[02:28] <eggonlea_> well, I've thought Ubuntu MID would continue with Mer as upstream.
[02:28] <eggonlea_> 17:34 < lool> But MID is obsolete
[02:29] <eggonlea_> ARM, as well as LPIA
[08:37] <XPPRESP3> hello all 
[08:38] <XPPRESP3> i want to build a device with some applications and use ubuntu 8.01
[08:38] <XPPRESP3> how do i get started with the user interface customization ?
[08:38] <XPPRESP3> do i need to read much about window managers and stuff ?
[08:39] <XPPRESP3> any pointers would be helpful for getting started
[08:43] <lool> XPPRESP3: Ubuntu 8.01?
[08:44] <lool> XPPRESP3: It's a bit too vague to help you specifically; what environment do you target what type of image and device etc.
[08:45] <XPPRESP3> ok, i have Intel Atom processor, and GMA 500 for the graphics 
[08:45] <XPPRESP3> it is a touchscreen device
[08:45] <XPPRESP3> what i'am trying to ask is more of a getting started question 
[08:46] <lool> XPPRESP3: Well you need a precise goal/vision; there are so many ways you can change Ubuntu that it's hard to give you general advice
[08:47] <lool> Do you want to change the app selection?  The theming?  The software stack entirely?
[08:47] <XPPRESP3> all the apps iam writing are totally new 
[08:47] <XPPRESP3> so i wont need anything from ubuntu
[08:47] <XPPRESP3> i mean the applications 
[08:48] <lool> Ok why do you need Ubuntu for?
[08:48] <lool> s/why/what
[08:49] <XPPRESP3> i heard that ubuntu has a project for this stuff,  i mean with clutter and has a very stable multimedia framework 
[08:49] <XPPRESP3> so i thouhgt i should try
[08:49] <XPPRESP3> i have not finalised what to use yet
[08:55] <lool> XPPRESP3: Ok perhaps you should start by writing your apps or writing down your design goals, then split the integration work into tasks and we can perhaps help you
[08:57] <davmor2> XPPRESP3: is this a scratch your own itch thing or a uni project type thing?
[08:57] <XPPRESP3> the former :-)
[08:58] <XPPRESP3> how do i handle communication between the apps, as to who is in focus, is that the job of the window manager , i need some theroetical knowledge on this one, iam not sure where to find 
[08:59] <XPPRESP3> my question basically is, let us say i have 5 applications, written using gtk , clutter etc., i have the ui for launching them , let us say 
[08:59] <lool> hmm
[09:00] <lool> XPPRESP3: You could read the ewmh specification, that might be a good start
[09:00] <XPPRESP3> and now , how do i mange these applications , i mean if i'am showing the user the open applications, how do i switch between them ?
[09:00] <XPPRESP3> like we have in mobile phons
[09:01] <XPPRESP3> phones, i mean
[09:01] <lool> XPPRESP3: I'm afraid this knowledge is slow to grasp, you want to write your own minimal Xorg programs and print debug over what the WM is doing
[09:02] <lool> XPPRESP3: You could also look at the metacity/compiz source code
[09:03] <XPPRESP3> ok, now , i understand it will be difficult to grasp, i'am looking for something which is already there, and a bit easier to learn and customize
[09:03] <XPPRESP3> i will look at the options you sent, thank you 
[09:04] <lool> I'm afraid it's not easy; but the EMWH spec has pointers to the Xorg bits and that should cover 90% of the API which WMs use to handle windows
[09:04] <XPPRESP3> ok, what's the best route for me, as i need to build a prototype, 
[09:04] <XPPRESP3> maybe i can go into the gory details, later
[09:05] <XPPRESP3> metacity , is something i should look at , right ?
[09:05] <lool> Sure
[09:05] <lool> or compiz
[09:05] <XPPRESP3> ok, great, thank you for your time 
[09:05] <XPPRESP3> and suggestions
[11:04] <Ajay> hi to all ,is there .deb package for PassiceTex 
[12:53] <lool> Ajay: Never heard of that; is the spelling correct?
[12:53] <Ajay> lool, yes it is correct
[12:54] <lool> Ajay: It doesn't seem to be in the Ubuntu archive; the Ubuntu wiki explains how you can request new packages
[12:54] <lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
[12:55] <lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
[13:55] <lool> NCommander: Did you update the meeting page with the last two weeks of actions?
[13:56] <dereks>  /topic
[13:56] <lool> dereks: Topic for #ubuntu-mobile: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/weatherreport.html | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/FAQ
[13:56] <lool> :-P
[13:57] <ogra> heh
[13:58] <dereks> lool: yeah :) i had a space
[13:58] <dereks> thanks :)
[14:56] <wutzara_netbook> njpatel: Hey Neil. Did you know, how to compile the netbook-launcher? The INSTALL dont give me a solution to solve the compile-process.
[14:56] <lool> plars: I tried looking at which teams I'm in to set release tracking
[14:56] <lool> plars: I think that's the one: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-drivers/+members
[14:56] <lool> plars: I'm in via UDS Organizers
[14:57] <plars> lool: ok
[14:57] <lool> plars: Most QA folks are in via canonical-qa
[14:57] <lool> plars: Not sure how to fix this
[14:57] <plars> lool: I'll take a look, but do you know if there are any historical criteria for what gets targetted?
[14:57] <lool> plars: What do you mean?
[14:58] <plars> lool: as in, what are normally the criteria for deciding if, and by when, a bug should be targetted to a release?
[14:58] <lool> plars: Oh you're not in ubuntu-bugcontrol?
[14:58] <plars> lool: I am
[14:59] <lool> ah probably you are, it's just paged
[14:59] <lool> Right saw you
[14:59] <lool> it didn't make any sense t ome
[14:59] <njpatel> wutzara_netbook: sudo apt-get install build-dep netbook-launcher && ./configure && make && make install ?
[14:59] <playya_> or use pbuilder
[15:01] <lool> plars: Perhaps the easiest to sort this is to chat with the QA team and see whether they can grant you access?
[15:01] <lool> plars: or with release team
[15:01] <lool> either would know
[15:01] <wutzara_netbook> njpatel: he didnt find build-dep. What is that for a packet?
[15:01] <lool> I'm not 100% sure myself
[15:02] <lool> plars: Criteria > well it's a rough feeling on impact and severity
[15:02] <njpatel> wutzara_netbook: it installs all the dependancies of a package, so you can build it
[15:02] <ogra> but its written wronglx
[15:02] <lool> is everybody affected, is it data loss, is it security vulnerability, does it break the system etc.
[15:02] <ogra> *wrongly
[15:02] <ogra> wutzara_netbook, its: sudo apt-get build-dep netbook-launcher
[15:02] <ogra> no "install" in there
[15:03] <lool> plars: So it's some kind of feel/score you see on the bug; a crasher in a specific setup / corner case is not as important as a crasher for 50% os users on boot etc.
[15:03] <plars> lool: but targetting it to a specific release, I kinda feel like I'm making promises about when someone is going to fix it by - wouldn't that be better left up to whoever is going to be assigined the bug?
[15:03] <njpatel> ogra: ah, dammit, thanks for that
[15:03] <ogra> ;)
[15:03]  * njpatel blames the fact that he's ill
[15:03] <lool> plars: Bug targetting is really about saying "Wow this bug is important enough that we should make sure we track status in the foo series"
[15:03] <njpatel> wutzara_netbook: sorry, what ogra said
[15:03] <lool> plars: And hence puts it on the release team's radar
[15:04] <lool> There's an implicit commitment that we will get poked about it
[15:04] <wutzara_netbook> njpatel: ok he download some packages - thanks for that hint. but i dont have a configure skript in the actual branch
[15:04] <lool> But if the bug is truly that important then it's the right thing to do
[15:04] <njpatel> wutzara_netbook: ah, you using bzr; do ./autogen.sh instead of ./configure
[15:05] <plars> lool: understand
[15:06] <plars> lool: have to run afk for a bit, back soon
[15:06] <lool> plars: It's hard to give you a perfect algorithm; perhaps the release team has better recommendations on the heuristics they follow
[15:06] <wutzara_netbook> ok - thanks. I will try it. Thanks a lot for the Tricks. i am want to participate in this project but i dont get it to compile - thats really ashamed :(
[15:06] <lool> plars: Attend a release meeting to see how it works if you like
[15:06] <lool> plars: Or read the log
[15:06] <plars> lool: I usually lurk on it
[15:06] <lool> plars: Ok; I think that gives a good feel on the purpose / handling of these items
[15:07] <lool> win 1
[15:07] <lool> Ups
[15:27] <wutzara_netbook> njpatel: ok all worked so far. is it essential that i run make install? or can i test the launcher without to install it in /usr/ ?
[15:28] <njpatel> wutzara_netbook: the launcher has data such as images that it references and expects in the target, so make install is necessary
[15:29] <wutzara_netbook> njpatel: ok but if i had the launcher already installed. I only want to test some changes in a *sandbox* before i crash my running system
[15:29] <njpatel> wutzara_netbook: if you've already got it installed in /usr, and you ran ./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr, then it should work
[15:31] <wutzara_netbook> njpatel: ok - and which file i  should start after compiling. Sorry for the beginner-questions
[15:31] <njpatel> wutzara_netbook: src/netbook-launcher
[15:32] <njpatel> wutzara_netbook: you can start with "-w" option, if you don't want it to take over your desktop
[15:42] <wutzara_netbook> njpatel: thanks alot. all worked like you said. I wondering that no clutteranimations is showed in windowed mode
[15:43] <njpatel> wutzara_netbook: they should be, not sure why they aren't
[15:43] <njpatel> wutzara_netbook: the only animation that won't show is the one when the launcher is out of focus and fades a bit...the rest should work as normal
[15:44] <wutzara_netbook> njpatel: its all there - but the backgound is not showed - no rectangle around the icons and so on. I can post a picture
[18:56] <davmor2> Guys do you know that today's daily is a little pear shape?  I get a block top left that has a a down arrow in it and a tiny block that overlaps that one slightly and that's it
[19:17] <davmor2> GrueMaster: did you get your AAO back yet?
[19:18] <GrueMaster> Just got word that it is in route to me.  Should get it in a couple of days.
[19:24] <davmor2> Yay
[19:42] <lool> davmor2: Build of what? UNR?
[19:42] <davmor2> lool: yes
[19:44] <lool> davmor2: Do you think it's related to the boot stuff?
[19:46] <davmor2> lool: This seems to be the menu systems but in miniature.  However I burnt from karmic.  I'm about to try again with one burnt from jaunty usb creator and see if it's just an issues with that
[20:04] <davmor2> lool: okay that's better but still not right.  I get the top bar with default gnome gfx.  the cursor is the circle and it's constantly spinning, and there is no menu or backdrop
[20:07] <davmor2> lool: damn I click on the bar now it is the same as the other was
[20:14] <davmor2> lool: http://www.davmor2.co.uk/unr.jpg
[20:14] <lool> davmor2: Can you launch a terminal?
[20:14] <lool> davmor2: Did you see xsplash?
[20:15] <davmor2> lool: yes saw xsplash
[20:15] <davmor2> I can access ctrl-alt-Fx
[20:20] <davmor2> lool: does it use clutter to display?
[20:21] <lool> davmor2: Yes
[20:21] <lool> davmor2: Can you check .xsession-errors?
[20:21] <davmor2> lool: ps aux says no clutter running
[20:22] <lool> davmor2: clutter is just a lib
[20:23] <lool> No process
[20:23] <davmor2> ah
[20:23] <lool> davmor2: Check for a netbook-launcher process
[20:23] <davmor2> there are .xsession errors just trying to get them for you
[20:23] <lool> davmor2: Perhaps plugging wired ethernet NM will autoconnect?
[20:24] <lool> davmor2: Otherwise use cmdline ethernet setup
[20:24] <davmor2>  yes and if that fail another usb pen drive 2 ticks
[20:25] <davmor2> lool: try http://www.davmor2.co.uk/.xsession-errors
[20:27] <lool> davmor2: Could you dpkg -l apport\*?
[20:28] <lool> davmor2: actually no need thanks
[20:28] <lool> The apport failures are odd
[20:28] <lool> gnome-session[5103]: WARNING: Could not launch application 'gnome-keyring-daemon.desktop': Unable to start application: Failed to execute child process "gnome-keyring-daemon" (Input/output error)
[20:28] <lool> davmor2: You're getting IO errors
[20:29] <lool> davmor2: Looks like your hardware is defunct
[20:29] <lool> or you have a serious kernel issue
[20:29] <davmor2> lool: this is running from a new pen drive
[20:29] <lool> davmor2: Hmm I wonder what would explain IO errors then
[20:29] <lool> davmor2: Check dmesg?
[20:30] <davmor2> knickers squashfs error abound
[20:31] <davmor2> I'll try reformatting the drive and drop it back on again
[20:34] <lool> Ah
[20:34] <lool> that explains
[20:34] <lool> davmor2: Try the ISO in a VM too if you can
[20:38] <davmor2> lool that's not pretty in vm 
[20:39] <davmor2> lool but at least the taskbar was correct :)
[20:40] <lool> davmor2: It should work in virtualbox
[20:40] <davmor2> I use kvm and virt manager
[20:41] <lool> problem is that you get no 3d
[20:41] <lool> virtualbox can pass through the opengl stuff
[20:43] <lool> davmor2: I am booting the current ISO
[20:53] <davmor2> lool: same again meh
[20:53] <lool> davmor2: Well dig the first squashfs errors in your dmesg
[20:53] <lool> davmor2: They might be a kernel issue
[20:54] <davmor2> I'm dropping vbox on 2 ticks
[21:03] <davmor2> lool: works in vbox
[21:03] <davmor2> burnt it to cd I'm going to try it on real hw
[21:05] <davmor2> so the cd works too it's just got to be the transfer to usb :(
[21:06] <lool> too bad
[21:10] <davmor2> I just used gparted on unr to format the pendrive so lets try again :)
[21:27] <davmor2> right formating with vista