[00:03] <vigo> I went with an Edbuntu on this , seems to work well.
[00:16] <BUGabundo> off to bed
[00:17] <vigo> Sea ya BUGabundo
[00:17] <XmagusX> Has anyone gotten wine/flash audio working once more?
[00:19] <vigo> I have not put windows on this box, yet, but I may later today then I can test that stuff.
[00:20] <crack> hi
[00:20] <crack> i need enter in spanish ubuntu chat
[00:21] <crack> can you help me?
[00:22] <durt> crack, /join #ubuntu-es
[00:22] <crack> thanks
[00:25] <philip> update-manager broke for anyone?
[00:26] <vigo> philip: No, I used the safe-update.
[00:27] <vigo> The GUI one worked after that.
[00:29] <vigo> philip: wait a sec, just looked at logs, update then safe-upgrade, was what I did.
[00:32] <philip> vigo: yeah it's fine now. I just didn't update first
[00:33] <vigo> philip: neato, use the aptitude line?
[00:33] <Bookman> so, how has the alpha 5 experience been for everyone.  I'm just upgrading my test laptop now.
[00:34] <vigo> Bookman: All smooth here.
[00:34] <philip> vigo: yeah
[00:34] <vigo> But I do make backups.
[00:34] <philip> Bookman: smooth here too. A little hiccup with sound, but resolved now
[00:35] <Bookman> excellent.  I'm curious about the wireless.
[00:36] <philip> speaking of wireless...my router finally died, turned a crispy brown in the heat of summer
[00:36] <philip> of course it didn't help that I stacked it on top of an even hotter modem
[00:37] <vigo> I could not yet get a card working, D-Link 650 Extreme, I am working on that now.
[00:37] <philip> the modem is black...router was white.
[00:38] <vigo> I did get it up with a Mobo dongle , is my friends, still working on the D-Link 650 just because I like to see stuff function.
[01:13] <test34> Any work around for the broken nvidia driver ?
[01:14] <durt> bug 429003
[01:14] <test34> thanks
[01:21] <test34> Which repository should I use to have the very latest versions? http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ doesn't seem to have them?
[01:22] <test34> (it doesnt have the eglibc (2.10.1-0ubuntu12) update)
[01:22] <durt> wha? is there a fix out?
[01:22] <test34> it looks like it, 35 minutes ago
[01:24] <durt> my guess would be a few hours, but who knows.
[01:24] <test34> ok
[01:24] <test34> nowhere we can get pre-release?
[01:26] <durt> dude, this is alpha already. and this is an important bug fix. From dev to you in hours is pretty much as fast as it's gonna get.
[01:26] <test34> the latest update also overwrote my /etc/resolv.conf erasing my DNS
[01:27] <test34> durt, yeah that would be very good I'm not complaining, I
[01:27] <test34> I'm just making sure I can't get it now
[01:27] <philip> what a tennis match! (sorry about off-topic)
[01:27] <test34> big boobs bouncing around?
[01:27] <philip> balls
[01:27] <test34> oh
[01:28] <test34> it look like my desktop is also broke, no icons and no right click menu
[01:47] <philip> ok is this scenario doable: routing cable TV signal from one computer to multiple computers on the same network
[01:47] <philip> live multicasting
[01:49] <test34> probably depend on how fast is your server.. would they all watch the same channel ?
[01:50] <test34> if they don't watch all the same channel you might need multiple tv tuners ?
[01:50] <philip> the same channel
[01:51] <philip> gigabit network, multicasting to 3 other computers
[01:52] <philip> I was using VLC to multicast movie files, but not live TV
[01:52] <pwnguin> what's the package name for the gnome applet to start a guest user session?
[01:52] <test34> philip, I think you can do live tv with VLC
[01:53] <test34> my nautilus is broke, is that a known bug?
[01:54] <philip> test34: you are right! damn VLC never ceases to amaze me
[02:00] <test34> philip, good, yeah vlc is greate;)
[02:00] <test34> -e
[02:10] <Bookman> Wow, just upgraded and no problems at all.  Even Broadcom wireless worked
[02:12] <test34> Bookman, lucky you
[02:12] <Bookman> test34, maybe not so much.  cpu at 100%
[02:13] <test34> so far the latest upgrade create 3 problems for me..
[02:13] <test34> I still don't know how to fix the nautilus one (can't start nautilus and don't have any icons on my desktop)
[02:14] <Bookman> On mine, Ubuntu One is at 100% cpu
[02:16] <test34> oh yes I forgot about ubuntu one, it doesn't want to connect
[02:16] <Bookman> AWN does not work
[02:17] <Bookman> I'm going to try a reboot.
[02:17] <test34> I don't use awn
[02:21] <nostahl> gevening guys
[02:21] <nostahl> how's everyone doin
[02:26] <wastrel> koala broke my computer :[
[02:28] <durt> isn't that what it's supposed to do
[02:29] <nostahl> heyey new updates woot .....updating
[02:31] <wastrel> nvidia drivers broken for anyone else ?
[02:32] <durt> bug 429003
[02:38] <wastrel> i had to fix my configuration
[02:43] <bjsnider> durt, you're like a bot, sitting there waiting to respond with that bug
[02:43] <wastrel> it's a good bug
[02:43] <nostahl> heh
[02:44] <nostahl> he's called his girlfriend over to make coffee so he can keep his fingers poised over the ctrl v button heh
[02:44] <wastrel> i only had to reboot 7 or 8 times to get myself up and running agiin
[02:45] <wastrel> speaking of which the delay before showing the user list in the new gdm is 1. annoying and 2. confusing
[02:45] <wastrel> i was staring at that screen and it just had 2 buttons "shutdown" and "reboot"
[02:45] <bjsnider> does fullscreen flash really not work in linux?
[02:45] <wastrel> i was like "hrm i guess i can either shut down or reboot"
[02:45] <nostahl> bjsnider does for me
[02:46] <bjsnider> using which graphics driver?
[02:46] <nostahl> brb ima check a new reboot to see how the changes look for me
[02:48] <durt> bjsnider, ya, can't remember who responded to me with it, but I think it's time to pass the torch.
[02:49] <durt> and time for me to go to bed.
[02:49] <durt> night all
[02:51] <test34> the boot process seem slower with karmic
[02:56] <arand> test34: hmm, haven't checked lately, but then again, karmic's goal was the smooth boot, the 10sec boot is for karmic+1
[02:57] <wastrel> what's smooth boot
[02:57] <test34> arand, smooth boot? does that mean when you see the desktop is completly loaded and usable (because thats what I also notice in karmic)
[02:57] <Dai> wastrel: using kernel mode setting to eliminate the jarring transition from usplash to gdm to gnome
[02:58] <test34> ah ok
[02:58] <Dai> at least that's what i assume they're talking about by smooth boot
[02:58] <arand> And making it look sweet... hopefully
[02:58] <wastrel> i didn't know there was a jarring transition :]
[02:58] <Dai> there's a little flicker
[02:58] <bjsnider> not kms
[02:59] <bjsnider> they will load the x server before the login scren
[02:59] <Dai> ah
[02:59] <bjsnider> kms isn't feasible yet
[02:59] <Dr_Willis> when i get 10+month uptimes.. i am not too worried about 20+sec boot times.. :P
[03:00] <bjsnider> i wouldn't keep a non-workstation system up for 10 months
[03:01] <bjsnider> without ECC RAM, you'd have a hardware problem with errors after awhile
[03:01] <test34> 10 month uptimes is even long for servers
[03:02] <Dr_Willis> i tend to have power outage  once eveyr 4 months anyway :)
[03:02] <test34> Dr_Willis, no UPS ?
[03:02] <Dai> that tends to not be a good thing...
[03:02] <Dr_Willis> Not on this box.
[03:02] <Dai> and evening, doc
[03:02] <bjsnider> server equipment could run for 10 months, but where are the security updates in that time?
[03:02] <arand> Have you seen the proposed boot-looks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcSpkmM36nA&feature=related pretty neat i must say, if they manage to get that in KK.
[03:02] <Dr_Willis> one thing about using laptops as 'desktop' machines.. :) built in battery backups
[03:02] <wastrel> my battery is kindof fried
[03:03] <mjbrooks> hmmm... supposedly there's supposed to be libc6-2.10.1-0ubuntu12 and libc6-i686-2.10.1-0ubuntu12 packages out, but I'm not seeing them, only 0ubuntu11... the broken ones
[03:03] <test34> built-in battery backup but not as easy to replace as a UPS
[03:05] <test34> what's the best video card brand for linux? this isnt the first time I get driver compatibility issues with nvidia...
[03:06] <bjsnider> nvidia is far and away the best
[03:06] <mjbrooks> uhhh.... nvidia
[03:06] <bjsnider> you're using an unstable distro
[03:06] <Dai> ...intel.  but that's probably not the answer you're looking for if you're going to be gaming
[03:07] <test34> bjsnider, it happened to me before with a stable distro where I updated the kernel
[03:07] <Dai> update the kernel, update the driver
[03:07] <bjsnider> won't happen anymore with dkms
[03:07] <Dai> especially if you installed the driver from someplace other than the repos
[03:07] <test34> Dai, there was no compatible updates...
[03:07] <bjsnider> dkms automatically updates the driver now
[03:07] <Dai> nice
[03:07] <bjsnider> rebuilds it with new kernels that is
[03:08] <test34> it cannot always rebuild it, it is closed source
[03:08] <Dai> test34: the kernel module isn't.
[03:08] <bjsnider> yes it can
[03:08] <bjsnider> and it does
[03:08] <test34> well it doesnt rebuild everything
[03:08] <Dai> it doesn't need to
[03:09] <test34> sometimes it does
[03:09] <bjsnider> yes it does rebuild everything
[03:09] <test34> bjsnider, can you send me the whole source code then
[03:09] <Dai> bjsnider: how does that work for a binary blob?
[03:09] <mjbrooks> ah, it's stuck with rothera https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eglibc/2.10.1-0ubuntu12/+build/1244034
[03:10] <bjsnider> you can download the source code yourself
[03:10] <nostahl> hrmm looks like they didnt fix yahoo logins with empathy ... even though they just released a new version of empathy in tonights updates
[03:10] <bjsnider> it's in the install package. unpack it and look in usr/src/nv
[03:10] <test34> bjsnider, it is closed source, or did that change?
[03:10] <bjsnider> the whoel driver is right there
[03:11] <Dai> ah
[03:11] <test34> bjsnider, I mean the driver with 3d acceleration
[03:11] <bjsnider> it is licensed as closed source, but the code isn't secret
[03:11] <mjbrooks> bjsnider, he's talking about nvidia not nv
[03:11] <bjsnider> so am i
[03:11] <test34> bjsnider, if you use the nv driver with your card, you really aren't using your card fully
[03:11] <bjsnider> if you don't believe me, try it yourself
[03:12] <Dai> nvidia != nv
[03:12] <bjsnider> download hte run package and execute it with --extract
[03:12] <bjsnider> then look inside at usr/src/nv
[03:12] <test34> bjsnider, ok I give you $100 if you send me the full source for the nvidia driver
[03:12] <wastrel> nv eh i'm using vesa
[03:12] <bjsnider> hahahaa
[03:12] <test34> (with 3d acceleration)
[03:13] <bjsnider> why, when you can get it yourself?
[03:13] <test34> I believe it is private
[03:13] <Dai> i know the source for the kernel module is there
[03:14] <Dai> but that is not the source for the whole driver.
[03:15] <bjsnider> it is the code that has to be rebuilt when a new kernel is present. that's what dkms does
[03:15] <Dai> that is not the driver
[03:15] <bjsnider> you install the nvidia driver once, and never worry about it again
[03:15] <Dai> that is the kernel module
[03:15] <Dai> that IS open
[03:15] <test34> Closed source is a term for software whose license does not allow for the release or distribution of the software's source code. Generally, it means only the binaries of a computer program are distributed and the license provides no access to the program's source code. The source code of such programs might be regarded as a trade secret of the company. Access to source code by third parties commonly requires the party to sign a non-disclosure agree
[03:15] <test34> ment
[03:15] <Dai> and does have to be rebuilt.  the actual bits that control the functions of the card?  binary.  not open.
[03:16] <bjsnider> i'm not sure i see the point
[03:16] <bjsnider> or i guess the relevance
[03:16] <bjsnider> the original question was about which graphics platform was the best
[03:16] <bjsnider> it's not even close
[03:17] <Dai> no, intel.
[03:17] <Dai> as far as openness and support
[03:17] <test34> the point is that sometimes the driver need to be recompiled to work with the latest kernel
[03:17] <bjsnider> the others aren't even in the big leagues yet
[03:17] <test34> if you don't have the source you can't do it, so you have to wait for nvidia to do it
[03:17] <Dai> test34: no, the kernel module needs to be recompiled
[03:17] <bjsnider> we patch the bits that control kernel compiles
[03:18] <Dai> and you CAN get the source for that.
[03:18] <bjsnider> when necessary
[03:18] <bjsnider> but nvidia always releases updates for that quickly
[03:18] <Dai> yep
[03:18] <bjsnider> they supported the .31 kernel within days of it being released
[03:18] <EruditeHermit> hi can anyone help me with grub2? Before I installed it, I had a timeout, but now grub2 immediately starts the OS. However in the confuguration file, it does have a line that does set timeout=3
[03:18] <test34> I had an intel i810 before, it didn't work great
[03:19] <test34> bjsnider, days is slow, if you could compile it yourself it could be hours
[03:20] <bjsnider> it takes AMD months
[03:20] <bjsnider> unless you use one of the many FOSS drivers, which don't work
[03:22] <test34> never tried an AMD video card, I guess I'll try to avoid them
[03:23] <mjbrooks> test34, that would be your best bet
[03:23] <test34> mjbrooks, AMD video ?
[03:24] <mjbrooks> test34, AMD/ATI  terrible
[03:24] <test34> mjbrooks, what is my best bet?
[03:24] <bjsnider> mjbrooks, which of the many drivers did you try?
[03:24] <mjbrooks> test34, to avoid them (ATI)
[03:24] <test34> ok
[03:25] <mjbrooks> NVIDIA FTW... proprietary or not, they work
[03:25] <test34> so intel or nvidia... I guess I'll stick with nvidia;)
[03:25] <nostahl> ive had great luck with my intel chipset
[03:26] <nostahl> its nice when a company works well with opensource devs
[03:26] <bjsnider> actually the devs work for intel in that case
[03:27] <test34> nostahl, yes I agree they have lots of open source drivers for all kind of hardware
[03:29] <test34> nostahl, which chipset ?
[03:29] <nostahl> 950
[03:29] <mjbrooks> intel gives me warm fuzzies, but for video I still like NVidia ;)
[03:30] <nostahl> i love the intel conventions
[03:30] <Dai> 965 here, and aside from the fun with regressions in jaunty, i've been happy with it
[03:33] <wastrel> my thing is i upgraded, and then my computer was broken
[03:33] <test34> do they make video cards or they only do motherboard integrated  ?
[03:33] <bjsnider> you upgraded to an unstable distro
[03:34] <wastrel> i know ubuntu is broken :]
[03:36] <test34> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/eglibc/2.10.1-0ubuntu12 -> might fix nvidia bug
[03:38] <maccam941> is there a known bug with pulseaudio hogging CPU?
[03:39] <test34> maccam941, I get some apps that use pulseaudio that get 100% cpu (that is just after the sound stop working)
[03:40] <maccam941> all i've got going is firefox and pidgin
[03:40] <maccam941> my laptop will just start getting really hot, and that's my only cue that pulse has lost it
[03:40] <maccam941> it takes up 100% of the cpu, killing it makes it behave again for a while
[03:41] <test34> maccam941, does you sound still work when that happens ?
[03:41] <test34> you->your
[03:41] <maccam941> i don't know, i've had it on mute :-\
[03:42] <maccam941> regardless, it shouldn't grab 100% of the cpu...
[03:43] <test34> maccam941, get a quad core, maybe it will only use 25%... (just kidding)
[03:43] <maccam941> lol, more like 50% (it's a dual core :-P)
[03:44] <maccam941> my other major issue right now is that the window managers keep going bonkers
[03:44] <maccam941> metacity/compiz keep hanging/crashing, and i've got to replace them manually
[03:44] <XmagusX> Does anyone have any information as to the status of sound in wine/wine1.2?
[03:44] <test34> I wish I didn't have to use pulseaudio, it creates problems, but also solves some... so I just have to kill it once in a while
[03:46] <nostahl> man i havnt had a single problem with pulseaudio i feel sorry for all of you guys
[03:47] <maccam941> i think pulse is a good idea, it just sucks when it fails
[03:53] <XmagusX> Pulse is worse that IE.  Having a browser that deeply integrated into the OS is bad enough -- but audio software?  That's just daffy.
[03:54] <IdleOne> does pulse report your audio listening habits ?
[03:55] <Dai> s/software/subsystem
[03:56] <Dai> it's not even remotely similar to IE there
[04:04] <test34> you can even kill pulse and your sound get fixed
[04:09] <EruditeHermit> hi, when you reboot in karmic, does anyone else notice that it never goes to bios post?
[04:09] <EruditeHermit> it just reboots the kernel
[04:11] <arand> EruditeHermit: wat? does it go to grub though?
[04:11] <EruditeHermit> arand, nope
[04:12] <arand> Hm, that's cool, although, I'm not sureI'd like it.
[04:12] <EruditeHermit> usplash does the backward progressbar for shutting down, and then immediately it comes back for starting up
[04:12] <EruditeHermit> its not really cool
[04:13] <EruditeHermit> in practice
[04:13] <EruditeHermit> because you can't choose different grub options
[04:13] <EruditeHermit> unless you shut down
[04:13] <EruditeHermit> arand, do you mind posting your /boot/grub/grub.cfg?
[04:13] <arand> exactly, and ifyou wabt to boot from cd etc,, hmm
[04:14] <arand> man I can't spell right now
[04:15] <maccam941> it's doing kexec now?
[04:15] <EruditeHermit> maccam941, is that meant for me?
[04:15] <EruditeHermit> what is kexec
[04:15] <arand> EruditeHermit: hang on I need to ffire up vbox
[04:18] <maccam941> in relation to the rebooting thing
[04:19] <EruditeHermit> hmm
[04:19] <EruditeHermit> I have kexec-tools package installed
[04:19] <EruditeHermit> is that causing the problem?
[04:19] <EruditeHermit> I don't know how it got installed
[04:19] <maccam94> wifi dropped
[04:19] <maccam94> EruditeHermit: kexec is a kernel option/system call to boot another kernel without doing a full reboot
[04:19] <EruditeHermit> maccam94, I had kexec-tools installed, does that cause the problem?
[04:20] <maccam94> on another note, holy %^& i can finally view saved passwords in Network Manager, instead of just displaying the hash
[04:20] <EruditeHermit> i don't know how it got installed
[04:20] <maccam94> interesting
[04:20] <maccam94> one sec
[04:21] <maccam94> i don't have it installed
[04:21] <EruditeHermit> ok
[04:21] <EruditeHermit> i'll uninstall it
[04:21] <maccam94> idk what you would need it for
[04:21] <EruditeHermit> maccam94, how did you get nm to show passwords?
[04:22] <arand_k> EruditeHermit: http://pastebin.com/f3709290b < grub.cfg
[04:22] <EruditeHermit> arand_k, thanks
[04:22] <EruditeHermit> arand_k, I think it was doing kexec reboots
[04:22] <EruditeHermit> btw, how fast does karmic boot for you guys
[04:22] <maccam94> EruditeHermit: edit connections, edit a connection, go to the wireless security tab, and check Show password
[04:23] <EruditeHermit> it takes well over a minute for me
[04:23] <maccam94> i don't like the new X boot screen
[04:23] <maccam94> it doesn't match the previous screen at all
[04:23] <EruditeHermit> maccam94, when I do that, it gives me a long password that wasn't the one I put in
[04:23] <maccam94> EruditeHermit: i used to get a bunch of numbers and letters (the hash i presume)
[04:23] <test34> EruditeHermit, slow compared to ubuntu stable version (but I don't have exact timings)
[04:23] <arand_k> maccam94: the gdm one?
[04:24] <maccam94> now it asks me to unlock the keyring, and it works when i check the box
[04:24] <maccam94> arand_k: yeah
[04:24] <EruditeHermit> maccam94, i still get the hash
[04:25] <arand_k> maccam94: that's just a broken placeholder, iirc devs mentioning
[04:25] <maccam94> the X splash should appear to continue that boot screen, and then fade the background in
[04:25] <maccam94> oh? linky? (i would be quite relieved if that's the case)
[04:26] <EruditeHermit> ok let me reboot to see if kexec was the problem
[04:26] <EruditeHermit> brb
[04:26] <arand> maccam94: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xsplash/+bug/425720
[04:27] <arand> maccam94: have you seen the proposed boot looks?
[04:28] <maccam94> thanks
[04:29] <test34> arand, have you seen it? (where?)
[04:31] <arand> test34: maccam94: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlCVrtgxVcI&NR=1 for example all suggestion in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Boot
[04:31] <webbb82> i have karmic installed at the moment but i was thinkin bout going back to jaunty so i can install kde with gnome  can karmic have kde and gnome liike jaunty
[04:31] <webbb82> is there any reason to go back to jaunty
[04:31] <maccam94> arand: just found the second link myself, looking at the vid now
[04:32] <EruditeHermit> maccam94, you were right
[04:32] <EruditeHermit> kexec reboot was happening
[04:32] <EruditeHermit> thanks for fixing it =)
[04:33] <maccam94> arand: do you know if that is the leading proposal right now?
[04:34] <arand> Nope, but any of those seem pretty nice
[04:34] <test34> thanks arand, looks alot better then the placeholder;)
[04:34] <arand> maccam94: hmm, seems like my vbox karmic does go through grub on restart.
[04:35] <maccam94> arand: somehow EruditeHermit got kexec-tools installed
[04:36] <EruditeHermit> what is a placeholder?
[04:36] <maccam94> EruditeHermit: something that will be replaced with an actual thing before the final release
[04:36] <EruditeHermit> right
[04:36] <maccam94> oh the X splash screen
[04:36] <EruditeHermit> but what component
[04:36] <EruditeHermit> ok
[04:36] <arand> there is actually a _slightly_ better one that's in the xsplash-team ppa (you'll have to downgrade to their version though)
[04:36] <EruditeHermit> where did you get better o nes?
[04:36] <webbb82> do the jaunty repos work in karmic koala
[04:37] <maccam94> the brown thing with the silver floopy thing
[04:37] <maccam94> webbb82: depends on the app
[04:37] <webbb82> ok  im just having a hard time i f  i should stay with karmic or go back to jaunty
[04:37] <webbb82> just weighing my options
[04:38] <arand> on the ppa one the "throbber" actually looks as if it's not freaky-broken.
[04:38] <EruditeHermit> can you link me to your replacements?
[04:40] <arand> EruditeHermit: There aren't any proper replacements out currently, but th one here is a slight improvement (you need to "downgrade" to this version: https://launchpad.net/~xsplash-team/+archive/ppa
[04:42] <EruditeHermit> cool
[04:42] <maccam94> i don't like the background image though
[04:42] <maccam94> there needs to be some transition between the black boot screen and the desktop
[04:43] <EruditeHermit> I think usplash just needs to go away
[04:44] <EruditeHermit> i don't know why they decided against plymouth
[04:44] <maccam94> EruditeHermit: i think the amount of effort to switch isn't worth the amount of time people will see it
[04:45] <EruditeHermit> well
[04:45] <EruditeHermit> I still see it for 50seconds to a minute
[04:45] <EruditeHermit> =p
[04:45] <EruditeHermit> if they get it down to 10 seconds, i wouldn't mind
[04:45] <EruditeHermit> =p
[04:45] <maccam94> i think i see it for 25-30
[04:47] <EruditeHermit> they said boot would be down to 10s for karmic
[04:47] <maccam94> on specific hardware
[04:47] <EruditeHermit> given that my hardware is a little old, I would have expected 20s
[04:47] <EruditeHermit> 10s on a netbook
[04:47] <EruditeHermit> my hardware is probably better than a netbooks
[04:48] <maccam94> it's also probably more complicated
[04:48] <EruditeHermit> well
[04:48] <maccam94> there aren't that many netbooks, and they all use pretty much the same chipset
[04:48] <EruditeHermit> let me bootchart it
[04:48] <EruditeHermit> see what is happening
[04:48] <EruditeHermit> brb
[04:51] <maccam94> so the facebrowser isn't making it into 9.10?
[04:52] <pwnguin> it's not?
[04:52] <pwnguin> what do i have then?
[04:56] <maccam94> pwnguin: ...that was a question
[04:56] <maccam94> i'm reading through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Boot
[04:56] <pwnguin> i just upgraded my laptop today, there's a name browser currently
[04:56] <pwnguin> donno about faces
[04:57] <maccam94> "added the facebrowser preview by Mat Tomaszewski (although we won't see that in Karmic"
[04:57] <EruditeHermit> maccam94, 53seconds according to bootchart
[04:57] <EruditeHermit> =(
[05:00] <pwnguin> mac, it's a wiki, anyone can add stuff; that quote is part of some mockups by one guy
[05:00] <maccam94> EruditeHermit: any obvious culprits? also try adding fastboot to your kernel line in grub
[05:01] <EruditeHermit> maccam94, what does fastboot do?
[05:01] <maccam94> it was introduced in 2.6.30, it's supposed to do some asynchronous magic when the kernel starts to speed things up
[05:03] <EruditeHermit> maccam94, ok, i'll try that next
[05:03] <EruditeHermit> I think my disk throuput is really bad
[05:04] <EruditeHermit> also I get a warning on boot saying my disk is about to die
[05:04] <EruditeHermit> =(
[05:04] <EruditeHermit> I am going to backup stuff now
[05:05] <maccam94> EruditeHermit: bad sectors?
[05:05] <EruditeHermit> yes
[05:05] <maccam94> how many?
[05:05] <EruditeHermit> hmm
[05:05] <EruditeHermit> how do I find out?
[05:06] <maccam94> click on the little hard disk/exclamation icon in the notification area, and click on your hard disk
[05:06] <maccam94> then click Details
[05:06] <maccam94> find Reallocated Sector Count
[05:06] <EruditeHermit> ok
[05:06] <EruditeHermit> 65537
[05:06] <maccam94> o_O
[05:06] <maccam94> also reallocation count
[05:06] <EruditeHermit> is that bad?
[05:07] <EruditeHermit> 21933326337
[05:07] <maccam94> close the details window
[05:07] <EruditeHermit> write error rate 25150
[05:07] <maccam94> what does it say for assessment?
[05:07] <EruditeHermit> Passed
[05:07] <EruditeHermit> The disk has bad sectors
[05:08] <maccam94> yeah i've got 4 bad sectors, so i don't think it's a big deal
[05:08] <EruditeHermit> ok, but 4 vs 21933326337
[05:08] <EruditeHermit> i think I win
[05:08] <maccam94> i don't get how your disk would pass SMART if you really had that many write errors and bad sectors
[05:08] <EruditeHermit> or lose in this case
[05:09] <Dai> maccam94: not surprising, i just had one die that apparently doesn't support smart
[05:09] <Dai> it's an external though
[05:09] <maccam94> yeah, but the palimpset utility is giving conflicting info
[05:09] <maccam94> if the disk is failing due to bad sectors, don't say that it passes the assessment
[05:10] <maccam94> if the bad sectors aren't a big deal, don't tell me at every bootup that my hard disk is failing
[05:10] <Dai> i only found out about it when it started only mounting intermittently and then i ran fsck on it and it was showing short read errors on more sectors than not
[05:10] <EruditeHermit> well is it failing or not?
[05:10] <EruditeHermit> how do I tell
[05:11] <maccam94> write errors are bad
[05:12] <maccam94> i don't get how your smart isn't failing if you really have that many bad writes
[05:12] <maccam94> 65537 is also a suspicious number
[05:13]  * arand is trying to build the latest xsplash from bzr, to see if there are any news...
[05:13] <maccam94> lol, i love how i can't seem to get any splash whatsoever on my gentoo box
[05:18] <EruditeHermit> maccam94, is it safe to post bootchart results?
[05:18] <maccam94> what do you mean?
[05:19] <EruditeHermit> there isn't info on there that can be used for malicious purposes right?
[05:24] <EruditeHermit> maccam94, also do you know of any good backup programs/utilities
[05:24] <maccam94> EruditeHermit: all it does is say what services you start
[05:25] <maccam94> so unless you're running a server with no passwords you're probably good, and even then someone would have to find your IP
[05:25] <EruditeHermit> maccam94, http://imagebin.org/63901
[05:25] <EruditeHermit> finding my IP isn't hard
[05:25] <EruditeHermit> =p
[05:25] <EruditeHermit> compare that to
[05:25] <EruditeHermit> http://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=ubuntu_910_boot&image=ubuntu_mini9_910_lrg
[05:26] <EruditeHermit> their disk throughput is 74MB/s, mine is 14MB/s max
[05:26] <EruditeHermit> brb going to try a fastboot boot
[05:27] <maccam94> wtf, xulrunner 1.9?
[05:28] <madberry> Joe__: What kind of problems?
[05:28] <Joe__> xserver wont start
[05:28] <Joe__> i have nvidia card
[05:29] <madberry> Joe__: did you install a proprietary drivers?
[05:29] <Joe__> yes
[05:30] <Joe__> it was all working until i updated today
[05:31] <madberry> Joe__: I see you might have to convert back to the nv driver to fix the problem
[05:44] <EruditeHermit> hmm
[05:44] <EruditeHermit> fastboot slowed my boot down
[05:48] <arand> bzr packaging fail... /goodnight
[05:51] <DanaG> hmm, external drives don't often support SMART.
[05:52] <mjbrooks> sheesh and people complain that linux is tough to install and cryptic at times.. yeah right. It's a snap compare to this poor client laptop that's brand new out of the box.
[05:53] <mjbrooks> I'm seriously considering putting Kubuntu on it with KDE4.3 and telling them it's Windows 9
[05:54] <Joe__> lol
[05:54] <Joe__> they wont believe u
[05:54] <Joe__> it will work too well
[05:54] <mjbrooks> lol
[05:54] <EruditeHermit> they'll come back and say, why can't I install applications
[05:54] <EruditeHermit> but other than that, a foolproof plan
[05:55] <mjbrooks> or maybe, call it Windows OSX!!
[05:55] <EruditeHermit> X Windows!
[05:55] <SwedeMike> I bought a new computer the other day with vista on it, took approx 5 hours and 8-10 reboots before it had a fully patched Vista on it. Installing linux on it from usb stick took less than 15 minutes :P
[05:55] <EruditeHermit> it will be closer to truth
[05:55] <mjbrooks> just throw AWN at the bottom
[05:55] <mjbrooks> heh
[05:55] <SwedeMike> and that was with vista being factory installed
[05:56] <EruditeHermit> the factory sucks
[05:56] <EruditeHermit> =p
[05:56] <pwnguin> anyone else have a gray rectangle in the window decoration theme?
[05:57] <pwnguin> i wonder if nouveau is responsible, or just a lack of 3d
[05:58] <mjbrooks> I haven't played with themes much
[05:58] <mjbrooks> but then again, I'm on KDE  not much themes are interesting yet
[05:59] <mjbrooks> I did change from the default though... I hate those radio button window decorations
[05:59] <Joe__> yea
[06:00] <Joe__> i dont like the oxygen them
[06:00]  * mjbrooks is using Bespin   kinda neat actually
[06:05] <mjbrooks> time to see if libc6-2.10.1-0ubuntu12 and libc6-i686-2.10.1-0ubuntu12 made it to the repos yet
[06:07] <mjbrooks> meh... what's the delay?
[06:07] <Joe__> they dont want u to have it
[06:07] <Joe__> :)
[06:09] <EruditeHermit> takes them 6hours after building to sync
[06:09] <EruditeHermit> or some time
[06:09] <EruditeHermit> was 6hrs for something I wanted a while back
[06:10] <mjbrooks> EruditeHermit, Queued 5 hours ago, finished 2 horus ago (took 2 hours, 55 minutes, 10.6 seconds)
[06:11] <mjbrooks> you can downlead it manually, but I'd prefer to apt-get it
[06:13] <EruditeHermit> yeah
[06:13] <EruditeHermit> it takes them some hours to sync with the servers
[06:14]  * mjbrooks jumps up and down anxiously
[06:14] <EruditeHermit> in my experience, many hours
[06:15] <mjbrooks> EruditeHermit, your killing me!!!
[06:15] <EruditeHermit> just download and install it
[06:15] <mjbrooks> lol
[06:15] <EruditeHermit> its the same thing
[06:15] <EruditeHermit> it was a kernel build I was waiting for
[06:15] <EruditeHermit> its the same file
[06:16] <mjbrooks> it won't much with future updates?
[06:16] <mjbrooks> muck
[06:19] <EruditeHermit> nope
[06:19] <EruditeHermit> its the SAME file that gets sent to the mirrors
[06:20] <EruditeHermit> they just can't sync after each build
[06:20] <EruditeHermit> its inefficient
[06:20] <EruditeHermit> so they sync at various points during the day
[06:20] <EruditeHermit> every few hours
[06:20] <EruditeHermit> mjbrooks^^
[06:20] <EruditeHermit> but since its libc6, make sure you have the dependencies
[06:20] <EruditeHermit> =p
[06:30] <mjbrooks> EruditeHermit, hence my hesitation... I'd rather wait, as painful as it is =P
[06:37] <DKcross> hey people
[06:38] <DKcross> http://www.soygik.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/olivia_karmic2_super.png  :D funny  wallpaper, well i think :\
[06:38] <DKcross>  i like it
[06:43] <mjbrooks> cute
[06:46] <eut> hello
[06:46] <mjbrooks> bonjour!!
[06:46] <eut> how can i get flash working?
[06:47] <mjbrooks> on Karmic?
[06:47] <eut> yes
[06:47] <mjbrooks> ubuntu?
[06:47] <mjbrooks> or one of the variants
[06:47] <eut> xubuntu
[06:47] <eut> firefox as well
[06:48] <mjbrooks> I believe... sudo apt-get install xubuntu-restricted-extras
[06:49] <mjbrooks> It was so automagic this time around I honestly didn't even notice
[06:49] <eut> i had more problems then usual this time :/
[06:50] <mjbrooks> really? I'm sorry to hear that
[06:50] <eut> openoffic problem, gcc4.4 + nvidia problem, flash, grub
[06:51] <mjbrooks> ah... so you were bit by the recent glibc6 breaking nvidia issue recently?
[06:52] <mjbrooks> er.. libc6 rather
[06:53] <eut> i'm not entirely sure, but the gcc4.4 and cuda problem
[06:53] <mjbrooks> don't mind me, I'm uber multi-tasking
[06:55] <mjbrooks> sounds different... did you get past it or are you still having issues with it?
[06:55] <eut> http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=99139
[06:56] <eut> wrote a script that modifies the /usr/bin/gcc link to point to gcc-4.3 when i'm compiling stuff :P
[06:57] <mjbrooks> nice
[06:57] <mjbrooks> I haven't had to deal with cuda... at least knowingly
[06:58] <eut> heh
[06:58] <eut> i initially started using karmic because i wanted 64bit and the 9.04 64bit installer kept failing
[07:01] <mjbrooks> oooh... double the fun... 64bit AND Alpha!!
[07:06] <eut> when does karmic officially release?
[07:07] <mjbrooks> End of October
[07:07] <mjbrooks> 29th I believe
[07:08] <eut> ah yes i see it now
[07:08] <Artemis3> eut flash working? thats so simple
[07:08] <eut> Artemis3, yes, got it working with restricted-extras
[07:09] <eut> the package manager failed to install it when firefox prompted me to install flash
[07:09] <Artemis3> you put the .so file in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
[07:09] <Artemis3> done
[07:10] <eut> wat .so file?
[07:10] <eut> what*
[07:10] <Artemis3> no no... restricted will put the 32bit one
[07:10] <Artemis3> remove all that junk
[07:10] <JanC> for flash on a 64-bit system, you should use the alpha plugin from Adobe (which Canonical is not allowed to distribute :( )
[07:10] <Artemis3> ndiswrapper (now its called differently)
[07:11] <JanC> Artemis3: ndiswrapper is for network drivers  ;)
[07:11] <eut> Artemis3, well its working for me now
[07:12] <JanC> eut: the 64-bit alpha version from Adobe is much more stable than the nsplugin-wrapper + 32-bit plugin that Adobe forces Canonical to distribute
[07:12] <Artemis3> yes 64 bit flash from adobe page
[07:12] <Artemis3> you have to hunt and destroy any other libflashplayer.so in your system :)
[07:12] <eut> JanC, how can i get the 64-bit alpha from Adobe?
[07:13] <eut> ugh... where were you both 30 minutes ago -_-
[07:13] <JanC> eut: I was doing other things, sorry  ;)
[07:14] <eut> can i just simply remove the restricted-extras?
[07:14] <eut> or purge them
[07:15] <JanC> purge them should work I suppose
[07:16] <Artemis3> oh yes wrong wrapper :P
[07:16] <Artemis3> nsplugin...
[07:17] <Artemis3> i think it says mozilla in the name now
[07:17] <Artemis3> thing to wrap 32bit plugins, i removed it.
[07:19] <Artemis3> what i do for post install new systems, i mask ubuntu-restricted-extras to install, but before proceeding remove the nsplugin thingie
[07:19] <Artemis3> mark
[07:19] <JanC> anybody else having chrome errors with firefox 3.5 since they provided language packs for it?
[07:20] <Artemis3> File is here: http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html
[07:20] <eut> ok thanks, got it working
[07:20] <Artemis3> oh they did? i downloaded a language pack on my own :)
[07:20] <JanC> or is this only a dutch language pack problem?
[07:21] <Artemis3> i didnt see my language pack at all so i went to mozilla's page and searched for one, and installed that
[07:22] <Artemis3> marked as "experimental" and all, didnt see any problems
[07:22] <JanC> it's in language-pack-<TLD>-base
[07:23] <Artemis3> atm there is none for mine :)
[07:23] <JanC> might be a good idea to try mozilla's language packs instead
[07:23] <JanC> to see if the bug is Ubuntu-specific
[07:30] <MindVirus> I have a list of bugs. 1) podsleuth doesn't recognize my iPod. 2) Pulseaudio crashes every 20 minutes with 100% CPU usage. 3) startupmanager depends on grub but should depend on grub || grub-pc.
[07:30] <MindVirus> For #2 the only way to kill it is -9.
[07:37] <JanC> MindVirus: you sure startupmanager works with grub2?
[07:37] <MindVirus> JanC: almost.
[07:37] <MindVirus> JanC: 99%.
[07:39] <JanC> Artemis3: where did you download separate language packs for firefox?
[07:40] <Artemis3> in the add ons page
[07:40] <Artemis3> search "Dutch Language Pack"
[07:40] <JanC> meh, isn't there  :-(
[07:40] <Artemis3> that should do
[07:42] <MindVirus> JanC: Is it possible to test?
[07:44] <JanC> MindVirus: if you mean if it's possible to test if startupmanager is 100% compatible with grub2, then no idea
[07:44] <Artemis3> now that i see, i cant seem to find one for dutch atm :(
[08:23] <Q-FUNK> could it be that we have a broken gnome-settings-daemon in karmic?
[08:30] <JanC> Q-FUNK: personally I have no issues, but didn't reboot since yesterday
[08:30] <JanC> or re-login
[08:31] <Q-FUNK> here, my left-handed mouse randoml becomes right-handed and left-handed again
[08:39] <JanC> Q-FUNK: that sounds pretty weird  :P
[08:39] <Q-FUNK> it's a typical issue when g-s-d is broken
[08:41] <JanC> although I have seen some mouse-related issues myself where X randomly seems to think single clicks are double-clicks (I didn't report anything yet as I should reboot first though)
[08:43] <sparr> When I leave my computer on overnight, the screen blanks.  When I come back in the morning, I can only get it to 'wake up' by powering the monitor off and back on, or by changing the screen resolution (such as by starting a game or changing to a virtual terminal).  After <1 second the screen blanks again.  The monitor does not power down, nor does it receive no signal.  Help?
[08:49] <Q-FUNK> JanC: that too.  probably g-s-d as well
[08:52] <JanC> sparr: I suggest you file a bug
[08:55] <sparr> JanC: will if october gets much closer and i cant get anyone here to confirm it
[08:57] <JanC> sparr: the earlier you file a bug the better
[08:58] <sparr> I find that to rarely be the case
[08:58] <JanC> sparr: remember that bugfixes need testing too
[08:59] <sparr> yes, and bugs with no explanation or supporting reports don't get tested or fixed
[09:00] <JanC> if you don't report, nobody can confirm them
[09:13] <GobiTheGoblin> Hi there, can anyone help me on failing Nvidia installer? I Got this up and running, with uninstalling it, but now I pressume the log file is gone. But it is saying that there is A confliction with OpenGl driver, and it searching 2 files which one was like this: libnvidia-tls.so.1  from /usr/lib/tls but found them on /usr/lib. This happened late at the installation, in sanity check.
[09:13] <GobiTheGoblin> I pressume there it installs them in wrong directory, or the uninstall was not complete or something... anyone care to take a shot?
[09:22] <vallhalla81> hey there i just upgraded to the beta 9.10 but now when i boot after grub it loads then sits on a black screen some time around the splash
[09:23] <vallhalla81> i have tryed recovery mode in grub and run dpkg and checked the disks but no solution has arived
[09:24] <GobiTheGoblin> vallhalla81: What graphic card do u have?
[09:24] <vallhalla81> any sugestions?
[09:24] <vallhalla81> nvidia
[09:25] <GobiTheGoblin> Yea... i messed my system with it too... but one guy yesterday (my time) solved with changing xorg.conf "driver" drom nvidia to nv
[09:25] <vallhalla81>  GobiTheGoblin: nVidia Corporation GeForce 9500 GT
[09:26] <GobiTheGoblin> failsafe is to "rename" xorg.conf totally, so it loads the basic version
[09:26] <GobiTheGoblin> vallhalla81: try changing the xorg.conf
[09:27] <GobiTheGoblin> vallhalla81: It might just do the trick
[09:27] <vallhalla81> GobiTheGoblin: ok ty
[09:55] <vigo> Is alpha 6 in the update/upgrade or is it a dist thing?
[10:00] <vigo> Nevermind, I just read the MOTD thing, whoops
[10:32] <vigo> If I put the Edbuntu in with the Karmic am I still on Karmic or how do I tell?
 anybody else having chrome errors with firefox 3.5 since they provided language packs for it?
[10:44] <JanC> ^^^ is going to be fixed  ;)
[10:45] <obi1-46> y > !grub2
[10:45] <obi1-46> !grub2
[10:47] <vigo> JanC: I still have FF3.0 and FF3.5 on here, I think.
[10:48] <mac_v> anyone know how to identify the module , my bluetooth is using?
[10:50] <vigo> mac_v: maybe here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=843012&highlight=radio
[10:51] <vigo> That is alot of Audio stuff, but I think the Terminal line is in there for those dongles.
[10:53] <mac_v> vigo: hmm... not about the headset , but i wanted to blacklist bluetooth from loading :)
[10:53] <vigo> wait, maybe not, still looking....
[10:53] <GobiTheGoblin> is it now default that gdm is running in init 3?
[10:53] <mac_v> bluetooth is inhibiting my suspend and hibernate
[11:01] <mac_v> lol , ,its just plain "bluetooth" ;)
[11:01] <vigo> mac_v: Found this: http://fosswire.com/post/2008/10/better-bluetooth-audio/
[11:02] <mac_v> vigo: thanks , :) , but unfortunately i dont use any bluetooth devices :(
[11:02] <mac_v> i wanted to prevent it from loading
[11:03] <eagles0513875> anyone have any documentation or compiling x from source
[11:03] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: problems with nvidia?
[11:03] <eagles0513875> ya GobiTheGoblin im duel booting on a macbook pro and karmic for some reason just doesnt like starting x for me at all
[11:04] <eagles0513875> its a mac specific video card the 9400M
[11:04] <eagles0513875> which in the log it didnt show as supported
[11:04] <eagles0513875> what im not getting though GobiTheGoblin is that jaunty works just fine
[11:04] <vigo> mac_v: Right, so I found that page, undo or look at back pages, is like reverse engineering or something, like do_not_load_XYZ in Ruby.
[11:04] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: Well, I am my self battling with nvidia... and latest updates so really don't know about that..
[11:05] <mac_v> vigo: ah... ok thanks :)
[11:05] <vigo> or Ruby like.
[11:05] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: humm im not much help as  i cant even get a clean install of karmic on a machine but i have one on a vm :( which wont help much
[11:05] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: whats the issue you are having
[11:06] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: After updates nvidia crashed.. so I uninstalled, now i cannot reinstall it comes with error:  http://pastebin.com/m2a5d148e
[11:06] <eagles0513875> ouch
[11:07] <eagles0513875> thing is i tried to install the 185 driver in the repos and that didnt even work what so ever i lost any video to the monitor with it
[11:07] <eagles0513875> so im running the generic nv driver
[11:07] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: yea :D well, i take this like a learning experience :D
[11:07] <eagles0513875> ya
[11:07] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, the nvidia problem... was it a black screen at boot?
[11:07] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: ya afterbooting nothing would show up on the screen
[11:08] <eagles0513875> with out the nvidia-glx-185 driver installed i would at least get to a tty console and can work via command line
[11:08] <mjbrooks> that's a known bug that was introduced with an update to libc6 and libc6-i686
[11:08] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: im on the 64bit version
[11:08] <eagles0513875> O_o
[11:09] <eagles0513875> i just thought of something
[11:09] <mjbrooks> fix released https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-180/+bug/429003
[11:09] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: If you rename xorg.conf you get the defaults...
[11:09] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: there is a blank xorg.conf
[11:09] <eagles0513875> or its non existent form what i have seen in my vm
[11:09] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: Oh dear. well now its over my expertice
[11:09] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: brought up something i didnt know
[11:10] <eagles0513875> libc6 and the i686 32bit version
[11:10] <eagles0513875> i wonder if i install the ia32libs if that would fix anything
[11:10] <mjbrooks> I think it affects 64bit too
[11:11] <eagles0513875> bah
[11:11] <eagles0513875> has a bug been filed against this
[11:11] <eagles0513875> and mjbrooks what bout the newer 185 driver
[11:11] <mjbrooks> fix released, I was waiting on the repos to sync up
[11:11] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, it's for the 185 driver
[11:11] <MindVirus> I have a list of bugs. 1) podsleuth doesn't recognize my iPod. 2) Pulseaudio crashes every 20 minutes with 100% CPU usage. 3) startupmanager depends on grub but should depend on grub || grub-pc.
[11:11] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: will you let me know when they do as i would like to give that a shot and see if it fixes my duel boot issue
[11:11] <mjbrooks> the comment on 180 was in error
[11:11] <eagles0513875> ahhh ok
[11:12] <mjbrooks> oen sec  checking now
[11:12] <mjbrooks> I know it was compiled... the repostory just hadn't synced up earlier and I got dostracted
[11:12] <mjbrooks> distracted
[11:12]  * mjbrooks too much single malt scotch to type  ;)
[11:13] <eagles0513875> what time is it there mjbrooks
[11:13] <mjbrooks> wow... is my ISP doggin tonight
[11:13] <mjbrooks> 3:13a
[11:14] <mjbrooks> you?
[11:15] <eagles0513875> 1215pm here
[11:16] <mjbrooks> I have to ask... where is that?
[11:18] <JanC> 1215pm sounds like continental Europe
[11:18] <JanC> or some parts of Africa...
[11:21] <mjbrooks> apt-get update is taking forever... is there some major server load going on or is it just me?
[11:21] <jpds> mjbrooks: Which mirror are you using?
[11:21] <mjbrooks> us.archive.ubuntu.ocm
[11:21] <mjbrooks> meh
[11:22] <mjbrooks> figures... I say that and it start picking up a bit more
[11:22] <jpds> mjbrooks: us.archive is in London, try picking a closer one from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
[11:23] <mjbrooks> is it?  whoops
[11:23] <Haegin> why is the US archive in the UK? that makes no sense.
[11:23] <mjbrooks> my thought exactly... thanks for the heads up though
[11:23] <jpds> Haegin: Would you like to take the load of several gigabits of bandwidth a second?
[11:24] <jpds> mjbrooks: Anyway, there seems to be a fair number of US mirrors you can pick from.
[11:24] <Haegin> jpds: no, but I'm sure there are datacentres in the US that could
[11:25] <jpds> Haegin: Well, I've myself have tried to ask them if they want to take the pressure, and the answer most give is they can't handle it.
[11:25] <eagles0513875> JanC:  island of malta
[11:25] <eagles0513875> and rest of central europe
[11:25] <jpds> s/them/some datacenters companies/.
[11:25] <Cyberkilla> Hello
[11:26] <Cyberkilla> My last update (this morning) has made the computer unable to reach GDM
[11:26] <Haegin> jpds: oh ok, I wonder if there would be performance increases in setting the mirror to the nearest location at install time.
[11:26] <Cyberkilla> In fact, I don't think it manages to start X at all.
[11:26] <JanC> eagles0513875: CE(S)T is used for most of continental Europe actually (including Belgium where I live)
[11:26] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, yeah the bugfix is there in the repos now
[11:27] <GobiTheGoblin> Cyberkilla: if Nvidia check this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-180/+bug/429003
[11:27] <TheInfinity> Cyberkilla: nvidia graphics? :
[11:27] <Cyberkilla> No xsplash either. I can get it to boot if I change my display driver to NV.
[11:27] <Cyberkilla> Yes
[11:27] <Cyberkilla> Thanks: )
[11:27] <eagles0513875> im in the mediteranean sea on the island of malta JanC
[11:27] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: thanks for the heads up :)
[11:28] <eagles0513875> will try after lunch
[11:28] <mjbrooks> Cyberkilla,  that's the one I was just talking about.. bigfix released and in the repos
[11:28] <Cyberkilla> I did an update just a few minutes ago, but no luck. I'll check again now.
[11:29] <JanC> eagles0513875: I know where Malta is, just wanted to point out that most of Western & Central Europe use the same timezone because that's easier for businesses  ;)
[11:29] <eagles0513875> right
[11:29] <Cyberkilla> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[11:29] <eagles0513875> apologies
[11:29] <JanC> no apologies needed  :-)
[11:30] <mjbrooks> Cyberkilla, it's libc6-2.10.1-0ubuntu12 and libc6-i686-2.10.1-0ubuntu12 that you need
[11:30] <JanC> we're actually up to almost 2 hours away from the "natural" time where I live because of that  ;)
[11:31] <Cyberkilla> mjbrooks, I've had nothing but trouble with the recent nvidia drivers. I've actually been running 185.18.14, because anything more recent will give me artefacts and spontaneous system reboots.
[11:32] <Cyberkilla> But, it was working until last night, when I updated and rebooted my computer.
[11:32] <mjbrooks> Cyberkilla, interesting... well, this particular bug has to do with libc6 even though it showed itself with nvidia
[11:33] <GobiTheGoblin> I got it working =) Finnally :D
[11:33] <GobiTheGoblin> I downgraded those libs and then I reinstalled those nvidia drivers
[11:33] <mjbrooks> GobiTheGoblin, you update to 0ubuntu12 or just followed my workaround on the bug page?
[11:34] <GobiTheGoblin> mjbrooks: workaround.. after that the installation was succesfull
[11:34] <Cyberkilla> mjbrooks: Any idea why it still doesn't work for me? My issue shows itself by repeatedly flickering my screen - almost as if it is constantly trying to change the resolution, failing, then trying again.
[11:35] <mjbrooks> Cyberkilla, flickering is a different issue than the black screen bug
[11:35] <Cyberkilla> Hmm, looks like I'll have to downgrade the packages too. I was hoping I could wait it out.
[11:36] <mjbrooks> Cyberkilla, supposedly the 0ubuntu12 version of libc6 and libc6-i686 resolves it.... I'm about to find out ;)
[11:36] <Cyberkilla> It's not so much flickering as, every few seconds, the screen does what it does when X starts normally (the resolution changes, so I get a little flicker/jump for an instant)
[11:36] <mjbrooks> now that it's propogated to the repositories
[11:37] <mjbrooks> if you have libc6-2.10.1-0ubuntu11 installed than that is probably your issue
[11:37] <mjbrooks> s/than/then/
[11:38] <Cyberkilla> I'll check, but the update manager insists that there are no updates available.
[11:39] <mjbrooks> I forget what the apt command is to check the version installed
[11:39] <mjbrooks> I've been spoiled by having apt-show-versions installed
[11:39] <Cyberkilla> Yeh, I can't seem to memorise them either.
[11:40] <Haegin> anyone know what caused bug 330824 and/or when the fix will arrive?
[11:40] <Cyberkilla> oh
[11:40] <Cyberkilla> I have found libc-dev-bin, which is 2.10.1-0ubuntu11
[11:40] <mjbrooks> just try doing an install of it... it will complain with the version
[11:40] <Cyberkilla> still looking for the actual package
[11:40] <Cyberkilla> okay
[11:40] <GobiTheGoblin> now I have downgraded those libs, do I have to some way lock them so they wont be updated automatically?
[11:40] <mjbrooks> sudo apt-get install libc6
[11:41] <Cyberkilla> Yes, I've found it. It's the bad package
[11:41] <mjbrooks> yes... pin them
[11:41] <mjbrooks> Cyberkilla, your repository might just behind in the sync
[11:41] <Cyberkilla> Ah! I didn't consider that. I do use an obscure one, because it's faster from my location.
[11:41] <mjbrooks> 0ubunutu12 is compiled and being sent our
[11:41] <Cyberkilla> I'll wait
[11:42] <mjbrooks> out
[11:42] <ZzIppo__> Acer Aspire One 531 / Eee 900 /AO D250 / manually partition the disk. partitioning menu, but any changes I make aren't actually applied.!?? "No root file system is defined" message ,, back 2 previos screen,, can"t install,, ,, Alpha 5 September 3rd is ok,!? daily live is fubar,,cant install!?  ,, why what!?
[11:42] <mjbrooks> the good news is it's fixed  ;)
[11:42] <Cyberkilla> : )
[11:43] <Cyberkilla> Lovely, it's available. I've switched to the main UK server
[11:43] <Cyberkilla> Thanks for the tip
[11:44] <mjbrooks> NP
[11:45] <GobiTheGoblin> btw. Is it common knowledge that at least in netbook-remix the partition part of installation is flawed?
[11:47] <GobiTheGoblin> ...should I tell someone about it?
[11:49] <Cyberkilla> Back in a minute, just rebooting to see if it fixed the issue.
[11:49] <vistakiller> any serious problem with karmic?
[11:49] <vistakiller> i am ready to upgrade my kubuntu
[11:50] <GobiTheGoblin> vistakiller: Well, it is a dev version so there is...
[11:50] <ZzIppo__> Alpha5 daily live even Aspire 5100 same 2,, 14 septemper,, UNR and regular Ubuntu daily live fubar,,  dloading 15 septemper,,   any change!?
[11:50] <vistakiller> i know
[11:50] <vistakiller> four years now i upgrade to alpha
[11:50] <vistakiller> to do some bug reports
[11:51] <vistakiller> but i ask because i am boring to fix serious problems :P
[11:51] <GobiTheGoblin> vistakiller: :D I am just a n00b in this, Today my sport was to battle with nvidia =) luckly it was solved
[11:52] <vistakiller> :)
[11:54] <GobiTheGoblin> vistakiller; I don't know if this concerns you but installing it in dual boot may not work
[11:54] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: you installed the nvidia-glx-185 driver ?
[11:54] <GobiTheGoblin> vistakiller: Manual partition in installer do not work, at least with me
[11:54] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: on the alternate cd it works for me
[11:54] <eagles0513875> but then i have issues with boot camp picking up the partition since the only partition i can install grub2 to is the efi partition i have
[11:55] <eagles0513875> :(
[11:55] <vistakiller> i think grub 2 installed only to clean install
[11:55] <vistakiller> is not upgrade
[11:55] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: k, i'll take that one next if I get panicked :D
[11:55] <eagles0513875> heheh
[11:55] <eagles0513875> here goes nothing with my nvidia issue
[11:55] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: lets see if mine gets resolved here as well
[11:58] <mjbrooks> I swear... if comcast sees a torrent running, they are throttling the whole connection
[11:58] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: you install the 185 driver
[11:59] <mjbrooks> trying to
[11:59] <eagles0513875> it installed for me
[11:59] <eagles0513875> running updates atm
[11:59] <mjbrooks> trying to intsll the libc6 that is
[12:00] <GobiTheGoblin> the new libc6 works for me
[12:00] <mjbrooks> stoo[id comcast
[12:00] <mjbrooks> glad to hear
[12:01] <mjbrooks> I'm glad my workaround helped so many while they waited for a fix too
[12:01] <eagles0513875> well hopefully same for me
[12:01] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: what work around was it and where were u yesterday when i was working on this lol
[12:01] <mjbrooks> bwahahaha
[12:01] <mjbrooks> it's listed in the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-180/+bug/429003
[12:02] <Cyberkilla> Well, it worked, sort of.
[12:02] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: :) didnt think anyonw else was having that issue to be honest
[12:02] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, I was probably trying to workaround it ;)
[12:02] <eagles0513875> lol
[12:02] <Cyberkilla> The new libc6 has stopped the problem.
[12:02] <eagles0513875> :)
[12:02] <eagles0513875> good im happy at least
[12:02] <eagles0513875> i can help the mozilla team properly instead of through a vm
[12:02] <Cyberkilla> Unfortunately, the upgrading I did has installed the most recent NVidia driver
[12:02] <Cyberkilla> Which gives me artifacts.
[12:03] <eagles0513875> i installed the 185 version in the repos
[12:03] <Cyberkilla> I'll have to downgrade back to 185.18.14 until they sort it out.
[12:03] <mjbrooks> Cyberkilla, good plan
[12:03] <eagles0513875> Cyberkilla: what version of 185 is in the repos
[12:03] <Cyberkilla> 185.18.36, isn't it?
[12:03] <eagles0513875> also i tried using nvidias drivers and someone told me since i did that that the community wouldnt be able to provide me wiht support
[12:03] <GobiTheGoblin> Cyberkilla: I downgraded libc6 as the workaround suggested, then i reinstalled nvidia without problems
[12:03] <Cyberkilla> I've tried the 190.x.x versions too, but no success. Artifacts, then crash.
[12:04] <GobiTheGoblin> Cyberkilla: sh ./NVID... --uninstall ?
[12:04]  * mjbrooks refills his scotch glass
[12:05] <Cyberkilla> Hmm, I'm not sure what that command does, as I only install from the repository. I should try completely removing all traces, then installing again.
[12:05] <zniavre> hello / bonjour
[12:05] <Cyberkilla> But I'm not entirely sure how to achieve that.
[12:05] <zniavre> i just updated libc6 , can i try to install nvidia driver now or it' still broken ?
[12:05] <GobiTheGoblin> with apt-get remove --purge
[12:05] <GobiTheGoblin> i believe
[12:06] <GobiTheGoblin> zniavre: Here it ok
[12:06] <GobiTheGoblin> it is
[12:06] <Cyberkilla> Ah, I think I've already tried that. For some reason, none of the later drivers work.
[12:06] <Cyberkilla> *for me, that is.
[12:07] <zniavre> GobiTheGoblin,  ok i will try so
[12:07] <zniavre> thank you
[12:07] <GobiTheGoblin> Cyberkilla: sudo apt-get uninstall --purge nvidia-glx nvidia-glx-legacy nvidia-glx-new nvidia-settings
[12:07] <GobiTheGoblin> sudo apt-get remove --purge nvidia-glx nvidia-glx-legacy nvidia-glx-new nvidia-settings
[12:07] <Cyberkilla> Thanks, I'll try that now.
[12:07] <zniavre> you can try remove --purge nvidia*
[12:07] <GobiTheGoblin> But I cannot say whether it works or not, as I use those NVidias onw installer
[12:08] <Cyberkilla> zniavre, that always seemed to select other packages that were not entirely related.
[12:08] <zniavre> let s reboot and see
[12:09] <eagles0513875> :(
[12:09] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: did nothing for me
[12:09] <eagles0513875> :(
[12:10] <Cyberkilla> Wow, his wildcard worked this time.
[12:10] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: darn
[12:10] <eagles0513875> heheh wildcard for the win
[12:10] <eagles0513875> :(
[12:10] <eagles0513875> i dunno y i have a hunch im gonna have to compile x from source with a newer version
[12:10] <eagles0513875> :(
[12:11] <zniavre_> GobiTheGoblin,  it works thank you again
[12:12] <GobiTheGoblin> zniavre_: You are wellcome =)
[12:12] <GobiTheGoblin> *learns to type
[12:12] <Cyberkilla> zniavre, did you install the drivers again? I think my problem is that I'm on a Vaio. In Vista, NVidia would not allow me to install the stock drivers. Apparently, "Sony will provide you with custom drivers, to enable extra functionality"
[12:13] <Cyberkilla> But it's just an 8400M GT
[12:14] <zniavre_> Cyberkilla,  yes just installed again with ubuntu tools (i do not know the name in english sorry)
[12:14] <zniavre_> im with fx550 173.14.20 legacy driver
[12:15] <Cyberkilla> That's okay, thanks anyway
[12:15] <Cyberkilla> Oh, 173..
[12:15] <Cyberkilla> I don't think I can got that far back.
[12:17] <GobiTheGoblin> Have anyone tried to install with Envy? I do not know if it's any good, but as a last resort... ...
[12:18] <eagles0513875> i have a 9400M which doesnt seem to be supported in the version of x that comes with karmic
[12:18] <Cyberkilla> No, in fact, it's the first I've heard of it.
[12:18] <eagles0513875> !info envy
[12:18] <eagles0513875> !envy
[12:18] <eagles0513875> ohhhhh i like that
[12:19] <Cyberkilla> Oh
[12:20] <Cyberkilla> That's what my problem is (I neglected to reinstall nvidia-common). No wonder I can't get jockey to find any drivers now.
[12:20] <GobiTheGoblin> working now?
[12:20] <eagles0513875> sigh
[12:21] <eagles0513875> not for me
[12:21] <Cyberkilla> Well, the list of drivers is coming up; whether installing them is artifact free, I'll know in a few mintues.
[12:21] <eagles0513875> im trying to remove the 185 driver and see if i can get anything with nv
[12:22] <eagles0513875> ~")£%7
[12:22] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: Weird thing that it is not working... 'cause if the xorg.conf is empty it "should" use the defaults
[12:22] <eagles0513875> still nothing but with out the 185 driver i get to a tty console at least
[12:22] <eagles0513875> well i look in the xorg log and in the list of video cards that are supported im not seeing my 9400M
[12:22] <eagles0513875> and those cards are made for macs only
[12:22] <Cyberkilla> Does jockey even bother to update xorg.conf? Whenever I used the damned thing, I always have to set the driver in the conf file manually.
[12:23] <Cyberkilla> Okay, I'll be back in a moment. Thanks again for the help.
[12:24] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: :( nothings working for me
[12:24] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: Where are you now exactly? How far you go with boot etc?
[12:25] <eagles0513875> it boots all the way cept x crashes yet again and takes me to tty1
[12:25] <eagles0513875> iif i hit startx it says at one point fatal server error no screens found :(
[12:25] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: And you use Nvidias own drivers or from repos?
[12:26] <eagles0513875> right now the default nv module
[12:26] <eagles0513875> what ever that is i dunno
[12:26] <eagles0513875> if i have the 185 from the repos i cant even get to tty1
[12:26] <eagles0513875> i have to go into runlevel1
[12:28] <GobiTheGoblin> k. wanna try Nvidias own drivers?
[12:28] <GobiTheGoblin> and installer
[12:29] <eagles0513875> i could but wats the point at this time GobiTheGoblin if its throwing me an error saying no screens found O_O#
[12:30] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: sudo apt-get install --reinstall xserver-xorg ?
[12:30] <GobiTheGoblin> do you have net ok?
[12:30] <eagles0513875> ya im in runlevel 2 but in tty 1 console
[12:30] <eagles0513875> i reinstalled
[12:31] <GobiTheGoblin> and no go?
[12:31] <eagles0513875> no go
[12:31] <mac_v> weird... i get "/dev/sda6 is mounted.  e2fsck: Cannot continue, aborting." and "fsck died with exit status 8" the sda6 is my /home
[12:31] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: what im trying to figure out makes no sense to me cuz the version of x in jaunty works just fine
[12:32] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: Go some safe dir and wget http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/185.18.36/NVIDIA-Linux-x86-185.18.36-pkg1.run
[12:32] <eagles0513875> ok
[12:32] <eagles0513875> man thats a long link
[12:32] <eagles0513875> does that driver support the 9400m
[12:32] <GobiTheGoblin> it doesn't say.. but what you got to lose
[12:33] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: i need the 64bit version btw
[12:33] <GobiTheGoblin> oh
[12:33] <GobiTheGoblin> a sec
[12:33] <eagles0513875> thanks bud
[12:33] <GobiTheGoblin> http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/185.18.36/NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-185.18.36-pkg2.run
[12:34] <cyberkilla> Back
[12:35] <cyberkilla> Damn, it didn't work. I'm still getting artifacts with that driver.
[12:35] <eagles0513875> i got no x cyberkilla so consider urself lucky m8
[12:35] <cyberkilla> Doesn't NV work for you?
[12:36] <eagles0513875> no
[12:36] <eagles0513875> nv drops me down to a tty1 console
[12:36] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: btw have you updated sources and downloaded all recent updates?
[12:36] <eagles0513875> ya will update again after this
[12:36] <eagles0513875> before installling the driver
[12:37] <cyberkilla> Nobody else seems to be reporting the issue I'm having with artefacts in the latest drivers. I've even checked the nvidia forums.
[12:37] <GobiTheGoblin> Have you included pre-released  and unsupported updates?
[12:37] <cyberkilla> It makes me think it's a problem specific to my computer, but I haven't done anything out of the ordinary.
[12:37] <GobiTheGoblin> I think that resent fix is in them
[12:38] <eagles0513875> well im using my local repos
[12:38] <eagles0513875> so not sure if they have been synced with the main ones
[12:38] <GobiTheGoblin> that is how I got the new libc6 working without downgrades
[12:39] <GobiTheGoblin> a sec
[12:39] <eagles0513875> what version is ur libc6 if i saw correctly mine was upgraded to 2.10
[12:39] <eagles0513875> im all upgraded
[12:39] <GobiTheGoblin> yep, and the first one that came was buggy
[12:39] <GobiTheGoblin> later came fix to that
[12:40] <GobiTheGoblin> 2-4h ago or something
[12:40] <eagles0513875> blarg will wait
[12:40] <eagles0513875> how long do syncs take to porpegate to all mirrors and all that
[12:41] <Ian_Corne> depends on the mirror
[12:41] <Ian_Corne> we have a mirror that syncs every day
[12:41] <Ian_Corne> some sync every 6 hourse i guess
[12:41] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: U know how to edit sources.list?
[12:41] <GobiTheGoblin> comment out those backports and pre-releases
[12:41] <eagles0513875> been a while
[12:42] <GobiTheGoblin> /etc/apt/sources.list
[12:42] <eagles0513875> hold on let me see if i get any where with the driver from nvidia
[12:42] <eagles0513875> have the splash screen
[12:42] <eagles0513875> YAY
[12:42] <GobiTheGoblin> but it not good if libc6 is the old version
[12:42] <eagles0513875> its working
[12:42] <eagles0513875> haha
[12:42] <GobiTheGoblin> og
[12:42] <eagles0513875> woohoo
[12:42] <GobiTheGoblin> oh
[12:42] <GobiTheGoblin> :D
[12:42] <eagles0513875> the nvidia driver in the repos is borked
[12:43] <GobiTheGoblin> everything is go?
[12:43] <eagles0513875> ya im logging into the desktop as we speak
[12:43] <eagles0513875> im tempted now to take a risk on something
[12:43] <GobiTheGoblin> gr8 :D
[12:43] <cyberkilla> Are you using NV now?
[12:43] <eagles0513875> no cyberkilla the driver from nvidia
[12:44] <cyberkilla> Hmm, I might have to try that. Whatever is in the repository is faulty for me.
[12:44] <GobiTheGoblin> i'll go to have some lunch, bb for a while ?=
[12:45] <GobiTheGoblin> =)
[12:45] <cyberkilla> : )
[12:51] <GobiTheGoblin> pizza with beer, yummy and unhealthy :P
[12:51] <GobiTheGoblin> cyberkilla: Did you try with nvids own installer?
[12:52] <cyberkilla> Not yet
[12:52] <cyberkilla> Will it require a reinstall every time the kernel updates?
[12:52] <eagles0513875> cyberkilla: repo driver fault for me as well
[12:53] <eagles0513875> cyberkilla: it shouldnt i dont think
[12:53] <cyberkilla> How do I remove if if I change my mind?
[12:53] <eagles0513875> good question
[12:53] <GobiTheGoblin> sh ./NVI.... --uninstall
[12:54] <cyberkilla> Okay, so I need to keep the installer file.
[12:54] <GobiTheGoblin> yep
[12:55] <cyberkilla> Fair enough: ) I'll try it now.
[12:55] <GobiTheGoblin> backup everything as usual
[12:55] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin:  what cyberkilla said regarding updates to the kernel
[12:55] <eagles0513875> do you have to reinstall
[12:55] <GobiTheGoblin> I am not sure
[12:56] <cyberkilla> The ubuntu package uses DKIM to do it automatically, I think.
[12:56] <eagles0513875> hahah thats great feverything is crashing on me all of a sudden
[12:56] <eagles0513875> jockey-kde crashed twice as well as cupsd
[12:56] <cyberkilla> But I'm not sure what the installer will do, especially with regards to hibernation/suspending
[12:56] <cyberkilla> I think I might be a coward and stick with 185.18.14 for now
[12:57] <GobiTheGoblin> cyberkilla: with me it is working
[12:57] <GobiTheGoblin> tough.. i have new kernel too
[12:57] <eagles0513875> what version of the kernel GobiTheGoblin
[12:57] <eagles0513875> im on the last one thats out for karmic
[12:57] <GobiTheGoblin> a sec
[12:57] <eagles0513875> im on 2.6.31-10-generic
[12:59] <GobiTheGoblin> 2.6.31.hmmm uname returns just a custom
[13:00] <GobiTheGoblin> a sec
[13:01] <floating1> 14:57:12 < LutherICE> max sux tbh, well well =)
[13:01] <floating1> oops
[13:03] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: try uname -a
[13:03] <eagles0513875> that should give u more details
[13:05] <GobiTheGoblin> well this is a dead end, but i got the source from repos
[13:05] <GobiTheGoblin> so ...
[13:05] <GobiTheGoblin> what is the newest in there yesterday
[13:05] <eagles0513875> most likelt 2.6.31-10-generic
[13:05] <GobiTheGoblin> it is same series 2.6.31 i know that
[13:06] <GobiTheGoblin> well I rebuilded it last nite
[13:06] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin:  might wanna have u walk me through how to do it
[13:07] <GobiTheGoblin> 2.6.31-custom # SMP it says
[13:07] <GobiTheGoblin> uname -a that is
[13:07] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: gotcha
[13:11] <GobiTheGoblin> Now I am getting to think that I rebuilded that last kernel... so I didn't do anything else but waisted my time...
[13:11] <cyberkilla> :O
[13:11] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: dont say taht
[13:12] <eagles0513875> im sure you removed alot of precompiled hardware stuff that u dont need
[13:12] <eagles0513875> for instance i would like to take out teh compiled amd and ati stuff
[13:12] <GobiTheGoblin> Well, it gives that option tough
[13:12] <cyberkilla> Thing is, if he's running Karmic, isn't there a new version every few days? Doesn't that mean you'll need to recompile again and again?
[13:13] <eagles0513875> well i know for release we will be on 2.6.32 usually the odd numbered kernels are dev kernels
[13:13] <GobiTheGoblin> well if you want to use sources.. yes. and with my laptop (karmic) It takes a whiiiiiiiiiiiiiile
[13:13] <eagles0513875> humm
[13:13] <cyberkilla> There's something else I've been wondering...
[13:13] <GobiTheGoblin> +1h
[13:14] <eagles0513875> ouchie
[13:14] <cyberkilla> In the repositories, there are source packages, and binary packages...
[13:14]  * eagles0513875 needs to learn how to package things
[13:14] <cyberkilla> What are the source packages for? Are those compiled on the fly, specifically for your system?
[13:14] <eagles0513875> cyberkilla: think of them like this the binary packages are like setup.exe in windows and source allow you to tailor the software to the hardware you have
[13:15] <cyberkilla> Instead of just downloading a precompiled generic package? I never understood that.
[13:15] <Dr_Willis>  Not on the fly
[13:15] <Dr_Willis> if you want the source - you can get the source via them
[13:15] <eagles0513875> ?
[13:15] <eagles0513875> and source you compile them for the specific hardware you have
[13:16] <cyberkilla> I see, so I can't just click a button in synaptic and expect it to grab the source and "install" it as normal, but compile first.
[13:16] <cyberkilla> I suppose that's a bit much to ask. I just wondered, because emerge does something like that, doesn't it?
[13:16] <eagles0513875> cyberkilla: command line its sudo apt-get source koffice for example
[13:17] <eagles0513875> that will pull the source package for koffice from the repos
[13:17] <eagles0513875> cyberkilla: it wont install it as normal
[13:17] <eagles0513875> you go through the steps urself
[13:17] <eagles0513875> yourself
[13:17] <cyberkilla> I see
[13:17] <eagles0513875> so ./configure or cmake then make then make install
[13:17] <cyberkilla> Okay, that makes sense.
[13:18] <eagles0513875> basically if you have issues with a program that is currently in the repos you can get its source and compile the save version urself
[13:18] <eagles0513875> *yourself
[13:19] <cyberkilla> Okay, restarting X
[13:19] <cyberkilla> back in a moment
[13:20] <arvind_khadri> hi, lib32asound-plugins is reported to be broken by aptitude, unable to install flash
[13:20] <eagles0513875> arvind_khadri: use ubuntu-restricted-extras to install all the restricted formats from audio to flash to java
[13:21] <mac_v> !logs
[13:22] <arvind_khadri> eagles0513875, they both are the same flash, i had updated earlier today and then aptitude did some conflict resolution..
[13:22] <eagles0513875> strange let me see if i have the same issues on kubuntu give me a sec
[13:23] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875: I think this is it... http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/linux-source
[13:23] <eagles0513875> arvind_khadri: seems to be downloading just ifne here on kubuntu gonna be a lil while till it finishes
[13:23] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: ??
[13:23] <eagles0513875> whats that
[13:24] <GobiTheGoblin> the kernel i rebuilded
[13:24] <eagles0513875> gotcha
[13:24] <eagles0513875> :)
[13:24] <Cyberkilla> Well, the old drivers are still working, so I have 3D acceleration for now.
[13:25] <GobiTheGoblin> Cyberkilla: So something is working :-)
[13:25] <eagles0513875> hehe glad i got mine working
[13:25] <eagles0513875> i was ready to dump linux duel boot all together on my map
[13:25] <eagles0513875> but now its fine :)
[13:25] <Cyberkilla> Empty victory though, as every single update nags me to install the latest drivers. Since they don't work, I have no viable upgrade path, when it comes to my video card.
[13:26] <eagles0513875> Cyberkilla: you try the latest from nvidia site
[13:26] <Cyberkilla> I have Vista, hidden at the front of the disk in a tiny partition. I'm hoping I won't have to use it again.
[13:26] <eagles0513875> bleh
[13:26] <eagles0513875> i couldnt tarnish my macbook pro with duelbooting with windows
[13:26] <eagles0513875> this desktop with vista is enough
[13:27] <Cyberkilla> eagles0513875, I would, but it looks like I need to reinstall every time the kernel updates. Probably not economical when I'm running an Alpha.
[13:27] <eagles0513875> i dont think you do
[13:27] <Cyberkilla> No? Well, I'll look into it later, and see if it's worth trying. I usually end up with ACPI problems when I use the stock driver, but I promise I'll try at some point:)
[13:30] <GobiTheGoblin> I'll have to go to work. bb all and cya =)
[13:48] <vigo> 2 days until A6?
[13:48] <Cyberkilla> : )
[13:48] <Cyberkilla> looks like it
[13:50] <vigo> Sweet, now I can see that Karmic Logo  on boot, looks neato
[13:51] <Cyberkilla> You can? The one without the messed up vertical throbber?
[13:51] <Dr_Willis> id be happy if my sound stopped 'popping'
[13:51] <Cyberkilla> I get that too
[13:51] <Cyberkilla> I know the solution too, I believe
[13:51] <Dr_Willis> 'throbber' ... heh heh heh..
[13:51] <Cyberkilla> They have added another line into the alsa config
[13:52] <Dr_Willis> :P
[13:52] <Cyberkilla> It puts the card to sleep
[13:52] <Dr_Willis> Thats what it sounds like.. card initilizing or somthing..
[13:52] <Cyberkilla> I'm not certain, but that is what I heard on the forum, and I checked it myself.
[13:52]  * Dr_Willis dident even know you COULD put sound cards to sleep.
[13:52] <Cyberkilla> Funny thing is, I don't get it as often in Compiz. It happens much more frequently in Metacity
[13:53] <Cyberkilla> Me neither. It's not fun how they keep adding random lines to my config files! How dare they.:P
[13:55] <vigo> Can I use UbOne to run a site?
[13:56] <edgy> Hi, In my systemsettings, I have an icon called "Other" whereas on another pc it's called Network Manager I think, which one is true and  how can I reset it?
[13:58] <arvind_khadri> eagles0513875, its fixed now...
[14:08] <Cyberkilla> Hmm
[14:08] <BluesKaj> howdy
[14:08] <Cyberkilla> Vigo, I don't think it's meant to work like that.
[14:08] <Cyberkilla> Hello:)
[14:08] <vigo> Thank You Cyberkilla.
[14:15] <Cyberkilla> I rebooted after someone mentioned the new xsplash was released. I'm not seeing it.
[14:17] <arand> Cyberkilla: nah, not yet.
[14:18] <arand> Cyberkilla: there is a slightly better version if you add https://launchpad.net/~xsplash-team/+archive/ppa and downgrade...
[14:19] <vigo> Cyberkilla: Was just a quick blink before the normal, is like a tilted Ubuntu sketch but all Karmic and neato looking.
[14:20] <Cyberkilla> Thanks, I tried that yesterday, but there was nothing to upgrade. Then, I read that whilst it was more recent, it was chronologically an older package than the one in the main repository.
[14:21] <Cyberkilla> I'll try the downgrade: ) I'm interested to see what they are *actually* planning to do, because it looks a bit shabby at the moment. I'm sure that is to be expected, however.
[14:21] <sarmisak> hi all
[14:21] <Cyberkilla> hello
[14:21] <sarmisak> I have a major problem with my bluetooth mouse, I cannot open bt preferences and also when my system starts it asks for granting the bt mouse
[14:22] <sarmisak> even I check 'always allow' it keeps on asking
[14:22] <sarmisak> its a m$ 5000 bt notebook mouse
[14:24] <arand> Cyberkilla: And there are some very nice mockups, e.g: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grc7hNSgtag&hl=en&fs=1&hd=1
[14:25] <arand> Although I'm not sure the'll manage to get it that smooth, but one can always hope... (karmic+1(+1(+1))?)
[14:25] <Dr_Willis> karmic ^2
[14:25] <duffydack> any way to replace the new sound prefs with something more like jaunty yet? or are we stuck with it
[14:26] <Dr_Willis> i dident even notice any new sound prefs
[14:26] <arand> duffydack: you can always run the alsa mixer from terminal
[14:26] <duffydack> arand, not going into it all again but thats not a solution
[14:26] <duffydack> nevermind
[14:27] <arand> But I still haven't found where to edit the specific sounds, atm it seems to be all or nothing, with no config...
[14:27] <Dr_Willis> thats more user friendly :)
[14:27]  * duffydack thinks about trying kubuntu ...
[14:29] <arand> hmm, not yet for me, but i guess when gnome3 gets into ubuntu I'll get on kde for a couple of releases, so things can settle down...
[14:31] <Cyberkilla> The mockups are beautiful. They are relatively simple too.
[14:32] <Cyberkilla> Anybody seen Haiku? Their boot screen is good. A nice, native res logo with 5 icons underneath.
[14:32] <Cyberkilla> The icons fill with colour/light up as the OS boots
[14:32] <Cyberkilla> It's very clean, efficient and it lets you know roughly what it's doing.
[14:33] <Cyberkilla> The worry with Ubuntu is that xsplash will be the same for before AND after login.
[14:33] <Cyberkilla> This makes it seem a bit weird to me. I wonder if it's possible for them to make the xsplash screen after login slightly different, as a visual cue that it's doing something different.
[14:34] <Cyberkilla> Also, since they are starting X early, the "splash" parameter in GRUB is not useful at all. It still loads xsplash, so the console remains hidden.
[14:35] <vigo> I love BeOS, still have an original on my little old AMS Tech
[14:35] <Cyberkilla> wow
[14:36] <Cyberkilla> I'm keeping an eye on Haiku. From what I've heard, the task scheduling system in BeOS was/is revolutionary.
[14:37] <Cyberkilla> And the fact that it doesn't have QT, GTK, GNOME/KDE, ALSA, JACK, X11 and the myriad of other things which provide the same functionality, it looks very appealing to me - and efficient.
[14:39] <Cyberkilla> I'm a sucker for those old interfaces too. I have been searching for a professional-looking "Windows XP Classic" theme for Ubuntu for a while now. It is the pinnacle for productivity, because it isn't ugly, but it isn't beautiful either.
[14:39] <Cyberkilla> I did find a windows 2000 theme, but that one is too old. It has all of those nasty bevels that Windows 98 had.
[14:40] <GobiTheGoblin> offtopic: Have you guys heard about this: http://www.psc.edu/networking/projects/hpn-ssh/
[14:40] <Cyberkilla> I'm going to be ostracized for saying that, aren't I?: )
[14:42] <Cyberkilla> *fast* ssh? Never heard of it, but I want it:) I know it's encrypted, but I'm lucky if I get 20KB/s on my 8Mb/s connection to a dedicated server with no other users. I've obviously set something wrong:P
[14:42] <arand> Cyberkilla: nah, xp set to classic, is definitely a brilliant theme.
[14:42]  * duffydack gives Cyberkilla an ostrick
[14:42] <Cyberkilla> : )
[14:42] <duffydack> ostrich*
[14:42] <GobiTheGoblin> it got me interested too :D
[14:44] <GobiTheGoblin> Cyberkilla: Did u got the 3d working?
[14:44] <Cyberkilla> Yes, I did. I'm afraid that I resorted to using the 185.18.14 drivers, but I'm satisfied for now:)
[14:44] <Cyberkilla> Thanks again for the help, btw.
[14:45] <GobiTheGoblin> Cyberkilla: np =)
[15:03] <GobiTheGoblin> omg.. first time ever, I tried my IR to my laptop and ... it ... is working out of the box... omg.
[15:03] <GobiTheGoblin> I haven't even tried this on windows... threw it to drawer when I bought this :P
[15:04] <eagles0513875> lofl
[15:04] <Cyberkilla> Wow
[15:04] <GobiTheGoblin> shutdown my laptop by mistake thinking well this isn't gonna work :P
[15:04] <eagles0513875> anyone know of an ubuntu channel that works with video drivers as well as xorg stuff for the ubuntu line
[15:05] <eagles0513875> lol GobiTheGoblin
[15:06] <GobiTheGoblin> can't say i do..
[15:11] <ripps> Is gnome-cards gone from the repos? What am I suppose to do without freecell?
[15:11] <Cyberkilla> :O
[15:11] <Cyberkilla> Work?:D
[15:11] <Cyberkilla> hehe
[15:11] <Cyberkilla> I uninstalled them a while ago, to stop distractions:P
[15:12] <Cyberkilla> I have read in the forum that some of those packages were missing. gnometris, I think.
[15:12] <Cyberkilla> I don't think anyone responded though.
[15:12] <ripps> This isn't a work machine, and I needs ma cards!
[15:12] <GobiTheGoblin> there were some others games removed..  but I didn't care about them so much
[15:13] <albert23> ripps: install aisleriot and you get more then only freecell
[15:14] <Cyberkilla> "Every gnome-game has its own package now."
[15:14] <hary> Epiphany 2.26.1 shows bullshit: http://meinbingen.de/picpool/temp/sep09-no-view-meinBingen.de.png ...whats the point?
[15:14] <Cyberkilla> That's what they are saying in the forum.
[15:14] <ripps> Oh... I see, they've all been bundled into one app
[15:14] <Pici> !language | hary
[15:15] <elops> a mount keeps being added to my mtab file, any idea why this might be? i may have added something somewhere a while back that did this, but i cant remember where... it is not in fstab --  http://pastebin.com/d27473af
[15:17] <hary> Pici :  pref. charset 8859-1 / lang: de-de, de
[15:17] <Pici> hary: I mean the cursing.
[15:17] <elops> noone was able to help me
[15:17] <elops> even in #ubuntu-development
[15:17] <hary> ubottu: family friendly?
[15:18]  * duffydack likes kubuntus "kmix" a lot more than ubuntus new method
[15:18] <Cyberkilla> Epiphany is really buggy, it seems.
[15:18] <elops> Pici: may you?
[15:18] <Cyberkilla> They are geared to gecko, but recently ported over to webkit
[15:18] <Cyberkilla> The Webkit isn't a final release yet, afaik.
[15:18] <Cyberkilla> There is an epiphany channel on the gnome server, isn't there?
[15:19] <hary> I'm not cursing -- I dont get you
[15:20] <elops> a mount keeps being added to my mtab file, any idea why this might be? i may have added something somewhere a while back that did this, but i cant remember where... it is not in fstab --  http://pastebin.com/d27473af
[15:21] <hary> what about the topic: no view in Epiphany ?
[15:21] <IdleOne> hary: the BS word you used is considered cursing
[15:21] <hary> google.com or dict.leo.org ... same error
[15:21] <IdleOne> pretend there are 5 year olds here who can hear what your saying
[15:22] <hary> ahhh ...okay
[15:22] <IdleOne> thank you :)
[15:22] <GobiTheGoblin> elops, what is the drives name that you don't want to mount?
[15:23] <hary> topic: no view in Epiphany http://meinbingen.de/picpool/temp/sep09-no-view-meinBingen.de.png
[15:24] <GobiTheGoblin> elops, are you using other mounting progs, pysdm etc.?
[15:24] <hary> Epiphany 2.26.1
[15:26] <hary> Epiphany 2.26.1 shows wron: http://meinbingen.de/picpool/temp/sep09-no-view-meinBingen.de.png ...whats the point?
[15:28] <hary> Epiphany 2.26.1 shows wrong: http://meinbingen.de/picpool/temp/sep09-no-view-meinBingen.de.png ... any idea?
[15:28] <GobiTheGoblin> hary, if I am not wrong it, 2.26.1 uses firefox 2 engine... ?
[15:28] <arvind_khadri> !patience | hary
[15:30] <GobiTheGoblin> hary, I think that is some kind of font problem
[15:30] <hary> GobiTheGoblin : have a hint?
[15:32] <GobiTheGoblin> hary, wait a sec and i try to look up
[15:34] <hary> GobiTheGoblin : thnks a lot 4 help
[15:37] <GobiTheGoblin> hary, is there in Epighany any options regarding script usage?
[15:38] <hary> GobiTheGoblin: I  set in font/colors the following feature  "off": "allow pages to use own fonts" or so
[15:38] <hary> can read now, again
[15:38] <GobiTheGoblin> hary, so solved?
[15:39] <hary> for me at this point: yes
[15:40] <hary> another quest aboutTTF's :
[15:41] <hary> former ubuntu's I place my files in /usr/share/fonts/truetype
[15:41] <hary> after this I have my fonts ... not so in Karmic ... isthis changed?
[15:42] <Dr_Willis> im lazy and put mine in .fonts  but im just a single user on this system.
[15:42] <GobiTheGoblin> there seems to be a fonts dir in /etc/fonts
[15:43] <GobiTheGoblin> cant say really yes or no to that
[15:43] <Dr_Willis> i wouldent think they would to in /etc/
[15:43] <GobiTheGoblin> there is too /usr/share/fonts
[15:43] <Dr_Willis> check one of the truetype font packages and see where it puts them
[15:44] <Dr_Willis> or try 'locate .ttf'   perhaps?
[15:44] <GobiTheGoblin> and /usr/local/share/fonts
[15:44] <wastrel> i upgraded yesterday and it broke my koala
[15:44] <GobiTheGoblin> wastrel, let me guess: nvidia?
[15:44] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. 8800gtsxxx working here.
[15:44] <wastrel> yeah!  :]
[15:45] <Dr_Willis> I need tog et a new video card some day
[15:45] <GobiTheGoblin> wastrel, there was a problem in libc6
[15:45] <wastrel> yeah i read the bug
[15:45] <GobiTheGoblin> wastrel, updated again?
[15:46] <wastrel> no i changed to vesa in xorg.conf
[15:46] <wastrel> i'll update when i get home tonight
[15:46] <GobiTheGoblin> update again it might just do it
[15:46] <wastrel> was interestting, after i switched to vesa nautilus was crashing
[15:46] <GobiTheGoblin> but do not (at least first) try to uninstall those drivers
[15:46] <wastrel> well switching to vesa fixed it so i'm running fine
[15:47] <wastrel> just without compiz.
[15:47] <wastrel> yeah i'll try updating tonight
[15:48] <judgen> Hmm still problems with nvidia.
[15:53] <GobiTheGoblin> have you guys heard anything about that bluetooth? Fixes... etc?
[15:54] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: you think i should try upgrade from grub one to 1
[15:54] <eagles0513875> one to 2
[15:54] <GobiTheGoblin> ty, i'll give a shot =)
[15:55] <eagles0513875> well when doing a clean install of karmic i ran into issues with boot camp for some reason not seeing my karmic partition
[15:55] <eagles0513875> as well as grub2 only wanting to be installed in the efi partition and nowhere else
[15:56] <wastrel> bluetooth i need to remember to blacklist that module
[15:56] <eagles0513875> if i try anywhere else i get an error saying it cant be installed here blah balh blah
[15:56] <wastrel> i should just turn it off in bios, no reason to have that chip sucking power
[15:56] <eagles0513875> wastrel: why not write a script that you run and it blacklists it for u
[15:57] <wastrel> well it's a one-time fix, so a script wouldn't really save any work
[15:59] <eagles0513875> well wastrel it could also benefit others though
[15:59] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: what you think bout my other issue with grub 2 and boot camp
[15:59] <GobiTheGoblin> Don't really have opinion just looking into that.
[16:00] <eagles0513875> thanks :) will brb need to get a bottle of h2O
[16:00] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875, and now I have to run downstairs to play working man game.. .:P
[16:00] <eagles0513875> ?
[16:01] <eagles0513875> ill give it a shot
[16:01] <eagles0513875> if worse comes to worse i know how to fix the video issue
[16:02] <eagles0513875> random question all is there smc support in karmic
[16:05] <BluesKaj> smc ?
[16:12] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875, my grup version is 1.97~beta3
[16:12] <GobiTheGoblin> grub
[16:16] <knittl> hi, is it save to upgrade initscripts?
[16:16] <knittl> because it tries to remove *a lot* of other packages
[16:17] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: your not on mac hardware are u by any chance duel booting on a macbook pro
[16:18] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875, no sry
[16:18] <eagles0513875> thats what im worried about
[16:18] <eagles0513875> screw it ill give it a shot
[16:18] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875, look this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Grub2Testing
[16:22] <eagles0513875> this makes utterly no f** sense
[16:24] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875, not working i assume..
[16:25] <eagles0513875> it is
[16:25] <eagles0513875> but then again i havent fully removed grub 1
[16:25] <eagles0513875> i need to run update-from-grub-legacy but i have no idea where to do it from
[16:27] <vistakiller> i just upgrade to kubuntu 9.10
[16:27] <vistakiller> all the programmes works fine
[16:27] <vistakiller> the only problem is that i dont have sound in flash player
[16:27] <vistakiller> any idea?
[16:28] <sunshinepants> which flash plugin are you using
[16:28] <vistakiller> the official
[16:29] <GobiTheGoblin> how did you install it?
[16:29] <vistakiller> i have upgrade from kubuntu 9.04
[16:29] <vistakiller> i think is upgrade and flash player
[16:29] <vistakiller> first i have some problem with the sound and in other programmes
[16:30] <vistakiller> i have done something strange to work the sound
[16:30] <vistakiller> i go to system settings and i put first pulseaudio to sound
[16:30] <vistakiller> and after i put the sound card again
[16:31] <vistakiller> i have sound now in all the programmes expect flash
[16:31] <GobiTheGoblin> I don't have lot of time right now, but check this out: http://webupd8.blogspot.com/2009/09/how-to-install-flash-player-10032-right.html
[16:31] <vistakiller> ok thanks
[16:31] <vistakiller> and asoundconf is not work anymore
[16:31] <[31d1]> random question I came across trying to debug my kind of hosed system: is there _supposed_ to be an 's' at the bottom of /lib/init/upstart-job
[16:32] <vistakiller> they have remove it
[16:32] <[31d1]> line 46 is just 's'
[16:38] <Usambara> hello
[16:40] <zniavre> damned i crashed again
[16:42] <vistakiller> is better to remove pulseaudio?
[16:50] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: what was the link to that nvidia bug you linked me earlier
[16:50] <AlanBell> just had a karmic update and restart
[16:50] <AlanBell> no network manager running now
[16:51] <Usambara> AlanBell: sudo dhclient eth0 will help you
[16:52] <AlanBell> it does indeed
[16:53] <AlanBell> has it been reported already?
[16:53] <Dark-Star> what's the best way of getting WLAN to work with (x)ubuntu-9.10? my card is detected as wlan0 but it seems I need to configure it manually somehow? the nm-applet is not really working for me...
[16:54] <[31d1]> i did an upgrade and restart, and booting hangs on samba trying to start. and 'initscripts and upstart' are being held back, which sounds suspiciously why that sort of thing would happen :)
[17:01] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875, No that was for the grub and macbook pro compatibility
[17:02] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: im talking bout that nvidia bug u linked in launchpad
[17:03] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875, u need it?
[17:04] <eagles0513875> im trying to justify the means of using the driver from the nvidia website and why it should be in karmic
[17:04] <GobiTheGoblin> http://webupd8.blogspot.com/2009/09/how-to-install-flash-player-10032-right.html
[17:04] <GobiTheGoblin> sry
[17:04] <GobiTheGoblin> not that
[17:04] <GobiTheGoblin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-180/+bug/429003
[17:04] <GobiTheGoblin> i think it was that
[17:05] <eagles0513875> thats it GobiTheGoblin thanks
[17:05] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875, np =)
[17:05] <wastrel> my space bar on my keyboard isn't working well :[
[17:06] <GobiTheGoblin> wastrel, use suck-o-matic 2000 to clean it ;)
[17:06] <GobiTheGoblin> wastrel, sry. bad joke
[17:06] <eagles0513875> hahah fail GobiTheGoblin
[17:08] <wastrel> i need to pop the keycap off and clean the crud out from under it yeah
[17:22] <Mike1> why does smb:// not work in my Ubuntu Karmic? :-(
[17:22] <wastrel> do you have samba installed
[17:22] <Mike1> good question
[17:22] <eagles0513875> GobiTheGoblin: today you are my saviour :)
[17:23] <GobiTheGoblin> eagles0513875, ty :D
[17:24] <GobiTheGoblin> Mike1, samba isn't installed at least on my laptop
[17:24] <GobiTheGoblin> Mike1, ...by default I mean
[17:25] <Mike1> yes, just installing stuff
[17:25] <GobiTheGoblin> Mike1, I just installed it too, it works in here
[17:26] <Mike1> installed samba or Ubuntu?
[17:26] <GobiTheGoblin> samba
[17:27] <Mike1> comes on my bug-list :-)
[17:28] <GobiTheGoblin> I don't think its preinstalled in other distros too..
[17:28] <Mike1> yes, but the nautilus error message is meaningless
[17:28] <Mike1> it even recommends an other viewer xD
[17:29] <GobiTheGoblin> k, that =) yea it would be nice to give headsup
[17:31] <Mike1> „Failed to retrive share list“ when i try smb:/// (or „Network“ in „Places“) and select my workgroup there
[17:33] <GobiTheGoblin> Mike1, Here it went ok.. smb:///
[17:33] <wastrel> smbclient -W DOMAIN -L server-name
[17:33] <GobiTheGoblin> found printers and shares (two groups)
[17:36] <Mike1> wastrel: works
[17:36] <Mike1> but not with smb://mikespc or smb://192.168.0.15
[17:36] <Mike1> in nautilus
[17:37] <wastrel> well i don't know hwo the gnome stuff works :]
[17:37] <Mike1> interessting
[17:37] <Mike1> now it works oO
[17:37] <Mike1> strang
[17:37] <Mike1> e
[17:37] <wastrel> k-rad
[17:38] <GobiTheGoblin> :D
[18:05] <henrik__> there seems to be some breakage in karmic today, with people being unable to get into X. Are there any temporary fixes around?
[18:06] <wastrel> bug 429003
[18:07] <henrik__> hm, I suppose my mirror hasn't received the fix yet
[18:07] <wastrel> nvidia driver prob.  changing xorg to use nv instead may fix
[18:07] <wastrel> i used vesa
[18:07] <henrik__> changing to nv didn't fix it for me
[18:07] <[31d1]> bug 430125
[18:07] <wastrel> try vesa that got my x working.
[18:07] <[31d1]> is happening to me
[18:08] <henrik__> I think my update held back upstart too
[18:09] <[31d1]> i dunno if that's what's doing it - but I don't even get as far as X trying to start
[18:09] <henrik__> me neither, but if I go into a terminal and start it manually, it freezes
[18:09] <[31d1]> ah
[18:10] <henrik__> using nvidia, with nv I get slightly further, but X terminates after loading the desktop, not much helpful in the log.
[18:10] <eagles0513875> henrik__:
[18:10] <eagles0513875> was doing that for me too bud
[18:11] <henrik__> mmh, and this recovery mode is just giving me one terminal, and not letting me use screen :/
[18:11] <[31d1]> i haven't tried that, vt1 is hung at 'starting samba daemons' ... i'm just rolling around in another terminal hoping to find something
[18:11] <eagles0513875> henrik__: wget the latest nvidia driver from the nvidia website
[18:11] <eagles0513875> i had that issue and after installing that driver it worked
[18:13] <eagles0513875> its a weird fix i know
[18:15] <henrik__> it must be something other than video drivers, as it crashes with vesa too
[18:16] <knittl> hi, i need help with upgrading
[18:16] <knittl> i'm already on karmic
[18:16] <eagles0513875> henrik__: try the latest version of the nvidia drivers
[18:16] <eagles0513875> knittl: whats wrong
[18:16] <knittl> i have two packages held back (initscripts and upstart)
[18:16] <eagles0513875> knittl: run sudo apt-get dist-upgrade to update them
[18:16] <knittl> ok, great
[18:16] <eagles0513875> henrik__: for some reason with nv driver it was showing nothing but a tty and not picking up my monitor but after installing hte nv driver its picking it up now
[18:16] <knittl> The following packages will be REMOVED: rsyslog ubuntu-minimal
[18:16] <knittl> The following packages have been kept back: initscripts upstart
[18:16] <knittl> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
[18:17] <knittl> is this safe?
[18:17] <eagles0513875> not sure to be honest
[18:17] <henrik__> there is some breakage at the moment, initscripts and upstart can't be updated
[18:17] <[31d1]> that's better than what I get when i try to do aptitude full-upgrade
[18:18] <MindVirus> I don't know why but I am updating just so I can break my system.
[18:18] <knittl> henrik__: yep, something is wrong there. that is why i came here to ask
[18:18] <[31d1]> i got the same problem. but it wants to do http://ix.io/hD , which is definitely bad news
[18:19] <henrik__> knittl: your system is probably broken as ours now, so if you're in X, you might not get back if you restart
[18:19] <MindVirus> [31d1]: No that's safe. You can do that. :P
[18:19] <xcdfgkjhgcv> FFS my system is fucked.
[18:19] <knittl> henrik__: oh, great :D
[18:19] <BluesKaj> well, archive.ubuntu is unreachable when i try to update yet I can chat
[18:19] <[31d1]> lol
[18:19] <knittl> [31d1]: yeah, i got that too today. but after another a-g update i can't install either (initsc. or upstart)
[18:19] <durt> ya, syslog is broken for me now, as is gdm/X, some networking (pppoe) has to be started by hand.
[18:20] <knittl> but that's the fun of alpha's :D
[18:20] <[31d1]> yeah
[18:20] <MindVirus> henrik__: when will it be unbroken?
[18:20] <henrik__> these kind of breakages are unusual though
[18:20] <knittl> where's my fork?
[18:20] <MindVirus> henrik__: is it safe to upgrade without dist-upgrade?
[18:20] <henrik__> MindVirus: I wish I knew..
[18:20] <BluesKaj> yeah, I'm on irssi, ...my X works ok, but the keyboard and mouse aren't working at all
[18:20] <durt> MindVirus, when the devs fix it.
[18:20] <[31d1]> i'm just relieved that other people have the  same problem
[18:20] <MindVirus> durt: Any ideas when this will be? 24 hours?
[18:20] <durt> no
[18:20] <henrik__> BluesKaj: ah, that's similar to what happened to me. I restarted after my keyboard froze
[18:20] <xcdfgkjhgcv> FFS major ext4 problems and now this!
[18:20] <[31d1]> my only fear is i get broken and no one else does :)
[18:21] <knittl> ah there. yummi
[18:21] <MindVirus> [31d1]: I know exactly what you mean.
[18:21] <MindVirus> That should be channel topic.
[18:21] <knittl> so, how long should i wait before attempting an upgrade method?
[18:21] <BluesKaj> I think the last updates broke a lot of ppl's setups
[18:21] <durt> newtopic: yes, we're all broken too.
[18:21] <[31d1]> heh
[18:21] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Change "may break your system" to "will break your system"
[18:22] <henrik__> has anybody come any closer to what causes the problem? maybe reverting some package will do
[18:23] <MindVirus> A few hours till fixes.
[18:23] <MindVirus> Says cjwatson in #ubuntu-devel.
[18:23] <[31d1]> sweet
[18:23] <knittl> awesome :)
[18:23] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I'm going to hold back from installing new versions of Ubuntu until the actual release next time.
[18:24] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I hope iwconfig doesn't be a pain and lets me connect to my WLAN
[18:24] <BluesKaj> henrik I think HAL is in the mix somewhere and the kernel modules are to blame for this mess I think. I received alot of kernel problem messages
[18:24] <henrik__> a few hours is a looooong time :)
[18:24] <MindVirus> henrik__: better than 3 years.
[18:24] <[31d1]> i'm not the brightest bulb in the bunch, but running prereleases teaches me tons
[18:24] <durt> xcdfgkjhgcv, ya, but who's gonna test the alphas for _your_ specific setup.
[18:24] <xcdfgkjhgcv> [31d1]: Like to stay away?
[18:24] <henrik__> did anybody ask the devels for temporary solutions?
[18:25] <MindVirus> [31d1]: or hate every programmer ever?
[18:25] <BluesKaj> never had this happen with other alphas ...only when I screwed something up personally
[18:25] <MindVirus> (Not that I do. It's just a valuable lesson.)
[18:25] <cjwatson> henrik__: to which problem? (I ask because I just joined but I'm dealing with a problem I suspect people here may care about)
[18:25] <MindVirus> cjwatson: same thing I asked about.
[18:25] <xcdfgkjhgcv> cjwatson: A Karmic update has just fucked all of our PCs.
[18:25] <SKB> what's responsible for automount? :|
[18:25] <MindVirus> The ubuntu-minimal issue.
[18:25] <[31d1]> mostly about how to debug things better and learn more about how things work :)
[18:26] <henrik__> cjwatson: I'm not sure where the problem is
[18:26] <MindVirus> [31d1]: report your first bug yet?
[18:26] <[31d1]> yeah, i did!
[18:26] <BluesKaj> cjwatson:  it seems most of us have serious problems right now , devices not working
[18:26] <cjwatson> xcdfgkjhgcv: while Karmic is certainly broken, let me be clear that you must *always* review the list of packages to be removed when upgrading through development releases
[18:26] <MindVirus> [31d1]: I'm proud. :)
[18:26] <cjwatson> if you don't, your computer(s) will break
[18:26] <[31d1]> it was eventually a dupe, but it was a good one
[18:26] <MindVirus> Awww.
[18:27] <MindVirus> You haven't posted your first non-dupe yet?
[18:27] <cjwatson> the core problem at the moment is that builds happened out of intended order and we've ended up in a situation where we can't build a package that upstart pre-depends on (mountall) in order to get things back in order
[18:27] <cjwatson> one of our sysadmins is setting things up so that we can build it semi-manually, and then we need to promote mountall to main, and then things should get back into shape
[18:28] <[31d1]> cjwatson: would that be the cause of booting hanging well before X even starts?
[18:28] <cjwatson> [31d1]: very likely
[18:28] <henrik__> cjwatson: how does that cause the problems though? old upstart is incompatible with some changes?
[18:28] <[31d1]> cool
[18:28] <cjwatson> henrik__: we've just landed a whole suite of changes to completely reorganise the boot process
[18:28] <cjwatson> they were intended to land pretty much in one lump
[18:28] <cjwatson> unfortunately, they didn't quite
[18:28] <henrik__> cjwatson: thanks for the information
[18:29] <dto> total Karmic breakage. 1. todays kernel and/or network-manager updates broke networking. could not get ANY network devices to show up besides loopback. 2. decided to wipe clean and install from alpha 5 dvd, bizarrely FSCK fails on first post-installation bootup, then system dies at login on subsequent boots and is completely unusable. 3. installed jaunty again, but it refuses to upgrade to karmic (error during calculation of upgrade)
[18:29] <MindVirus> cjwatson: You are an awesome developer who talks to his users. Thank you.
[18:29] <dto> i'm about ready to give up on karmic
[18:29]  * [31d1] agrees with MindVirus 
[18:29] <henrik__> this is the first time karmic has broken on me, so I'm pretty happy with it
[18:29] <cjwatson> dto: fsck failure: probably bug 427822, fix for ext4 will land for alpha 6, fix for ext3 sometime later
[18:29] <MindVirus> In general, developers are a shy bunch that only talk amongst themselves.
[18:29] <MindVirus> The only way to talk to a dev is to file a bug report.
[18:30] <cjwatson> MindVirus: time :-/
[18:30] <MindVirus> cjwatson: eh?
[18:30] <cjwatson> dto: the upgrade problems are (we hope) being sorted
[18:30] <BluesKaj> yeah, except for the network management being so flaky now..even wicd isn't doing wifi so well
[18:30] <dto> cjwatson: ok :) thank you
[18:30] <cjwatson> MindVirus: if you aren't at least somewhat reclusive, you never have time to actually write any code :-/
[18:30] <[31d1]> oh yeah, i forgot i had to go back to the last kernel to get a network connection - but that might just be me being dumb
[18:31] <MindVirus> cjwatson: I know what you mean. It is understandable. I am a dev too (but not as hardcore as you). Furthermore, I'm not complaining.
[18:31] <MindVirus> cjwatson: well, I am.
[18:31] <xcdfgkjhgcv> FFS I'm struggling to get a wireless connection using iwconfig
[18:31] <[31d1]> oh, i couldnt do that either, so i just stuck an ethernet
[18:31] <cjwatson> ah, good, 427822 has an ext3 patch as well now
[18:31] <MindVirus> cjwatson: just that I went into #ubuntu-devel with a bug and repeated it 20 times over an hour and nobody responded once.
[18:32] <cjwatson> repetition actually often turns people off replying
[18:32] <xcdfgkjhgcv> [31d1]: That's not an option for my desktop
[18:32] <[31d1]> :(
[18:32] <cjwatson> and it depends a lot on the time of day, too
[18:32] <henrik__> MindVirus: that's a bit excessive repeating though
[18:32] <nOStahl> gah the updates got me finally!
[18:32] <nOStahl> i cant start x heh
[18:32] <henrik__> nOStahl: welcome to the club
[18:32] <nOStahl> i got an intel chipset video
[18:32] <nOStahl> i think 810 is the module
[18:32] <MindVirus> henrik__, cjwatson: The general rule on IRC is to repeat after a few minutes if nobody responds.
[18:33] <nOStahl> its loaded 915 though since the update
[18:33] <[31d1]> MindVirus: I'm still for the most part trying to get past the hump of telling whether i've found a bug or if i'm just doing something dumb
[18:33] <cjwatson> MindVirus: I'd recommend against that on #ubuntu-devel
[18:33] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: FFS
[18:33] <MindVirus> cjwatson: Understood.
[18:33] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: We're in the same boat, old chum.
[18:33] <MindVirus> [31d1]: don't be shy. Ask in #ubuntu+1.
[18:34] <MindVirus> If nobody responds, file a bug.
[18:34] <nOStahl> whats the way to revert?
[18:34] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: My main concern is that I can't get an internet connection using iwconfig
[18:34] <MindVirus> The worst that'll happen is you'll make some chump in his basement laugh a little.
[18:34] <[31d1]> yeah, i think i'll be pulling up a chair in here
[18:34] <[31d1]> for that reason
[18:34] <BluesKaj> just ran an update , a kernel got removed, hope it was the broken one :)
[18:34] <MindVirus> [31d1]: eventually you'll learn what a bug is and isn't.
[18:34] <henrik__> I just upgraded to a first floor apartment, no more basement for me :-D
[18:35] <MindVirus> henrik__: We're all very proud.
[18:35] <nOStahl> xcdfgkjhgcv whats the other command for dhcp besides dhcpcd
[18:35] <MindVirus> [31d1]: Have you noticed: is it your fault or not most of the time?
[18:35] <[31d1]> dhclient
[18:35] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: I don't know.
[18:35] <BluesKaj> bbl . I hope...
[18:35] <nOStahl> ty
[18:36] <nOStahl> k xcdfg   just type sudo ifconfig ra0 up
[18:36] <nOStahl> sudo iwconfig ra0 essid "your essid here"
[18:36] <[31d1]> MindVirus: maybe 2/3rds of the time it seems like it's actually a bug i guess
[18:36] <nOStahl> then sudo dhclient ra0
[18:36] <nOStahl> and then it will work
[18:36] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: I'm not using my Eee PC right now.
[18:36] <nOStahl> ah
[18:36] <MindVirus> [31d1]: Then definitely don't be shy to file a report.
[18:37] <JamesB192> I trashed the contents of /etc/grub.d on my Kubuntu laptop (Karmic using GRUB2) how do I replace the files that were there?
[18:37] <DKcross> i cant install upstart!
[18:37] <[31d1]> the current thing i'm wondering is a bug or not is that I get little audio blips all the time. it looks like they decided to blacklist pcspkr, which is great, but then replaced it with something else, and i don't want any sort of beep
[18:38] <DKcross> i dont have server X
[18:38] <DKcross> when i dist upgrade my karmic koala
[18:38] <DKcross> i think this is Bug
[18:38] <[31d1]> and it seems like i get a little audio 'click' whenever i would normally get a pcspkr beep
[18:38] <DKcross> and is crytical
[18:38] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: I've got iwconfig all configured but it's saying "Access Point: Not-Associated"
[18:38] <vigo> Is Firehol the security thing?
[18:38] <TheInfinity> DKcross: nvidia graphics?
[18:38] <nOStahl> so how can i revert changes from a previous update
[18:38] <durt> DKcross, none of us do, you need to wait for the devs to fix things
[18:38] <bodly> JamesB192: sudo apt-get install --reinstall grub-pc ?
[18:38] <DKcross> yes i know
[18:39] <[31d1]> DKcross: yeah things are broken
[18:39] <TheInfinity> nOStahl: you cant
[18:39] <[31d1]> and they are working on it and aware
[18:39] <DKcross> TheInfinity:  is nvidia
[18:39] <DKcross> i'm in irssi now!
[18:39] <TheInfinity> DKcross: then your victim of a well known bug :)
[18:39] <DKcross> lol
[18:39] <nOStahl> its saying 2 packages not upgraded after i run sudo aptitude safe-upgrade        initscripts and upstart
[18:39] <MindVirus> nOStahl: that wasn't a good idea.
[18:39] <TheInfinity> just wait and keep up to date
[18:39] <DKcross> yes nOStahl  the same!
[18:40] <henrik__> so how often are you guys checking apt-get update? ;)
[18:40] <MindVirus> nOStahl, DKcross: WAIT a few hours and update again.
[18:40] <MindVirus> Do NOT dist-upgrade.
[18:40] <MindVirus> henrik__: I just checked it.
[18:40] <nOStahl> k
[18:40] <Usambara> hello
[18:40] <DKcross> MindVirus:  do you have this bug?
[18:40] <cjwatson> JamesB192: apt-get --reinstall -o DPkg::options::=--force-confdef install grub-pc
[18:40] <vigo> All groovy here hendrik_.
[18:40] <MindVirus> DKcross: everyone does.
[18:41] <cjwatson> JamesB192: sorry, that's wrong
[18:41] <cjwatson> JamesB192: apt-get --reinstall -o DPkg::options::=--force-confmiss install grub-pc
[18:41] <[31d1]> lol
[18:41] <DKcross> MindVirus:  ok
[18:41] <DKcross> how i can change chanel in irssi
[18:41] <DKcross> i have two channels
[18:41] <[31d1]> esc-number
[18:41] <DKcross> but i dont move
[18:42] <vigo> Is UFW out and Firehol in?
[18:42] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: I'm authenticated now but no internet is working.
[18:42] <nOStahl> ping www.google.com
[18:42] <nOStahl> then hit ctrl c to cancel
[18:42] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: ping: unknown host www.google.co.uk
[18:42] <[31d1]> cjwatson: is that supposed to be a temporary fix for this upstart stuff?
[18:42] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: I'm not a complete Linux novice.
[18:43] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: I just have a card which isn't very good at establishing a stable connection.
[18:43] <cjwatson> [31d1]: no, JamesB192 had an independent problem
[18:43] <[31d1]> ah, ok
[18:43] <cjwatson> [31d1]: I don't have a temporary fix because I'm working solidly on actually fixing it
[18:43] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: iwconfig does report "Security mode:open" for some reason.
[18:44] <MindVirus> The temporary fix is not to update.
[18:44] <[31d1]> ok, wasn't sure if you were copy/pasting from another channel, or talking to someone in here
[18:44] <cjwatson> MindVirus: indeed
[18:44] <vigo> Mine did also, some GUI thing said No Security
[18:44] <JamesB192> I suffered from an outbreak of massive user stupidity syndrome
[18:44] <nOStahl> so whats upstart
[18:45] <[31d1]> http://upstart.ubuntu.com iirc
[18:45] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: Ah, I had to manually run dhclient.
[18:45] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: I would have thought iwconfig would sort that out for me.
[18:45] <nOStahl> nope
[18:45] <JamesB192> nOStahl: sysvinit replacement it start all the processes on your computer.
[18:45] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: I think it used to.
[18:45] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: I don't remember ever having to manually run dhclient before.
[18:46] <xcdfgkjhgcv> cjwatson nOStahl: Anyway, I'm going to go out and dick around with a laser pointer whilst I wait for the fix.
[18:46] <nOStahl> lol
[18:47] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: Do you miss me over there in #eeepc?
[18:47] <JamesB192> cjwatson: Thanky
[18:47] <JamesB192> cjwatson: Thank you that was it.
[18:47] <nOStahl> i go in there once in a while still
[18:48] <vigo> Who or what is CouchDB?
[18:49] <[31d1]> hmm, i just remembered about dvtm, and this is a perfect time for it, but it seems broken
[18:49] <K_Dallas> Hi guys! A quick question: I see that karmic is in Alpha stage but the release is scheduled for Oct 29. Isn't that a short time to go to beta and RC and final?
[18:49] <cjwatson> apt-cache show couchdb
[18:49] <vigo> Thank you.
[18:49] <cjwatson> K_Dallas: it's the same as we've pretty much always done in the past
[18:49] <cjwatson> we find it works out ok
[18:50] <K_Dallas> cjwatson, excellent. I was curious as how fast it works, thank you
[18:50] <aboSamoor> grub menu says 1.96 while the package installed is 1.97beta3 anything wrong ?
[18:50] <K_Dallas> and to make sure that alpha5 is still alpha and I shouldn't touch it
[18:51] <cjwatson> aboSamoor: dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc, and make sure you tell it to actually install grub to some devices
[18:51] <cjwatson> and that those devices are the right ones
[18:51] <[31d1]> it's certainly an alpha, K_Dallas, at least today. some things are currently pretty broken :)
[18:52] <nOStahl> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/0.1.3/+build/1244254
[18:52] <aboSamoor> cjwatson: how can I know the right devices from the current grub configuration
[18:52] <nOStahl> mountall package built for karmic it says
[18:53] <nOStahl> appears its waiting to be included in repo's and then it'll build?
[18:53] <nOStahl> acording to this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/430125
[18:53] <cjwatson> aboSamoor: you'll have to work that out for yourself, I'm afraid
 thank you for reassuring me. I think it was more like wishfull thinking ;) The actual reason is that all the latest releases, fedora-ubuntu-debian-opensuse, that I have checked, they do not work with my touchpad as the older version of ubuntu worked flawlessly. I hoped maybe the testing branch had solved the issue
[18:53] <cjwatson> aboSamoor: I'm due to try to make the question a bit clearer at some point
[18:53] <dk> hello people
[18:54] <cjwatson> nOStahl: yes, it will still take a while though
[18:54] <dk> I'm here :D
[18:54] <dk> Well i dont have server X
[18:54] <dk> :D
[18:54] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Why does Rhythmbox only detect 2/3 of my music collection from my external ext4 HDD?
[18:57] <xcdfgkjhgcv> FFS Samba isn't working so my printer isn't networked to my Eee PC.
[18:57] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I'll have to plug it in manually.
[18:57] <nOStahl> i might be up and running... one moment checking
[18:58] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: Really? How?
[18:59] <nOStahl> i can see desktop
[18:59] <nOStahl> icons and all then it kills back to cli
[18:59] <nOStahl> few min going to test further
[18:59] <cjwatson> mountall publishing. dinnertime
[18:59] <cjwatson> it may still be a while
[18:59] <[31d1]> yay!
[18:59] <xcdfgkjhgcv> cjwatson: What does mountall do?
[19:00] <[31d1]> lets you update upstart
[19:01] <nOStahl> its what lets you mount filessystems
[19:02] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: Do you miss me over there in #eeepc?
[19:02] <DsXack> please help, i can't run banshee... http://paste.ubuntu.com/271603/
[19:03] <cbmuser> hey, I dist-upgraded my karmic installation today, the initscript got replaced with an upstart script and now gdm doesn't start anymore
[19:03] <nOStahl> cbmuser really? thats weird... :P
[19:03] <cbmuser> when try to start gdm manually with "start gdm" it prints out a PID for gdm but nothing else happens
[19:03] <cbmuser> nOStahl: is that known?
[19:04] <[31d1]> how come none of you guys seem to use aptitude
[19:04] <cbmuser> I do
[19:04] <cbmuser> how would that keep you from breaking your system?
[19:04] <nOStahl> depends on if im feeling frisky or not
[19:05] <cbmuser> I only know of apt-listbugs that would prevent that
[19:05] <vigo> I use aptitude for update/upgrade
[19:05] <Hillshum> Is it too late to get new packages in? I read the linked schedule but am more confused
[19:05] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Is upstart a brand new thing for Ubuntu or something?
[19:05] <[31d1]> oh i guess dist-upgrade is aliased to full-upgrade
[19:05] <[31d1]> or something
[19:06] <[31d1]> s/aliased to/the same as/
[19:06] <cbmuser> nOStahl: do you know what might have broken gdm+upstart?
[19:06] <nOStahl> they are working on the fix cbmuser
[19:06] <cbmuser> ok, thanks
[19:06] <cbmuser> I am working with the livecd now
[19:07] <GobiTheGoblin> cbmuser, nvidia?
[19:07] <cbmuser> no, ATI
[19:07] <DsXack> me can't run gdm with nvidia too
[19:07] <cbmuser> VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc M22 [Mobility Radeon X300]
[19:07] <cbmuser> it doesn't seem to be an issue with X, is it?
[19:08] <nOStahl> hrmm im just getting the cursor now
[19:08] <mapet> has mountall been uploaded now?
[19:09] <GobiTheGoblin> cbmuser, there were a problem with libc6 yesterday and early today... if was later fixed. don't know if it relates to you, because mainly nvidia users reported it...
[19:09] <GobiTheGoblin> cbmuser, that libc6 came with updates
[19:09] <cbmuser> hmm
[19:09] <cbmuser> at what log should I take a look at?
[19:09]  * Hillshum had trouble getting gdm to load with ati
[19:10] <GobiTheGoblin> try updating repos and installing new ones if you can
[19:11] <GobiTheGoblin> cbmuser, this was the problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-180/+bug/429003
[19:11] <GobiTheGoblin> cbmuser, if it is any help
[19:12] <sparr> php is causing apache to randomly segfault, anyone else experiencing this issue?
[19:13] <nOStahl> sparr sudo apt-get remove php5-hosin or whatever its called
[19:13] <nOStahl> google that
[19:13] <sparr> google the term that you aren't sure how to spell?  :)
[19:13] <nOStahl> yep
[19:15] <sparr> well, google doesn't like "hosin", and packages.ubuntu.com says there is no php5-h*
[19:16] <cbmuser> GobiTheGoblin: I wanted to dist-upgrade now, but upstart is broken atm
[19:16] <cbmuser> The following packages have unmet dependencies: upstart: PreDepends: mountall but it is not installable
[19:16] <nOStahl> look in /etc/php5/conf.d
[19:16] <jwhitley> Hi all.  upstart 0.6.3-2 is BROKEN.  It pre-depends on "mountall", which does not exist.
[19:16] <cbmuser> E: Broken packages
[19:16] <cbmuser> hehe
[19:16] <cbmuser> it starting to get amusing ;)
[19:16] <sparr> aha
[19:17] <sparr> suhosin
[19:17] <fakbill> hi. is there something deeply wrong with the current udev in karmic?
[19:17] <nOStahl> just cut that file and put it somewhere safe
[19:17] <nOStahl> restart apache and its fixed
[19:17] <[31d1]> apparenlty mountall is being published and should show up in apt very soon
[19:17] <tormod> fakbill: such as?
[19:17] <cbmuser> does ubuntu have some sort of incoming like debian?
[19:17] <GobiTheGoblin> cbmuser, oh.. well that goes over my expertise. Can't really say other than try to repair the packages with apt if its any good
[19:17] <xcdfgkjhgcv> [31d1]: I fucking hate it when my system completely breaks like this.
[19:18] <fakbill> such as it does not boot
[19:18] <Pici> xcdfgkjhgcv: Please mind your language here.
[19:18] <fakbill> or it does boot in recovery mode
[19:18] <fakbill> but not much
[19:18] <xcdfgkjhgcv> fakbill: It boots just fine.
[19:18] <nOStahl> how do i use a live cd to upgrade my installed system
[19:18] <[31d1]> I only hate it when i'm not running a sytem that explicitly warns you it might break at any time
[19:18] <tormod> nOStahl: chroot
[19:19] <nOStahl> k
[19:19] <xcdfgkjhgcv> nOStahl: I think you add it as a software repository and then apt-get and apt-get dist-upgrade or something like that?
[19:19] <jwhitley> actually, my system barely boots.  sys bell screams 1/2 the time and augers in.  on backup sys now, as karmic box unusable.
[19:19] <GobiTheGoblin> well guys... It IS a dev version... it is practically matter of time when things broke down, I take these as a learning tutorials :P
[19:19] <sparr> what is "FFE"?
[19:19] <Pici> Feature Freeze Exception
[19:19] <Pici> !ffe
[19:19] <xcdfgkjhgcv> GobiTheGoblin: Jaunty wouldn't work with my Wi-Fi
[19:19] <tormod> I am calling in from Jaunty here :) but that is because I was running the "boot" PPA, I thought
[19:20] <cbmuser> mountall can be fetched here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/0.1.3/+build/1244254/+files/mountall_0.1.3_i386.deb
[19:20] <GobiTheGoblin> xcdfgkjhgcv: What is your wifi?
[19:20] <xcdfgkjhgcv> GobiTheGoblin: Netgear WMA311 or something like that
[19:21] <GobiTheGoblin> xcdfgkjhgcv, can't find anything with that..
[19:21] <GobiTheGoblin> xcdfgkjhgcv, USB?
[19:21] <xcdfgkjhgcv> GobiTheGoblin: PCI
[19:22] <GobiTheGoblin> xcdfgkjhgcv, lspci  and try to find that chip in there
[19:22] <xcdfgkjhgcv> GobiTheGoblin: Why?
[19:22] <xcdfgkjhgcv> GobiTheGoblin: I think I found out that it was a problem with the 2.6.28 kernel
[19:23] <GobiTheGoblin> xcdfgkjhgcv, well I had heat problems with same kernel -> reason why I took karmic
[19:23] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I want 10.04 LTS
[19:23] <GobiTheGoblin> xcdfgkjhgcv, You could try to update your kernel?
[19:23] <xcdfgkjhgcv> But without shitty Pulseaudio.
[19:23] <Pici> !language | xcdfgkjhgcv
[19:24] <xcdfgkjhgcv> GobiTheGoblin: Upgrading to Karmic just seemed easier.
[19:24] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I wanted updated packages too.
[19:24] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Like Transmission.
[19:24] <GobiTheGoblin> ..and now wifi isnt working?
[19:24] <duffydack> xcdfgkjhgcv, ive ben to the future and got a copy and its still got the crap sound "mixerless" thing,.
[19:24] <xcdfgkjhgcv> GobiTheGoblin: It's working fine.
[19:24] <xcdfgkjhgcv> !language duffydack
[19:24] <GobiTheGoblin> xcdfgkjhgcv, Ok. now i missed something... so whats wrong?
[19:24] <xcdfgkjhgcv> GobiTheGoblin: Nothing.
[19:25] <xcdfgkjhgcv> GobiTheGoblin: Except that my whole fucking system is fucked.
[19:25] <DKcross1> well   i need server x, but i will wait
[19:25] <DKcross1> :)
[19:25] <duffydack> !language | xcdfgkjhgcv
[19:25] <xcdfgkjhgcv> DKcross1: I'm going to go out and dick around with a laser pointer whilst I wait.
[19:25] <xcdfgkjhgcv> !language | duffydack
[19:25] <DKcross1> :o
[19:26] <henrik__> cbmuser: is there any amd64 version?
[19:26] <duffydack> yo dit that once already...
[19:26] <duffydack> did*
[19:26] <xcdfgkjhgcv> duffydack: I didn't do it right.
[19:27] <xcdfgkjhgcv> BBL
[19:27] <taneli> udev seems to be completely hosed
[19:27] <taneli> (or whoever populates /dev)
[19:27] <maxb> Hrm, karmic seems pretty broken right now
[19:28] <maxb> It had been doing so well, too
[19:28] <maxb> Ironic that it all goes kablooey just as we freeze for alpha 6
[19:29] <cbmuser> henrik__: yes
[19:29] <cbmuser> just go to the ppa page
[19:29] <vigo> Am I reading this wrong or something...: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/firehol
[19:30] <klaxian> anyone else not able to boot into karmic after recent updates today?
[19:30] <nOStahl> whats the hotkey to stop usplash and see the udev running
[19:30] <DKcross1> klaxian: me too:D
[19:30] <klaxian> first, it can't mount /dev/pts and /dev/shm and then it hangs on winbind
[19:30] <taneli> is the inability to load firmwares related to udev?
[19:30] <DKcross1> nOStahl: alt1
[19:30] <fakbill> same here
[19:30] <wastrel> is this the upstart thing
[19:31] <klaxian> killing winbind manually lets it get to the login screen but then it freezes
[19:31] <klaxian> ah ok so i'm not the only one
[19:31] <klaxian> i didn't see a bug for it
[19:31] <fakbill> klaxian: I have the same issue here
[19:31] <klaxian> alrighty :)  do we have a workaround?  or just wait for new packages?
[19:31] <fakbill> klaxian: look at /etc/init.d/udev
[19:31] <fakbill> is the file ok?
[19:31] <cbmuser> but initscripts is broken as well
[19:32] <klaxian> i will when the fsck is done.  my mount time keeps getting off and then i have to do an fsck
[19:32] <fakbill> the boot sequence is for sure broken
[19:32] <fakbill> depply
[19:32] <fakbill> deeply
[19:32] <fakbill> no clue what went wrong
[19:32] <vigo> Did you use safe-upgrade?
[19:33] <taneli> could it be a driver requesting firmware, which is then not found
[19:33] <fakbill> vigo: yes
[19:33] <fakbill> safe-upgrade
[19:33] <vigo> hrmm
[19:33] <fakbill> 1h ago
[19:33] <klaxian> could be.  my wireless light doesn't turn on now
[19:33] <cbmuser>   initscripts: Breaks: rsyslog (< 4.2.0-2ubuntu3~boot1) but 4.2.0-2ubuntu2 is installed.
[19:33] <cbmuser>                Breaks: udev (< 146-2~boot6) but 146-1 is installed.
[19:33] <vigo> Ok, Thank you, I will not do it again today...
[19:34] <fakbill> what does it means?
[19:35] <jwhitley> right, thanks for the mountall build links.  back up and running.
[19:36] <klaxian> whats the link to the new mountall package?
[19:36] <vigo> Is it a QT4 or python thing?
[19:36] <klaxian> i wasn't here for that and i think that's what i need also
[19:36] <fakbill> vigo: is there a way to unscrew it? (it is no pb for me to download a package and install it )
[19:37] <jwhitley> find your platform's build here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/0.1.3/+build/1244254
[19:37] <cbmuser> klaxian:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/0.1.3/
[19:37] <klaxian> thank you
[19:37] <henrik__> so with mountall and updated upstart it works again?
[19:37] <jwhitley> yes.  booted, most bizarreness gone.  I had to manually run "sudo NetworkManager".
[19:37] <maxb> Hmm, I can boot, it's just X that is unhappy
[19:38] <fakbill> so what is the procedure?
[19:38] <jwhitley> "sudo restart network-manager" emits the cryptic "restart: Unknown instance: " and nothing more.
[19:38] <fakbill> maxb: yes. same pb here
[19:39] <kosinus> Oh wow, lots of happy faces here. :)
[19:41] <[31d1]> mountall is in apt now
[19:42]  * kosinus charges head first
[19:42] <henrik__> well, installing mountall didn't make it any better for me
[19:42] <jwhitley> what's up with the new "initscripts" package?  shows as greyed in update-manager, gives major warnings via apt-get.
[19:43] <jwhitley> henrik__: you also need to install upstart after mountall.
[19:43] <jwhitley> sudo apt-get install upstart
[19:43]  * agl is regretting updating Karmic this morning - everything linked against glib stopped working.
[19:43] <jwhitley> then reboot
[19:43] <kosinus> looks like it still wants a newer hostname and rsyslog for initscripts?
[19:43] <klaxian> yah mountall and upstart let my system boot normally, but no networking
[19:43] <gnata> re
[19:43] <henrik__> jwhitley: I did, but it didn't fix the breakage
[19:44] <jwhitley> klaxian: "sudo NetworkManager"  there's still lossage.
[19:44] <henrik__> jwhitley: or there is additional breakage
[19:44] <jwhitley> NetworkManager isn't being started properly on boot.
[19:44] <klaxian> jwhitley: ah thats what i was looking for
[19:44] <klaxian> and we're back :)
[19:44] <klaxian> thanks
[19:44] <jwhitley> henrik: right, thanks for clarification.  my sys is dodgy as well.
[19:44] <gnata> what should I try to recover a bit this poor karmic?
[19:45] <gnata> new version of usev?
[19:45] <gnata> udev
[19:45] <kosinus> I can start network manager just peachy via upstart with "sudo start network-manager"
[19:45] <klaxian> thanks guys.  i'm sure they will fix this more permanently soon
[19:45] <klaxian> :)
[19:45] <jwhitley> kosinus: right, good point.  I confirmed.  restart doesn't work, however, gives cryptic error.
[19:45] <[31d1]> woo X
[19:46] <vigo> Bunch of fixes here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-5
[19:46] <gnata> ok. I'm going to look at that
[19:46] <jwhitley> gnata: read recent irclogs at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/15/%23ubuntu+1.html
[19:46] <kosinus> jwhitley: Yeah, I noticed that, but could that just be because nothing's running yet? The error looks like it's trying to stop first, but doesn't find a running instance.
[19:48] <jwhitley> kosinus: possibly.  I'm new to upstart usage; typical init.d script policy is that restart should not fail if the service isn't running.
[19:48] <[31d1]> new kernel only has one virtual terminal
[19:49] <kosinus> jwhitley: heh, it is rather surprising. I actually looked in init.d first and saw NetworkManager renamed to network-manager. I only found out about 'start' because it gives a helpful message when you start it the 'old way'. :)
[19:49] <gnata>                  network-manager. I only found out about 'start' because
[19:49] <gnata> oups
[19:49] <gnata> I'm trying to figure out what I should update
[19:50] <superdump> hello
[19:50] <superdump> i'm running xubuntu karmic and i just ran some updates which seem to have caused some issues
[19:50] <henrik__> hm, so does anybody have X back after the brokenness?
[19:51] <superdump> hal doesn't start properly i don't think so X doesn't start properly
[19:51] <superdump> and i don't have any ptys
[19:51] <superdump> i'm not too sure what else is wrong, but i think udev was amongst the updates and i'm kind of suspecting that
[19:51] <kosinus> henrik__: I got X up by booting into the older -9 kernel. But it hung completely in GDM.
[19:52] <superdump> if i can provide any information, let me know
[19:52] <gnata> superdump: the boot sequence is broken in a quite bad way
[19:52] <kosinus> Fun times for all. :)
[19:52] <superdump> gnata: is it known what is wrong?
[19:53] <gnata> some broken dependancies
[19:53] <superdump> (it seems dbus is not running either)
[19:53] <superdump> ok
[19:53] <gnata> but I don't know how to recover
[19:54] <superdump> maybe this is a stupid question but - any kind of eta on a fix?
[19:54] <jwhitley> udev died because it depends on upstart, but upstart got hosed due to a missing (new) package pre-depends (mountall).  mountall has landed now.  try apt-get install mountall; apt-get install upstart
[19:54] <[31d1]> fix for upstart is out, and working
[19:54] <gnata> I hope it is only a matter of donwloading some .deb
[19:54] <jwhitley> fix is now in apt; no need for a .deb now.
[19:54] <gnata> jwhitley: ok let's try
[19:55]  * superdump tries too
[19:55] <jwhitley> (colleague here just confirmed mountall in apt)
[19:55] <[31d1]> initscripts is still messed up though
[19:55] <[31d1]> which i guess explains networkmangler/dbus stuff
[19:56] <gnata> not sure I have a network...let see.
[19:56] <lupine_85> ooh, still getting fun brokens?
[19:56] <lupine_85> not seen that in an alpha5 for a while
[19:56] <superdump> as there is no #xubuntu+1, i'm also wondering if the boot splash for xubuntu is going to be made to match those for ubuntu and kubuntu (the ones with the thin line) as they look _much_ better
[19:56] <superdump> gnata: i managed to get network up just by running sudo NetworkManager
[19:57] <[31d1]> gnata: seems you have to manually start network manager
[19:57] <gnata> well I going to download the .deb
[19:57] <superdump> indeed it picked up the mountall dep
[19:57] <superdump> back in a minute then i guess
[19:59] <kosinus> wow, launchpad seems to work really well in links :)
[19:59] <Blinkiz> Hi there. Am testing Ubuntu karmic server. Am having problem getting the network to work. It does not seems like karmic is reading /etc/network/interface. Has something changed with karmic?
[20:00] <Blinkiz> I can't reload the network (/etc/init.d/networking restart). It complains about missing statefile something...
[20:01] <schmidtm> hi since todays update the keyboard and touchpad of my t61 thinnkpad do not work anymore
[20:01] <Blinkiz> I can check the error more carefully if that helps?
[20:01] <Heikki123> Hello
[20:02] <Heikki123> Anyone had luck on using usb headset with skype when playing music from the internal pci soundcard?
[20:02] <Heikki123> in skype there is a list to choose the device, but there is only "pulseaudio"
[20:02] <durt> ya folks, lotsa breakage yesterday/today... this channel been pretty busy for the last few hours.
[20:04] <madmike77_eee> latest update & upgrade: after boot black-screen, no tty.
[20:05] <durt> Blinkiz, I get /etc/network/interfaces parsed on boot for wired nics but not ppp0. There are breakage issues with upstart.
[20:06] <Blinkiz> durt, Yeah, "initscripts" and "upstart" was not installed according to apt-get on my karmic server. I installed the server today, with todays iso
[20:06] <Blinkiz> durt, Can this be the reason why my network does not work? Missing config files?
[20:07] <durt> Blinkiz, according to the devs it's being worked on... I assume the network issue is related, but I haven't a clue how to prove it.
[20:07] <madmike77_eee> i see it
[20:07] <Blinkiz> durt, thanks.
[20:08] <Blinkiz> durt, Know any launchpad bug report I can follow on this issue maybe?
[20:08] <durt> not yet.
[20:08] <DKcross> well.. any know more about bug with upstart?
[20:09] <gnata> yesss. start udev manually,install mountall and it does boot again
[20:09] <maxb> It really is quite impressively broken :-/
[20:09] <gnata> maxb: yes. the worst one I have seen so far since alpha1
[20:10] <Cynthia> Is it possible that the update from Alpha5 to current packages freezes the GNOME login screen?
[20:11] <kosinus> Cynthia: I've seen that. (but don't ask me why ;)
[20:11] <madmike77_eee> How does one enter into the grub2 menu? ESC doesn't seem to work...
[20:11] <kosinus> madmike77_eee: I think you hold shift during boot
[20:12] <Cynthia> kosinus: Ah, I see. Thanks. :) Another thing I noticed is that the update couldn't be calculated, I had to use apt-get instead of the Update Manager.
[20:12] <[31d1]> ok MindVirus i just filed a bug :)
[20:12] <madmike77_eee> kosinus: nope, doens't work
[20:12] <Cynthia> Is this a normal archive fubar during alphas? This is my first test of alphas, I normally use release vers.
[20:13] <[31d1]> i have high hopes it's not a dupe
[20:13] <kosinus> Cynthia: you've got bad timing. Today's has seen some unusually stormy weather. :)
[20:13] <madmike77_eee> How does one enter into grub2-menu?
[20:13] <tormod> Cynthia: this is the worst I have been hit by I think
[20:14] <maxb> Cynthia: The alphas are usually fine, but *this* is what we mean when we say "Karmic is NOT RELEASED and may break your system"
[20:14] <kosinus> madmike77_eee: well, you could try playing with the timeout settings in /etc/default/grub and update-grub afterwards.
[20:14] <Cynthia> maxb: I fully understand that, and was wondering if others were hit by the gnome login screen freeze
[20:14] <gnata> ok.everthing back to normal. **thanks**
[20:14] <kosinus> Cynthia: lots of people don't even have X or network. :)
[20:15] <Cynthia> kosinus: lol, oh dear
[20:15] <madmike77_eee> kosinus: we didn't change anything with the timeout... running with a default grub-setup here
[20:15] <arand> madmike77_eee: If you want the boot menu just hold down shift on boot, I think, or esc, which I think it's going to be in the future....
[20:15] <[31d1]> timeout on mine says 10 ... but it doesnt seem to wait at all
[20:15] <kosinus> madmike77_eee: I know, but that's one of the things you can try to get to grub's menu. Grub 1 used to have a countdown during boot, but they've eliminated that.
[20:16] <gnata> i just hope the fs it ok...let's hqve q llok
[20:16] <cjwatson> no, shift is the intended behaviour
[20:16] <cjwatson> esc is old
[20:16] <BenCal> Hi all, I'm using Ubuntu Karmic. Following a system update and trying to boot with kernel 2.6.31-10 I receive this error and it stops: pci_enable_pcie_error_reporting failed - Can somebody give me advice?
[20:16] <kosinus> yeah, I could've sworn shift worked just a minute ago for me, but I guess the timing is tricky
[20:16] <cjwatson> anyway this is all dependent on whether you have other operating systems installed, and on configuration
[20:17] <cjwatson> hopefully, for karmic final, we'll have a way to detect whether the last boot failed and if so automatically show the grub menu
[20:17] <madmike77_eee> shift worked
[20:17] <cjwatson> that's actually fairly straightforward, I'm just talking with various people about the right design
[20:17] <kosinus> that would be swell. :)
[20:18]  * kosinus is quite enjoying a KMS powered console with irssi, for a change. :D
[20:18] <Cynthia> kosinus: agreed, 56 lines (for resolution 1440x900) is much better than just 25 :)
[20:20] <BluesKaj> no kernels are in the grub menu after the last update..guess the desktop install is dead
[20:21] <madmike77_eee> ok i got a terminal, and i got inet so wait for updates thx
[20:21] <torgnyj> if I boot in rescue mode and drop to a prompt it's workin
[20:22] <torgnyj> err, stupid copy paste... disgard the above...
[20:22] <torgnyj> hey! Just did an update/upgrade on my 9.10 install and now my mouse and keyboard doesn't work at the kdm login. Something that has happend to someone else?
[20:22] <Cynthia> torgnyj: me too in GNOME
[20:22] <BluesKaj> you guys are lucky , no such animal in my zoo today ..kernels are all stripped
[20:23] <torgnyj> Cynthia: nice to hear I'm not alone =)
[20:23] <Cynthia> I wasn't alone when I joined either :D
[20:23] <madmike77_eee> @torgny: that was my first ploblem, no i cant boot without boot parameter so keep attetion
[20:23] <madmike77_eee> ;)
[20:23] <torgnyj> hehe
[20:23] <Cynthia> I'm reinstalling Alpha5 right now, to check why this happens
[20:24] <BluesKaj> i guess the devs are scrambling at canonical right now ...wt* did we do ???   :)
[20:24] <torgnyj> :)
[20:24] <BenCal> @torgnyj, yes -  I think I've got a similar problem - booting hangs with pci_enable_pcie_error_reporting failed
[20:24] <madmike77_eee> this is a bad day in the history of karmic
[20:25] <Cynthia> just saw a typo in the slideshow... "keeps you compatible your friends" in the OpenOffice slide
[20:25] <cbmuser> I installed mountall now and upgraded upstart, but the machine hangs after when loading the init scripts
[20:25] <torgnyj> BenCal: hmm I haven't seen that
[20:25] <BluesKaj> well now , how many broken karmics do we have after today's updates...I'm on the laptop and I haven't updated yet so i'll wait til there's update that doesn't break this install. My desktop install is prolly kaput ..
[20:26] <cbmuser> kosinus: try to convince the Ubuntu guys to enable kms by default :)
[20:26] <Cynthia> as I expected, this bug has already been caught: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/428594
[20:26]  * bodly reminds himself not to reboot until this is all ironed out.
[20:26] <maxb> mm, right, I have rescued my karmic install by rolling back every package I recently updated and a bunch of manual fiddling with initscripts..... now to roll forward gradually again....
[20:26] <madmike77_eee> @cbmuser: press shift while booting, insert to the kernel line this: init=/bin/bash
[20:26] <kosinus> cbmuser: it is enabled by default
[20:26] <BluesKaj> Cynthia:  there's more than one
[20:26] <madmike77_eee> then remount with mount -o remount,rw /
[20:27] <madmike77_eee> and get your network driver up
[20:27] <madmike77_eee> wait for updates$
[20:27] <arand> Here gdm is broken, should one try to force in updated initscripts and upstart at this point or just wait?
[20:27] <Cynthia> arand: the last update to the repo (not alpha5 per se) broke it, just wait I think
[20:28] <DanaG> I've installed the stuff from ubuntu-boot ppa, and it boots fine for me; it just had to fsck everything first.
[20:28] <DanaG> http://picpaste.com/EliteBook-karmic-20090915-1.png
[20:28] <DanaG> that's a second boot, there.  after the fsck.
[20:29] <DanaG> NOte that I added a "sleep" so it bootcharts my gnome.
[20:29] <BluesKaj> Anyone lose grub, or parts of it ?
[20:29] <arand> Yea, I saw a gdm update recently, so I'm guessing that pulled ahead of initscripts an upstart, and fell flat. Those two packages are held back for me.
[20:29] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Is it fixed yet?
[20:29] <amortvigil> ubottu: plymouth
[20:29] <amortvigil> ubottu: plymouth!
[20:29] <CydeSwype> lol
[20:29] <CydeSwype> pushy pushy
[20:30] <DanaG> ubottu: YOUR MOM!
[20:30] <amortvigil> ubottu: just tell me about plymouth!!!
[20:30] <amortvigil> `;p
[20:30] <kosinus> there is no plymouth in ubuntu?
[20:30] <amortvigil> kosinus: there would bee...
[20:30] <amortvigil> its promised :p
[20:30] <CydeSwype> the cake is a lie
[20:30] <amortvigil> they realy promissed
[20:30] <xcdfgkjhgcv> ubuntulog: Devon
[20:30] <kosinus> amortvigil: they backed away from that and now we have xsplash
[20:30] <xcdfgkjhgcv> ubottu: Devon
[20:31] <arand> amortvigil: heh like the promise of a new theme ;þ
[20:31] <amortvigil> kosinus: xsplash
[20:31] <amortvigil> whoops
[20:31] <xcdfgkjhgcv> FFS when is the mountall thingy going to be fixed?
[20:31] <kosinus> hey now, I'm not bot! :D
[20:31] <amortvigil> ubottu: xsplash
[20:31] <amortvigil> noooooo
[20:31] <kosinus> xcdfgkjhgcv: mountall is already fixed, update and upgrade
[20:31] <amortvigil> smashes keyboard into screen
[20:31] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kosinus: upstart and initscripts are still being held back.
[20:31]  * amortvigil smashes keyboard into screen
[20:32] <DanaG> hmm, how can I speed up my login?  It now takes longer to log in than it does to boot to login screen.
[20:32] <cbmuser> kosinus: I had to enable it with an entry in /etc/modprobe.d
[20:32]  * amortvigil drains the oil out of ubottu 
[20:32] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kosinus: Okay. I installled mountall and upgraded upstart but initscripts is still being held back.
[20:32] <CydeSwype> ...that's not oil
[20:33] <kosinus> cbmuser: Well, it could be a driver thing. It's enabled by default for a lot of intel chips at least.
[20:33] <kosinus> xcdfgkjhgcv: Yep, we're all sitting on that one here. :)
[20:33] <amortvigil> CydeSwype: bots run on oil
[20:33] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kosinus: How do I fix it?
[20:33] <arand> Hehe: Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Neither karmic nor the buildds are in a  happy place right now, things are being sorted
[20:34] <tormod> DanaG: same here. they're breaking^Wdoing everything to get a faster boot, but then the new Gbloat steals it all
[20:34] <kosinus> xcdfgkjhgcv: there's not much to do besides wait for new packages. :)
[20:34] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kosinus: Can I start X without it?
[20:34] <ior3k> hey guys
[20:34] <cbmuser> kosinus: yeah, intel-kms is more mature
[20:34] <root> hi
[20:34] <amortvigil> im not a racist but when the bots are inhuman like this ill deny their rights!
[20:34] <CydeSwype> amortvigil: i think you pulled his mating plug
[20:34] <cbmuser> kosinus: I have an ati-board
[20:34] <Guest49254> anyone here with boot issues after latest updates?
[20:34] <amortvigil> i have an anti-bot
[20:34] <arand> ior3k: hia
[20:35] <ior3k> I just updated from archive.ubuntu.com an hour ago
[20:35] <Cynthia> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptitude/+bug/344670  looks like Alpha 5s in general are "cursed" :)
[20:35] <kosinus> xcdfgkjhgcv: if your X is broken, try holding shift while booting to get into the GRUB menu, then select the older -9 kernel.
[20:35] <ior3k> my machine doesn't boot now
[20:35] <madmike77_eee> get the packages from ubuntu-boot ppa
[20:35] <madmike77_eee> i am back in game ;)
[20:35] <sir_killbotalot> well ubottu ready for our battle?
[20:35] <CydeSwype> indus: yes, welcome to the club
[20:35] <indus> madmike77_eee: how to add those
[20:35] <kosinus> cbmuser: they are pushing for that to be on by default by karmic release, iirc.
[20:35] <[31d1]> xcdfgkjhgcv: X works without initscripts. but networking needs to be manually started and stuff
[20:35] <arand> Who has control over topic? Put something appropriate there!
[20:35] <DanaG> sudo add-apt-archive ppa:ubuntu-boot
[20:35] <sir_killbotalot> ubottu: die!
[20:35] <indus> i want to play some quake 4 ,please help :)
[20:36] <cbmuser> kosinus: ah, good
[20:36] <sir_killbotalot> ubottu: faceplant!
[20:36] <CydeSwype> can someone change the channel topic to reflect the current issues?  so as to keep from having to answer the same questions
[20:36] <sir_killbotalot> ubottu: yes
[20:36] <Pici> sir_killbotalot: Please don't abuse the bot.
[20:36] <DanaG> how do I make my gnome not so dog-slow to start?
[20:36] <xcdfgkjhgcv> FFS now my system won't even boot.
[20:36] <DanaG> oh, and my bootchart is rather garbled.
[20:36] <sir_killbotalot> Pici: its denying in being informative
[20:36] <ior3k> xcdfgkjhgcv: same here
[20:37] <Cynthia> Logouts also take around 10 seconds without doing anything, as if there was a sleep()
[20:37] <ior3k> downloading a live 9.04 image
[20:37]  * cjwatson tries to get udev built
[20:37] <sir_killbotalot> Pici: ubottu is Insubordinating
[20:37]  * CydeSwype installed a fresh 9.10 and is avoiding updates until all the holds are resolved
[20:38] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kosinus: Thanks a fucking lot for telling me to do something which made me unable to boot my machine.
[20:38] <CydeSwype> a fresh 9.10 Alpha 5 install works fine
[20:38] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kosinus: You told me to reboot into -9 kernel
[20:38] <DanaG> ugh, that bootchart is garbled, too.... overlapping text!
[20:38] <kosinus> xcdfgkjhgcv: how can that harm things? just reboot again and it should pick -10 again
[20:38] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kosinus: -10 won't boot
[20:38] <indus> neither kernelll will boot since the issue is something else
[20:38]  * superdump has returned
[20:39] <superdump> well, that's a bit better
[20:39] <CydeSwype> xcdfgkjhgcv: it's alpha man...there's no implied support for alpha releases
[20:39] <ior3k> anyone know when the latest problems are expected to be fixed?
[20:39] <[31d1]> !help
[20:39] <[31d1]> hmmm
[20:39] <superdump> other issues i currently experience: mysqld doesn't start properly
[20:39] <indus> ior3k: i heard ther are fixed with some new updates>rumours
[20:39] <indus> brb check
[20:39] <indus> exit
[20:39] <indus> quit
[20:39] <indus> how to quit this thinh
[20:39] <indus> irssi
[20:40] <kosinus> /quit
[20:40] <[31d1]>  /quit
[20:40] <sir_killbotalot> Pici: lol he puts in 1 sentence an got kicked im lolling all the time and still here
[20:40] <CydeSwype> wow...
[20:40] <xcdfgkjhgcv> So how do I make my system bootable again?
[20:40] <sir_killbotalot> xcdfgkjhgcv: reboot
[20:40] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I'll try the recovery thingy.
[20:41] <sir_killbotalot> xcdfgkjhgcv: reboot
[20:41] <CydeSwype> xcdfgkjhgcv: burn a live iso and/or reinstall alpha 5 but don't update after install until all the holds have cleared
[20:41] <xcdfgkjhgcv> CydeSwype: I can't burn a CD without my computer to burn one with.
[20:41] <indus> can anyone read that thread on the forums and tell me if some update there?
[20:42] <indus> apt-add-archive ubuntu-boot ppa
[20:42] <indus> hmm
[20:42] <CydeSwype> xcdfgkjhgcv: you don't have a friend to mooch a computer off of or the ISO that you burnt originally?
[20:42] <xcdfgkjhgcv> CydeSwype: I don't think so.
[20:42] <sir_killbotalot> xcdfgkjhgcv: put lampoil in your dvd player togeter with the live disk, light it, and restart, be carefull to pull out the current before trying, you may harm your system
[20:43] <maxb> ikonia: build*d*s
[20:43] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I'll try all my DVD RWs to see if one of them has Ubuntu on it.
[20:43] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I doubt it.
[20:43] <ikonia> ?
[20:43] <CydeSwype> ikonia: thanks!
[20:43] <indus> hi
[20:43] <xcdfgkjhgcv> ikonia: FFS I'm really bloody annoyed right now
[20:43] <indus> what was that command to add ppa
[20:44] <kosinus> xcdfgkjhgcv: If you're skilled on the console, you could also look on the wiki for instructions on setting up a bootable USB stick.
[20:44] <[31d1]> I guess you can mail in for a CD
[20:44] <indus> anyone command for adding custom ppa
[20:44] <ikonia> maxb: did I miss something
[20:45] <CydeSwype> jeez...some people.  if you're going to play with an alpha, at least do yourself the favor of having a backup computer or at least an ISO to restore with/from
[20:45] <indus> why cant i have one terminal for irssi and another for doing stuff
[20:45] <kosinus> CydeSwype: tbh, I don't either, but I take things lightly. ;)
[20:45] <[31d1]> indus i dunno, wht cant you
[20:45] <cjwatson> ikonia: buildd == build daemon a.k.a. build server; it's the buildds that are broken, not the builds
[20:45] <cjwatson> (/topic)
[20:45] <ikonia> cjwatson: ahhh tpo
[20:46] <ikonia> typo
[20:46] <ikonia> thank you
[20:46] <cjwatson> udev/i386 will be fixed shortly, may help with initscripts
[20:46] <taneli> indus: use screen?
[20:46] <indus> [31d1]: i want to stay in channel,but also try if some updates come, i dont have gui
[20:46] <cjwatson> I'm just trying to sort it out on a few other architectures too
[20:46] <cjwatson> this is tedious :-/
[20:46] <indus> cjwatson: thanks
[20:46] <indus> ikonia: also thanks
[20:46] <[31d1]> indus: yeah. screen or another console
[20:47] <indus> [31d1]: well,i cant get another console, all are dead
[20:47] <ikonia> not a problem
[20:47] <_markus__> hi
[20:47] <_markus__> I've been running karmic sine a few weeks, after I upgraded a few minutes ago, I can't boot into my system anymore (neither normal nor recover). The last lines when running recover are that it writes starting script in bottom-local and ...-local, then nothing. I can press ctrl-alt-del and it reboots. During the reboot sequence I see that the filesystem was mounted read only yet. Any ideas?
[20:47] <taneli> indus: you have /dev/pts mounted?
[20:47] <CydeSwype> _markus__ please see topic
[20:47] <[31d1]> ah, oh yeah the latest kernel only has one
[20:47] <_markus__> CydeSwype: darn :(
[20:47] <arand> _markus__: topic^ bad karma currently
[20:47] <indus> taneli: naah it asks me those questions
[20:48] <_markus__> thx
[20:48] <CydeSwype> ha...bad karma
[20:48] <indus> indus, /dev/pts mounted y/n? :)
[20:48] <indus> taneli:
[20:48] <[31d1]> screen, or even dvts
[20:48] <indus> aah so late here almost 1 am
[20:48] <_markus__> Is it foreseeable that there will be a fix for systems which don't boot anymore? Or just upraded packages which won't bring a system into an unstable state?
[20:49] <indus> 1 .20 am
[20:49] <indus> [31d1]: what is screen
[20:49] <[31d1]> it's a terminal multiplexer
[20:49] <sparr> I did "dpkg -i" on a package that can't be installed because one of it's dependencies doesn't exist.  How can I resolve the situation so that I can install other packages normally?
[20:49] <maco> or tmux!
[20:49] <CydeSwype> _markus__ when i was stuck before i re-installed, i was still able to get to a root prompt with networking by way of recovery mode from grub
[20:50] <maco> (another terminal multiplexor)
[20:50] <CydeSwype> try that, and if you can get there, then you should be able to apt-get update/upgrade once the fix is in
[20:50] <[31d1]> you run screen, and then you can create new screens in it with ^-A c and switch between them with ^-a 1/2/3 etc
[20:50] <indus> i got atleast 10 diff errors after this update, first acpi,then apt error, some winbind error,networking went dead,enabling keymap and hung etc etc :)
[20:50] <_markus__> CydeSwype: I tried that, the recover mode doesn't give me a shell either ...
[20:50] <[31d1]> dvtm is more like a window manager for terminals
[20:51] <CydeSwype> _markus__ maybe a good idea to start burning the Alpha 5 ISO just in case
[20:51] <indus> [31d1]: i have to install screen, apt-get scren?
[20:51] <[31d1]> yeah
[20:51] <CydeSwype> you can recover files from the live iso
[20:51] <[31d1]> and then take a look at the man page before you run it
[20:51] <[31d1]> because it's not the most intuitive program ever
[20:51] <[31d1]> i think RMS wrote it, so ymmv
[20:51]  * indus thinks a smoke is fine now
[20:52] <arand> Seems like mountall package is not available, stopping upgrade of upstart, and udev, rsyslog, upstart, stopping upgrade of initscripts... And I guess recently upgraded gdm wanted those upgrades...
[20:52] <[31d1]> mountall is in apt now
[20:52] <_markus__> CydeSwype: right .. if I just knew what would have to be fixed ... well, thx anyway
[20:52] <indus> [31d1]: hmm
[20:52] <arand> As for the kernel bork, I dunno
[20:52] <kosinus> Hooray, reboot brought my music back. That's all I need to sit through this. :)
[20:52] <indus> aplha 6 is 1 day from now i believe?
[20:53] <CydeSwype> indus: correct
[20:53] <indus> or effectively those who use karmic already are or will be onb it today?
[20:53] <nOStahl> well i got back into karmic
[20:53] <BluesKaj> the kernels all disappeared from grub ..anybody else ?
[20:53] <indus> nOStahl: u did?
[20:53] <CydeSwype> is it just me, or is the whole bulletproof X concept starting over...
[20:53] <[31d1]> indus: screen is the bees knees though - well worth knowing how to use
[20:53] <cjwatson> working on udev/rsyslog
[20:54] <indus> [31d1]: thanks, i shall try it sure
[20:54] <cjwatson> I think upstart is actually ok, it's just taken out by other things
[20:54] <[31d1]> you can run stuff under screen and detach and logout and it will be there when you come back
[20:54] <[31d1]> great for being on irc all day :)
[20:54] <indus> is it ok to not understand much about udev and rsys and still stay in this channel: )
[20:54] <cjwatson> [31d1]: RMS didn't write screen
[20:54]  * _markus__ will boot into 9.04 from cd then ..
[20:55] <nOStahl> im fully upgraded now and everythings workin
[20:55] <indus> ok thanks all i go try it
[20:55] <[31d1]> cjwatson: fair enough, for some reason i thought i saw he did
[20:55] <cjwatson> nah, you can tell because it isn't GNU screen. :-)
[20:55] <cjwatson> err
[20:55] <[31d1]> i thought it was
[20:55] <cjwatson> hmm, apparently it is. :-) But nevertheless, the manual page doesn't indicate that RMS wrote it originally
[20:56] <[31d1]> hahah
[20:56] <BluesKaj> how does one retrieve files from a broken install using the live cd ?
[20:56] <cjwatson> Oliver Laumann and Wayne Davison originally, apparently
[20:56] <[31d1]> yeah wikipedia to the rescue :)
[20:57] <[31d1]> just went and looked meself
[20:57] <root> hi
[20:57] <root> wow root
[20:57] <kosinus> haha
[20:57] <kosinus> bad plan there
[20:57] <[31d1]> you got root
[20:57] <indus> i know :D
[20:57] <indus> ok myproblem is, apt is broken it seems,
[20:57] <bodly> BluesKaj: mount the filesystems you need, get networking up, copy files to another machine.
[20:57] <indus> some dpkg error socket dbus etc
[20:58] <indus> one packge initscripts held back it says too
[20:58] <CydeSwype> yeah, same here indus
[20:58] <indus> CydeSwype: so u too on irssi, or windows:)
[20:58] <[31d1]> same here, but X should be working again
[20:58] <CydeSwype> oh, neither, i reinstalled Alpha 5
[20:59] <BluesKaj> bodly , yeah makes sense
[20:59] <CydeSwype> the new install screens look great!
[20:59] <indus> [31d1]: x should ? how come
[20:59] <[31d1]> once i got upstart upgraded, i still have initscripts held back, but X works
[20:59] <indus> [31d1]: hmm not for me i believe
[20:59] <CydeSwype> though i noticed there's a screen touting pidgin as being the messenger for ubuntu...thought we were moving to empathy
[20:59] <[31d1]> :(
[20:59] <scizzo-> missing dependencies?
[21:00] <indus> also, apt wont upgrade so i used aptitude to upgrade
[21:00] <cjwatson> indus: yes, working on it
[21:00] <[31d1]> indus: do you have the bootsplash turned off so you can tell where booting gets weird?
[21:00] <indus> cjwatson: take your time , sir :)
[21:01] <cjwatson> hell no, I'm going as fast as I can
[21:01] <indus> [31d1]: well, i press alt-f1 to see,but hangs on many differnet things
[21:01] <[31d1]> ah, ok
[21:01] <indus> cjwatson: ok too
[21:01] <cjwatson> too many problems to leave around for longer than necessary
[21:01] <indus> cjwatson: colin j watson correct?
[21:01] <cjwatson> (BTW I'm just being build-monkey, not actually fixing the bugs)
[21:01] <cjwatson> indus: yes
[21:01] <ior3k> so the boot problems aren't fixed yet?
[21:02] <cjwatson> not quite
[21:02] <natewiebe13> so i take it by the title that the boot ending black is a common problem?
[21:02] <cjwatson> natewiebe13: indeed, we're working on it as fast as we can
[21:02] <natewiebe13> okay.. any ideas as to the problem?
[21:02] <indus> my problem is, getting this root shell was also only after a few reboots
[21:02] <CydeSwype> i hope someday i can be a build monkey...or something more than an irc lurker
[21:02] <indus> so dont want to go  check again
[21:02] <cjwatson> natewiebe13: yes, a bunch of builds happened rather seriously out of order such that we ended up unable to build anything further to fix it, and had to recover manually
[21:03] <madmike77_eee> natewiebe13: do use the ubuntu-boot ppa yet?
[21:03] <cjwatson> natewiebe13: we just landed a major reorganisation of the boot process ...
[21:03] <cjwatson> I wouldn't use the PPA
[21:03] <cjwatson> not at this point
[21:03] <DanaG> http://picpaste.com/EliteBook-karmic-20090915-1.png   -- Gnome is a slowpoke.
[21:03] <madmike77_eee> cjwatson: k
[21:03]  * genii thinks about rebooting now after the recent dist-upgrade and starts sweating!
[21:03] <indus> guys i have a very serious question,when exactly does the ppa stuff trickle into ubuntu normal repo
[21:03] <natewiebe13> cjwatson: i noticed.. usplash now fades in and out.. looks great
[21:04] <cjwatson> natewiebe13: oh, that was the least of it, that was just cosmetic ;)
[21:04] <cjwatson> indus: when the developer is ready
[21:04] <natewiebe13> looks good no matter what
[21:04] <natewiebe13> im running off the jaunty livecd for now
[21:05] <indus> cjwatson: i mean, why does dev add to ppa,in an alpha of ubuntu,shouldnt we be just getting cutting edge through non PPA( I mean regular repos)
[21:05] <cjwatson> indus: take the confusion in this channel today, and imagine it spread out over a period of weeks or even months
[21:05] <hype_> indus , because ubuntu has a release schedule? :D
[21:05] <scizzo-> indus: he did mention also to not use PPA
[21:06] <cjwatson> indus: we can't afford that level of disruption; while this wasn't the smoothest landing ever, it hasn't taken weeks out of everyone else's ability to work
[21:06] <cjwatson> the PPA was a staging area
[21:06] <kosinus> most projects, even in the development branch, have a policy like that to keep it in a working or at least buildable state.
[21:06] <cjwatson> right
[21:06] <indus> hype_: no u dont get the question,hmm for example, i had pulseaudio brekage and now i use ppa instead of regular stuff, i dont know now whether i remove the ppa and update from normal repos
[21:07] <hype_> PPA is still good for testing; ultimatly, the version of the PPA you use will be in the next release
[21:07] <cjwatson> if you want to know how a PPA behaves or is intended to behave, ask its owner
[21:07] <diverse_izzue> hey everyone. do other people have karmic installations that dont boot because of an unfinished upstart upgrade?
[21:07] <hype_> indus , yes you know: check insynaptic by exemple
[21:07] <cjwatson> diverse_izzue: yep, lots - we're working on it
[21:07] <hype_> you get the version, and the source of the package
[21:07] <indus> ok nvm thanks, bakc to main topic
[21:07] <scizzo-> diverse_izzue: read the topic
[21:08] <dk> the bug with upstart is fixex?
[21:08] <indus> i was wondering, apt seems broken, do is it possible to update ?
[21:08] <dk> fixed ?
[21:08] <cjwatson> dk: not quite
[21:08] <cjwatson> indus: not yet
[21:08] <[31d1]> DanaG: no idea what you mean http://lrrr.us/boot.png :P
[21:08] <cjwatson> I'm running the publisher now with new versions of udev and rsyslog, which *may* clear up some more of the problems
[21:08] <DanaG> That doesn't include the Gnome login.
[21:08] <MarkG> I heard that Karmic will ditch ARM support, which I find odd, as it's only just started.  Anyone know an official word on this?
[21:08] <cjwatson> but it's hard to say for sure
[21:09] <BluesKaj> so what's the excuse for this mess , are the devs all hiding out from this room . I know they're busy trying to fix the probs, but someone could take some responsibility and tell us plebes what is happening and give us a time line
[21:09] <cjwatson> MarkG: sounds like a garbled report
[21:09] <indus> cjwatson: apt gives some dbus error, though it does seem to scan all the repos,does it mean the fix can be downloaded via upgrades?
[21:09] <cjwatson> BluesKaj: hiding out? I'm a developer and have been here for some hours telling people what's happening
[21:09] <hype_> BluesKaj , use a stable release and to whine pls, thx
[21:09] <cjwatson> MarkG: we're dropping ARMv5 support, but ARMv7 will be supported
[21:09] <[31d1]> DanaG: how do i make bootchart include it?
[21:09] <hype_> s/to/dont
[21:09] <cbmuser> my init hangs at init-bottom now
[21:09] <DanaG> [ -x /lib/bootchart/collector ] || exit 0
[21:09] <DanaG> #sleep 45
[21:09] <cbmuser> like here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/398214
[21:09] <indus> who knows whats winbind
[21:09] <DanaG> that's /etc/init.d/stop-bootchart
[21:09] <MarkG> dang, armv5 is what I use :-(
[21:10] <CydeSwype> BluesKaj: i don't know that irc is the best forum for that.  there SHOULD be a twitter account or blog post or something though advising as to status
[21:10] <DanaG> I added it, but have commented it for next boot.
[21:10] <knittl> any news on the initscripts/upstart issue?
[21:10] <MarkG> any reason why?
[21:10] <natewiebe13> indus: for apt, boot into recovery mode and do a root terminal with networking
[21:10] <cjwatson> MarkG: I can't speak to the reasons; #ubuntu-arm might be a better place to ask
[21:10] <natewiebe13> it works for me to apt-get update
[21:10] <kosinus> indus: winbind is a samba service for netbios name lookups.
[21:10] <cjwatson> knittl: progressing slowly, the turnaround time is longer than I'd like
[21:10] <cjwatson> knittl: udev and rsyslog are publishing now which *may* clear up some problems
[21:10] <indus> kosinus: thank you, saw that name during the boot hang ups
[21:10] <tobixen> anyone has any information about the X breakage?  It seems like it broke quite recently
[21:11] <galtom> :)
[21:11] <hype_> i used "sudo start network-manger" to get a connection, using upstart language :)
[21:11] <BluesKaj> cjwatson:  good , at least yoiu ID'd yourself after I asked ..it's good to have some feedback about this mess tho.
[21:11] <scizzo-> tobixen: read the topic.....X should be fixed now though
[21:11] <[31d1]> DanaG: oh, you just made it sleep for another 45 seconds?
[21:11] <cjwatson> BluesKaj: I identified myself several times beforehand as well - you made an unjustified assumption :-)
[21:11] <knittl> cjwatson: i have no problem waiting, i just wanted to ask for the status :)
[21:11] <DanaG> yeah.
[21:11] <SKB> why might nautilus keep resorting desktop icons on every (re)start?
[21:11] <[31d1]> cool, good to know
[21:11] <BluesKaj> CydeSwype:  twitters for twits...don't have time for that
[21:11] <indus> cjwatson: hi, my question ... apt givessome dbus error,it doesnt mean its broken is it?
[21:11] <dutchie> it b0rked :(
[21:12] <dutchie> how can I fix X?
[21:12] <indus> dutchie: patience, its being worked on
[21:12] <dutchie> just wait for fixes?
[21:12] <tobixen> dutchie: read topic ;)
[21:12] <cjwatson> indus: that certainly sounds like it's broken
[21:12] <indus> cjwatson: damn !
[21:12] <dutchie> ah, of course
[21:12] <cjwatson> indus: I don't know about the specifics, I'm just trying to get builds back in order
[21:12] <cjwatson> we'll have more of an idea once we get everything built
[21:12] <scizzo-> dutchie: topic
[21:12] <BluesKaj> cjwatson: i just got here some 30 mins ago...din't see anything about it
[21:13] <cjwatson> BluesKaj: well, sorry that I didn't let you know personally ;-)
[21:13] <DanaG> yay, difftopic.
[21:13] <indus> cjwatson: subprocess returned error code, i try aptitude and then it got worse, got a root@none prompt
[21:13] <DanaG> handy plugin.
[21:13] <CydeSwype> BluesKaj: twitter, facebook, whatever.  the point is that the status of Karmic should be broadcast somewhere that anyone who cares to monitor it can.  irc is a forum for discussion, not broadcast, so is not as appropriate for "subscribing" to status updates
[21:13] <scizzo-> BluesKaj: give cjwatson a break
[21:13] <cjwatson> indus: trying to upgrade right now is a REALLY BAD PLAN. don't
[21:13] <indus> cjwatson: ok then i try tomorrow but np,i have windows :)
[21:13] <scizzo-> BluesKaj: the more you start arguing with a developer the longer time it will take for them to fix things....
[21:14] <indus> cjwatson: so basically, some builds have messed up ?
[21:14] <guntbert> <rant mode> hey people, you are using alpha software knowing that it can/will break things - the purpose should be to help testing - so what are you complaining about??? </rant mode>
[21:14] <cjwatson> indus: that's about the most simplified possible version of events :-), but yes
[21:14] <scizzo-> BluesKaj: all the arguing is a reason to why developers does not use IRC....
[21:14] <tobixen> CydeSwype: Twitter and facebook has so many dependencies ... X should work, firefox has to work, etc ;)
[21:15] <scizzo-> tobixen: not really
[21:15] <indus> cjwatson: build is a package(software) which is being built from source and then uploaded to the repos is this better?
[21:15] <BluesKaj>  scizzo- , are you a dev , and I'm not arguing ,..I complained , that's all
[21:15] <CydeSwype> tobixen: haha, good point, but I assume that many people have a cell phone they can get alerts on too even if their computer is fully hosed
[21:15] <scizzo-> tobixen: you could use links2
[21:15] <tobixen> scizzo-: point taken, w3m is my favorite non-X browser.
[21:15] <CydeSwype> guntbert: here here!
[21:15] <arand> What I do currently is lurk in the dev channel (note _lurk_) Thats pretty much the best for steady updates I figure.
[21:16] <scizzo-> BluesKaj: my point exactly.....
[21:16] <scizzo-> BluesKaj: I am not a dev.....if I was I would have said the exact same thing as I did before....
[21:16] <BluesKaj> anyway .I'm not doing any updates on this laptop
[21:17] <BluesKaj> scizzo-:  so.. ?
[21:17] <durt> any advice on how to get a prompt after the /scripts/init-bottom hang?
[21:18] <indus> cjwatson: it would be nice if possible to know, the process of building  a package (i mean a little steps as to what you are currently doing/fixing ) , whenever u have the time ;)
[21:18] <CydeSwype> durt, i was still able to boot to prompt by selecting recovery mode from grub
[21:19] <CydeSwype> arand, yeah that is the best way right now, but so much noise to dig through
[21:19] <cjwatson> indus: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive perhaps
[21:19] <indus> cjwatson: no browser ;|
[21:19] <durt> CydeSwype, hmmm, I get the same from regular or recovery selection.
[21:19] <[31d1]> when my boot was hanging i was able to get to another virtual terminal and get enough to fix things, but i used the old kernel - the new one seems to only have 1
[21:19] <indus> cjwatson: i read it some time
[21:19] <CydeSwype> durt: recovery should present you with a few options (like 6?) one of which is root prompt with networking
[21:20] <cbmuser> aha, updating upstart, rsyslog, udev and installing mountall fixes all the boot problems ;)
[21:20] <durt> CydeSwype, didn't see that, I'll take another look...
[21:20] <indus> CydeSwype: it doesnt present me with that options always
[21:20] <CydeSwype> cbmuser, does that mean the holds are off?
[21:21] <cjwatson> cbmuser: um. the versions of udev and rsyslog that initscripts doesn't declare Breaks on are still publishing
[21:21] <CydeSwype> indus, odd...i get it every time, on that last kernel option
[21:21] <oly_> i hit the same problem, rescue mode hangs as well
[21:21] <oly_> never gets to the options
[21:21] <nOStahl> hrmm evolution wont let me setup a new account
[21:21] <indus> CydeSwype: yeah super odd
[21:21] <[31d1]> cjwatson: is hostname one of the things that is getting fixed up?
[21:21] <cjwatson> cbmuser: I know because I have the terminal window with the publisher process right here in front of me :)
[21:21] <cbmuser> CydeSwype: I downloaded the packages and installed manually
[21:21] <oly_> and not found a way to break out of the process
[21:21] <arand> CydeSwype: true, (micro)blogging would give a better filter, bu then again, someone, who knows what's going on (i.e. could possibly be working on the problem), would have to write the posts...
[21:21] <cbmuser> I have udev 147
[21:21] <tankdriver1> durt:boot with livecd and use chroot
[21:21] <cjwatson> [31d1]: AFAICS hostname is actually OK. What architecture?
[21:21] <tankdriver1> nOStahl: this bug is known already
[21:21] <slacker_nl> loads of breakage today.. :/
[21:22] <CydeSwype> arand, it's either writing posts on twitter or posting in here.  roughly same time commit
[21:22] <[31d1]> 64 bit - initscripts is complaining about hostname and rsyslog only
[21:22] <[31d1]> ^ cjwatson
[21:22] <cjwatson> ah, bah, amd64 will take a little while longer to fix
[21:22] <durt> tankdriver1, I was thinking that, but I'll have to look it all up, and I'm lazy :)
[21:22] <cjwatson> sorry, hostname was fine on i386 so I didn't notice that
[21:22] <arand> CydeSwype: point.
[21:22] <indus> cjwatson: nooooooooooooooo ;)
[21:23] <ior3k_> I just chrooted from a live 9.04
[21:23] <ior3k_> but running aptitude update fails
[21:23] <[31d1]> cjwatson: i'm in no hurry - just hadn't noticed anyone saying anything about it. as long as someone knows about it im happy
[21:23] <tankdriver1> durt: only 5 lines in bash, and you have your shell
[21:23] <durt> tankdriver1, ya, breaking out the cds now...
[21:23] <ior3k_> with FATAL Could not set non-blocking flag - bad file descriptor
[21:23] <cbmuser> these versions work for me:
[21:23] <cbmuser> ii  mountall                       0.1.3                          filesystem mounting tool
[21:23] <cbmuser> ii  rsyslog                        4.2.0-2ubuntu3                 enhanced multi-threaded syslogd
[21:23] <cbmuser> ii  udev                           147~-1                         rule-based device node and kernel event manager
[21:24] <cbmuser> ii  upstart                        0.6.3-2                        event-based init daemon
[21:24] <cjwatson> [31d1]: I didn't know and I'm the one who needed to know, thanks for mentioning it
[21:24] <[31d1]> cjwatson: excellent!
[21:24] <arand> ior3k_: don't try tto upgrade yet, I don't think things are fixed.
[21:24] <indus> [31d1]: about what? say it again please
[21:25] <cjwatson> cbmuser: that's probably architecture-specific; most architectures do not have udev 147~-1 yet; amd64 is lucky
[21:25] <cjwatson> cbmuser: actually, I've no idea where you got rsyslog 4.2.0-2ubuntu3 :)
[21:25] <cjwatson> cbmuser: did you download that directly from Launchpad?
[21:25] <[31d1]> indus: i just mentioned to him that initscripts is complaining about hostname on x64, and i said excellent cause he said he was the one that needed to know that
[21:26] <cbmuser> cjwatson: yes, from launchpad
[21:26] <indus> [31d1]: u mean amd 64?
[21:26] <[31d1]> yeah
[21:26] <cjwatson> cbmuser: right - probably not quite suitable for most people to take the brakes off just yet :)
[21:26] <indus> [31d1]: iam on amd64 too
[21:26] <[31d1]> whatever the cool way to say 64 bit is
[21:26] <cjwatson> cbmuser: builds are available from the Launchpad web UI some time before they're available via apt
[21:27] <tankdriver1> durt: here is a short description: http://paste.ubuntu.com/271693/plain/
[21:27] <cbmuser> cjwatson: yes, I have realized that
[21:28] <durt> tankdriver1, thx
[21:30] <henrik__> is only amd64 broken now?
[21:31] <indus> [31d1]: hmm about hostname? didnt see that
[21:31] <indus> [31d1]: lost internet though and had to manually start it
[21:31] <indus> dhclient etho
[21:32] <cjwatson> henrik__: I'm not willing to say that i386 is fixed yet; it may still take some time
[21:32] <nOStahl> anyone know what to do about this evolution thing not letting me create an account
[21:32] <indus> would love to stay more but have to sleep , tomorrow work :)
[21:32] <cjwatson> there are certainly still going to be some problems
[21:32] <cjwatson> possibly even fatal ones
[21:32] <[31d1]> yeah, networking doesnt come up without initscripts I think. possib;y the same about dbus
[21:32] <indus> bye folks, good lucks
[21:32] <indus> good nights even
[21:33] <[31d1]> im way in the past, it's not even time for beer yet
[21:33] <henrik__> cjwatson: I'm on amd64 anyway. I have just been away and trying to catch up with the developments
[21:34] <BluesKaj> cjwatson: so how do I restore the kernel to my install that was stripped out upon reboot after the update. I have the live cd available .
[21:34] <cjwatson> BluesKaj: sorry, right now I don't know and I'm concentrating on getting the general upgrade fixes done and propagated
[21:35] <BluesKaj> ok, cjwatson, good luck :)
[21:37] <natewiebe13> cjwatson: any rough idea as to when karmic will be back up, or a way to find out when it will be back up?
[21:38] <cjwatson> natewiebe13: I'm not planning on finishing up today until the builds are roughly back in sync, and it's currently 9:40pm for me. That may give you some idea
[21:38] <cjwatson> I suppose we'll adjust channel topics or something once things are sane
[21:38] <David-T> karmic isn't in a working state?
[21:38] <natewiebe13> okay.. would it be fixed for alpha 6?
[21:39] <natewiebe13> David-T: not for me it isnt..
[21:39] <arand> David-T: not if you run/ran latest upgrades seemingly.
[21:39] <cjwatson> natewiebe13: we can't release alpha 6 without it being fixed
[21:39] <David-T> i seem to be running the latest upgrades
[21:39] <David-T> I guess i won't reboot
[21:39] <cjwatson> I wouldn't :)
[21:39] <arand> David-T: Yea, that's a good idea ;)
[21:40] <natewiebe13> cjwatson: yeah.. but i meant would it be fixed by thurs?
[21:41] <cjwatson> natewiebe13: I certainly hope so!
[21:41] <cjwatson> we're in trouble if we can't manage that :)
[21:41] <natewiebe13> alright.. great
[21:41] <nOStahl> hey cjwatson if you see the dev for gnome-bluetooth around the water cooler tell him to change line 393 of the wizard script so you can pair headsets heh
[21:41] <cjwatson> I'm not even sure I know offhand who does gnome-bluetooth - please file a bug if there isn't one already
[21:42] <nOStahl> its filed already
[21:42] <nOStahl> just ... if you see him around water cooler :P
[21:42] <cjwatson> I don't have a magic pipeline to speed that along
[21:42] <natewiebe13> cjwatson: also, do you know if there will be a gconf key added to change the xsplash background.. or will i have to continue changing the scripts?
[21:42] <nOStahl> i know
[21:42] <cjwatson> natewiebe13: don't know about xsplash, sorry
[21:42] <[31d1]> i filed a gnome-bluetooth bug today too!
[21:42] <[31d1]> bugbuddies!
[21:42] <CydeSwype> i just grabbed ubuntuPlusOne on twitter.  will post updates to that as i see them come across IRC
[21:42] <CydeSwype> https://twitter.com/UbuntuPlus1
[21:43] <[31d1]> "trending hashtags: #karmicfail" :P
[21:43] <CydeSwype> haha
[21:43] <natewiebe13> cjwatson: any idea as to who would know about that?
[21:43] <natewiebe13> ken vandine maybe?
[21:44] <cjwatson> natewiebe13: I don't know, personally I'd file a bug if I wanted to know :)
[21:44] <natewiebe13> alright.. thanks
[21:48] <henrik__> ls
[21:48] <henrik__> oops :-p
[21:51] <David-T> "This computer needs restarting to finish installing update.".... how about no? :)
[21:52] <natewiebe13> good choice [thumbs up]
[21:52] <trebtnug> not all is bad - I'm talking on a freshly upgraded, freshly rebooted amd64 karmic :-)
[21:52] <David-T> really
[21:53] <cjwatson> i386 is a *bit* happier (at least upgrades cleanly, may still not reboot cleanly), but amd64 is likely to still have upgrade problems
[21:53] <[31d1]> new rsyslog is in apt now
[21:53] <[31d1]> for amd64
[21:53] <[31d1]> only hostname is preventing initscripts
[21:54] <guntbert> believe trebtnug  - he is me :-), no serious: I tried it "just for fun" with a VM and I only had to start network-manager manually
[21:54] <cjwatson> [31d1]: indeed
[21:54] <cjwatson> it's publishing n ow
[21:54] <cjwatson> now
[21:55] <[31d1]> sweet
[21:58] <test34> glad to see this in the topic
[21:59] <ior3k_> before the boot broke, anyone else was having trouble starting up X?
[22:00] <test34> Can I do the next update without using a live CD
[22:00] <test34> ior3k, there was some problems with the nvidia driver before that problem
[22:00] <natewiebe13> test34: i was using the 190 drivers and had no issues before the boot problem
[22:01] <test34> natewiebe13, well many people did
[22:01] <ior3k_> natewiebe13: are the 190 drivers in a ppa?
[22:01] <galtom> hi
[22:01] <natewiebe13> i got them from ppa
[22:02] <natewiebe13> i think they were from launchpad.net/~thefirstm
[22:02] <natewiebe13> im on a livecd right now so im not too sure
[22:03] <ior3k_> natewiebe13: haha, that makes 2 of us
[22:03] <test34> ior3k, you can also just edit you /etc/X11/xorg.conf and use the "nv" driver instead of the "nvidia" (but 3d acceleration will stop working)
[22:03] <ior3k_> test34: nv doesn't work for me either
[22:03] <test34> oh, it did for me
[22:04] <ior3k_> nope, I just get a blank scree
[22:04] <ior3k_> the weird thing is that there is no error anywhere
[22:04] <ior3k_> this happens either using gdm or startx
[22:04] <ior3k_> however, if I do xinit gnome-session
[22:04] <ior3k_> it works, sort of
[22:04] <henrik__> yep, X is broken here too, nvidia, nv, vesa.. they start up but dump to terminal after the desktop is up
[22:04] <[31d1]> don't you have to do something else these days to get your xorg.conf even read?
[22:05] <hype_> ah, rsyslog update
[22:05] <test34> ior3k, that might be because of the new problem?
[22:05] <Cynthia> [/topic] So I see. Startup of the newest Karmic switches to vt1 (empty), then you have to use Ctrl+Alt+F7 to continue startup; the bottom Gnome Panel is transparent
[22:06] <ior3k_> test34: I got it before the upstart update
[22:06] <ior3k_> spend the entire day on console emacs :)
[22:06] <ior3k_> spent*
[22:07] <henrik__> was it mentioned that hostname is being published?
[22:07] <henrik__> is it up anywhere yet?
[22:07] <hype_> the rsyslog update fixes the issue?
[22:08] <test34> there seem to be a solution at: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1267183&page=3
[22:08] <test34> (a temporary solution)
[22:08] <henrik__> test34: are there many steps, or could it be condensed for the channel? I'm limited to one VT here.. :)
[22:09] <test34> sudo start dbus
[22:09] <test34> sudo start hal
[22:09] <test34> sudo start network-manager
[22:09] <test34> sudo start gdm
[22:09] <test34> sorry I should a used 1 line
[22:10] <test34> I didnt try this, but someone said it works: sudo start dbus ; sudo start hal ; sudo start network-manager ; sudo start gdm
[22:10] <natewiebe13> someone should test it out
[22:10] <henrik__> test34: heh, start doesn't seem to work for me, had to use /etc/init.d/...
[22:11] <test34> he started in recovery mode, then resumed and logged in in tty1
[22:11] <henrik__> but thanks, it works now
[22:11] <ior3k_> resumed?
[22:11] <ior3k_> I can't do anything in recovery mode either
[22:11] <ior3k_> it just sits there
[22:12] <Cynthia> for p in dbus hal network-manager gdm; do sudo /etc/init.d/$p start; done
[22:12] <Cynthia> :)
[22:12] <test34> I'm not sure what he means by resumed
[22:12] <natewiebe13> resume - resumes normal boot
[22:12] <ior3k_> right, but how? It blocks the same way it blocks in normal mode
[22:12] <natewiebe13> think its the top option on the recovery screen
[22:13] <natewiebe13> i get to tty1 after i did an upgrade
[22:14] <ior3k_> heh, to top it all off, I'm on the alpha5 live cd, chrooted to my boot drive and aptitude update doesn't work
[22:14] <ior3k_> fails with a bad file descriptor
[22:14] <tormod> ior3k_: did you bind-mount /proc and /dev
[22:15] <natewiebe13> i went into recovery mode.. a root term with networking and did an apt-get update && apt-get upgrade and worked just fine
[22:15] <ior3k_> tormod: I don't know bind-mount, do you mind explaining?
[22:16] <diverse_izzue> ior3k_: can you explain how you 'chroot to my boot drive and aptitude there'?
[22:16] <tormod> ior3k_: sudo mount -o bind /proc /media/karmic/proc
[22:16] <tormod> ior3k_: sudo mount -o bind /dev /media/karmic/dev/
[22:16] <droid2> So... I did updates and now my system is broken. I take it this is a known issue?
[22:16] <ior3k_> ahh, let me try that
[22:16] <ior3k_> diverse_izzue:
[22:17] <tormod> ior3k_: sudo cp  /etc/resolv.conf /media/karmic/etc/resolv.conf
[22:17] <wastrel> fancy. i am not going to update tonight eh :]  yay
[22:17] <ior3k_> just do chroot /media/[drive-uuid]
[22:17] <tormod> sudo chroot /media/karmic apt-get update  (and upgrade)
[22:18] <droid2> can someone help me repair my system? internet doesn't even seem to be working anymore... or keyboard, or mouse...
[22:19] <Smeuuh> ok, I installed the latest alpha this morning, and I'm trying to make sense of the new notification API. It seems the latest version ignores the append hint (or indeed replace the notifications instead of appending them), I'm trying https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=append-hint-example.py
[22:19] <ior3k_> w00t! tormod, I owe you a beer
[22:19] <Smeuuh> is it expected or did my installation go wrong ?
[22:19] <edgy> Hi, with the latest updates, I lost the network connection, no knetworkmanager icon, what can  I do please?
[22:20] <tormod> plus the workaround for https://launchpad.net/bugs/430224
[22:20] <edgy> is it only me?
[22:20] <droid2> edgy, seems related to the same issue I am having. only I also have no mouse and keyboard either.
[22:21] <tormod> edgy: everybody. read the log
[22:21] <edgy> tormod: you mean /var/log/messages?
[22:21] <Cynthia> use the ubuntu-boot PPA from Launchpad
[22:21] <droid2> log?
[22:21] <tormod> no the irc log :)
[22:21] <DasEi> edgy: which distro ? edgy ??
[22:22] <edgy> DasEi: karmic
[22:22] <droid2> i saw that karmic was broken, was there more info somewhere?
[22:22] <Cynthia> sudo apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys  09827771
[22:22] <DasEi> edgy: no idea, just set up a vm, gonna try..
[22:22] <diverse_izzue> ior3k_: i get the 'bad file descriptor' thing you mentioned above. what to do about that?
[22:22] <Cynthia> sudo echo "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-boot/ppa/ubuntu karmic main" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
[22:23] <dutchie> Cynthia: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-boot
[22:23] <Cynthia> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade # then you should be OK
[22:23] <ior3k_> diverse_izzue: check tormod's instructions. I'll paste them here
[22:23] <Cynthia> dutchie: add-apt-<tab> shows nothing here
[22:23] <ior3k_> [21:16] <tormod> ior3k_: sudo mount -o bind /proc /media/karmic/proc [21:16] <tormod> ior3k_: sudo mount -o bind /dev /media/karmic/dev/
[22:23] <ior3k_> [21:17] <tormod> ior3k_: sudo cp  /etc/resolv.conf /media/karmic/etc/resolv.conf
[22:23] <Cynthia> I tried that, I think someone told me to do sudo add-apt-archive though
[22:23] <droid2> tormod, how can I read the log?
[22:23] <dutchie> Cynthia: it's karmic only, I assumed, as this was #ubuntu+1 ..
[22:24] <tormod> droid2: irclogs.ubuntu.com
[22:24] <Cynthia> dutchie: yes, I'm in Karmic
[22:24] <ior3k_> diverse_izzue: replace karmic with the uuid of your drive, or make a symlink
[22:24] <dutchie> comes from python-software-properties
[22:24] <Cynthia> I ended up looking for "how to use PPA in Apt" on Google and using that guide
[22:24] <droid2> tormod, for what day?
[22:25] <dutchie> Cynthia: whc
[22:25] <ior3k_> looks like all dependency issues
[22:25] <diverse_izzue> ior3k_: so i mount proc and dev manually, and then do the apt-get update from chroot as before?
[22:25] <dutchie> Cynthia: which is depended on (eventually) by ubuntu-desktop
[22:25] <tormod> droid2: for right now :)
[22:25] <ior3k_> diverse_izzue: yes, don't forget to copy resolv.conf too
[22:25] <droid2> tormod, thank. =)
[22:26] <Cynthia> dutchie: oh. it's indeed -repository, someone definitely gave me -archive to run earlier
[22:26] <Cynthia> thanks
[22:26] <CydeSwype> woohoo!  partial upgrade time.  *crossing fingers*
[22:27] <CydeSwype> time for a topic change in the channel yet?
[22:27] <ior3k_> CydeSwype: looks like all dependency issues have been resolved
[22:27] <ior3k_> CydeSwype: but I'm not brave enough to reboot yet :)
[22:28] <CydeSwype> ior3k_: i'll take the plunge!
[22:28] <cjwatson> upgrades should work now or soon, but rebooting isn't all that wise yet
[22:28] <test34> I just did the upgrade and now rebooting
[22:28] <galtom> upgraded, rebooted, and working.
[22:28] <cjwatson> some people may be lucky
[22:28] <CydeSwype> 457 packages to update from alpha 5...this may take some time
[22:28] <galtom> :9
[22:28] <cjwatson> if you need your computer, if I were you, I'd leave it running
[22:29] <ior3k_> cjwatson: is there more work to do?
[22:29] <test34> cjwatson, I just cross my fingers
[22:29] <genii> cjwatson: Crap. Because I'm at work 1/2 hr past quitting time afraid to shut off my laptop and go anywhere now.
[22:29] <Dai> genii: no suspend?
[22:29] <test34> woohoo seem to work!
[22:29] <cjwatson> ior3k_: yes
[22:29] <genii> Dai: Conceivably I could. if it isn't on the break-list
[22:29] <cjwatson> suspend should be ok
[22:30] <test34> I followed tormod's instruction to upgrade from live CD
[22:30] <galtom> Thanks you.
[22:30] <genii> Well, here goes nothing then.
[22:31] <ior3k_> cjwatson: do you have time (and inclination) for a brief explanation of what's missing?
[22:31] <cjwatson> ior3k_: not really, sorry
[22:32] <ior3k_> cjwatson: understandable
[22:32] <cjwatson> ior3k_: not least because I don't actually know the full details myself, I merely know that there are a number of boot-relevant things that haven't built yet
[22:33] <ior3k_> cjwatson: oh, well, good luck then
[22:33] <tormod> LOOK HERE: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery (sorry for shouting)
[22:33] <tormod> and please correct/fix it up if needed
[22:34] <test34_> tormod, the only error I got using this method is that it can't save the log files
[22:34] <test34_> to /dev/pts I think
[22:35] <tormod> test34_: yes I saw that too, nothing important
[22:35] <test34_> but thanks tormod
[22:35] <henke> hostname is on apt
[22:35] <diverse_izzue> so after successfully upgrading in a chroot, should things work again?
[22:36] <tormod> diverse_izzue: I am not sure all the fixed packages are in the archive yet
[22:36] <test34_> tormod, I didn't do the following line and it still works: printf '#!/bin/sh\n\necho 101\n' | sudo tee -a /media/karmic/usr/sbin/policy-rc.d
[22:37] <diverse_izzue> tormod, which ones do i need?
[22:37] <cjwatson> all the fixed packages> they are not
[22:37] <tormod> test34_: don't you get a lot of "upstart" error messages?
[22:37] <cjwatson> I don't have a list
[22:37] <diverse_izzue> ok
[22:37] <cjwatson> but I know that the build servers fell over part-way through building the boot reorganisation
[22:37] <test34_> tormod, I didn't see any displayed on the screen or in dmesg
[22:37] <cjwatson> it'd be a good idea to give them a chance to catch up now that they seem to be able to automatically build things again
[22:45] <jtholmes> woo hoo they finally fixed save session for kubuntu 9.10 that was hosed for the last three releases thanks Kubuntu folks, nice job really helps
[22:46] <ubuntu> :(, can I get help, I did an update to the packages and grub-pc update and the result was that the system after starting usplash was givving a black screen, trying to use ubuntu CD it also fails to run gdm, any idea ?
[22:46] <hype_> ubuntu , check topic? :D
[22:46] <Cynthia> ubuntu: Ctrl+Alt+F1, Ctrl+Alt+F7
[22:47] <test34_> Anyone knows if the nvidia problem was also fixed?
[22:47] <Cynthia> this may work, but the current builds are all broken
[22:47] <eagles0513875> test34_: which nvidia issue
[22:47] <test34_> Cynthia, its fixed now
[22:47] <Wizzup> Aah, this explains the problems I got with my package manager? :)
[22:47] <ubuntu> hype_: I am running karmic, and I don't think I made a mistake
[22:47] <Cynthia> Wizzup: pkg::checkProblem or whatever the function name is?
[22:47] <[31d1]> yay, apt is caught up - networking still doesnt come up automatically - i guess there's other stuff that is off besides just things beng unable to install
[22:48] <jtholmes> ubuntu, I am afraid the channel topic says it all several things are currently broken
[22:48] <cjwatson> [31d1]: yes, that's what I've been trying to tell people
[22:48] <cjwatson> upgradeability isn't a complete guarantee at the moment
[22:48] <test34_> eagles0513875, you would get a black screen after booting if you use nvidia's driver
[22:48] <hype_> Cynthia , i instaled updates of syslog, initscripts and hostname: you think it fixed he issue? i'ma affraid of rebooting :p
[22:48] <eagles0513875> yes test34_
[22:48] <[31d1]> cjwatson: ok i'll try to tell them too :)
[22:48] <Cynthia> hype_: no idea
[22:48] <eagles0513875> for me what fixed it was installing the version from the nvidia site and it fixed that for me
[22:48] <Cynthia> wait until the /topic says builds have succeeded
[22:48] <Wizzup> Cynthia: Different, I got a blocking package that vlc,ffmpeg and some others depended on, and it kept wanting to install that.
[22:48] <eagles0513875> as well as it booting into a tty console
[22:48] <cjwatson> hype_: I would not recommend rebooting yet
[22:49] <test34_> 31d1, my networking came up automatically but I use static IP
[22:49] <Wizzup> It simple didn't allow me to remove, or isntall any package, cause installing that one package failed
[22:49] <Wizzup> simply*
[22:49] <[31d1]> fair enough
[22:49] <hype_> cjwatson okok
[22:49] <ubuntu> cjwatson: when I run the grub update it asked me for device and checked the only option I had, /dev/sda.
[22:49] <hype_> seems like they wanted to setup upstart today :)
[22:50] <Cynthia> yeah, the ubuntu-boot team is on fire! :D
[22:50] <ubuntu> jtholmes: I know that there are many things broken, but at least I want to know which is broken ?
[22:50] <tormod> setup/upset
[22:50] <test34_> hype, I did reboot and it worked if you want to take the chance;)
[22:50] <cjwatson> ubuntu: that should be ok
[22:50] <[31d1]> ubuntu: did you press space and make sure that /dev/sda was actually selected ie with an [*] and not a [ ]
[22:50] <hype_> test34_ , like, straight away? :p
[22:50] <tormod> karmic worksforme now
[22:51] <test34_> hype_, I did the update and everything worked fine (but I didnt test the nvidia driver yet)
[22:51] <ubuntu> [31d1]: yeah, I pressed space and it was choosen, it discovered the kernels available.
[22:51] <[31d1]> ok
[22:51] <cjwatson> powerpc is still going to be completely broken in karmic for a while
[22:51] <cjwatson> we have some technical problems with the powerpc build servers that make it impossible to build udev for the time being
[22:52] <cjwatson> the next proper upstream release of udev will resolve that, and is expected next week or thereabouts
[22:52] <ubuntu> [31d1]: this is the same machine, if you know how to check if everything is ok or not :)
[22:52] <ubuntu> I will do it
[22:54] <[31d1]> ubuntu: i dunno too much - but i was able to switch to another virtual terminal when boot was hanging, get networking up, run apt update/upgrade, and get X working again
[22:54] <[31d1]> i used an older kernel too
[22:54] <test34> even the nvidia driver works fine now
[22:55] <ubuntu> the strange thing that I am running a karmic dekstop cd which was burned in 21/07 and it worked fine before, but now gdm is not working with IO error, I feel that the grub update locked the HDD or something like that and it is not X problem
[22:57] <ubuntu> cjwatson: is there any way to run grub to update the hard disk installed karmic from the desktop CD  ?
[22:58] <hype_> well, still have to start network manually after booting
[22:59] <test34> ubuntu, try this:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery
[23:00] <eagles0513875> test34: did you test the nvidia driver from repos or the one from the site
[23:00] <test34> eagles0513875, I have the default one from the repo
[23:00] <eagles0513875> and it worked for u
[23:00] <eagles0513875> or not
[23:00] <test34> it now works
[23:00] <cjwatson> ubuntu: grub is just a boot loader, it can't do package updates for you
[23:00] <eagles0513875> for me it wouldnt work and the only way to get any desktop to work was to use the one from the nvidia site
[23:00] <eagles0513875> strange
[23:01] <test34> eagles0513875, last night it didnt work for me either
[23:01] <ubuntu> cjwatson: I meant that if I want to change grub configuration for already installed ubuntu without running it using the CD
[23:01] <test34> after the updates it works again
[23:01] <eagles0513875> didnt work for me after the updates to the glibc or what ever
[23:01] <ubuntu> test34: I don't have any machine around me :(
[23:02] <test34> ubuntu, did you mess up your grub config or you system stopped working after an update?
[23:03] <cjwatson> ubuntu: as long as you can get to the menu, you can press 'e' to edit the boot menu on the fly
[23:03] <cjwatson> changes won't persist, but it'll work for one boot
[23:04] <BluesKaj> the live cd terminal can't find the karmic partition on either dev/sda2 or /media/karmic
[23:05] <gnata> ok. 3hours ago theboot sequence was fully broken. I fixed it using manual .deb install. now aptitude safe-upgrade wants me to ungrade  hostname initscripts rsyslog
[23:05] <gnata> should I do it?
[23:05] <ubuntu> test34: I did an update, and after six hours I made a grub update [I forgot that I made an update :(] and my target to know which made the problem. I feel it is grub because an old ubuntu CD is affected when trying to login with IO errors
[23:05] <gnata> Source: sysvinit
[23:05] <gnata> Version: 2.87dsf-4ubuntu1
[23:06] <ubuntu> cjwatson: I tried e but grub was not responding
[23:06] <gnata> is this thing ok or broken?
[23:06] <gnata> it conflits with mostly everything in /etc/init.d/
[23:07] <gnata> soooooory. Conffiles:...
[23:07] <gnata> oups...
[23:09]  * ubuntu restarting ...  maybe things changes !
[23:09] <BenCal> booting hangs showing "pci_enable_pcie_error_reporting failed", recovery mode hangs as well - what would be my best course of action to apply the updates? desktop cd of original install hangs, too :(
[23:09] <gnata> well...let's give it a try
[23:10] <DanaG> argh, every danged time I boot, I get "superblock last write time is in the future.  forcing check."
[23:10] <cjwatson> DanaG: bug 427822
[23:12] <DanaG> weird... it's happening for me, even though I'm WEST of utc.
[23:13] <Bookman> I just upgraded to Alpha 5 but I cannot get Gnome started.  How can I enable my wired network from the command line so that I get see if the updates are complete or not.  It only did a partial upgrade.
[23:13] <Trewas> and that has been happening for me (east of UTC) even with cleanly unmounted filesystems
[23:13] <Cynthia> the bug says "in the future" for everyone, and it's worse for those who are east of UTC?
[23:14] <Cynthia> because I'm in GMT-4 and it happened for me
[23:15] <gnata> oups
[23:15] <gnata> fuse:failed to create temporary  directory
[23:16] <duffydack> the "future" thing happened to me other day when I installed it
[23:16] <gnata> aka "it does not boot anymore"
[23:16] <Trewas> from the bug report (bug #427822) sounds like it should happen only with unclean shutdown when you are east of UTC, but that is clearly wrong
[23:16] <BluesKaj> cjwatson: guess Im screwed on the desktop install , grub is missing the kernel list and the karmic live cd doesn't see the karmic partition
[23:17] <cjwatson> Trewas: or you actually have a slightly different problem with similar symptoms
[23:17] <cjwatson> don't fall into the trap of thinking that if the symptom is the same then the bug is the same ...
[23:18] <keith2> when I try running "sudo start network-manager", it keeps starting and getting killed by ABRT signal. anyone have a suggestion?
[23:18] <Trewas> cjwatson: could be, but I have never seen that error before (well for some weeks in karmic)
[23:19] <BluesKaj> cjwatson:  let me rephrase that grub doesn't show the kernel list, only the memtest and windows
[23:20] <cjwatson> Trewas: yes, a sledgehammer workaround was removed in order that we could try to discover why it was needed
[23:20] <cjwatson> BluesKaj: I'm sorry, I don't know the answer, I've been working for over 12 hours pretty much straight
[23:20] <cjwatson> BluesKaj: maybe your kernel packages actually got deinstalled in which case you will have to reinstall them somehow
[23:21] <BluesKaj> ok, cjwatson we appreciate your efforts , believe me...think i'll just reinstall
[23:21] <zniavre_> avahi-daemon gdm hal network-manager rysolg are all switched-off in rcconf what could happen if i switch them on ?
[23:22] <zniavre_> (fresh install)
[23:22] <Trewas> cjwatson: so there was some heuristic for last mount time like "if it's up to 24h in future, it's ok" before?
[23:22] <cjwatson> Trewas: I forget the details, but I guess it was something like that
[23:22] <Trewas> cjwatson: just curious, but that would seem quite reasonable to me :)
[23:22] <gnata> I'm gonna try to but on whatever and to kill fuse
[23:22] <cjwatson> removing the workaround has already uncovered a kernel bug, so I think it was the right thing to do
[23:23] <cjwatson> Trewas: if it still breaks after the kernel bug is clearly fixed (give it a while, as the kernel was affected by the general buildd outage today, and in any case it's only been fixed for ext4 so far not ext3), then I'd encourage you to file another bug, perhaps on e2fsprogs
[23:24] <cjwatson> but let the upgrades trickle through first to avoid unnecessary duplicates
[23:24] <Trewas> cjwatson: ok
[23:26] <CydeSwype> cjwatson, is the topic still valid here?  i was able to complete the partial upgrade via update-manager from alpha 5, but haven't rebooted yet.  any other update in status?
[23:28] <cjwatson> CydeSwype: build servers are back on auto, but they have a long backlog to churn through; I'm not comfortable declaring that things are relatively safe again until they've cleared that backlog
[23:28] <cjwatson> and I'm going to bed :-)
[23:28] <DKcross> now i have server X:D
[23:28] <CydeSwype> hehe  very good.  thanks cjwatson!
[23:28] <DKcross> upstart is running:D
[23:28] <BluesKaj> cjwatson:  i'm doing a clean install ,after it's done, should i hold off the updates til tomorrow ?
[23:29] <cjwatson> BluesKaj: personally I'd go have a beer and leave the whole thing to tomorrow, if I were you
[23:29] <keith2> Does anyone know why I can't start network-manager manually?
[23:29] <cjwatson> BluesKaj: but if you're installing something moderately stable such as alpha 5 then that might be ok; definitely don't upgrade until tomorrow
[23:30] <BluesKaj> hehe, ok cjwatson , roger, got that
[23:30] <cjwatson> keith2: half-complete boot reorganisation in karmic? wait a bit, upgrade, see if it still happens ...
[23:30] <keith2> cjwatson, don't i need an internet connection for that?
[23:30] <cjwatson> particularly, the updated ifupdown isn't on the mirrors yet
[23:31] <cjwatson> keith2: you may have to bring one up by hand, or use a more stable live CD plus https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery
[23:31] <cjwatson> perils of a development release
[23:31] <keith2> cjwatson, naturally. thanks for the advice.
[23:34] <mrmcq2u> Is it unsafe to upgrade from 9.04 at present?
[23:34] <BluesKaj> keith2:  unfortunately network manager is bit shaky , i've been recommending wicd as an alternative, but it's somewhat injured right now as well.
[23:34] <vistakiller> i just fix network-manager with reinstall it
[23:34] <vistakiller> too many problems after the upgrade to karmic
[23:35] <vistakiller> too many crash reports
[23:35] <cjwatson> mrmcq2u: yes
[23:35] <vistakiller> no sound with pulse and when i put alsa i dont have sound in flash
[23:35] <cjwatson> mrmcq2u: today is not a happy day; try again tomorrow
[23:35] <mrmcq2u> so there is some breakage in the repo atm?
[23:36] <pwnguin> mrmcq2u: so I hear
[23:36] <Dai> mrmcq2u: that's about like saying JFK was "mildly wounded"
[23:36] <cjwatson> yes, there is
[23:36] <Dai> except ubuntu is going to get better.
[23:36] <keith2> "I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow's not looking good either."
[23:36] <pwnguin> apparently you cant build upstart and sysvinit at different times
[23:36] <mrmcq2u> I wasnt sure as I heard lots of reports on ubuntu forums but thought it was over a third party boot repo
[23:38] <DanaG> hmm, so what do I do about the "last write time is in future"?
[23:39] <Cynthia> workaround: sudo ln -sf /usr/share/zoneinfo/GMT /etc/localtime
[23:39] <CydeSwype> mrmcq2u: started a twitter account where i'll post status updates as cjwatson and others issue them here: https://twitter.com/cjwatson
[23:39] <CydeSwype> if you just want to follow the status
[23:40] <cjwatson> uhh
[23:40] <cjwatson> you mean you're impersonating me on twitter?
[23:40] <cjwatson> I'd really rather appreciate it if you didn't do that
[23:40] <mrmcq2u> cydeswype - new episode of heroes out?
[23:40] <mrmcq2u> lol
[23:41] <CydeSwype> cjwatson: no just summarizing updates here
[23:41] <cjwatson> and indeed that twitter account is already owned by somebody else
[23:41] <cjwatson> CydeSwype: feel free, but don't call the relevant account 'cjwatson', please
[23:41] <cjwatson> that makes it look like it's me posting directly
[23:41] <CydeSwype> cjwatson, already corrected
[23:42] <cjwatson> TBH there's not likely to be huge amounts more status to post
[23:42] <cjwatson> it just needs to build a vast pile of stuff now
[23:42] <cjwatson> but it'll do that without human intervention, I hope
[23:42] <CydeSwype> sure, but next distro if there's an event like this, would be nice to not have to search the forums or clutter up irc looking for status
[23:43] <cjwatson> I guess
[23:43] <cjwatson> what did you call the account?
[23:43] <CydeSwype> ubuntuplus1
[23:43]  * pwnguin wonders how often the #ubuntu+1 topic changes
[23:43] <cjwatson> CydeSwype: ah, much better, thanks
[23:43] <komputes> Does anyone here use, or is willing to test openarena in karmic?
[23:44] <pwnguin> i bet you could just push topic changes from ubotto into an RSS feed
[23:44] <CydeSwype> and cjwatson, if you want to post your own updates, you're welcome to  ;^)  i'm happy to do it though if that makes life easier
[23:44] <cjwatson> nah, I don't do microblogging
[23:44] <CydeSwype> pwnguin, i was considering that...i've written bots in the past and it probably wouldn't be hard to do a twitter integration there
[23:44] <pwnguin> CydeSwype: i dont care about twitter, just want an RSS feed :P
[23:45] <keith2> you can get twitters as a feed though
[23:45] <CydeSwype> pwnguin, you get rss with twitter
[23:45] <keith2> lol
[23:45] <pwnguin> just saying twit is not a requirement
[23:45] <pwnguin> and given we already publish irclogs
[23:46] <pwnguin> it seems like it would be simplest to just add a feed generator to the html generator
[23:48] <vistakiller> and something else
[23:49] <vistakiller> why all the linux distro stuck with that crap software named pulseaudio?
[23:49] <pwnguin> because people like bluetooth headsets
[23:49] <vistakiller> i dont have sound in flash and to other porgrammes and my sound come back after i remove it
[23:49] <vistakiller> but is very crap
[23:49] <pwnguin> flash is crap software
[23:49] <vistakiller> one year now the ppl have problem with pulseaudio
[23:49] <vistakiller> in all distros
[23:50] <keith2> i like pulseaudio. =)
[23:50] <vistakiller> i like it when was only in ubuntu
[23:50] <vistakiller> i dont like it now that is come with kubuntu :P
[23:51] <pwnguin> pulse audio provides a layer of abstraction over sound hardware, so you can do things like direct sound over network protocols
[23:51] <keith2> pulseaudio solved/simplified a lot of issues I had with alsa
[23:51] <vistakiller> yeah but you canot do simple things anymore :P
[23:51] <vistakiller> like to hear sound from flash
[23:51] <pwnguin> you can, flash choses not to
[23:52] <keith2> i have sound from flash
[23:52] <vistakiller> i dont have in kubuntu
[23:52] <vistakiller> i run 64 system with 32 flash player
[23:53] <keith2> i run 64 too, and I use whatever the restricted-extras installs
[23:53] <vistakiller> me too
[23:53] <vistakiller> i dont know why this happen but i found and a bug report in lanchpad
[23:53] <vistakiller> i am not alone..
[23:54] <pwnguin> here's adobe's take on it
[23:54] <pwnguin> http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2007/05/welcome_to_the_jungle.html
[23:54] <keith2> rebooting after a chroot recovery... *crosses fingers*
[23:55] <gnata> recovery from which bug?
[23:55] <keith2> the bug where everything broke in recent updates
[23:55] <vistakiller> yes
[23:55] <vistakiller> i just recover for that
[23:55] <gnata> on my box it is fuse which cannot create a temp
[23:56] <keith2> gotta fsck everything again
[23:56] <vistakiller> but every time i login i have to reinstall network manager
[23:56] <vistakiller> because is not working
[23:56] <vistakiller> ok i dont complain is alpha version
[23:56] <vistakiller> good night all :)
[23:56] <keith2> i like learning from these things
[23:57] <vistakiller> me too
[23:57] <keith2> night
[23:57] <XmagusX> Interesting bit of fun -- after the latest round of updates, my system no longer boots, siting an error "fsck died with exit status 8."  Running XFS
[23:57] <mrmcq2u> is there any feature freeze exemption for telepathy-butterfly?
[23:58] <XmagusX> Anyone have any suggestions on this one?
[23:58] <pwnguin> XmagusX: step 1, figure out what exit status 8 means
[23:58] <mrmcq2u> the latest version has support for voice/video.
[23:59] <pwnguin> hmm. not good: 8    - Operational error
[23:59] <keith2> hooray! my system is operational again!
[23:59] <keith2> well, still no internet maybe...