentees sorry15:45
dholbachI'm happy to help with that survey15:45
huats(well mentors too :))15:45
huatsok15:45
huatsthanks daniel15:45
dholbachand also with some kind of short description of the initiatives we're offering, the docs we have and stuff15:45
ScottKdholbach: Just to mention it, these are all the same reasons I don't like the idea of a separate channel for reviews.15:45
dholbachI could imagine that'd help a lot15:45
huatsACTION : Dholbach to tackle the survey to mentors to know their opinion15:45
dholbachhuats: help with it - not do it alone ;-)15:46
dholbachhuats: I'll send over an email after the meeting15:46
huatsoh I misread :)15:46
huatssorry :)15:46
huatsok15:46
dholbachScottK: I think we can have that discussion separately - I'm just waiting for input from more folks now and think we can try either option and see how it works15:46
huatsporthose: can you work on the survey with daniel ?15:46
ScottKdholbach: That's fine.  I just wanted to mention that I thought there was commonality in the reasons.15:46
porthosehuats, I should be able to15:47
huatsI willbe happy to write the mentors HowTo and to propose a new organisation of the reception15:47
dholbachScottK: what do you mean? I'm not sure I understood the last sentence15:47
huats(of course I am saying that as I will write stuffs to be approved...)15:47
dholbachI'll add it to my todo list and send to all of you15:48
ScottKdholbach: I think that the reasons why it's not a great idea for mentor/mentee discussions to happen off the main channel are similar to why I think reviews off the main channel aren't a good idea.  That's all.15:48
dholbachand then we can see what we think needs to be improved or better documented or announce or something :)15:48
huatsdholbach I agree15:48
huatsI add to my TODO list too...15:48
dholbachScottK: ok15:49
huatsI do think many new mentors might be interested in joining if e can provide a mentors HowTo15:49
huats(new mentors are usually a bit freaked about doing wrong stuffs)15:50
dholbachthat's probably something we can discuss very well on one of the mailing lists15:50
nxvlsorry, i get to much into my code and didn't check the hour15:50
huatsindeed15:50
huatsno problem nxvl15:50
* nxvl reads scroll15:51
huatswe have a  full list of actions for you :)15:51
huats:D15:51
porthoseanother problem I see is that receptions never get contacted when a mentee goes MIA15:51
dholbachthat's probably all I have for now: the survey to identify areas that relieve the mentors somewhat and some better documentation for people who might not find a mentor or be on the waiting list15:52
huatsMIA ?15:53
dholbachdaniel@miyazaki:~$ wtf mia15:53
dholbachMIA: missing in action15:53
dholbachdaniel@miyazaki:~$15:53
huatsok :)15:53
nxvlor Miami Airport15:53
nxvl:D15:54
porthosehahaha15:54
huatsindeed15:54
huatsporthose: it is something to be put on the mentors HowTo15:54
porthosecool15:55
nxvli also remembered to suggest to have some guidelines for metors15:56
nxvlmentors15:56
nxvlas in the steps to guide their mentees trough15:56
nxvlas in "first teach X, then teach Y, then Z" and so on15:56
nxvljust to have as a guide to know what should the mentee know after the programme15:57
huatsnxvl: have you backloggued the whole stuffs ?15:57
huats:P15:57
Riddellis this channel being used in the next hour?15:57
huatsRiddell: no idea15:58
huatsRiddell: do you have a meeting here ?15:58
Riddellwe hope to but we can move to #kubuntu-devel if there's already one ongoing15:58
nxvlhuats: nope, just go trough quickly15:59
porthosehuats, if there is nothing else I have some appointments I need keep15:59
huatsRiddell: I think we are almost good15:59
huatsnxvl: because I was supposed to send a mentors HowTo (well to write one at least)16:00
huatsporthose: sure I think we are good16:00
huatsdholbach ?16:00
huatsanything to add ?16:00
dholbachno, as I said above - that's all I have for now16:02
huatsok16:02
huatsgreat16:02
huatsthen I think we are good16:02
huatsI will send an email with a date for a future meeting date...16:02
Riddellapachelogger, seele, JontheEchidna, Nightrose, rgreening: council ping16:02
huatsto see how far we have been able to work one :)16:03
seeleRiddell: pong16:03
Nightroseo/16:03
apacheloggerhullos16:03
JontheEchidnao/16:03
huatsgood meeting ninjas !16:03
huats:)16:03
rgreeningpang16:03
Riddellthanks all for coming for what was not a very well publicised meeting16:03
Riddellagenda as ever is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings16:04
RiddellI don't think we have anyone for membership?16:04
Riddellfirst agenda item is from me16:05
RiddellI'd like to propose we include the message indicator in Kubuntu by default16:05
RiddellI find it very useful and a large improvement on what went before16:05
apacheloggerisn't it in already?16:05
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: yes, for testing16:05
Riddellyes but thus far only for testing and feedback16:05
rgreeningby include, you mean what exactly?16:05
Riddellrgreening: in the default plasma setup16:06
seelewhat happens after v2 when they change the purpose of the indicator? will there be an option to remove it in karmic +1 if necessary?16:06
rgreeningso, every user has it on by default?16:06
Riddellrgreening: every new install, probably not upgrades16:06
rgreeningI think that's not what we talked about and agreed to at UDS.16:06
seelergreening: i thought it was the notifications that was discussed at uds, not the indicator16:06
Riddellseele: we can indeed.  better of course if we make sure we poke agateau and others to have v2 do what we want it to16:07
rgreeningas it's still very experimental and in development. I wouldn't be happy with it on by default (at this point)16:07
seeleRiddell: that would mean a fork from the ayatana project which doesnt sound reasonable16:07
rgreeninghmm... I was thinking it was the whole Ayatana project scope seele16:07
* ScottK waves16:07
Riddellrgreening: I wouldn't describe it as experimental and in development, as I say it works well.  agateau?16:08
yuriyi haven't seen the MI yet but I don't see why i wouldn't be default16:08
agateauWorks fine for me16:08
ScottKMy recollection is at UDS we discussed having it present by default, but not enabling KDE apps to use it by default16:08
Riddellyuriy: see this blog post for a summary http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/404316:09
* Nightrose is very happy with the way notifications are handled in plasma right now tbh16:09
rgreeningScottK: present, as in in the taskbar or present on the CD and installed16:09
ScottKrgreening: If there are no messages, it should be invisible, so what's the difference?16:09
yuriyRiddell: yes i saw that, i mean i havent seen it in action16:09
agateauNightrose: this is about indicators, not notifications16:10
RiddellScottK: that's not how it currently works, there's no hidden mode16:10
ScottKThe idea was (as I wrote to the ML yesterday), if one is using something like pidgin that unconditionally expects MI, then it ought to just work.16:10
rgreeningScottK: does the "invisible" work now?16:10
ScottKApparently not.16:10
agateauno it does not16:10
Nightroseagateau: eh sorry - that's what i meant16:10
ScottKI don't think it's a big deal to have it in the tray and people who don't want it remove it.16:10
agateauI am worried about having an invisible plasmoid in the panel16:10
agateauhow would user handle this?16:10
agateauseele, what's your opinion on this?16:11
rgreeningRiddell: I'll +1 if a) the invisible works and b) apps are not configured by default to have it enabled16:11
* apachelogger agrees with agateau16:11
seelei'm ok with it being there by default as long as it is still the v1 concept16:11
rgreeninghmm...16:11
seelei have concerns about what htey want to do with v2 and future versions16:11
* rgreening does too16:11
Riddellrgreening: that's not what I'm proposing.  I'm proposing we have it on by default and apps to use it.  it's far better than annoying popup notifications16:11
agateauseele: i was wondering about the invisible or not16:11
ScottKI think the future versions likely actively conflict with some stuff KDE has planned16:12
seeleoh16:12
Riddellit's in KDE SVN by the way http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/kdereview/plasma/applets/message-indicator/16:12
yuriydid quassel patches for MI get in?16:12
ScottKThey did.16:12
rgreeningRiddell: and didn't asiego trash it on the ML16:12
seelewell.. being invisible when there are no messages would better support the purpose of the messge indicator instead of altering the icon16:12
Riddellyuriy: yes although there's some stuff to be fixed in them16:12
ScottKrgreening: No, that was the KDE libs stuff for notifications16:12
rgreeningah16:13
agateauseele: I think I could influence the API to have a "only running apps" flag16:13
Nightroselooking at aaron's comment in the blog linked makes me crinche16:13
seeleagateau: do apps register in kde like they do in gnome? i didnt understand how that worked16:13
seeleso if no apps which use the MI are running, it should definitely be off16:13
rgreeningRiddell: personally, a default on at this point seems a bit pre-mature. THere are still too many questions we all have16:13
seeleotherwise it's useless16:13
apacheloggerhm16:14
seelergreening: to be fair, it is 100% for testing purposes, specifically in combination with the ayatana style notifications16:14
apacheloggeryou know16:14
apacheloggerNightrose got a point there16:14
ScottKWhich comment?16:14
Nightrosethe first one16:14
agateauseele: don't you think it won't be very userfriendly if the user drop the plasmoid on the panel and nothing appears?16:14
rgreeningseele: I agree, but the question at hand is make it default for all users, not "opt in"16:14
apacheloggerthe one were aaron said it is no goody good16:14
apacheloggerTBH I would rather not piss off upstream even further16:15
ScottKNightrose: Link?16:15
apacheloggerme that is16:15
apacheloggerScottK: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/404316:15
seeleagateau: how people add plasmoids is a separate problem, and yes it is a problem16:15
ScottKThanks16:15
seelepart of the problem with upstream is that they only finalized the systray spec last week at tokamak16:15
seeleso there was no way of knowing what they were planning and how to work with them16:15
ScottKseele: Then how is it there are apps in KDE 4.3 using it?16:16
seeleScottK: i dunno, it's still in my unread box :)16:16
* JontheEchidna would rather enjoy upstream not being PO'd at us too16:16
* ScottK thinks this would have been much better as a systray app (and said so all along)16:16
agateauto me indicators are really different from the new system tray spec16:16
* agateau can't remember when ScottK said so16:17
ScottKAt UDS for a start16:17
ScottKOn #ayatana a few times too.16:17
* ScottK even got jumped on by tedg for it.16:18
RiddellI'd rather see all of the plasmoids power, device notifier and message indicator in the systray but that's not how they're coded currently16:18
ScottKYep.16:18
JontheEchidna^Things are looking better in 4.4 for that regard16:18
ScottKI think fundamentally because Ubuntu apps are expecting a MI to exist, we need to ship it.16:18
agateau4.4 will make it possible to run palsmoid in systray16:19
rgreeningIMO, until we resolve some of the key questions, I do not see us making this a default (yet). If we can resolve the issues at hand, its a possibility...16:19
Riddellrgreening: what are your issues?16:19
ScottKPeople use Gnome stuff in Kubuntu and we ought to (as best we can) make that work.16:19
apacheloggerScottK: or the ubuntu apps could be fixed, just like the patches against KDE apps should not expect indication when there is no indicator (as said in my mail from yesterday)16:19
rgreeningRiddell: all the questions we have presented thus far..16:19
apacheloggerall the same for ubuntu apps16:19
ScottKapachelogger: Who'se going to write these patches?16:20
apachelogger*shrug*16:20
ScottKThat's the problem.16:20
ScottKI think they are what they are and we aren't going to change them.16:20
rgreeningIs there a new package of MI?16:21
apacheloggerwell, I suppose we should limit the application of the indicator to that use case for now16:21
rgreeningCurrently mine doesn't behave the way I expect.16:21
apacheloggersee where KDE goes with the systray16:22
apacheloggerand let both mature16:22
ScottKI think that's reasonable.16:22
JontheEchidnayeah, is there a new version of the plasmoid? Mine currently still doesn't bring apps to the front16:22
Nightrose+116:22
agateauJontheEchidna: it depends on the app actually16:22
agateauI fixed the Kopete bug16:22
ScottKJontheEchidna: I think he's stil working on that.  Turn focus stealing prevention off and it should work.16:22
JontheEchidnaagateau: konvi and kmail, neither do anything really16:22
rgreeningKopete doesn't come forward for me16:23
ScottKBug discussion probably doesn't need to happen in the meeting.16:23
agateaurgreening: uploaded a new patchset for this, should be working once it's integrated16:23
* agateau agrees with ScottK16:23
agateaustill, is invisible mode a blocker for you?16:23
ScottKRiddell: Is the kopete systray icon part of this discussion or a separate topic?16:23
rgreeningwell, its hard ot agree to something which doesn't work for me, is my point :)16:23
JontheEchidna^same here16:24
ScottKrgreening: OK, well assuming it gets fixed.16:24
RiddellScottK: I can't see a point in a systray for an app if the message indicator is on16:24
ScottKRiddell: I don't think it should be on by default and it's easy enough for people to hide it if they don't want it in 4.3.16:24
ScottKRiddell: I think what we are ~agreeing to do his is ship MI by default, but not enable it by default in Kubuntu apps.16:25
NightroseRiddell: can i open and hide kopete to send a message and not have it in the taskbar all the time?16:25
rgreening+1 ScottK16:25
RiddellNightrose: with the MI yes16:25
seeleNightrose: you can minimize to systray so it doesnt take up an entry in the task bar16:25
Nightroseok16:25
neversfeldeMI is very confusing when using it with multiple IMAP accounts with lots of folders and I heard many kopete users complain about not having a tray icon. I think bringing in MI by default would confuse a lot of users.16:25
Nightroseseele: yea that's what i was wondering16:25
Nightroseis that still possible16:25
seeleyes16:26
seelethe mi proposal is to remove the systray icon and only access it from the MI16:26
* apachelogger notes that latest default settings have tray icons again16:26
ScottK\o/16:26
seelewhich is inappropriate imo because the MI is an indicator not a message center16:26
Nightrose*nod*16:26
seeleyou shouldnt go to a new message indicator to create a new message or find a buddy or manage kopete16:26
Nightroseright16:26
rgreeningseele: however, in doing that, do we lose the icon functionality - i.e. the right click options? agateau16:26
rgreeningI use the right-click menu al the time16:27
agateaurgreening: yes, there aren't any right click option on the indicator entries16:27
agateauit's probably not for you then16:27
rgreening-1 from me for that16:27
rgreeningwhich is why "default" on would be bad.16:27
Nightrosedito16:27
ScottKrgreening: Having it there by default doesn't mean it has to be enabled for Kubuntu apps by default.16:28
ScottKThose issues are severable.16:28
rgreeningScottK: that's not what I sadi16:28
rgreening:)16:28
ScottKOK.  Wasn't sure.16:29
rgreeningScottK: we were referencing the default on in KDE apps16:29
ScottKOK.16:29
ScottKI think that shold definitely be off.16:29
rgreeningSo, I'm ok with adding the MI, but not with enabling by default in KDE apps16:29
JontheEchidna^me too16:29
rgreeningRiddell: will we vote on the amended proposal then?16:30
RiddellI'm not sure I understand the point, you want an extra icon on the panel which is only useful if people turn on options or run gnome apps?16:30
rgreeningRiddell: not want, but as ScottK indicates, there are Gnome apps which require this... and in order to work under KDE16:31
ScottKRiddell:  I think people should opt in to using it.16:31
ScottKIt's one right-click and a left click to remove it if they don't want it.16:31
rgreeningturning on the integration, and losing functionality is worse IMO. We need to let this mature more. At UDS we all agreed upon an opt-in16:31
agateauit's probably quite late, but maybe we can make clicking on the icon display an explanation of what it is and how to enable it's use in applications16:31
ScottKThat's not a bad idea.16:32
rgreeningagateau: +++++100000000016:32
* agateau hits a high score :)16:32
rgreening:)16:32
* apachelogger notes that by having it there, people who opt in can provide feedback on the general concept and the implementation16:33
apacheloggerso we are not jumping the gun but allow users do it16:33
rgreening+1 apachelogger16:33
* JontheEchidna likes that16:34
apacheloggergotta go ... +1 on having it there by default ... -1 on having it turned on in KDE apps16:34
apacheloggercyas16:34
ScottKRiddell: Does this sound like a reasonable plan?16:34
RiddellI maintain my previous comment16:35
Riddellbut that seems to be the will of the council and community, seele, Nightrose?16:36
rgreeningso, do we need a vote call or are we ok?16:37
seeleRiddell: there seem to be some unresolved issues with it16:37
Nightrosei'm with apachelogger16:37
seelemaking it available but not enabled is the best i could hope for, i dont know if enabling it by default is a good idea16:37
seeleit's ubuntu's fault for making gnome apps not work in KDE without the MI running16:38
rgreeninglol16:38
RiddellI guess that's settled16:38
Riddellnext item I put down is IRC client, are we any closer to deciding on Quassel vs konvi?16:39
ScottKFor IRC client, I'd propose that be deferred.16:39
Riddellyeah you said there's something new coming?16:39
ScottKPost 0.5 rc 1, the quassel devs have been working on fixing usability bugs.16:39
rgreeningI am actually rather enjoying Quassel (not that Ive gotten used to it)16:39
ScottKI've filed for a U/I freeze exception16:39
Riddellok so we'll keep that as "decide before beta"16:40
ScottKAssuming it gets approved, I expect to have this uploaded by Sunday16:40
RiddellJontheEchidna had "KDE3 universe artifacts of an ancient past"16:40
JontheEchidnayus16:40
JontheEchidnaDebian's begun to remove some of the older, unmaintained/orphaned kde3 apps16:40
JontheEchidnaI've been following this using those lovely multidistro tools at qa.ubuntuwire.com16:41
ScottKWe should follow, not lead on this.16:41
JontheEchidnayeah, but we also have quite a few apps not in debian ourselves16:41
ScottKOK.16:41
JontheEchidnawhen/how do we want to deal with these?16:41
ScottKUnless someone has been caring for them, just kill them, IMO.16:41
JontheEchidnaupstream dead 2 years, not really popular = baleet?16:41
ScottKIt'll be interesting to see what happens when the current archive rebuild test gets to K.16:42
JontheEchidnaif old kde3 stuff fails we should just remove 'em, imo16:42
ScottKJontheEchidna: As a MOTU you are fully empowered to ask for cruft to be removed from the archive.  I'd say just do it unless you are uncertain and ask then.16:43
RiddellI already had to fix a compile issue in koffice 1, not fun16:43
JontheEchidnaokie-doke16:43
ScottKAny objections to my suggestion?16:43
Riddelldon't be afraid to cull where it seems sensible16:44
JontheEchidnaany cruft-minded MOTUs are welcome to help me, of course :)16:44
RiddellJontheEchidna had an item "Userconfig vs KUser"16:44
JontheEchidnaYeah, userconfig is on the verge of being accepted into  Main16:44
ScottKI vote for userconfig on the basis of being integrated into systemsettings.16:45
Riddellit's not well integrated, it's still a separate dialogue16:45
JontheEchidnabug 423741, is the MIR, for the interested16:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 423741 in userconfig "[MIR] userconfig" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42374116:45
JontheEchidnaunfortunately that's a limitation for any root-wanting systemsettings module :(16:45
ScottKKuser sitting there by itself is just odd.16:45
JontheEchidnashould be fixable in 10.0416:45
JontheEchidnaassuming KAuth gets python bindings16:46
JontheEchidnaKUser is also not that well maintained16:46
Riddelldo we know or care about the LDAP question?16:46
Riddellyuriy: ^^16:46
Riddellyuriy: also any plans to include it upstream?16:46
ScottKRiddell: I don't think we are particularly enterprise ready at the moment, so if we move Kuser to the dvd for people that need LDAP, I think it's fine.16:47
rgreening+1 from me16:48
rgreeninguserconfig looks better and less cryptic16:48
Riddell+1 too16:48
allee-kScottK: enterprise is IMHO not our target.  IMHO something even simpler than userconfig is the way to go16:48
JontheEchidnafor really simple, users can already change their own passwords in the About Me module.16:49
ScottKAny objections to userconfig on the CD and kuser on the DVD?16:49
* rgreening agrees with JontheEchidna16:49
rgreeningnope16:49
Riddellany other business?16:49
rgreeningnot here16:50
allee-kJontheEchidna: I imagine a combination between about me and userconfig16:50
Riddellthanks for coming all16:50
ScottKRiddell: We can't move kuser until userconfig is promoted.16:51
allee-kindependently userconfig way better than kuser for our desktop target group16:51
RiddellScottK: I think I can do that immediately16:51
ScottKExcellent.16:51
agateauIs it the right time to discuss Ayatana notifications?16:51
rgreeningJontheEchidna: someone shuld write a add new user wizard (which I though would satisfy allee-k) :)16:51
rgreeningehhe16:51
ScottKagateau: Is there some decision you want the community to take?16:52
agateauI would like to know whether my current patchset can go in16:52
ScottKWhat does it do?16:52
* ScottK lost track16:52
* agateau grabs an url16:53
agateauhttp://people.canonical.com/~agateau/plasma-ayatana-notifications/index.html16:53
* rgreening keeps getting notifications and MI garbled :)16:54
ScottKagateau: Did you see my powerdevil question on the ml?16:54
agateauyes,16:54
agateauit would suck if the dialog would still be there after resume16:54
* ScottK is behind on mail. If you answered it, what did you say?16:55
ScottKIt would.16:55
agateauhaven't answered yet16:55
ScottKOK.  Would it still be there?16:55
rgreeningsomeone suggested making the popup nitification last longer16:55
agateauI don't think so16:55
agateaurgreening: this is a good idea, but it won't work with ayatana notifications anyway16:56
rgreeningah16:56
agateauhere is a link to the upstream discussion16:56
agateauhttp://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-core-devel&m=125179433603214&w=216:56
agateaunot really easy to follow in the archives though16:56
rgreeningagateau: what is the liklihood of these patches getting into upstream16:57
agateaubut if you click "next in thread" a few times, you will find some people who agree on dialog-ifying this16:57
ScottKagateau: No one asked the will it be there after resume quesiton IIRC.16:57
agateauScottK: I guess they do not expect it still be there16:57
rgreeningagateau: Im ok with dialog. assuming it can be made to go away or not appear on resume (maybe it already does - can you test)16:57
ScottKIf the dialogue remains after resume, then I think it clearly can't be used.16:58
agateauScottK: rgreening: there is no code behind this for now16:58
agateauthat'll teach me to ask before coding :)16:58
rgreeningah16:58
ScottKagateau: I think this is a case where if you can get it accepted upstream for KDE 4.4, then we (modulo the resume question) do it.16:58
rgreeninglol16:58
agateauseele: what do you think of this, from a ui point of view?16:59
ScottKagateau: I wouldn't want to have to keep this a Kubuntu patch in the long run.16:59
agateauScottK: ok16:59
ScottKagateau: I'd like to understand why it's better than a slightly extended notification when using normal KDE notifications?16:59
ScottKIf upstream takes it, I don't worry too much, but I am curious.17:00
agateauI think it's better because the system is about to perform a very drastic operation, so it should be allowed to warn you in a bit more disruptive way17:00
* seele reads up17:00
seelesorry got a work phone call17:00
agateauIt would also be nicer because of the countdown17:01
agateau(see my mockup on kubuntu-devel@ list)17:01
seelei dont see the question17:01
ScottKCountdown is a good point.17:01
agateauor here:17:01
rgreeningseele: re powerdevil dialog17:01
agateauttp://people.canonical.com/~agateau/tmp/powerdevil-suspend-dialog.png17:01
agateauarf17:01
agateauhttp://people.canonical.com/~agateau/tmp/powerdevil-suspend-dialog.png17:01
agateauseele: I would like to replace one of the  Powerdevil notifications with a dialog17:02
agateauthe one which says that the system is about to suspend17:02
rgreeningagateau: and if count == 0 or button pressed, doalog happliy goes away and power devil continues. excellent.17:02
agateaubecause with ayatana notifications, you don't get actions and can't prevent suspend17:02
agateaurgreening: that's it17:03
seelethe text is fine although that looks like it should be integrated into the logout thing, not a new dialog17:03
rgreening+1 from me on this change. I think upstream would like that assuming it would work with or without ayatana notifications17:03
ScottKagateau: It'd also be nice to have a little bigger target to hit for don't suspend.  My Dell Mini 10v has a crap touchpad and so precision clicking in a short time is hard.17:03
agateauseele: you mean the fullscreen modal thingy?17:04
seeleyeah17:04
agateauScottK: dialog buttons tend to be bigger than notification buttons17:04
seelebut it's better than nothing17:04
seelebut it should be 30 seconds not 1017:04
seele10 is too short17:04
agateauseele: agreed17:04
rgreening+1 on 30s17:04
ScottKseele: 10 is from KDE17:04
agateauthis can probably be fixed in the default-settings package17:04
seeleScottK: i dont care, it's still too short :)17:05
agateauseele: I can investigate using the logout screen, but I am afraid it's going to be more involved than a dialog17:05
ScottKseele: I agree, I just think it'd be good to push there with your usability hat on.17:05
yuriyleft at a bad time. Riddell: yes, in theory17:05
seeleok guys i've got to go17:06
seelei'll check the log and pm for anything you need me to respond to later17:07
Riddellso the whole ayatana notification patch is blocked on this one issue?17:07
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ScottKRiddell: I don't think so.17:07
Riddellso what's the issue for us including it?  why can't we have it as long as agateau maintains it?17:08
ScottKIt didn't seem terribly controversial upstream.  It'd be better if we didn't have to.17:09
rgreening+1 for less patches moving forward. Integrating upstream is a definate plus if we can do it.17:09
Riddellwell it's UI freeze today as I understand it so I think we should include it in Kubuntu if we're going to17:09
ScottKWe're already past UI freeze17:10
Riddellbest get it in fast then :)17:10
agateauI would need a UI freeze exception for Powerdevil,17:11
agateauand for the explanation text in MI17:11
agateauand Ayatana notifications if it does not go in in a very short time :)17:11
ScottKRiddell: You could just committ it to kdesvn and we'd be done.17:11
RiddellI could if there's really no objections upstream17:12
ScottKI'd review the ML thread, but I don't recall any serious objections.17:13
Riddellit's a plan17:13
agateauI am not sure I understand what you want to commit to kdesvn?17:13
ScottKThe powerdevil dialogue17:13
agateauoh ok17:14
agateauI wouldn't dare commiting it without proposing it on plasma@ before17:14
agateauor kde-core-devel@17:14
agateau(because it's not part of Plasma in fact)17:14
ScottKRight, so let Riddell do it.17:15
agateauPlease also remember there is nothing to commit yet17:15
ScottKCertainly17:16
agateauso the plan would be 1. writing it 2. getting it upstream 3. backporting it?17:16
ScottKYes.  With probably a VERY short interval between 2 and 3.17:17
agateauok17:17
agateaucan Ayatana notifications go in before this?17:17
ScottKI think so.17:17
* ScottK isn't the final decider on anything, but I don't see why not.17:18
agateausounds good to me17:18
rgreeningagateau: btw, great work so far on all of this. We do appreciate your time and effort and in listening to our thoughts, discussions, etc.17:19
agateaurgreening: thanks17:19
rgreeningnp17:19
Riddellany other any other business?17:19
ScottKNot from me17:19
rgreeningnope17:19
* rgreening needs to write a FFe for arora 0.9.017:20
Riddellyay, Arora17:20
* rgreening think 'or get someone to do this' haha17:20
rgreening:)17:20
* JontheEchidna has already written 2 FFe's for various things this cycle :P17:20
rgreeningJontheEchidna: then you are old hat at this. Want to copy/paste one for Arora?17:21
JontheEchidnait's really unique to each upgarde17:21
rgreeningJontheEchidna: http://arorabrowser.blogspot.com/2009/08/arora-090.html - bug fixes we require are listed on the blog :)17:22
JontheEchidna"I would like to request a feature freeze exception for" <- There you go :P17:22
rgreeninghaha17:22
rgreeningJontheEchidna: ok. I'll do it. got a bug example I can work from...17:22
JontheEchidnabasically you gotta state the reasons17:23
JontheEchidnaattach a pbuilder log17:23
JontheEchidnaand an install log17:23
JontheEchidnathen subscribe motu release17:23
JontheEchidnaoh, attach the updated package too of coursd17:24
JontheEchidna*course17:24
ScottKJontheEchidna: arora is in Main17:26
JontheEchidnahmm, who to subscribe then?17:27
ScottKubuntu-release17:33
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