/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/16/#edubuntu.txt

=== Ahmuck-Sr is now known as Ahmuck
LaserJockanybody alive?02:20
Ahmuckyes02:21
LaserJockgood to know somebody is :-)02:22
sbalneavHey hey LaserJock02:23
LaserJockhi sbalneav02:28
LaserJocksbalneav: how's it going?02:28
LaserJockso uh yeah, we really need to get Karmic going here02:43
Ahmuckwhat's wrong with karmic?02:45
LaserJockwell, as of right now there's no release02:45
Ahmucki assume that a doc has been worked on about using different techs for "classroom"02:45
LaserJockI'm trying to get an Alpha 6 out but it's sketchy02:46
LaserJockI'm afraid we're going to have a working sabayon, and a cool LTSP-cluster, but then have no .iso :(02:47
Ahmucki wouldn't consider that a bad thing02:48
Ahmuckwho needs releases02:48
LaserJockwell, Edubuntu will die if it doesn't release02:48
LaserJockpeople will look for an .iso02:48
LaserJockthey don't understand or don't want to get things via a network connection02:49
AhmuckCrunchBang Linux 9.04.01 Released02:49
AhmuckWednesday, July 8th, 200902:49
LaserJocksome people, I should say02:49
Ahmuckas well as others, release late02:49
LaserJockwe can't02:49
Ahmuckwhy02:49
Ahmucksure we can02:49
LaserJockbecause we are tied to Ubuntu's schedule02:49
Ahmuckbetter to release late than release crappy02:49
Ahmuckwhy02:49
LaserJockbecause the Ubuntu Release Team  builds our .iso02:50
Ahmuckpcos, crunchbang, lubuntu, fluxbuntu, etc all have "other" release dates02:50
Ahmuckso if they build the iso, then we'll have an iso02:50
LaserJockbecause they aren't official releases02:50
Ahmuckthey may not be "official" but they at least work02:51
LaserJockyes02:51
Ahmuckand they have a following02:51
LaserJockwell, I can't change that much right now02:51
LaserJockwe just need to gain some interest in actually getting a release out02:51
Ahmuckso what's holding up the release?02:52
LaserJockwell, basically people working on the .iso02:52
LaserJockparticularly the seeds, and testing the output02:52
LaserJockbut for instance, we don't have a boot splash02:53
LaserJockI'm not sure if the boot menus are right02:53
Ahmuck<LaserJock>because the Ubuntu Release Team builds our .iso - they don't work on the .iso ?02:53
LaserJockand I know the contents of the Livefs are not right, but I've hopefully fixed that to some degree02:53
LaserJockthe Ubuntu Release Team runs the scripts02:54
LaserJockit's up to us to make sure the contents are right02:54
Ahmuckwhat script would they run if the iso wasn't ready?02:54
LaserJockthe scripts that build the .iso02:54
LaserJockthen they host them02:54
LaserJockbut so far little has been done to actual put contents on the DVD02:55
Ahmuckwhat script is currently?02:55
LaserJockthere is a set of scripts02:56
LaserJockthat build Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu, Ubuntu Studio, Ubuntu Netbook Remix02:56
LaserJockthere are 3 main components that I can tell, the livefs builder, the debian-cd scripts to build the .iso, and ubuntu-cdimage to run it all and build the pages on cdimage.ubuntu.com02:57
Ahmuckhonestly, if there is lack of participation on ubuntu's side, and/or canonical, i'd seriously look at taking edubuntu into it's own relm.  without some of the tools such as italc, saybayon, and a good base of docs i don't think you have anything02:57
LaserJockno no02:58
Ahmuckmost of the individuals coming into edubuntu that i've seen are not running stand alone installations.  they are running network installation02:58
LaserJockthe *only* participation has been on the Ubuntu side02:58
LaserJockthe problem is in getting the Edubuntu side going02:58
Ahmucki thought there was a canonical employee doing some coding at one time02:58
LaserJocknot for Edubuntu anymore02:58
Ahmuckthere was, correct02:58
Ahmuckimho, putting a dvd out that is halfway there would be more damaging to edubuntu than putting out something that is more complete.  if this means one has to push the release date back, then so be it.03:00
Ahmuckthat would allow edubuntu to get a real grip on what's it wants on the dvd, and create something that works03:01
Ahmuckpoint me to the docs on getting it into ubuntu.03:01
AhmuckLaserJock: ?03:02
LaserJockwell03:03
LaserJockI'm not sure pushing the release date will do much if people aren't going to do it03:03
LaserJockif it's a matter of pushing the release to make sure we get final stuff then we can look at doing that at that time03:03
LaserJockbut I think it's doable now if people can push and contribute where possible03:04
AhmuckOfficially Supported Derivatives03:04
AhmuckThese derivatives are fully supported by Canonical and the Ubuntu community.03:04
Ahmuck      Kubuntu - Ubuntu with the K Desktop Environment03:04
Ahmuck      Edubuntu - Ubuntu for Education03:04
Ahmucknotice the word "fully"03:04
Ahmuckthere is a double message there03:04
LaserJockwell, this has nothing much to do with Canonical though03:04
Ahmuckdo you have a contribution document?03:04
LaserJocknot really03:04
Ahmuckfully supported by Canonical03:05
LaserJockit depends on what a person wants to contribute03:05
Ahmuckhttp://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/derivatives03:05
LaserJockCanonical is building our .isos for us and hosting them03:05
LaserJockand providing a huge amount of work into the core of Edubuntu03:05
Ahmuckwhat is the core?03:05
Ahmucksaybayon?03:05
LaserJockUbuntu03:05
Ahmucki undestand they had decided to drop saybayaon03:06
LaserJocki.e. the kernel, Gnome, etc.03:06
Ahmuckunder that permise, crunchbang is fully supported03:06
LaserJockDebian dropped sabayon03:06
LaserJockno03:06
Ahmuckanywho, moving on03:06
LaserJockcrunchbang has separate archives, separate hosting and builds03:06
Ahmuckas a person, i don't know how to contribute if i don't know what needs to be contributed to03:06
Ahmucka task list03:07
Ahmuckperhaps on the wiki03:07
Ahmucksome centralized location03:07
LaserJockI can try to work something up03:08
LaserJocksome of it is I don't know exactly right now what all needs to be done03:08
LaserJockas I haven't testing anything myself03:08
LaserJockhighvoltage mentioned that the DVD bootup was a bit funky03:09
LaserJockwe need to track down if that's a general thing (i.e. in Ubuntu too) or an Edubuntu problem03:09
Ahmuckso the dvd is made already ?03:10
Ahmuckwhere have you been finding your info so far about the "scripts"?03:10
* Ahmuck looking through the ubuntu derivities list. moon os just looks awesome03:11
LaserJockthe DVD is built automatically daily03:12
LaserJockhttp://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/03:12
Ahmuckso u just need someone to download and test?03:16
LaserJockright now that's definitely a help03:17
LaserJockhopefully as we find issues people can step up to help solve them03:17
LaserJockmy problem is that I'm now working for the US military and don't have a lot of free time and I can't work on Ubuntu during work hours03:18
LaserJockso my usefulness is going to be limited03:18
LaserJockI'd like to cut down the size of the DVD03:21
LaserJockright now it's ~ 3.6GB03:21
LaserJockI think it should be half that03:21
ace_suaresLaserJock: you promised to send a mail to the list when testing was needed03:28
LaserJockwell, I'm still waiting to get the Edubuntu stuff in the live session03:29
LaserJockbut after hearing what highvoltage said I think maybe we could start general testing of the install03:30
LaserJockperhaps the specific set of package we install is secondary to having a DVD that boots and installs :-)03:30
ace_suares########------------ 43.4% 162.8 kBps 0:26 ETA03:30
LaserJockI just didn't want to waste people's time on something that's essentially the Ubuntu DVD03:31
ace_suaresI did test the live CD *and* the install03:31
LaserJockace_suares: and it all went well?03:31
ace_suaresyes, i told you that (i think) when you first anounced the dvd a week or more ago03:32
Ahmuckyes, i'm curious, what is different about the edubuntu dvd ?03:32
ace_suaresI did a zsync now and there seems minimal difference03:32
ace_suaresdid you just say you had a new dvd with more edubuntu stuff in the install version or did i misread?03:32
LaserJockwell, I thought I did but I didn't03:33
LaserJocktoday's build failed03:33
ace_suaresoh okay03:33
ace_suareslet me know when you have a good build03:33
LaserJockI had to get cjwatson to fix some stuff in the build scripts03:33
ace_suaresI'll test immediately as bandwidth allows03:33
LaserJockanything after the 16th should be good to test03:33
LaserJockAlpha 6 is scheduled for release Thursday03:33
ace_suaresok please send a mail you might attract more testers ;-003:33
LaserJockso it's critical we test between now and then in order for an .iso to be released03:34
ace_suaresbfn03:34
LaserJockyes, I was just waiting until I had one that I knew was different from Ubuntu's03:34
LaserJockAhmuck: currently they are almost identical03:34
LaserJockAhmuck: I've been working on trying to add in the Edubuntu bits but it's a bit of a slow process03:35
Ahmucki don't think you have enough devs to do the job03:45
LaserJockwe'll see I guess03:46
LaserJockI'm not sure where all the people who were demanding a DVD went though :(03:46
LaserJockI was hoping they'd chip in a bit03:46
* Ahmuck never would have demanded a dvd03:47
Ahmucki just got a dvd player last year03:47
Ahmuckwho is the target audience?03:48
LaserJockI dont' like how a DVD seems to automatically double the download size03:48
Ahmuckthat's why i don't download dvd's03:48
LaserJockschools, teachers, parents I suppose are the target03:48
Ahmucki like the 600mb cd size03:48
Ahmuckthere is a real difference in all three03:49
LaserJockyeah, it's unfortunate that CD is just too small to get many features in03:49
Ahmuckall three audiences have different goals03:49
LaserJockyep03:49
Ahmuckwere more like a school03:49
LaserJockEducation is a huge space03:49
Ahmuckthough i do teach classes03:49
Ahmuckis there a reason edubuntu can't be a "mentoring" organization so to speak?03:50
Ahmuckcreating solutions?03:50
Ahmuckrather than concentrating on distro making?03:50
LaserJockwell, I'm not sure03:51
LaserJockI think some of the problem is that people want products03:51
Ahmucknone of the computers i use edubuntu on have dvd players03:51
LaserJocki.e. people want a disk they can use03:51
Ahmuckthey are all 800mhz and 512mb ram03:51
LaserJockUSB ports?03:52
Ahmuckthere are ubuntu based edu products out there03:52
Ahmuckit has usb ports, yes03:52
LaserJockyou can burn the .iso to a USB disk03:52
LaserJockI just don't know that Edubuntu can ditch the technical bits all together03:53
LaserJockit seems to me that it wouldn't be very helpful if we were a mentoring organization if we didn't care about the underlying software03:53
LaserJockand if we care about the underlying software it seems that we should care about delivering that software03:53
Ahmuckwould a parent be able to download an iso and create and iso usb disk ?03:54
LaserJockyes03:54
Ahmucknone of mine would03:55
LaserJockfrom an Ubuntu computer it's easy03:55
Ahmuckthey have a hard time finding openoffice03:55
LaserJockit's System -> Administration -> USB Startup Disk Creator03:55
Ahmuckhrm, i'm trying to be consise with my words03:55
LaserJockI know what you mean, but there's just not a lot we can do03:56
LaserJockI'd love to make the whole thing foolproof and super easy03:56
LaserJockbut I have a hard enough time getting an .iso at all :(03:57
LaserJockA good network connection can let you just use Add/Remove03:58
Ahmuckyes, i'm not sure why were not using that04:01
Ahmuckwhen i originally came to edubuntu, i came because i thought it was classroom manamement.  Later I realized that was ubuntu ltsp.04:01
LaserJockwell, it *should* be classroom management in addition to LTSP, etc.04:02
Ahmuckin some respect, i think canonical has a conflict of interest with ltsp because of thier other "pay" product04:02
Ahmuckso i think edubuntu is still trying to define itself imho04:03
LaserJockI think Edubuntu is just trying to survive04:03
Ahmucka lot of educators are looking for a turn key classroom system04:03
LaserJockAhmuck: btw, you can use Add/Remove for Edubuntu stuff04:03
LaserJockI added in goodies to the Education menu04:04
Ahmuckit was my understanding that when edubuntu chose the dvd side, that it was consumer based.  however i'm not sure what was gained with a dvd if it's no different than the ubuntu dvd04:04
LaserJockwell it certainly should be different than the Ubuntu DVD04:04
LaserJockit's just that we're using the Ubuntu DVD as a base04:04
Ahmucksomeone suggested i sit down and draft framework (which i haven't done).  it looks like it may be that time04:04
LaserJockand not much work has been done to make it different04:04
LaserJockif Edubuntu could narrow down to a specific focus or "definition" I think it would help04:06
Ahmuckthat's what i've been saying all along04:06
LaserJocksure04:06
Ahmuckit needs to define itself04:06
LaserJockwe've all been saying that04:06
Ahmuckso ... what's holding it up?04:06
LaserJockbut nobody has really been able to do it, it seems04:06
Ahmuckah, that i can do.  it'll take a couple of weeks04:07
Ahmuckbut there is no way it would be done before karamic04:07
Ahmuckmoreover, someone had made a nice diagram breaking down edubuntu and it's services04:07
Ahmuckhonestly i think you could offer choices upon boot up, server + ltsp, server + ldap + nfs, standalone (for parents), classroom04:08
Ahmuckbut one would have to break it down and do bit by bit.04:09
Ahmucklike over the course of a year04:09
Ahmucki like the fact that saybayon is working.  i wasn't to sure something else shouldn't have been done elsewise, but now that it's working, i won't knock it.04:10
LaserJockright, I'd like to have those bootup choices04:10
Ahmuckwell, i think that a foundation needs to be decided on.  the apps can go on a seperate cd like before or as a complete dvd04:10
Ahmucki think once a foundation is decided upon, one can build from there.  i get the feeling edubuntu is going with every change in wind direction currently04:11
Ahmucki'd like to propose looking at the target audiences and deciding what needs to be done to satisfy each one, starting with the easiest first, selecting the hardest next.04:13
LaserJockwhat do you mean by foundation?04:13
Ahmuckwell, the foundation would be it's direction.  a cd that one could use with those choices, turn key, for a classroom educator04:13
Ahmuckand/or parent04:13
Ahmucki know a lot of work is being done with old pc's in africa, phillipines, etc.04:13
Ahmucki've got a couple of reports on my desk.  were looking for anything that is p3 or better to ship and set up linux computer labs in africa04:14
Ahmuckbut when it ships, it has to work, out of box so to speak04:14
LaserJockbut I don't know what a foundation would be if you've got server, LTSP, and desktop choices04:15
LaserJockthey seem so different that I'm not sure what they would have in common04:15
Ahmuckthe commonality is edu based04:16
Ahmucki'm not here to promote another distro, or derivative, but qimo is an excellent example of a stand alone derivative that works from a parental perspective.  i can give it out at fairs and promotional etc. knowing it's going to work and promote edu04:18
Ahmuckand it's on cd04:18
LaserJockright, but it's fairly limited in scope it seems to me04:18
Ahmuckhow so?04:18
LaserJockdoes it have all the server bits like LTSP, LDAP, etc.?04:19
Ahmuckkids' loved it at the two county fairs (on was the largest county fair in the state outside of the state fair)04:19
Ahmuckit's not a server distro04:19
LaserJockI don't think it's got all that many apps04:19
Ahmuckit's an edu parental distro04:19
LaserJockno, I'm just illustrating04:19
Ahmucklike i said, the kids' loved it04:19
Ahmuckit was easy to install04:19
LaserJockif you focus down, then yeah, it's relatively easy to create a great product04:20
Ahmuckit's on my machines for backup purposes in the event the ltsp server goes down04:20
Ahmuckand quite frankly, ltsp has been a headache for me.  it doesn't really work here04:20
Ahmuckisn't this what edubuntu was attempting to achieve with the dvd ?04:20
LaserJockwhat?04:21
Ahmuckk, what's limited about it?04:21
LaserJockabout Qimo or Edubuntu?04:22
Ahmuckactually you said it, defined it already04:22
AhmuckLaserJock>does it have all the server bits like LTSP, LDAP, etc.?04:22
Ahmuckif this edubuntu, why a dvd? (though for karamic it's to late)04:23
Ahmuckone only needs a ubuntu server cd with server type of options04:23
Ahmuckand an edu app cd04:23
LaserJockbut people didn't like that04:23
Ahmuckwhat people?04:23
LaserJockwe had that for 3-4 releases04:23
LaserJockor maybe 2-304:24
LaserJockusers who came here, on the mailing list, also a company that sells Edubuntu computers04:24
Ahmuckpeople were expecting something like qimo04:24
LaserJocknobody liked the 2 Cd thing04:24
Ahmucksurely were not here for companies selling computers04:24
Ahmucka lot of users have come in here and on the list that were teachers and educators trying to set up "labs" for classrooms and gave it up04:25
Ahmuckbecause of lack of management software04:25
LaserJockright, but people were coming here confused04:26
LaserJockbecause they didn't know how to to get Edubuntu04:26
Ahmuckhowever, sbalneav or is it stgraber has fixed some of that with saybayon04:26
LaserJocksbalneav04:26
LaserJockso we had potential contributors come and say they would work on Edubuntu if it was a DVD and not a CD04:27
Ahmuckimho, qimo fills the parental side04:27
LaserJockso we decided that the Addon CD just wasn't work and went for the DVD04:27
LaserJockright04:27
Ahmuckedubuntu then only needs to fill the server side, with classroom, student, instructor management bits04:27
LaserJockEdubuntu has always leaned more on the classroom server side04:27
Ahmucki've never cared for the dvd, but never protestes either04:28
LaserJockI don't like them either but I don't see a good alternative04:28
Ahmucki think i'd just provide a link to qimo for people wanting stand alone edu *ubuntu04:28
Ahmuckand concentrate on the server side04:28
LaserJockwell04:28
LaserJockI guess04:28
Ahmuckthey can either use aptitude or download the extra cd.  it's the same number of bytes04:29
LaserJockI'd rather see Qimo sort of folded into an Edubuntu "family"04:29
Ahmuckhonestly, they have put a lot of work into that establishing in it's own right04:29
LaserJockyeah04:29
LaserJockit's a hard situation04:29
Ahmuckasking would be nice, but demanding would be rude04:29
LaserJockI love what they've done04:29
LaserJockbut I wish they could have done it within Edubuntu04:30
Ahmuckso, let edubuntu concentrate on the classroom side.  what needs to be done to make a "classroom" distro04:30
Ahmuckimho, edubuntu has been hard to work with04:30
LaserJockI guess some of that's me04:30
LaserJockI'm not a classroom server guy04:30
Ahmuckbut your audience is04:30
LaserJockI don't do LTSP, I don't run a classroom, etc.04:30
LaserJockI'm interested in educational software04:31
Ahmuckfrom a biz standpoint, you always cater to your audience04:31
LaserJockright04:31
Ahmuckeducational software is getting used in "labs"04:31
Ahmuckclassrooms04:31
Ahmuckthey are your target audience right now04:31
Ahmuckit's been interesting to watch lab participation04:31
LaserJockbut I've always liked the parental, university audience :-)04:31
LaserJocknot so much interested in labs particularly04:31
LaserJockbut that's where I think edubuntu needs people who really get the audience04:32
Ahmuckpart of any leadership is looking beyond personal preferences and looking towards group goals04:32
LaserJocksure04:32
LaserJockbut it's difficult to do that when 1) there's not much of a group and 2) you don't have a lot of experience in the other areas04:32
alkisgI haven't tried qimo... What does it offer, except for visual/interface stuff?04:33
Ahmuckif edubuntu can get a turn key server that works, you won't have trouble attracting an audience04:33
LaserJockI didn't mind it when I was just adding some university/science/edu app ideas to the big edubuntu pot04:33
Ahmuckalkisg: put it in front of kids04:33
Ahmucki litterally had kids coming back all night long at our county fair to see if anyboyd had beaten their tux math scores04:34
Ahmuckand if they had, they were in there again trying to get the higher score04:34
Ahmucki didn't realize how effective that bottom bar was at getting attention and naviagating applications04:34
alkisgHow is that related to qimo? Because it preinstalls tux math?04:35
* alkisg doesn't know qimo and is just asking here04:36
Ahmucki didn't have to do anything except install and setup04:36
Ahmuckinstall and then setup at the fair.  i only had an hour before the show04:36
alkisgSo it basically offers icons/themes and other visual apps, and a selection of packages?04:37
Ahmuckthe presentation was part of a local lug presentation.  interestingly enough, two private schools became interested in the project04:37
Ahmuckthey had old computers they wanted to use04:37
Ahmuckdidn't want to buy new ones.  the show blocker was ... no classroom manamgement, tracking individual scores, etc.04:38
Ahmuckand honestly the structure is there in ubuntu now, however it's going to take some "tweaking" to get it in our schools04:38
LaserJockEdubuntu has tux math, it's a matter of a more appealing UI?04:38
alkisgSo qimo offers a tool for classroom management?04:38
* alkisg wishes the qimo site had more info... :(04:39
Ahmuckalkisg: not that i know of currently04:39
AhmuckLaserJock: not entirely.  remember that "add-on" cd.  setting up currently meant, installing ubuntu and then waiting for edubuntu download, and then installing apps from it04:39
alkisgSo how can qimo help me as a teacher? I don't really care about a preinstalled tux math, I can easily install that after the initial installation...04:39
LaserJockAhmuck: well, that's why we went to the DVD04:40
alkisg(I mean in general, any set of apps - unless of course they come preconfigured as part of the installation)04:40
Ahmuckalkisg: correct!  qimo is a stand alone in the home distro from what i've been able to gather04:40
Ahmuckwhich is where edubuntu needs to fill the gap04:40
alkisgAhmuck: so, moving to a dvd == a standalone distro, is a good thing, right?04:40
alkisg(for edubuntu)04:41
Ahmucki don't have dvd's in any of my desktops04:41
Ahmuckits' a mixed blessing04:41
Ahmucka majority of people in town that have computers are using windows.  no spyware, malware problems as a subscribed service that checks those works very well04:42
Ahmuckthose that don't or have the lower end stuff "windows 2000", etc. and what i can give away without having to buy a license04:43
Ahmucki'm rambling now04:43
alkisgAhmuck: you have desktop pcs that are good enought to run edubuntu, but they don't have dvd drives? (and they have cd drives)? What are their specs?04:43
Ahmuck800mhz, 256 to 512mb ram04:43
alkisgAh, you put a lot of ram afterwards...04:44
Ahmuckwe advertise to recycle, then refurb and dump em back to the community.  i have parents that refuse windows because linux is so stable04:44
alkisgI think in this situation it's easy to net-install edubuntu04:44
Ahmuckyes04:45
alkisgMost labs I've seen here in Greece are either incapable of properly running *ubuntu (e.g. 800mhz / 128 ram) _or_ do have a dvd rom04:45
Ahmuckand i DON'T have any interest in paying for windows when i can use linux04:46
Ahmuckalkisg: some busineses here are still using 15" CRT04:46
alkisgMost labs here still use 15" crt :)04:46
Ahmuckheh heh04:46
alkisg(or 14!!!)04:46
Ahmuckyes, i've seen those as well04:47
alkisgBut those generally can't run edubuntu standalone, so they have to work as thin clients04:47
Ahmuckhonestly, the stand alone qimo desktops run better than the ltsp04:47
Ahmuckhere04:47
alkisgIn my experience, if the client is below 1GHz, it runs better as a thin client04:47
Ahmucki'd like so much to dump ltsp and go with centralized login and storage04:48
alkisgE.g. clients so slow can't even play videos on youtube, but they can do so as ltsp clients04:48
Ahmucknot getting away with direction, i've not looked at sugar yet either, but plan to04:48
Ahmuckwell, with the max ram the 800mhz pc's do well04:49
alkisgDo you compare with ltsp on gigabit networks, or on 100mbsp? The difference is huge...!04:49
alkisgWhen I first tried ltsp on 100mbps network, I was somewhat disappointed..04:50
Ahmuckso ur not in favor of a dvd ?04:50
Ahmucki'm on a gigabyte network04:50
Ahmucki did make sure of that04:51
alkisgI am in favor of a dvd. I don't have clients that are capable to run edubuntu and that they don't have dvd drives...04:51
Ahmuckgigabyte switch, cat6 cabling, etc.04:51
alkisgAnd the clients, they do have gigabit nics?04:51
Ahmucki have wondered if my switch has been the problem04:51
Ahmuckno, the clients have the standard nics04:51
Ahmuckthey came with04:51
alkisgThen the whole network functions at 100mbps...04:52
alkisg...*unless* you specially took care to disable flow control.04:52
alkisgI also had this problem. Got a new gigabit switch, a gigabit card on the server, cables etc,...04:52
Ahmuckon the switch ?04:52
Ahmucki've got a gigabyte card on the server04:53
Ahmuckswitch, cables, server nic are all gigabyte04:53
alkisg...and I used netperf to monitor the bandwith. I *always* was < 100 mbps measured on the server04:53
Ahmuckclients are standard nics04:53
alkisgSo all my expences were for nothing04:53
alkisgI bought all the gigabit stuff and I still had 100mbps network speed :(04:53
alkisgThen, 3-4 months after, there was a main in the ltsp-discuss list that mentioned flow control04:54
Ahmuckbecause of the clients04:54
alkisgYes04:54
Ahmuckwhere did you set flow control, at the server side or the switch?04:54
Ahmuckor get new nics for the clients04:54
alkisgFortunately I had an intel gigabit on the server and I was able to disable flow control on the server, because my switch didn't support disabling it04:54
alkisgAfter that, I used  netperf again to monitor the bandwidth04:55
Ahmucki suspect my switch does04:55
Ahmuckand server does as well04:55
alkisgI now had 1000mbps measured on the server. 10 times faster!!!04:55
alkisgAhmuck: even if it does, you may have to disable it from the switch web interfaces04:55
Ahmuckwas this causing problems with firefox/flash?04:55
alkisgHuge problems04:55
alkisg100 mbps is barely enough for openoffice04:55
Ahmuckif i could get those issues resolved, i might not hate ltsp so much04:56
alkisgI couldn't even surf the web with 100 mbps... nor use gimp etc04:56
Ahmuckwere using scribus, gimp, openoffice, and firefox.  however, some apps just don't work well04:56
Ahmuckat this point i'm actually looking at buying a new server04:56
alkisgAhmuck: if you try with 1 single client, with no other users logged on, do you think it's better than when e.g. 10 users are simultaneously working in your lab?04:56
Ahmuckno difference from what i can tell04:57
Ahmuckwell, almost.  there is some difference sometimes04:57
alkisgAnd still with 1 single client, the performance is poor for you?04:57
Ahmucki only have 7 seats04:57
Ahmuckon certian apps, yes04:57
alkisgE.g. what happens if you try to view a dvd from a client?04:57
Ahmuckfirefox (multimedia) and firefox (flash)04:57
alkisg(put the dvd on the server, of course...)04:57
AhmuckSDL apps04:58
Ahmuckhrm, not tried that one yet04:58
Ahmuckdvd crapped out04:58
alkisgIf you only see 5-10 frames per second, you have a bottleneck somewhere04:58
Ahmuckhaven't bought a new one, didn't need one04:58
alkisgI can see more than 20 fps on all my clients at once04:58
alkisg(with the same network specs as you, and 8 clients)04:58
Ahmucki'd be interested in resolving the bottleneck, but wouldn't know how ... could figure it out, but my time is so limited, though i have quit doing so many projects :)04:59
alkisgYou just use netperf to monitor the bandwidth, and top to monitor the cpu04:59
alkisgOn both the server and one ltsp client05:00
alkisgWhat I'm saying is that maybe you haven't seen the best of ltsp... :)05:00
Ahmuckwell, i struggle to keep it open every month.  paying the lease and the inet/phone out of my own pocket has been trying, especially when it's "not" working as i expected.05:01
Ahmucksoo, ltsp is all about using older clients, assuming without upgrading the nic05:02
Ahmuckso, just netperf in a console?05:03
alkisgWell, in my experience, I'd use any PC < 1GHz as an ltsp client, and better PCs with either localapps or as fat clients or as standalone PCs, depending on the local network, the pc specs etc05:03
Ahmuckseriously, i've been looking at in the last week one last big push.  buying a new server, migrating the users, buying new clients and seeing if ltsp was going to work05:05
Ahmucki've got the thing priced out05:05
Ahmuckis your setup documented in ubuntu land anywhere?05:06
alkisgAhmuck: see this one, a benchmark I did for *a different lab*: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Trunking#Benchmarks05:06
alkisgIn that lab, I didn't have gigabit *anywhere*05:06
alkisgSo I had to use 4 x 100mbps nics on the server05:06
Ahmuck300mhz clients?05:07
alkisgAnd there I've put the instructions to disable flow control: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl05:07
Ahmuckwe've been tearing down anything under 800mhz05:07
alkisgAhmuck: yes, my clients on that lab where from 300 MHz to 700 MHz05:07
alkisgI could e.g. watch a "lost" serial in divx format with that client, with no lost dropped frames :)05:08
Ahmucki've got a managed switch.  linksys slm200805:08
alkisgBut if I tried *ubuntu standalone, I couldn't even start firefox with it05:08
alkisgCheck its web interface, maybe there's an option there05:08
* alkisg never had a managed switch05:09
Ahmucki'll take a look at this.  i've been running on about 5 hours of sleep each night for about two weeks05:10
Ahmucki'm to old to do that anymore, and it's alreayd 11:10 pm here again05:10
alkisgWe're never too old :)05:11
Ahmucklol05:11
LaserJockI'm feeling old05:11
alkisgDon't let it get you down!05:11
LaserJockthe PhD just about did me in :(05:12
alkisgLaserJock: heh, you'll get over it before you know it!05:12
Ahmuckwell, enough of my rumbling05:12
alkisgAll it takes is meeting a new girl or something similar :)05:12
Ahmucknn LaserJock & alkisg05:12
alkisgGood night Ahmuck,05:12
LaserJockAhmuck: night05:13
* alkisg also feels too old sometimes, but then starts coding to get over it :P :D05:13
ace_suares1################---- 81.3% 237.6 kBps 51:43 ETA  Segmentation fault11:37
ace_suares1oh too bad...11:37
ace_suares1zsync apparently not so stable11:37
LaserJockso we finally have an Edubuntu DVD22:37
LaserJock.... but it's 4.5GB :(22:37
LaserJockace_suares1: around?23:26
ace_suares1yep23:26
ace_suares1LaserJock: ping23:27
LaserJockace_suares1: it looks like the DVD has all the Edubuntu stuff now23:28
LaserJockthe problem is it's too large to fit on a DVD23:28

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