[00:40] <rickspencer3-afk> robert_ancell, hi
[00:40] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3-afk, hi rick
[00:40] <rickspencer3-afk> gotta run, but checking in on that empathy in the message menu thing
[00:40] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3-afk, working on it, battling git :)
[00:40] <rickspencer3-afk> bug #340180
[00:40] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3-afk, should be finished by today
[00:41] <rickspencer3-afk> aah, git
[00:41] <rickspencer3-afk> ok, just making sure  you didn't need anything from me or anyone else
[00:41] <rickspencer3-afk> enjoy!!
[00:41] <rickspencer3-afk> :)
[00:41] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3-afk, no, should be ok
[00:41] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Can I be of any help re git?
[00:41]  * TheMuso is no master of it, but is used to working with it now.
[00:42] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, hopefully :) So I need to pull James' branch from github, merge it with the head, then push it to my github - what is the process?
[00:42] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, I got the merge working but format-patch doesn't show my changes and I can't work out how to push
[00:44] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: I haven't had to deal with merging yet, but probably something along the lines of, fetch the branch you want to merge as a remote, so "git remote add james git://git.address/of/git-repo.git". Then use git log to see the diference between them.
[00:44] <TheMuso> then probably something like git merge james/master
[00:44] <TheMuso> and deal with conflicts
[00:44] <robert_ancell> and I do that with a git remote add first?
[00:45] <TheMuso> Well I find that itas easier to have remote branhes I pull from as remotes. Origin is a remote so you can have as many remotes as  you like.
[00:45] <TheMuso> So when you clone a branch, origin is the remote of the branch you cloned, so you only need to update origin in order to work with it.
[00:46] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, ok, can you show me the exact commands in a pastebin?
[00:47] <robert_ancell> head is: ssh://rancell@git.gnome.org/git/empathy
[00:47] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Since I've never worked with git merging I don't know how to use it, but adding a remote is simply "git remote add remotename git-repo-address"
[00:47] <robert_ancell> remote is: git://github.com/james-w/empathy.git
[00:47] <robert_ancell> ah, ok
[00:48] <robert_ancell> so I added the remote, made a new branch, merged the changes, fixed conflicts, 'git add' on the fixed files, 'git commit', but my new changes don't show up in format patch. And I have no idea how to push all that to a new git repo
[00:50] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: How are you calling git-format-patch?
[00:50] <robert_ancell> git format-patch origin/new_branch
[00:51] <TheMuso> Is origin/new_branch what you originally used to base your changes and merge james' branch on?
[00:51] <robert_ancell> I think so?
[00:52] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: You might find it easier to call git format-patch with the has of the last common commit, i.e the last commit before your changes and the merge.
[00:52] <TheMuso> hash
[00:53] <robert_ancell> ok
[00:53] <TheMuso> Git-format-patch can either work by giving it individual hashes for commits you want as patches, or the last commit as a base, which then makes all the subsequent commits hashes.
[00:53] <TheMuso> s/hashes/patches/
[00:55] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: And finally to push, you can either set up another remote to point to a branch you want to push to, and push using "git push remotename branchname", or use an URL, "git push url://to.repo/git-repo.git branchname"
[00:55] <robert_ancell> ok, thanks
[00:55] <TheMuso> If you want to push the contents of another branch in your repo, i.e one thats not checked out, you simply change branchname to localbranchname:remotebranchname
[01:16] <Amaranth> yay, found a fix for the invisible panels
[01:30] <kenvandine> robert_ancell, hey man... how's the empathy hacking?
[01:30] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, coming along, git is the hardest part :)
[01:30] <kenvandine> i know... i hate git
[01:30] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: How did you go?
[01:31] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, working on the code at the moment, will do the git bit later
[01:31] <kenvandine> i still swear it is linus' way of seeing how much people are willing to endure just because he said it is cooler
[01:32] <robert_ancell> totally
[01:33] <Amaranth> kenvandine: it's smokin' fast
[01:34] <kenvandine> for most projects the difference isn't that big... but i can see that for the kernel
[01:34] <Amaranth> and it calls PAGER automatically when showing `git log`
[01:34] <kenvandine> well that is nice
[01:34] <kenvandine> it is like the only thing it makes easy :)
[01:34] <Amaranth> I always forget that then lose all my scrollback in my terminal when using bzr
[01:34] <kenvandine> otherwise it seems to me it is designed to torture users
[01:34] <Amaranth> the only really hard part is dealing with remote branches
[01:35] <robert_ancell> which is what I'm dealing with now...
[01:35]  * Amaranth tries to remember the magic
[01:35] <kenvandine> robert_ancell, i had figured that out at gcds.. but forgotten now
[01:35] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: git checkout --track -b mybranch origin/remote-branch-name
[01:36] <Amaranth> that'll make git pull automatically update from the remote branch too
[01:36] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, do you need to make mybranch first? What is the naming format for mybranch?
[01:36] <Amaranth> if you leave out --track you get a one-time pull from the branch
[01:36] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: no, you don't need to make it first
[01:36] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: I usually do git checkout --track -b compiz-0.8 origin/compiz-0.8
[01:37] <Amaranth> for a real life example
[01:37] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, is there a 'git info' or similar that will show me what I've got checked out and what is being tracked/linked etc?
[01:37] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: git status
[01:38] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, doesn't tell me a lot :(
[01:38] <Amaranth> just what branch you're on
[01:40] <Amaranth> a `git info` would be really helpful, I know git has that information
[01:40] <robert_ancell> yeah
[01:40] <Amaranth> because otherwise you'd have to give full URLs for push and pull
[01:42] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: also this might help you: http://www.gnome.org/~federico/misc/git-cheat-sheet.txt
[01:43] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, I've never had a problem with full URLs in other VCSs.  There's nothing wrong with being explicit (and you can always add an alias system on top)
[01:47] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: sure
[01:47] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: although in this case you'd want to do git push origin/compiz-0.8
[01:47] <Amaranth> although it should handle that for you and `git push` should work but that would be considering being explicit for git
[01:48] <Amaranth> s/considering/considered/
[01:48] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: btw, the change you made to compiz to disable constrain_y is very bad
[01:48] <Amaranth> you can now freely move windows in a way that requires you to use alt-click to get them back
[01:48] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, yes, I've been working on some patches to fix that behaviour properly
[01:49] <robert_ancell> (i.e. behave like metacity)
[01:49] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: The move plugin should ignore contrain_y when the window is either taller than the work area or you're using alt-click
[01:49] <robert_ancell> The resize plugin has the same problem as it has no panel detection
[01:50] <Amaranth> ouch, yeah
[01:50] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: I'm going to have mvo revert that change to disable contrain_y though. If we can't get a proper fix having that bug is better than the bug we have now
[01:51] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, sure, no prob.  The compiz work keeps getting displaced by higher priority stuff but I plan to have the patches ready by Karmic
[02:28] <RoAkSoAx> Keybuk, ping
[02:29] <Keybuk> RoAkSoAx: yes?
[02:30] <RoAkSoAx> Keybuk, is the webapp for requesting sponsorship supposed to stay like this: http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1645/screenshot1th.th.png, after finishing?
[02:31] <Keybuk> RoAkSoAx: you'll need to talk to jcastro
[02:31]  * Keybuk isn't involved with UDS this time
[02:31] <RoAkSoAx> Keybuk, oh ok, since there was a message that was saying that if there was any problem with the webapp we should contact you
[02:31] <jcastro> RoAkSoAx: hmm, all you get is that blank page?
[02:33] <RoAkSoAx> jcastro, yes, and in the botton bar keeps changing from "waiting for login.launchpad.net" and "waiting for summit.ubuntu.com"
[02:33] <jcastro> hmm, lame
[02:33] <jcastro> RoAkSoAx: ok, well at least your submission went through
[02:35] <RoAkSoAx> jcastro, here's a better screenshot: http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1645/screenshot1th.png
[02:35] <RoAkSoAx> jcastro, ok cool thanks for the confirmation :)
[02:37] <jcastro> RoAkSoAx: I'll have someone look at it tomorrow, but it looks like the requests are coming in
[02:38] <RoAkSoAx> jcastro, ok :)
[02:38] <jcastro> I'll make sure we change the address too so Keybuk doesn't get all the spam
[06:49] <mac_v> robert_ancell: hi... regarding Bug #409828 , are you fixing that as well along with the other empathy stuff?
[06:49] <robert_ancell> mac_v, no plans at the moment - it doesn't appear to be in the indicator code
[06:50] <mac_v> robert_ancell: hrm... i'v tried to look into the empathy bzr code , and it seems it needs a new image define , is such a patch allowed ?
[06:51] <robert_ancell> new image define?
[06:52] <mac_v> empathy uses > EMPATHY-IMAGE-NEW-MESSAGE as the image for the notifications
[06:52] <mac_v> that points to im-message-new
[06:52] <robert_ancell> mac_v, which file?
[06:52] <mac_v> just a sec
[06:56] <Zdra> libempathy-gtk/empathy-images.h
[06:56] <Zdra> what's wrong with im-message-new ?
[06:56] <mac_v> robert_ancell: /src/empathy-event-manager.c , /src/empathy-chat-window.c
[06:57] <mac_v> Zdra: that is not what notify-osd has to use for the notifiations :)
[06:58] <robert_ancell> mac_v, that is pointing at "im-message-new"
[06:58] <mac_v> yeah
[06:59] <mac_v> so if we are to use the notify-osd icon we need to use a new image define
[06:59] <mac_v> pointing to > notification-message-im
[07:00] <robert_ancell> mac_v, hmm, I guess it would require a freeze request https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze
[07:01] <robert_ancell> mac_v, so if you want to do the freeze request then the change can go in
[07:02] <mac_v> yeah , but its very minor and not having it would make the default to look awkward
[07:02] <mac_v> can a new one like > EMPATHY_IMAGE_NOTIFY_MESSAGE   , be used?
[07:05] <Amaranth> mac_v: is that public API/
[07:05] <Amaranth> ?
[07:06] <mac_v> Amaranth: hehe , i'm not sure , i came up with that ;p
[07:07] <Amaranth> mac_v: Right but if the empathy-images.h file gets shipped as something other apps use when using libempathy-gtk you can't add API in an Ubuntu patch
[07:07] <Amaranth> you'll have to make the define somewhere private or just skip the define and use the right icon directly where needed
[07:08] <Zdra> mac_v: why isn't im-message-new correct for notification?
[07:08] <Zdra> mac_v: what looks like that notification-message-im ?
[07:09] <mac_v> Amaranth: hrm... thats what i thought first , but the image is called by the define so , ok will see how to set the image itself :)
[07:09] <mac_v> Zdra: thats a color one and notify-osd uses greyscale icons
[07:10] <Zdra> mac_v: should be notification-im-message-new IMO
[07:10] <Zdra> to respect naming of icons
[07:11] <mac_v> hehe , thats what naming human theme comes with ;)
[07:11] <mac_v> s/what/the
[07:12] <Zdra> mac_v: ok, so if you want an ubuntu specific patch for that (I don't think it makes sense upstream) you just have to add a define in empath-images.h and use that in empathy-event-manager.c
[07:13] <Zdra> mac_v: but what if I don't use the human theme?
[07:13] <Zdra> mac_v: that icon name won't exist, so it will break all other themes
[07:13] <mac_v> Zdra: notify-osd uses the human theme as a fallback , if the custom theme doesnt have the icon then it will use the human's icon
[07:14] <Zdra> ah
[07:15] <mac_v> all the labels notification-* are ubuntu specific only ,since we are the proud users of notify-osd ;p
[07:15] <mac_v> Zdra: so a new define can be used in the ubuntu patch?
[07:17] <Zdra> mac_v: Hm, Amaranth's remark is correct, that would mean that ubuntu adds API
[07:17] <mac_v> :(
[07:17]  * mac_v finds it easier hacking stuff for personal use ;p
[07:17] <Zdra> mac_v: so probably you should just change in empathy-event-manager and set there the new name
[07:18] <mac_v> hmm... ok
[07:18] <Amaranth> the define is only useful because multiple things are using the same icon and you don't want redundant code
[07:18] <Amaranth> that way if you want to change the icon you change one place
[07:19] <Amaranth> but this new icon will only be used in one place so there is no reason for a define anyway
[07:20] <mac_v> ^ that makes sense , guess i was just try to make it uniform^
[07:26] <mac_v> Amaranth: any luck with the logout plugin?
[07:26] <Amaranth> mac_v: haven't looked at it again
[07:26] <Amaranth> mac_v: we're probably not going to be able to do it, user interface freeze and all
[07:26] <mac_v> ah, there are several papercuts , that havent been done yet
[07:27] <mac_v> so are we just going to stop?
[07:28] <mac_v> Amaranth: this was an easier one than most others which havent even been looked into , hence i had i confirmed... so if freeze is blocking :(
[07:29]  * mac_v not updating compiz , worried it might break the plugin ;p
[07:30] <mac_v> i think david was banking on the global bug jam , to finish the papercuts
[07:32] <Amaranth> I wish you could stop accepting bug reports for a project
[07:32] <Amaranth> the "hundred papercuts" has over 400 open bugs :P
[07:33] <Amaranth> it should only have like 10 or 20 left assuming things have gone well in previous rounds
[07:33] <Amaranth> hey mvo
[07:38] <mvo> hey Amaranth
[07:38] <mac_v> Amaranth: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=FIXRELEASED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_cve.used=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY  , so really havent gone well in previous rounds ;p
[07:38] <mac_v> so things* really
[07:38] <Amaranth> mvo: got a couple compiz related things
[07:39] <Amaranth> mvo: most important is that we get http://git.compiz.org/compiz/core/commit/?h=compiz-0.8&id=d8285f4f8c6ca50b69965a225c36cdad1e456d24
[07:39] <Amaranth> otherwise you get invisible panels at login
[07:39] <Amaranth> mvo: everything else I actually want to work on some more tomorrow, just wanted to make sure you saw that before I went to bed
[07:40] <mvo> Amaranth: yeah, I noticed the panels already, thanks for the git link
[07:41] <mvo> Amaranth: thanks, I will do a update on this today
[07:41] <Amaranth> took me and cornelius a bit of poking to figure out that fix but seb128 made it really easy by letting me know a snapshot from 7 days ago worked
[07:41] <Amaranth> only had to roll back the latest 3 commits and bam, working fine again :)
[07:43] <mvo> heh :) yeah, good thing that I packaged the snapshots (and that seb tested them so careful)
[07:43]  * mvo hugs Amaranth and cornelius
[07:43] <Amaranth> cornelius is still working on another bug that only affects nvidia users that is similar, he thinks it may have a similar fix
[07:44] <Amaranth> but it is less important since it only happens when you have a bunch of windows open when you start compiz
[07:44] <Amaranth> oh, and mac_v wants us to finally use the logout plugin
[07:45] <mac_v> Amaranth: wasnt it having the same effect in hardy too? without the plugin?
[07:45] <mvo> interessting idea, it does need a update I think, its currently not working
[07:46] <mvo> well, config needs update :)
[07:46] <Amaranth> mac_v: yeah but that was the dialog itself
[07:46] <Amaranth> mvo: and we should probably disable unredirect fullscreen windows
[07:46] <Amaranth> it causes more issues than it fixes and intel seems to run 3D apps fine without it now
[07:46] <mac_v> Amaranth: oh , thanks , i thought i was dreaming it up ;)
[07:48] <mvo> Amaranth: ok
[07:50] <mvo> Amaranth: fixed in bzr
[07:50] <mvo> Amaranth: anything else you noticed? any strange bugreport or anything?
[07:50] <Amaranth> mvo: nope, seems to be good so far
[07:51] <mvo> cool
[07:51] <Amaranth> I want to do some work on move and resize since robert_ancell is busy with empathy but that'll take a bit more time
[07:51] <mvo> speaking of resize: I seem to be unable to get a resize handle in my emacs22 window
[07:51] <mvo> but only for right and bottom
[07:53] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, I'll send you the part patches if you want
[07:53] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: that'd be great, send them to amaranth@ubuntu.com
[07:54] <mvo> what are they about?
[07:55] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, sent
[07:55] <robert_ancell> mvo, the resize doesn't take panels into account at all so you can resize the top of the window under the panel
[07:55] <Amaranth> mvo: fixing constrain_y to work like metacity and fixing resize to work the same way (don't resize under panels)
[07:55] <mvo> nice
[08:09]  * Amaranth goes to curl up with a box of tissues
[08:09] <Amaranth> dang cold
[08:09] <Amaranth> see you guys in a few
[08:11] <mvo> get well!
[08:34] <pitti> Good morning
[08:37] <seb128> hey pitti
[08:37] <seb128> pitti, I started looking at the glib gettext issue yesterday
[08:38] <seb128> pitti, just so you don't duplicate work
[08:38] <mvo> asac: I had a quick look at the auto-install thing we talked about yesterday and it seems jaunty behaves the same
[08:38] <mvo> :/
[08:38] <seb128> hey mvo
[08:39] <pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
[08:39] <mvo> hey seb128
[08:39] <seb128> pitti, it seems that's just the current gettext patch which is buggy
[08:39] <seb128> pitti, gdesktopapp uses g_key
[08:47] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone!
[08:48] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[08:48] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti
[08:50] <seb128> hello chrisccoulson
[08:51] <seb128> I will sponsor gnome-session and totem after getting coffee
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> thanks:)
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> i just went to get some coffee too!
[09:04] <asac> mvo: too baq
[09:04] <asac> bad
[09:05] <seb128> hey asac
[09:05] <asac> hi
[09:06] <seb128> asac, any chance that you fix this libnm-glib pc naming compat thing today?
[09:06] <Ng> asac: re bug #411894 it doesn't get confused atm because the on/off menu options don't appear, and bluetooth-properties won't start ;)
[09:12] <Ng> "sudo rfkill {un,}block bluetooth" seems to work perfectly though
[09:18] <seb128> wb asac
[09:20] <asac> hi seb128
[09:20] <asac> ;)
[09:20] <seb128> asac, did you get my question before?
[09:20] <asac> i committed your workaround
[09:20] <asac> bug 429523
[09:20] <asac> err
[09:20] <asac> ;)
[09:20] <asac> not that one
[09:20] <slomo> seb128: could you sync pitivi from unstable? :)
[09:20] <seb128> asac, any chance you upload today?
[09:20] <asac> yes
[09:21] <seb128> slomo, will do now
[09:21] <asac> i will upload right after coffee is finished ;)
[09:21] <seb128> asac, thanks
[09:21] <slomo> seb128: thanks :)
[09:21] <asac> wanted to take a quick look if there is any other gression or something i should fix for alpha-6 ... now that i am at it
[09:21] <asac> seb128: empathy failed?
[09:21] <seb128> slomo, I did sync the gst* yesterday but not gst-ffmpeg ... is that worth having too?
[09:21] <asac> i can reupload that for you
[09:21] <asac> or at least test ;)
[09:21] <slomo> seb128: yes, fixes some annoying bugs :)
[09:21] <seb128> asac, yes, and the upload has a change we want for alpha if possible
[09:21] <slomo> seb128: s/some/many/
[09:22] <seb128> slomo, ok good, doing that too then
[09:22] <asac> seb128: but you didnt upload the new one yet?
[09:22] <slomo> seb128: also gnonlin if you didn't update that yet ;)
[09:22] <seb128> asac, I did that's the one which failed to build
[09:22] <seb128> slomo, I was just looking at the versions for this one ;-)
[09:23] <asac> kk
[09:31] <slomo> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamer0.10/+bug/428987  <--- this one has a upstream bug somewhere but i can't find it right now ;) it's a problem with playbin2 iirc
[09:31] <seb128> slomo, ok thanks
[09:36] <asac> urgh ... make crashed ;) memory decay i assume. not nice
[09:42] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm wondering if you didn't confuse the iplayer and bbc plugins
[09:42] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the bbc one is the ubuntu specific one made by collabora and didn't change since jaunty and is working out of the box no?
[09:42]  * seb128 is checking
[09:49] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, you might be right there
[09:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm fixing that now
[09:49] <seb128> bug #384767
[09:50] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> yeah, thats the one
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> so, i did get a bit confused then ;)
[09:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I've changed to move iplayer, trying build now
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks, sorry about that!
[09:58] <seb128> no problem, no reason you would be the only one there never doing a small error
[09:58] <seb128> ;-)
[09:59] <seb128> you would make us look like monkeys otherwise ;-)
[10:01] <chrisccoulson> heh;)
[10:02] <seb128> wb chrisccoulson
[10:03] <chrisccoulson> my 3G connection is a bit unreliable today!
[10:03] <chrisccoulson> keeps disconnecting me
[10:04] <seb128> slomo, we got some bugs from users where libgstlibvisual.so screws things, any hint on how to debug?
[10:04] <seb128> slomo, ie bug #429732
[10:04] <seb128> slomo, or bug #429231
[10:06] <seb128> pitti, there for a quick question about the glib gettext change?
[10:08] <seb128> pitti, you use "+  msg_locale = setlocale (LC_MESSAGES, NULL);"
[10:08] <seb128> pitti, did you mean +  msg_locale = setlocale (LC_MESSAGES, "");?
[10:09] <pitti> seb128: I probably did mean that, yes
[10:09] <pitti> seb128: did I write that/
[10:09] <pitti> ?
[10:09] <seb128> pitti, ok good, because that fixes the bug
[10:09] <pitti> anyway, NULL is wrong, indeed
[10:09] <pitti> cool!
[10:09] <seb128> pitti, well either you adapted vuntz's version or wrote it
[10:09] <pitti> seb128: I wonder how it could ever have worked with that
[10:09] <seb128> pitti, "" fixes the bug
[10:10]  * pitti hugs seb128
[10:10] <seb128> pitti, it never did I think but we use gnome-menus for almost everything
[10:10] <seb128> pitti, ie we didn't notice g_key not working
[10:10]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[10:10] <seb128> vuntz, ^
[10:10] <seb128> vuntz, you might be interested if your change has the same issue
[10:11] <pitti> ah
[10:13] <pitti> asac: just gotta love your n-m version numbers :)
[10:14] <pitti> I wonder if it's some s3kr1t exploit code hex dump
[10:14] <asac> hey. they are great
[10:14] <asac> at least for good/robust git/daily integration
[10:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you try the youtube plugin?
[10:17] <seb128> I get
[10:18] <seb128> "gstsouphttpsrc.c(1096): gst_soup_http_src_parse_status (): /GstPlayBin2:play/GstURIDecodeBin:uridecodebin0/GstSoupHTTPSrc:source:
[10:18] <seb128> 404 Not Found"
[10:18] <seb128> for all the videos I tried
[10:19] <seb128> ah, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594320
[10:19] <mvo> asac: I will so use the same schema for the compiz snapshots!
[10:19] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i did briefly try it, and didn't get any videos to play, but i didn't debug it yet.i've never had it work properly for me, so i wasn't sure if it was something wrong with my setup
[10:19] <chrisccoulson> ah, it's already reported
[10:19] <lool> seb128: Hey!  Did you see empathy was FTBFSing?  It seems libnm-glib isn't pulled in the chroot anymore and a build-dep was missing
[10:20] <asac> mvo: we have those great snippets
[10:20] <asac> ;)
[10:20] <lool> log http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31790611/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.empathy_2.27.92-1ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[10:20] <asac> will put them into mt-git.mk or something
[10:20] <seb128> lool, hey, see discussions with asac yesterday evening and this morning
[10:20] <mvo> cool
[10:20] <lool> seb128: Ok, sorry
[10:20] <seb128> lool, they basically renamed the .pc and will add a compatibility one today
[10:20] <seb128> I will retry empathy then
[10:20] <lool> asac, seb128: So this is under control; thanks
[10:21] <lool> seb128: Ok thanks a lot
[10:21] <seb128> you're welcome
[10:21] <asac> lool: fix already landed in ubuntu. (will talk about upstream fix later today) i think retrying empathy is good
[10:21] <asac> are there more bugs?
[10:21] <asac> e.g more packages failing?
[10:21] <lool> asac: Which source package was that in?
[10:21] <asac> network-manager
[10:22] <lool> network-manager 0.8~a~git.20090911t130220.4c77fa0-0ubuntu2
[10:22] <asac> libnm-glib-dev .pc file rename
[10:22] <asac> yes
[10:23] <lool> asac: Ok thanks; it's still building on armel
[10:34] <seb128> asac, retying ... you are being optimistic there, the build and publish game usually takes at least 2 hours
[10:37] <asac> seb128: yes.
[12:55] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - are you going to do the transmission update?
[12:55] <chrisccoulson> i just had a user e-mail me and ask me when 1.75 will be in karmic for some reason :-/
[12:56] <chrisccoulson> they obviously assume that i don't have a lite:)
[12:56] <chrisccoulson> s/lite/life
[12:57] <kklimonda> interesting, I just got an email when am I going to prepare 1.75 for jaunty ppa..
[12:57] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: what about UI freeze/
[12:58] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - there's no UI changes are there?
[12:58] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: do we have to remove both dialog window that asks users to kill dangling process and donate button?
[12:58] <kklimonda> oh, so it's not a problem?
[12:59] <kklimonda> I remember reading that all changes in user interface after 10th of september have to be both consulted with release team and translators
[12:59] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - i'm not sure about that dialog. i don't think it would be an issue, but i don't think the dialog should be there anyway ;)
[12:59] <kklimonda> but maybe I'm wrong
[12:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, btw speaking about your workload how is your ubuntu todolist? ;-)
[12:59] <mac_v> is there a recent known bug , where the /home does not unmount on shutdown?
[13:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - my work load is not too bad at the moment. have you got some extra work for me to do then? ;)
[13:00] <kklimonda> well, neither do I, charles isn't really happy with making it either but it's better than nothing for now until we get some people to actually reproduce it and get backtrace (I couldn't do it myself)
[13:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, gnome-disk-utility notification about disk issues uses actions do you think you could look at fixing that before karmic?
[13:00] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - yeah, the bug definately should be fixed really
[13:01] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it's weird to have an "ok" button for that
[13:01] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i could possibly look at that. i get the popup at the moment, so it's quite annoying ;)
[13:01] <seb128> I get it too on my desktop, thanks!
[13:01] <seb128> if you look at it let me know
[13:01] <seb128> otherwise I might have a look but that will be after beta probably though
[13:03] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i was trying to think about it a bit last night. i think it would be nice to "opt-out" of having a notification on every log in (with a checkbutton on the warning or something similar), and only get notified again if the smart status degrades any further. something like that should be possible, seeing as the smart history is stored in a database
[13:03] <chrisccoulson> i don't know what other peoples opinions are though
[13:04] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: according to this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze we need an ACK from release team. I'll prepare update today and poke people ;)
[13:04] <seb128> I for one know that my disk has issue and I've decided to keep using it for a bit so +1 for a way to opt that out
[13:05] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - yeah, i was just about to mention that - it adds new strings doesn't it?
[13:05] <seb128> it's not brining any value once you know about the issue
[13:05] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: yes, that's why I've mentioned it.
[13:06] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i agree. and i think it's debatable that i should see the warning for my disk anyway. it's got some reallocated sectors, but it shouldn't really cause an issue until the disk runs out of space to re-allocate them. it's not yet at the stage where the manufacturer would consider it to be failing anyway
[14:12] <pitti> asac: hm, the "invalid SSL" page now seems broken in firefox, I just get a "nondefined XML entity" yellow page
[14:13] <asac> pitti: yes. translation bug
[14:13] <asac> well po2xpi bug.
[14:13] <asac> would be interesting to check whether its also in firefox-3.0
[14:14] <asac> one second we have a bug
[14:14] <pitti> ok, that's fine, if it's known
[14:14] <pitti> I just stumbled over it
[14:15] <asac> bug 429835
[14:15] <asac> we just found it out today
[14:37] <rickspencer3> tseliot, good morning
[14:37] <rickspencer3> tseliot, thanks for getting on the intel patch!
[14:37] <tseliot> rickspencer3: good morning to you
[14:37] <tseliot> rickspencer3: no problem, it's part of my job now ;)
[14:41] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[14:41] <rickspencer3> good morning seb128
[14:42] <rickspencer3> seb128, my French class was canceled last night, not enough students
[14:42] <rickspencer3> so I will take the Saturday class
[14:42] <rickspencer3> how do I  say "oh well" in French?
[14:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, oh, that's a shame :-(
[14:43] <seb128> rickspencer3, "tant pis"
[14:44] <rickspencer3> tant pis
[14:45] <seb128> ;-)
[14:49] <seb128> Amaranth, could you comment on bug #429969 since you know the status of the bug?
[15:31] <pitti> oh, just noticed that ^ in the guest session
[15:32] <pitti> it comes back when clicking on it, though
[15:32] <mvo> seb128: its fix commited
[15:32] <mvo> seb128: but there is currently some discussion with upstream
[15:32] <seb128> mvo, can you update the bug, thanks
[15:34] <mvo> seb128: I will just upload the fix instead ;)
[15:34] <seb128> mvo, danke
[15:36] <bittin> is the meeting 16:30 swedish time?
[15:36] <pitti> bittin: desktop team meeting is 1630 UTC
[15:36] <pitti> i. e. 1830 CEST
[15:36] <bittin> ah ok
[15:37] <seb128> pitti, how do you cherrypick a bzr commit for packages maintained in bzr like the dxteam ones?
[15:37] <bittin> thx for the info =)
[15:38] <seb128> pitti, is there a bzr command for that or just diff and use patch to apply?
[15:38] <pitti> seb128: the best is usually to merge everything up to a particular revision (bzr merge -r 1234 ../trunk)
[15:38] <james_w> bzr merge -c <revno> <branch>
[15:38] <pitti> seb128: for cherrypicking just one particular, non-contiguous, revision, use bzr merge -c 1234 ../trunk
[15:38] <james_w> or as pitti said if you just don't want later stuff
[15:38] <seb128> james_w, pitti: thanks
[15:39] <pitti> seb128: -r is cleaner, since it records the fact that you merged those revs already; -c can't do that (it's more or less like diff | patch
[15:39] <seb128> well I don't want a bzr snapshot
[15:39] <seb128> I want to backport a change
[15:40] <mac_v> Amaranth: hi... are you still having problems with the logout plugin? i have the latest compiz updates too , but i dont see any problems
[15:41] <mac_v> oh... ops wrong timezone :(
[15:51] <bittin> timezones sucks :(
[16:21] <rugby471> mvo: hello
[16:26] <seb128> re
[16:26]  * seb128 looks at asac
[16:26] <seb128> asac, I can't connect to wireless since the nm update
[16:27] <mvo> hey rugby471 - check trunk/ - all your stuff is merged (+ more :)
[16:27] <rugby471> mvo: just about to :-)
[16:27] <asac> seb128: thats odd
[16:28] <asac> seb128: a) did you restart?
[16:28] <seb128> asac, but true
[16:28] <seb128> yes
[16:28] <seb128> I just did
[16:28] <seb128> and I did hit a fsck on blank screen again which is confusing
[16:28] <asac> was that fixed?
[16:28] <seb128> no
[16:28] <seb128> I'm on wire right now
[16:28] <ArneGoetje> seb128: do you know if gdm still uses locale settings from ~/.dmrc ?
[16:28] <asac> whats the status on that?
[16:28] <asac> seb128: i mean the fsck bug
[16:29] <seb128> dunno
[16:29] <seb128> I got a fsck without any clue on display right now
[16:29] <asac> seb128: well. so last update came from Keybuk without direct notification ;)
[16:29] <seb128> but it passed through after some minutes
[16:29] <seb128> that's just confusing
[16:29] <seb128> ArneGoetje, it should
[16:29] <ArneGoetje> seb128: ok, thanks
[16:29] <seb128> asac, so about my nm issue?
[16:30] <asac> seb128: which version do you have?
[16:30] <seb128> asac, ii  network-manager                            0.8~a~git.20090911t130220.4c77fa0-0ubuntu2       network management framework daemon
[16:31] <rugby471> mvo: about the ShowImage Dialog
[16:31] <rugby471> mvo: I was working ons something similar :-)
[16:31] <asac> seb128: and network-manager-gnome is also latest?
[16:31] <rugby471> mvo: with eog
[16:31] <rugby471> :-)
[16:31] <seb128> asac, sorry weekly call with rickspencer3 I brb
[16:31] <asac> k
[16:31] <rugby471> I shall have a look your your implementation, it is probably better :-)
[16:31] <mvo> rugby471: yeah, I merged that - but gnome-open on this is IMO too heavy :)
[16:31] <mvo> rugby471: its based on your code
[16:31] <rugby471> oh?
[16:32] <rugby471> I didn't realise I pushed that :-)
[16:32] <rugby471> hehe no problem :-)
[16:32] <mvo> :)
[16:32] <rugby471> mvo: when does the dialog show itself?
[16:32] <mvo> rugby471: on click, just as in your implementation (including the zoom cursor)
[16:33] <rugby471> ah
[16:33] <rugby471> I shall have a look
[16:34] <rugby471> mvo: haha I am just looking at rev 251 - simplify the copy/cut/paste
[16:34] <mvo> (phone)
[16:34] <rugby471> mvo: I had no idea you could do it that easy :-)
[16:34] <Keybuk> asac: ?
[16:38] <pitti> seb128: I regularly get n-m crashes on upgrade nowadays, perhaps it's just that for you?
[16:38] <asac> Keybuk: all fine. just didnt notice that you did a NM upload. in the past we dont "stop" on shutdown. is it ok to just remove the stop on ( ... ) from the .upstart file to achieve the same?
[16:39] <seb128> re
[16:39] <seb128> right, it seems to crahs as soon as I connect
[16:39] <asac> hmm
[16:40] <Keybuk> asac: Upstart shutdown is a little different
[16:40] <Keybuk> (or will be)
[16:40] <Keybuk> it's acceptable to "stop on runlevel [06]"
[16:40] <seb128> asac,
[16:40] <seb128> (gdb) bt
[16:40] <seb128> #0  0x00cb72a1 in IA__g_object_unref (_object=0x9cd8760)
[16:40] <seb128>     at /build/buildd/glib2.0-2.21.6/gobject/gobject.c:2370
[16:40] <seb128> #1  0x080ae53a in ?? ()
[16:40] <seb128> #2  0x00cb73e3 in IA__g_object_unref (_object=0x9ce2018)
[16:40] <seb128> not very useful
[16:40] <Keybuk> that's directly equivalent to being killed by sendsigs
[16:40] <asac> yeah
[16:40] <asac> thats what i want
[16:40] <seb128> and dbgsym don't seem to be there
[16:40] <Keybuk> asac: I did add an NM task a few days before the upload, so you'd notice I was doing it
[16:40] <asac> at least until NM doesnt tear down stuff on shutdown
[16:41] <Keybuk> asac: right, so the upstart job is right, it just doesn't match what you'd expect from the init script
[16:41] <Keybuk> asac: but that's what you'd expect, because upstart jobs are declarative ;)
[16:41] <Keybuk> "stop on" => when to send the TERM/KILL signal
[16:42] <rugby471> mvo: damn it screenshots.debian.net is down :-(
[16:42] <rugby471> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://screenshots.debian.net
[16:43] <asac> Keybuk: ok so we can use "stop on runlevel [06]" ? or are you saying the "stop on (stopping dbus or stopping hal)" already does that?
[16:44] <Keybuk> asac: it already does that
[16:44] <Keybuk> basically if dbus gets stopped, you want NM to get stopped first
[16:44] <Keybuk> otherwise NM is going to exit() inside libdbus anyway
[16:44] <Keybuk> and Upstart will then try and respawn it
[16:45] <asac> ok. but hal is kind of wrong
[16:45] <asac> a) NM doesnt use hal ... and even before it continued to work well even if hal was down
[16:45] <Keybuk> HAL is a bit more interesting I guess - it'd be worth finding out whether NM copes with HAL not being around when it starts
[16:45] <Keybuk> and whether NM copes with HAL going away
[16:45] <Keybuk> ahh
[16:45] <asac> yes. it works well without hal
[16:45] <Keybuk> then that's a bug ;)
[16:45] <asac> i mean in the past
[16:45] <Keybuk> should be just dbus
[16:45] <Keybuk> want me to fix that, or will you?
[16:45] <seb128> asac, do you have some time to help me to fix my laptop wireless or should I just downgrade nm for now?
[16:45] <asac> no i will do
[16:46] <asac> seb128: from which package version did you upgrade? from ubuntu1?
[16:46] <asac> there is zero change in that update ... so if you came from that its probably something else
[16:46] <Keybuk> asac: probably should be
[16:46] <Keybuk> start on (filesystem
[16:46] <Keybuk>           and started dbus)
[16:46] <Keybuk> stop on stopping dbus
[16:46] <Keybuk> ?
[16:46] <asac> yes. sounds reasonable Keybuk
[16:46] <asac> thanks
[16:46] <seb128> asac,
[16:46] <seb128> 2009-09-15 17:04:27 upgrade network-manager 0.8~a~git.20090820t182117.cb60390-0ubuntu3~boot6 0.8~a~git.20090911t130220.4c77fa0-0ubuntu2
[16:47] <asac> will do that when pulling your debdiff to the branch
[16:47] <asac> seb128: boot6?
[16:47] <Keybuk> asac: I commited my changes to the branch
[16:47] <seb128> asac, ubuntu-boot version
[16:47] <asac> Keybuk: to the core-dev branch?
[16:47] <asac> hmm
[16:47] <Keybuk> asac: to the branch mentioned in debian/control
[16:47] <Keybuk> oh, maybe I didn't because I didn't have PERMISSION :)
[16:47] <asac> Keybuk: yeah. think i failed to update it. will figure.
[16:48] <Keybuk> want me to push now?
[16:48] <Keybuk> if so, to what URL?
[16:48] <asac> Keybuk: just anywhere i can merge it in instantly.
[16:48] <asac> or i can add you to nm team if you want ;)
[16:49] <Keybuk> lp:~scott/network-manager/0ubuntu3
[16:49] <asac> thx
[16:49] <Keybuk> np
[16:49]  * Keybuk always tries to spot bzr branches and use them
[16:50] <Keybuk> ok, so the hal thing would explain why NM gets bounced on upgrade
[16:51] <Keybuk> because HAL is always restarted
[16:51] <Keybuk> still need to understand why X crashes sometimes ;)
[16:52] <dobey> Keybuk: did you change the network-manager script to UpStart?
[16:52] <Keybuk> dobey: no, I changed it to Upstart ;)
[16:52] <seb128> asac, re, sorry I was playing with it
[16:53] <dobey> Keybuk: ok, well maybe you already fixed the issue, but there appeared to be an extraneous floating 's' character at the end of the file
[16:53] <dobey> of /etc/init.d/network-manager that is
[16:53] <Keybuk> bet there isn;t
[16:53] <mvo> rugby471: copy-n-paste> well, its just a shortcut, your code was fine too :)
[16:54] <seb128> asac, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/log
[16:54] <seb128> asac, that's the log I get when selecting my wireless
[16:54] <rugby471> mvo: but isn't it built in :-)
[16:54] <mvo> rugby471: weh, if screenshots.d.n is down, thats bad - I need we need at least a proxy :/
[16:54] <dobey> Keybuk: well there isn't now on this machine, because i edited the file and deleted that line...
[16:54] <Keybuk> dobey: there's an "s" at the end of /lib/init/upstart-job - which is what /etc/init.d/network-manager is a symlink to ? :-)
[16:54] <asac> seb128: hmm. dhclient seems to not succeed
[16:55] <seb128> asac, wait, I'm not sure the copy worked right
[16:55] <dobey> Keybuk: ok well i didn't see it was a symlink. the error talked about /etc/init.d/network-manager :)
[16:55] <dobey> since i was trying to start network-manager so i could use the internets again
[16:56] <Keybuk> dobey: but yes, that's long-since-fixed - you just need to update upstart
[16:56] <dobey> ok
[16:56] <dobey> long since? measurement of minutes? :)
[16:56] <seb128> asac, refresh
[16:57] <dobey> it was there ~2.5 hours ago when i last did an update :P
[16:58] <asac> seb128: hmm. what do you have in your IP6 tab if you go to your auto linksys in connection editor?
[16:58] <asac> just Ignore?
[16:58] <seb128> asac, automatic
[16:59] <seb128> and everything else in the tab is inactive
[16:59] <asac> seb128: set it to "ignore"
[17:00] <seb128> asac, do I need to restart something?
[17:00] <asac> seb128: i would think no. if nothing changes: better safe than sorry ;)
[17:00] <asac> i would just try after setting that to ignore and closing editor etc.
[17:01] <seb128> still the same issue and same "(IP6 Configure Timeout) complete" in the log
[17:01] <seb128> oh, worked now apparently
[17:02] <seb128> asac, ok that works now thanks
[17:02] <seb128> asac, weird, I don't think I ever set automatic in that tab
[17:02] <asac> seb128: did you ever touch a connection?
[17:02] <seb128> I did touch the "auto connect"
[17:03] <seb128> but that's it
[17:03] <seb128> I never touched the ipv6 config
[17:03] <asac> sure.
[17:03] <asac> seb128: want to file a bug: "nm-applet auto wireless connection IP6 method was automatically set to "Automatic" rather than Ignore"?
[17:04] <asac> and post what you remember about when you modified your connection
[17:04] <asac> i assume you modified it in jaunty last time=
[17:04] <asac> ?
[17:04] <seb128> yes or intrepid
[17:04] <seb128> probably jaunty
[17:05] <seb128> asac, I will not bother opening a bug, all my other onnections are on ignore, maybe I did touch it without noticing way back
[17:05] <asac> hmm
[17:05] <asac> ok
[17:05] <seb128> I don't think a bug will be useful about the setting change
[17:05] <seb128> what is the real bug is that setting to automatic breaks
[17:05] <asac> i think its ok. if i see a duplicate i will remember that you already had that issue
[17:05] <seb128> where it working before the update
[17:05] <seb128> +was
[17:05] <asac> seb128: IPv6 support was not really there before
[17:06] <asac> i think a bug would be helpful as there might be buggy corner cases
[17:06] <asac> we want to fix
[17:06] <asac> but i can file that on my own
[17:06] <seb128> asac, I will open one if you think that's useful
[17:06] <asac> will first talk with other NM folks if they think it might be a consequence of some setting migration
[17:06] <seb128> asac, I just avoid to flood the bug tracker about one time config changes from users nobody will ever look at ;-)
[17:07] <asac> seb128: yeah. just the title from above + your vague memory when you edited that connection i what way
[17:07] <mvo> rugby471: do you have anything pending? otherwise I'm going to upload now :)
[17:07] <seb128> asac, ok, will do
[17:07] <asac> seb128: sure. but wireless stopping to work is bad breakage
[17:07] <mvo> rugby471: we have a impressive changelog again :)
[17:07] <asac> better safe than sorry ;)
[17:07] <rugby471> mvo: I am just making the gif spinner with the blue background colour, should be done in a minute
[17:07] <asac> besides from this i havent heard of much wireless regressions ... so i am really eager to not let any chance of this slip through
[17:08] <rugby471> mvo: hehe
[17:08] <mvo> rugby471: sweet, many thnaks
[17:11] <mvo> rugby471: do you have any idea how a effect like in bug #428414 can be prevented ? that the text flows so strange around the image?
[17:12] <mvo> rugby471: I know the problem itself, that is fixable, but I'm not sure how to fix the html
[17:12] <rugby471> mvo: not really, I havent looked at it
[17:12]  * mvo really needs a html book :)
[17:14]  * pitti points mvo to the awesome http://selfhtml.org/
[17:15] <mvo> pitti: thanks, I shall have a look (after dinner :)
[17:16] <seb128> re
[17:19] <rugby471> mvo: 10 more minutes :-)
[17:19] <mvo> rugby471: sure, I will just check in after dinner :)
[17:19] <mvo> rugby471: so take your time :)
[17:29] <rickspencer3> desktop team meeting in 1 min!
[17:29] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-09-15
[17:29]  * kenvandine is here
[17:30] <pitti> o/
[17:30] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, asac ccheney kenvandine pitti Riddell seb128 tseliot
[17:30] <rickspencer3> hi all
[17:30] <seb128> rickspencer3, hello
[17:30] <ArneGoetje> Hi
[17:30] <tseliot> hi all
[17:30] <ccheney> hi
[17:30] <rickspencer3> shall we begin?
[17:30]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[17:30] <rickspencer3> start with outstanding actions from last week
[17:31] <rickspencer3> these are on the wiki, but wanted to mention a couple
[17:31] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to disuss piddin/empathy with seb128 and pitti and make call for Karmic
[17:31] <pitti> done, I think
[17:31] <rickspencer3> after much deliberation, we are not changing the Plan of Record
[17:31] <seb128> did we discuss after meeting again?
[17:31] <rickspencer3> # Empathy will be installed in new installs, pidgin won't be
[17:31] <rickspencer3> # Empathy will be installed on upgrade installs, pidgin won't be removed
[17:31] <rickspencer3> # Empathy will offer to import pidgin settings on first run
[17:31] <asac> hi
[17:31] <seb128> +1
[17:32] <rickspencer3> pitti, seb128 - yes, I'm just publically announcing the deciscion, and marking the end of discussion on the matter
[17:32] <rickspencer3> (until the next UDS ;) )
[17:32] <kenvandine> :)
[17:32] <rickspencer3> also ..
[17:32] <rickspencer3> ACTION: pitti to try to repro x freeze and log bug
[17:32] <pitti> A day of firm decisions!
[17:32] <pitti> or is it?
[17:32] <rickspencer3> pitti, shall we open it for discussion again?
[17:32] <pitti> rickspencer3: done, freedesktop bug 23923
[17:32] <rickspencer3> j/k
[17:32] <rickspencer3> sweet
[17:32] <rickspencer3> tseliot, did you see ^
[17:33] <rickspencer3> is it in the intel blocker list?
[17:33] <pitti> upstream assigned it to someone, but no response yet
[17:33] <tseliot> rickspencer3: I'm about to upload a fix for mesa about it
[17:33] <pitti> tseliot: ooh!
[17:33] <pitti> so it's that one?
[17:33] <tseliot> well, it should fix that and some other bugs
[17:33] <pitti> I do get the occasional screen corruption as well
[17:33] <tseliot> a kernel patch should be required too though
[17:33] <pitti> but ctrl-l usually fixes it
[17:33] <tseliot> pitti: it seems to fix that problem too
[17:33] <rickspencer3> with x we are always one patch away from perfection ;)
[17:34] <rickspencer3> see
[17:34] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:34] <tseliot> hehe
[17:34] <pitti> so, I'll try andy's test kernel
[17:34] <rickspencer3> tseliot, thank you for rocking the X stack
[17:34] <pitti> and close the upstream bug if it fixes it
[17:34] <rickspencer3> tseliot, what should folks do if they want to test the fix?
[17:34] <tseliot> apw: was great too
[17:34] <rickspencer3> yes, apw is made of awesome :)
[17:35] <pitti> bug 429241 has a link to test kernels
[17:35] <tseliot> rickspencer3: if the chroot of my PPA wasn't broken you could try it: https://launchpad.net/~albertomilone/+archive/x-testing
[17:35] <bittin> hi
[17:35] <rickspencer3> tseliot, we need apw's kernel, and a new mesa, right?
[17:35] <tseliot> and the kernel can be found here: http://people.canonical.com/~apw/lp429241-karmic/ (thank apw about this)
[17:36] <tseliot> mesa is being uploaded by superm1 as we speak (slangasek agreed)
[17:37] <rickspencer3> thanks tseliot
[17:37] <rickspencer3> moving on ...
[17:37] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, partner update?
[17:37] <kenvandine> sure
[17:37] <kenvandine> DX team is getting into a groove of weekly releases
[17:37] <kenvandine> every thursday
[17:37] <kenvandine> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicWeeklyReleases
[17:37] <kenvandine> for a list of plans
[17:38] <kenvandine> projects with no code changes (and none planned) won't have releases
[17:38] <bittin> nice =)
[17:38] <kenvandine> and u1 is about to unleash the cool pairing stuff for desktopcouch
[17:38] <pitti> Thursday doesn't align well with our freezes, though (just FTR)
[17:38] <kenvandine> couchdb was uploaded this morning with some oauth fixes
[17:38] <kenvandine> pitti, ok... noted
[17:39] <pitti> kenvandine: not a biggie, just saying
[17:39] <asac> monday or friday sounds better
[17:39] <kenvandine> so with the oauth features, we can enable that stuff in the related packages
[17:39] <asac> though i see why those days were not picked
[17:39] <kenvandine> desktopcouch, couchdb-glib (done) and bindwood
[17:39] <seb128> not friday, not "break everything and run away for some days" uploads ;-)
[17:39] <kenvandine> so hopefully this week we will be able to play with the cool stuff
[17:39] <kenvandine> seb128, exactly :)
[17:39] <kenvandine> but mondays and tuesdays are rough :)
[17:40] <kenvandine> maybe wed...
[17:40] <kenvandine> anyway
[17:40]  * kenvandine is done
[17:40] <pitti> kenvandine: should be fine; they release Thu, you package it, we sponsor/upload on Fri
[17:40] <rickspencer3> lets take the "release day" discussion to UDS
[17:40] <seb128> right
[17:40] <rickspencer3> but for now, this is a huge success that there is a drum beat for their releases
[17:41] <rickspencer3> thanks for making that work kenvandine, and seb128 too!
[17:41] <kenvandine> :)
[17:41] <seb128> you're welcome ;-)
[17:41] <pitti> kenvandine: did you hear about an update about how to disable the system couchdb instance/init script?
[17:41] <pitti> kenvandine: nevermind, let's discuss after meeting
[17:41] <kenvandine> pitti, i know statik is working on it... i will follow up
[17:42] <rickspencer3> we should discuss in the "bugs" section
[17:42] <rickspencer3> moving on then, Riddell?
[17:42] <rickspencer3> Kubuntu update
[17:42] <Riddell> hi
[17:42] <Riddell>  - KubuntuKarmicXsplash implemented
[17:42] <Riddell>  - mostly set for alpha 6 but need to upload new python-qt4 to fix bug 428200
[17:42] <Riddell>  - jockey-kde doesn't seem to work until jockey-gtk is installed, need to investigate more
[17:43] <Riddell>  - kmail has been patched for a mail deletion bug, going through testing
[17:43] <Riddell>  - netbook taking shape quite nicely but won't have everything we want due to upstream change of plans and will have to be considered a tech preview for marketing
[17:43] <Riddell> that's me
[17:43] <rickspencer3> thanks Riddell
[17:44]  * rickspencer3 waits for agenda to reload in browser
[17:44] <rickspencer3> next is release status
[17:44] <rickspencer3> two parts, bugs and work items
[17:44] <rickspencer3> shall we discuss release targeted bugs first?
[17:45] <pitti> sure
[17:45]  * kenvandine thinks so
[17:45]  * bittin thinks so to
[17:45] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus has some of them, too
[17:45] <rickspencer3> k, I have a list of release targeted bugs assigned to our team on the wiki
[17:45] <pitti> that has a summary of the ones on the release team radar
[17:46] <pitti> please speak up if one of it is imprecise/outdated
[17:46] <rickspencer3> pitti's list is better, actually, because of what he just said ;)
[17:46] <pitti> rickspencer3: you have more, let's go through the missing one
[17:46]  * seb128 has quite a list of desktop bugs on his list too
[17:46] <pitti> s
[17:46] <rickspencer3> I believe that ccheney is holding back on the OOo bug
[17:46] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'll add the ones from your list to ReleaseStatus
[17:46]  * kenvandine is glad to see 388898 as really fixed :)
[17:46] <seb128> not sure if we should aim at having a list of all bugs we want to get fixed for karmic
[17:46] <rickspencer3> because it would have kept ARM from building at all
[17:46] <pitti> rickspencer3: I fixed 425793 two hours ago
[17:47] <rickspencer3> sweet
[17:47] <pitti> 223212> linux-firmware-nonfree is in the archive now, jockey stuff on my list (no blockers expected)
[17:47] <rickspencer3> seb128, are you saying that you don't think we should, or you think we should?
[17:47] <seb128> rickspencer3, I'm not sure how much you want to be flooded with individual todos
[17:47] <ccheney> i plan on doing an upload ~ sunday/monday that should have that fix along with kubuntu fixes
[17:47] <seb128> I mean I've quite a list of GNOME bugs to look at for karmic
[17:48] <pitti> seb128: well, I'm using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus for tracking blockers, etc., and use it for coordination
[17:48] <seb128> I'm sure asac have a list for nm and firefox too, etc
[17:48] <rickspencer3> seb128, right
[17:48] <seb128> pitti, well my list would be at least 30 bugs
[17:48] <rickspencer3> I think there is a list of bugs that the release team is driving us to fix
[17:48] <seb128> ie what I aim to fix in the next month
[17:48] <asac> nm bugs are fixed while we get them in. nothing really blocking
[17:48] <rickspencer3> and everyone has a list of bugs that they will apply best effort on
[17:48] <asac> firefox has a few hard ones. but nothing really critical
[17:48] <pitti> right, that should be the "have to fix" list, not the "want to fix"
[17:49] <seb128> well, "indicator-session is not translated"
[17:49] <pitti> but indeed I don't think we can discuss the bug list a lot here
[17:49] <seb128> or compiz set transparency on panels
[17:49] <seb128> those sort of bugs
[17:49] <pitti> except if someone says he can't work on something and we need to reassign
[17:49] <rickspencer3> so, what I understood of the Ubuntu process, was that the "have to fix" list was determined by a combination of being targeted, and having a high or critical importance
[17:49] <bittin> do something needs to be translated to Swedish?
[17:49] <seb128> do you want to track those?
[17:50] <pitti> seb128: I want to, and do, but I don't think we need to talk about all of them in the meeting
[17:50] <rickspencer3> seb128, I track all of our bugs
[17:50] <rickspencer3> but for this meeting, want to focus on the "have to do" list
[17:50] <seb128> ok
[17:50] <rickspencer3> seb128, are there bugs that you are worried about that we should discuss after the meeting?
[17:51] <seb128> no, that was rather a general wondering
[17:51] <rickspencer3> hopefully this pause isn't seb128 waiting for Launchpad to load up a huge list
[17:51] <seb128> not really a meeting topic
[17:51] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:51] <seb128> let's discuss that off topic later
[17:52] <rickspencer3> ok, so did everyone look at pitti's list, and the list of targeted bugs on the wiki?
[17:52] <kenvandine> yup
[17:52] <seb128> I've my GNOME list on track and I'm fine with it, I'm just not sure how much that should be shared
[17:52] <seb128> yes
[17:52] <rickspencer3> are there any red flags, in terms of work that can't/won't get done without some intervention
[17:52] <rickspencer3> otherwise, I will assume that a bug assigned to you is on track to be fixed on time
[17:52] <seb128> I'm not sure what to do with the empathy sounds issue
[17:52] <pitti> bug 135548 is a bitch
[17:52] <asac> pitti: that one is fix released?
[17:53] <pitti> and bug 401823 seems very fluffy, keeps being ping-ponged between upstreams
[17:53] <asac> oh that was upstream task
[17:53] <pitti> asac: no, ubottu is lying
[17:53] <asac> current statue of XID bug is "do not hide this too early" ... but most likely will get demoted
[17:54] <asac> and maybe warning output patched out of gtk for the release version
[17:54] <rickspencer3> pitti, I'm at a loss
[17:54] <pitti> asac: it didn't really sound like a kitten killer to me
[17:54] <rickspencer3> pitti, is this a data loss bug, or do users' computers go to sleep?
[17:55] <rickspencer3> d'oh, it's set to medium
[17:55] <rickspencer3> never mind, not even a "have to do"
[17:55] <pitti> rickspencer3: problem is that it doesn't go to sleep, just runs on and on until the battery browns out
[17:55] <pitti> anyway, I don't think we can do anything further here about the bug list
[17:55] <pitti> I propose we review the blueprint list
[17:55] <rickspencer3> ok, moving on to work items
[17:56] <rickspencer3> pitti, do want to drive this part?
[17:56] <pitti> sure
[17:56] <rickspencer3> I copied open items to the wiki (except for firefox blueprint)
[17:56] <kenvandine> which blueprint is the evo couch work item from?
[17:56] <pitti> I do this in conjunction with https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+specs?searchtext=desktop-karmic- sorted by delivery
[17:56] <kenvandine> that is DONE
[17:56] <pitti> I think we can safely DEFER the wine integration one now
[17:56] <pitti> any objection?
[17:57] <pitti> un-karmic-ed
[17:57] <rickspencer3> pitti, noe
[17:57] <pitti> desktop-karmic-input-methods
[17:58] <pitti> ArneGoetje: do we have the upgrade fix now for the scim->ibus switch?
[17:58] <ArneGoetje> pitti: I think so... for me it worked
[17:58] <pitti> the rest looks uncritical for alpha/beta, but please do the annonucement/test plan, shouldn't take much time
[17:58] <pitti> ArneGoetje: nice
[17:58] <ArneGoetje> pitti: will do
[17:59] <pitti>    desktop-karmic-network-ui
[17:59] <pitti> asac: there's mostly QA/testing, but will the WEP dialog still land? or shall we defer?
[18:00] <awe> pitti: the wep dialog changes were done by upstream
[18:00] <pitti> kenvandine: "look at feedback from users at feature freeze and decide what to use for karmic" -> that's DONE, isn't it? can you please update the WI?
[18:00] <kenvandine> sure
[18:00] <asac> pitti: the applet changes will land in a few days upstream. we are working on it with high prio
[18:00] <pitti> kenvandine: and "triage the empathy and telepathy bugs" sounds like a perpetual task, I think we should just drop that work item
[18:00] <pitti> asac: rocking
[18:00] <asac> not many. just a few nice things
[18:01] <pitti> ArneGoetje: language-selector changes are as good as they will be for karmic?
[18:01] <ArneGoetje> pitti: yes, still need some minor tweaks
[18:01] <kenvandine> pitti, done
[18:01] <pitti> ArneGoetje: the spec is at "Slow progress"; if the locale category split was deferred, I guess it should be a little further than that
[18:02] <pitti> kenvandine: "get package into main and default installation" for evo couch sounds done?
[18:02] <ArneGoetje> pitti: what status do you suggest?
[18:02] <kenvandine> pitti, i marked it as done
[18:02] <pitti> ArneGoetje: if the changes are by and large in, "beta avail"
[18:02] <ArneGoetje> pitti: ok, sounds good
[18:02] <pitti> ArneGoetje: if there's still substantial stuff missing, keep it
[18:02] <pitti> rickspencer3: can you please ask TheMuso about "gnome-speech-replacement" in the eastern edition?
[18:03] <pitti> I think that covers it
[18:03] <rickspencer3> pitti, yes
[18:03] <rickspencer3> ok, we just got a lesson in whip cracking, I think
[18:03] <pitti> anyone has some blocking problems with their specs?
[18:03] <seb1281> re
[18:03] <pitti> lots of them are in "beta avail" which is good, but there might be remaining WIs which cause problems?
[18:04] <seb1281> sorry some upgrade restarted my xorg session
[18:04] <pitti> seb1281: mine as well; something in the upstartification :-(
[18:04] <seb1281> and the system froze after login
[18:04] <pitti> seb1281: apt-get -f install, there's probably a million unconfigured packages left
[18:04] <seb1281> ie my laptop is rebooting, doing IRC from my netbook now
[18:04] <seb1281> thanks
[18:04] <rickspencer3> it's only going to get worse
[18:05]  * pitti hands mike back to rickspencer3
[18:05] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti
[18:05] <pitti> thanks all for the heads-up
[18:05] <rickspencer3> last item on the agenda ..
[18:05] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
[18:05] <pitti> oh, and @all: please update your WI states
[18:05] <pitti> http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/karmic/report.html has the completion percentages
[18:06] <tseliot> what does WI stand for?
[18:06] <rickspencer3> the QA team and the community are putting together a plan to significantly change the mix of bugs reports with versus without ubuntu-bugs
[18:06] <rickspencer3> tseliot, Work Item
[18:06] <rickspencer3> tseliot, I don't think you have any :)
[18:06] <rickspencer3> ok, so, ubuntu-bugs ...
[18:06] <tseliot> rickspencer3: ah, ok, thanks
[18:07] <rickspencer3> their concern atm is that have a complete page telling users how to use ubuntu-bugs
[18:07] <rickspencer3> so looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
[18:07] <rickspencer3> do we have the right packages documented in the right way?
[18:07] <pitti> argh, this should drop all the "-p"
[18:08] <asac> was there a reason to not keep the "-p" support with a warning for a while?
[18:08] <asac> i ran into that today too :)
[18:08] <pitti> rickspencer3: I add a stanza about storage devices, that has a very useful symptom script now
[18:08] <pitti> asac: well, we did..
[18:08] <asac> well. ubufox ran into it to be exact
[18:08] <asac> hmm
[18:08] <asac> ok
[18:08] <asac> pitti: one or two cycles?
[18:09] <pitti> asac: one, I think
[18:09] <asac> ok if it already warned us in jaunty its fine i think
[18:09] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to remove "-p" from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
[18:09]  * asac should use it more frequently
[18:09] <pitti> rickspencer3: too late, already done
[18:09]  * pitti ♥ editmoin
[18:10] <rickspencer3> ACTION: pitti to add section to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage about storage devices
[18:10] <rickspencer3> anything else?
[18:10] <rickspencer3> seb1281, anything gnome related?
[18:11] <seb1281> not really
[18:12] <rickspencer3> ok
[18:12] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[18:12] <seb1281> no
[18:12] <asac> anyone having 3g modem or phone might want to give current NM/modemmanager package a try
[18:12] <asac> and report bugs ... especially if there are regressions
[18:13] <pitti> asac: will do
[18:13] <rickspencer3> asac, I have a 3g modem for verizon, what do you want me to do?
[18:13] <rickspencer3> just dist-upgrade and try to connect?
[18:13] <awe> asac: me too
[18:14] <asac> rickspencer3: just try to use them
[18:14] <asac> yes
[18:14] <rickspencer3> will do
[18:14] <asac> great
[18:14] <asac> the more different modems we get tested now the more will work ;)
[18:14] <rickspencer3> asac, ok
[18:14] <rickspencer3> mine seems pretty popular in this area
[18:14] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[18:15] <rickspencer3> ok then
[18:15]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[18:15] <rickspencer3> thanks all!
[18:15] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[18:15] <pitti> thanks everyone
[18:15] <seb1281> thanks
[18:15] <tseliot> thanks
[18:16]  * awe says good night from taipei
[18:16] <chrisccoulson> hey seb1281
[18:16] <ccheney> thanks
[18:16] <seb1281> those updates closing running sessions are really annoying
[18:16] <seb1281> hello chrisccoulson
[18:16] <chrisccoulson> i just chatted to davidz about the GDU notifications, and he's already implemented an opt-out feature on a per-drive basis
[18:16] <tkamppeter> thanks
[18:16] <chrisccoulson> in the latest GIT
[18:16] <seb1281> chrisccoulson: ah, nice
[18:17] <chrisccoulson> but it depends on the latest DK-disks too
[18:17] <seb1281> karmic+1 then I guess
[18:17] <seb1281> or ffe request
[18:17] <chrisccoulson> seb1281 - possibly - i don't know how much has changed in DK-disks recently
[18:17] <seb1281> are the changes complicated ones?
[18:17] <seb1281> pitti might know?
[18:17] <chrisccoulson> perhaps pitti has been following it more than me. i've not looked at the other changes yet
[18:17] <chrisccoulson> yeah
[18:19] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I just checked yesterday, dk-disks head is trivial change compared to our release in karmic
[18:19] <asac> thanks
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> pitti - sounds good then. i'll have a look at the gdu changes compared to what we already have too
[18:19] <pitti> chrisccoulson: except the "rework smart handling", which I rather not cherrypick, but seems unrelated
[18:20] <chrisccoulson> i'll have a look and see if thats necessary for the gdu changes
[18:21] <seb128> re
[18:21] <seb128> ok, so Keybuk's changes lead to close running sessions after upgrades
[18:21] <seb128> not nice
[18:21] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it looks like the "rework smart handling" is part of the changes needed for GDU too
[18:21] <Keybuk> seb128: no idea why
[18:22] <Keybuk> seb128: if you can help with that, it'd be useful
[18:22] <Keybuk> to me, it looks like X *crashes*
[18:22] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i haven't dared to upgrade yet today;)
[18:22] <Keybuk> I often lose keyboard and mouse first
[18:24] <seb128> Keybuk, I would bet on dbus restarting rather but I could be wrong
[18:24] <Keybuk> I'm not restarting dbus though afaict
[18:25] <Keybuk> HAL does get restarted, but it did before
[18:26] <Keybuk> likewise udev
[18:51] <mvo> does someone has the cycles to look at a language-selector merge? lp:%7Earnegoetje/language-selector/language-selector-karmic/ into the lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/language-selector/ubuntu branch (just checking if it looks all ok)
[19:04] <Amaranth> whoops, slept too long
[19:05] <Amaranth> killed my cold though :)
[19:09] <mvo> Amaranth: excellent!
[19:10]  * mvo &
[19:29] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, I think we can merge that, but not before alpha-6
[19:29] <chrisccoulson> pitti - DK-disks right?
[19:29] <pitti> chrisccoulson: right
[19:29] <chrisccoulson> excellent. i'll take a look at GDU if you want then
[19:30] <chrisccoulson> at least users will be able to opt out of the disk notifications then:)
[19:30] <chrisccoulson> brb (hopefully, if my machine boots again!)
[19:30] <pitti> chrisccoulson: excellent
[20:18] <chrisccoulson> that didn't go very well!
[20:24] <chrisccoulson> Keybuk - is "udevd[1001]: unknown key 'SYMLINK{unique}' in /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:3" being displayed on startup anything to be particularly worried about?
[20:24] <chrisccoulson> (the machine doesn't boot btw)
[20:25] <Keybuk> no, it's nothing to worry about
[20:25] <Keybuk> we're testing a GIT HEAD version of udev for upstream
[20:25] <Keybuk> it has a few warnings that I'll sort out at plumbers with him next week
[20:25] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, that's the only thing displayed now :-/
[20:28] <rickspencer3-afk> eeejay, O
[20:28] <rickspencer3-afk> eeejay, I'm about to head to u-district to meet an old friend, at ...
[20:28] <rickspencer3-afk> allegro
[20:32] <eeejay> rickspencer3-afk, cool!
[20:33] <rickspencer3-afk> eeejay, if you want to meet up, I'll be done talking to this guy around 2:30, maybe
[20:35] <eeejay> rickspencer3-afk, neat, i might swing by, if I am in the area
[20:35] <rickspencer3-afk> kewl
[20:51] <seb128> Keybuk, still there?
[20:51] <Keybuk> seb128: if you're quick
[20:51] <seb128> Keybuk, it's "invoke-rc.d dbus force-reload" which creates the issue
[20:51] <seb128> Keybuk, it seems to restart dbus
[20:51] <Keybuk> oh, weird
[20:51] <Keybuk> didn't it before?
[20:52] <seb128> running "sudo invoke-rc.d dbus force-reload" do the same
[20:52] <seb128> no
[20:52] <seb128> I tried using startx
[20:52] <seb128> and running nautilus
[20:52] <lool> seb128: Hey, sorry it's late, LP #420238 is marked fix released but I cant find a corresponding upload, it it really the case?
[20:52] <seb128> nautilus exit because dbus restart
[20:52] <seb128> gdm exit as well if you use it
[20:52] <Keybuk> ahh
[20:52] <Keybuk> thanks
[20:52] <Keybuk> I'll dig into that
[20:52] <seb128> lool, hey, if I'm on IRC no reason to be sorry to ping me ;-)
[20:52] <Keybuk> should be a simple fix
[20:53] <seb128> Keybuk, you're welcome, thanks
[20:53] <seb128> lool, no idea it has been closed by tedg, ask him rather
[20:54] <lool> seb128: Ok I saw you acted on the bug and thought you have sponsored it
[20:54] <lool> tedg: Around?
[20:54] <seb128> lool, let me look
[20:54] <lool> tedg: LP #420238 is marked fix released but I just got it with up-to-date UNR image from today
[20:54]  * tedg looking
[20:55] <lool> I have version 0.1.3-0ubuntu1 in the live image and I got this error on startup
[20:55] <lool> perhaps it's a subtly different crash and I can file a new bug if you like
[20:55] <seb128> lool, yes it should be fixed, the commit is from 2 weeks ago and we did update that some days ago
[20:55] <lool> seb128: Ok got a crash from virtualbox booting a fresh daily iso with latest versions so I think it's another bug in the same function
[20:56] <lool> tedg, seb128: Just filed #430264 about that; thanks!
[20:58] <seb128> lool, thanks
[20:58] <lool> tedg: Also I got a popup saying FastUserSwitchApplet couldn't be loaded on startup (just before the indicator-session crash); I see some relevant errors in .xsession-errors
[20:58] <lool> tedg: Would you mind having a look and telling me whether it's the same bug or another one?
[20:58] <tedg> lool: Sure.
[20:59]  * lool installs something to push .xsession-errors
[21:00] <tedg> There was also the error with starting up Evo that was a dbusmenu issue.  I don't think that one's been packaged.
[21:00] <seb128> no it has no but that one is an assert not a sigsegv
[21:00] <tedg> Ah, yes.
[21:01] <lool> tedg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/271680/
[21:01] <seb128> bug #427819
[21:01] <lool> tedg: So you can see ** (gnome-panel:3444): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1344: failed to load applet OAFIID:GNOME_IndicatorApplet (cannot get property bag):
[21:02] <lool> tedg: and ** (gnome-panel:3444): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1344: failed to load applet OAFIID:GNOME_FastUserSwitchApplet (cannot get property bag):
[21:02] <lool> and later apport starting
[21:02] <tedg> lool: Yeah, honestly I have no idea how that stuff works, it's all libapplet magic...
[21:03] <seb128> asac, any idea how I could get greasemonkey to work again? it's blocking bug triage for me
[21:03]  * tedg doesn't even know where to buy a property bag
[21:05] <lool> tedg: Ok so who would be the right person to work on this issue?
[21:07] <tedg> lool: Uhm, I don't know really.  It seems to be something with starting up the applets... do you have other applets in your panel?
[21:07] <lool> tedg: Yes
[21:07] <lool> tedg: It's a regular gnome-panel
[21:07] <lool> tedg: The default config in UNR
[21:08] <lool> tedg: Do you guys do alphas testing?  Perhaps you can checkout the current UNR ISO up for testing in virtualbox?
[21:09] <lool> tedg: On a second boot it didn't happen, got no error
[21:09] <lool> So it looks like a race
[21:10] <tedg> Second boot or second login?
[21:10] <lool> tedg: Fresh boot of an UNR iso
[21:10] <lool> no persistence
[21:10] <lool> Just the same thing
[21:11] <tedg> Oh, okay.  Hmm... which means depending on machine configuration it may or may not happen.
[21:11] <lool> tedg: Yes, well I'd rather depending on timing
[21:13] <tedg> I wonder if it's something starting up CORBA and the panel.  Is there some way to know whether they're the first applets to load or not?
[21:14] <lool> tedg: I guess you can add debug to the panel or strace?
[21:14] <lool> tedg: I can hand you the default gconf config which has the default applets
[21:15] <lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/271686/
[21:15] <lool> /apps/panel/applets/applet_0/bonobo_iid OAFIID:GNOME_GoHome etc.
[21:15] <tedg> They probably go in order... I would guess.
[21:24] <tedg> lool: I don't see anything descriptive in gnome-panel.  Unsurprisingly, property_bag is NULL :)
[21:24] <lool> seb128: Hey do you know why there are three evolution .desktop files?
[21:24] <lool> evolution: /usr/share/applications/evolution-2.2.desktop
[21:24] <lool> evolution: /usr/share/applications/evolution-mail.desktop
[21:24] <lool> evolution-common: /usr/share/applications/evolution.desktop
[21:25] <lool> tedg: Eh  :)
[21:25] <seb128> one is a compatibility one for gnome-panel profiles using 2.2
[21:25] <seb128> one is to start the previously used component
[21:25] <seb128> and one always starts the mailer component
[21:25] <lool> Ok
[21:26] <seb128> there was some discussion about having several for the different components
[21:26] <seb128> having one specific for the mailer or not, etc
[21:26] <lool> seb128: I think it would be ok if the icons looked different
[21:26] <seb128> but no really strong argument so we never changed it
[21:26] <lool> Or were named more differently
[21:26] <lool> For instance Evolution Suite versus Evolution Mail
[21:26] <lool> seb128: The issue I just faced with UNR is the following: it comes with a default list of Favorites
[21:27] <lool> I browsed to Internet and saw Evo, added it to Favorites and now it looks as if I'd have too of them
[21:27] <lool> But one is actually Evolution Mail and Calendar and the other Evolution Mail
[21:27] <tedg> seb128: Looks like we need all three of them: http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html#Triggering
[21:27] <lool> I think it's not trivial to discover for an end user
[21:29] <lool> seb128: Or perhaps having one Calendar and one Mail entry in Office and one Mail entry in Internet?
[21:31] <pitti> good night everyone
[21:31] <lool> night
[21:52] <seb128> re
[21:52] <seb128> hey huats
[21:53] <huats> hello seb
[21:53] <huats> ...
[22:24] <mpt> lool, the most thorough solution to that would be to split Evolution into separate programs :-)
[22:24] <mpt> (but also the most difficult)
[22:25] <mpt> The next most thorough and difficult would be to abolish the "Internet" category
[22:25] <lool> Eh
[22:26] <lool> mpt: I filed a bug on this; perhaps you share some short term insights?
[22:26] <lool> Hmm why dont I see them
[22:26] <mpt> Someone subscribed me to a bug report about the "Ibus Preferences" and now I'm depressed
[22:27] <lool> haha
[22:27] <lool> mpt: 430287 but seb128 duped it
[22:27] <lool> which is why I couldn't find i
[22:27] <mpt> so as long as your bug report doesn't have the same effect
[22:27] <lool> it
[22:28] <lool> mpt: Did you see karmic UNR already?
[22:28] <mpt> Would be cool if Launchpad could say "But there are 2 duplicates that match your search, how about these:"
[22:28] <lool> mpt: I filed a couple of bugs where I felt I needed a designer to tell what the right thing to do would be
[22:28] <mpt> lool, I have not, I browsed the office last week for a computer running UNR and could not find one
[22:29] <lool> mpt: e.g. 430270, 430289, and 430290
[22:29] <lool> mpt: that's sad
[22:29] <mpt> But our venturesome project manager has installed it, so I shall see it on Friday I expect
[22:30]  * mpt mails himself about those bug reports
[22:35] <lool> mpt: Thanks