| emmajane | mpt, ping :) | 10:43 |
|---|---|---|
| mpt | hello | 10:43 |
| emmajane | mpt, poolie and I had hoped to get your feedback on the latest design for the bazaar site. | 10:44 |
| mpt | emmajane, ah, I saw all the other feedback you'd received and thought you'd think that was quite enough. :-) | 10:45 |
| emmajane | mpt, pfffbt. They're all developers. what do they know? ;) | 10:46 |
| mpt | haha | 10:46 |
| mpt | Well, the target audience for this Web site *is* ~80% developers | 10:47 |
| mpt | It's quite unusual in that way | 10:47 |
| mpt | (though Launchpad has the same property) | 10:47 |
| mpt | Sorry, Thunderbird is being useless at letting me find that design feedback thread | 10:48 |
| emmajane | mpt, We're actually hoping to target non-developers as well. The developers are likely to ignore the front page anyway and come into the site via a side door on Google. | 10:49 |
| emmajane | mpt, http://bazaar-vcs.org/BazaarPersonas | 10:49 |
| emmajane | or just: lp:~emmajane/+junk/dancingmonkeys | 10:50 |
| mpt | ah, thank you | 10:50 |
| emmajane | erm the branch isn't an alternate to the personas. | 10:50 |
| mpt | Yes, Kris is in the ~20% I was thinking of | 10:50 |
| * emmajane nods. | 10:50 | |
| mpt | IT managers, CTOs, those sort of people | 10:50 |
| emmajane | http://www.flickr.com/photos/emmajane/3902988367/ and http://www.flickr.com/photos/emmajane/3903764440 for screenshots, but they don't really give the full context without the window decorations from the browser. | 10:51 |
| emmajane | I've been thinking of the front page as the page for "vulnerable" people who need version control but are sort of afraid of it. | 10:52 |
| emmajane | the programmers and devs and people who like version control will launch past the front page but still need something "friendly" to show their co-workers, bosses, etc. | 10:52 |
| mpt | - Can I trust it? | 10:52 |
| mpt | - Is it better than the alternatives? | 10:52 |
| * emmajane nods | 10:53 | |
| mpt | emmajane, I agree with whoever it was who said that reusing the Bazaar icon for "Extend" was awkward -- I'd go so far as to say that varying the Bazaar logo itself is uncool unless it's actually for a Bazaar variant | 10:53 |
| * emmajane nods | 10:54 | |
| mpt | A big green rounded button seems to be the emerging pattern for downloading software :-) | 10:54 |
| mpt | Other than that, I think the visual design of this revision is much better than the previous one | 10:56 |
| emmajane | cool. | 10:56 |
| emmajane | It would be great to get an illustrator to do actual buttons, but I don't think that's in the current plan. | 10:56 |
| mpt | I also agree with poolie that it would look better if the backgrounds were liquid-width, even if the rest of the site isn't | 10:58 |
| mpt | The "Take a tour..." and "More about..." links could also do with a little bit of graphic treatment | 11:00 |
| mpt | They look a bit lonely at the moment | 11:00 |
| emmajane | I explicitly left the button treatment off those. I don't see how a button fits in nicely on that side of the page without it just looking like I went shopping at the button discount store. Suggestions welcome. :) | 11:02 |
| emmajane | previous versions had them wrapped in a div with a button class but then I changed my mind. :) | 11:03 |
| mpt | Not necessarily a button, maybe just a bullet of some sort | 11:04 |
| * emmajane nods | 11:04 | |
| mpt | ➤ Take a tour | 11:04 |
| emmajane | yeah | 11:04 |
| emmajane | I was thinking yellow arrow on black shape? | 11:04 |
| emmajane | flip the colour scheme but keep the imagery consistent? | 11:05 |
| mpt | that could work | 11:06 |
| mpt | Have you (or has anyone else) got reliable data on developers' current impressions of Bazaar? | 11:07 |
| emmajane | Not me. | 11:08 |
| emmajane | I have exposure to "new" people and people who just want Bazaar to work (mainly through the Drupal community). | 11:08 |
| emmajane | new people are through the three or four conference presentations I've given and Ubuntu documentation team. | 11:10 |
| emmajane | There's definitely the "word on the street" information, but as far as I know there's been no actual/current market research. | 11:11 |
| mpt | In my mailed feedback I mentioned including logos of well-known projects/organizations that use Bazaar | 11:11 |
| mpt | with reference to the Personas page, that would be for Kris | 11:12 |
| * emmajane nods. It was in an earlier design as well. | 11:12 | |
| mpt | I also mentioned including graphs of performance compared with other VCSes | 11:13 |
| mpt | that would be for Randy | 11:13 |
| emmajane | http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0374/ <--- that's the "latest" summary that compares vcses. | 11:13 |
| emmajane | but it's not market research | 11:13 |
| mpt | There's a lot this page has to do, I don't envy you this task :-) | 11:18 |
| emmajane | heh, thanks. :) | 11:19 |
| emmajane | mpt, It's a gateway into more useful mini-homepages. | 11:19 |
| mpt | yes | 11:19 |
| emmajane | It needs to be just enticing enough to get people through the right door. | 11:20 |
| mpt | One maybe-silly possibility that occurs to me is a carousel of the qualities you want to convey, where clicking on each shows you a summary, with a link to those more-useful secondary pages | 11:20 |
| emmajane | at least that's what Ikeep telling myself. | 11:20 |
| emmajane | the carousel at one point was going to start with the "tag line" which poolie isn't fond of and then go through various screen shots. | 11:20 |
| emmajane | it could be made into a more formal "tour" though. | 11:21 |
| emmajane | it was always going to be a link through to something else though. | 11:21 |
| mpt | Bazaar is: _Easy to use_ / _Fast_ / _Supported_ / _Extensible_ / _Free_ | 11:21 |
| * emmajane nods | 11:21 | |
| mpt | ... | 11:21 |
| mpt | You don't mention anywhere on the front page that Bazaar is free! | 11:22 |
| emmajane | it's got the GPL stuff, but it's true I don't use the "F" word | 11:22 |
| emmajane | the license is now also on the copyright line at the very bottom. | 11:23 |
| mpt | I mean free as in zero price | 11:24 |
| emmajane | yup | 11:24 |
| mpt | as opposed to, say, Perforce | 11:24 |
| mpt | or Visual SourceSafe | 11:25 |
| emmajane | updated that text and extended the colour strips to the full width. | 11:33 |
| newz2000 | emmajane: oh, please do use the flying monkeys | 19:50 |
| emmajane | newz2000, :) | 19:50 |
| emmajane | isn't that the awesomest!?? | 19:50 |
| newz2000 | it's up there, that's for sure | 19:51 |
| emmajane | :) | 19:52 |
| emmajane | it's been a long afternoon of me cussing because I'm not a graphic designer or an illustrator. | 19:52 |
| newz2000 | I know that feeling | 19:52 |
| newz2000 | The bazaar logo was me grabbing a pic of an Iowa street sign and running it through inkscape's vectorizing plugin | 19:53 |
| newz2000 | kwwii said it looked like a chinaman taking a leak. :-) | 19:53 |
| * emmajane chuckles. | 19:53 | |
| newz2000 | I'm loving having the design team because now no one expects me to do art. I love it. | 19:54 |
| emmajane | newz2000, at one point I was doing skews on road signs to try and make them straight on intead of "as seen from below" | 19:54 |
| emmajane | newz2000, lucky duck. ;P | 19:54 |
| newz2000 | Despite you're supposed non graphic design / illustration skills, the bazaar site does look good and I'm eager to see it go live. | 19:56 |
| newz2000 | emmajane: will it be drupal based? | 19:56 |
| emmajane | newz2000, thanks :) | 19:57 |
| emmajane | newz2000, plain text. | 19:57 |
| emmajane | if it were drupal there's no way I'd be doing HTML prototypes. | 19:57 |
| newz2000 | oh, I always start w/ html | 19:58 |
| newz2000 | well, i start w/ inkscape, then go to html before doing a theme | 19:58 |
| newz2000 | but maybe I'm old fashioned | 19:58 |
| * emmajane nods. | 19:58 | |
| emmajane | I'm too lazy to change that much about drupal. | 19:58 |
| emmajane | newz2000, any idea if there's a way to center sliding door buttons? | 20:09 |
| emmajane | they're floated so they're always going to be at the edge. | 20:09 |
| * newz2000 thinks it through | 20:09 | |
| emmajane | but if you don't know the width of the text you can't force a width on the parent. | 20:09 |
| emmajane | even a parent div with won't work because of the float on the button.... | 20:10 |
| emmajane | (and without the float the buttons go to the full width of the parent element) | 20:10 |
| emmajane | *logically* the answer is "no"...but I wasn't sure if there was a hack... | 20:10 |
| newz2000 | you have a set number of buttons using sliding doors, you want the group of them to be centered? | 20:11 |
| emmajane | I want individual buttons to be centered below an image. | 20:12 |
| emmajane | so they look like a road sign with text beneath... | 20:12 |
| emmajane | y'know the two-part road signs? | 20:12 |
| newz2000 | gotcha | 20:12 |
| newz2000 | I've not used sliding doors in that scenario, don't know of anything to help | 20:13 |
| * emmajane nods. | 20:13 | |
| newz2000 | maybe if you set the width of your container to be too small | 20:13 |
| newz2000 | and let your button push it out | 20:14 |
| * newz2000 is stabbing in the dark | 20:14 | |
| emmajane | I just uploaded: lp:~emmajane/+junk/dancingmonkeys | 20:15 |
| emmajane | hmmmm. that might work. | 20:15 |
| * emmajane tries that. | 20:15 | |
| emmajane | hm. | 20:16 |
| emmajane | that starts the button at the center instead of centering it. | 20:17 |
| emmajane | i did: width: 1px; overflow: display; | 20:17 |
| newz2000 | emmajane: do you have that posted anywhere or is it in your dancingmonkeys branch? | 20:20 |
| emmajane | newz2000, it's in the dancing monkeys branch. | 20:20 |
| newz2000 | emmajane: where can I look? | 20:21 |
| emmajane | You should be able to do a bzr checkout of the branch, no? | 20:21 |
| emmajane | it's all just static files. | 20:21 |
| newz2000 | yeah, I've got the branch, looking for the sliding doors stuff | 20:22 |
| newz2000 | I like the "skip to extended navigation" | 20:22 |
| newz2000 | I could see that being very useful | 20:22 |
| newz2000 | good use of the mini sitempa in the footer | 20:23 |
| emmajane | thanks :) | 20:23 |
| emmajane | the buttons are appalling, but in theory beuno's graphic designer can redraw them for me. | 20:23 |
| newz2000 | who is Nathan Smith? | 20:24 |
| emmajane | erm. not sure, why? | 20:24 |
| newz2000 | in the source, meta name="author" content="Nathan Smith" | 20:24 |
| newz2000 | Thought maybe that was an alias of yours. ;-) | 20:24 |
| emmajane | oh good grief. | 20:25 |
| * emmajane sighs. | 20:25 | |
| emmajane | the author of 960.gsss? | 20:25 |
| newz2000 | ah. I'll bet there are many sites out there with this then. :-) | 20:25 |
| emmajane | yeah | 20:26 |
| newz2000 | You did something that is very natural here, but if you think about it, may be a bit ironic or humorous | 20:27 |
| * emmajane face palms. I got the *copyright* fixed at least. ;) | 20:27 | |
| newz2000 | before I say it I want you to know you can poke fun at my code any time... | 20:27 |
| emmajane | :) | 20:27 |
| newz2000 | I laughed a little bit because you have an alt tag on the screen shot | 20:27 |
| emmajane | oh you're welcome to find flaw with this. | 20:27 |
| newz2000 | that strikes me as ironic | 20:28 |
| emmajane | ? | 20:28 |
| newz2000 | no, it's a good thing because people may have images turned off even if they can see | 20:28 |
| emmajane | ironic? | 20:28 |
| newz2000 | not ironic, but funny | 20:28 |
| emmajane | plus search engines like them and most importantly blind people wnat to know whta they're missing out on. | 20:28 |
| emmajane | technically I should hvae a longdesc as well. | 20:29 |
| newz2000 | true | 20:29 |
| emmajane | but I'm lazy :) | 20:29 |
| emmajane | ok. I think I might needto find food before I pass out | 20:29 |
| emmajane | it's gone 8:30 here. | 20:29 |
| newz2000 | ok. Have a nice night and weekend. | 20:30 |
| emmajane | thanks :) | 20:30 |
| emmajane | and thanks for answering all of my inane questions :) | 20:30 |
| emmajane | it's much appreciated. | 20:30 |
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