[01:54] <doctormo> hello
[02:00] <pleia2> alright folks, time for the ubuntu community learning project meeting
[02:00] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[02:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 20:00. The chair is pleia2.
[02:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[02:00] <pleia2> [TOPIC] Workflow and Document formats
[02:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Workflow and Document formats
[02:00] <pleia2> so currently our workflow is: write .odt documents, commit to bzr, release as pdfs
[02:01] <pleia2> doctormo, BiosElement, can you go into why this isn't optimal?
[02:02] <dinda> pleia2: I can make some general statements why that not might be optimal
[02:03] <pleia2> dinda: great, go ahead :)
[02:03] <dinda> 1. the html odt creates is often not the best
[02:03] <dinda> very messy
[02:03] <dinda> 2. bzr can be a barrier to entry for new folks
[02:04] <doctormo> sure
[02:04] <ScottK> Can bzr diff .odts?
[02:04] <BiosElement> I'll chime in and also state a major advantage is revision control can record each line change. Also a consistent format can be difficult to keep.
[02:04] <dinda> 3. pdfs then add another step to the overall process
[02:04] <doctormo> ScottK: Not really, it's a zip file
[02:04] <dinda> ScottK: I don't think so
[02:05] <dinda> a zip file?  then you really can't do diffs can you?
[02:05] <doctormo> pleia2: OK to begin, the rationale for using bzr is that revision control and distribution takes advantage of a lot of work already done on tools and places to store in development materials so the whole community can get a tthem.
[02:06] <ScottK> You can't really do revision control on binary files (like zips), AFAICT.
[02:06] <dinda> except does that really gain you anything if you can't have diffs?
[02:06] <BiosElement> dinda, I think so. It makes collaborating much easier.
[02:06] <pleia2> only ease of collaboration
[02:07] <dinda> bzr was used when we did the desktop course but we were using docbook
[02:07] <BiosElement> Also if you decide you didn't like a change you made last week/month, you can find it again.
[02:07] <doctormo> http://imagebin.ca/view/03hE4BoC.html <- If you look at this screen shot, you can see my "easy to get" project tool for lowing the barrier for bzr and launchpad
[02:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://imagebin.ca/view/03hE4BoC.html <- If you look at this screen shot, you can see my "easy to get" project tool for lowing the barrier for bzr and launchpad
[02:07] <dinda> but you still have to know what you're getting . . .
[02:08] <doctormo> I believe that the current CLI based tools aren't easy enough, but it can be made easier and I think we should make it so.
[02:08] <dinda> seems the issue comes down to what type of contributors you want at this level?
[02:08] <pleia2> doctormo: you also mentioned that odt makes translations and such tricky?
[02:08] <doctormo> (I'm not going to get into data formats yet as that is a seperate thing from workflow)
[02:08] <dinda> doctormo: but it does affect it
[02:09] <doctormo> dinda: Correct, but we'll get to that, I want to deal with the bzr concerns first
[02:09] <dinda> b/c if you want easy translations as part of the workflow
[02:09] <pleia2> I think we can agree that lacking diffs with binary files (like .odt) is a problem and we probably want to go with something that is RCS friendly
[02:09] <pleia2> dinda: are there tools that make docbook easier to work with?
[02:09] <dinda> we haven't found any Moodle plug-ins or anything other process control for RCS within moodle yet
[02:10] <dinda> believe me I've been searching for a way to marry RCS with Moodle
[02:10] <pleia2> I'm also wondering if we can accept course drafts and then have team members translate to docbook (I wouldn't mind doing a bit of this)
[02:10] <doctormo> The advantage to using bzr/launchpad combo is that not only can we take avantage of collaberation dynamic mixing but we can also import the text strings into the community translation tools so long as we can make pot files.
[02:10] <BiosElement> dinda, Couldn't the "course/textbook" be seperate from moodle itself?
[02:11] <pleia2> BiosElement: yeah, I think we could import stuff into moodle as html - so whatever tool we use (docbook, whatever) we export to html
[02:11]  * doctormo gives up, lets talk about formats then
[02:11] <dinda> doctormo: can you use odt files to make pot files?
[02:11] <doctormo> dinda: Not that I know of
[02:11] <BiosElement> pleia2, But would that be ideal? IIRC moodle didn't have the best system for managing actual textbook style pages.
[02:11] <pleia2> moodle will be the last step in this process, once the corse is completed
[02:12] <doctormo> indeed, moodle is the publishing target
[02:13] <dinda> linuxchix uses moodle as both the development tool and publishing tool
[02:13] <dinda> it's simple and low barrier to entry
[02:13] <pleia2> ah, interesting
[02:13] <doctormo> dinda: Aye, but development wise, it's got problems with permissions.
[02:13] <dinda> doctormo: only at the admin level
[02:14] <dinda> you can customise course creators and/or teachers, any role with custom permissions
[02:14] <doctormo> dinda: Differences between writers, drafters, reviewers and artists. I'm not confident in moodle as a development platform. I'
[02:14] <doctormo> m used to better tools
[02:15] <dinda> doctormo: dunno, we've been using it with those various roles pretty well
[02:15] <BiosElement> Just to be frank, I think the way moodle manages actual "documents" is horrid. I think it's best to keep the actual course books separate.
[02:15] <dinda> I make my reviewers student in a development course but the final course is a copied final published course
[02:15] <doctormo> dinda: It also doesn't help that my 7 calls for internal team training from those that know moodle has fallen flat. Ignored. Since I was the only one developing, I can only use tools I know how to use.
[02:16] <BiosElement> I'd much rather see a moodle page giving an overview and saying "Read this page (link)".
[02:16] <pleia2> doctormo: did you read the moodle course that cprofitt put up?
[02:16] <pleia2> that's what we have for internal team training right now
[02:16] <doctormo> pleia2: Yes, and from that I wasn't impressed with the tools.
[02:16] <dinda> BiosElement: then you kind of defeat the whole purpose of having a Moodle LMS why not just a drupal site?
[02:16] <pleia2> ok, just making sure :)
[02:17] <dinda> doctormo: your frustration is what I feel whenever i try to use Bzr ;)
[02:17] <doctormo> dinda: If moodle can manage publication and course management. Then it's useful.
[02:17] <BiosElement> dinda, Because moodle can manage the courses, messaging, etc. I don't think moodle itself is bad, I just think it'll be a mess to manage course books using it.
[02:17] <doctormo> dinda: But I'm willing to fix the problems with bzr/launchpad as shown, there is not expertiese to fix moodle problems.
[02:18] <dinda> ok, so we're back to who do you want writing courses?  what kind of contributor?  only those with LP/bzr knowledge?
[02:19] <doctormo> Although I'm willing to change my mind, if I can be educated (not just RTFMed) on moodle and it can be shown to provide the same kind of community collaberation.
[02:19] <doctormo> dinda: Why would you need bzr/lp knowlege?
[02:19] <dinda> doctormo: very interesting b/c I've heard the same from another techy in regards to trying to use Moodle whereas I find Moodle easy and Bzr the harder problem
[02:20] <BiosElement> dinda, Your sticking point is bzr/lp. Firstly, it's not that hard and doctormo is working on making it easier. Secondly, I'd question if someone was going to teach a class and refused to learn anything themselves.
[02:20] <dinda> BiosElement: yet it sounds like no one wants to learn Moodle better
[02:20] <pleia2> dinda: I think the major problem is that we don't have any moodle experts on the team
[02:21] <doctormo> BiosElement: that's true, but we do have to make the barrier to entry rediculasly easy.
[02:21] <doctormo> dinda: What's hard about going into a directory and clicking on "Add Project" and getting all the files? Editing all the files and then clicking on another button that says "Publish My Changes"
[02:22] <BiosElement> Just to throw this out there, since drupal was mentioned would 'that' be an easier platform to work with?
[02:22] <doctormo> BiosElement: Requires devel right?
[02:23] <dinda> moodle already has the custom interface, navigation for basic courses. . .
[02:23] <BiosElement> doctormo, What does? Drupal? I could probably get it setup if someone would design a style for it.
[02:23] <dinda> BiosElement: Popey has used it for the new screencast site
[02:23] <doctormo> dinda: I'm willing to learn moodle, if anyone was willing to teach it.
[02:23] <dinda> doctormo: this is where the edubuntu team might be called on. .
[02:24] <dinda> surely someone over there is using it
[02:24] <BiosElement> doctormo, I'm happy to learn moodle too. I 'do know drupal though if it's needed.
[02:24] <dinda> doctormo: I'd offer some time but today is literally the first day in months I've had to do any community time
[02:24] <doctormo> dinda: Proponents for moodle teaching etc etc
[02:25] <pleia2> doctormo: if I found someone to help out, would you be willing to walk through adding one of our existing courses to moodle and the workflow?
[02:25] <pleia2> s/our/your
[02:25]  * dinda goes through her list of Moodle-ites from other open source projects. . . 
[02:25] <doctormo> dinda: I'm not trying to be a pain, but we can really only work with resources that are available, people's time is just as much of a resource that must be managed.
[02:25] <doctormo> pleia2: Of course, we have a moodle site
[02:25] <dinda> doctormo: totally understand
[02:25] <BiosElement> I'm with doctormo. I don't mean to offend anyone or step on toes.
[02:26] <pleia2> ok, so important thing - find a moodle expert whose brain we can use :)
[02:26] <dinda> doctormo: it's just a different pain point for you with moodle like it is for me with bzr
[02:27] <doctormo> dinda: You can be my guienea pig for whatever I come up with for lowing that pain
[02:27] <dinda> can anyone think of other projects where we can find a moodle person?
[02:27] <pleia2> [ACTION] Find Moodle expert
[02:27] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Find Moodle expert
[02:28] <dinda> ok, so lets go back to workflow for a moment
[02:29] <dinda> it really doesn't matter what the original content is written but if you know you're ultimately publishing in Moodle then you need it to be html and preferably moodle-html friendly
[02:29] <dinda> otherwise you just get a list of links to pages, which could just as easily be any webpage
[02:30]  * dinda goes to see if I can find an example to demo. . .
[02:30] <pleia2> http://docs.moodle.org/en/HTML_in_Moodle
[02:30] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://docs.moodle.org/en/HTML_in_Moodle
[02:31] <dinda> i know when we tried to copy and paste from odt it was horrid ugly results
[02:31] <pleia2> good to know
[02:31] <dinda> we had to have the webmaster add styles to the overall site and that can be a real issue if the server is also hosting other sites
[02:32] <ScottK> For your Moodle expert, you might want to mail the edubuntu list.  Edubuntu has Moodle, so you might find someone.
[02:32] <doctormo> dinda: OK this is where BiosElement's new sphinx format comes in
[02:32] <ScottK> edubuntu-users.
[02:32] <dinda> I'll take the action to email the edubuntu list
[02:32] <doctormo> dinda: not only is it easier to get into pot files for lp translations, but it converts to html first and then into pdf/odf later
[02:32] <pleia2> I think the server is just running moodle right now
[02:33] <doctormo> BiosElement: Can you explain the process?
[02:33] <BiosElement> Sure thing
[02:34] <BiosElement> Basically you create a formatted text file using reStructuredText. You then simply "make html" and it compiles into formatted html files. You can see an example with the python docs.
[02:37] <doctormo> So far this process is just research, but it looks very promising so long as we can run some contributor user tests to make sure it's easy to use.
[02:37] <dinda> BiosElement: is reStructuredText a format?  or application that creates the text file?
[02:38] <doctormo> dinda: It seems similar to writing wiki pages.
[02:38] <dinda> online?
[02:38] <doctormo> dinda: except that
[02:38] <pleia2> is there a benefit to using reStructuredText over DocBook?
[02:39] <pleia2> either way you need to learn some kind of syntaxing, and docbook is more popular
[02:39] <doctormo> pleia2: DocBook has not been investigated yet
[02:39] <pleia2> personally I'd much rather learn docbook
[02:39] <doctormo> BiosElement: Would you be willing to look into docbook and doing a branch that uses it?
[02:39] <BiosElement> dinda, I haven't researched docbook yet but I recall the python team doing so and creating their own. Regardless I'll look into it
[02:40] <dinda> We use Docbook for various things.  . . it's just as painful as anything else ;)
[02:40] <dinda> but the Doc Team also uses it so that was an advantage for us
[02:40] <pleia2> yeah
[02:41]  * dinda wonders what happens when you paste a wiki page into Moodle. . .
[02:41] <doctormo> pleia2: If BiosElement can learn DocBook, then we not only can get a fair comparison, but also might be able to take the best ideas from both
[02:42] <pleia2> I've only used docbook briefly in one project, the advantage of it being a sort of "industry standard" is big
[02:43] <doctormo> All I'm concerned about is that I can make my course modual, I can collaberate with drafters and editors easily and that it will export to pdf files for my physical students. Translations, html output and publishing vectors for online courses are all my team concerns.
[02:43] <pleia2> I don't have tons of time to learn things, need to consider marketable skills ;) I'm sure I'm not the only one
[02:44] <dinda> doctormo: docbook does make nice PDFs. . .
[02:44] <doctormo> pleia2: Sure, do you know of any docbook editors? gui ones? can you combine multiple docbook files into one?
[02:45] <dinda> doctormo: lots of docbook folks on the doc team,  gui editors - I used Bluefish
[02:45] <dinda> and yes you can combiine multiple files into one book
[02:45] <doctormo> dinda: Sounds like we have a lot of research to do.
[02:46] <dinda> doctormo: where you lost time - as in any process is in the publishing, aka Make step
[02:46] <dinda> you make the changes in text, then each time you want a new pdf, you have to remake the book again
[02:46] <dinda> even to change a comma!
[02:46] <BiosElement> dinda, Make step for what? It takes 5 seconds. I think that's a non-issue.
[02:46] <doctormo> Yes of course, that's why you publish versions.
[02:47] <dinda> BiosElement: not in my experience, do a Make, go get coffee, wait, but then my book was over 400 pages
[02:47] <dinda> and 528 images
[02:47] <doctormo> yes that makes sense
[02:48] <doctormo> OK we're comming up to 47 mins for this meeting, pleia2 do we have some more action items and conclusions?
[02:48] <BiosElement> dinda, I tried it with the python docs and it was finished before I could even switch over to check the html folder. Images probably slowed it.
[02:48]  * doctormo doesn't think any book/pdf should ever be more than 20 pages.
[02:49] <dinda> okay, email sent to edubuntu list
[02:49] <pleia2> doctormo: I think we're set, let's just wrap up
[02:49] <doctormo> pleia2: over to you
[02:50] <pleia2> so in addition to finding a moodle person
[02:50] <pleia2> [ACTION] Explore DocBook option
[02:50] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Explore DocBook option
[02:50] <dinda> Can I ask where we are on the Server hosting issue?
[02:50] <pleia2> dinda: for now we're still up at learn.ubft.net
[02:51] <pleia2> I think we want to keep moving forward with course development in spite of our uncertainty for final formats, stalling more is bad bad :)
[02:51] <pleia2> we can always convert things from .odt later
[02:51] <pleia2> if people want to contribute but have trouble with bzr, they can ask one of us who is familiar with it to upload for collaboration
[02:52] <pleia2> BiosElement: if you do have a draft of how to use bzr for now, that'd be helpful
[02:52] <pleia2> I keep giving people the irc log
[02:52] <dinda> are you forcing anyone who wants to write a course to use Bzr?
[02:52] <pleia2> dinda: no, as I say, one of us can upload it for now if they can't/don't want to
[02:53] <pleia2> until we have a better collaboration method
[02:53] <pleia2> for now we need *somewhere* we all can get to, and bzr is what we have in place
[02:53] <dinda> pleia2: but if someone just wanted to develop a course in Moodle. . . okay, you've just lost all nontechnical contributors
[02:54] <pleia2> dinda: but we don't know moodle yet, I don't want to wait another 2 months to do development :(
[02:54] <pleia2> this is just a temporary collaboratoin measure until we have something better
[02:54] <dinda> I'm trying to understand where you guys are stuck with Moodle?
[02:54] <dinda> doctormo: where is the sticking point?
[02:54] <doctormo> dinda: Don't know how to use it
[02:55] <dinda> who are the current Moodle server admins?
[02:56] <dinda> and how does one request that they want to create a course there?
[02:56] <pleia2> the server itself, or moodle admins?
[02:56] <dinda> both
[02:56] <pleia2> bodhi is the server admin, he added all board members as moodle admins (which includes doctormo and myself)
[02:56] <pleia2> but we don't have a clue as to how to use it
[02:57] <dinda> Can I request to be made a Moodle admin? and maybe I can help out gettign courses started
[02:57] <pleia2> I think that'll be fine :)
[02:57]  * dinda can't believe she just asked for yet admin on yet another moodle instance
[02:58] <pleia2> lol
[02:58] <dinda> If they can set me up as an admin, we use next Monday night's slot for some Moodle instruction
[02:59] <dinda> pleia2: can you take an action to request I be given admin on the server?
[02:59] <dinda> I'll take an action to be here next Monday evening, same bat time to answer any getting started questions
[03:00] <doctormo> Sounds good, I'll have the action of attending, remember to send an email to the list
[03:00] <pleia2> dinda: I just added you
[03:00] <dinda> we can do it i n#ubuntu-learning for next week
[03:00] <pleia2> dinda: learn.ufbt.net - login with your launchpad.net/~dinda account
[03:01] <dinda> email sent to edubuntu list as well asking for Moodle person
[03:01] <pleia2> \o/
[03:01] <pleia2> [ACTION] dinda added as Moodle Admin
[03:01] <MootBot> ACTION received:  dinda added as Moodle Admin
[03:01] <dinda> and nobody tell my boss, okay!  ;)
[03:01]  * pleia2 chuckles
[03:01]  * dinda can hear elmo laughing right now
[03:01] <doctormo> ok, i'll continue to see what can be done for lowering bzr/lp access. BiosElement can deal with formats, pleia2and dinda can look into publishing. Sounds like we got a plan :-D
[03:02] <pleia2> :)
[03:02] <pleia2> thanks everyone!
[03:02] <dinda> doctormo: yes, pleas continue on that front as well!
[03:02] <dinda> thanks all
[03:02] <doctormo> time to get back home, I've been enjoying tea at a friend's house
[03:02] <doctormo> thanks all
[03:03] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[03:03] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 21:03.
[11:23] <gQuigs> community council meeting?
[11:29] <sbc> gQuigs: I tink it may be in one hour. But the info at the fridge, and the CCAgenda wiki page are inconsistent. I don't know which is the one to go by.
[11:34] <gQuigs> yea I noticed that as well.. oh well... just trying to see if I can show up on time to meetings :)
[11:36] <czajkowski> sbc: aye tis a bit confusing alright.
[11:41] <mez> am I too late for the meeting?
[11:41] <czajkowski> mez: we're not sure it's on, wiki conflicts with calender
[11:42] <mez> Wiki says it's in 15 mins...
[11:42] <czajkowski> Mez:
[11:42] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[11:43] <Mez> # 11:00 UTC, 3rd Tuesday of the month
[11:43] <Mez> it's the third tuesday.
[11:43] <Mez>  Tue Sep 15 10:43:28 UTC 2009
[11:43] <Mez> (date --utc)
[14:01] <lool> dyfet, plars, GrueMaster, StevenK, ogra, paulliu, persia, amitk, bfiller: hey
[14:01] <paulliu> hi
[14:01]  * StevenK shores
[14:01] <plars> aqui
[14:01]  * ogra burps
[14:01] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[14:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:01. The chair is NCommander.
[14:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:01] <lool> davidm: Hey
[14:01]  * NCommander groans his way to life
[14:01] <dyfet> hi
[14:02] <lool> njpatel: Hey
[14:02] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090915
[14:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090915
[14:03] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
[14:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
[14:04]  * NCommander waits for people
[14:04] <paulliu> hi
[14:04] <NCommander> so whos here?
[14:05]  * ogra isnt ...
[14:05] <lool> NCommander: All the people who said "Hey" or "Hi" or something else in the last 5 minutes?
[14:05] <JamieBennett>  hi all
[14:05] <lool> Hey JamieBennett!
[14:05] <NCommander> morning bjf
[14:05] <ogra> JamieBennett, !!!
[14:05]  * bjf sorry, chatting away elsewhere 
[14:05] <ogra> welcome !
[14:05] <NCommander> JamieBennett, !^10
[14:05] <bjf> morning all
[14:05] <NCommander> (bahahaha)
[14:06] <lool> NCommander: Ok; let's move on
[14:06] <NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
[14:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
[14:06] <lool> NCommander: I updated agenda a couple of seconds ago to cover an action which hadn't been closed in a meeting
[14:06] <NCommander> [topic] NCommander to create netboot install for z0 [co]
[14:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to create netboot install for z0 [co]
[14:07] <ogra> you missed one
[14:07] <lool> doesn't matter, we'll cover later
[14:07] <NCommander> ogra, I didn't feel like re-copy and pasting :-P, I'll get it after this one
[14:07] <NCommander> c/o still
[14:07] <NCommander> [topic] dyfet to get lxde-meta sponsored [co]
[14:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  dyfet to get lxde-meta sponsored [co]
[14:07] <davidm> hey lool
[14:07] <dyfet> Done
[14:07] <lool> So lubuntu-meta was uploaded
[14:07] <lool> By Julien Lavergne
[14:07] <lool> dyfet: Kind of
[14:08] <ogra> dyfet, broken though, please remove ubiquity from the desktop seed
[14:08] <ogra> its definately wrong there
[14:08] <dyfet> Hmm...it must be inherited then...okay, I can do that
[14:08] <ogra> it was explicitly added according to the changelog of the upload
[14:08] <lool> dyfet: I wonder why the seeds are in +junk instead of, well, ubuntu-seeds?
[14:09] <ogra>  * Added ubiquity-frontend-gtk to desktop
[14:10] <NCommander> [action] dyfet to remove ubiquty from lubuntu desktop seed
[14:10] <MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet to remove ubiquty from lubuntu desktop seed
[14:10] <dyfet> hmm...was not added by me...that was the point of not having an open release team :)
[14:10] <NCommander> Anything else on this one?
[14:11] <ogra> NCommander, can you change that action to "dyfet to clean up the lubuntu seeds"
[14:11] <dyfet> Julian added it :)
[14:11] <lool> dyfet: Can I action you to fix the bzr URL?
[14:11] <NCommander> [action] dyfet to clean up the lubuntu seeds
[14:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet to clean up the lubuntu seeds
[14:11] <lool> and get that sponsored
[14:11] <ogra> i suspect there is a lot of other stuff to clean up
[14:11] <lool> Ok I guess that covers it
[14:11] <dyfet> lool: yes on bzr also
[14:11] <NCommander> [topic] # lool to switch moblin p3a to public
[14:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  # lool to switch moblin p3a to public
[14:11] <lool> So I tried that
[14:12] <lool> But you cant do that
[14:12] <lool> Because private PPAs use a separate librarian etc.
[14:12] <lool> So instead we need to copy/move the packages to a public PPA
[14:12] <lool> Since the jaunty PPA was still used for OEM builds, and it was just before a milestone we deferred
[14:12] <NCommander> you have to do it manually
[14:12] <NCommander> sadly
[14:12] <lool> Ideally we'd merge this with the ~moblin PPA stuff
[14:13] <lool> Or just copy everything to another public PPA if we're lazy
[14:13] <lool> We need to discuss next steps with rest of moblin team
[14:13] <paulliu> Minor problem is the new public PPA have to increase the quota because I remember we enlarge the quote twice for that private PPA.
[14:13] <paulliu> quota
[14:13] <lool> So I propose closing this action and we will setup a meeting with ~ubuntu-moblin to discuss next steps
[14:13] <NCommander> paulliu, just file a question against Soyuz to get that bumped
[14:14] <lool> paulliu: Good point; that speaks in favor of reusing the ~moblin PPA
[14:14] <NCommander> [action] lool to setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here w/ results
[14:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here w/ results
[14:14] <NCommander> [action] paulliu to file question against soyuz on PPA size
[14:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  paulliu to file question against soyuz on PPA size
[14:14] <lool> Well not sure we want that but we will sort it out
[14:15] <NCommander> That all on this one?
[14:15] <lool> Yes
[14:15] <NCommander> [topic] UMR Discussion (Leader: lool) (Time: 15m)
[14:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  UMR Discussion (Leader: lool) (Time: 15m)
[14:15] <lool> Oh we have a time limit now, interesting
[14:15] <NCommander> lool, tired of going over
[14:15] <NCommander> figure its a good way to get people to self-regulate
[14:16] <lool> we didn't run over in the last two weeks and first two weeks where we had UMR status...   :)
[14:16] <lool> So moblin status is relatively poor
[14:16] <lool> The biggest issue is the port of moblin upstream sources to the new telepathy-mission-control
[14:16] <lool> We cant build images again before that's done, or we will have to revert to an older t-m-c which is going the wrong way about this
[14:17] <lool> Apart of that, syncs to karmic happened, we need to proceed with the next round of karmic merges next week
[14:17] <lool> The more karmic, the less pain
[14:17] <lool> There's also talk about compliance efforts; we want to start looking at fixing compliance issues
[14:18] <lool> I think that's all I have; paulliu
[14:18] <lool> paulliu: anything on your side?
[14:18] <lool> Nothing on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-moblin except the approved FFE
[14:18] <paulliu> lool: No. That's all.
[14:18] <lool> Actually we should file that tmc issue
[14:19] <lool> paulliu: Mind filing a bug on the tmc issue?
[14:19] <lool> paulliu: +target at karmic
[14:19] <paulliu> lool: So I'll look into that t-m-c.
[14:19] <paulliu> lool: ok.
[14:19] <lool> paulliu: Over next week we need to update the list of packages which can be pushed to karmic for round 2
[14:19] <plars> lool: there are bugs against it, just haven't been through the review and subscription yet
[14:19] <lool> NCommander: Done with UMR
[14:19] <paulliu> lool: Against Ubuntu or ~ubuntu-moblin?
[14:19] <lool> paulliu: Just sub ~ubuntu-movlin
[14:19] <paulliu> lool: ok.
[14:20] <lool> paulliu: and if it's in Ubuntu, target to the karmic release
[14:20] <paulliu> OK.
[14:20] <NCommander> [topic] UNR Status (leader: StevenK} (timelimit 15 minutes)
[14:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  UNR Status (leader: StevenK} (timelimit 15 minutes)
[14:21] <lool> StevenK: Hey
[14:21] <lool> NCommander: You might want to tell people in advance of the leader concept next time  :-)
[14:21] <lool> So UNR status is pretty good
[14:21] <lool> All tarballs uploaded
[14:21] <StevenK> Yes
[14:21]  * NCommander notes the leader concept was invited like ten minutes ago
[14:21] <lool> I think we're uptodate with seed changes too
[14:22] <StevenK> The livefses are buildable, no real OMGKITTENS bugs, etc
[14:22] <lool> What's upcoming is finishing various DX stuff as new tarball releases
[14:22]  * ogra thought he saw lool requesting the leader concept yesterday ... but i might misremember 
[14:22] <lool> I worked with dpm on the translations issue this morning and it's sorted out, but we need a new langpack upload
[14:22] <lool> ogra: Really?  Wow
[14:23] <lool> ogra: I dont recall it at all
[14:23] <lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
[14:23] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
[14:23] <lool> Pretty much empty
[14:23] <ogra> my psycic abilities again ... damend ... didnt want to reveal that here :)
[14:23] <lool> plars, GrueMaster: Some bugs in https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unr are Critical; should we track them in Ubuntu?
[14:24] <lool> plars, GrueMaster: Problem is that the ubuntu/ or ubuntu/karmic lists we use dont cover the bugs in non-Ubuntu projects such as the upstream UNR projects; it seems the intent was for us to see the Critical bugs there bug we dont track them
[14:24] <plars> lool: possibly, I'll try to carve out some more triage time today
[14:25] <lool> plars: Basically just use Also affect if the bug is confirmed and relevant for release tracking, and target to karmic
[14:25] <plars> lool: I can't target them though, need your help with that
[14:25] <lool> (So that it gets on the first list)
[14:25] <lool> plars: Ok; we should get you that ability
[14:25] <lool> plars: lets do it after the meeting
[14:25] <lool> Anything else for UNR?
[14:25] <lool> njpatel: From you perhaps?
[14:25] <lool> I think njpatel is on leave
[14:26] <njpatel> (i'm unwell, sorry)
[14:26] <njpatel> lool: nothing from UNR, just some bugs targetted for beta...all in hand
[14:26] <lool> (njpatel: Ack; didn't want to mention sick leave, so I just said leave)
[14:26] <lool> njpatel: Thanks
[14:27] <lool> StevenK: Anything else?
[14:27] <njpatel> :)
[14:27] <lool> NCommander: Let's move on
[14:28] <NCommander> [topic] Specification Review and Discussion
[14:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review and Discussion
[14:28] <lool> [link] http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
[14:28] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
[14:28]  * ogra just fixed the link on the agenda
[14:28] <lool> So the page is only updated daily nowadays
[14:28] <lool> So it's slighlty out of date
[14:28] <lool> I POSTPONED a bunch of stuff
[14:28] <lool> (BTW folks it's POSTPONED, not DEFERRED)
[14:29] <lool> I marked a bunch of specs as Implemented when most work had been done
[14:29] <lool> e.g. when only "Test foo: TODO" items remained
[14:29] <ogra> ++
[14:29] <lool> [link] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+specs?searchtext=mobile%2Bkarmic
[14:29] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+specs?searchtext=mobile%2Bkarmic
[14:30] <ogra> plars !
[14:30] <lool> plars: I didnt update your specs but the two mobile-qa-karmic-* should move to beta available pretty soon, otherwise even if we have testplans we wont have the time to fix things before release
[14:30] <lool> ogra: Well I didnt know how to update plars' specs so the report is relatively unfair to him
[14:31] <plars> hmm, ok
[14:31] <ogra> evil
[14:31] <lool> paulliu: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-unr-karmic-application-res > can we kill stuff?
[14:31] <paulliu> lool: OK.
[14:31] <paulliu> lool: But I really want to make it done.
[14:31] <paulliu> lool: That's what the OEM really wants.
[14:32] <lool> paulliu: Yes, given the number of TODOs I realized the specs were truly incomplete yet
[14:32] <paulliu> lool: ok.
[14:32] <lool> plars: Shall we ask for help from QA team or GrueMaster to get more stuff implemented?
[14:32] <plars> lool: they are next on my list once I get the one that's targetted to a6 finished up
[14:32] <NCommander> So on dove spec, ubiquity changes just went up, and flash-kernel changes just went up
[14:32]  * NCommander knocks on wood
[14:32] <lool> NCommander: "up"?
[14:32] <ogra> flash-kernel ?
[14:32] <NCommander> lool, stuck to Launchpad
[14:33] <plars> lool: which is about 75% done, should be pretty well able to knock the rest of it out today or tomorrow
[14:33]  * ogra didnt see the changes 
[14:33] <lool> plars: excellent
[14:33] <NCommander> ogra, sorry, I posted a debdiff
[14:33]  * NCommander is kinda mentally AFK
[14:33] <ogra> but we were all waiting for you for the ubiquity changes
[14:33] <ogra> it holds back an upload
[14:33] <NCommander> ogra, those went up last night and were already merged
[14:33] <lool> plars: I'm a bit busy for A6 but if you can see stuff where others in the team can help, can you ask us for helP?
[14:33] <ogra> yes, they are waiting for flash-kernel
[14:34] <ogra> i just triggered the merge before you got up
[14:34] <NCommander> ogra, I'm still not fully confident it will work, my last image build still having issues not removing ubiquity
[14:34] <NCommander> */paranoia*
[14:34] <lool> plars: I dont mind asking Marjo or OEM for some hands if you need help too
[14:34] <ogra> not removing ???
[14:34] <NCommander> ogra, livecd-rootfs issue when you add a PPA, and have tasks
[14:34] <ogra> dont add a PPA then :P
[14:34] <plars> lool: I'd have to figure out what they could do, not sure off the top of my head
[14:35] <ogra> NCommander, you shoudl really work with real images
[14:35] <NCommander> ogra, thanks, I kinda learned that a bit after the fact :-P
[14:35] <lool> plars: Ok; just use the opportunity to share the load if you see one
[14:35] <plars> lool: if they want to help with triage, I've been falling behind on that due to other deadlines
[14:35] <NCommander> ogra, I spin real images, I just want to push everything once, and we didn't have working real images until yesterday
[14:35] <lool> plars: Ah that reminds me, I think you wanted to have a meeting on the triage process with QA?
[14:35] <ogra> right, but now its blocking others
[14:35] <ogra> so make sure to get the stuff in ASAP
[14:35] <plars> lool: right, but I haven't had a chance to write up the proposal for it in workflow
[14:36] <ogra> and test with actual images
[14:36] <lool> StevenK: I wrote to slangasek to tell him about the wubi issue; I wasn't sure it was on the release team's radar
[14:36] <plars> lool: you can action me on it and we'll do it next week if that's ok
[14:36] <lool> NCommander: ^
[14:36] <lool> [action] plars to discuss bug triage workflow with QA team
[14:37] <StevenK> lool: Right
[14:37] <StevenK> lool: It most certainly affects more than UNR
[14:38] <lool> NCommander: Still with us?
[14:38] <lool> StevenK: will forward you
[14:38] <lool> should have cced you on the first place
[14:38] <lool> NCommander: bfiller missed the beginning of the meeting and had an UMR question still; mind reopening this topic if spec review is done?
[14:39] <lool> I think NCommander's connection went down or something
[14:39] <lool> Any other comments on specs?
[14:40]  * NCommander coughs
[14:40] <NCommander> sorry, laptop decided it wanted to hang
[14:40] <NCommander> Anyone got anything else on specs?
[14:40] <NCommander> [topic] UMR Status
[14:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  UMR Status
[14:40] <lool> The three A6 ones are UNR translations (covered under UNR), dove (just covered the flash-kernel issue) and the compliance one
[14:40] <NCommander> ...
[14:40]  * NCommander pokes MootBot 
[14:40] <NCommander> There
[14:40] <NCommander> wow
[14:40] <NCommander> that's lag
[14:40] <lool> NCommander: action above too
[14:41] <NCommander> I don't see an action
[14:41] <lool> bfiller: Hey
[14:41] <lool> 15:36 < lool> [action] plars to discuss bug triage workflow with QA team
[14:41] <bfiller> lool: I had a question about UMR bugs
[14:41] <NCommander> [action] plars to discuss bug triage workflow with QA team
[14:41] <MootBot> ACTION received:  plars to discuss bug triage workflow with QA team
[14:41] <lool> NCommander: Tip of the week /lastlog action
[14:41] <lool> bfiller: Go ahead
[14:41] <bfiller> lool: I've seen lots of bugs entered in UMR LP project. Wanted to know the plan (i.e. triage, assignment) for these bugs
[14:41] <NCommander> lool, I didn't get any messages
[14:41] <NCommander> lool, makes it hard to /lastlog :-P
[14:42] <bfiller> lool: OEM team may be able to help fix some as we're finishing up our other work
[14:42] <lool> NCommander: /lastlog the chan? ...
[14:42] <lool> bfiller: So I saw two types of bug reports
[14:42] <lool> bfiller: The serious type and the other type
[14:42] <lool> Tom's bugs being of the former category  :-)
[14:43] <lool> bfiller: Basically we have a little of StevenK's time, a little of time, and mainly a lot of paulliu's time to do everything Moblin relateed in distro
[14:43] <bfiller> lool: who is taking the lead of triaging the bugs?
[14:43] <lool> bfiller: but I figured that as soon as OEM would be rebasing on karmic we'd be able to all work on the same pool of bugs
[14:43] <bfiller> lool: ok
[14:43] <bfiller> makes sense
[14:43] <lool> bfiller: Ah sorry, we also have QA folks of course
[14:44] <lool> plars, GrueMaster: sorry   O:-)
[14:44] <bfiller> lool: are you ok with me making assignments and severity or is that something your team will do?
[14:44] <lool> bfiller: So I think we should triage the incoming bug flow on moblin-remix as much as possible as part of ongoing QA triages and we should review bug status weekly here
[14:44] <plars_> lool: I missed something I guess? lagged out since 8:40
[14:45] <lool> plars_: It's ok, you missed the bad part
[14:45] <lool> plars_: We were discussing UMR again and bfiller was asking how we'd handle bug triage
[14:45] <plars_> ah
[14:45] <lool> bfiller: I think what works for you and plars works for me
[14:45] <bfiller> lool: how often does QA triage the bugs? there are lots of new->unassigned
[14:45] <lool> bfiller: But keep in mind the limited time availability of StevenK and myself to work on UMR
[14:46] <lool> plars: Wanna comment on this?
[14:46] <plars> bfiller: heh, by QA, do you mean me?
[14:46] <lool> bfiller: Also, I'd personally recommend we focus on PPA -> karmic before spending too much time in bug filing/triaging/fixing
[14:46] <bfiller> lool: understood, just want to get the ball rolling assigning bugs to paul and people on OEM team so they can get fixed
[14:46] <bfiller> lool: agreed, that should be step 1
[14:47] <plars> bfiller: unfortunately, I don't have tons of time to *just* do triage, so not nearly often enough, but I try to get at least some forward progress on triage done every week
[14:47] <bfiller> lool: I think we're ready to do this in the next day or 2
[14:47] <lool> bfiller: Ok we're on the same page here
[14:47] <lool> bfiller: I think we want a phone call to set all the next steps again
[14:47] <plars> bfiller: but that includes armel, unr, moblin, and other scattered things that make their way in
[14:47] <bfiller> plars, lool : are you guys ok with me doing some triage if I have time
[14:47] <lool> Since we're post the 14th
[14:47] <plars> bfiller: PLEASE!
[14:47] <bfiller> plars, lool : i am volunteering :)
[14:47] <plars> help is always welcome from whoever has time
[14:48] <lool> bfiller: plars' wife just had a heart attack hearing him shout and jump
[14:48]  * bfiller smiles
[14:48] <lool> bfiller: it's not xmas yet
[14:48] <lool> Ok; anything else on UMR from your side Bill?
[14:48]  * plars googles for "CPR"
[14:48] <NCommander> plars, call 911
[14:48] <bfiller> lool: that's it
[14:48] <lool> NCommander: AOB?
[14:48] <lool> ian_brasil: You around?
[14:49] <NCommander> [topic] AOB
[14:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[14:49]  * ogra saw him joining
[14:49] <lool> ian_brasil: Did you want to bring up any particular topic?
[14:49] <lool> ian_brasil: We discussed MID this week
[14:49] <lool> JamieBennett: You had anything for the meeting or just wanted to see how it's like?
[14:50] <JamieBennett> Just getting to know the format at the moment
[14:50] <ogra> insanity and chaos ... and a chair that says something sometimes :)
[14:50] <JamieBennett> :)
[14:50] <ogra> but works quite well
[14:50] <NCommander> Actually, I was going to say its more organized sanity that helps part the tides of the insane world of which we live
[14:50] <lool> ian_brasil: So I guess you're postponing the MID stuff for karmic+1?
[14:50] <JamieBennett> I think I have a lot to learn ;)
[14:51] <NCommander> JamieBennett, don't worry, most of us don't bite
[14:51] <NCommander> ;-)
[14:51]  * ogra bites NCommander 
[14:51] <NCommander> 704676352 bytes (705 MB) copied, 1431.84 s, 492 kB/s
[14:51] <NCommander> bah
[14:51] <ogra> it really depends whom :P
[14:51] <NCommander> USB 2.0 my ***
[14:51] <lool> Any other business for A6?
[14:51] <ogra> testing !!
[14:52] <ogra> lots and lots of
[14:52] <StevenK> Lots of testing!
[14:52] <lool> Yeah, GET TESTING FOLKS!
[14:52]  * StevenK glares at ogra 
[14:52]  * lool glares at lool
[14:52]  * ogra already did his first imx51 install today
[14:52] <ogra> you slackers !
[14:52] <lool> NCommander: Ok thanks for chairing
[14:52] <NCommander> #endchair
[14:52] <NCommander> ...
[14:52] <ogra> lol
[14:52] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[14:52] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:52.
[14:52] <StevenK> Muahaha
[14:52] <NCommander> *coughs*
[14:54] <ian_brasil> lool, no we want to try for Karmic
[14:55] <lool> ian_brasil: Ok; cool
[14:55] <lool> ian_brasil: Sorry that we didn't manage to cover this in the meeting
[14:56] <lool> ian_brasil: Feel free to add an entry for next week and we can discuss this any time on #ubuntu-mobile
[14:56] <ian_brasil> lool, we will do that
[14:57] <ian_brasil> will have a wiki page up by next week and will publish some of the work we have done
[14:58] <lool> ian_brasil: Cool
[14:58] <lool> ian_brasil: I was fearing you guys didn't have any time
[14:59] <ian_brasil> we had the final book deadline yesterday but that is all passed now..we are full time on this (after we have slept a bit ;)
[15:26] <bittin-> is the Desktop meeting in this channel 16:30 Swedish time?
[15:57] <zul> morning
[15:57] <sommer> hey all
[15:58] <nurmi_> hello
[15:58] <ivoks> o/
[15:58] <Daviey> \o
[15:58] <nijaba> \o/
[15:58] <ivoks> lol
[15:58] <nijaba> -o-
[15:58] <ttx> guys, sync your clocks :)
[15:58] <RoAkSoAx> o/
[15:58] <nurmi_> \o\
[15:58] <Sam-I-Am> clocks synced, pocket protectors installed...
[15:59] <Daviey> ntpd set to lethal.
[16:00] <ttx> Let's get started...
[16:00] <soren> o/
[16:00] <kirkland> o/
[16:00] <alexm> o/
[16:00] <ttx> #startmeeting
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is ttx.
[16:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:00] <ttx> Welcome to the server team meeting...
[16:00] <ttx> Agenda is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:01] <ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[16:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[16:01] <ttx> ACTION: smoser to tag existing UEC image bugs with "uec-images"
[16:01] <smoser> done
[16:02] <ttx> ACTION: mdz to follow up on ubuntu-bug/apport for uec images
[16:02] <ttx> mdz is not here today, let's pass, unless someone knows the status here
[16:02] <ttx> ACTION: soren to ensure that smoser can update the UEC publishing scripts
[16:02] <zul> i thought ubuntu-bug was already on the uec images?
[16:03] <smoser> smose rcan update publishing scripts
[16:03] <ttx> zul: it doesn't trigger the tag on bugfiling
[16:03] <zul> ah ok
[16:03] <smoser> ubuntu-bug/apport is present in images
[16:03] <ttx> ACTION: smoser to add MD5SUMs for UEC images
[16:03] <smoser> and i sent mail to mdz (copying soren) about how to determine if you're in ec2
[16:04] <soren> smoser: Which one is this?
[16:04] <smoser> that is done. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-on-ec2/vmbuilder/automated-ec2-builds/revision/7
[16:04] <ttx> smoser: that's the code used for releases ?
[16:04] <soren> Oui.
[16:04] <soren> Well, for builds of releases.
[16:05] <smoser> soren: Subject: Re: Notes from catch-up, 2009-09-11
[16:05] <ttx> Bien.
[16:05] <ttx> ACTION: soren to add manifest files for UEC images
[16:05] <soren> Code landed in VMBuilder. Will add to build system today.
[16:05] <ttx> ACTION: smoser to open dialog with IS about automated publishing to EC2 and agree on a plan
[16:06] <smoser> done. ticket 35660
[16:06] <ttx> smoser: do we have an agreement on the plan ?
[16:06] <smoser> hopefully we see resolution sometime next week on that, and the ability for us to publish to amazon directly from data center
[16:07] <zul> yay!
[16:07] <ttx> ok.
[16:07] <ttx> ACTION: soren to automate updating of ec2-version-query
[16:07] <zul> bye bye chichken coop
[16:07] <soren> ttx: Blocked on other stuff.
[16:07] <soren> ttx: Namely the automated publishing.
[16:08] <ttx> ok, will report to next week.
[16:08] <ttx> ACTION: soren to publish ec2-version-query in a more appropriate place
[16:08] <nijaba> on this subject, do we have a plan for a human readable page updated at the same time?
[16:08] <soren> nijaba: No plan at the moment that I know of.
[16:09] <soren> ttx: Hm... I'm not completely sure about the status of that. Let me check.
[16:09] <nijaba> soren: then we need to have one
[16:09] <soren> nijaba: Yes.
[16:09] <ttx> nijaba: noted.
[16:09] <nijaba> ttx: can we add this as an AOB subject?
[16:09] <ttx> nijaba: time permitting, yes :)
[16:09] <nijaba> thanks
[16:10] <ttx> smoser: While soren checks, could you comment on ec2 kernel status for alpha 6 ?
[16:11] <smoser> we're planning on using the kernels from bug 418130 for alpha6
[16:11] <ttx> so a karmic kernel. \o/
[16:11] <smoser> i need to publish them to eu-west-1, and soren needs to make them "current" in version-query
[16:12] <ttx> ACTION: smoser to add ec2-images tag to the relevant bugs
[16:13] <soren> Hmm... If my e-mail tagging is correct, this is blocking on me getting back to slangasek on the subject.
[16:13] <soren> I'll do that today.
[16:13] <smoser> done. and ideally ec2-images bugs and uec2-images bugs are opened with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug?field.tags=ec2-images or https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug?field.tags=uec-images urls respectively (which get the tag added)
[16:13] <ttx> ok.
[16:13] <ttx> Anyone knows if bug documentation was updated for uec-images, ec2-images tags ?
[16:13] <smoser> s/uec2/uec
[16:14] <smoser> i have not updated any documentation for this.
[16:14] <ttx> smoser: it was a mdz action, just checking on status
[16:14] <ttx> ACTION: nijaba to fold #ubuntu-ec2 and #ubuntu-cloud into #ubuntu-server
[16:14] <nijaba> Done. Reference to ubuntu-[cloud|ec2] removed from web pages and topic changed in those chans.  Let me know if I missed something.
[16:14] <ttx> ACTION: soren to triage all eucalyptus bugs, and use the 'eucalyptus' tag for bugs which should be escalated to the eucalyptus team
[16:15] <smoser> ttx, i dont know.
[16:15] <smoser> there are threads about getting ubuntu-bug to automatically tag
[16:15] <ttx> ok
[16:15] <soren> ttx: I did this last week, but I think it's ripe for another go. I got interrupted so many times, it's not even funny, so I've likely missed something, and I'm sure new stuff has been reported since then.
[16:16] <ttx> soren: we'll review the list later in the meeting anyway ;)
[16:16] <ttx> ACTION: kirkland to build a proof of concept alfresco appliance
[16:16] <kirkland> ttx: howdy
[16:16] <kirkland> ttx: this TODO has been retargeted
[16:16] <ttx> right.
[16:16] <kirkland> ttx: alfresco is not a practical target for our reference appliance
[16:17] <kirkland> ttx: couple of reasons, a) depends on sunjdk which has been removed from karmic
[16:17] <kirkland> ttx: b) very little community testing on it
[16:17] <kirkland> ttx: c) only in the canonical partner archive right now
[16:17] <kirkland> ttx: we have adjusted the target to Moodle
[16:17] <kirkland> ttx: which is in Main, all open source, has a nice first-time setup via a web front end
[16:18] <ttx> kirkland: did you build a proof of concept Moodle appliance ?
[16:18] <nijaba> kirkland: sun jdk has not YET been removed
[16:18] <nijaba> kirkland: there is an active discussion on the subject
[16:18] <kirkland> ttx: yes, let me grab the url
[16:19] <kirkland> ttx: http://rookery.canonical.com/~kirkland/ubuntu-9.04-moodle.qcow2.bz2
[16:19] <kirkland> (~260MB)
[16:19] <kirkland> ttx: so there's a couple of to-do's left on this
[16:19] <kirkland> ttx: right now, on first login, it dpkg-reconfigures moodle, forcing the user to make a few selections
[16:19] <kirkland> ttx: i'm going to just default those to sane values
[16:19] <kirkland> ttx: the hardest one, though, is FQDN
[16:20] <kirkland> ttx: for that, i've installed avahi-daemon, and set the hostname to moodle.local
[16:20] <ivoks> you should ask that one
[16:20] <ivoks> kirkland: i wouldn't suggest that
[16:20] <kirkland> ivoks: understood, this is a difficult one
[16:20] <kirkland> i could set it to the IP address
[16:20] <ivoks> many windows shops use .local
[16:20] <ivoks> and that appliance wouldn't work then
[16:21] <kirkland> in any case, this *must* be set before the user starts going through the web interface setup
[16:21] <ttx> kirkland: is the appliance in its current form directly usable in UEC ?
[16:21] <Daviey> try DHCP and notify of setting, and ask accept/change?
[16:21] <kirkland> ttx: i'm not sure, i don't have a UEC running yet :-/
[16:21] <soren> It's not.
[16:22] <soren> UEC does not run qcow2 images.
[16:22] <soren> It runs flat filesystem images.
[16:22] <kirkland> soren: oh?  should i format raw?
[16:22] <ttx> img.tar.gz is what we usually do
[16:22] <kirkland> ttx: i require some guidance on image creation
[16:22] <soren> Yes. VMBuilder should be taking care of that for you?
[16:22] <ttx> ok.
[16:22] <kirkland> soren: hmm, with what option?
[16:23] <soren> kirkland: Xen?
[16:23] <zul> why not just download the build scripts and use that?
[16:23] <ttx> kirkland: you should also sync with niemeyer on possibilities of making it show up at one point as an available appliance in Eucalyptus image store
[16:23] <kirkland> zul: what build scripts?
[16:23] <nurmi_> I can also help with Moodle image test, we have several installations of UEC running
[16:23] <kirkland> ttx: yes
[16:24] <kirkland> nurmi_: great
[16:24] <kirkland> ttx: okay, i'll redo this appliance today
[16:24] <ttx> [ACTION] kirkland to sync with soren and niemeyer on getting the Moodle appliance in a UEC and UEC-image-store-compatible format
[16:24] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to sync with soren and niemeyer on getting the Moodle appliance in a UEC and UEC-image-store-compatible format
[16:25] <kirkland> ttx: what about the FQDN question?
[16:25] <zul> kirkland: check with smoser
[16:25] <kirkland> ttx: how do we want to handle that
[16:25] <kirkland> ttx: we can either force the user to ssh to the device, set that, and do the dpkg-reconfigure questions
[16:26] <kirkland> ttx: or what?
[16:26] <ttx> soren: could that be covered with userdata ?
[16:26] <soren> We can do everything with userdata.
[16:27] <Daviey> kirkland: Is this targetted at Eucalyptus or generic?
[16:27] <soren> ...I don't think it's the right thing to use here, though..
[16:27] <soren> I think it'd be a shame to rely on the user setting specific userdata to use this.
[16:27] <smoser> "we can do everything with user data" .
[16:27] <ttx> ok, let's finish the ACTION list first and come back to that after, time permitting
[16:27] <ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to get niemeyer's proxy code packaged
[16:27] <smoser> i agree with soren, on both that we dont want to require user to feed info that way, and that we can in deed do everything that way
[16:28] <mathiaz> ttx: done - MIR is ready
[16:28] <mathiaz> ttx: it's in the MIR team camp now
[16:28] <smoser> we may be able to find an app suitable for a vm that has a web gui admin panel on first install.
[16:28] <smoser> lots of php apps have such things.
[16:28] <smoser> ie, when you install gallery, you then go to some url and start configuring it.
[16:29] <ttx> ACTION: zul to ensure rabbitmq-server gets reviewed and promoted
[16:29] <zul> yeah im blocked on the MIR team again ill bug kees about it again today
[16:29] <ttx> yes.
[16:30] <ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to upload openldap 2.4.18
[16:30] <mathiaz> ttx: done
[16:30] <soren> Whee!
[16:30] <ttx> ACTION: kirkland to speak with marjo about how to get qemu-kvm tested prior to release (and more generally server applications like it)
[16:31] <kirkland> ttx: yes, did that
[16:31] <kirkland> ttx: we're going to have a bug day, in 2 weeks
[16:31] <ttx> great !
[16:31] <kirkland> ttx: i'm now working on a wiki page describing how to test, and what
[16:31] <kirkland> ttx: if there's anyone in the community willing/able to help with that plan, i'm open ;-)
[16:31] <ttx> ok.
[16:31] <ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to get a server dev team set up in LP and work with cjwatson to get it set up for archive reorg
[16:32] <kirkland> ttx: as this is toward the bottom of my list
[16:32] <cjwatson> s/cjwatson/TB/ please
[16:32] <cjwatson> (which includes me, but ...)
[16:32] <mathiaz> ttx: turns out we don't have use for an ubuntu-server-dev team right now
[16:33] <mathiaz> cjwatson: IIUC ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-motu will not get away?
[16:33] <mathiaz> ttx: I'll have to look at the package set again though.
[16:33] <ttx> mathiaz: ok.
[16:33] <ttx> ACTION: ttx to update server team Roadmap to reflect current projects
[16:33] <ttx> done, we'll see that in a minute
[16:34] <ttx> ACTION: Daviey to call for testing of Asterisk 1.6
[16:34] <cjwatson> mathiaz: eventually, they will
[16:34] <cjwatson> well, motu will
[16:34] <Daviey> ttx: http://blog.daviey.com/ubuntu/call-for-testing-asterisk-1-6.html and hit ubuntu-server ML lst
[16:34] <cjwatson> though this is not especially short-term
[16:34] <Daviey> list*
[16:34] <mathiaz> cjwatson: ok.
[16:35] <ttx> Daviey: ok, feel free to update the (new) Roadmap page to reflect the CFT-in-progress
[16:35] <Daviey> ttx: will do.
[16:35] <ttx> there is a tester section in there
[16:35] <ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to produce a list of accepted bugs for packages related to the ubuntu-server team.
[16:35] <Daviey> ttx: one other thing, not sure how to handle beta4 status
[16:35] <ttx> beta4 ?
[16:35] <mathiaz> ttx: done
[16:35] <Daviey> current 1.6 in karmic is stil beta4
[16:36] <Daviey> rc1 is out, but would it be better to wait for release?
[16:36] <Daviey> or stick with a beta for the whole cycle (sounds like a maintainaince un)
[16:36] <Daviey> fun*
[16:36] <ttx> release early, release often
[16:36] <mathiaz> Daviey: is rc1 a bug fix only?
[16:37] <Daviey> ttx: okay, i'll get rc1 done.  mathiaz yes, adds no feature afaik
[16:37] <ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to produce a list of accepted bugs for packages related to the ubuntu-server team.
[16:37] <mathiaz> Daviey: so it can still go in karmic - if packages are ready in time
[16:37] <mathiaz> ttx: done
[16:37] <zul> mathiaz: do you need help with that ACTION?
[16:38] <mathiaz> zul: I don't think so - it's done.
[16:38] <ttx> ok... let's move on to the next topic then
[16:38] <zul> k
[16:38] <ttx> [TOPIC] Alpha6 remaining actions
[16:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha6 remaining actions
[16:38] <ttx> Just a quick roundtable about things that need to be covered before alpha6 release
[16:38] <ttx> We don't have bugs left targeted for that milestone...
[16:38] <ttx> Should we ?
[16:39] <Sam-I-Am> i'm curious about that sudo/su glibc bug
[16:39] <ivoks> rhcs sync maybe?
[16:39] <ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone=12714
[16:39] <mathiaz> ttx: bug 413789
[16:39] <mathiaz> ttx: apparently I forgot to target it correclty - there isn't any karmic task
[16:40] <ttx> mathiaz: you plan to fix it in time for alpha6 ?
[16:40] <mathiaz> ttx: well - not me.
[16:40] <Sam-I-Am> bug 423252
[16:40] <mathiaz> ttx: I'm stuck - waiting for mvo to have a look at it.
[16:40] <ttx> ah, ok
[16:40] <mathiaz> ttx: I'll probably retarget that for beta then
[16:41] <ttx> mathiaz: see with mvo, but that may be preferable
[16:41] <ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to target bug 413789 to a appropriate milestone
[16:41] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to target bug 413789 to a appropriate milestone
[16:43] <ttx> About bug 423252, I'll bring it up at next release meeting. It's a foundations thing.
[16:43] <Sam-I-Am> ttx: ok
[16:44] <ttx> we have some alpha6-related release process improvements as well
[16:44] <ttx> * Add signed MD5SUMS
[16:44] <ttx> smoser, soren: slangasek is apparently blocked on nectarine access for that
[16:45] <soren> He just got that earlier today.
[16:45] <soren> Allegedly.
[16:45]  * soren checks
[16:45] <slangasek> oh?
[16:45] <soren> Yes.
[16:45] <soren> Try it.
[16:45] <ttx> * Add manifest file for each image
[16:45] <soren> (bypassing the usual ssh proxy thing)
[16:45] <ttx> soren: that is covered, right
[16:46] <slangasek> ah, no proxy
[16:46]  * slangasek tweaks
[16:46] <soren> ttx: 87%, yes.
[16:46] <ttx> * Automate publishing of AMIs to EC2
[16:46] <soren> ttx: The hard part is done :)
[16:46] <ttx> smoser: that was deferred, methink
[16:46] <slangasek> (strange, why is /that/ one outside the proxy?)
[16:46] <smoser> deferred, yes.
[16:46] <ttx> * Automate updating ec2-version-query
[16:47] <ttx> soren: blocked on automatic publication
[16:47] <ttx> ?
[16:47] <soren> Well, yes.
[16:47] <soren> and decision on final location.
[16:48] <ttx> * Publish ec2-version-query in a more appropriate place
[16:48] <ttx> soren: this is blocked on you syncing with slangasek ?
[16:48] <soren> ttx: Yes. I'm writing the e-mail right now.
[16:48] <ttx> * Ensure inclusion of relevant news in release notes
[16:49] <ttx> erichammond: around ?
[16:49] <erichammond> yes
[16:49] <ttx> yay ;)
[16:49] <erichammond> I believe this is waiting on a task from soren related to manifests
[16:50] <ttx> soren: ^?
[16:50] <erichammond> probably the above mentioned one
[16:50] <soren> ttx: We've been through this.
[16:50] <soren> ttx: Twice :)
[16:50]  * ttx is buried under information
[16:50] <ttx> ok then
[16:50]  * soren tosses ttx a shovel
[16:51] <ttx> [TOPIC] Review progress made on the Roadmap
[16:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review progress made on the Roadmap
[16:51] <ttx> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:51] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:51] <ivoks> didn't know cluster is lower than mail :)
[16:52]  * mvo apologizes to mathiaz for not looking at the upgrade bug yet
[16:52] <ttx> ivoks: It's all Low :P
[16:52] <ttx> smoser: Let's talk about UEC images bugs
[16:52] <ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=uec-images
[16:52] <mathiaz> mvo: I've retargeted the bug for 9.10-beta.
[16:53] <ivoks> is it too late to work on mail stack?
[16:53] <smoser> i've put together http://paste.ubuntu.com/271503/
[16:53] <smoser> which covers all the opne uec and ec2 bugs. do we want to paste that here?
[16:54] <smoser> theres not much uec specific, other than bug 429106 which i opened but have no progress on
[16:54] <ttx> smoser: will 420581 be fixed in time ?
[16:54] <mathiaz> ivoks: we're passed FF
[16:54] <ttx> it's apparently targeted for alpha6
[16:54] <ivoks> mathiaz: yep, sorry
[16:55] <mathiaz> ivoks: it can be deferred for the next release cycle though.
[16:55] <smoser> ttx, i just need soren to pull, review it, sponsor it, and then update his vmbuilder on nectarine
[16:55] <soren> smoser: Yes. I will also do this today.
[16:55] <smoser> he may object to it, but i think the patch is good.
[16:55] <ivoks> mathiaz: well, there's nothing else we can do; i'll just fix some bugs in current stack
[16:56] <smoser> and then i may have more of the same requests for soren tomorrow
[16:56] <mathiaz> ivoks: sounds like a good plan to me - fixing bugs!
[16:56] <ivoks> :)
[16:56] <ttx> ok, anyone else has remarks on the buglist or the status pastebin from smoser ?
[16:57] <ttx> EC2 AMIs bugs are at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images for reference
[16:57] <smoser> other things of note
[16:57] <ttx> smoser: shouldn't 418130 get targeted for alpha6 ?
[16:57] <smoser> Last week, I released ami-a40fefcd and ami-3fb25256 to ubuntu-ec2, ubuntu-cloud last week, this is the first image we've published with karmic kernel by default.  We've got fairly good feedback, the only real issue raised is on bug 428692
[16:57] <smoser> Other news is that jono, jorge, and ara have started helping us get a test plan together.  They're concentrating on establishing a way for the community to help us test ec2 images.
[16:58] <smoser> ttx, ok. i'll target it there.
[16:58] <zul> smoser: heh gee that is all the issues they had with the karmic kernel?
[16:59] <erichammond> smoser: You said that the next public AMI released would be for Alpha 6.  Are you registering private AMIs for testing purposes?
[16:59] <smoser> i've not seen any issues with it other than the loop driver not being present (easily worked around)
[17:00] <smoser> erichammond, the most recent one i've put up is the one i labelled alpha5.1. the only change so far since then is bug 427288
[17:00] <smoser> which i've not gotten into the images yet
[17:01] <erichammond> smoser: Are the kernel modules and a "loop" fix going into Alpha 6?
[17:01] <smoser> probably not a loop fix, but maybe a kernel modules
[17:02] <smoser> thats a weak maybe
[17:02] <ttx> Anything else on the UEC/EC2 images front, before we move to Eucalyptus ?
[17:02] <smoser> but it is fairly easily worked around with dpkg from the ppa
[17:02] <smoser> erichammond, but, for beta i hope both.
[17:02] <ttx> [TOPIC] Packaging and integration of Eucalyptus 1.6
[17:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging and integration of Eucalyptus 1.6
[17:03] <ttx> Eucalyptus integration bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=eucalyptus
[17:03] <ttx> soren already said it needs some refresh
[17:04] <ttx> comments, anyone ?
[17:06] <ttx> OK... since we are already overflowing I'll switch to...
[17:06] <ttx> [TOPIC] Virtual appliance
[17:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Virtual appliance
[17:06] <ttx> niemeyer is not around, but his part is blocked on the image-store-proxy MIR
[17:06] <ttx> kirkland already mentioned the change in reference appliance
[17:07] <kirkland> ttx: ack
[17:07] <ttx> The best way to push FQDN configuration shoudl probably be discussed off-meeting
[17:07] <kirkland> ttx: that's fine
[17:07] <kirkland> ttx: i'm going to talk to smoser later today and get some assistance making/testing the image in UEC
[17:07] <kirkland> ttx: and ping nurmi_ about it too
[17:07] <ttx> kirkland: ok.
[17:07] <kirkland> ttx: we can discuss FQDN in #ubuntu-server
[17:08] <ttx> [TOPIC] Other specs from the Roadmap
[17:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other specs from the Roadmap
[17:08] <zul_> sorry X decided to tak a nose dive
[17:08] <kirkland> ttx: fwiw, moodle seemed to work well as an appliance, with web setup and all
[17:08] <ttx> Anyone has progress to report on other specs from the roadmap ?
[17:08] <ivoks> yes
[17:08] <ivoks> cluster stack
[17:08] <ivoks> everything for pacemaker is done and in karmic, ready for shipping
[17:09] <ttx> ivoks: ok
[17:09] <ivoks> rhcs just needs one more sync and that would be finished too
[17:09] <ttx> it's a bugfix sync ?
[17:09] <ivoks> since it's in main, it needs main sponsors to look at it
[17:09] <ivoks> it's a new version
[17:10] <ivoks> but it also has some fixes
[17:10] <mathiaz> ivoks: new features?
[17:10] <ivoks> bug 429834
[17:10] <ivoks> bugfix version
[17:10] <mathiaz> ivoks: if it's a bugfix only, it doesn't need a FFexception
[17:10] <ivoks> well
[17:10] <ttx> I'm not sure if we do syncs from PPAs though
[17:10] <ivoks> current redhat-cluster in karmic is very old
[17:10] <ivoks> so, this one would be a major change
[17:11] <ivoks> but we couldn't sync it before, cause there weren't all needed pieces
[17:11] <ivoks> corosync and openais
[17:11] <ttx> ivoks: so you need a FFe first.
[17:12] <ivoks> most probably
[17:12] <ttx> [ACTION] ivoks to file FFe for the redhat-cluster update
[17:12] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to file FFe for the redhat-cluster update
[17:12] <ttx> mathiaz: should we consider directory-enabled-user-login completed, or is there more work to do ?
[17:12] <ivoks> doesn't the bug qualify as ffe?
[17:12] <mathiaz> ttx: testing is the next step
[17:13] <mathiaz> ttx: no more developement is required though
[17:13] <mathiaz> ivoks: if there are new features in there, then it requires a FFe
[17:13] <ttx> ivoks: it needs more precision on the scope of the change, and subscribe ubuntu-release rather than sponsors
[17:13] <ivoks> ok
[17:14] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - reading through the changelog it seems that a FFe is required
[17:14] <ttx> mathiaz: ok, I'll leave it open then
[17:14] <ttx> any other spec progress to mention ?
[17:14] <mathiaz> ivoks: what needs to be documented is which new features, and what are the risk of updating the stack in karmic now
[17:14] <ivoks> mathiaz: well, current rhcs doesn't work at all :)
[17:15] <mathiaz> ivoks: it's *totally* broken?
[17:15] <ivoks> mathiaz: yes
[17:15] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - so mention this in the FFe request as well
[17:15] <ivoks> of course
[17:15] <ttx> [TOPIC] Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs
[17:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs
[17:15] <ttx> Bug list @ http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
[17:16] <DKcross> have meet now'
[17:16] <DKcross> ?
[17:16] <ttx> DKcross: which meeting ?
[17:16] <DKcross> any know when is the meet for membership?
[17:17] <ttx> no, but we definitely overflow :)
[17:17] <DKcross> ttx, i don't know
[17:17] <ttx> no bug assigned directly to canonical-server-team... so no assignement necessary there
[17:17] <ttx> anyone want to mention being blocked on one of "his" bugs ? Or wanting one of them to be reassigend ?
[17:18] <mathiaz> DKcross: which membership board is supposed to be running now?
[17:18] <ttx> Personally I wanted to discuss bug 425928
[17:18] <zul> ttx: i just un-assigned myself  the iptables one
[17:19] <ttx> Is the proposed solution at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/+bug/425928/comments/1 satisfactory for everyone ?
[17:19] <zul> ack
[17:19] <ttx> zul: ok
[17:19]  * soren looks
[17:20] <ttx> nurmi_ is no longer with us, unfortunately
[17:20]  * soren agress
[17:20] <DKcross> mathiaz, no, i dont know, I'm question when is
[17:20] <ttx> OK, I'll do that then
[17:20] <ttx> anything else on that list someone wants to bring up before we move on to the next item in that crowded agenda ?
[17:21] <mathiaz> DKcross: usually the wiki page for the membership board outlines when the next meeting takes place
[17:21] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review
[17:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review
[17:21] <ttx> mathiaz: I'll let you drive this one :)
[17:21] <DKcross> mathiaz,  i know but no have new date
[17:21] <mathiaz> http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/buglists/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[17:21] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/buglists/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[17:21] <DKcross> thanks i will wait
[17:21] <mathiaz> ^^ any bugs worth considering for a SRU on the list above^^?
[17:21] <zul> i have a list as well: http://pastebin.com/m78eb72be
[17:22] <zul> mathiaz: ^^^
[17:22] <nealmcb> the next meeting in here is desktop team in 10 minutes, according to http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
[17:22] <mathiaz> nealmcb: the desktop team is in ubuntu-desktop AFAICT
[17:23] <ttx> it would still be good to be done in 10 minutes though :)
[17:23] <nealmcb> mathiaz: ahh - good point
[17:23] <nealmcb> ttx: no - go for a record!!
[17:24] <mathiaz> zul: seems like a good list of bugs - nominate and accept them
[17:24] <zul> mathiaz: the ones on my list above are realllly easy to fix and they have all been fixed in karmic
[17:24] <zul> mathiaz:k
[17:24] <mathiaz> anything else on the fixedbugs list from last week?
[17:24] <ttx> nijaba: about a human-readable ec2-version-query, I suggest you bring it up to one of the MLs, at worse put in on the agenda for next week meeting.
[17:24] <ttx> mathiaz: nope
[17:25] <zul> nope
[17:25] <nijaba> ttx: ok, will do
[17:25] <mathiaz> ok - let's move on then
[17:26] <mathiaz> http://us-dappernominated.notlong.com/
[17:26] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-dappernominated.notlong.com/
[17:26] <mathiaz> iz empty
[17:26] <mathiaz> http://us-hardynominated.notlong.com/
[17:26] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-hardynominated.notlong.com/
[17:26] <ttx> 309632: -1, implies some behavior change
[17:26] <ttx> 406171: +1
[17:27] <mathiaz> ttx: declined and approved
[17:27] <mathiaz> http://us-intrepidnominated.notlong.com/
[17:27] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-intrepidnominated.notlong.com/
[17:27] <mathiaz> iz empty
[17:27] <mathiaz> http://us-jauntynominated.notlong.com/
[17:27] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-jauntynominated.notlong.com/
[17:28] <mathiaz> empty as well
[17:28] <ttx> yay
[17:28] <zul> yay
[17:28] <mathiaz> so next in line
[17:28] <mathiaz> http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/buglists/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[17:28] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/buglists/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[17:28] <mathiaz> ^^ this is the list of accepted bugs that have an assigne
[17:28] <mathiaz> assignee
[17:28] <mathiaz> for packages related to the ubuntu-server team
[17:28] <mathiaz> kirkland: what's the status on the kvm bugs?
[17:29]  * kirkland looks
[17:29] <kirkland> mathiaz: i had a heavy-duty bug triage day on friday
[17:29] <mathiaz> and we need to assign http://launchpad.net/bugs/200614
[17:29] <kirkland> mathiaz: went through 100+ kvm and qemu bugs
[17:30] <mathiaz> kirkland: right - I was specifically refering to the kvm bugs listed above
[17:30] <mathiaz> kirkland: http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/buglists/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[17:30] <mathiaz> kirkland: what's the state of the sru process?
[17:30] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'm not actively working any of these
[17:30] <mathiaz> zul: same for the vblades?
[17:31] <kirkland> mathiaz: the only thing on my sru radar is a possible qcow2 curruption on jaunty
[17:31] <mathiaz> kirkland: ok - so you may wanna unassigned yourself then
[17:31] <kirkland> mathiaz: i am to prepare a ppa package for the user reporting the issue, to see if it solves his problem
[17:31] <zul> mathiaz: its been uploaded looking for testers
[17:31] <kirkland> mathiaz: will do
[17:31] <mathiaz> and bug 127836
[17:31] <mathiaz> Nafallo: ^^?
[17:31] <mathiaz> Nafallo: are you still working on this one?
[17:32] <mathiaz> zul: could you work on bug 200614?
[17:32] <mathiaz> soren: bug 251480?
[17:32] <zul> mathiaz: yeah ill but it in my list for net-snmp
[17:33] <mathiaz> and last list to review: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+requestedreviews
[17:33] <mathiaz> which of course is empty
[17:33] <mathiaz> as noone is using pkg branches for SRU work for now
[17:33] <soren> mathiaz: Yeah, uh...
[17:34] <mathiaz> soren: still planning on fixing it?
[17:34] <soren> I don't actually.
[17:34]  * soren unassigns
[17:35] <mathiaz> ok - that's all for now
[17:35] <mathiaz> ttx: ^^ for the sru review
[17:35] <mathiaz> The first part is under control now - we should focus on using pkg branches for preparing SRU and review them
[17:36] <ttx> ok
[17:36] <ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[17:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[17:37] <ttx> no time for that, I guess
[17:37] <ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[17:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[17:38] <ttx> next week, same place, same time, hopefully shorter ?
[17:38] <soren> Much.
[17:38] <nealmcb> :)
[17:38] <ivoks> we could even skip it, since we worked so hard today :D
[17:38] <mathiaz> +1
[17:38] <soren> +100
[17:38] <ttx> the action review just ate the first 45 minutes, sorry about that
[17:39] <nealmcb> nijaba: where is the sun jdk / karmic conversation going on?
[17:39]  * soren needs to leave
[17:39] <ttx> nealmcb: I think it's a TB matter
[17:39] <soren> see you guys later.
[17:39] <nealmcb> ttx: thx
[17:39] <kirkland> o/
[17:39] <erichammond> Thanks, all.
[17:40] <nurmi> thanks all
[17:40] <ttx> #endmeeting
[17:40] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:40.
[17:40] <ivoks> have a nice day/evening!
[17:40] <alexm> thanks all
[17:43] <nijaba> nealmcb: an email thread so far, we are preparing an official email for the TB on reasons why this decision should be delayed
[17:44] <nealmcb> nijaba: thanks.  I also found the discussions on the server blogs - http://www.outflux.net/blog/archives/2009/09/12/uninstall-sun-java6/
[17:44] <nealmcb> I need to catch up!
[18:00] <ogasawara> Kernel Dudes! Roll call.
[18:00]  * apw zones in
[18:00]  * amitk waves
[18:00]  * smb waves
[18:00]  * rtg sluches in
[18:00]  * manjo here
[18:00]  * pgraner waves
[18:00]  * lieb here
[18:00]  * cking zones in too
[18:01] <ogasawara> Aight, lets start this.
[18:01] <ogasawara> #startmeeting
[18:01] <ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is ogasawara.
[18:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:01] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Open Action Items
[18:01] <ogasawara> (apw) check up on drbd status in dkms package and kernel
[18:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items
[18:01] <apw> bah still nothing on that one
[18:01] <rtg> slacker
[18:01]  * jjohansen1 waves
[18:01]  * apw self flagilates
[18:02] <ogasawara> apw: I'll just push it to next week then
[18:02] <ogasawara> (jjohansen) set up daily irc meeting (#ubuntu-kernel) to cover ubuntu on EC2 progress
[18:02] <ogasawara> jjohansen1: seems to be happening right?
[18:02] <rtg> ogasawara, they are in progress
[18:03] <ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[18:03] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
[18:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
[18:03] <ogasawara> * Release Meeting Bugs (8 bugs):
[18:03] <ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[18:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[18:03] <ogasawara> * RC Milestoned Bugs Alpha 6 (8 kernel bugs):
[18:03] <ogasawara> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12714
[18:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12714
[18:03] <ogasawara> * Release Targeted Bugs (12 bugs):
[18:03] <ogasawara> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
[18:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
[18:04] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
[18:04] <ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-5
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
[18:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-5
[18:04] <ogasawara> Moving on to blueprints . . .
[18:04] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
[18:04] <ogasawara> The ability to link bug reports to a full hw profile is possible so now we're discussing how to link to a specific device.
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
[18:04]  * smb eyes blurr
[18:04] <ogasawara> heh
[18:05] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms (apw)
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms (apw)
[18:05] <apw> we are having some instability on intel at the moment which we are hoping we have just fixed
[18:05] <rtg> apw, mesa foobar is KMS related?
[18:05] <apw> unsure, mesa is aware of kms
[18:06] <apw> nothing else interesting going on at the moment
[18:06] <pgraner> apw: was this due to Intel dropping the mesa reqmt to us late in the cycle?
[18:06] <apw> i think its mostly cause its a big change kms et al coming in, and dri2
[18:06] <apw> so mesa is playing catchup at a rate of knots
[18:06] <pgraner> apw: they mandated a bump in mesa to deal with the ironlake graphics?
[18:07] <apw> ahhh ... then perhaps so
[18:07] <rtg> thats one of those silly userspace packages
[18:07] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
[18:07] <rtg> its in a PPA pending some testing. a topic for next week at the sprint
[18:08] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
[18:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
[18:08] <smb> no change since last week but mainly one remove and maybe an update pending
[18:09] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
[18:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
[18:09] <manjo> no change since last weel
[18:09] <pgraner> How are we doing on suspend/resume, mdz is having issues and I've seen others
[18:09] <apw> pgraner, ok there are two sources of suspend/resume failures on intel
[18:09] <rtg> pgraner, some were i915 related that we think are fixed
[18:09] <pgraner> I can't seem to find upstream references
[18:09] <apw> one we patched and uploaded in .32, and the other is this mesa thing
[18:10] <manjo> pgraner, will test .32 on xps 1330 today
[18:10] <apw> i have a 20 s/r streak going here
[18:10] <pgraner> apw: ok we need to watch that close with A6 being this week
[18:10] <apw> yep, we have pushed the mesa update through the freeze, with slangasek's blessing
[18:10] <pgraner> I'm done...over
[18:10] <apw> i believe all the major intel issues for s/r are covered at that point
[18:11] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen1)
[18:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen1)
[18:11] <slangasek> apw: and that only requires an update to mesa, right, not the kernel? :)
[18:11] <jjohansen1> AppArmor has some bugs that I am currently working on
[18:11] <apw> right only mesa
[18:11] <jjohansen1> Bug 429872 Bug 429872 Bug 415632 Bug 427948
[18:12] <jjohansen1> I think I am testing fixes for 2 of them
[18:12] <jjohansen1> AppArmor LSM submission is going out today
[18:12] <apw> does that mean upstream submission?
[18:13] <jjohansen1> apw: yeah it start of upstream submissions
[18:13] <apw> awsome
[18:13] <ogasawara> jjohansen1: anything else?
[18:13] <jjohansen1> no
[18:13] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk, bjf)
[18:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk, bjf)
[18:13] <ogasawara> bjf is away but notes "Nothing significantly new on the Marvell dove front. Am waiting
[18:13] <ogasawara> for a live image (and helping as much as I can)."
[18:14] <amitk> upload for the imx51 kernel was postponed today
[18:14] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Karmic Kernel Status (jjohansen1)
[18:14] <pgraner> amitk: ?
[18:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Karmic Kernel Status (jjohansen1)
[18:14] <amitk> mobile team has live images barely working and 150 new patches might've caused a disturbance in the force
[18:14] <pgraner> amitk: ok
[18:14] <jjohansen1> EC2 kernel is looking pretty good
[18:14] <jjohansen1> rtg packaged up EC2 kernel topic branch and sent in MIR
[18:15] <amitk> so it will be uploaded post thaw
[18:15] <jjohansen1> bug 418130 is fixed for alpha 6
[18:15] <jjohansen1> For Bug 427288 - went with patch to glibc instead of kernel patch
[18:15] <rtg> ogasawara, linux-ec2 is accepted and in the archive
[18:15] <jjohansen1> rtg is goint to create a meta package for linux-ec2
[18:15] <jjohansen1> and rtg has also updated the ec2 kernel configs to more closely match virtual, and I am currently packaging up a test kernel
[18:16] <jjohansen1> I think that is it
[18:16] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
[18:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
[18:16] <rtg> apw, looks ok?
[18:17] <apw> with the hangs under control, and the fsck thing in
[18:17] <apw> i think we are pretty good on the platforms i am testing right now
[18:17] <rtg> yeah, uploaded -10.33 this morning
[18:17] <apw> we need to focus on the regressions still for the forseeable
[18:18] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
[18:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
[18:18] <smb> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.79 (security)
[18:18] <smb> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.60 (updates)
[18:18] <smb>             - New proposed upload scheduled for tomorrow
[18:18] <smb>             LUM-2.6.24-24.41 (proposed, uploaded today)
[18:18] <smb>             - A small glitch in the makefiles caused a new modules not to be
[18:18] <smb>               build.
[18:18] <smb> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.41 (updates)
[18:18] <smb> * Jaunty    2.6.28-15.49 (security)
[18:18] <smb>             2.6.28-15.52 (proposed)[6] (10/21 verifications)
[18:18] <smb> If there are no questions I am done
[18:19] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: Netbook (sconklin, apw)
[18:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Netbook (sconklin, apw)
[18:19] <apw> i think we agreed to drop this one
[18:19] <ogasawara> my bad, moving on then
[18:19] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
[18:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
[18:19] <sconklin> I released and uploaded kernel, lum, and lbm last friday for the netbook-lpia branch
[18:19] <ogasawara> I'm still getting caught up on the regressions from last week, but currently it looks like 7 more regression-potential bugs have come in.
[18:20] <ogasawara> we'll be sure to follow up on them in the next bug call
[18:20] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
[18:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
[18:20] <ogasawara> Stats from today's bug day can be seen at http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20090915.html
[18:20] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions
[18:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions
[18:20] <ogasawara> Anyone have anything?
[18:21] <ogasawara> I'll take that silence as a no
[18:21] <ogasawara> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair

[18:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair
[18:21] <rtg> I motion to cancel next week
[18:22] <sconklin> seconded
[18:22] <smb> +1
[18:22] <cking> cancel the meeting, not the week
[18:22] <rtg> (as we are all on the road)
[18:22] <rtg> cking, smart ass
[18:22] <cking> :-;
[18:22] <ogasawara> cool, I'll send a note we'll cancel next weeks meeting
[18:22] <smb> cking, Careful rtg is in the right mood now
[18:22] <apw> ogasawara, thanks ... :)
[18:23] <smb> ogasawara, ta
[18:23] <ogasawara> thanks guys, see ya'll next week!
[18:23] <amitk> kthxbye
[18:23] <cking> ta
[18:23] <ogasawara> #endmeeting
[18:23] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:23.
[18:23] <lieb> bye
[20:03] <Grantbow> LoCo Council meeting now?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
[20:04] <seidos> I'm listening
[20:05] <nhaines> Good to see you, troyready.  :)
[20:06] <troyready> nhaines: much appreciated :) Good to be on IRC.
[20:17] <estiedi> Hi, I have a question.
[20:17] <DWonderly> ?
[20:17] <nhaines> estiedi: best to just ask it.  If anyone can answer, we will.
[20:18] <estiedi> OK, this is my first time meeting, so my apologies if I'm not aware of some protocol.
[20:18] <estiedi> anyway, I posted earlier this week in the mailing list with asking if we could get the Luxemburg LoCo Team running again?
[20:19] <estiedi> It seems that the local contact on the website died 2 years ago in a motorcycle accident
[20:21] <Flannel> estiedi: The meeting here hasn't started yet actually, but #ubuntu-locoteams should be able to help you out
[20:22] <estiedi> Ok, thanks.
[20:22] <Grantbow> estiedi: I'm sorry to hear about that! I think we are waiting for the Council members to join the channel.
[20:37] <Grantbow> LoCo Council meeting now? I think it should have started over 30 minutes ago. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
[20:38] <nhaines> Grantbow: the members of the LoCo Council have already been pinged.
[21:00] <popey> o/
[21:00] <popey> Apologies for my absense, had to go to a meeting at my daughters school, just got in
[21:00] <Grantbow> \o/
[21:00] <nhaines> popey: :D
[21:00] <nhaines> popey: You're the first one here.
[21:01] <popey> :(
[21:01] <popey> I'll mail the LoCo council and see if we can reschedule for the same time next tuesday. Will update the wiki page to reflect it
[21:01] <nhaines> popey: it's okay, it's a good start.
[21:01] <popey> My apologies to those who were here for the meeting. I didnt realise nobody would be availabale
[21:01] <nhaines> Hm.
[21:01] <nhaines> Out of curiousity, is there a quorum?
[21:02] <popey> with one person?
[21:02] <Flannel> nhaines: a quorum of one?
[21:02] <nhaines> Haha, I didn't mean let's go.  :)
[21:02] <popey> :)
[21:02] <popey> not sure what you meant, sorry :)
[21:02] <nhaines> I just wasn't sure if 2 or 3 were sufficent or if all four members have to be present.  :)
[21:02] <popey> my brain is waterlogged having just got in from the rain
[21:02] <Flannel> popey: I wonder if nhaines wasn't sure what he meant
[21:02] <popey> 2 or 3 is fine
[21:02] <popey> we dont need to all be here
[21:03] <popey> I can see from the loco council mailing list that just after I said I wouldn't be here, the other members said they were busy too
[21:03] <Grantbow> popey: thanks for acknowledging the meeting!
[21:03] <popey> have mailed the list
[21:03] <popey> please subscribe to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda to know when the new meeting will be
[21:04] <Flannel> popey: Alright, sounds good, thanks.
[21:04] <popey> will try and get it sorted in the next 24 hours
[21:04] <popey> once again, very sorry :(
[21:04] <DWonderly> Thanks popey
[21:05] <nhaines> popey: it'll get all sorted out.  :)
[21:06] <Grantbow> popey: thanks
[21:06]  * popey goes to make a late tea
[21:08] <Yasumoto_> popey: no worries, thanks dude
[21:12] <czajkowski> Aloha
[21:16] <nhaines> czajkowski: aloha.  :)
[21:17] <czajkowski> nhaines: :)