[00:00] <XmagusX> "/dev/sdb1 is mounted.  e2fsck: Cannot continue, aborting."
[00:00] <keith2> there we go. started network-manager manually.
[00:00] <pwnguin> XmagusX: so uh. you surely have an idea what's wrong there..."
[00:01] <pwnguin> XmagusX: e2fsck is for ext filesystems. you have XFS?
[00:01] <XmagusX> Indeed I do.  Which makes this error rather frustrating.
[00:02] <XmagusX> And actually, I believe I need to correct myself, as I think /dev/sdb1 is my /boot partition and formatted ext2
[00:03] <test34> is the latest update safe ?
[00:03] <keith2> test34, seems to be
[00:04] <[31d1]> some new updates in apt created a bunch of dbus and networking related stuff in /etc. looks promising
[00:04] <test34> ok
[00:06] <CydeSwype> is anyone else annoyed by empathy taking the place of pidgin?
[00:06] <Cynthia> Mildly
[00:06] <CydeSwype> i can't even figure out how to get empathy to blink in the taskbar/tasktray when i have a new message
[00:06] <Matir> CydeSwype, you can continue to use pidgin.  I am.
[00:06] <pwnguin> i still have pidgin on upgrade
[00:06] <CydeSwype> yeah i plan to Matir, i'm just worried about the average user that plays with ubuntu and considers switching
[00:07] <Matir> CydeSwype, fair point.  I know a lot of work to integrate Empathy with the notification system is still underway
[00:07] <cjwatson> Scott says that the currently-running publisher run includes all his fixes, on amd64 and i386
[00:07] <cjwatson> that will be available in about an hour
[00:07] <cjwatson> (at least from archive.ubuntu.com, dunno about all mirrors)
[00:08] <pwnguin> you know, when most people break the build
[00:08] <pwnguin> they mean the compiler fails with a terminal error
[00:08] <pwnguin> this deserves some sort of super award / achievement :)
[00:09] <Cynthia> Achievement Unlocked: Build Breaker
[00:10] <superdump> :)
[00:10] <cjwatson> pwnguin: I've definitely committed bugs that erased disks in the past
[00:10] <superdump> hehehe nice
[00:10] <pwnguin> cjwatson: well, RAID's already tricky
[00:10] <cjwatson> who mentioned RAID?
[00:10] <XmagusX> Bollocks.  I found out what the issue seems to be.  /dev/sda and /dev/sdb seemed to have swapped.
[00:11] <test34> pavucontrol should be part of a default install
[00:11] <cjwatson> XmagusX: that happens, that's why we try to use UUIDs everywhere
[00:11] <cjwatson> device naming isn't stable unless you're using something like LVM
[00:11] <pwnguin> i donno. seems like the easiest way to screw up is to break mdadm. but i guess UUIDs are another tool of mayham
[00:11] <superdump> are LVM + RAID safe?
[00:12] <superdump> with the current initscript flux i mean
[00:12] <cjwatson> goodness knows
[00:12] <pwnguin> nothing is safe. have backups.
[00:12] <superdump> my system hasn't imploded
[00:12] <XmagusX> Anyone have any suggestions as to how to overcome this hurdle?
[00:13] <Nafai> So it's the init scripts that are broken?
[00:13] <pwnguin> there's like twenty backup tools packaged in ubuntu :)
[00:13] <cjwatson> XmagusX: use 'sudo blkid -o value -s UUID /dev/sdb1' etc. to find UUIDs for each device, and make /etc/fstab use UUID=blah rather than /dev/sdb1 etc.
[00:14] <cjwatson> the installer has set it up that way by default for some time
[00:14] <pwnguin> one thing ive been looking at is cloning UUIDs
[00:14] <Artemis3> that works fine unless you replace your disk :)
[00:15] <cjwatson> yes, none of the solutions are perfect
[00:15] <pwnguin> this makes coredevel people understandably nervous
[00:16] <cjwatson> I wrote a mini-dissertation on the topic in http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2008/12/msg00338.html
[00:16] <pwnguin> OSX can easily make bootable backups via rsync, but UUIDs undo that
[00:17] <cjwatson> actually replacing disks and reimaging is fine with UUIDs
[00:17] <cjwatson> the problem is if you *didn't* want the reimaged filesystem to be treated the same as the previous one for the purposes of mounting
[00:17] <test34> pwnguin, why do you need OSX to do that
[00:17] <cjwatson> (as long as you reimage the full filesystem, not just its contents)
[00:18] <pwnguin> imagine you've got a spare drive on a USB enclosure
[00:18] <pwnguin> and nightly rsyncs to it
[00:18] <cjwatson> indeed, if you use rsync or similar for backups then you need to take care to restore the UUID in the event of a complete filesystem obliteration (as opposed to merely a few files lost)
[00:18] <Cynthia> I just use the dd tool, piped through gzip -1 :D
[00:18] <Cynthia> but that doesn't do incremental backups very well
[00:19] <pwnguin> cjwatson: right. but what i dont think you want to do is clone the UUID until the old one dies
[00:19] <pwnguin> err
[00:19] <pwnguin> too many negatives
[00:19] <pwnguin> you dont want two UUIDs in the same system
[00:19] <cjwatson> pwnguin: indeed
[00:20] <cjwatson> my approach would either be to save it somewhere independently, or else just to reset the UUID in /etc/fstab et al if you end up needing to do a full-filesystem restore
[00:20] <pwnguin> i like the full filesystem restore idea mainly because my desktop's been running ubuntu for ten releases without reinstalling
[00:21] <[31d1]> pwnguin: are you saying that your bootable clone would have the same UUID, and then when you tried to boot from it crazy things would happen?
[00:21] <[31d1]> or that it would have a different one and be broken?
[00:21] <pwnguin> the later, but worse
[00:21] <[31d1]> ah
[00:21] <pwnguin> the bootable clone would either be different and broken
[00:21] <pwnguin> or identical and confusing at boot
[00:22] <[31d1]> i've been trying in a background fashion to make simple bootable backups on ubuntu and havent ever really found a simple enough way
[00:22] <pwnguin> perhaps i should publish my notes thus far
[00:23] <[31d1]> probably one of the only things i miss about using mac was i knew a way to do that
[00:23] <pwnguin> ideally, you'd attach a USB enclosured drive and leave it
[00:24] <[31d1]> ideally i wouldn't leave it, but just update it every few days, and be able to boot from it if i wanted to
[00:24] <[31d1]> but yeah
[00:24] <superdump> i currently use rsync (well, unison cos i'm lazy) to back up important documents to other machines
[00:24] <[31d1]> i have good backups with rsync, but not nice and bootable
[00:25] <superdump> my bootable backup is the redundant drive in my RAID
[00:25] <pwnguin> alternatively, you drop the bootable backup solution and just back up critical stuff like /home and /etc and dpkg -l
[00:25] <cjwatson> my recommendation would be to make a new filesystem for the backup so that it has a different UUID, rsync to it or whatever, and have a written procedure for restoring it that includes updating /etc/fstab and your boot loader configuration
[00:26] <cjwatson> oh and /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume. there are more files to touch than is strictly ideal, but it's not a completely unreasonable number either
[00:26] <NoelJB> anyone else seeing lots of SYMLINK{unique} errors on boot?
[00:27] <cjwatson> NoelJB: harmless, I understand, but known
[00:27] <DKcross> well
[00:27] <superdump> that's about half an hour wasted, half an hour-ish til the builds are done i guess
[00:27] <DKcross> now , dont work atheros  in karmic?
[00:28] <NoelJB> cjwatson, OK.  Do you have an LP # for it?
[00:28] <MaximLevitsky> very recent update removed /etc/init.d/NetworkManager
[00:28] <superdump> though i'm hooked up to the gb archive mirror so i guess it'll be a bit longer for me
[00:28] <NoelJB> cjwatson, what about the fact that network-manager isn't starting?
[00:28] <cjwatson> NoelJB: I don't know that it's filed
[00:28] <MaximLevitsky> is this intentional (switch to upstart)?
[00:29] <cjwatson> NoelJB: the boot reorganisation is still publishing - you upgraded too early. An upgrade in half an hour or so should improve things
[00:29] <cjwatson> MaximLevitsky: yes
[00:29] <NoelJB> MaximLevitsky, yeah, it's this very late and ill-conceived (just given the proximity to release) migration from initscripts to upstart.  Fine idea, but WAY late in the cycle.
[00:29] <MaximLevitsky> NoelJB: great!!!!!
[00:29] <cjwatson> with due respect we disagree on the ill-conceived part, but given the late hour I'm happy to agree to differ on that
[00:29] <NoelJB> cjwatson, just checking.  I know that stuff has been in process.
[00:29] <MaximLevitsky> cjwatson: the bad idea was to use devicekit!
[00:29] <NoelJB> cjwatson, ill-conceived only because of the lateness.
[00:30] <cjwatson> NoelJB: yes, I did read what you said, but I still respectfully disagree
[00:30] <MaximLevitsky> devicekit really kills me here.... I hate its new bugs
[00:30] <NoelJB> cjwatson, not the idea.  would have been fine a month or two ago, or for karmic+1, but a month before release?
[00:30] <cjwatson> we thought about it fairly hard
[00:30] <pwnguin> it's not out of character, if you look at the history
[00:30] <Nafai> So if I can't boot my system all the way...how to I fix?
[00:30] <cjwatson> doing it for karmic+1 would have meant a new init script system in an LTS release
[00:30] <[31d1]> hey my boot's down to 8 seconds, i like it :)
[00:30] <MaximLevitsky> especially new gnome-disk-utility
[00:31] <pwnguin> beryl, pulseaudio, etc
[00:31] <NoelJB> cjwatson, ah, fair point on that one.
[00:31] <MaximLevitsky> my boot is 1:30 seconds....
[00:31] <cjwatson> Nafai: a live CD plus https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery may help
[00:31] <MaximLevitsky> I mean 1 minute 30 seconds
[00:31] <superdump> [31d1]: are you serious?
[00:31] <MaximLevitsky> and this is new laptop
[00:31] <Nafai> cjwatson: Cool, I was imagining a chroot :)
[00:31] <pwnguin> [31d1]: post a bootchart!
[00:32] <[31d1]> http://lrrr.us/boot.png but i have a sweet X-25 SSD :)
[00:32] <Cynthia> [31d1]: it may boot in 8 seconds, but can it log out in less than 10 seconds? :P
[00:32] <Nafai> [31d1]: jealous
[00:32] <pwnguin> heh
[00:32] <[31d1]> Cynthia: no, it can't :)
[00:32] <pwnguin> the chart's too short for the process names
[00:32] <Cynthia> Hehe
[00:33] <[31d1]> i need to run it with a sleep in there so i can see Gnome being all just as slow as ever, though
[00:33] <superdump> why is logging out slow?
[00:33] <Nafai> I admit I don't understand the fascination with fast booting, how often do you boot your machine?
[00:33] <Cynthia> There's a 10 seconds where GNOME just does nothing
[00:34] <[31d1]> although some of the time from login->desktop i think is cause my window manager doesn't tell dbus stuff it's waiting to hear
[00:34] <DKcross> ath5k isnt working ?
[00:34] <Cynthia> and then the hard drive seeks again and reads for logging out
[00:34] <DKcross> i cant use
[00:34] <pwnguin> Nafai: I boot daily.
[00:35] <Nafai> Since I use hibernate, I only reboot my laptop and my desktop when I've upgraded a kernel pretty much
[00:35] <[31d1]> Nafai: running alphas makes me boot a lot
[00:35] <NoelJB> MaximLevitsky, I'm looking at the gdu problem, but with the holidays and company coming, I don't know how much time I'll have before next week.  I don't know if anyone else is looking.
[00:35] <Nafai> [31d1]: True :)
[00:35] <cjwatson> Nafai: booting daily is pretty common; fast boot tends to depend on having clean and more reliable code which is good for reasons other than speed; kernel upgrades; in cloud computing environments boot time costs real money
[00:36] <DanaG> oh yeah, and why the heck can't I "remember authentication" anymore?
[00:36] <cjwatson> those are a few reasons why we care
[00:36] <[31d1]> but i'd say it's mostly just an easy metric that relates to how fast everything else is
[00:36] <Nafai> cjwatson: good point, I'm well acquainted with that last one
[00:36] <pwnguin> DanaG: in relation to what?
[00:36] <Nafai> I help manage 2000-3000 Debian boxes for my day job
[00:36] <cjwatson> there's also a step function involved in tasks that take a certain amount of time
[00:37] <cjwatson> if something takes maybe anything up to thirty seconds, I'll probably sit and wait for it
[00:37] <DanaG> In trying to mount my external drive.'
[00:37] <cjwatson> if it takes a minute or more, I'll go off and get coffee
[00:37] <DanaG> It always asks for authentication every time I plug it in.
[00:37] <DanaG> Policykit used to have a checkbox for "remember authentication"... but now no longer does.
[00:37] <cjwatson> so actually slow tasks tend to eat up disproportionately more than their wallclock time
[00:38] <DanaG> Also, the devicekit stuff doesn't show up at all in the policykit control thingy.
[00:38] <pwnguin> cjwatson: only if you assume coffee is unproductive :)
[00:38] <cjwatson> differently productive. :)
[00:38] <pwnguin> turn on the computer, then go take a shower. even fsck should be done by then :)
[00:39] <NoelJB> pwnguin, that depends on the size of the drive and the water temperature.
[00:40] <Cynthia> I sure hope the water isn't going on the hard drive being fsck'ed
[00:40]  * Lars_G coughs a hairball
[00:41] <dto> hi folks. what's the status on upgrading to karmic from within jaunty? failed earlier
[00:41] <DKcross> hey people, i have ath5k
[00:41] <Lars_G> \o/
[00:41] <DKcross> but now, i cant use
[00:41] <DKcross> andy idea?
[00:41] <Lars_G>  /o\
[00:42] <NoelJB> dto, worked for me, but I see some odd behavior compared to a clean install, so I'll probably reinstall when I get time.
[00:42] <dto> NoelJB: when did you do it?
[00:42] <cjwatson> dto: it should be happier shortly
[00:42] <cjwatson> dto: give it twenty minutes maybe
[00:42] <NoelJB> dto, while back.
[00:42] <NoelJB> dto, you're seeing something recent?
[00:42] <dto> cjwatson: wonderful. i will keep my eyes on the channel.
[00:43] <superdump> cjwatson: roughly how long does replication around the archive servers take?
[00:43] <cjwatson> superdump: I don't know
[00:43] <dto> NoelJB: yes, i tried it earlier today when re-doing my system from scratch, and it didn't work. failed during computation of the upgrade
[00:43] <cjwatson> superdump: the central ones update in maybe 10-20 minutes at worst under vaguely normal circumstances, but who knows about the more far-flung mirrors
[00:43] <Cynthia> dto: I had that too, it fixed itself some 2 hours later
[00:44] <superdump> how far-flung is gb? :)
[00:44] <cjwatson> superdump: it's close, only takes a handful of minutes
[00:44] <superdump> cool
[00:44] <superdump> thanks
[00:44] <superdump> i hope you're not stressing too much right now :)
[00:45] <cjwatson> superdump: you can find out by looking at /ubuntu/project/trace/ on your mirror, and compare the entry for the mirror (you may have to run 'host' on each entry and compare IP addresses) with that for syowa.canonical.com which is the sync point
[00:46] <superdump> ok
[00:46] <superdump> is this update going to be everything migrated or just the important stuff?
[00:46] <cjwatson> (it's not the master, but looking at the master, cocoplum, is a bit uninformative because the timestamp isn't updated right at the end of the publisher)
[00:47] <cjwatson> everything relevant to the boot reorganisation, so I'm told
[00:47] <superdump> ok, good
[00:47] <superdump> random question - what's happening with ia32libs in ubuntu?
[00:48] <superdump> it seems debian has switched to multilib
[00:48] <superdump> is ubuntu following suit or...?
[00:48] <NoelJB> superdump, what about it?  the goal is to split it up, but for now they had to put some things (audio) back in, as I understand what I saw.
[00:49] <superdump> i wasn't really sure how to handle it in debian as when the switch occurred, i was prompted that i could either install everything (apps and libs) or install the libs or something else
[00:49] <dto> Cynthia: i'm gonna try again in a little while, hope it works.
[00:49] <superdump> i chose to install the libs but it seemed to be pulling in far more libs than i needed and a lot of them were broken during the flux
[00:50] <superdump> i wanted the behaviour to be that libs needed for dependencies of 32-bit apps that i install get installed but no others
[00:50] <cjwatson> superdump: we're skipping over the fiddling that Debian's been doing with ia32-libs, and switching directly to multiarch once it's implemented. We tried to get that into karmic but unfortunately missed
[00:50] <superdump> i didn't want 32-bit versions of every lib i had installed
[00:50] <cjwatson> there seems a fairly reasonable chance that we'll have more or less proper multiarch in karmic+1
[00:51] <Artemis3> interesting
[00:51] <superdump> indeed
[00:51] <cjwatson> we had an extensive set of discussions about it with the relevant Debian people at UDS
[00:51] <DefToneX> total noob here. how do i enabling the command line to start when i reboot?
[00:52] <DefToneX> how do i enable it i mean...can type today.lol
[00:52] <superdump> i would guess they've moved along with it quite a bit by now as it was a couple of months ago or so when they started the switch
[00:52] <cjwatson> Debian isn't doing real multiarch yet
[00:52] <superdump> just splitting stuff up in preparation?
[00:53] <cjwatson> the ia32-libs people in Debian have been experimenting with a different approach which hasn't been all that popular and is likely to be superseded
[00:53] <cjwatson> any package splits you see are just routine things that have been happening over time anyway
[00:53] <superdump> ok
[00:53] <cjwatson> as in extra lib64* versions of things
[00:53] <cjwatson> except for libc-bin and libc-dev-bin, those are conscious multiarch preparation
[00:53] <superdump> i did wonder what they were
[00:53] <cjwatson> but the dpkg patches haven't landed yet
[00:57] <BluesKaj> cjwatson, i manged to rescue most of my desktop install by reinstalling on the karmic partition without any formatting . Some of the apps compiled from source have to be reinstalled but otherwise most is fine. I"ve commented out all the archive repos in order to install some stuff from the ppa's etc
[00:57] <DefToneX> Hey guys how i enabling the command prompt to automatically boot up with a restart?
[00:57] <BluesKaj> but i haven't "updated" yet
[00:58] <jtholmes> DefToneX, you open a terminal window from the Kstart menu at the lower left of you screen
[00:58] <superdump> DefToneX: i'm not sure what you're trying to ask
[00:58] <superdump> do you want a terminal window to open when you start up?
[00:58] <DefToneX> how do i add opening the terminal to start up manager?
[00:59] <jtholmes> DefToneX, that was the ansere to your first question above, the second question is either of the following   shutdown -r now   or  reboot -- -r
[00:59] <BluesKaj> DefToneX, whynot just place it in the panel and click on it
[00:59] <DefToneX> when i reboot i want the command line "window" to start automatically
[01:00] <superdump> openoffice crashed on a document i had earlier
[01:00] <superdump> the apport generated bug report was 163.1MB
[01:01] <jtholmes> DefToneX, ubuntu or kubuntu
[01:01] <superdump> or xubuntu or...
[01:01] <Cynthia> or netbook remix or...
[01:01] <DefToneX> ubuntu
[01:02] <Cynthia> DefToneX: System/Preferences/Startup Applications --> Add --> gnome-terminal
[01:03] <Cynthia> (gnome-terminal is the command, set any Name and Comment)
[01:03] <CydeSwype> ya know...those sorts of dialogs should be a bit more friendly...most people don't know the actual application name...being able to select from a list of all programs that the OS knows about would be better
[01:04] <Cynthia> yeah
[01:04] <CydeSwype> albeit a bit more windows-like
[01:04] <DefToneX> that's what i was looking for! ha....thanks Cynthia love ya
[01:04] <Cynthia> CydeSwype: or provide a list of apps like the Main Menu has
[01:04]  * CydeSwype wonders if there's a blueprint or brainstorm written for that
[01:04] <CydeSwype> Cynthia, exactly
[01:05] <CydeSwype> same with the "create launcher" dialog
[01:05] <DanaG> Activation (wlan0/wireless): access point 'Home' has security, but secrets are required.
[01:05] <DanaG> grr!
[01:05] <CydeSwype> i bet a bunch of people have tried using that and had their eyes glaze over
[01:05] <CydeSwype> it's true...secrets are required...a necessary evil
[01:05] <Cynthia> CydeSwype: right-click application -> add launcher to desktop -> move launcher to required place
[01:05] <DanaG> well, the thing is, it's not asking me for the key.
[01:06] <DanaG> I already gave it the key ages ago.
[01:06] <Cynthia> CydeSwype: but I agree that it's not so intuitive
[01:06] <DanaG> And yet, it's not showing up in the "edit networks" list, eithert.
[01:06] <DanaG> either.
[01:06] <CydeSwype> Cynthia, good point.  that's a good workaround
[01:06] <NoelJB> LOL well that was fun ...
[01:06] <NoelJB> DanaG, Network Manager issue?
[01:06] <DanaG> Yup.
[01:07] <NoelJB> DanaG, I missed the prelude.  Was rebooted spontaneously by that last apt upgrade
[01:07] <CydeSwype> DanaG, passwords in general don't seem to stick in karmic...my ssh and ftp bookmarks in gnome always prompt me for passwords despite my telling them to remember the passwords forever
[01:08] <CydeSwype> have to leave work now...wonder if i should try rebooting (post upgrade) or just leave the lappy on and at work for the night
[01:08] <NoelJB> DanaG, I've done some work on NM and MM lately, but I haven't looked at how the creds are stored.  You could swing by #nm and ask.
[01:08] <CydeSwype> think i'll leave it on...
[01:09] <CydeSwype> see you all
[01:11] <NoelJB> DanaG, I believe that there was just a discussion in #nm related to the authentication agent.  apparently a dbus-glib regression.  not sure if that's the issue you're seeing, but Dan would know.  cjwatson might, too, if he's the Colin whom Ulrik just mentioned.
[01:14] <dto2> odd question. the "my computer" "network" "trash" etc icons have disappeared. the desktop still works fine but those particular icons are somehow zapped. how can i put them back?
[01:14] <dto> blam.
[01:16] <NoelJB> dto, have you checked your settings with gconf-editor?
[01:16] <NoelJB> or gconf2-tool if you prefer.
[01:16] <dto> hmm.
[01:16] <dto> lets see
[01:17] <dto> where might i find that? nautilus/
[01:17] <dto> ah@! thanks
[01:17] <BenCal> I'm trying to recover my system using the live-cd. the installer started. can I access the console from here to start the chroot recovery?
[01:17] <NoelJB> dto, apps/nautilus/desktop
[01:18] <dto> NoelJB: thank you.
[01:18] <NoelJB> dto, welcome :-)
[01:24] <superdump> cjwatson: all up on the sync server now?
[01:32] <superdump> [31d1]: what was your boot time before the initscript changes?
[01:32] <[31d1]> superdump: that was it
[01:32] <superdump> oh
[01:32] <[31d1]> haven't rebooted since they showed up
[01:33] <[31d1]> why? think it will change?
[01:33] <superdump> no idea
[01:33] <CyberKitsune> Ok, so like
[01:33] <CyberKitsune> I did some package upgrades
[01:33] <CyberKitsune> Usplash broke
[01:33] <CyberKitsune> as well as a few other things
[01:33] <MaximLevitsky> after recent update, I don't see the cd disk in nautilus. do you see same?
[01:34] <CyberKitsune> I'm using Kubuntu Karmic, so, No idea
[01:34] <wastrel> some things are broken currently in koala apparently
[01:34] <CyberKitsune> There were some HAL upgrades however
[01:34] <MaximLevitsky> gdu shows it however
[01:42] <MindVirus> [31d1]: I'm proud of you.
[01:42] <MindVirus> [31d1]: We all are.
[01:45] <TLF> hello
[01:45] <TLF> using the live CD, how can i access the migration assistant?
[01:53] <DasEi> after all that wining in #ubuntu , my 686-vm just updated fine, though some recoverable fsck's, quite usual for vm's on fragmented disks
[01:56] <TLF> any clues on migration assistant?
[01:56] <TLF> I'm unable to view it ona lpha5
[01:58] <AirBender> Hello guys
[01:59] <TLF_> hello
[01:59] <TLF_> I was talking about migration assistantç
[02:00] <DefToneX> How do I return my desktop to back when I first installed ubuntu?
[02:00] <AirBender> uhmm interesting..
[02:00] <AirBender> what do you mean with return your desktop to back?
[02:00] <[31d1]> MindVirus: :)
[02:01] <Cynthia> DefToneX: it's better to wait for an answer in the channel first
[02:01] <DefToneX> i want to erase the stuff it saved when i accidentally removed some icons from the task bar
[02:01] <DefToneX> k sorry C
[02:01] <Cynthia> so you want to erase the removal of icons?
[02:01] <Cynthia> i.e. recreate them
[02:02] <AirBender> yeap
[02:02] <DefToneX> i'm pretty sure i want to erase my user settings and have it default back to right after i installed the distro
[02:02] <AirBender> I don-t know a way to undo these kind of changes
[02:02] <AirBender> ahhh
[02:02] <DasEi> resetpanel | DefToneX
[02:02] <DasEi> !resetpanel | DefToneX
[02:02] <AirBender> DefToneX: you can delete the gnome folder under ~/
[02:03] <DasEi> or so
[02:03] <AirBender> interesting...
[02:04] <DasEi> another way could be purge and reinstall ubuntu-desktop
[02:04] <AirBender> I was telling a friend to add his user to vboxusers group under karmik, and he said there isn-t such a group under the gnome users and groups dialog. I have confirmed that the dialog is chowing the users list instead of the gourps list...
[02:05] <AirBender> showing
[02:06] <AirBender> it smells like a strange mistake...
[02:06] <Cynthia> in latest karmic, the Users and Groups shows "an internal error occurred" and doesn't start
[02:06] <superdump> i didn't time it, but it really felt like that booted much quicker
[02:06] <AirBender> uhm so there's definitely something wrong there
[02:07] <superdump> there are some unknown key SYMLINK{} issues though
[02:07] <Cynthia> actually, it's probably not latest anymore, since the archives move a lot
[02:07]  * Cynthia updates
[02:07] <AirBender> sure
[02:07] <AirBender> I'm updating right now
[02:07] <AirBender> :)
[02:07] <AirBender> update-manager failed
[02:07] <Cynthia> I'm apt-getting
[02:08] <Cynthia> the update manager fails with update calculation errors a lot
[02:08] <superdump> hmm
[02:08] <superdump> i haven't had any issues
[02:08] <AirBender> yeap, I'm aptitudeing
[02:08] <AirBender> :)
[02:09] <Cynthia> 64 KB/s on a connection that can handle 500 KB/s down
[02:09] <Cynthia> the archive is being hammered :(
[02:10] <test34> Cynthia, try a different mirror?
[02:11] <Cynthia> United States archives are going to be slightly laggy for Canada eh? Thanks, changed my mirror to a Canadian one
[02:11] <Cynthia> ... but still, 50 KB/s on that one
[02:12] <test34> try another one, and another one, etc;)
[02:12] <NoelJB> superdump, cjwatson says that the SYMLINK{unique} issue is known and ignorable.
[02:12] <AirBender> may be the traffic problem is in your isp
[02:12] <superdump> NoelJB: ok, cool. thanks
[02:12] <test34> true AirBender
[02:13] <AirBender> try httpÑ--speedtest.net
[02:13] <AirBender> wow
[02:13] <AirBender> http://speedtest.net
[02:13] <BotLobsta> does anyone know what specific issues the topic is talking about?
[02:13] <AirBender> and check if you can use the remaining bandwidth
[02:16] <test34> BotLobsta, theres a thread talking about it: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1267183
[02:18] <BotLobsta> thanks
[02:24] <DefToneX> sorry guys my system bugged out...can u give me that command again? i wanted to go back to my desktop like it was when i first installed ubuntu
[02:26] <AirBender> !resetpanel |DefToneX
[02:26] <superdump> does anyone know where the xubuntu artwork devs can be found?
[02:26] <AirBender> this one?
[02:26] <Cynthia> AirBender: now my packages are up-to-date, and a further apt-get update won't download anything
[02:26] <Cynthia> so maybe I can test the speed-test-while-downloading thing tomorrow, but not today
[02:28] <NoelJB> Cynthia, what change are you expecting to see?
[02:28] <AirBender> cool, you can still do the test if you want to check your current speed... but doesn't matter
[02:29] <Cynthia> change of download speed from the mirror
[02:29] <Cynthia> apt-get update took the better of 5 minutes, I think
[02:29] <edgy> Hi, $ ls -l /etc/udev/rules.d/z60_hdparm.rules
[02:29] <edgy> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 15 2009-08-31 05:16 /etc/udev/rules.d/z60_hdparm.rules -> ../hdparm.rules
[02:29] <edgy> this is a dangling link
[02:29] <edgy> is it only me?
[02:29] <DefToneX> thanks ubottu
[02:30] <Cynthia> oh, speedtest.net requires Flash
[02:30] <Cynthia> shall I use Gnash or Adobe? (64-bit)
[02:31] <AirBender> may be... hope to see the days when flash will note be needed anymore
[02:31] <AirBender> I think flash-player alpha is a good option if you want a usable plugin
[02:32] <AirBender> Cynthia: but no the flash-plugin suggested by ubuntu
[02:32] <NoelJB> Cynthia, I use 64-bit Adobe
[02:32] <Cynthia> so flashplugin-nonfree?
[02:32] <Nafai> Are things still broken?
[02:33] <NoelJB> Cynthia, flashplugin-installer
[02:33] <Cynthia> Thank you
[02:33] <AirBender> NoelJB: is this the adobe's alpha?
[02:34] <AirBender> if this gets installed using nspluginwrapper, I would not recommend it
[02:35] <NoelJB> AirBender, me, neither.  I need to check.
[02:35] <Cynthia> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[02:35] <Cynthia>   flashplugin-installer ia32-libs lib32asound2 lib32bz2-1.0 lib32gcc1  lib32ncurses5 lib32stdc++6 lib32v4l-0 lib32z1 libc6-i386 nspluginwrapper
[02:35] <NoelJB> I usually install directly from the Adobe site.
[02:35] <NoelJB> OK, Cynthia, get it direct from the Adobe site.
[02:36] <Cynthia> was 52% downloaded, clearing partial packages and getting it from Adobe then :D
[02:37] <Cynthia> .deb with GDebi says wrong architecture
[02:37]  * Cynthia tries the .tar.gz
[02:37] <barry> anybody know why gnome-terminal would suddenly be eating all my 'n' keys?  no other app seems to be doing this, and no other key seems to be affected.  how weird!
[02:38] <Cynthia> no idea, sorry. gnome-terminal doesn't eat my n's
[02:39] <ali12341> barry: i saw that one time... but i forget what it was. i think a key was stuck down
[02:39] <AirBender> Cynthia: this is the link http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html
[02:39] <AirBender> it's a linux 64 bits pre-release version of flashplayer
[02:39] <ali12341> barry: like ctrl or alt - and not physically stuck down, but stuck down in software, like when you switch context while holding a key
[02:39] <ali12341> so try pressing and releasing all modifiers
[02:39] <AirBender> the best we 64 bits users can get so far
[02:39] <Cynthia> ah
[02:40] <Cynthia> I was getting the usual one
[02:40] <AirBender> this is for 32 bits
[02:41] <AirBender> have you installed flashplayer from adobe before? I mean without using the .deb packages
[02:41] <Cynthia> I have, it usually comes in the form of an install script
[02:41] <NoelJB> AirBender, what is for 32 bits?  I download the tar and just copy the .so into place.
[02:42] <NoelJB> Cynthia, it is just one file.
[02:42] <Cynthia> it came with an install.sh the last time I downloaded it, unless I'm mixing it up with some other software package
[02:42] <AirBender> ok
[02:43] <AirBender> well, as NoelJB said the process isn't difficult, but you have to take care of some symlinks If I remember well
[02:43] <Cynthia> ok, done
[02:44] <Cynthia> sudo cp libflashplayer.so /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
[02:44] <AirBender> yeap
[02:44] <Cynthia> http://www.speedtest.net/result/566314837.png
[02:45] <AirBender> in the past it was needed to make a symlink in a firefox's specific folder I think...
[02:45] <AirBender> excellent
[02:45] <Cynthia> 430 KB/s is much higher than Ubuntu archives' 60 KB/s
[02:45] <Cynthia> which leads me to believe they're just really busy
[02:46] <AirBender> so there is a bit of servers overhead
[02:46] <NoelJB> On mine, it looks like: flashplugin-alternative.so -> /etc/alternatives/firefox-flashplugin which I manually linked to where I put the 64 bit version.
[02:46] <Cynthia> oh right, the alternatives
 you're fine, Cyn
[02:47] <Cynthia> this is just a really temporary install anyway, it will most likely break tomorrow
[02:47] <Cynthia> so I'll bother with the release version :)
[02:47] <NoelJB> :-)
[02:48] <AirBender> mine is broken now...
[02:49] <AirBender> I didn't read the channel's topic
[02:49] <AirBender> XD
[02:50] <Cynthia> I backed everything up with a dd|gzip after zeroing out unused parts of my hard drive
[02:50] <Cynthia> alpha doesn't scare me right now
[02:51] <AirBender> heheh
[02:52] <AirBender> I used to install alpha versions in my machine, but with karmic I'm only testing it on VBox so far...
[02:52] <AirBender> don't have enough time for surprises...
[02:56] <barry> ali12341: weird.  <modifier>-n works but <no-modifier>-n doesn't!  even with a restarted terminal and /only/ in terminal
[03:11] <aboSamoor> this is really useful link for people who suffered problem with booting according to the latest updates.  http://roderick-greening.blogspot.com/2009/09/recover-non-booting-linux-system.html
[03:11] <Nafai> aboSamoor: Thank you muchly
[03:11] <aboSamoor> Nafai: welcome :)
[03:24] <NoelJB> Cynthia, I have a 500GB laptop drive, so I have 5 OS partitions, an swap partition and a shared data partition.
[03:25] <Cynthia> 500 GB on a laptop? I have 300 GB on this desktop
[03:25] <NoelJB> Cynthia, actually, 2x500 internal, plus external.  :-)
[03:26] <Cynthia> Ouch :D If your external holds data as well, I can see why dd|gzip wouldn't work so well
[03:27] <Cynthia>   FFE LP: #427356.
[03:27] <Cynthia>   * Replace hwclock udev rule with an Upstart job.  This has never needed to be a udev rule after all since it doesn't access the hardware!
[03:27] <NoelJB> Cynthia, actually, I did an initial dd to create a dup drive, and I have a script that backs up all of the inactive partitions to the clone drive.
[03:27] <Cynthia> hwclock == 'hardware' clock, though, no?
[03:27] <NoelJB> Cynthia, my desktop has about 5TB but working with these things is what I do for a living, so ...
[03:27] <Cynthia> NoelJB: true
[03:28] <Cynthia> I'm just an enthusiast
[03:28]  * Amaranth has 160GB in his laptop, 500GB in his desktop, and a 1TB external drive
[03:28] <Amaranth> I've love to get 500GB in my laptop but I'm worried about power usage
[03:29] <Cynthia> 300 GB, 200 GB external. But I don't have much data. Most of it is Java programs, for which I can delete the binaries before backing up, and my handwriting font which compresses well
[03:30] <Cynthia> speaking of Java, OpenJDK 64-bit has no plugin, or am I dreaming?
[03:30] <Amaranth> yeah, I don't really need 500GB in my laptop but git checkouts and builds of basically every component of a modern GNOME desktop take up a lot of room
[03:30] <NoelJB> Cynthia, not sure, I'd have to look.  I do have a 64-bit java plugin from Sun.
[03:30] <Amaranth> and it's a dual-boot system with OS X so...
[03:31] <Amaranth> OS X apps take up a _lot_ of space
[03:31] <Cynthia> I've never used Mac OS, so I wouldn't know
[03:32] <superdump> indeed they do
[03:32] <Amaranth> Cynthia: It's almost as bad as Windows
[03:32] <superdump> space just seems to disappear
[03:32] <Amaranth> It's like every OS X app is Adobe Reader as far as space used
[03:32] <Amaranth> (Adobe Reader on Windows uses like 700MB of space)
[03:33] <ajmitch> that sounds a little excessive
[03:33] <Cynthia> Windows Vista+ is worse because all the apps are in the manifest area (Windows\WinSxS) and all the icons have like 10 resolutions in them
[03:33] <[31d1]> holy crap http://lrrr.us/boot.png superdump
[03:33] <Nafai> Is there a way to boot a live cd into just a shell prompt and not graphical mode?
[03:34] <superdump> [31d1]: eeeeehehehee :) nice
[03:34] <Cynthia> [31d1]: congrats on 6 seconds
[03:34] <[31d1]> that's nuts
[03:34] <superdump> the 74MB/s is the peak disk throughput right?
[03:34] <[31d1]> it used to be 10-12 in jaunty
[03:34] <NoelJB> I am nowhere near that.
[03:34] <Cynthia> Nafai: try using the boot options (F6) to add 'single'
[03:34] <superdump> it was 144MB/s last time i think
[03:34] <NoelJB> that's measured from when?
[03:34] <superdump> kind of interesting
[03:34] <Cynthia> single-user might give you a root prompt
[03:35] <[31d1]> boot to gdm prompt afaik
[03:35] <Nafai> Cynthia: Hrm, well I kind of need network
[03:35] <NoelJB> [31d1], starts when?  when grub starts loading the image?
[03:35] <[31d1]> yeah 74MB/s isn't that great
[03:35] <aboSamoor> [31d1]: and how was that done ? I mean the 6 seconds, SSD ?
[03:35] <[31d1]> whenever bootchart starts normally NoelJB
[03:35] <Cynthia> eh... all the non-singleuser runlevels will have both network and gdm, I think
[03:35] <NoelJB> [31d1], OK
[03:36] <[31d1]> aboSamoor: yeah i got one of those X-25 dopesauce drives
[03:36] <Cynthia> (@Nafai above)
[03:36] <superdump> [31d1]: i'm guessing the reads are spread out much better or something so there doesn't need to be as much data read at once
[03:36] <Nafai> Ok
[03:36] <[31d1]> superdump: hmm, maybe
[03:37] <Cynthia> There's no seeking on a solid-state drive
[03:37] <Cynthia> so readahead can read from everywhere at once
[03:38]  * superdump sleeps
[03:39] <[31d1]> man, now i really want to figure out this dbs nonsense with my window manager that i think makes login->desktop extra slow
[03:39] <[31d1]> dbus
[03:42] <[31d1]> i want to understand bootchart a bit better
[03:43] <[31d1]> its hard to tell what's taking time for itself, and what's just making a line because it is running
[03:43] <Cynthia>   * debian/sreadahead.upstart:    - Start before mounting filesystems.
[03:43] <Cynthia> Is this why I see "/dev/sda{1,2,5,6,7}: No such file or directory" on boot?
[03:57] <EruditeHermit> err
[03:57] <EruditeHermit> lol
[03:57] <EruditeHermit> I feel lucky my computer boots
[03:57] <Cynthia> congrats :)
[03:59] <CyberKitsune> lol
[03:59] <CyberKitsune> well
[03:59] <bucky> i don't have a lo in ifconfig after the last upgrade anyone else have this?
[04:00] <CyberKitsune> It seems that Kubuntu users were unaffected by the boot issues.
[04:00] <EruditeHermit> bucky, I have lo
[04:00] <StrawberryBatman> y0 guys, how do I find out if my hardware supports KMS?
[04:00] <bucky> also said something about can't write to /shm and pts... i think it has to do with the hal updates
[04:00] <EruditeHermit> CyberKitsune, what are the boot issues?
[04:00] <CyberKitsune> It doesn't boot in some cased
[04:00] <nostahl> woot im getting an ipod touch in a few days
[04:00] <EruditeHermit> StrawberryBatman, what is your hardware?
[04:00] <CyberKitsune> cases*
[04:00] <StrawberryBatman> I get a new graphics glitch when I enable composite that shouldn't be there and I need to know what it is.
[04:01] <StrawberryBatman> My hardware is t40 standard
[04:01] <StrawberryBatman> which means mobile radeon 2500
[04:01] <StrawberryBatman> p3
[04:01] <EruditeHermit> StrawberryBatman, so no by default
[04:01] <CyberKitsune> Oh, wait
[04:01] <CyberKitsune> ISSUE
[04:01] <StrawberryBatman> What, I thought kms for radeon was into the experimental stage
[04:01] <CyberKitsune> After upgrading Kubuntu 9.10's packages
[04:01] <EruditeHermit> StrawberryBatman, yes it is, but you have to enable it
[04:02] <CyberKitsune> Usplash doesn't work
[04:02] <StrawberryBatman> how do I enable it?
[04:02] <CyberKitsune> anymore
[04:02] <EruditeHermit> CyberKitsune, thats what I have right now, but it still boots
[04:02] <CyberKitsune> Yeah
[04:02] <EruditeHermit> StrawberryBatman, do me a favour type glxinfo | grep renderer
[04:02] <EruditeHermit> into a terminal
[04:03] <EruditeHermit> CyberKitsune, thats not that big a deal
[04:03] <StrawberryBatman> OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R100 (RV200 4C57) 20090101 AGP 4x x86/MMX/SSE2 TCL
[04:03] <EruditeHermit> could be a lot worse
[04:03] <CyberKitsune> except, you can't Alt-F1 into the console since Usplash fails
[04:03] <EruditeHermit> StrawberryBatman, you need to add radeon.modeset=1 to the kernel commandline
[04:04] <StrawberryBatman> I don't understand it, but before I added composite disable to my xorg.conf, a lot of software was glitching.. notifications, task manager, and everything composited would turn into gibberish on my screen.
[04:06] <test34> topic
[04:07] <[31d1]> yeah topic seems overly pessimistic now
[04:08] <test34> topic is out of date
[04:08] <test34> (for me anyways)
[04:09] <dto> dude, that wiped out my file with joystick support. i get the old version of console.lisp from github now.
[04:09] <dto> that's ok. i'll grab it from launchpad
[04:09] <StrawberryBatman> so it should look like " linux	/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-10-generic root=UUID=6longnumber ro   quiet splash radeon.modeset=1" ?
[04:10] <[31d1]> oh neat all 6 virtual terminals or consoles or whatever they are called work again
[04:12] <[31d1]> but less fonty goodness than before
[04:12] <Cynthia> hmm, XChat crashed along with my whole session :D and usplash is gone from the boot process
[04:12] <[31d1]> i swear unicode used to work in them
[04:20] <IdleOne> Hey what's the status of Intel Corporation 82865G Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02) in karmic?
[04:20] <IdleOne> working is is UXA still broken?
[04:20] <IdleOne> or is*
[04:21] <Cynthia> I have "Intel Corporation 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)" and it works accelerated in Karmic; Compiz used to be slow in Jaunty but is now super fast
[04:22] <IdleOne> Cynthia: so should I give it a shot and upgrade?
[04:23] <IdleOne> I have no issue with breaking or having to re-install if needed
[04:23] <IdleOne> but I rather not heh
[04:23] <Cynthia> Get the alpha5 LiveCD if you can't handle breakage
[04:23] <Cynthia> test it out there, then get back to Jaunty
[04:24] <IdleOne> well according to topic I better not
[04:24] <IdleOne> I'll wait. thank you for your answer Cynthia
[04:24] <Cynthia> The Alpha5 LiveCD is stable
[04:25] <Cynthia> Just, don't go to Update Manager yet :D
[04:31] <AirBender> wow, I think karmic is booting almost at twice the speed It did some days ago...
[04:31] <AirBender> unfortunately once you login, all the speed goes to hell XD
[04:32] <BluesKaj> well, don't update or you won't getback in
[04:33] <AirBender> hehe, actually I didn't read the topic before updating....
[04:33] <AirBender> and had to solve the mess...
[04:34] <AirBender> but now is booting ok, ignoring all the warnings, and an issue with the timestamp of the filesystem...may be related to VBox...
[04:35] <BluesKaj> yeah, mydesktop suffered majaor trauma, which is being fixed now..I hope
[04:36] <Cynthia> filesystem last mount time is another issue
[04:36] <AirBender> do you have the same problem Cynthia ?
[04:36] <AirBender> I thought it was related to VBox...
[04:36] <Cynthia> I had it earlier today, and I do every time I reinstall Karmic
[04:36] <AirBender> ok
[04:37] <Cynthia> Mount time is in the future, 4 hours or so
[04:37] <Cynthia> it's a timezone problem
[04:37] <AirBender> it seems to be related to a non UTC timestamping
[04:37] <AirBender> I mean to a UTC timestamp
[04:37] <AirBender> which at boot time seems like the future
[04:39] <AirBender> yeap
[04:39] <BluesKaj> haven't updated this laptop, and I won't for a day or 2
[04:39] <AirBender> it's just the difference between my timezone and UTC
[04:42] <Dai> i was considering taking the plunge yesterday.  i'm glad i didn't
[04:46] <BluesKaj> I recovered most of my desktop, just non-repos apps missing
[04:47] <AirBender> ok, gotta sleep now
[04:48] <AirBender> Good Night Ubunter@s !
[04:49] <vasuvi> I'm getting weird errors since my last dist-upgrade, and think I have traced it to Upstart.  What's the best way to downgrade it back to 0.6.3-1?
[04:50] <vasuvi> Weird errors on bootup that is; namely, it wants to run fsck after the partitions are already mounted
[04:52] <Kubou> I just installed updates for Kubuntu 9.04 and KDE crashed... Is there a way to revert to working OS?
[04:52] <Cynthia> for 9.04 questions please see #ubuntu
[04:52] <Cynthia> this is for 9.10 Karmic Koala
[04:53] <Kubou> sry was told to go here... misunderstanding
[04:53]  * Cynthia shrugs
[04:58] <vasuvi> ok, just downloaded the older version from the mirror and used 'dpkg -i' to manually downgrade it; hopefully this will solve the boot problem
[05:17] <DanaG1> (eth0): canceled DHCP transaction, dhcp client pid 7310     -- Error received: Numerical result out of range
[05:17] <DanaG1> -- Original message: type=0x19 length=56 flags=<REQUEST,ACK> sequence-nr=1253074410 pid=4201609
[05:21] <DanaG> argh!  stupid NetworkManager.
[05:25] <sunshinepants> a few hours later, and I'm recovered from the upstart switch over
[05:25] <sunshinepants> fast boot time
[05:25] <sunshinepants> faster anyway
[05:26] <dto> sunshine, what did you switch to?
[05:27] <sunshinepants> installed from the daily x86, updated with safe-upgrade
[05:27] <sunshinepants> I got a 500gb wd passport disk for my stuff. this thing is awesome.
[05:28] <sunshinepants> writing to it is tolerable, and read times are almost twice as fast
[05:29] <dto> cool :)
[05:29] <sunshinepants> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Passport-Essential-WDME5000TN/dp/B001F9LY14
[05:30] <dto> what's the interface? esata?
[05:30] <DanaG> NetworkManager: <info>  Activation (wlan0/wireless): access point 'Home' has security, but secrets are required.
[05:30] <DanaG> ARGH!
[05:30] <DanaG> passport is 2.5" -- usb2.0 only.
[05:30] <DanaG> ARGH, damn networkmanager!
[05:30] <DanaG> It refuses to use the key I gave it for my network... and then also fails to ask me to enter the key.
[05:31] <sunshinepants> regular usb 2.0.  my laptop.  thing has no esata.  had trouble with an esata card in the past, so yea
[05:32] <sunshinepants> network manager..
[05:32] <sunshinepants> I'm working on a clippy type character that pops up and says "here, let me manage your networks"
[05:32] <Cynthia> did someone say Clippy?
[05:32] <Cynthia> Noooooo!!
[05:33] <EruditeHermit> die clippy
[05:33] <EruditeHermit> err
[05:33] <EruditeHermit> I mean
[05:33] <EruditeHermit> hi
[05:33] <Cynthia> Common typo
[05:33] <EruditeHermit> my boot times are getting slower and slower
[05:33] <EruditeHermit> =p
[05:33] <EruditeHermit> yesterday it was at 53 seconds
[05:33] <EruditeHermit> now at 1:08
[05:34] <DanaG> hah, segfault in polkit_check_authorization.
[05:34] <EruditeHermit> and jaunty was at 30-40 seconds
[05:34] <sunshinepants> the # of fashion images that usb disk has on amazon. thorough
[05:35] <sunshinepants> jauntyness
[05:35] <DanaG> hah, "available to all users" is GRAYED OUT!
[05:35] <DanaG> Stupid networkmanager.
[05:36] <DanaG> hah, and it says "networkmanager is not running..."
[05:40] <DanaG> sudo start network-manager
[05:40] <DanaG> wow, that sucks... there's such inconsistency.  Is it networkmanager?  NetworkManager?  Network-Manager?
[05:41] <DanaG> now I just need to fix that danged "last write time is in the future".
[05:43] <bucky> DanaG, which file got written to in the future?
[05:43] <DanaG> Superblock.
[05:43] <DanaG> So, it forces a fsck every time I boot.
[05:45] <sunshinepants> DanaG: x64?
[05:45] <DanaG> Yup.
[05:46] <Nafai> Yeah, that's one of the errors I'm getting
[05:47] <sunshinepants> DanaG: have seen same stuff.  staying on x86 and only using x64 for testing
[05:47] <nostahl> there we go, got webserver all up and working on a fresh install of karmic
[05:47] <nostahl> woot
[05:47] <Cynthia> nostahl: beware, it'll break tomorrow
[05:47] <nostahl> why
[05:47] <sunshinepants> DanaG: this is with a dell d830
[05:47] <Cynthia> I'm mainly kidding, but such are alphas
[05:47] <nostahl> hehe
[05:47] <nostahl> everyone's broke this morning
[05:48] <Cynthia> Aye
[05:48] <nostahl> i probably wont update now untill release maybe
[05:48] <nostahl> though i do need to get evolution fixed
[05:49] <nostahl> wont let me setup email account
[05:49] <nostahl> any ideas?
[05:50] <DanaG> Linux vogon.csc.calpoly.edu 2.6.25.3-18.fc9.i686 #1 SMP Tue May 13 05:38:53 EDT 2008 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux
[05:50] <DanaG> hmm, nevermind.
[05:50] <DanaG> Linux E iteBook 2.6.31-10-generic #32-Ubuntu SMP Thu Sep 10 23:29:56 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[05:50] <DanaG> that's me/
[05:50] <DanaG> wait...
[05:51] <DanaG> I'm not UTC!
[05:51] <DanaG> That's wrong!
[05:51] <ajmitch> because that's the date the kernel was compiled
[05:51] <Cynthia> that was the build time of Linux
[05:51] <DanaG> ah.
[05:51] <Cynthia> Sep 10 :D
[05:51] <DanaG> silly me.
[05:51] <DanaG> =þ
[05:57]  * milos_ can't boot into desktop cause of nvidia and xorg. Must use nv instead :(
[05:58] <bucky> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/e2fsprogs/+bug/427822  <- superblock in the future
[06:03] <sewa> hi, is a woraround to boot karmic?
[06:04] <sewa> only i have now is a read-only file system
[06:05] <Cynthia> What error do you get?
[06:06] <sewa> wait
[06:06] <sewa> a sec
[06:06] <sewa> :B
[06:07] <sewa> well
[06:07] <sewa> i've downgraded initramfs and initscripts to ubuntu45 and ubuntu2 builds respectively
[06:07] <sewa> and now boots to X, but lemme check dmesg for errors
[06:14] <sewa> Cynthia,
[06:14] <Cynthia> Hi
[06:14] <sewa> udevd unknowkey symlink.... /lib/udev/...
[06:14] <sewa> udevd NAME="%k" is superfluous and break kernel
[06:15] <sewa> can not read etc udev rules z60 hdparm
[06:15] <Cynthia> the symlink{unique} thing shouldn't break boot
[06:15] <sewa> dev sda1 unexepcted inconsistency run fsck mannualy
[06:15] <Cynthia> neither should the rules
[06:15] <sewa> fuse: failed ti create temporary directory
[06:15] <Cynthia> though,
[06:15] <Cynthia> bug 427822
[06:15] <Cynthia> just run 'fsck /' and 'init 6'
[06:17] <DanaG> yay, got new kernel with fix of superblock write in future.
[06:17] <sewa> ok
[06:17] <sewa> #33?
[06:18] <sewa> dunno if is a bug but now (thanks to you Cynthia) i can boot to X, but when i open firefox i'velost all my conf
[06:19] <sewa> now i have a default theme (but in config i have setted the theme i've use)
[06:19] <sewa> sorry my english btw
[06:19] <Cynthia> I can manage to understand you
[06:19] <Cynthia> :)
[06:19] <sewa> thanks
[06:19] <Cynthia> Your theme works, but Firefox has been reset?
[06:19] <Cynthia> The filesystem check may have removed bad files
[06:23] <nostahl> anyone know a fix for evolution not allowing setup of email accounts
[06:25] <sewa> thanks Cynthia
[06:25] <sewa> regards from Chile
[06:26] <Cynthia> You're welcome, from Canada
[06:30] <mjbrooks> I just spent half the day with a hosed system after who know what came in an update this morning... things are still wonky
[06:31] <Cynthia> yeah
[06:31] <mjbrooks> I'd boot and there'd be a fsck error and it would get stuck, I'd fix that and get into the logon screen but no mouse or keyboard
[06:31] <nostahl> cynthia do you know of a fix for evolution
[06:31] <Cynthia> nostahl: no, never used evolution
[06:32] <Cynthia> mjbrooks: you are not alone, I got both of those errors
[06:32] <Cynthia> now usplash is gone, but my system... works'ish
[06:32] <mjbrooks> resoled yet, because even though I got in a whole bunch of errors flew by
[06:33] <mjbrooks> ah
[06:33] <mjbrooks> trolling the bug DB now
[06:33] <Cynthia> Don't you mean trawling? :)
[06:33] <Cynthia> I'm sure the devs don't want people acting like trolls in Launchpad
[06:33] <mjbrooks> lol
[06:34] <mjbrooks> so you were getting the filesystem errors too?
[06:35] <Cynthia> Yes
[06:35] <mjbrooks> mine were about the last access time being in the future, but the dates were wrong
[06:35] <Cynthia> At least, the filesystem future one
[06:35] <mjbrooks> yeah
[06:35] <mjbrooks> so it wasn't just me
[06:35] <Cynthia> Indeed it wasn't. #ubuntu+1 was buzzing today with the same report from many users
[06:36] <mjbrooks> happen to catch a bug number for it?
[06:39] <Cynthia> bug 327822
[06:39] <Cynthia> bug 427822
[06:43] <mjbrooks> thanks
[06:43] <ripps> Hey, what's this? Software store is in my updates queue
[06:43] <EruditeHermit> yeah
[06:43] <Cynthia> https://launchpad.net/software-store
[06:43] <EruditeHermit> its part of a default install
[06:44] <mac_v> ripps: that will replace add/remove...
[06:44] <ripps> I still have add/remove in my app menu, when will it be replaced?
[06:45] <DanaG> http://picpaste.com/EliteBook-karmic-20090915-6.png
[06:45] <Cynthia> Probably not in Karmic
[06:45] <DanaG> argh, that's even without the 'sleep'.
[06:45] <pwnguin> high disk use, low throughput
[06:46] <DanaG> yeah.
[06:46] <pwnguin> also a fsck
[06:46] <Cynthia> DanaG: so much time in modprobe and blkid :(
[06:46] <pwnguin> schroot?
[06:47] <DanaG> yeah, I have it set up so I can chroot to jaunty from karmic, and vice versa.... but for some reason, it insists on setting it up on startup, instead of on demand.
[06:48] <mjbrooks> I wonder if the keyboard thing flowed from that or if it was a separate thing
[06:49] <pwnguin> DanaG: how fragmented is your filesystem?
[06:49] <DanaG> I'm not sure.  How do I find out?
[06:49] <pwnguin> carefully
[06:49] <Cynthia> lol.
[06:49] <mac_v> lol
[06:50] <DanaG> nerdy response to the joke:  I meant "by what means", not "in what manner".
[06:50] <pwnguin> im just saying, you dont want to break things
[06:50] <pwnguin> there's a program called filefrag
[06:50] <mac_v> anyone tried e2fs frag?
[06:50] <pwnguin> it might be part of ext utils
[06:51] <mac_v> or is it e2fsdefrag ?
[06:51] <DanaG> I'm on ext4, though.
[06:51] <Cynthia> http://www2.lut.fi/~ilonen/ext3_fragmentation.html
[06:51] <DanaG> oh yeah, I do have data=journal set, by the way.  I'm hoping it'll improve file integrity.
[06:51] <mac_v> yeah its supposed to defrag ext4
[06:51] <pwnguin> i wouldn't nessecarily defrag
[06:52] <DanaG> How do I _check_ fragmentation?
[06:52] <pwnguin> filefrag
[06:52] <pwnguin> e2fsprogs
[06:52] <Cynthia> actually, never mind my link
[06:52] <Cynthia> try http://www2.lut.fi/~ilonen/fibmap.pl directly
[06:52] <Cynthia> usage: chmod a+x fibmap.pl && ./fibmap.pl /PATH
[06:53] <DanaG> Configurator ran OK; FIBMAP is 1; BLOCK_SIZE is 4096
[06:53] <DanaG> No non-contiguous files found!
[06:53] <DanaG> No contiguous files found!
[06:53] <DanaG> hah, that's with no parameters.
[06:53] <Cynthia> :D
[06:53] <DanaG> Shouldn't it tell you usage in that case?
[06:53] <Cynthia> Probably no files in your working directory
[06:53]  * DanaG slaps the writer with a fish.
[06:53] <Cynthia> The script is not very polished, the author said
[06:53] <DanaG> I ran it from /home/dana.
[06:53] <DanaG> I'll check it on root.
[06:53]  * Cynthia nods
[06:54] <[31d1]> All your quantum are good
[06:54] <[31d1]> quantum files, even
[06:54] <Cynthia> All your quantum are belong to us?
[06:54] <pwnguin> with respect to boot, you want the readahead file list
[06:55] <DanaG> readahead has been replaced by sreadahead, "optimized for ssds."
[06:56] <DanaG> Too bad I don't have an SSD.
[06:56] <pwnguin> same concept
[06:56] <pwnguin> different sorting
[06:57] <veiz> anyone install Tor on Karmic ?
[06:57] <veiz> it told me 'libevent1 >=1.3e needed', but I have 1.4.x installed
[06:57] <veiz> I added a Jaunty repository.
[06:57] <veiz> I know the official support is only Jaunty for ubuntu. any workaround? Since this libevent1 problem, can not build from scratch
[06:57] <DanaG> I sure hope that script isn't crossing filesystem boundaries.
[06:57] <ripps> Hmm... now I'm going to have to make a black-white version of the software store icon for my black-white icon theme
[06:57] <DasEi> veiz : hm in jaunty I had to use the ibex repos
[06:58] <pwnguin> heh
[06:58] <pwnguin> sudo filefrag performance.mov
[06:58] <pwnguin> performance.mov: 4333 extents found, perfection would be 10 extents
[06:58] <Cynthia> nice fragmentation there, pwnguin
[06:58] <pwnguin> anything i download from the internet ends up like that
[06:59] <Cynthia> I'll try to make a bootchart chart
[06:59] <veiz> DasEi, emmmm, more details? ibex for tor ? or libevent?
[07:00] <DanaG> argh, I can't tell what the perl script is reading.
[07:00] <DanaG> Does it stop at filesystem boundaries?  It had better, or else it's rather a failure.
[07:00] <DasEi> veiz : the repo, was a inline ibex one, but worked flawless with apt then
[07:00] <DasEi> second, fishing the line
[07:00] <pwnguin> why trust a perl script to rread your filesystem raw?
[07:01] <veiz> DasEi, let/me try it first, thanks
[07:01] <DanaG> argh, perl doesn't seem to have an equivalent of sh -x.
[07:02] <DanaG> screw that.
[07:04] <veiz> DasEi, same error, libevent1 (>=1.3e), can not install it
[07:05] <pwnguin> why not something like "cat /etc/readahead | xargs filefrag" ?
[07:05] <DasEi> veiz : I just looked up again, there is a jaunty repo, too meanwhile , firing up vm to see myself now
[07:06] <veiz> DasEi, thank you
[07:06] <AlanBell> is it safe to go back in the karmic waters again yet?
[07:12] <mjbrooks> AlanBell, not until Oct 29
[07:12] <AlanBell> lol
[07:12] <Cynthia> http://picpaste.com/voltorb-karmic-20090916-1.png
[07:12] <AlanBell> I see some chat at 04:00 about the topic being overly pessimistic
[07:13] <Cynthia> The archive pretty much works right now
[07:13] <Cynthia> I did an apt-get update/grade before rebooting with Bootchart
[07:13] <AlanBell> great, thanks
[07:14] <mjbrooks> 23 seconds... pffft that's forever
[07:14] <Cynthia> mjbrooks: :)
[07:14] <Cynthia> at least better than 1:03 min
[07:14] <mjbrooks> how was that chart made?
[07:14] <mjbrooks> I want one!
[07:14] <mjbrooks> lol
[07:14] <Cynthia> wpa-supplicant seems superfluous when I don't even have wireless in the house :(
[07:15] <Cynthia> sudo apt-get install bootchart && sudo init 6
[07:15] <Cynthia> after reboot, the file is in /var/log/bootchart/ as hostname-karmic-yyyymmdd-N.png
[07:15] <mjbrooks> ooooh, if only I had the balls to reboot... after today, I may never reboot again ;)
[07:15] <Cynthia> :)
[07:16] <Cynthia> I'd say an apt-get update *right now* is safe
[07:16] <mjbrooks> it's offering me another kernel :/
[07:16] <Cynthia> no guarantees though, a dev may commit a broken package during that time
[07:17] <DasEi> lol, not an hour and again updates running ..what a hot stuff
[07:17] <Cynthia> DasEi: who? :P
[07:17] <mjbrooks> well I'll do it once this backup completes... should be about an hour
[07:18] <Cynthia> cool
[07:18] <EruditeHermit> anyone tested the latest kernel update?
[07:19] <mjbrooks> I need a backup as when the system broke I had no access to my files... I ecryptfs-ed my home partition
[07:19] <DasEi> veiz , Cynthia : I want to follow veiz and started vm, added a repo and then of course update, less an hour ago sys was updated/graded, now it agin pulls down 10 MB..
[07:19] <Cynthia> Looks like what I did
[07:20] <Cynthia> er, got*
[07:20] <mjbrooks> I'm renaming my host to badkarma
[07:21] <EruditeHermit> are they getting rid of usplash btw?
[07:21] <Cynthia> I have a Pokémon name theme in the house; this host is usually named jolteon, after how fast it goes, but I renamed it voltorb because it's highly unstable at the moment
[07:21] <EruditeHermit> do they want to start X so early that xsplash is all that we see
[07:22] <DasEi> veiz : yes is a bug so far, searching launchpad for it now
[07:22] <Cynthia> EruditeHermit: x11-common is S70 in the boot sequence, so it starts after usplash
[07:22] <EruditeHermit> Cynthia, is the current usplash not starting just a bug
[07:23] <EruditeHermit> not a change that was planned
[07:23] <tjr> are the boot problems from yesterday not quite fixed yet?
[07:23] <Q-FUNK> hey jono! :)
[07:23] <mjbrooks> EruditeHermit, probably... there was major breakage
[07:23] <Q-FUNK> tjr: not fixed. fsck fails and a few other dodgy things.
[07:23] <veiz> DasEi, yeah, I saw the bug several days ago, someone is working on it?
[07:24] <Cynthia> EruditeHermit @ usplash bug: I have no idea
[07:24] <tjr> Q-FUNK: ok, I still just get a black screen after updating today but I'll wait some more then
[07:24] <DasEi> veiz : few posts, DasEi loading..
[07:24] <mjbrooks> tjr, black screen? you have nvidia?
[07:24] <jono> hey Q-FUNK
[07:24] <tjr> no intel
[07:24] <Q-FUNK> I'm really wondering what got into slangasek's mind to allow that major init.d script dumping session to get a feeeze exception. :(
[07:25] <tjr> mjbrooks: and I think it happens much earlier than when starting X, more like when the bootup progressbar usually starts filling
[07:25] <mjbrooks> tjr, odd
[07:26]  * mjbrooks  rebeer
[07:26] <tjr> mjbrooks: ok that doesn't sound good ;) maybe easier to just reinstall alpha 5 and go from there again
[07:29] <DasEi> veiz : bfore  syncinc from Debian, I'll try , though uuh trust : https://launchpad.net/~brcha/+archive/ppa/+build/1085545
[07:29] <DasEi> veiz : before  syncing from Debian, I'll try *
[07:30] <veiz> DasEi, wow, it's lpia arch~ lol
[07:30] <veiz> DasEi, i'm under i386 still~
[07:31] <veiz> DasEi, yeah, see there is a i386:)
[07:32] <veiz> DasEi, cooooool, no dependency to libevent1 (>=1.3e)
[07:32] <DasEi> veiz : got it ?
[07:32] <veiz> DasEi, yeah, under installation:)
[07:33] <DasEi> the damn vm wants to be rebooted again, but  --dry-run found no complains
[07:34] <veiz> DasEi, wow, it based on new libc6, so, i need to install that first:)  really thanks!
[07:36] <DasEi> veiz : anyway tor's security concept is very nice and I think this should be fixed, there are some on, the bug is known, but the altered tor deb then has to be verified by the tor people first then
[07:38] <veiz> DasEi, not familiar with the package delivery procedure, but I saw someone (maybe upstream maintainers) told the official tor in Jaunty is out of date, need to update to the latest one, who (downstream) should decided it?
[07:40] <veiz> reboot after libc6 upgrade:)
[07:40] <DasEi> veiz: to verify the integrity of soft, apps uses pgp keys. if third parties are involved, the got to sign the debs. if a deb has to be altered to fit in next release, the tor people have to check it first, before they give their amen, thats the story behind
[07:40] <DasEi> apps = apt *
[07:51] <indus> so yesterday's breakdown been fixed yet?
[07:51] <milos_> no. according to topic
[07:53] <tobixen> it seems to be going from bad to worse, first I could only observe X being broken, after next upgrade the wireless failed working, and now I also get quite many ugly error messages on boot
[07:53] <mjbrooks> tobixen, close your eyes when booting
[07:53] <tobixen> ;)
[07:54] <DasEi> veiz ?
[07:54] <Q-FUNK> some people need to revisit the meaning of Feature Freeze.  quickly.
[07:55] <tobixen> My old laptop is running gentoo, and it's also without X and wifi after a failed gentoo upgrade.  I should probably see if I could kick it back into life ;-)
[07:55] <indus> any devs here?
[07:55] <indus> cjwatson: hello you there?
[08:00] <ior3k> wow, the builds are still broken?
[08:01] <jussi01> indus: really, just ask your question, pinging people randomly isnt the way to go, nor is it often appreciated.
[08:01] <DasEi> veiz: I got it to run after tsocks was installed, also up (and working)
[08:02] <indus> jussi01: i know,only yesterday night i was talking to him about the breakage, so was wonderting if he is around
[08:02] <ior3k> my system is back up, though no usplash now
[08:02] <indus> ior3k: hi
[08:02] <ior3k> hey indus
[08:02] <ior3k> and gdm even works again
[08:03] <ior3k> so it could be worse
[08:03] <indus> ior3k: so things beetter now?
[08:03] <ior3k> yeah, much better
[08:03] <ior3k> I'm getting some strange errors when boot starts
[08:03] <ior3k> udev related, it seems
[08:03] <ior3k> but other than that, everything seems to be working fine
[08:04] <indus> ior3k: when did u get the updates?
[08:04] <DasEi> it's a funny thought, being a human developer doing a typo, then the whole bunch of karmic users sit on the floor until it's foud / repo updated, hehe
[08:04] <AlanBell> I was bold and did an update
[08:04] <DasEi> found
[08:04] <AlanBell> I am now in text mode :-(
[08:04] <DasEi> AlanBell: can you sudo ?
[08:05] <ior3k> indus: about 8 hours ago, all the dependency problems seem to have been fixed
[08:05] <qzio> im too in text mode...
[08:05] <AlanBell> DasEi: yes
[08:05] <qzio> and my wlan isnt working. ifconfig wlan0 up gives errors :(
[08:05] <AlanBell> I did sudo dhclient to get my network up
[08:05] <ior3k> I was in text mode for the whole day yesterday, but then things started working after this last update
[08:05] <tobixen> i'm also in console mode, and without wifi. tried to update some few minutes ago
[08:05] <AlanBell> and the high res fbcon seems to have gone too
[08:05] <indus> ior3k: any idea if that apt d bus error is fixed too?
[08:05] <DasEi> AlanBell: sudo init 1 , then dpkg > repair packages , else reconfigure graphics
[08:05] <qzio> and the new super-wierd-stupid grub2 doesnt give me access to the menu, it just boots the first alternative without any possibility to select another kernel
[08:05] <tobixen> maybe my mirror is out of sync
[08:06] <indus> qzio: press esc for that
[08:06] <ior3k> indus: what error is that?
[08:06] <qzio> indus: yes i tried that...........
[08:06] <qzio> didnt help
[08:06] <indus> ior3k: apt-get update was giving a dbus error
[08:06] <ior3k> ah, I should add that I changed my mirrors to archive.ubuntu.com
[08:06] <qzio> still boots without any possibility what so ever
[08:06] <indus> ior3k: so not sure if i can update even
[08:06] <ior3k> indus: did you try starting dbus manually?
[08:07] <indus> ior3k: hmm no :)
[08:08] <qzio> how should the /etc/default/grub file look like to enable selecting something other then the first alternative during boot?
[08:08] <indus> ior3k: iam at work now, so ill be trying all things
[08:08] <indus> ior3k: iam guessing upstart caused all services to not start auto
[08:08] <ior3k> indus: yeah, but that was fixed 8 hours ago
[08:08] <ior3k> (at least for me)
[08:09] <ior3k> (and if things didn't break again)
[08:09] <indus> ior3k: cool
[08:09] <ior3k> now I'm not updating until the topic is changed :)
[08:09] <indus> ior3k: i guess cj went to sleep after that
[08:10] <ior3k> well, at the time he said there was lots of stuff building yet, so he didn't recomend updating
[08:10] <ior3k> then I left and I don't know what happened afterwards
[08:10] <ior3k> anyone here with official word from the developers?
[08:11] <indus> ior3k: probably safe to wait mor etime
[08:12] <indus> i guess wait till topic changes, i was hoping the forums would have it stickied or something
[08:12] <indus> many will be taking the plunge around alpha 6, we dont need many with broken systems
[08:16] <DasEi> qzio: you can change the default entry to the number you want to boot
[08:18] <qzio> DasEi: thanks, but i found out that it is the shift key that needs to be pressed during boot
[08:18] <qzio> managed to boot into an older kernel, but X is without keyboard/mouse/network
[08:19] <qzio> neither ctrl-alt-backspace nor ctrl-alt-f1 works :(
[08:19] <qzio> *cries*
[08:20] <eagles0513875> morning
[08:22] <Celtiore> hi eagles0513875
[08:22] <eagles0513875> how are we today Celtiore
[08:22] <eagles0513875> and whats up in the karmic front
[08:24] <Celtiore> some troubles this morning with network-manager :)
[08:24] <Celtiore> ... but working fine for alpha release :p
[08:26] <eagles0513875> :)
[08:26] <eagles0513875> im on kubuntu so i dont seem to have issues with it
[08:26] <eagles0513875> cept one that has resurfaced again in karmic that was in jaunty
[08:31] <nonix4> Where can I rtfm how to serve a PXE bootable Karmic for diskless hosts, using any previous version of Ubuntu as server? (installation guide for netboot only seems to describe "alternate cd", which sounds like something that assumes local storage to exist)
[08:31] <AlanBell> DasEi: superb! I have X
[08:32] <AlanBell> There were some errors on bootup relating to initscripts
[08:32] <AlanBell> and whilst doing the repairs it was complaining about not being able to write to /dev/pts for the log file
[08:33] <AlanBell> but I am back to a mostly functional system
[08:33] <AlanBell> oh and network manager even works now
[08:34] <AlanBell> and the full resolution fbcon too
[08:36] <diverse_izzue> is pygtk broken for others as well?
[08:36] <AlanBell> bootup isn't happy about some things in /lib/udev/rules.d/
[08:37] <AlanBell> diverse_izzue: don't think so, how broken?
[08:37] <DasEi> AlanBell: backup xorg.conf, if not empty, do same step again ..
[08:37] <ior3k> AlanBell: same here
[08:37] <diverse_izzue> AlanBell, broken as in reinstalling fixed it.
[08:38] <diverse_izzue> all programs using pygtk complained that they couldn't find it
[08:38] <diverse_izzue> reinstalling helpted
[08:39] <AlanBell> DasEi: I have not xorg.conf
[08:39] <DasEi> nonix:google hint ltsp
[08:40] <DasEi> AlanBell: /etc/X11/xorg.conf ?? empty maybe, but there
[08:40] <AlanBell> DasEi: what the init 1/repair bit?
[08:40] <AlanBell> DasEi: nope, nothing there at all
[08:40] <AlanBell> which is, I admit a bit odd
[08:40] <AlanBell> I thought I had a fairly trivial xorg.conf
[08:41] <DasEi> Alan : yes, the dkms likes initialising;; anyway I dropped karmic for today, jaunty is fine !! hehe
[08:43] <AlanBell> the udev rules it doesn't like are 40-ppc.rules 50-udev-default.rules z60_hdparm.rules
[08:44] <AlanBell> oh interesting
[08:44] <AlanBell> the graphical X console is now on ctrl+alt+f8
[08:49] <rohdef> how come I not be able to find a package for gecko sharp?
[08:49] <AlanBell> rohdef: what does it do?
[08:50] <AlanBell> and is this a karmic package you are expecting to find?
[08:50] <TLF> hello
[08:50] <rohdef> enable me to compile monodevelop from svn with the features I want
[08:50] <TLF> may I ask, how can I access the migration asssistant in karmic?
[08:50] <rohdef> and yes it is a karmic I expect to find
[08:51] <TLF> in the liveCD i mean
[08:51] <rohdef> as far as I can see it has been present as libgecko-cil in previous ubuntu versions, but I can't find it
[08:51] <joaopinto> is alpha5 broken ?
[08:52] <mjbrooks> yes
[08:52] <joaopinto> as in reporting that a filesystem is corrupted ?
[08:52] <mjbrooks> yes
[08:52] <joaopinto> ouch
[08:52] <TLF> :?
[08:52] <AlanBell> rohdef: ok, well I can confirm it is there on my jaunty and not on my karmic
[08:52] <mjbrooks> joaopinto, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/e2fsprogs/+bug/427822
[08:52] <CQ> hello, networkmanager in karmic keeps killing my DNS servers from resolv.conf, how can I make them permanent?
[08:52] <CQ> the IP addr is fixed, so no DHCP DNS servers...
[08:53] <rohdef> AlanBell, yup, just found the entrance on packages.ubuntu for the jaunty, but now I'm wondering, why has it been removed?
[08:53] <rohdef> I can just install it from the deb-file for jaunty, but I don't consider it optimal doing it that way
[08:54] <joaopinto> but erm, wasn't the ISO tested ?
[08:54] <AlanBell> rohdef: no idea, maybe check in debian to see if it was removed there.
[08:55] <rohdef> their IRC-channel, or?
[08:55] <CQ> packages.debian.org
[08:55] <mjbrooks> joaopinto, i dont follow you
[08:56] <TLF> mjbrooks: oh, so that might explain why I can't access to the new migration assistant in system?
[08:57] <bucky> CQ, if you can't stop dhclient from over writing resolv.conf you can edit /etc/network/interfaces  and change dhcp to static
[08:57] <bucky> if you're running a static addy anyway
[08:57] <joaopinto> mjbrooks, that bug is present on the alpha5 iso imagre which was recently published
[08:57] <joaopinto> image
[08:58] <CQ> bucky- not sure it is dhclient... message in resolv.conf is # Generated by NetworkManager
[08:58] <joaopinto> it is not likely to get such a severe bug during a milestone iso
[08:58] <veiz> install tor 0.2.0.34~1 ppa1 from https://launchpad.net/~brcha/+archive/ppa/+build/1085544 failed, told me libc6 problem~
[08:58] <mjbrooks> joaopinto, i believe it was more recently introduced when a dev forgot what a freexe meant
[08:59] <mjbrooks> freeze
[08:59] <VSpike> Oh so the upstart stuff is still broken?
[08:59] <veiz> my libc6 is 2.10.1-0ubuntu12, already the latest one~
[08:59] <CQ> bucke
[09:00] <veiz> tor: dependency libc6 (< 2.10) but 2.10.1-0ubuntu12 is ready to install~
[09:00] <CQ> bucky: seems line /etc/NetworkManager needs to be fiddled with somehow...
[09:00] <VSpike> Saw this and thought maybe it was all fixed http://identi.ca/notice/10129532
[09:00] <mjbrooks> joaopinto, if you're connected to the intertubes when you install it will download the latest updates, including the broken ones
[09:01] <bucky> CQ, isn't there a place to define dns nameservers in the gui configuration tool?
[09:01] <CQ> bucky: which gui configuration tool? never used one except for wireless
[09:02] <bucky> somewhere in System=> Administration
[09:02] <joaopinto> mjbrooks, well, the problem is that I just got an unbootable system on my second reboot
[09:03] <joaopinto> to make things worse the grub upgrade does not add an entry for my jaunty's filesystem/kernel
[09:03] <joaopinto> had to restore grub from a jaunty cd :|
[09:04] <CQ> bucky- there is a default connection called ifupdown(eth9)
[09:05] <CQ> eth0
[09:05] <AlanBell> is there going to be an irc client in Karmic (on an out of the box default install)
[09:05] <mjbrooks> yes
[09:05] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Now that my Ubuntu PC is ruined, I need to download a new ISO
[09:06] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Which one should I download and install?
[09:07] <joaopinto> xcdfgkjhgcv, not karmic unless you are expeting a broken system at this time
[09:07] <mjbrooks> Everyone needs to step back, take a breath and remember that Karmic is ALPHA... it's not meant for use, it's meant for development
[09:07] <xcdfgkjhgcv> joaopinto: I'm not going back to Jaunty.
[09:07] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Please could someone paste me a link to an alpha 5 ISO? This filtering system is making browsing for one really difficult.
[09:08] <joaopinto> xcdfgkjhgcv, read the topic, karmic is currently broken
[09:08] <xcdfgkjhgcv> joaopinto: I don't care. I want to install alpha 5 and then not update.
[09:08] <mjbrooks> which iso? desktop ubuntu?
[09:08] <joaopinto> xcdfgkjhgcv, the iso is broken, not the updates
[09:08] <xcdfgkjhgcv> mjbrooks: Yes please.
[09:08] <xcdfgkjhgcv> joaopinto: WTF?
[09:08] <joaopinto> actually, not the iso, but a package on the iso
[09:09] <joaopinto> xcdfgkjhgcv, you have been warned
[09:09] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Alpha 4 then
[09:09] <joaopinto> ah :)
[09:09] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Just give me the latest working ISO
[09:09] <mjbrooks> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/karmic/alpha-5/karmic-desktop-i386.iso
[09:09] <xcdfgkjhgcv> mjbrooks: Is that a working ISO?
[09:09] <AlanBell> xcdfgkjhgcv: it worked for me
[09:09] <mjbrooks> as far as I know... it's the updates since then that are fudged
[09:10] <joaopinto> I didn't performed any updates
[09:10] <AlanBell> xcdfgkjhgcv: when installing unplug your internet
[09:10] <xcdfgkjhgcv> AlanBell: Command acknowledged.
[09:10] <joaopinto> oh, maybe it did during the install phase
[09:10] <AlanBell> the install process does
[09:10] <joaopinto> ok ok
[09:10] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Will I be able to use my existing encrypted home directory without having to reencrypt it?
[09:10] <mjbrooks> yes, no interslidytubes or the install process will update you to breakage hell
[09:10] <mjbrooks> xcdfgkjhgcv, rut roh
[09:11] <mjbrooks> got backups?
[09:11] <xcdfgkjhgcv> mjbrooks: No.
[09:11] <AlanBell> well, I am fully updated now, a bit of a hicup this morning, but now bang up to date and working fine
[09:11] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I don't have enough disk space for backups.
[09:11] <mjbrooks> which method of encryption are you using?
[09:12] <AlanBell> xcdfgkjhgcv: invest in a usb hdd :-)
[09:12] <xcdfgkjhgcv> AlanBell: I have one.
[09:12] <xcdfgkjhgcv> mjbrooks: ecrypt-fs of course
[09:13] <mjbrooks> xcdfgkjhgcv, well, there are other options like LUKS so I had to ask
[09:13] <mjbrooks> did you write down your unwrapped passphrase?
[09:13] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Fuck.
[09:13] <mjbrooks> I take that as a no
[09:13] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I left it in a file inside the encrypted file system.
[09:14] <AlanBell> xcdfgkjhgcv: I would assume that you won't be able to use it, thus you will be pleasently surprised when you can.
[09:14] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I didn't anticipate my system breaking
[09:14] <mjbrooks> xcdfgkjhgcv, well at least it's safe ;)
[09:14] <mjbrooks> xcdfgkjhgcv, Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!
[09:15] <mjbrooks> xcdfgkjhgcv, if you fiddle around you can get into the recovery boot option and do an update
[09:15] <mjbrooks> xcdfgkjhgcv, that will get you half fixed
[09:15] <xcdfgkjhgcv> mjbrooks: I can't boot into the recovery mode.
[09:16] <xcdfgkjhgcv> mjbrooks: My system is completely unbootable.
[09:16] <mjbrooks> it gives you the date thing right?
[09:16] <xcdfgkjhgcv> mjbrooks: The what thing?
[09:17] <mjbrooks> the fsck modified date is in the future... is that the error you are gtting?
[09:17] <xcdfgkjhgcv> mjbrooks: I'm getting no error.
[09:18] <popey> xcdfgkjhgcv: what exactly is the issue you're getting?
[09:18] <mjbrooks> what happens when you power on?
[09:18] <xcdfgkjhgcv> It won't boot up.
[09:18] <popey> many of the current issues with karmic can be worked around fairly easily
[09:18] <popey> what does it do?
[09:18] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: It won't boot up.
[09:18] <mjbrooks> can you be more spefic
[09:18] <popey> disk light on permanently?
[09:18] <popey> I'm not asking what it wont do
[09:18] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: I don't know.
[09:18] <popey> I am asking what it _does_ do
[09:18] <popey> do you get grub for example?
[09:18] <popey> do you get a menu?
[09:19] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: Yes
[09:19] <popey> do you get _any_ output
[09:19] <popey> right, this is helpful
[09:19] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: I don't think so. Unless I do recovery.
[09:19] <popey> "it wont boot" isnt
[09:19] <popey> ok, so do you get a grub menu?
[09:19] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: It's pretty much exactly the problem, though.
[09:19] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: Correct.
[09:19] <popey> good!
[09:19] <popey> and when you choose the first option does the screen go black with a flashing cursor?
[09:20] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: Yeah.
[09:20] <popey> ok, can you check whether the disk light comes on
[09:20] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: No.
[09:20] <popey> why?
[09:20] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: I'm not at my PC right now.
[09:20] <popey> ok
[09:21] <popey> well I have some experience of breakage in karmic as I've been running scotts new boot up crack for a few days before it hit karmic
[09:21] <mjbrooks> might be the libc6 issue from the other day
[09:21] <popey> if you can get to your pc you may find that when you boot the disk light comes on permanently, it may well just be fscking
[09:21] <popey> which is the issue I had
[09:21] <popey> there is nothing on the screen to tell you its fscking
[09:21] <popey> you just have to wait
[09:22] <popey> you could also boot off a live cd, or usb stick, and chroot the root filesystem and do an update/dist-upgrade, then reboot into the system
[09:22] <mjbrooks> I hate it when my computer is fscking on me without telling me
[09:23] <xcdfgkjhgcv> initscripts isn't installed
[09:23] <popey> you're at the machine now?
[09:23] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: No.
[09:24]  * mjbrooks facepalm
[09:24] <mjbrooks> Is the machine there?
[09:24] <xcdfgkjhgcv> mjbrooks: My machine is at home. I am not at home.
[09:24] <popey> ah
[09:25] <mjbrooks> information! helpful
[09:25] <popey> I'd suggest you come back when you are at the machine
[09:26] <xcdfgkjhgcv> It could be that it is just fscking without telling me?
[09:26] <popey> thats a possibility, yes
[09:26] <xcdfgkjhgcv> So I need to wait a few minutes for it to boot.
[09:26] <popey> i had that a couple of days ago
[09:26] <xcdfgkjhgcv> FFS I just want it to boot up for me.
[09:26] <popey> we'll you'll know if the disk light is permanently on
[09:26] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: I only had it beginning last night.
[09:26] <popey> yes, as I said, I was running this stuff before it hit the repo
[09:26] <Michalxo> hello all!
[09:26] <popey> hence why i had it a couple of days ago
[09:26] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: Why won't it tell me then?
[09:27] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Michalxo: Greetings.
[09:27] <popey> because that bit of the UI wasn't finished
[09:27] <Michalxo> I am having problem with n-manager... need help unable to start internet connection at all
[09:27] <AlanBell> Michalxo: sudo dhclient
[09:27] <Michalxo> some yesterday upadates messed it all
[09:27] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: So I just sit there and wait for 10 minutes or so without touching anything?
[09:27] <AlanBell> Michalxo: the updates this morning fixed it for me
[09:27] <popey> xcdfgkjhgcv: firstly check and see if the disk light is on permanently
[09:27] <popey> if it is, chances are it's fscking
[09:27] <AlanBell> Michalxo: but they broke x for a bit too
[09:27] <gord> still not safe yet?
[09:28] <popey> gord: safe here
[09:28] <Michalxo> AlanBell, well.. I can't get into net... can you send me package names? Yes, failed to login to X too...
[09:28] <popey> gord: just updated my laptop and it's all back to safe
[09:28] <Michalxo> AlanBell, I am on windows, so I should get them :)
[09:28] <cdE|Woozy_> AlanBell, what did they break, exactly?
[09:28] <gord> popey:  okey-doky - i think i'll leave it a few hours yet though ;)
[09:28] <AlanBell> Michalxo: sudo dhclient will get you an IP address (probably)
[09:28] <Michalxo> wifi? :-/
[09:28] <popey> cdE|Woozy_: new boot up stuff
[09:28] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Michalxo: My system just became unbootable.
[09:28] <AlanBell> Michalxo: at least on a wired network
[09:29] <popey> xcdfgkjhgcv: we havent proved that yet
[09:29] <Michalxo> xcdfgkjhgcv, same here, I run it from recovery and then start x :)
[09:29] <cdE|Woozy_> popey, I meant the X bits :)
[09:29] <Michalxo> normal boot = just black screen
[09:29] <popey> cdE|Woozy_: gdm is part of the x bits
[09:29] <popey> Michalxo: press ctrl+alt+f7
[09:29] <Michalxo> AlanBell, I'm going to try it.. just wait here for few moments.. I'll be back
[09:30] <Michalxo> popey, not working for me atall
[09:30] <popey> i found that switching to tty7 made it carry on with the graphical boot
[09:30] <popey> Michalxo: "not working" means what?
[09:30] <Michalxo> not here.. old kernel runs OK
[09:30] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: Ahhhhhhh
[09:30] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: The problem came after installing mountall
[09:30] <Michalxo> not working gdm = balck screen , nothing possible to do, only reboot
[09:30] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: So this caused the hidden fscking?
[09:30] <popey> xcdfgkjhgcv: no
[09:30] <popey> xcdfgkjhgcv: we have yet to determine if it is fscking
[09:31] <Michalxo> yes, fsck problem here too :)
[09:31] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: Will you be online later today?
[09:31] <popey> xcdfgkjhgcv: what time?
[09:31] <mjbrooks> speaking of which.... I need a fscking drink
[09:31] <popey> \o/ coffee
[09:31] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: I'll get home around 16:00
[09:31] <xcdfgkjhgcv> mjbrooks: I need to fsck your mum.
[09:31] <popey> xcdfgkjhgcv: I'll be getting my daughter from school at that time
[09:31] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: Soon after then?
[09:32] <popey> if you leave the mum-fscking gags out, yes
[09:32] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: How old is your daughter?
[09:32] <popey> thats not important right now
[09:32] <xcdfgkjhgcv> popey: I'll see you later then. :)
[09:32] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Bye bye for now.
[09:32] <popey> ok
[09:33] <karm_> Hi
[09:34] <mjbrooks> to think I tried being helpful
[09:34] <mjbrooks> sigh
[09:35] <karm_> I guess I'm just repeating the same question (but nothing helpful from a quick glimpse through the logs)
[09:35] <karm_> dbus is broken?
[09:35] <popey> not broken
[09:35] <popey> being updated
[09:35] <karm_> How do I get my computer back to booting?
[09:35] <popey> what exactly does it do now?
[09:36] <karm_> It basically hangs at "init: dbus prestart process terminated with status1"  and it gives the process ID, too, I think
[09:36] <popey> you get no logon screen?
[09:36] <AlanBell> can you then log on to the text console?
[09:36] <popey> do you get a logon prompt?
[09:36] <karm_> I can get to the text console only for a brief second
[09:37] <popey> if you press CTRL+ALT+F7 does the boot process continue?
[09:37] <karm_> no
[09:38] <michalxo> hello! again me... nm-problem, can anyone help me to get wifi connection via CLI?
[09:38] <michalxo> I see essids, just need to connect
[09:38] <AlanBell> does ctrl+alt+f2 get you to a console you can log on to?
[09:38] <AlanBell> hi michalxo  no wires?
[09:38] <michalxo> AlanBell: no n-m at all... dhclient see wlan, and many other devices
[09:39] <michalxo> just n-m is broken, and I can't /don't know how to connect via CLI to network
[09:39] <AlanBell> and you can't plug in a cable for a second?
[09:39] <michalxo>  Iam in system.. (this is another pc)
[09:39] <michalxo> no cable :(
[09:39] <AlanBell> do you have wep/wpa on the wireless?
[09:39] <michalxo> yes
[09:40] <AlanBell> and can you turn it off temporarily?
[09:40] <michalxo> sudo iwconfig wlan0 essid <network_name> what else?
[09:40] <michalxo> no :(
[09:41] <AlanBell> sudo iwconfig wlan0 key s:password
[09:41] <michalxo> I just need to bypass n-m, everything else works fine... I am on another machine, so all we do I can type in moment
[09:41] <michalxo> AlanBell: error for wireless request "Set Encode": invalid argument
[09:41] <AlanBell> michalxo: yes, I was just ruling out some of the easier/more reliable options first.
[09:42] <AlanBell> do you have a hex key  for the wireless?
[09:42] <michalxo> no, just text
[09:42] <popey> michalxo: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WPAHowTo#WPA%20Supplicant
[09:43] <karm__> sorry, this web interface to irc is pretty flakey
[09:44] <karm__> to answer the question, no I can't get to the second VT and log on
[09:44] <karm__> It's just empty
[09:44] <karm__> I can boot into a simple Linux system via USB
[09:45] <michalxo> popey: Edit /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf to include your network. I don't have the file.. make it then? or ?
[09:45] <karm__> Is there something I can disable (dbus?) so that I can at least boot and run aptitude?
[09:46] <popey> michalxo: you might want to read the entire page
[09:46] <nonix4> $ sudo ltsp-build-client --dist karmic  # => /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/karmic   # - can I just symlink jaunty or do I need to do something fancier to build karmic ltsp image on jaunty?
[09:46] <nonix4> "E: No such script:" that is
[09:47] <jetienne> q. i just upgraded my box and got serious booting issues, fsck + unable to launch X etc..., is that a general bug or something specific to my box ?
[09:47] <karm__> jetienne: unfortunately, it seems to be a general problem
[09:47]  * karm__ points to topic
[09:48] <jetienne> karm__: do you have a pointer on this probem
[09:48] <karm__> jetienne: no
[09:48] <karm__> I'm still looking for a fix myself
[09:48] <karm__> And you#re lucky
[09:48] <karm__> I can't even log into the console
[09:48] <karm__> IOW, I really don't know yet how to push the updates in once they are available
[09:49] <AlanBell> if you can log into a console then sudo dhclient to get an IP address, then sudo init 1 and repair packages
[09:49] <jetienne> karm__: booting on usbkey seems to be the way then.
[09:50] <jetienne> trying older kernels helps ?
[09:50] <slytherin> karm__: jetienne: you can use netboot CD to boot in rescue mode. The ISO is just 12 MB of download.
[09:51] <karm__> jetienne: I already booted an USB key
[09:51] <karm__> But right now I only have a Windows box (this box) and an installer USB key for Arch Linux
[09:51] <Michalxo_> popey, AlanBell thanks guys, it works :)
[09:51] <jetienne> feedback: the topic is unsuitable to the issue in my opinion. clearly warn people not to update. clear away from being 'diplomatic'. mozilla lost a lot because of this
[09:51] <popey> Michalxo_: excellent
[09:51] <Michalxo_> udo wpa_supplicant -iwlan0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf pretty neat... :)
[09:52] <Michalxo_> so this is the way how to "always" connect to network if nm is broken?
[09:52] <popey> it's certainly _a_ way ;)
[09:52] <popey> carrying a cable with you is another
[09:52] <Michalxo_> well.. soo... where can I find wifi_how_to make connection via CLI? :)
[09:53] <karm__> slytherin: what do I do once booted inside the netboot CD?
[09:53] <nonix4> popey: assuming connecting that cable anywhere is possible/allowed, of course :)
[09:53] <karm__> does the netboot CD include chroot?
[09:53] <Michalxo_> popey, well.. cable.. I don't have physical access to ap
[09:53] <popey> just offering suggestions nonix4 / Michalxo_
[09:53] <popey> another option is move the computer to another place :)
[09:53] <Michalxo_> well.. it's laptop.. :)
[09:54] <popey> easy then :)
[09:54] <slytherin> karm__: You boot into rescue mode, it offers to mount your root partition. Then you can do apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade
[09:54] <karm__> OK
[09:54]  * nonix4 does tend to keep extra cable with himself though :)
[09:54] <Michalxo_> but I'd like to know how to make connections via CLI too :)
[09:54] <popey> slytherin: didnt know recovery mode had that option to mount local disk, thats handy
[09:54] <karm__> slytherin: I hope it's somehow possible to create a USB bootable stick with windows
[09:54] <jetienne> slytherin: a update now will fix the broken update from yesterday ?
[09:54] <popey> karm__: unetbootin on windows can do that
[09:55] <karm__> jetienne: I assume that eventually proper packages are released
[09:55] <slytherin> jetienne: Look at the topic. Analysis is being done. The fix is not yet released.
[09:55] <karm__> popey: thanks
[09:55] <Michalxo_> 79 updates in 10hours? :)
[09:55] <jetienne> slytherin: as i said topic is vague
[09:55] <slytherin> karm__: I don't know about that. Haven't used Windows for last 5 years.
[09:55] <karm__> Well, me neither
[09:55] <karm__> ;-)
[09:55] <popey> karm__: in fact it can download the iso for you
[09:55] <Ian_Corne> my laptop keeps falling back to fsck failed with error code 4, root mounted as ro and run fsck manually :(
[09:55] <slytherin> jetienne: When the fix is released, simple apt-get upgrade should fix the problem.
[09:55] <karm__> But right now, you're forcing me
[09:56] <karm__> grr
[09:56] <popey> karm__: nobody is _forcing_ you to do anything
[09:56] <karm__> yes
[09:56] <slytherin> karm__: Why are you trying to use USB disk? why not simply use netboot CD?
[09:56] <karm__> Thinkpad X24 has no CD
[09:56] <popey> you should have a bootable usb stick and cdrom in your laptop bag at all times if you're running karmic IMO
[09:57] <popey> sensible precaution
[09:57] <karm__> yes
[09:57] <karm__> agreed
[09:57]  * popey has a usb stick which contains not only a bootable system, but the entire repository too :)
[09:57] <popey> \o/
[09:57] <karm__> but people should probably tested the packagesbetter, too
[09:57] <popey> it isnt testing thats the problem
[09:57] <popey> its the sequence of the build
[09:57] <popey> and the fact that people update mid way through
[09:57] <karm__> ic
[09:58] <karm__> I'm not complaining, I know what I'm running
[09:58] <popey> :)
[09:59] <nonix4> "rm: cannot remove `/opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/event.d/tty[2-6]': No such file or directory" -- is /etc/event.d supposed to exist on Karmic?
[10:01] <slytherin> karm__: Even I am stuck with un-bootable system at home. But then I blame myself, I shouldn't have done partial upgrades.
[10:03] <joaopinto> Ian_Corne, known issue, being fixed
[10:04] <cjwatson> slytherin,jetienne: actually the archive should be mostly OK now we think
[10:04] <cjwatson> though nobody's got round to updating the topic
[10:04] <popey> its certainly fine here
[10:04] <slytherin> cjwatson: I will confirm that when I go home.
[10:05] <cjwatson> karm__: popey's right, the packages were actually fairly extensively tested in a PPA first - but unfortunately they have to be rebuilt for publication to the main archive and *that* all went a bit wrong
[10:05] <popey> "a bit" :)
[10:05] <mjbrooks> a wee bit
[10:05] <popey> meh, it's an alpha quality development version, people should toughen up and remember what version they're running ;)
[10:06] <mjbrooks> popey, that's what I've been saying
[10:06] <popey> (not helpful of course)
[10:06] <mjbrooks> been saying that too
[10:06] <mjbrooks> ;)
[10:06] <popey> maybe we should write a wiki page "How to survive on development releases"
[10:07] <henke> I'm surprised by the relative stability of the development version anyway, this kind of breakage isn't that common
[10:07] <popey> "always carry a bootable usb and cd", "know how to chroot", "know how to get online without nm, from the cli".. etc
[10:07] <mjbrooks> popey, ok.... <html><head><title>How to survive on development releases</title></head><h1>Part 1</h1><p>DON'T!</p></html>
[10:08]  * popey checks that for html standards compliance
[10:08] <mjbrooks> lol
[10:08] <mjbrooks> version 2...
[10:08] <mjbrooks> popey, ok.... <html><head><title>How to survive on development releases</title></head><h1>Part 1</h1><p><blink>DON'T!</blink></p></html>
[10:08] <popey> pffft
[10:09] <mjbrooks> bwahahah
[10:09] <popey> where's the <marquee>
[10:12] <dto> cjwatson: so, would this be a good time to try upgrading to karmic?
[10:12] <dto> cjwatson: via update-manager -d
[10:13] <mjbrooks> no! don't do it man!!11
[10:14] <dto> :)
[10:14] <Ian_Corne> joaopinto: ok thanks :D
[10:14] <cjwatson> dto: do you need the computer to work?
[10:14] <cjwatson> if it's important to you that it does, then in general you should not upgrade to development releases
[10:15] <mjbrooks> cjwatson, oops   ;)
[10:15] <dto> well ... 1. jaunty realtime kernel does not work anyway ... 2. i want to help make ubuntu work on this laptop
[10:16] <vigo> I placed Edbuntu in this, works great so far.
[10:16] <cjwatson> it's certainly a better time than yesterday
[10:16] <cjwatson> there are still some known and undiagnosed problems with the new boot system
[10:17] <karm_> slytherin: when you were talking about rescue mode, you were talking about the net install iso?  You said netboot iso, but I don't see that offered in unetbootin.  OTOH, there is no rescue mode in the ISO I installed, AFAICS
[10:17] <dto> cjwatson: on the one hand i want to get some things done on this laptop, on the other hand I want to help test and get things working in karmic. what do you think ?
[10:17] <slytherin> karm_: which ISO did you downloaded?
[10:18] <cjwatson> dto: then I'd advise waiting for alpha 6, by which time we should hopefully have all the critical bugs with the new boot system sorted out
[10:18] <slytherin> dto: use some virtual machine
[10:18] <dto> cjwatson: ok. when is alpha 6 scheduled for?
[10:18] <mjbrooks> slytherin, virtual machines are useless for development testing
[10:19] <cjwatson> dto: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
[10:19] <mjbrooks> I thought tomorrow was when it's die
[10:19] <mjbrooks> due
[10:20] <slytherin> mjbrooks: I assumed they are useful. There are pages in wiki.ubuntu.com that tell you how to do testing using virtual machines (mainly kvm I guess).
[10:20] <AlanBell> depends what you are testing
[10:21] <mjbrooks> exactly AlanBell
[10:21] <karm_> slytherin: I downloaded what unetbootin offered as 9.04_NetInstall
[10:21] <karm_> I am not convinced that was the right one
[10:21] <karm_> I'll download the ISO manually
[10:21] <mjbrooks> ugh.. will this tar never end
[10:22] <slytherin> karm_: I am sorry, I am not aware of what is unetbootin is. I was referring to this http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/netboot/
[10:23] <karm_> very well, that's what I'll use then
[10:23] <karm_> thanks
[10:24] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: wanna know what fixed my issue
[10:24] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, which issue?
[10:25] <eagles0513875> x crashing on bootup and ending up in a tty console login
[10:25] <mjbrooks> ah... what was it?
[10:26] <dto> mjbrooks: cool. in the meantime... what's the right pulseaudio ppa to use?
[10:26] <mjbrooks> dto, I don't use PA
[10:27] <eagles0513875> hehe mjbrooks for some reason i needed the driver from the nvidia site to get it working
[10:28] <superdump> i updated about 8-9 hours ago and updated the init scripts
[10:28] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875,  interesting
[10:28] <superdump> they were working quite well then apart from a known issue that could be ignored
[10:28] <mjbrooks> superdump, ruth rih
[10:28] <indus> cjwatson: hello,so how are things today
[10:28] <eagles0513875> my thoughts exactly mjbrooks
[10:28] <eagles0513875> gonna update and see what else breaks today hopefully nothing
[10:28] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, i'd wait
[10:29] <eagles0513875> why mjbrooks
[10:29] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, spent half the day trying to get back to my desktop
[10:29] <ripps> dto: the ubuntu-audio-dev team has a ppa for testing pulseaudio
[10:29] <eagles0513875> oh my
[10:29] <cjwatson> indus: better, but still some problems being reported with dbus not starting properly
[10:29] <superdump> i see there are more updates to the init scripts now and they seem to be bug fixes from what i can tell
[10:29] <dto> ripps: ah, found it. thanks
[10:29] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: what was the solution in the end :(
[10:29] <cjwatson> (BTW please don't ask me stuff personally, maybe somebody else knows better than I!)
[10:29] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, tears... lots of tears
[10:30] <superdump> just wondering whether there's known complete breakage at the moment or not
[10:30] <MindVirus> Are the problem fixed yet?
[10:30] <eagles0513875> :( mjbrooks
[10:30] <MindVirus> *problems
[10:30] <eagles0513875> MindVirus: specify problems
[10:30] <superdump> i mean versus 8-9 hours ago
[10:30] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, and some fancy footwork to get a terminal, get internet and get updates
[10:30] <MindVirus> eagles0513875: the complete breakage.
[10:30] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: interesting you on a desktop
[10:30] <cjwatson> MindVirus: see what I wrote between the time you joined the channel and the time you asked your question
[10:30] <eagles0513875> MindVirus: i havent had total breakage on kubuntu seems like its gnome specific
[10:31] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, am now... we'll see in about two minutes, about to reboot... hopefully the latest batch of updates cleared it mostly up instead of just halfway
[10:31] <indus> cjwatson: remember yesterday i told you, apt kept giving dbus error, maybe because its not started or something
[10:31] <dto> ripps: that seems to be karmic only
[10:31] <MindVirus> cjwatson: not to ask you stuff personally?
[10:31] <indus> anyways, i will update today late as iam at work :)
[10:31] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: im gonna take my chances
[10:31] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, this was total kubuntu breakage
[10:31] <cjwatson> MindVirus: 10:29 <cjwatson> indus: better, but still some problems being reported with dbus not starting properly
[10:31] <eagles0513875> if worse comes to worse i can reinstall
[10:32] <cjwatson> indus: sorry, I don't know
[10:32] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: what i dont get is how my vm is running and i just updated and rebooted
[10:32] <eagles0513875> whats funny is on reboot its always wanting to run an fsck check before rebooting
[10:32] <MindVirus> Ahh I missed the topic.
[10:32] <mjbrooks> vm is simulated hardware... soft and forgiving
[10:32] <cjwatson> nobody's got round to resetting the topic since yesterday
[10:33] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, if I'm not back in a few minutes you'll know not to update... how's that?
[10:33] <cjwatson> ikonia: ^- if you could do the honours at some point ...
[10:33] <eagles0513875> well ill take my chances and if worse comes to worse i can reinstall
[10:33] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: its no big if it doesnt work for me :(
[10:33] <indus> i was hoping someone would make a forum sticky
[10:33] <mjbrooks> brb
[10:33] <indus> didnt see that yet
[10:33] <eagles0513875> try doing a clean install
[10:33] <eagles0513875> !grub2
[10:37] <mjbrooks> eww... some ugly udev warnings, but came up ok
[10:37] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: now my keyboard and mouse wont work and i havent updated anything
[10:38] <indus> cjwatson: what was happening yesterday was, apt-get update would give some dbus message with subprocess returned error code
[10:38] <mjbrooks> eagles0513875, oh noes!
[10:38] <eagles0513875> well thats just blooming gr8
[10:38] <eagles0513875> :(
[10:38] <eagles0513875> even in init 1 no keybaord response
[10:38] <cjwatson> indus: I remember what you said - but I'm afraid I do not have the answer to your problem
[10:38] <mjbrooks> sounds similar to what I had
[10:39] <eagles0513875> how u fix it
[10:39] <indus> :) ok
[10:39] <cjwatson> indus: I expect you need to file a bug with the *full* output
[10:39] <mjbrooks> boot to a live cd  chroot to your disk run updates
[10:40] <indus> *full* output? hmm okies but i want to update later today and then see what happens
[10:40] <eagles0513875> O_O blarg
[10:40] <eagles0513875> :(
[10:40] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: you will need to alk me through it but right now im soon off for lunch
[10:40] <cjwatson> indus: yes, nobody is going to be able to debug "some dbus message with subprocess returned error code" :-)
[10:40] <mjbrooks> eat well ;)
[10:41] <cjwatson> indus: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
[10:42] <eagles0513875> thanks mjbrooks
[10:42] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: what makes no sense this was working last night
[10:42] <eagles0513875> why the keyboard and mouse breakage all of a sudden
[10:43] <mjbrooks> welcome to dev release
[10:43] <eagles0513875> hehe
[10:43] <eagles0513875> its ok :)
[10:43] <eagles0513875> hehe even with a screwed up linux partition thanks to boot camp i can still get on my osx partition
[10:44] <eagles0513875> once i get stuff working again im gonna compile the beta of koffice 2.1 or what ever the version is they have out
[11:03] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: managed to get to a tty console with the 2.6.28 kernel i still have after upgrading
[11:03] <eagles0513875> nm keyboard still doesnt work
[11:03] <eagles0513875> doh doh doh
[11:04] <vistakiller> hi
[11:05] <vistakiller> why every time i login i have to reinstall network manager to work?
[11:07] <hary> Karmic dont start after tonights update
[11:07] <hary> after a while it stops with a blink cursor
[11:07] <JanC> hary: see /topic  ;)
[11:09] <JanC> it's (mostly) fixed if you do an upgrade now
[11:10] <mac_v> JanC: is it fixed? i havent shutdown due to those probs ;)
[11:10] <karm_> I updated my unbootable system via USB netinstall ISO.  Yet the problem is unchanged: booting hangs with "init: dbus pre-start process (1053) terminated with status 1"
[11:11] <JanC> mac_v: I didn't reboot yet either ;) but so they say
[11:11] <karm_> That's really not good.  What do I do now?
[11:11] <karm_> Can I boot without dbus?
[11:11] <mac_v> hehe ... i'll wait then
[11:11] <vistakiller> and about network manager?
[11:14] <karm_> I believe I still have all old debs in my archive (LAN mirror)  what packages should I downgrade?  I need to get out of this situation.
[11:15] <karm_> which package is at the core of the problem?
[11:15] <vistakiller> give in terminal
[11:15] <vistakiller> sudo apt-get update
[11:15] <vistakiller> and then
[11:15] <vistakiller> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -y
[11:15] <karm_> vistakiller: Are you talking to me?
[11:15] <cjwatson> bug 430611
[11:16] <karm_> As I said, I'm fully up-to date
[11:16] <Severian> When people in here say it is mostly fixed, are they referring to all ubuntu karmic repositories.  I am in the US, for example, and I pull from us.archive.ubuntu.com.
[11:16] <karm_> cjwatson: thank,s I'll have a look
[11:16] <vistakiller> υεσ
[11:17] <cjwatson> Severian: us.archive.ubuntu.com is just the same as archive.ubuntu.com at the moment
[11:17] <Severian> OK, thanks cjwatson
[11:18] <joe12300> hi, i updatet to the new kernel today, and now i got the error Unable to connect to the system bus: Failed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory
[11:18] <indus> joe12300: ya me too its some breakage
[11:19] <joe12300> indus: oh not good, have someone a fix?
[11:21] <cjwatson> we're working on it
[11:21] <cjwatson> not as yet
[11:21] <indus> i go checrequests for sticky or put
[11:21] <indus> i mean forum for sticky
[11:21] <indus> i go check ( stupid laptop keys)
[11:23] <henu> is there someone else who has had network problems with karmic? I'm not sure why my system stops while booting, but it complains about network stuff.
[11:24] <JanC> henu: everybody who upgraded & rebooted during the last hours I suppose...  ;)
[11:24] <joe12300> i cant get in because i have this error:  Unable to connect to the system bus: Failed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory. but i cant connect to my router! ifconfig and sudo ifconfig is empty
[11:24] <slytherin> cjwatson: Hi. I was wondering if there is plan to change HIDE_TIMEOUT in grub2. Currently it is zero. And there is no way to bring up grub menu (let's say for booting into recovery mode).
[11:24] <dto> hey. just upgraded to karmic and rebooted. system works fine.
[11:25] <cjwatson> slytherin: hold shift
[11:25] <cjwatson> slytherin: there are plans to change this, but not by making it non-zero
[11:25] <joe12300> so i cant update/upgrade, reinstall karmic?
[11:25] <Severian> I have been removing uuids from /etc/fstab and /boot/grub/menu.lst so copies of partitions would boot.  Don't most people who image partitions to backup disks have to do this?
[11:25] <slytherin> cjwatson: Oh. I didn't know that. I tried Esc.
[11:26] <cjwatson> slytherin: the tentative plan is to have grub2 detect whether the last boot failed, and in that case automatically show the menu regardless of hidden-timeout configuration
[11:26] <Luit> does grub support dmraid level RAID5 in any way?
[11:26] <henu> JanC: oh.. is there any solution to this? i noticed some ppl where complaining about total lost of boot, but my system goes even few lines. it says something about root disk (that its' ok and has xxx bytes/cylinders/whatever) and then tries to boot but hangs after some network errors
[11:26] <slytherin> cjwatson: that would be cool.
[11:28] <JanC> does anybody know if there is a complete workaround/fix explanation somewhere on the forums or the wiki or such, would be useful to point people to something like that?
[11:28] <dto> yay. sound works. wireless works.
[11:28] <AlanBell> are things in the partner repo (specifically alfresco-community) going to turn up by themselves or should I file a request/prod someone to get it done?
[11:29] <Luit> I'm trying to install Ubuntu Karmic on 4 HDDs in RAID5 using FakeRAID... any advice on how to get it booting? (grub won't start)
[11:29] <dto> question: i removed the little volume control applet from the panel , i can't seem to get it back from "Add to Panel". how do i get the pulseaudio icon back?
[11:29] <JanC> AlanBell: I think the partner repo contains the stuff that companies pay Canonical for to put there
[11:29] <JanC> AlanBell: but you can use the version for jaunty probably
[11:30] <dto> ah it's back.
[11:30] <AlanBell> JanC: yes, the version for jaunty works fine (ish)
[11:30] <AlanBell> so I guess canonical should do something about rebuilding all their partner stuff for Karmic then
[11:31] <AlanBell> only acrobat and flash at the moment http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/karmic/partner/binary-i386/Packages
[11:32] <Luit> nobody?
[11:32] <JanC> AlanBell: only the stuff that they get paid for to rebuild I suppose  ;)
[11:32] <AlanBell> more stuff in Jaunty http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/jaunty/partner/binary-i386/Packages
[11:32] <vistakiller> i think that karmic have slower boot time from jaunty
[11:33] <vistakiller> is correct?
[11:33] <JanC> vistakiller: I should be faster, except for first boot I suppose
[11:33] <Severian> Mine seems a little faster in Karmic.
[11:33] <JanC> s/I/it/
[11:33] <karm_> slytherin: Your tip with netboot iso is very valuable.  But it seems I have a problem.  Any time aptitude wants to configure upstart the computer reboots.  Same thing next time around when I do "sudo dpkg --reconfigure -a"
[11:34] <vistakiller> in kubuntu i think is slower
[11:34] <slytherin> karm_: I think I faced same problem when I tried to rescue my system in morning. Do you know which package is being configured when it reboots?
[11:34] <vistakiller> anyone else have the problem with network-manger?
[11:34] <karm_> slytherin: upstart
[11:35] <JanC> Luit: I doubt that grub can boot from a fakeraid device, unless you find grub drivers for it  :P
[11:36] <slytherin> karm_: hmm, you can check the upstart* files in /var/lib/dpkg/info/ to see if it gives any idea.
[11:36] <JanC> vistakiller: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/430611
[11:36] <Luit> JanC, I just want grub to boot... can I change the last partition (swap) into a regular one, so 3 of the disks are ending with swap and the last (or first) for /boot?
[11:36] <Luit> or something like that?
[11:37] <Luit> does fakeRAID work that way?
[11:37] <JanC> Luit: that should work
[11:37] <Luit> I have no idea of how to exclude the last bit from the fakeRAID
[11:37] <JanC> although, maybe not
[11:37] <JanC> with linux software raid it would work
[11:37] <JanC> fakeraid is evil  ;)
[11:38] <vistakiller> thanks JanC
[11:38] <Luit> I know, that's how I fixed it with Archlinux before
[11:38] <vistakiller> the other things start only network-manager dont
[11:38] <Luit> using Linux's Software RAID instead of dmraid
[11:38] <vistakiller> what is the command to restart network-manager?
[11:40] <cjwatson> 'restart network-manager' :-)
[11:40] <cjwatson> $ sudo restart network-manager
[11:40] <cjwatson> network-manager start/running, process 6237
[11:41] <vistakiller> ok thanks
[11:41] <cjwatson> JanC,Luit: grub2 has some dmraid support, and it's on my to-do list to look into it more, but I don't know the full details
[11:41] <Luit> is grub2 usable at this point?
[11:42] <JanC> Luit: grub2 is the default for karmic new installs ツ
[11:43] <slytherin> Luit: I have been using it since intrepid. Mine is single boot system.
[11:43] <Luit> right...
[11:43] <Luit> then how do I tell GRUB2 that it's FakeRAID? :P
[11:43]  * Luit is hard at work reading up on GRUB2
[11:44] <JanC> hm, I see a dm_nv.mod, so apparently at least some dmraid are supported
[11:44] <mac_v> anyone know about wpa_supplicant ?
[11:45] <mac_v>  i'm trying to make wpa_supplicant *not* log in syslog but to a different location... so changing the  WPA_SUP_OPTIONS="-s -B -P > to >  WPA_SUP_OPTIONS="-f -B -P  is enough or... ?
[11:46] <Luit> JanC, great, now if only I could find out how to use it too :P
[11:46] <Luit> seems I need to compile a new core.img
[11:47] <Luit> blah, this new grub thing is quite different from grub legacy
[11:49] <JanC> it's an OS on itself   ;)
[11:50] <slytherin> JanC: like emacs? :-P
[11:51] <JanC> slytherin: knowing the GNU folks, maybe it's implemented on top of that?  :P
[11:51] <slytherin> LOL
[11:51] <Luit> any hints on what to try?
[11:52] <cjwatson> Luit: I didn't say I knew that it *worked* yet
[11:53] <cjwatson> I merely said there was some support; that doesn't mean I necessarily expect it to work for you (I simply don't have enough information)
[11:53] <cjwatson> Luit: however, http://grub.enbug.org/ may help
[11:53] <Luit> cjwatson, don' t care :P I want to try to boot, and if it doesn't, then I'll try something else
[11:55] <Luit> if the support simply isn't there then I'll try to exclude some parts of the RAID
[12:10] <henu> hmm.. it seems that my boot problem is related to NFS mount, that the system could not mount
[12:11] <stefanlsd> Anyone else got a broken system after todays updates? GDM doesnt start. looks like upstart stuff
[12:12] <henu> stefanlsd: i got and it was a mount problem
[12:12] <JanC> stefanlsd: known issue, see /topic and probably a load of bug reports
[12:13] <AlanBell> end
[12:13] <stefanlsd> oki. bit painful :)
[12:14] <AlanBell> oops
[12:14] <karm_> What packages should I downgrade until the worst is over?
[12:14] <karm_> upstart? udev?
[12:14] <stefanlsd> i see gdm and hal updates in archive... maybe this fixes something :)
[12:15] <cjwatson> downgrading will probably make things worse
[12:16] <Boohbah> downgrade them all and let a norse god sort them out
[12:17] <cjwatson> in particular, downgrading doesn't always e.g. put configuration files back the way they were
[12:18] <henke> my system was working after the fixed upstart and initscripts dependencies last night, are things rebroken?
[12:19] <karm_> X is still broken pretty bad for me
[12:19] <indus> my first major breakage :)
[12:19] <JanC> henke: might depend on your config or other things maybe
[12:19] <karm_> so is netowrking, but I can fix that manually
[12:19] <karm_> upstart postinst restarts my computer and thus never finishes
[12:19] <henke> I'll hold my reboot then, heh :)
[12:19] <cjwatson> uh? upstart.postinst just runs 'telinit u'
[12:20] <cjwatson> which re-execs init, but is definitely not supposed to restart your computer
[12:20] <cjwatson> please make sure there's a bug filed about that
[12:20] <karm_> when  get into X I may eventually do that ;-)
[12:21] <karm_>  /var is not mounted correctly
[12:21] <karm_> I'm not sure exactly what's happening for that one
[12:21] <cjwatson> yes, people with separate /var seem to be running into trouble
[12:22] <hifi> whats broken in karmic at the moment
[12:23] <JanC> things related to 'upstart' & boot scripts
[12:24] <hifi> so basically, don't upgrade until they are fixed?
[12:24] <JanC> hifi: that's probably a good idea for now, and if you accidentally upgraded, don't reboot  ;)
[12:25] <hifi> good thing I noticed the discussion and topic
[12:25] <hifi> I would've probably upgraded later today and cursed
[12:26] <JanC> upgrading doesn't seem to cause any problems in itself if you don't reboot
[12:27] <Unggnu> hi all
[12:27] <stefanlsd> ok got back into gdm at least.  if you are stuck at the command prompt, login and type.  sudo start dbus; sudo start network-manager; sudo start hal; sudo start gdm
[12:27] <Unggnu> somebody here with a Dell Inspiron 1525 system or not working Intel WLAN?
[12:27] <hifi> sure, but I currently dual boot between windows for my daily dosage of gaming
[12:27] <hifi> so I'd reboot eventually
[12:28] <duffydack> alpha 6 today or tomorrow ?
[12:29] <JanC> Unggnu: if you got problems overnight: known problem for almost everybody  ;)
[12:29] <Unggnu> JanC, no, since some weeks with WLAN
[12:29] <Unggnu> mainline kernel works
[12:30] <Unggnu> I haven't tested Karmic on this system before this time so I don't know if this happens before
[12:30] <JanC> Unggnu: in that case file a bug (if you didn't already)
[12:30] <Unggnu> JanC, I have, but no confirmation yet
[12:30] <Unggnu> I think this system should be common since it was the first Ubuntu Dell Notebook
[12:31] <JanC> all intel wlan is very common
[12:32] <Unggnu> yes, but it doesn't happen with ipw2200 and i3945 on another system
[12:32] <eagles0513875> mjbrooks: hey
[12:32] <Unggnu> seems to be a specific card JanC
[12:34] <suigeneris> hello
[12:34] <JanC> Unggnu: I saw in #kernel  ;)
[12:34] <hifi> though, why did broken upstart get into karmic?
[12:34] <JanC> eh #ubuntu-kernel
[12:34] <suigeneris> what does it mean Karmic WILL break?
[12:35] <hifi> suigeneris: upstart is broken, upgrading will result in non-bootable system
[12:35] <JanC> hifi: I heard something about it getting broken because of a build error or something
[12:35] <hifi> non-fatal build error? :s
[12:35] <Unggnu> hifi, So I guess I should keep my system running :D
[12:36] <suigeneris> hifi, but it is so for the moment, right?
[12:36] <hifi> suigeneris: thats what I was told, at the moment upstart package is broken, do don't upgrade it (yet)
[12:37] <suigeneris> okay
[12:37] <suigeneris> bye
[12:37] <hifi> I was about to told him that in general this is expected in karmic...
[12:37] <hifi> until release, of course
[12:39] <B_lix> hi
[12:39] <B_lix> i have problem in my display
[12:40] <B_lix> im using karmic, when i try to change anything in the display i cant see anything it became black, and i have to boot from the live cd and remove the corg.conf
[12:40] <B_lix> is there any solution to that
[12:40] <B_lix> ???
[12:42] <arand> Huh, is the breakage still happening, I though it was solved yesterday?
[12:43] <JanC> arand: it's partially fixed, but some problems seem to remain
[12:44] <arand> JanC: ah.
[12:47] <arand> Hmm, weeel, let's pull in this batch'o updgrades and see what breaks.
[12:48] <karm_> thanks, stefanlsd
[12:48] <karm_> that did bring gdm back
[12:55] <stefanlsd> karm_: yay :)
[12:58] <arand> Man, why didn't I learn about shift+pgup/dn before *facepalms
[13:03] <eagles0513875> oh my
[13:04] <eagles0513875> just looked at my vm and it seems like there is a serious issue with the kernel O_O
[13:04] <nostahl> any of you guys know a fix for evoltuion not allowing email setup
[13:07] <arand> Yea, the -10 kernel gives a bunch of errors on boot eagles0513875, same for you?
[13:07] <eagles0513875> arand: not during boot
[13:07] <eagles0513875> this was when i was on the kde desktop it happend and now im having random lockups on my vm
[13:07] <eagles0513875> then on my laptop with that kernel or somethign else causing it to not let my mouse trackpad and keyboard work
[13:14] <slytherin> karm_: Are you able to boot the machine completely now?
[13:15] <natewiebe13> cjwatson: any luck?
[13:16] <natewiebe13> im on webchat, so i didnt get a topic during login.. anyone know if i386 is booting yet?
[13:16] <Laibsch> slytherin: Yes, I'm finally back in X
[13:16] <Laibsch> And I won't leave soon ;-)
[13:16] <slytherin> Great
[13:16] <IdleOne> Topic for #ubuntu+1 is: Neither karmic nor the buildds are in a working state right now. This is being worked on. Please check the topic for more updates
[13:16] <Laibsch> thanks for all your help
[13:16] <slytherin> this means I can do upgrade when I go home and expect it to work. :-D
[13:16] <natewiebe13> Laibsch: i386 or amd64?
[13:17] <natewiebe13> IdleOne: thanks
[13:17] <Laibsch> slytherin: No, you can't :-D
[13:17] <Laibsch> It involved a lot of manual hand-holding
[13:17] <Laibsch> natewiebe13: There is the /topic command which let's you read the topic at any point in time.  It should probably work in a web interface, too.  I am running i386.
[13:18] <slytherin> Laibsch: like what?
[13:18] <natewiebe13> Laibsch: awesome.. also, has anyone tried: sudo start dbus, sudo start hal, sudo start network-manager, sudo start gdm ???
[13:19] <Laibsch> cjwatson: the problem with the computer restarting was limited to the time I was chroot'd in the netboot iso.
[13:19] <Laibsch> it does not occur when I am running the system itself
[13:19] <slytherin> Laibsch: Can you tell me what did you do to solve the reboot problem?
[13:20] <Laibsch> slytherin: natewiebe13 gave the essential commands a minute ago
[13:20] <Laibsch> IIRC, that may be all that is necessary
[13:20] <Laibsch> But I fought quite a few battles
[13:20] <Laibsch> I may have forgotten one or the other
[13:20] <Laibsch> upstart did not install without putting up a fight
[13:20] <Rods_Tiger> Ubuntu netbook remix is basically based on gnome isn't it? Is that the plan for the foreseeable, or will the netbook versions move over to a more lightweight basis?
[13:21] <Laibsch> But the key is to manually start those services.  Kudos go to stefanlsd.
[13:21] <Araneidae> Is there a list anywhere of the major changes planned for 9.10? http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha1 is a bit less specific than I was hoping...
[13:21] <cjwatson> those of you who need to start dbus manually: do you have /usr on a separate filesystem?
[13:21] <Laibsch> cjwatson: I do
[13:21] <Laibsch> var, home, usr and boot are separate
[13:22] <Laibsch> Is there a ticket open for the problems that currently creates?
[13:23] <slytherin> cjwatson: I have /usr on separate partition and I faced same problem as Laibsch in mornring when trying to recover the system.
[13:23] <cjwatson> Laibsch: I don't know about the paperwork but we're certainly aware of it
[13:23] <Laibsch> OK
[13:23] <Laibsch> I was wondering if there was anything I could subscribe to to be aware of the progress
[13:24] <cjwatson> sorry, I haven't been keeping track of that
[13:24] <cjwatson> I just uploaded expat to move its library to /lib, which I think will help quite a bit
[13:24] <cjwatson> (since dbus-daemon links to libexpat)
[13:24] <cjwatson> there might be a separate problem with separate /var
[13:25] <slytherin> Araneidae: you should look at alpha4 or 5 link.
[13:26] <nostahl> anyone know a fix for evolution not letting me hit finish key after setting up my emall account
[13:26] <Araneidae> slytherin, ta, I had no idea there were further links!
[13:27] <slytherin> Araneidae: We are close to alpha6.
[13:27] <indus> nostahl: i have had this problem since dapper drake, window too big correct?
[13:27] <Araneidae> In fact, where's the master page for karmic?  Or isn't there one yet...
[13:27] <nostahl> indus nope
[13:27] <nostahl> it jusut does nothing when i hit the button
[13:28] <Michalxo> hello... got problem with automount... my ntfs and windows partitions are not being mounted on system start... I have to manually mount them.. Where's the catch? <does it use corrupted mountall command in booting?>
[13:28] <slytherin> Araneidae: there will be one only when karmic is released.
[13:28] <Araneidae> Sure, no surprises there.  I guess the watchword now is "karmic *will* break"!
[13:30] <MagicFab> is anyone using Language support to add languages and use them per-session (from GDM) or system-wide ? It's changed a lot and it's broken for me :(
[13:37] <James147> Michalxo: Is the drive you want to auto mount listed in /etc/fstab?
[13:37] <Michalxo> yes
[13:38] <Michalxo> I added it by myself.. as I did in predecessors..
[13:38] <James147> Michalxo: Can you pastebin /etc/fstab then?
[13:39] <Michalxo> James147, http://pastebin.org/18309
[13:41] <Rods_Tiger> On the current 9.04 UNR 'quit session' screen, it says for "Restart": "Suspends your session, allowing another user to log in and use the computer." - that can't be right, can it? Or is this fixed on 9.10
[13:42] <James147> Michalxo: try adding  umask=007,gid=46  to the options, and try with the filesystem ntfs rather then ntfs-3g
[13:46] <Michalxo> James147, ntfs has been added as default? :-)
[13:47] <Michalxo> going to test it
[13:47] <James147> Michalxo: not to the options, but replace ntfs-3g with just ntfs -  /dev/sda1 /media/win   ntfs    locale=cz_CZ.utf8,umask=007,gid=46 0       0
[13:48] <Michalxo> AH OK
[13:48] <Michalxo> sry caps :)  so erase defaults too
[13:49] <James147> Michalxo: dont think it matters if defaults is there or not
[13:50] <James147> Michalxo: you can put it in just to be sure, but i think its used when you jsut want tot use the defaults (you need to putsomething as options so fsstab is phased properly)
[13:50] <Michalxo> ah, ok thank you :)
[13:57] <cjwatson> why would ntfs rather than ntfs-3g make any difference?
[13:57] <cjwatson> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 2009-06-23 09:44 /sbin/mount.ntfs -> /bin/ntfs-3g
[13:58] <James147> cjwatson: dont know... but was just a suggestion as i have never used ntfs-3g but know just useing ntfs works :)
[13:58] <cjwatson> Michalxo: what version of the mountall package do you have installed?
[13:58] <cjwatson> James147: you're using ntfs-3g, you just don't know it
[13:59] <James147> cjwatson: i know i was useing ntfs-3g, just dident know what difference it would make changing it in fstab
[13:59] <cjwatson> it shouldn't make any, and ideally we'd find out what Michalxo's problem actually is rather than working around it
[13:59] <cjwatson> since mountall is new and it's best to debug it earlier rather than later
[14:00] <Michalxo> cjwatson, 0.1.5
[14:03] <cjwatson> Michalxo: ok, I'd suggest filing a bug
[14:04] <cjwatson> Michalxo: I think if you put --debug at the end of the boot parameters you may be able to get more information
[14:05] <Michalxo> cjwatson, eh.. where exactly to put that --debug? and from which log to get info? boot? bootstrap.log? dmesg?
[14:06] <cjwatson> syslog, I think
[14:06] <cjwatson> boot parameters? you know, kernel parameters?
[14:06] <Michalxo> not exactly
[14:07] <Michalxo> *not at all? :-/ :-)
[14:08] <Michalxo> btw, I think my gdm greeter is messed up too
[14:10] <cjwatson> press 'e' at the grub menu, go to the line starting with 'linux', and add ' --debug' to the end of it
[14:10] <arand> Heh, The software store has arrived.
[14:10] <Michalxo> ah, got it
[14:10] <Michalxo> cjwatson, wait for me here pls :D
[14:11] <arand> cjwatson: You want me to try that as well (I get a buch of kernel errors on boot already)?
[14:11] <cjwatson> btw I'm not the best person to actually debug this; I'm just trying to advise on gathering data for a bug report
[14:11] <cjwatson> arand: no
[14:11] <cjwatson> arand: "kernel errors"? I suspect you'll find they aren't actually from the kernel ...
[14:13] <arand> May be, haven't looked closer into it, just assumed since they appeared early in the process...
[14:14] <cjwatson> arand: the only way for anyone to figure out what your problem is will be if you can quote the messages *exactly*
[14:14] <cjwatson> don't paraphrase, don't summarise
[14:15] <arand> Well, it's on a vm, so I could do that if it's of use.
[14:16] <Michalxo_> cjwatson, I get it mounted, but probably that ntfs worked :-/
[14:16] <Michalxo_> cjwatson, try with ntfs-3g too?
[14:16] <cjwatson> yes
[14:16] <Michalxo_> ok
[14:16] <indus> hello all
[14:16] <indus> i see that the channel topic is still the same as yesterday
[14:17] <cdE|Woozy> does anyone know what could cause drm to be loaded before agpgart-intel? it happened on two boots today (sometimes it's working, i.e. agpgart-intel is loaded before drm) and unfortunately breaks kms
[14:18] <Michalxo_> cjwatson, http://pastebin.org/18311
[14:18] <BluesKaj> simple question , too early to update ?
[14:18] <indus> so is the breakage been partially fixed ?
[14:18] <Michalxo_> be back with ntfs-3g
[14:18] <Michalxo_> BluesKaj, yes :)
[14:18] <indus> iam gonna update in a few hours
[14:19] <cjwatson> indus: partially. there are still some known problems.
[14:19] <cjwatson> (well, I mean, there are ALWAYS known problems)
[14:19] <BluesKaj> ok, I'll go about trying to fix my graphics driver issue , unless it's related to kernel source too
[14:19] <indus> which known ones?
[14:19] <indus> cjwatson: still wont get to X?
[14:20] <cjwatson> sorry, I'm really not going to spend all my time enumerating bugs here
[14:20] <cjwatson> Michalxo_: hmm, maybe that wasn't quite the right debugging approach
[14:20] <indus> k
[14:20] <indus> do u recommend updating now?
[14:20] <cjwatson> if you have to ask, no
[14:20] <indus> i guess ill update anyway , i got nothing to lose
[14:20] <indus> :)\\
[14:26] <Michalxo> cjwatson, http://pastebin.org/18314
[14:26] <cjwatson> Michalxo: I think a better approach is to forget about the kernel parameter (sorry) and instead edit /etc/init/mountall.conf and add ' --debug' to the end of the line starting 'exec mountall'
[14:27] <Michalxo> :)
[14:27] <cjwatson> I made a mistake - --debug as a kernel parameter only turns on debugging for upstart itself
[14:27] <Michalxo> too much info, ha? :)
[14:27] <Michalxo> ah
[14:27] <Michalxo> ok
[14:27] <cjwatson> WAIT
[14:27] <Michalxo> yes :)
[14:27] <cjwatson> unfortunately, mountall only prints debugging information to the console
[14:28] <Michalxo> # temporary, until we have progress indication
[14:28] <Michalxo> # and output capture (next week :p)
[14:28] <Michalxo> console output
[14:28] <Michalxo> :))
[14:28] <cjwatson> the trick I used was to press Ctrl-s after it was done, and then you have a bit of time to press Shift-PgUp and take a picture of the output
[14:28] <cjwatson> and then Ctrl-q when you're finished
[14:28] <Michalxo> photo will be better, right? :)
[14:28] <cjwatson> yes
[14:29] <cjwatson> I don't think the console output thing you pasted is directly relevant here, but never mind that
[14:29] <Michalxo> exec mountall --debug --daemon $force_fsck $fsck_fix $tmptime ?
[14:29] <cjwatson> yes
[14:31] <cjwatson> Michalxo: Scott asked me to ask you to join #ubuntu-boot so he can debug this
[14:31] <cjwatson> (er, please don't everyone join there, it's a development channel and it'll be easier if people only join when needed)
[14:44] <ripps> hmm.... my wmctrl stopped working
[14:49] <dto> i get choppy sound playback in Audacity (using pulse plugin) on karmic. Sound Preferences shows Audacity rapidly appearing and disappearing as a client to pulseaudio
[14:51] <dto> also, realtime kernel won't boot. i see "udev killed by ABRT signal" and then "shpchp: cannot reserve MMIO region" then it hangs about 10 sec into bootup.
[14:51] <dto> hmm, new rt kernel update. hold on
[14:56] <dto> the new realtime kernel works!
[14:58] <nostahl> whats the realtime kernel do
[15:00] <QPrime> is it just me or are the latest init scripts seriously broken?
[15:01] <gord> QPrime:  please see the topic
[15:01] <QPrime> *grin* thanks ;)
[15:03] <Michalxo_> guys? anyone https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/429249 ?
[15:12] <dto> yay, ardour runs :_)
[15:20] <Cyberkilla> There are more status messages on my screen than actual conversation:P
[15:20] <philip__> my laptop screen refuses to turn on after closing the lid
[15:20] <philip__> I have to use an external monitor
[15:21] <philip__> Any ideas to get the screen to come back on? (this has happened before once, no idea how I was able to get it back on)
[15:22] <MagicFab> philip__, as a workaround, enable CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE
[15:26] <philip__> MagicFab: enable it in Keyboard Shortcuts?
[15:27] <MagicFab> philip__, yes
[15:28] <nixternal> alrighty, what's the trick to boot up with encrypted drives today?
[15:29] <MagicFab> System > Preferences > Keyboard, then Layouts > Layout options... > Key sequenece to kill the X server > mark the check box
[15:29] <MagicFab> nixternal, existing drive or new one ?
[15:30] <nixternal> existing
[15:30] <philip__> MagicFab: I even rebooted the machine, yet the screen wouldn't turn on. The Dell logo blinked real fast and that was it
[15:42] <TLF> hello
[15:42] <TLF> when is going alpha6 to be released?
[15:44] <Dr_Willis> When its ready :)
[15:54] <TLF> Dr_Willis: I see
[15:54] <TLF> Dr_Willis: and do you know if the migration assistant (the new version, supposedly not included in ubiquity) will be included?
[15:55] <Dr_Willis> No idea. Ive never had that thing work right .. so i never even try it any more.
[15:56] <BluesKaj> migration assistant ...for upgrading a distro ?
[15:57] <Dr_Willis> BluesKaj:  :) i was wondering about that also.. but i normally just do clean installs..
[15:58] <Heikki123> update-manager --dist-upgrade
[15:58] <BluesKaj> Dr_Willis, I was just asking , what is it ?"
[15:58] <BluesKaj> :)
[15:59] <Dr_Willis> BluesKaj:  oh - its a tool when you install that scans your windows partition and makes linux users with  the same username, and copoes over stuff like... err.... wallpaper.. and  MyDocuments.. and thats about it.. i think
[15:59] <Dr_Willis> Dident really do much. for all the  work it tried.
[16:01] <BluesKaj> my old memory is a bit short today
[16:01] <eolo999> hi, i have gnome 2.27.9? installed and purged pulseaudio  (don't want my cpu boiled by a 100% process!) but i cannot  find a way to have a volume-control applet of any kind.  Someone can suggest me a solution?
[16:02] <SKB> alsamixer?
[16:02] <JanC> eolo999: if PA uses 100% CPU there is something wrong with its configuration
[16:02] <Heikki123> hey, i also have a pulseaudio problem... in skype i can't change anything, i only have a list that contains one option: Pulseuaudio srever
[16:02] <cheers__> ah good, thought it was just me
[16:02] <cheers__> did a reinstall yesterday
[16:04] <eolo999> JanC: i'm quite tired of trying to solve pulseaudio related stuff. Every time i have pulseaudio installed i have problems, so now i'm so bored that i prefer 'apt-get remove --purge pulseaudio' without bothering anymore on which are the causes of the problems.
[16:04] <AlanBell> anyone tried karmic on the OLPC XO?
[16:05] <JanC> well, I never had any serious issues like that with PA (except maybe occasionaly in development versions)
[16:05] <eolo999> JanC: so, i'm very unlucky!
[16:05] <BluesKaj> eolo999, I agree 100% , pulse audio isn't required with most pci cards , even some onboards will use the kernel module with alsa
[16:06] <JanC> PA takes about 0% CPU here
[16:06] <SKB> no PA here :P
[16:06] <eolo999> JanC: I noticed googling that many people has problems with PA so that it seems that 'you' are lucky
[16:06] <JanC> actually, most people have no issues with PA  ;)
[16:06] <eolo999> SKB: how did you get a volume control applet in gnome panel?
[16:07] <Heikki123> my firefox is using 100% cpu :D
[16:07] <BluesKaj> PA is a pet project for some devs here and i don't know why it;s being included by default when it causes so many ppl so many problems
[16:07] <JanC> which doesn't mean the issues for the other people aren't important of course
[16:07] <SKB> i can adjust the volume on my speakers
[16:07] <SKB> and volume applet is rather useless
[16:08] <eolo999> BluesKaj: i don't understand why gnome 2.27/8 don't give us the opportunity to easily remove PA?
[16:08] <BluesKaj> JanC, hang around , you'll find a lot of ppl have probs with PA
[16:08] <SKB> you can use alsamixer to change volume without applets
[16:08] <JanC> BluesKaj: I know more people trhan hang around here, and most of them have no issues (except with crap like skype etc.)
[16:08] <eolo999> I find that the switch to pulse audio should have waited for a more mature tool!
[16:08] <BluesKaj> eolo999, same goes for kde ..even if one purges it's merely disabled not actually removed
[16:09] <alankila> eolo999: because it's serious work to keep something you regard as fundamental component at an arm's length from everything else, it seems.
[16:09] <alankila> pulseaudio is definitely removable, but last time I removed it the end result was that gconfd ended up in some kind of cpu-spinning loop because it tried to constantly do something with PA but couldn't find it
[16:10] <eolo999> till jaunty it was easy to remove all dependencies. In karmic it's a big problem
[16:10] <genii-around> Well, I'm on my backup machine now at work. Laptop wouldn't suspend last night and eventually ran out of battery, etc. Installing fresh again now
[16:10] <BluesKaj> yeah, the kernel module i bet, alankila
[16:11] <JanC> if PA takes so much CPU, IIRC that's most likely because your ALSA driver says it supports a sample rate that it doesn't or something like that
[16:11] <eagles0513875> hey BluesKaj
[16:11] <eagles0513875> hey genii
[16:11] <BluesKaj> hi eagles0513875
[16:12] <eagles0513875> genii-around: well i have no keyboard and mouse between last night and today somethign happened and i had my laptop shutdown
[16:12]  * genii-around makes a fresh pot of coffee
[16:12] <genii-around> eagles0513875: When I went to boot up later even grub was gone.
[16:12] <alankila> well, I examined pulseaudio a bit in the past. I used to have relatively high CPU use form pulseaudio even when no sample rate conversion was required. It turned out that the glitch-free codepath asked kernel for the current time so often that this was actually a serious CPU drain.
[16:13] <eagles0513875> ouch genii-around :(
[16:13] <BluesKaj> JanC, I dumped PA cuz the sound is choppy and distorted, as soon as I dumped it my audio became smooth and clean
[16:13] <eolo999> JanC: ok, i'll reinstall PA and for the tenth time try to resolve its weird issues. I promise myself it's the last time.
[16:13] <eagles0513875> im tempted to reinstall so i dont have an upgraded version from jaunty
[16:13] <alankila> almost in a loop trying to do something with gettimeofday. It's been a while and since then they seem to have fixed it because that particular bug is gone... but it isn't always resampling.
[16:14] <BluesKaj> eagles0513875, read the MOTD ... :)
[16:14] <eagles0513875> blarg
[16:14] <eagles0513875> i coudl just do a clean install of jaunty cuz i know that work slol
[16:14] <eagles0513875> works
[16:14] <BluesKaj> not today
[16:15] <BluesKaj> ok jaunty ..good jaunty prt prt :)
[16:15] <JanC> I'm sure there are some bugs in PA, but there are a lot more bugs in various ALSA drivers   ;)
[16:15] <BluesKaj> pet pet
[16:15] <MagicFab> philip__, Intel ?
[16:15] <JanC> and reporting those issues helps to get them resolved (one day...)
[16:16] <philip__> MagicFab: yes
[16:16] <eolo999> JanC: I did it, so many times...
[16:16] <eolo999> some times you get tired of a tool ;)
[16:16] <BluesKaj> ther kernel modules contain the drivers alsa just acts as a link/controller , from what i've been told ..there are lots of opinions about that issue as well
[16:17] <alankila> resample-method = src-sinc-medium-quality
[16:17] <alankila> Don't really mind to waste CPU when it goes for a good cause, though. Like high-quality resampling.
[16:17] <JanC> BluesKaj: the kernel modules are part of "ALSA" too
[16:18] <durt> hello folks, anyone report successful reboots with latest upgrades? including new kernel?
[16:19] <natewiebe13> durt: not here
[16:19] <alankila> durt: I had a pile of fail due to upstart-related changes this morning. No network-manager, gnome didn't start, or at least the panel was broken...
[16:19] <alankila> but a new dist-upgrade fixed it.
[16:19] <Heikki123> uuh, i was just going to update,... maybe it's better to wait for a while ;)
[16:19] <BluesKaj> JanC, are you absolutely sure about that, cuz there are ppl here who will dispute your statement. Mostly ppl who discuss issues which boil down to semantics .
[16:19] <natewiebe13> alankila: you have it working?
[16:19] <alankila> natewiebe13: gnome & nm? yes.
[16:20] <natewiebe13> alankila: i used sudo apt-get upgrade
[16:20] <natewiebe13> alankila: what should i have used?
[16:20] <tobixen> I got the system working this morning, but only after running "dpkg repair" from the rescue menu
[16:20] <alankila> probably just dist-upgrade. upgrade makes smaller, more conservative updates because it does not allow packages to replace other packages.
[16:20] <alankila> so it allows a package to be replaced by a new version only, in other words.
[16:21] <natewiebe13> alankila: command?
[16:21] <alankila> "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade" is what I use.
[16:21] <durt> not sure if upgrade would bring in a new kernel...
[16:21] <natewiebe13> upgrade brought a kernel update
[16:22] <durt> not worried about the above command, it's the reboot that scares me :C
[16:22] <aboSamoor> is the daily image now working ?
[16:22] <alankila> I guess it follows because the metapackage for kernel references a new package and the new package isn't installed already, so upgrade considers it fair to install it. It's like any other dependency... But then again, who knows. I'd prefer if the whole "upgrade" option didn't exist.
[16:23] <alankila> There was a point in the past when no serious debian systems administrator would have blindly done a dist-upgrade, but would have resolved that type of conflicts manually.
[16:24] <alankila> but now we're just end users and don't really care and expect a dist-upgrade to just work. It's either progress or regress, I'm not quite sure which.
[16:25] <Guest73611> help me!!!!
[16:25] <Guest73611> Ubuntu don't boot
[16:25] <AlanBell> Guest73611: are you using Karmic?
[16:25] <durt> I think I got my answer :/
[16:26] <Guest73611> yep
[16:26] <AlanBell> it is a known problem, happened to pretty much everyone yesterday/today
[16:26] <JanC> BluesKaj: you can grep the kernel source for "alsa" or "ALSA" if you want  ;)
[16:26] <mennapuzza> AlanBell, and now?
[16:26] <aboSamoor> mennapuzza: http://roderick-greening.blogspot.com/2009/09/recover-non-booting-linux-system.html
[16:27] <David-T> is the topic out of date now?
[16:27] <David-T> i.e. is it fixed?
[16:27] <mennapuzza> aboSamoor, thx
[16:27] <AlanBell> mennapuzza: can you get to a command prompt at all?
[16:28] <aboSamoor> should I download the daily image or the alpha 5 to fix my non-booting ubuntu ?
[16:28] <mennapuzza> AlanBell, no..
[16:28] <durt> David-T, I think it's more than just one 'it'. It seems the devs have decided now is the time to introduce a lot of stuff they've been working on.
[16:28] <mennapuzza> Now I download a livecd
[16:29] <Heikki123> ah, there is a livecd now?
[16:29] <AlanBell> mennapuzza: in which case, a live cd of some kind is your way forward
[16:29] <mennapuzza> AlanBell, thx so much
[16:29] <durt> we're still doing chroot to recover from hung boots?
[16:30] <David-T> currently i have no idea if my system will come back after a reboot/crash/powercut, but i also have no idea whether dist-upgrade would get it in to a state where it would survive a reboot
[16:30] <durt> David-T, ditto here...
[16:32] <cagonto> online boxing game http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html
[16:33] <AlanBell> I have a fully updated karmic box that has booted
[16:33] <AlanBell> I am not in a great hurry to reboot again though
[16:34] <durt> AlanBell, thank you.
[16:40] <solarion> anyone have any idea why printing would automatically rotate to portrait and scale the image (very odd-looking) despite it fitting best in landscape?
[16:40] <solarion> also, why is the page orientation grayed out?
[16:40] <bobfox321> cannot find boot options on 9.10 beta, getting too many boot up lines
[16:41] <natewiebe13> apt-get dist-upgrade worked.. there was an update for dbus, i think that did the trick
[16:41] <natewiebe13> im now on fully usable karmic [thumbs up]
[16:42] <bobfox321> skype works awesome on karmic
[16:43] <BluesKaj> JanC, like I said alsa is linked to the kernel module which include drivers for pci cards and some onboards , hence the problem with PA ..it's just another layer trying to act as a soundserver that isn't required in most cases.
[16:44] <solarion> I think this may well just be evince
[16:46] <bobfox321> cannot find boot options on karmic beta, getting too many boot up lines
[16:51] <CydeSwype> okay what'd i miss?  safe to reboot yet?
[16:53] <BluesKaj> CydeSwype, apparently not
[16:56] <CydeSwype> drat
[16:56] <solarion> filed bug #430811; would appreciate confirmation
[16:56] <randy_> Can I run postfix and sendmail on ubuntu-server 9.04 at the same time?
[16:57] <BluesKaj> yeah, I have kernel source issue with nvidia graphics right now ..the default has me in a resolution that doesn't work well with my samsung monitor
[16:58] <hggdh> ok, what happened to upstart?
[16:58] <solarion> hggdh: it was put in its place. ;)
[16:59] <hggdh> and broke my reboot... udev, network-manager, hal, etc
[16:59] <hggdh> none of them auto-started
[16:59] <hggdh> is this already known? Took me about half an hour to figure it out
[17:00] <CydeSwype> hggdh, yes it's known
[17:00] <hggdh> do you have the bug #?
[17:00] <CydeSwype> they've been reworking the boot sequence since yesterday
[17:00] <CydeSwype> i do not
[17:00] <hggdh> k, probably the kernel folks will known about it
[17:00] <JanC> there are probably 100 bug # by now  ;)
[17:01] <hggdh> :-)
[17:01] <hggdh> not really, most will just get stopped there...
[17:01] <hggdh> heh. The joys of running the bleeding edge ;-)
[17:01] <CydeSwype> i'm updating a twitter account here (https://twitter.com/UbuntuPlus1) if you want to follow that (rather than lurk here and filter through everything)
[17:02] <hggdh> thanks, CydeSwype
[17:04] <hggdh> its recoverable (at least for me) by manually 'start'ing dbus, hal, network-manager, and gdm/kdm
[17:05] <ali12341> i manually started X and it segfaulted
[17:05] <ali12341> meh, i nuked it and installed 9.04 anyway
[17:07] <hggdh> X will not work nicely (er, at all) without dbus
[17:08] <Pici> X will, your desktop environment of choice wont.
[17:09] <hggdh> Pici: indeed. I stand corrected
[17:10] <hggdh> well, will try again. There I go for a restart... will (hopefully) be back in a few minutes
[17:11] <Pici> Good luck
[17:14] <NoelJB> Is there a race condition with notify-osd?  With Jaunty, on startup I see messages related to network connection, avahi discovery (service discovery applet), etc.  With Karmic, I see only one message from Notify-OSD on boot.  But if I bounce my connection, all of the notifications display as expected.
[17:15] <NoelJB> this does not appear to be an issue related to the recent upstart changes.  its been an issue for a while.
[17:15] <solarion> more sucks; can the livecd get less already?
[17:16] <Q-FUNK> is there any work-around to get networking from inside a chroot to work again?
[17:17] <solarion> QPrime: if it works outside, it should work outside
[17:17] <solarion> you might need to cp /etc/resolv.conf in
[17:17] <solarion> also mount --bind /proc proc; mount --bind /sys sys; mount --bind /dev/ dev
[17:18] <solarion> if you're doing this for security, that might be a bad idea, tho
[17:18] <solarion> but networking should still work
[17:18] <Machtin> hey guys.. i can't boot. Says something about udev and something in  /lib/udev/rules was not okay.. i think Name="%k" or so.. idea, anyone?
[17:18] <Machtin> can't boot recovery mode either
[17:18] <QPrime> solarion: wrong 'Q' ;)
[17:19] <solarion> QPrime: right, sorry
[17:19] <QPrime> *grin* gotta love tab-completion.
[17:20] <solarion> yeah, it's special
[17:21] <CydeSwype> Machtin, check topic
[17:21] <arvind_khadri> hi, i have installed openssh-server on the computer i want to ssh into, its on the same network..but  there i have logged in a different user, the client says that there is no route to host. what to do?
[17:21] <cjwatson> Machtin: the NAME="%k" warning is just a warning, it isn't fatal
[17:21] <cjwatson> so your problem is something else
[17:21] <Machtin> oh, i see.
[17:22] <CydeSwype> mornin' cjwatson (or afternoon)
[17:22] <cjwatson> afternoon verging on evening
[17:22] <Q-FUNK> solarion: right. resol.conf indeed, except that this network is not static. copying the resolv.conf every time gets problematic.
[17:22] <DanaG> hmm, there's a pavucontrol 0.9.9 out now... any chance of it getting packaged?
[17:22] <mac_v>  /tpoic
[17:22] <mac_v> oops!
[17:22] <DanaG> oh wait, it already IS.
[17:22] <cjwatson> btw, newer libexpat1 and dbus packages from a few hours ago should help out people with separate /usr or /var who had problems with dbus starting
[17:23] <cjwatson> or not starting, rather
[17:23] <solarion> Q-FUNK: mount --bind?
[17:23] <solarion> write a little app to copy it every time it changes?
[17:23] <solarion> (easy to do with fnotify)
[17:24] <solarion> could even call it "fcp"
[17:24] <Machtin> CydeSwype: err, i don't have a chance to boot at all, right?
[17:24] <solarion> fcp <list of files> dest
[17:26] <RichardWolfVI> Hello, I'm having several issues since the latest updates.
[17:26] <RichardWolfVI> I have no Usplash at startup and now compiz seems broken, I'm stuck in metacity with a terrible performance.
[17:26] <jpds> RichardWolfVI: Welcome to the club.
[17:27] <RichardWolfVI> Well, at least I got to fix GRUB
[17:27]  * emonkey fixed the most things with a live CD and a chroot
[17:27] <RichardWolfVI> I almost fainted when GRUB said that there were no boot devices.
[17:27] <Q-FUNK> solarion: mount to link a file accross filesystems? :)
[17:27] <Machtin> hey, i couldn't boot at all.. i couldn't even do aptitude upgrade, since I have no access to anything :)
[17:28] <RichardWolfVI> emonkey: Did a chroot too.
[17:28] <stefanlsd> can someone do me a favour please and pastebin a grub menu.lst file (i think /boot/menu.lst or /boot/grub/menu.lst). mine is non existant :)
[17:28] <RichardWolfVI> Yes, I couldn't boot yesterday either
[17:28] <RichardWolfVI> stefan
[17:28] <RichardWolfVI> boot into a Live CD
[17:29] <RichardWolfVI> get into a chroot and purge GRUB and its dependencies
[17:29] <arvind_khadri> any ideas?
[17:29] <RichardWolfVI> update pacages and reinstall grub
[17:29] <RichardWolfVI> *packages
[17:30] <stefanlsd> RichardWolfVI: ok. i can give that a try.  grub2 is the package i should be using right?
[17:30] <Machtin> emonkey: did you recover access to your system with that?
[17:30] <RichardWolfVI> stefanlsd: yes, but it's just a metapackage
[17:30] <stefanlsd> RichardWolfVI: ok. thx
[17:30] <RichardWolfVI> get rid of grub-pc and grub-common as well
[17:30] <RichardWolfVI> oh, and os-prober
[17:30] <hggdh> OK. latest dbus and n-m makes reboot better, but not yet stable
[17:31] <emonkey> Machtin: yes I upgrade packages and reconfigured some, deactivated proprietary nvidia drivers and after that it worked again
[17:31] <RichardWolfVI> Gosh, a Q6600 with 4 GB RAM shouldn't be this slow :(
[17:32] <Machtin> emonkey: any hint on which packages to upgrade/reconfigure/whatever?
[17:32] <emonkey> Machtin: good question, i upgraded just all which where new in the repos
[17:33] <CydeSwype> yeah, and compiz was very slow for me with karmic.  i've always had to kill off compiz and revert to metacity as part of my boot
[17:33]  * emonkey has no compiz, I use kde
[17:33] <CydeSwype> nvidia-settings wants to see nvidia (not nv) in the xorg.conf, but that has the side-effect of initiating compiz
[17:33] <CydeSwype> ah
[17:34] <RichardWolfVI> emonkey: KDE also has compiz, jus sayin'
[17:34] <RichardWolfVI> *just
[17:34] <Machtin> emonkey: hm, kay.. i just rebooted 15 minutes ago or so.. should be the latest packages.. it's chroot /dev/root-partition /, not more, right?
[17:34] <Dr_Willis> kde has composting I think. is the 'proper' term isent it?
[17:34] <emonkey> RichardWolfVI: yes but i only use the desktop effects provided by kwin
[17:34] <Dr_Willis> Compositing. :)
[17:34] <virtuald> yay composting <3
[17:35] <RichardWolfVI> well, Metacity has compositing also, but right now is slower than ever
[17:35] <Dr_Willis> Plasmoids and Compost! and Gangleons!
[17:35] <Machtin> and then: how did you deactivate the nvidia-driver? simply wrote nv in the xorg.conf, emonkey?
[17:35] <emonkey> yes and they're not working right know because I use nv and not nvidia . Unfortunately everything is a bit slow withoout, but better than no system ... ;)
[17:35] <emonkey> Machtin: yes
[17:36] <Machtin> very well.. will try that too :) will be back soon *waves*
[17:36] <emonkey> My KDE deactivated compositing because of too slow animations providied by the oss-driver
[17:37] <emonkey> *provided
[17:38] <RichardWolfVI> Is there any lnk on this breakage?
[17:38] <emonkey> don't know but there are two others in our channel with this problem, at least one because of grub
[17:41]  * emonkey had only a 8.04 for the chroot ... :)  I should burn a new CD as soon as this problems are fixed.
[17:41] <cjwatson> RichardWolfVI: advising people to remove grub-pc in favour of grub just makes it harder for us to diagnose and fix problems in grub2 :(
[17:42] <RichardWolfVI> cjwatson: I wasn't advising that
[17:42] <cjwatson> "get rid of grub-pc and grub-common as well"?
[17:42] <RichardWolfVI> I'm advising purging and reinstalling grub, whichever version they are using
[17:42] <cjwatson> sorry, I read that as advising him to remove it permanently
[17:42] <cjwatson> ok
[17:44] <RichardWolfVI> My system ewas working almost well, but after further upgrades,. everything is very sluggish
[17:45] <kingspook> In Karmic, where is grub's menu.lst?
[17:46] <RichardWolfVI> kingspook: Can't boot either?
[17:46] <cjwatson> kingspook: grub2 uses grub.cfg, not menu.lst
[17:46] <kingspook> I can boot.
[17:47] <cjwatson> (although for many things you should actually edit /etc/default/grub instead)
[17:47] <Nafai> Still having problems :(
[17:47] <kingspook> Well, I'm looking to change boot order.
[17:47] <virtuald> is it safe to reboot now?
[17:47] <cjwatson> kingspook: in what way exactly?
[17:47] <kingspook> Against all wisdom, I'm going to put Karmic Koala on the lab machines, but they need to default boot into Windows.
[17:48] <RichardWolfVI> virtuald: At least I got to have a graphical session now
[17:48] <virtuald> :)
[17:48] <virtuald> nice
[17:48] <cjwatson> kingspook: well, that's possible, but it would be easier to just make it have a different default at the menu. Would that be acceptable?
[17:48] <virtuald> does things crash at random?
[17:48] <kingspook> cjwatson: I'm not sure I follow...
[17:48] <virtuald> i know pulseaudio does but other than that?
[17:48] <RichardWolfVI> kingspook: Karmic is broken right now, what a little while
[17:48] <RichardWolfVI> at least for the next Alpha
[17:49] <cjwatson> kingspook: do you care specifically about the order, or would it be enough for it to default to Windows even if Windows isn't the first thing in the menu?
[17:49] <RichardWolfVI> *wait
[17:49] <kingspook> cjwatson: default to Windows, order irrelevant.
[17:50] <virtuald> how did that apt-listbugs project that i read about on the mailing lists a while ago turn out?
[17:50] <nonix4> Does /etc/event.d exist in Karmic?
[17:50] <drs305> kingspook: Take a look at this link about Grub 2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2
[17:50] <cjwatson> kingspook: ok, so look in /boot/grub/grub.cfg and fish out the name of the menu item for Windows
[17:50] <kingspook> RichardWolfVI: Well, I need to put Linux on now, and I don't feel like doing it again in a month...plus, it'd be good for the CS students to learn to deal with the occasional OS bug...they are in the OS class after all...
[17:50] <Nafai> Is there an ETA for a fix for the current main problems?
[17:50] <cjwatson> kingspook: here, it's "Windows Vista (loader) (on /dev/sda3)"
[17:51] <virtuald> i have an /etc/event.d/ with control-alt-delete and sulogin in it
[17:51] <Machtin> *sigh* didn't really help to replace nvidia with nv.. still hangs on booting, emonkey :(
[17:51] <cjwatson> kingspook: taking that as an example, edit /etc/default/grub, find the GRUB_DEFAULT= line, and make it read GRUB_DEFAULT="Windows Vista (loader) (on /dev/sda3)" (the quotes are important)
[17:51] <cjwatson> kingspook: then run 'sudo update-grub'
[17:51] <cjwatson> that ought to do it
[17:51] <emonkey> Machtin: I'm sorry ...
[17:51] <Machtin> not your fault!
[17:51] <kingspook> cjwatson: sounds good, I'll test it out.
[17:51] <cjwatson> Nafai: the bulk of them should be fixed now
[17:51] <Machtin> just wanted to 'report back'
[17:52] <Machtin> though, didn't even get chroot to work.. but i could mount the fs.
[17:52] <emonkey> thank you :)
[17:52] <cjwatson> (FWIW I don't think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2 documents this use of GRUB_DEFAULT yet)
[17:52] <Nafai> cjwatson: So all I should need to do is the chroot stuff and apt-get dist-upgrade and then reboot?
[17:52] <cjwatson> Nafai: well, it depends what problems you're having
[17:53] <Nafai> udev and fscking all the time are the main ones right now
[17:53] <Nafai> At least the ones I see, perhaps more after I resolve those
[17:53] <cjwatson> fscking all the time is an entirely separate problem that's actually not directly related to the current boot extravaganza
[17:53] <cjwatson> there's some work being done on that and the most recent kernel *may* help (but may not, there are several interlocking causes)
[17:53] <cjwatson> "udev" - be more specific
[17:54] <Nafai> Sure, let me try booting and see what the exact messages are
[17:55] <Nafai> uknown key 'SYMLINK{unique}  in /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules and a few others
[17:55] <Nafai> But it is not stopping me from getting to gdm, so perhaps that is negligible
[17:55] <cjwatson> that's just a warning
[17:55] <Nafai> ok
[17:56] <cjwatson> it's not fixed yet
[17:56] <Nafai> I'm able to log in now, so I'm less concerned :)
[17:56] <Nafai> Thanks for the help
[17:56] <cjwatson> right, the libexpat1 and dbus fixes were the main relevant ones today
[17:56] <kingspook> daemon startup (ie. sshd) isn't also changed in koala, is it?
[17:56] <cjwatson> plus a few things to try to reduce the incidence of people getting hosed by partial upgrades
[17:56] <cjwatson> kingspook: some daemon startup is, but not sshd yet
[17:57] <kingspook> Huh, is the next alpha still on schedule to be released tomorrow?
[17:58] <cjwatson> so the release manager tells me
[17:59] <kingspook> Well...maybe I'll wait until tomorrow then.
[17:59] <kingspook> It'll be cutting it a bit close.
[18:09] <dto> hey Nafai
[18:10] <dto> desktop notifications come up about an inch below the top right corner of the screen, not right up against the panel where they should go. what do i do?
[18:11] <DanaG> It's a "feature".
[18:11] <RichardWolfVI> dio: they are supposed to be that way now
[18:12] <DanaG> It looks really stupid.
[18:12] <DanaG> The least they could do, would be to swap the two... that is, normal ones at the top, volume-change ones at the bottom.
[18:12]  * nonix4 ponders why images built with ltsp-build-client only manage to boot for --dist hardy and earlier, but not karmic nor jaunty when the command itself is ran on jaunty...
[18:12] <RichardWolfVI> well, it asn't as dumb as putting them in the middle
[18:12] <Michalxo> dto, :D
[18:12] <Michalxo> update ;)
[18:13] <Machtin> what's the reason that it tells me "permission denied", if i try to chroot into my mounted root-partition (when i'm on a live cd with root or sudo)
[18:13] <RichardWolfVI> It seems that Ubuntu way is fixing what it's not broken.
[18:13] <Michalxo> dto, or I think It's configurable by 0.21 or so
[18:13] <Michalxo> mac_v, sudo?
[18:13] <Michalxo> Machtin, sudo
[18:13] <DanaG> oh, and they broke the old-style brightness control in gnome-power-manager, too.
[18:13] <Michalxo> sorry mac_v
[18:14] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[18:14] <Machtin> Michalxo: i DO use sudo
[18:14] <Michalxo> sudo -s ? :)
[18:14] <dto> oh yeah, volume is at the top, whereas pidgin notificiations are 1 row down
[18:14] <Machtin> nah, did sudo su
[18:14] <mac_v> dto: thats the design
[18:15] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: Sudo?
[18:15] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: Sudo?
[18:15] <Michalxo> well.... I'd love more then 2 bubbles... especially for more messages from IMs..
[18:15] <DanaG> I don't think I'll ever come to like notify-osd.
[18:15] <dto> can't they just stack from the top so that it only displays 2 rows if there are actually two concurrent notifications?
[18:15] <Michalxo> dto, as they said before, they are experimenting :)
[18:15] <Machtin> RichardWolfVI: pardon?
[18:15] <mac_v> dto: the bubbles are now split as sync ans async
[18:15] <dto> ok :)
[18:15] <mac_v> and*
[18:15] <Michalxo> I even mailed Mark Shuttleworh and he said me that :)
[18:16] <TLF> wow
[18:16] <dto> well, everything is great. my realtime kernel is working fine for low-latency audio, and both processors are recognized
[18:16] <TLF> still no migration assistant in the latest daily build?
[18:16] <virtuald> why is my system clock UTC when it should be CEST?
[18:16] <Michalxo> TLF, well.. he's a great guy, emailed me back in few hours :)
[18:16] <virtuald> now the fucking store's closed :(
[18:16] <Pici> !language | virtuald
[18:17] <TLF> Michalxo: who is "he"?
[18:17] <mac_v> virtuald: where to check system clock?
[18:17] <virtuald> yeah yeah
[18:17] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin. Would you give us the full input/output?
[18:17] <Michalxo> TLF, nevermind ;)
[18:17] <virtuald> in the gnome panel and this irssi window
[18:17] <TLF> Michalxo: oh, mark shuttlework
[18:17] <TLF> Michalxo: did it said something about migration assistant? :)
[18:17] <mac_v> or rather > mark shuttleworth
[18:17] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: What you wrote in the terminal, and the output
[18:18] <DanaG> I've also always thought that having volume-change wait for the notification OF volume change... is a bad idea.
[18:18] <Machtin> RichardWolfVI: well.. I'm not on the live cd any more..
[18:18] <DanaG> It results in horrible lag.
[18:18] <Michalxo> TLF, heh.. sorry, nope :-)
[18:18] <DanaG> I should make a video of that, some time.
[18:18] <TLF> Michalxo: oh :(
[18:18] <RichardWolfVI> Oh well...
[18:18] <Michalxo> DanaG, you can always use that applet, it works OK :)
[18:19] <DanaG> oh, and now I get no brightness-change bubble at all under gnome-stracciatella-session.
[18:19] <Machtin> RichardWolfVI: but i googled.. it applied to this: http://mandrivausers.org/index.php?/topic/36838-why-cant-i-perform-chroot-to-mandriva-from-ubuntu/
[18:20]  * DanaG has to go elsewhere now.
[18:20] <DanaG> bye for now.
[18:20] <Machtin> byebye
[18:24] <TLF> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-migration-assistant
[18:24] <TLF> what it does mean the latest "deferred" here? That it will be launched along alpha6?
[18:26] <Machtin> Come on.. i just want to be able to boot again :o
[18:26] <[31d1]> dagnabbit my bug got marked as a dupe
[18:27] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: give me the out put of sudo fdisk -l
[18:27] <Seren__> hi there, is it safe to upgrade upstart/usplash now ? (on the main karmic repo )
[18:27] <Machtin> hm, can't.. am on windows now.. but sdb3 is the disc i want to mount
[18:28] <dutchie> can I upgrade now?
[18:28] <Machtin> rather not, i'd say.
[18:29] <robin0800> dutchie: see topic
[18:29] <virtuald> ok so ntpdate failed to update on boot because the networking script didn't work. so the time must have been read wrong from the rtc. where is it configured?
[18:29] <virtuald> also firefox froze on updating time
[18:29] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: Well, if you expect to boot again, you should be on a live CD, to start with
[18:29] <virtuald> 3.5
[18:29] <dutchie> i saw that, just wondering if it was out of date, because cjwatson said he'd have it fixed last night iirc
[18:30] <Machtin> RichardWolfVI: fair enough, i'll reboot
[18:30] <Michalxo> Seeker`, amd64 whole system always up to date :)
[18:30] <Machtin> brb.
[18:30] <cjwatson> dutchie: not just me
[18:31] <cjwatson> dutchie: the worst of the issues are fixed, but some people still have problems
[18:31] <xcdfgkjhgcv> cjwatson: My system won't even boot!
[18:32] <dutchie> OK, I won't upgrade this system but I'll see if my netbook boots
[18:32] <RichardWolfVI> xcdfgkjhgcv: Boot on a LiveCD, purge grub and reinstall it.
[18:32] <robin0800> dutchie: I downloaded a daily a nd X won't start
[18:32] <RichardWolfVI> While on a chroot on your system.
[18:32] <xcdfgkjhgcv> RichardWolfVI: I can't burn a Live CD without a PC to burn one with.
[18:32] <cjwatson> xcdfgkjhgcv: yes, you're one of the "some people" then, unfortunately I'm not an expert in fixing it - I was just sorting out the builds
[18:33] <cjwatson> so shouting at me isn't going to help you
[18:33] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I need to borrow a USB drive.
[18:33] <cjwatson> however, you upgraded mid-breakage, as I recall
[18:33] <RichardWolfVI> xcdfgkjhgcv: So do it.
[18:33] <cjwatson> so if you haven't managed to upgrade further since then, your system will certainly still be broken
[18:34] <oldude67> ok is it just me or a fresh install of alpha 5 not allowing to add gnome? if you install kubuntu?
[18:34] <robin0800> cjwatson: if you have an alternate cd you can use rescue
[18:34] <cjwatson> robin0800: it's not me having the problems :-) p.s. I wrote rescue mode in the alternate CD so I know it's there ;-)
[18:34] <virtuald> isn't time saved in the hardware clock on shutdown?
[18:35] <cjwatson> virtuald: the logic is much more horrible than you might hope
[18:35] <virtuald> :(
[18:35] <cjwatson> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareClock is the result of our last serious analysis of how it all (works | should work)
[18:35] <virtuald> thank you
[18:35] <robin0800> cjwatson: many thanks then saved me many times
[18:36] <[31d1]> cjwatson: new boot dealie is faaast. http://lrrr.us/boot.png yay :)
[18:36] <cjwatson> robin0800: good goodd
[18:36] <cjwatson> -d
[18:37] <cjwatson> [31d1]: nice
[18:38] <[31d1]> down from 8-9 seconds before the reorganization
[18:38] <BluesKaj> is there any advantage except just distance , to using the regular archive.ubuntu vs the us.archive.ubuntu repos ?
[18:38] <cjwatson> BluesKaj: right now, none, they resolve to the same IP addresses
[18:39] <BluesKaj> cjwatson,ok thanks
[18:40] <cjwatson> BluesKaj: in general it's worth using the per-country names because, when they are different from archive.ubuntu.com, they'll likely be somewhere that's closer on the network, and will help reduce overloading on archive.ubuntu.com
[18:41] <thebishop> would it be difficult to add a "Fix Grub" tool to the liveCD?  For instance, if someone installed Windows after Ubuntu and blew out their mbr
[18:42] <BluesKaj> cjwatson, right , I used to switch to mainserver from the ca.archives cuz the canadian repos servers were so darn slow.
[18:43] <BluesKaj> !grub | thebishop
[18:44] <BluesKaj> cjwatson, too many (k)ubuntu users here :)
[18:44] <thebishop> BluesKaj, i know how to fix it myself
[18:44] <thebishop> but for "normal" people
[18:44] <BluesKaj> normal ppl don't use linux :)
[18:45] <thebishop> isn't that contradictory to the whole idea of Ubuntu?
[18:45] <BluesKaj> jk ..nm
[18:45] <Ian_Corne> ubuntu+1 isn't for normal ppl
[18:45] <cjwatson> thebishop: there's a long-standing bug about it which we'd like to fix at some point
[18:45] <thebishop> :)
[18:45] <Ian_Corne> :p
[18:46] <cjwatson> it's not entirely trivial, really we'd want it to be part of something just ever so slightly more general rather than being a hack for grub alone
[18:46] <cjwatson> FWIW saying "contradictory to the whole idea of Ubuntu" tends to make developers go and do something else rather than arguing about it though ... ;-)
[18:46] <thebishop> hahaha
[18:47] <thebishop> nelson mandela is crying...
[18:47] <kingspook> apt-proxy vs. apt-cacher vs. approx -- any advice?
[18:51] <virtuald> is it safe to use ext4 with grub yet?
[18:51] <virtuald> grub2
[18:52] <RichardWolfVI> virtuald well, I had been usin ext4 in grub2 for a long while
[18:52] <Dr_Willis> i use ext4 with grub all the time.
[18:52] <Dr_Willis> and on the last release also
[18:52] <virtuald> :)
[18:52] <Dr_Willis> and with grub2 :)
[18:53] <Michalxo> virtuald, yes.. 3rd time here yes :)
[18:53] <Michalxo> and many others around will agree ;)
[18:53] <virtuald> ok good
[18:53] <RichardWolfVI> still no updates...
[18:54] <robin0800> whats still broken in karmic?
[18:56] <RichardWolfVI> Usplash and 3D and video stuff for me now
[18:56] <RichardWolfVI> a couple of hours ago, I couldn't boot
[18:57] <der_schreiner> hello
[18:57] <Michalxo> robin0800, everytime something else :)
[18:59] <der_schreiner> are you guys also still have some udev errors will booting?
[18:59] <der_schreiner> and aptd
[18:59] <xcdfgkjhgcv> der_schreiner: My PC won't even boot.
[18:59] <der_schreiner> what can you do atm?
[18:59] <arand> der_schreiner: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/430654 << still aplies for me
[19:03] <cjwatson> virtuald: it should work, but there've been scattered reports of problems on some ext4 filesystems - we haven't tracked down exactly why yet
[19:04] <cjwatson> der_schreiner: the udev warnings are harmless
[19:04] <der_schreiner> ok thx
[19:04] <virtuald> ok
[19:05] <cjwatson> if you're having boot problems, it's due to something else
[19:06] <virtuald> i haven't rebooted, i let the computer sleep the night before
[19:07] <der_schreiner> good idea ;)
[19:12] <sunshinepants> crashplan for cross-platform backups - opinions?
[19:13] <sunshinepants> sorry wrong channel
[19:13] <Machtin> okay.. that "brb" didn't work out to well.
[19:14] <Machtin> however, i managed to chroot into my normal system.. and can now do whatever is needed to get that system boot again.. anyone able to help me then?
[19:16] <Machtin> arand: it continues booting? seriously? how long would i have to wait for my system to boot?
[19:16] <Machtin> after the udev-messages i mean
[19:16] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: purge the following packages: grub2, grup-pc, grub-common and os-prober
[19:16] <e-jat> anyone know how to solve this bug 428365
[19:17] <RichardWolfVI> Machtin: After that intall grub2
[19:17] <RichardWolfVI> *install
[19:18] <Machtin> okay, did that
[19:18] <RichardWolfVI> OK, that would do, then
[19:19] <RichardWolfVI> don't forget to update everything else
[19:19] <Machtin> so, i can reboot?
[19:20] <cjwatson> uh, is there a reason to believe that reinstalling grub will make a difference here?
[19:20] <cjwatson> I realise it did for you, but I don't think it will for most people
[19:21] <cjwatson> if Machtin is having problems with the new upstartified boot process, reinstalling grub won't make any difference
[19:21] <Machtin> Hm.. i don't  see why this should be grub-related, but i'm willing to try.
[19:21] <Machtin> cjwatson: what will make a difference then?
[19:22] <cjwatson> I don't know, you haven't described your problem in all that much detail
[19:22] <RichardWolfVI> Well, I'm trying my best shot on a situation that it's been widespread
[19:22] <e-jat> so any solution for it yet/
[19:22] <cjwatson> booting with --debug as a boot parameter might help to gather information; however unfortunately I have to go
[19:22] <Machtin> well i also get these udev-stuff warning messages.. and then it stops booting
[19:23] <RichardWolfVI> And I'd been affected, also.
[19:23] <cjwatson> RichardWolfVI: understood, it's just that I'm the grub2 maintainer in Ubuntu and I have absolutely no idea of how reinstalling grub would make the slightest difference
[19:23] <RichardWolfVI> less do I
[19:23] <cjwatson> and frankly I don't *believe* that it would make a difference if the problem comes after the kernel boots
[19:23] <RichardWolfVI> but it's a common procedure to reinstall packages if they're not behaving properly
[19:23] <cjwatson> if it appears to make a difference, I think it's more likely that either something else was also changed, or the problem is inconsistent (i.e. doesn't happen every time)
[19:24] <cjwatson> RichardWolfVI: but grub's job is done once the kernel and initrd are in place
[19:24] <Machtin> well, grub does behave properly.. i think
[19:24] <cjwatson> if the problem is after that, grub *is* behaving properly
[19:24] <RichardWolfVI> well, if the Kernel loads, I guess, updating the packages from a chroot would do
[19:24] <Machtin> however.. is there any hint with that little description that's available?
[19:25] <der_schreiner> if grubs work start with init=/bin/bash get network driver and network up and update
[19:26] <Machtin> well, i did update via live cd now
[19:26] <der_schreiner> k
[19:26] <Machtin> didn't change anything, though..
[19:26] <der_schreiner> over chroot?
[19:26] <Machtin> yup
[19:27] <der_schreiner> so i would try it with the boot parameter
[19:28] <gnata> ok looks like karmic is broken today
[19:28] <Machtin> don't get it.. and don't see the point (no offense.. don't get me wrong)
[19:28] <gnata> x does start
[19:28] <gnata> but no keyboard
[19:28] <gnata> no mouse
[19:29] <gnata> no usb at all
[19:29] <der_schreiner> oh yeah
[19:29] <der_schreiner> i know this
[19:29] <gnata> no touchpad
[19:29] <gnata> and? do we know what is going on?
[19:29] <der_schreiner> i had this yesterday (gmt+2)
[19:30] <e-jat_> me too ..
[19:30] <gnata> me too
[19:30] <der_schreiner> grub2?
[19:30] <e-jat_> after upgrading the mountall package ... now .. stuck at booting
[19:30] <gnata> but do a dailly safe-upgrade
[19:30] <gnata> to report bug
[19:30] <gnata> is was broken yesterday
[19:31] <gnata> I repaired it
[19:31] <gnata> it is once again broken today
[19:31] <gnata> I think I just have to wait,chroot and upgrade non?
[19:34] <Machtin> well.. i'll try to reboot once more. if it won't work.. i'll try again tomorrow
[19:34] <Machtin> thanks for now! *waves*
[19:34] <e-jat_> :(
[19:38] <AlanBell> just upgrading the kid's computer now. . .  hope it works
[19:39] <MagicFab> AlanBell, if it works... don't update daily.
[19:39] <RichardWolfVI> Ok, I'm switching to Windows for the time being, this slowness is unbearable :(
[19:41] <Heikki123> lol, i switched to linux because windows was too slow :) And someone is doing the other way...
[19:41] <Heikki123> linux is much faster for me
[19:41] <Heikki123> ubuntu
[19:41] <mac_v> anyone notice , after the recent compiz update, that the window jumps up when closing
[19:41] <Machtin> nah, but i noticed nothing works atm :P
[19:42] <mac_v> lol
[19:42] <Severian> RichardWolfVI, talk about unbearable.  Why go to something as unpleasant as Windows.  If you need to get work done on a machine, Use Ubuntu Stable(Jaunty for now)  If you want to help test, these breaks can happen.  They don't happen often, but you have to assume they can.
[19:42] <blueyed> upstart broke the system? mountall appears to hang for me forever (updated yesterday)
[19:43] <blueyed> any pointers?
[19:43] <Machtin> at least i got my fallback operating system.. it's very uncomfortable.. but you can't expect more from a gameloader i guess.. i mean.. it's windows.
[19:43] <blueyed> faster than a hardy live cd at least, Machtin ;)
[19:44] <Machtin> :> agreed.
[19:44] <webbb82> isnt the alpha 6 due out soon
[19:44] <Machtin> booting windows is just like switching on a xbox for me :D
[19:44] <der_schreiner> lol
[19:45] <Machtin> (i have no xbox, though)
[19:48]  * genii-around makes more coffee
[19:50] <Heikki123> software development is fun. when everything is working, there is a need to break everything ;)
[19:50] <Severian> webbb82, The schedule says alpha6 is due tomorrow.  I would imagine they want to fix the current problems before rolloing out alpha 6.
[19:51] <Heikki123> i think i have alpha 1, and i have no problems
[19:51] <Jaymac> I just installed karmic alpha 5 on a dual boot system - grub is giving me an error 2 message - is this something anyone else has experienced?
[19:51] <Heikki123> oh sorry, the only problem is the sound not working properly
[19:52] <Heikki123> pulseaudio crashes sometimes
[19:52] <Heikki123> but anyhows, nites mates!
[20:04] <mike> join eeepc
[20:14] <[GuS_atWork]> Hi guys, is possible that latest kernel upgrade broke all my hardware support? like sound, network, etc.?
[20:14] <[GuS_atWork]> ops.. i see the topic...
[20:16] <Mike1> Neither karmic nor the buildds are in a working state right now.
[20:16] <Mike1> wtf? why that?
[20:16] <blueyed> Karmic has been (some kind of) smooth during the last months, but just now it's all so bad again. It's bad because those upstart changes could have been tested before being uploaded. And with "could" I mean "should" - on a bunch of virtual installations with different configs. I dunno if it fails for me because I have some "bind" mounts, or something else. And I'm not very motivated to test this using the reboot-oh-no-slow-livecd approach.
[20:17] <Mike1> Netbook Remix is buggy here :-(
[20:17] <[GuS_atWork]> Mike1: same here... today i cant make my system work correctly....
[20:17] <blueyed> Mike1: you can be glad if you can boot the system! ;)
[20:17] <[GuS_atWork]> but nowi saw the topic...
[20:17] <acicula> been having some issues earlier, much better now though
[20:17] <Mike1> but what does the topic mean??
[20:17] <Mike1> is ubuntu dead or what?
[20:17] <blueyed> nothing. just watch it.
[20:18] <Mike1> watch what?
[20:18] <Machtin> Well.. i can't boot at all. Will wait for someone to change that topic :f
[20:18] <Mike1> :D
[20:18] <[GuS_atWork]> but is cause of the kernel of something else?
[20:18] <genii-around> Machtin: I'm in same situation.
[20:18] <TLF> anyone here used migration assistant during install?
[20:18] <Mike1> [GuS_atWork]: try an other kernel and you will find out ;-)
[20:19]  * genii-around goes back to surfing freom livecd
[20:19] <arvind_khadri> hi, i want to use one of my drives as ext3 for storing data, how can i make it writable by user?
[20:19] <[GuS_atWork]> Mike1: too late, i've installed again the 5 alpha :P
[20:19] <[GuS_atWork]> since i've deleted the older kernels :S
[20:19] <[GuS_atWork]> bad move :P
[20:19] <blueyed> Machtin: do you have bind mounts? bug 430880
[20:19] <Machtin> [GuS_atWork]: i tried another kernel.
[20:20] <Machtin> blueyed: sorry.. i have no clue what bind mounts are.
[20:20] <acicula> !roadmap
[20:20] <blueyed> check your /etc/fstab (search for "bind"), but then probably not.
[20:20] <blueyed> !upstart
[20:21] <blueyed> !performance
[20:21] <blueyed> !sex
[20:21] <blueyed> !livecd
[20:21] <blueyed> !karmic
[20:21] <blueyed> !karma
[20:21] <blueyed> !anything
[20:22] <genii-around> !botabuse | blueyed
[20:22] <blueyed> !nothing
[20:22] <QPrime> blueyed: bored?  waiting for a the init/upstart situation to be sorted out?
[20:22] <acicula> blueyed: please stop that
[20:23] <Machtin> blueyed: no, didn't use anything like that
[20:23] <acicula> anyway with the last alpha? or beta comming up it is time for people to put stuff in, probably why you are experiencing more problems now then before
[20:25] <_markus__> lo
[20:25] <_markus__> anything new about the karmic breakage?
[20:25] <Machtin> nope.
[20:26]  * QPrime wraps a big init script around upstart :P
[20:26] <_markus__> darn :-(
[20:26] <_markus__> can't boot, can't develop. that sux
[20:26]  * _markus__ slaps himself
[20:27] <QPrime> _markus__: its not called an alpha for nothing.  Canonical just broke init/upstart to remind us all of that.
[20:27]  * acicula hands _markus__ a stable ubuntu 9.04 usb stick
[20:28] <_markus__> Is there an easy fix? I can use 9.04 and mount the partition read-write
[20:28] <_markus__> acicula: thanks, got one ;)
[20:28] <acicula> well all it did here was hang on windbind during boot, killed that , updated and it worked again
[20:28] <acicula> is there a bug/thread about the issue?
[20:29] <QPrime> _markus__: you can mod your interfaces file to get net connectivity and hammer apt-get update until it boots
[20:30] <_markus__> QPrime: I can't boot into the system that far. I can't get a shell with the system, I can only use another system to access the partition and I don't know where it hangs ...
[20:30] <Adapter> anybody seen catweazle
[20:30] <_markus__> recovery doens't cut it either. seems the / partition gets mounted read-only but no init scripts get executed at all
[20:31] <_markus__> ctrl-alt-del reboot, though
[20:31] <QPrime> _markus__: Hrmmm.
[20:31] <[GuS_atWork]> acicula: i think is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/430125
[20:31] <der_schreiner> this istnt aprob
[20:31] <der_schreiner> mount -o remount,rw /
[20:31] <der_schreiner> then you got write support
[20:32] <_markus__> der_schreiner: as I said, when I boot directly into the system I get no shell. I can use *another* system to gain r/w access; if I knew what to fix, I could do it
[20:32] <taneli> _markus__: do you have /dev/pts
[20:33] <David-T> anyone know what changed to make evolution start automatically (in the background) when you log in to gnome in karmic?
[20:33] <David-T> I'd like to turn it off since I just discovered it using 4GB of RAM + 6 GB of swap....
[20:33] <_markus__> taneli: I can't boot into the karmic installation to get a shell. I can use a 9.04 CD to get r/w access to that partition
[20:34] <_markus__> This describes exactly my problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/430125/comments/7
[20:34] <tormod> _markus__, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery
[20:35] <_markus__> (however I'm not sure about the mountall thing anymore ...
[20:35] <[GuS_atWork]> btw, is safe to upgrade now? i've installed again alpha 5 cause of this... is the bug fixed?
[20:35] <_markus__> tormod: that sounds like a plan, will try that, thanks!
[20:36] <Machtin> uhm
[20:38] <QPrime> doing a dist-upgrade on my broken test box now to see whats still broken
[20:38] <blueyed> _markus__: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.searchtext=mountall&field.has_patch=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_no_package=&field.status=NEW&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status=CONFIRMED&field.status=TRIAGED&field.status=INPROGRESS&field.status=FIXCOMMITTED&field.bug_reporter=&field.assignee= - they might all describe some part of your p
[20:40] <Machtin> 213440     ubottu> Launchpad bug 430125 in upstart "Karmic Latest - upstart kept back - missing mountall" [Critical,Fix released]
[20:41] <Machtin> did i get that right? there's a fix now for the not-able-to-boot-problem?
[20:41] <natewiebe13> Machtin: i did a dist-upgrade and my karmic is working great
[20:42] <Machtin> wonderful
[20:42] <Machtin> via livecd and chroot?
[20:42] <natewiebe13> also there is now a "ubuntu software store" which is new
[20:42] <natewiebe13> recovery mode
[20:42] <natewiebe13> went to root term with networking
[20:43] <natewiebe13> Machtin: ^
[20:43] <SiDi> Is anyone else lacking colors in bash, and aptitude / aptget autocompletion ?
[20:43] <idyle> Hi, I am running jaunty and earlier I did do-release-upgrade -d, and it was about to install, but I realized I didn't have time and aborted -- now when I try it, it says everything is up to date
[20:44] <natewiebe13> SiDi: like how the "ls" command gives colors?
[20:44] <natewiebe13> idyle: try update-manager -d
[20:44] <SiDi> natewiebe13: yeh... i got no colors anymore
[20:44] <NoelJB> SiDi, I lack the colors on my jaunty -> karmic upgrade, but I get them on my clean karmic install.
[20:44] <SiDi> i suspect i'm running the wrong shell
[20:44] <idyle> natewiebe13: yup did, says everything is up to date
[20:45] <SiDi> NoelJB: this is a clean install
[20:45] <natewiebe13> SiDi: working fine for me
[20:45] <natewiebe13> idyle: strange
[20:45] <natewiebe13> idyle: usually i do fresh installs, but if i were to upgrade, i would wait until at least beta
[20:46] <idyle> natewiebe13: alright, I suppose I can do that -- is there an ETA on the beta?
[20:46] <natewiebe13> idyle: how far did the upgrade get?
[20:46] <NoelJB> idyle, Karmic beta?
[20:46] <idyle> I never started it, I aborted before it started
[20:46] <idyle> NoelJB: yes
[20:46] <NoelJB> !ReleaseSchedule
[20:46] <NoelJB> One sec ...
[20:47] <natewiebe13> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
[20:47] <idyle> cool thanks guys
[20:47] <NoelJB> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
[20:47] <duffydack> Alpha 6 is tomorrow..    so this latest disaster is bad timing...
[20:47] <idyle> ok so we're getting close to beta!!!
[20:48] <natewiebe13> duffydack: i was talking to cjwatson, he said that they wont release alpha 6 until the problem is completely solved
[20:48] <duffydack> I`d assume its back to "working" order by then
[20:48] <natewiebe13> duffydack: so ive got no worries
[20:48] <natewiebe13> duffydack: im running karmic just fine
[20:48] <NoelJB> duffydack, I referred to it as ill-conceived based *solely* on the timing.  Colin pointed out that they could not wait for karmic+1 (if avoidable) because L will be an LTS release.  They really wanted to get all of the testing done in Karmic to prep for L.
[20:49] <aboSamoor1> on 10th of September was the second drop of artwork, is there any noticeable changes ?
[20:49] <NoelJB> And that's a very fair point.  They can back it out if they *have* to do so, but perhaps better to get everyone dealing with it now than in L.
[20:49] <natewiebe13> aboSamoor1: all ive noticed is that the old boot screen fades in and out
[20:50] <aboSamoor1> natewiebe13: I hope they change the xsplash, it is not cool
[20:50] <natewiebe13> you mean the throbber glitch?
[20:50] <natewiebe13> or the background?
[20:51] <RichardWolfVI> it seems the sytem is working properly again
[20:51] <natewiebe13> RichardWolfVI: it is here
[20:51] <aboSamoor1> natewiebe13: I mean the animation is weird and the background is boring
[20:51] <[31d1]> is there a new disaster since yesterday's?
[20:52] <natewiebe13> background can be changed.. ive done it myself already.. and as for the animation.. it is a bug which can be fixed by replacing the throbber png
[20:52] <kingspook> cjwatson: Still here? Setting grub's default by name didn't seem to work...
[20:52] <QPrime> after the last dist-upgrade things seem (mostly) functional.
[20:53] <natewiebe13> QPrime: agreed
[20:54] <QPrime> natewiebe13: yay! :)
[20:54] <aboSamoor1> natewiebe13: the throbber png bug was just fixed before an hour :)
[20:54] <natewiebe13> QPrime: no more running off of a livecd !
[20:55] <sparr> Why does tesseract-ocr depend on tesseract-ocr-deu instead of tesseract-ocr-eng?  I know, very american-centric of me, but that seems to be the norm for ubuntu and debian packages.
[20:55] <natewiebe13> aboSamoor1: ive still got that bug
[20:55] <AD5300> Hi, I need SERIOUS help with my Ubuntu box. I'm unable to start it up. And before you ask, no, I'm not an inexperienced user. I've been using computers for over 11 years.
[20:55] <NoelJB> QPrime, when you boot, what notices do you get from notify-osd?  I'm seeing one out of multiple that I should be seeing.  If I simply disconnect and reconnect my ethernet cable, I see messages that I ought to have seen initially, for example.
[20:55] <AD5300> Yes. At first, GRUB shows up displaying the boot options, upon booting Ubuntu, usplash starts up and I see the loading bar.Then it drops into a terminal, but there is no output as the quiet option is enabled by default.
[20:55] <AD5300> I am able to type on this terminal, but it appears to be loading somthing.
[20:56] <acicula> what does karmic use couchdb for?
[20:56] <AD5300> Recovery mode freezes on boot
[20:56] <[GuS_atWork]> maybe related to what the topic says AD5300
[20:56] <AD5300> I read the topic, I just wanted to see if anyone could help me...
[20:56] <_markus__> AD5300: sounds like my problem. I've been told to use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery which I'm currently doing; booting a live CD and fixing the broken karmic installation
[20:57] <natewiebe13> AD5300: can you get to the recovery screen where there is a bunch of selections?
[20:57] <Machtin> hm.. i booted the live cd.. but aptitude update doesn't give me anything new after chrooting to my root-partition?
[20:57]  * AD5300 really misses my Ubuntu computer and wishes he didn't have to type this on his windows netbook
[20:57] <AD5300> No, I cant get to recovery screen
[20:58] <QPrime> NoelJB: I'm going to do a warm boot now so I can some sort of baseline, one sec.
[20:58] <AD5300> I THINK it has something to do with a bad init.d script.
[20:58] <natewiebe13> ah.. i was able to get to the recovery screen and do a dist-upgrade :)
[20:58] <AD5300> But I'm not entirely sure.
[20:58] <_markus__> AD5300: the mountall package had some troubles, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.searchtext=mountall&field.has_patch=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_no_package=&field.status=NEW&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status=CONFIRMED&field.status=TRIAGED&field.status=INPROGRESS&field.status=FIXCOMMITTED
[20:58] <_markus__> &field.bug_reporter=&field.assignee=
[20:59] <AD5300> Hold on, I'm gonna go into GRUB on the machine, and turn "quiet" off so I can get some output for you guys...
[20:59]  * AD5300 will also turn off splash.
[20:59] <acicula> doesnt alt-f1 achieve the same result?
[21:00] <AD5300> Ok... booting up so far...
[21:00] <AD5300> Begin: Running /scripts/init-bottom
[21:00] <AD5300> Done.
[21:00] <_markus__> next time I update will be beginning of november .. :p
[21:00] <QPrime> NoelJB: well boot isnt pretty, still getting upstart errors, but it boots.
[21:01] <AD5300> sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk
[21:01] <AD5300> sd 6:0:0:1: [sdc] Attached SCSI removable disk
[21:01] <AD5300> sd 6:0:0:2: [sdd] Attached SCSI removable disk
[21:01] <NoelJB> QPrime, and when you get to the desktop, do you see any NotifyOSD messages?
[21:01] <AD5300> sd 6:0:0:3: [sde] Attached SCSI removable disk
[21:01] <AD5300> That's the last message on the screen.
[21:01] <robin0800_> QPrime: Same here but as you say it still boots
[21:01] <AD5300> Under that there is a flashing Underscore and I am able to type.
[21:01] <AD5300> Ctrl-D does nothing
[21:02] <QPrime> NoelJB: NotifyOSD *seems* to work properly here.
[21:02] <_markus__> AD5300: see my ChrootRecovery link; I just repaired my installation
[21:02] <AD5300> I can reboot the computer using Ctrl-Alt-Del or the SysRq commands
[21:02] <natewiebe13> ive got NotifyOSD working good
[21:03] <natewiebe13> no messages on boot
[21:03] <AD5300> your link got cut off... use like pastebay to paste the URL in and send it again
[21:04] <NoelJB> QPrime, so you get notices at startup for your network connections?  I seem to be seeing a race condition where I miss notices at startup that the same events later result in displaying.
[21:04] <_markus__> AD5300: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery
[21:04] <AD5300> oh... the https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.searchtext=mountall&field.has_patch=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_no_package=&field.status=NEW&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status=CONFIRMED&field.status=TRIAGED&field.status=INPROGRESS&field.status=FIXCOMMITTED link was the one that got cut off.
[21:05] <QPrime> NoelJB: checking a little further.  I had to reconfig to allow NM to manage my interfaces again... one sec.
[21:05] <_markus__> tormod: you saved my day, thanks!
[21:05] <AD5300> Can I use a 7.04 live CD to do the Chroot recovery?
[21:06] <_markus__> no idea
[21:06] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: no
[21:06] <AD5300> What did you use?
[21:07] <RichardWolfVI> Use a Karmic Cd, that will assure you won't mess up your system further
[21:07] <taneli> why wouldn't 7.04 work?
[21:07] <AD5300> I just need a working /etc/resolv.conf
[21:07] <AD5300> from Karmic.
[21:07] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha5
[21:08] <RichardWolfVI> tomorrow Alpha6 will be released
[21:08] <AD5300> Theoretically the only file that matters on the host system is resolv.conf
[21:08] <Guest14347> After updating+reboot now the cryptsetup disk does not come up anymore.. not asking for a password anymore.
[21:08] <AD5300> Great, so I'd waste a CD burning alpha 5 and then a day later get alpha 6? :(
[21:08] <RichardWolfVI> taneli: well, they have diferent packages, to start with
[21:08] <Guest14347> AD5300: use R+Ws
[21:09] <AD5300> Only packages that matter are the bash commands "chmod, chroot".
[21:09] <acicula> AD5300: most cd's will work tbh
[21:09] <taneli> but ChrootRecovery page instructs you to use apt-get inside chroot
[21:09] <RichardWolfVI> Note: The debootstrap utility is usually backwards compatible with older releases, but it may be incompatible with newer releases. For example, the debootstrap that is bundled with Jaunty can prepare a Hardy chroot like we are doing here, but the debootstrap that is bundled with Hardy cannot prepare a Jaunty chroot.
[21:10] <AD5300> Here's the thing -- The PC I'm trying to fix has a CD/DVD burner that works EXCELLENT. I'm on a crappy 9 inch ASUS Eee Netbook with no cd drive... any ideas?
[21:10] <AD5300> :/
[21:10] <RichardWolfVI> taneli: that's from the wiki
[21:10] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: USB thumbdrive
[21:10] <acicula> debootstrap is for doing new installs
[21:11] <kingspook> Does anyone know where I can find docs on Grub2 with a Grub Default that's a label?
[21:11] <AD5300> I have a 4Gb thumb drive, that might work, but can I boot from one?
[21:11] <kingspook> It's referenced on the Grub wiki, but I can't seem to find docs on it _anywhere_
[21:11] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: yes, you can
[21:11] <acicula> AD5300: depends on your bios, but unless you are on archaic hardware it'll work
[21:11] <AD5300> How do I copy the iso to the drive?
[21:11] <NoelJB> kingspook, cjwatson might be your best bet.
[21:12] <AD5300> I built the system myself. The MB is made in '09.Should be able to.
[21:12] <kingspook> NoelJB: Yeah, he's the one who turned me on to it. But it's not working and he appears to be busy/away/etc.
[21:12] <NoelJB> kingspook, pretty late where he is.
[21:12] <DanaG> heh, badly-worded bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/428914
[21:12] <kingspook> Ah. Europe?
[21:13] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
[21:13] <DanaG> !info usb-creator
[21:13] <QPrime> NoelJB: notifyosd seems to work fine.  Karmic does not display the desktop until its 'ready' so you may be missing an initial NM bubble that way.
[21:13] <James147> AD5300: the esiest way to get a bootable usb is to install it to the usb (not recomended) or create a liveusb (usb-creator is an easy way to do that)
[21:13] <AD5300> Is there ANY way to do this without a flash drive? It seems like a pain
[21:13] <RichardWolfVI> Well, no, there isn't
[21:13] <NoelJB> QPrime, yes, that seems to be different from Jaunty, where I see many notices at boot time.
[21:13] <AD5300> I have a working Vista partition on the broken machine.
[21:14] <AD5300> But i don't have a unix shell in vista obviously
[21:14] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: You may overwrite GRub
[21:14] <RichardWolfVI> *GRUB
[21:14] <RichardWolfVI> wait
[21:14] <NoelJB> AD5300, you don't need a unix shell to write a bootable CD :-)
[21:14] <RichardWolfVI> you can boot vista on that computer?
[21:15] <acicula> AD5300: Unetbootin can make usb boot sticks under windows
[21:15] <AD5300> I need a unix shell to mount the partition and copy the files.
[21:15] <AD5300> Yes. Vista works on it.
[21:15] <AD5300> Although I haven't used vista for over 8 months :PP
[21:15] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: Then, burn a LiveCD on vista and you're done
[21:15] <AD5300> Gonna have to break my record.
[21:15] <NoelJB> AD5300, but you don't need a unix shell to burn the ISO to a CD, and then you can boot the live CD.
[21:15] <AD5300> I'll try that... should've thought of that in the 1st place.
[21:16] <AD5300> Is there a limit to how many times I can erase/rewrite a CD-RW? Do they wear out easily?
[21:16] <AD5300> Only have like 5 blank ones around here
[21:16] <acicula> AD5300: yes, and not really
[21:16] <NoelJB> AD5300, personally, the way that I have it is a dedicated GRUB partition that boots to GRUB loaders in one of currently 5 partitions, plus a dedicated swap partition and a large shared data partition.
[21:17] <QPrime> "Ubuntu Store" freaks me out tho... I see a package removal in my future ;)
[21:17] <NoelJB> AD5300, so I can boot and repair using Fedora 11 or Ubuntu 8.04 - Ubuntu 9.10.  I'll get rid of Jaunty for the L alpha.  Hardy will probably survive until the M alpha.
[21:18] <QPrime> not knocking the need for it... but "you know..."
[21:18] <AD5300> I used to use Fedora... I don't like it much...
[21:18] <AD5300> I used fedora from Core 3 to Core 6 before I switched to Ubuntu.
[21:18] <AD5300> Haven't tried it since.
[21:18] <AD5300> Has it gotten much better?
[21:19] <NoelJB> AD5300, everything has gotten better since then.  But specifics would be off-topic.  :-)
[21:19] <guntbert> is the topic still true?
[21:20] <NoelJB> Point, simply, is that you can setup multiple bootable partitions, in case something happens.
[21:20] <QPrime> AD5300: as long as they use YUM I only have a morbid curiosity with RPM based distros
[21:20] <_markus__> AD5300: how are thins going, have you had any success so far?
[21:21] <Michalxo> any cure for today's latest updates? no keyboard,usb,mouse working, x?
[21:21] <RichardWolfVI> AD5300: Fedora is over focused on the bleeding edge
[21:22] <RichardWolfVI> gotta get going
[21:22] <Michalxo> no cures? :(
[21:22] <QPrime> Michalxo: many ppl have gotten things working with the latest dist-upgrade
[21:23] <Michalxo> well.. thanks to letting me know
[21:23] <Michalxo> but how do I connect to wireless network via CLI?
[21:23] <QPrime> Michalxo: Its not exactly perfect, but it is working.
[21:24] <Michalxo> I got it to work by wpa_suppliant but I tried it again only in CLI, and had some driver failed issues :-/
[21:24]  * QPrime grabbed his ethernet cable for the update, you'll have to find a bigger brain to do wpa wireless via cli (sorry)
[21:24] <Michalxo> ow..
[21:25] <BUGabundo> olá
[21:25] <Michalxo> QPrime, and command was only dist-upgrade or some apt other?
[21:26] <Michalxo> BUGabundo, hi! got any experience in wifi via cli?
[21:26] <QPrime> Michalxo: apt-get dist-upgrade (after and update of course)
[21:26] <Michalxo> yeah, thanks QPrime :)
[21:26] <QPrime> np
[21:26] <Michalxo> I've got here 2 laptops, I only need a guide :-/
[21:27] <BUGabundo> hey Michalxo QPrime
[21:27] <htrejh> hi
[21:27] <BUGabundo> Michalxo: some
[21:27] <BUGabundo> what do you nee?
[21:27] <_markus__> Michalxo: just to make sure: you don't have some kind of Ubuntu live cd/usb to boot on the broken system?
[21:27] <Michalxo> connect to wifi via CLI
[21:27] <htrejh> i updated my karmic today, and when rebooting i couldn't use my mouse or keyboard anymore, what can be the problem?
[21:28] <Michalxo> _markus__, yes I have... but how to make install there?
[21:28] <Michalxo> htrejh, same problem here, resolving it by <QPrime> Michalxo: apt-get dist-upgrade (after and update of course)
[21:28] <guntbert> htrejh: did you read the topic today?
[21:28] <_markus__> Michalxo: I don't know how broken your system is, but I used the live cd to start a system which has networking (wifi!) enabled and followed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery
[21:28] <htrejh> but how can i type it without keyboard?
[21:29] <Michalxo> htrejh, ctrl+alt+f1 ;) login via CLI
[21:29] <htrejh> no i cant
[21:29] <htrejh> i cant use my keyboard
[21:29] <Michalxo> _markus__, aha now I see :) good
[21:29] <Michalxo> htrejh, no at all?
[21:29] <htrejh> nope
[21:29] <htrejh> i doesnt reactr
[21:29] <Michalxo> then take the tour with me :)
[21:29] <Michalxo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery
[21:30] <Michalxo> hehe, did the same when I got messed up by grub and grub2 :D
[21:30] <Michalxo> thanks _markus__!
[21:30] <htrejh> ok thanks
[21:31] <robin0800_> Michalxo: http://blog.tplus1.com/index.php/2008/06/13/how-to-connect-to-a-wireless-network-from-the-ubuntu-command-line/
[21:32] <Michalxo> thanks robin0800_
[21:33] <QPrime> actually, I take it back.  "Ubuntu Store" is kinda nice.  now, *how* many interfaces to we have to the ubuntu repos?  Wonder how long before the paid offerings turn up...
[21:34] <StevenMyers> Question: Anyone know how to link the /var/www on Ubuntu to Windows XP so the PC IP still loads the root folder for the index of/ ?
[21:35]  * _markus__ doesn't understand that Q at all ...
[21:35] <StevenMyers> I'll re-interate
[21:36] <Guest34883> Hi, I'm wondering whether karmic could use device manager as default. It's a stable plasmoid.
[21:36] <yofel> StevenMyers: mount the ntfs partition somewhere and make /var/www a symlink to the web / folder?
[21:37] <StevenMyers> Say you have Ubuntu on one partition and XP on the other. I can load 192.168.x.x on my Ubuntu side and it shows my IP root directory in my browser because Ubuntu is active and online through that IP. But when I load XP, the IP is not active because Ubuntu is not booted up for me to see.
[21:37] <StevenMyers> yofel: Yes I need the Ubuntu IP to link to the XP IP so the root folder is still active even when XP is loaded.
[21:38] <StevenMyers> example: http://www.stevenmyers.net
[21:38] <yofel> StevenMyers: oh, so you want the ubuntu /var/www to be visible from XP?
[21:38] <StevenMyers> YES
[21:39] <StevenMyers> This way 192.168.x.x is still active and people can still access my server
[21:39] <_markus__> StevenMyers: that's sounds like trouble. Afaik, yes, there are device drivers to access ext3 and such but ... you need a webserver on XP running pointing to that dir and such. Is that really what you want?
[21:40] <yofel> hm... Windows doesn't support any linux file systems, but there are some ext2/3 drivers for windows out there so you could use them to load the ubuntu fs and then set the windows web server up so that it uses it as it's root...
[21:40] <StevenMyers> yofel: Yes that is what I am needing _markus_: that is what I am looking and needing done.
[21:40] <_markus__> It should work with xampp, if the drivers work ...
[21:41] <StevenMyers> _markus_: that is what I was aiming for as well is xampp
[21:41] <_markus__> StevenMyers: well, yeah, find some ext2/ext3 drivers for XP and try it
[21:41] <_markus__> (if that's what your Ubuntu partition is formatted with)
[21:41] <StevenMyers> It is.
[21:41] <StevenMyers> Thanks guys, great support I appreciate it a lot
[21:42] <_markus__> well ... :-) good luck
[21:42] <StevenMyers> Thanks markus. Btw, do you see this domain as being active on your side: http://www.stevenmyers.net ?
[21:42] <_markus__> StevenMyers: yes I did
[21:42] <StevenMyers> Thank you sir.
[21:43] <jtatum> StevenMyers: Don't forget to back up your data :)
[21:43] <_markus__> good idea
[21:43] <StevenMyers> even better tip, thank you jtatum
[21:43] <acicula> StevenMyers: there is an ext2 implementation for windows xp, which can also read ext3 http://www.fs-driver.org/
[21:43] <Michalxo> guys?! is there a way that ubuntu fixes when I am in XP or rebooting it>?! :D
[21:44] <Michalxo> it magically works.. and I did nothing then 2 reboots :-/
[21:44] <StevenMyers> hmm
[21:44] <StevenMyers> That does seem interesting
[21:44] <Michalxo> lol
[21:44] <StevenMyers> Thank you acicula.
[21:44] <Michalxo> had that big-bug as everyone around... and it's fine now
[21:44] <acicula> StevenMyers: running your webpage on your home windows xp machine like that however may not be the best idea
[21:45] <StevenMyers> Safe on linux but not recommended on XP?
[21:45] <acicula> StevenMyers: unless you known a thing or two about running a safe webserver it's not safe on either really
[21:46] <StevenMyers> I have the DNS being updated when my dynamic IP changes, this way I don't have to worry about getting onto linux to update the server information.
[21:46] <StevenMyers> Then I suppose specific port blocking won't help either..
[21:47] <acicula> well running a firewall is never bad, though not really needed on a default ubuntu install. but it wont make a poorly configured webserver secure no
[21:48] <StevenMyers> ok
[21:48] <StevenMyers> Was looking into Firestarter but that scratches it off for me
[21:49] <cjwatson> kingspook: hmm, can't look now but could you file a bug on Ubuntu grub2 with all the details? (/etc/default/grub, /boot/grub/grub.cfg)
[21:49] <BUGabundo> hey cjwatson
[21:50] <BUGabundo> funny to find you here
[21:50] <cjwatson> kingspook: you won't find docs on the GRUB wiki because it's a patch I've sent upstream but hasn't yet been merged there since they're preparing to release 1.97
[21:50] <BUGabundo> humm
[21:50] <BUGabundo> compiz is broken
[21:50] <BUGabundo> I'm loosing shortcuts :(
[21:50] <BUGabundo> anyone else?
[21:51] <StevenMyers> That with karmic?
[21:51] <BUGabundo> of course
[21:52] <BUGabundo> what # are we in StevenMyers? :)
[21:52] <BUGabundo> where's dtchen?
[21:52] <BUGabundo> I need his help debuging PA 100% CPU usage
[21:52] <StevenMyers> Ah. What;s your RAM usage right now?
[21:53] <dto> hi folks. is it possible to temporarily prevent my kernel from being upgraded during system upgrades?
[21:53] <dto> these are known good so i want to keep them for now
[21:53] <BUGabundo> Mem:       4060464    3205972     854492          0     391328    1121812
[21:53] <StevenMyers> what does top say?
[21:54] <QPrime> dto: read up on package pinning
[21:54] <acicula> dto: pinning is the keyword, dunno how it works, but that's what you want
[21:54] <StevenMyers> Or is that from top?
[21:54] <BUGabundo> dto: no. only canceling in
[21:54] <dto> acicula: QPrime: thanks
[21:54] <BUGabundo> and of course you don't need to boot into it
[21:55] <QPrime> BUGabundo: he can pin packages and not have apt upgrade them (all automatic)
[21:55] <eternal_p> so...is it safe to reboot yet?
[21:55] <BUGabundo> StevenMyers: http://paste.ubuntu.com/272351/
[21:55] <BUGabundo> QPrime: to much trouble
[21:55] <StevenMyers> BUGabundo: in your System Monitor under Processes, set all compiz listings on low priority along with python if it's running in the backend
[21:55] <BUGabundo> plus he should really test the newer packages and file bugs on it
[21:56] <QPrime> BUGabundo: bah, pinning is important to learn.
[21:56] <BUGabundo> StevenMyers: how will *that* fix my shortcut remembering bug ??
[21:56] <kingspook> cjwatson: yeah, I'll do that.
[21:57] <StevenMyers> I was referring to your CPU usage, with the shortcut remembering bug that's a whole nother ball park on compiz. Just another bug report for upstream.
[21:57] <StevenMyers> My apologies that this was what you were expecting from me.
[21:58] <BUGabundo> nvm StevenMyers
[21:58] <BUGabundo> its all good
[21:58] <StevenMyers> Sorry bro.
[21:58] <BUGabundo> just asking to see if anyone else is also expereincing it
[21:58] <BUGabundo> no need to be sorry
[21:58] <StevenMyers> :-)
[21:58] <BUGabundo> its not your bug, is it ? :D)
[21:58] <StevenMyers> hehe
[21:59]  * BUGabundo gives cwillu a gentle smack in the forehead
[21:59]  * BUGabundo drags kklimonda back in....
[21:59] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: let go of your new toy and help us out :D
[21:59] <StevenMyers> I had the same issue when running 9.10 on alpha 5 (hoping this is what you're running) and reported the batch but never heard a word from anyone yet
[22:00] <StevenMyers> P.S BUGabundo: You may want to set Xorg on low priority 16 ;-)
[22:00] <BUGabundo> you mean I had the same bug?
[22:00] <BUGabundo> where compiz stop using alt+tab?
[22:00] <StevenMyers> eh vice versa works
[22:00] <BUGabundo> and many other keyb?
[22:01] <BUGabundo> damn it
[22:01] <BUGabundo> this is making me crazy
[22:01] <BUGabundo> guess I'll restore my last backup config
[22:06] <kingspook> cjwatson: but it's for sure that the label-ing won't disappear or something, right?
[22:15] <CydeSwype> so without reading all the backlog here... is it "safe" (as safe as alphas get) to reboot since the last update-manager upgrade?
[22:16] <dto> CydeSwype: started working for me a few hours ago, upgraded from jaunty to karmic without burps. a few hours later, update gives me a working realtime kernel, which is fabulous
[22:16] <Cynthia> CydeSwype: the repos are changing as we speak, so that would be a no
[22:16] <QPrime> CydeSwype: depends on how much you love your current alpha installation... I'd say its a reasonable risk. (but I wont commit to that)
[22:16] <dto> oh.
[22:16] <dto> so... should i generally just wait a while to update?
[22:16] <dto> i really love the working rt
[22:16] <QPrime> ha! the classic channel advice conflict ;)
[22:17] <Cynthia> :D
[22:17] <Cynthia> Apport had an upstart file fix, bug 430895
[22:17] <Michalxo> QPrime, problem fixed by itself.. booted into linux from XP and no problem at all :)
[22:17] <QPrime> CydeSwype: All I can tell you in for two days Upstart was very broken... right now its less so.
[22:17] <Cynthia> linux-firmware has an update too, uh oh
[22:18] <Cynthia> CydeSwype: I edit what I said and now say reasonably safe, but yeah, alpha
[22:18] <QPrime> Michalxo: glad your stars aligned.
[22:19] <Michalxo> hehe, but keyboard problem still persists
[22:19] <Michalxo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/429249 anyone?
[22:19] <BUGabundo> not here
[22:20] <BUGabundo> but I'm still instaling lattest updates
[22:20] <CydeSwype> Cynthia, QPrime, dto, thanks!  like to get that high level status update even if there is some debate  ;^)
[22:21]  * QPrime pokes his head up from the gutter... "did someone say high level?"
[22:21] <Michalxo> BUGabundo, me too :)
[22:22] <Michalxo> BUGabundo, I always do "safe"-upgrade :D
[22:22] <Michalxo> and messing up my OS :D
[22:22]  * QPrime knows just enough to be dangerous with his nano editor. (and wont touch vi with a barge pole)
[22:22] <BUGabundo> QPrime: I have to use vi all day at work
[22:23] <BUGabundo> hpux, aix and fedora servers :(
[22:23] <QPrime> I'll send you something to kill the pain.
[22:23] <Michalxo> keyboard bugs? :)
[22:23] <dto> the new "you are connected to a wired network" systray icon is um..... kind of huge and black and doesn't fit in with the other icons.
[22:23] <dto> is this an aesthetic bug?
[22:24] <CydeSwype> going to take the plunge on the reboot
[22:24] <CydeSwype> brb
[22:24]  * CydeSwype crosses fingers and holds breath
[22:25] <dto> ok, gnome-open is not working. opening urls in other applications in general is not working.
[22:26] <QPrime> dto: aesthetics for the NM icon.  your other issues, not so much.
[22:28]  * QPrime has to run - dinner time with the sig. other. nice chatting guys/gals.  bbiab.
[22:30] <CydeSwype> woohoo!
[22:31] <BUGabundo> also the mouse scroll is now extra sensible , is it not?
[22:32] <BUGabundo> and I don't see a way to change its settings :(
[22:48]  * mac_v never heard of sensible mouse ;p
[22:53] <mac_v> BUGabundo: $ gpointing-device-settings
[22:53] <mac_v> you can set the scroll speed using that^
[22:54] <solarion> anyone have an idea why my netbook stops booting mdiway through (in rescue mode, it's right after "Begin: Running /scripts/init-bottom ...\nDone.\ninit: sreadahead main process (1211) terminated with status 1 and then a bunch of sd appearing)
[22:54] <solarion> ctrl+alt+del drops to a shell as it reboots
[22:54] <mac_v> !topic | solarion
[22:55]  * BUGabundo is deaf. no audio :(
[22:55] <solarion> what does "working" mean precisely? What broke?
[22:55] <Cynthia> The boot process
[22:55] <solarion> my desktop reboots just fine
[22:55] <mac_v> solarion: the boot is broken
[22:55] <Wicked> is there a list of new things in karmic?
[22:55] <solarion> is there a workaround?
[22:56] <solarion> Wicked: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha5
[22:56] <BUGabundo> ok, autospawn disabled
[22:56] <BUGabundo> mac_v: nothing there for mouse scroll
[22:56] <Wicked> awesome. thanks solarion :)
[22:56] <Cynthia> During the boot process for PCs yesterday, you had to use Ctrl+Alt+F1 and Ctrl+Alt+F7 one after the other to continue booting to GDM
[22:56] <mac_v> BUGabundo: oh mouse , i thought touchpad!
[22:56] <cjwatson> solarion,mac_v: it's not broken for everyone
[22:56] <Cynthia> I have no idea for Netbooks
[22:56] <BUGabundo> nope
[22:57] <cjwatson> some people (e.g. me) are booting just fine, but there are problems with some edge cases
[22:57] <solarion> Wicked: np. Glad I could be of help. :)
[22:57] <cjwatson> for example I think anything with encrypted partitions is still known to have trouble
[22:57] <solarion> that'd perhaps be it then
[22:57] <solarion> too bad I can't remove that drive
[22:57] <gnata> on my box it boots fine but no keyboard nor a mouse as soon as X starts
[22:57] <gnata> :(
[22:58] <solarion> I can get into it with the alpha 5 livecd (on a stick) and then chrooting and things, but it's not 100% and rather awkward
[22:58] <solarion> anything I can do to pitch in?
[22:58] <mac_v> cjwatson: i'm using the boot ppa , are there problems with that too? i'v not reboot for fear of breakage :(
[22:59] <cjwatson> mac_v: I believe the boot PPA has been folded into the main archive
[22:59] <cjwatson> it may have a slightly different set of problems
[22:59] <mac_v> hrm...
[22:59] <cjwatson> solarion: I don't see a bug report about that - it would help if you could file one
[23:00]  * mac_v sets low priority for boot ppa
[23:01] <Cynthia> current status without ubuntu-boot PPA: network-manager updates, may fix (or break) networking
[23:04] <gnata> hal seems to be broken
[23:04] <virtuald> does ifupdown work yet?
[23:05] <gnata> try dhclient
[23:05] <BUGabundo> virtuald: it stoped?
[23:05] <Cynthia> net isn't broken here yay
[23:07] <AlanBell> yay, the playroom computer is upgraded and working, the kids will be pleased.
[23:07] <AlanBell> it took an upgrade and a reboot and a dist-upgrade and it seems pretty good.
[23:07] <Cynthia> AlanBell: you let your kids use alpha software? you're brave :)
[23:07] <Dai> Cynthia: it's gonna break one way or another :D
[23:08] <Cynthia> Dai: true, and it may be even more user interface testing
[23:08] <AlanBell> they have been using it from alpha 1
[23:08] <AlanBell> I only let it on any of my machines at alpha 5
[23:09] <Dai> i think i'll wait for alpha 6
[23:09] <AlanBell> I bet nobody has given tuxpaint the full karmic testing that my kids have.
[23:09] <Dai> especially considering the recent issues :)
[23:09] <DanaG> Here's one thing you could do: keep it, oh, a few days behind, in terms of updates.
[23:10] <DanaG> Use another box to test the latest stuff.  Or a VM.
[23:10] <AlanBell> hmm, gnome-blackjack. should be educational for them I suppose.
[23:10] <mac_v> DanaG: vm , great , i totally forgot ;)
[23:11] <AlanBell> wow, the games just got a bit of a harsh prune
[23:13] <solarion> cjwatson: bug #431040
[23:19] <peol> Anyone else having problems with .ogg playbacks using aplay, while vlc (haven't tested others) work fine? I'm just getting static sound, I've had this issue before but it just started when updated to Karmic again
[23:19] <MaximLevitsky> I have a problem with cdrom, gnome doesn't recognize it is in, it just doesn't display cdrom icon
[23:19] <MaximLevitsky> It happened yestarday, and it might be my fault
[23:19] <MaximLevitsky> Do you know any pointers to start digging?
[23:19] <DanaG> well, aplay won't do ogg.  All aplay does is wav.
[23:19] <MaximLevitsky1> sorry NM decided to quit....
[23:19] <DanaG> YOu need something else to play ogg.
[23:20] <peol> Hm, I did have my xchat set to use 'aplay' before, but it might be defaulting to it still (it's set to automatic), I'll play around with it, thanks for confirming it as pebcak :)
[23:20] <DanaG> One simple utility maybe: "sox".
[23:21] <MaximLevitsky1> does cdroms work for you?
[23:21] <MaximLevitsky1> I mean do cdroms work for you
[23:21] <MaximLevitsky1> ?
[23:22] <peol> You mean audio CD's? Haven't tried, gimme a sec
[23:22] <DanaG> CDs?  hmm, it's been a long time since I last played a CD.
[23:22] <MaximLevitsky1> no no audio, any cdrom
[23:22] <MaximLevitsky1> or dvd
[23:22] <MaximLevitsky1> anything optical
[23:22] <peol> Yeah, hal is mounting the dvd in /media automatically over here
[23:23] <MaximLevitsky1> peol: did you receive yesterday updates?
[23:24] <Cynthia> MaximLevitsky1: inserted my Ubuntu Karmic a5 CD-RW into the drive, no icon on the desktop
[23:24] <MaximLevitsky1> and nothing in places too, right?
[23:24] <Cynthia> MaximLevitsky1: Exactly
[23:25] <peol> dmesg
[23:25] <Cynthia> Nothing in /media either
[23:25] <MaximLevitsky1> Cynthia: nice, so it is a update breakage
[23:25] <JanC> does dbus run
[23:25] <Cynthia> last dmesg message = "[   25.452528] eth0: no IPv6 routers present"
[23:25] <NoelJB> Cynthia, if necessary, can you mount the CD directly?
[23:25] <MaximLevitsky1> Cynthia: and manual mount work
[23:25] <MaximLevitsky1> ?
[23:25] <MaximLevitsky1> Here it works
[23:25] <AlanBell> is it possible to install the gnome-games package from the software store?
[23:26] <Cynthia> karmic@voltorb:~$ sudo mkdir /media/cdrommanual && sudo mount /dev/sr0 /media/cdrommanual
[23:26] <JanC> AlanBell: gnome games is split up in several packages in karmic
[23:26] <Cynthia> this worked, and placed an icon on the desktop
[23:26] <NoelJB> Cynthia :-)
[23:27] <JanC> AlanBell: which I'm happy about, now I can remove the games I never play  ;)
[23:27] <AlanBell> can't say I am overly pleased with the games changes
[23:28] <AlanBell> lots of fun and friendly logic games out, replaced with vegas strip blackjack
[23:28] <MaximLevitsky1> AlanBell: mee too
[23:28] <Cynthia> NoelJB: But this was not really for me, it was to test MaximLevitsky1's report of regression in automounting
[23:28] <AlanBell> not so child friendly out of the box
[23:28] <BWARG> HI!
[23:28] <JanC> AlanBell: I'm not sure what's installed by default (I'm on an upgraded box here)
[23:28] <NoelJB> OK.  I'll check on my end in a bit.  I am in the process of backing up, then I'll pop the DVD drive back in.
[23:29] <BWARG> id like to download karmic koalla?
[23:29] <BWARG> id like to bug test
[23:29] <BWARG> i like breaking my linux installs
[23:29] <JanC> AlanBell: I agree that soem child-friendly games should be installed by default
[23:29] <BWARG> kalzium
[23:29] <Cynthia> bwarg: get the ISO from http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha5
[23:29] <BWARG> and atomix
[23:29] <BWARG> thank you!
[23:30] <MaximLevitsky1> NoelJB, last question, if you open brasero, you don't see the cdrom, right?
[23:30] <AlanBell> BWARG: you might be well advised to wait a bit for alpha 6
[23:30]  * Twigathy peers at /topic... not worth apt-get upgrade'ing today then? :-)
[23:30] <JanC> AlanBell: actually, installing TuxPaint by default would be great (it's about the favourite "game" of all the kids I showed Ubuntu to)
[23:30] <NoelJB> BWARG, that's why we do alpha cycles.  Out of 6 months, beta is < 1 month
[23:30] <NoelJB> MaximLevitsky1, can't look until after my backup finishes.
[23:31] <Michalxo> guys.. is it a bug or feature? I inserted 9.04 cd and I don't see it in "computer" nor ls /media/cdrom(0) lists anything
[23:31] <BWARG> yo i installed suse as a backup os and it broke the boot loader
[23:31] <Cynthia> MaximLevitsky1: I'll look. Automatic mount or manual?
[23:31] <AlanBell> JanC: yes tuxpaint is great
[23:31] <MaximLevitsky1> Cynthia: here it doesn't show in brasero no matter what
[23:31] <BWARG> lol wrong chat
[23:31] <Cynthia> Michalxo: The CD-ROM invisibility bug is being discussed right now :)
[23:31] <AlanBell> I just don't think of all the card games that are available blackjack is the best to include
[23:31] <Cynthia> MaximLevitsky1: Ok. Will test now
[23:32] <BWARG> make a card game about chemistry and math
[23:32] <BWARG> and offer an incentive
[23:32] <Michalxo> CydeSwype, thank you.. :) here I guess :)
[23:32] <MaximLevitsky1> This is what bothers me, I can live without automounting, but I need brasero now
[23:33] <JanC> AlanBell: right, considering the "gambling" nature of it...
[23:33] <Cynthia> brasero: Blank Disc shows "No available disc" for my CD-RW
[23:33] <Michalxo> MaximLevitsky1, same problem here then :) empty cdrom drive is shown, but when filled with a cd, I see nohing
[23:33] <BWARG> how familiar are you all with the yaST tool in suse?
[23:33] <MaximLevitsky1> Michalxo, in computer:// right?
[23:33] <Cynthia> Same with the CD-ROM drive manually mounted
[23:34] <Michalxo> yes
[23:34] <Michalxo> ls /media/cdrom shows nothing too
[23:34] <Cynthia> Is there a bug report for this yet?
[23:34] <MaximLevitsky1> Michalxo: great, so this is a bug, and I''l report it
[23:34] <Cynthia> Never mind me then
[23:34] <AlanBell> JanC: yes. I have no problem with gambling as such. Just don't think it is very wise to have it as one of the very few games installed.
[23:34] <Cynthia> Thanks Maxim
[23:34] <Michalxo> imo no
[23:35] <AlanBell> if there was a big collection of card games including solitaire, bridge, etc then it would totally make sense for it to be part of the collection
[23:35] <Cynthia> AlanBell: AisleRiot Solitaire seems to be a collection of solitaire games on its own
[23:35] <Michalxo> aisleriot rocks!
[23:35] <Michalxo> blackjack is not needed
[23:36] <BWARG> can there be some tool implemented sin the new version such as the /etc/sys config editor GUI in ubuntu?
[23:36] <CydeSwype> hey guys, is it time for a topic change yet?
[23:36] <Cynthia> AlanBell @ AisleRiot: Game / Select Game [Ctrl+O] shows a plethora of games
[23:36] <MaximLevitsky1> except cdrom bug, system works here
[23:37] <BWARG> it allows you to do such things as change your window manager in a gui
[23:37] <AlanBell> but is aisleriot still there? it is part of gnome-games (which I just reinstalled)
[23:37] <BWARG> change bnoot options
[23:37] <BWARG> boot
[23:37] <Cynthia> AlanBell: # apt-get install aisleriot
[23:37] <JanC> I'll try a new install one of these days...
[23:37] <Cynthia> The GNOME Games package was split into its constituent games this week
[23:38] <AlanBell> is there a wiki page about the games changes, I would like to read some of the thinking behind it
[23:38] <JanC> Cynthia: I think what AlanBell means is that some games are more appropriate to be installed by default than others
[23:38] <Cynthia> JanC: Oh
[23:38] <BWARG> i just thought that something like that would be great for user friendlyness seeing as you can do so many powerful things in a gui
[23:38] <AlanBell> exactly
[23:38] <MaximLevitsky1> done
[23:38] <MaximLevitsky1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/431055
[23:39] <Cynthia> Well, the games from gnome games are all still around... I guess we'll have to wait for Alpha 6 to know which subpackages are installed now
[23:39] <BWARG> i dont mean to be a douche but why are you all so focused on games?
[23:39] <cjwatson> AlanBell: I shoved sgt-puzzles on my stepson's box, although possibly for slightly older children as they aren't all that easy
[23:39] <Cynthia> Bug 376744
[23:39] <AlanBell> well I hope today was just a prune and they will be added back bit by bit.
[23:39] <Michalxo> keyboard bug here + cdrom bug
[23:40] <AlanBell> BWARG: because I just upgraded the playroom computer and half the games vanished
[23:40] <Michalxo_> warning NMapplet possible bug again
[23:40] <cjwatson> AlanBell: best file a bug or post to ubuntu-devel-discuss or something to make your feelings known
[23:40] <JanC> BWARG: because we were having a discussion about default games  ;)
[23:40] <BWARG> what about atomix then?
[23:40] <Michalxo_> Setting up network-manager (0.8~a~git.20090911t130220.4c77fa0-0ubuntu6) ... not sure if this does not brake system too
[23:41] <BWARG> move it from education
[23:41] <Cynthia> Michalxo_: It doesn't break everyone's system
[23:41] <Michalxo_> guys? who plats robots?
[23:41] <JanC> I'll try to remember to test alpha 6 image in a VM to check what's installed by default
[23:41] <Cynthia> Mine, for instance, is still solid net-wise
[23:41] <NoelJB> Cynthia, I can confirm.  Is there an open bug, yet?
[23:42] <Cynthia> NoelJB: For the CD-ROM trouble or NetworkManager?
[23:42] <NoelJB> Cynthia, CD-ROM
[23:42] <Michalxo_> robots tali,klotski? useless(?)
[23:42] <BWARG> klotski is great for kids
[23:42] <NoelJB> Ah, I see it ... bug 431055
[23:42] <Cynthia> NoelJB, MaximLevitsky1 filed Bug 431055
[23:42] <Cynthia> Yes :)
[23:42] <BWARG> i played it relentlessy
[23:42] <Michalxo_> hm.. tried once.. never again :)
[23:43] <Michalxo_> so tali / robots? :)
[23:43] <AlanBell> Cynthia: thanks for the bug link
[23:43] <BWARG> robots?
[23:43] <Michalxo_> Cynthia, thkx too :)
[23:43] <BWARG> link?
[23:43] <Michalxo_> Robots 2.27.92
[23:43] <BWARG> im on suse cause i broke my ubuntu
[23:43] <Michalxo_> Based on classic BSD Robots.
[23:43] <Michalxo_> Robots is a part of GNOME Games.
[23:43] <AD5300> ... I just realized I only have 650MB CR-RWs... is there any way I can fit Karmic Alpha 5 Live CD on that?
[23:44] <AD5300> I need to boot into it just to fix my chroot :/
[23:44] <cjwatson> I'm afraid we stopped supporting 650MB CDs several years ago
[23:44] <Cynthia> AD5300: No
[23:44] <cjwatson> we tried for a while but we couldn't make stuff fit any more
[23:44] <AD5300> Can I remove unneeded packages maybe?
[23:44] <MaximLevitsky1> cjwatson: just strip mono, and it will fit :-)
[23:45]  * BUGabundo slaps MaximLevitsky1
[23:45] <BUGabundo> hey I like my GnomeDO
[23:45] <Cynthia> MaximLevitsky1: and Tomboy, which (is the only program to?) use(s) Mono
[23:45] <cjwatson> MaximLevitsky1: *sigh* whatever
[23:45] <BWARG> im a fan of memory games and puzzle games
[23:45] <AD5300> Is there an easy way to remove mono from the ISO file?
[23:45] <MaximLevitsky1> Cynthia: gnote works fine here
[23:45] <Cynthia> ah, never mind me, I thought Tomboy was the only program to use Mono.
[23:45] <BWARG> open in a archive manager
[23:45] <AD5300> Can it still BOOT and go into the GUI without mono?
[23:45] <Michalxo_> wow! I've just beaten robot for the first time! finally I understand that game :D
[23:45] <BWARG> chroot
[23:46] <MaximLevitsky1> AD5300: sure, but this was just a joke
[23:46] <AD5300> Im not going to use it to install anything. I JUST need to fix my current Karmic installation.
[23:46] <MaximLevitsky1> AD5300: there are many packages that can be removed
[23:46] <NoelJB> MaximLevitsky1, confirming the basero behavior, too.
[23:46] <AD5300> How do I go about doing that?
[23:47] <AD5300> I'd like to remove OpenOffice (~200MB from the ISO image.
[23:47] <Cynthia> AD5300: http://nixbit.com/cat/system/operating-systems-linux-distri/alinux/
[23:47] <Cynthia> from the page: aLinux OS can be written to a 650MB CD
[23:47] <AD5300> I need to have a copy of Karmic as my host system for repairing my current system. It actually matters in this case.
[23:48] <BWARG> find the directory its installed to and rm -rf it?
[23:48] <AD5300> /etc/resolv.cfg needs to match the one from Karmic
[23:48] <AD5300> I'd just like to know the easiest way to remove OpenOffice from the LiveCD.
[23:48] <AD5300> ... so it can fit within 650MB.
[23:49] <BWARG> find tyhe directory its installed to
[23:49] <BWARG> and rm -rf it
[23:49] <BWARG> then when you boot do the uninstall thing
[23:49] <AD5300> no... I didnt burn the CD yet. That wont work
[23:49] <AD5300> Im trying to remove files from the ISO image
[23:50] <BWARG> open the iso in an archive manager
[23:50] <BWARG> copy that to a directory
[23:50] <BWARG> chroot into it
[23:50] <AD5300> I dont know what I can safely remove
[23:50] <Cynthia> remove wubi, remove the autorun.inf for Windows, remove /usr/bin/games and /usr/lib/openoffice with squashfs-tools or something that can handle squashfs
[23:50] <BWARG> do your thing
[23:50] <cjwatson> AD5300: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
[23:50] <Cynthia> the whole "live cd" environment is in a single file
[23:50] <BWARG> oh
[23:50] <BWARG> what she said
[23:50] <AD5300> Im using Vista to modify the image since my Ubuntu PC is broken.
[23:50] <cjwatson> is the, er, canonical documentation for this
[23:51] <cjwatson> and has all the little details like the correct mkisofs options
[23:51] <cjwatson> you won't be able to do it on Vista
[23:51] <Cynthia> nice pun, cjwatson :)
[23:51] <cjwatson> sorry
[23:51] <cjwatson> Vista won't be able to do anything with the squashfs
[23:52] <AD5300> I have 7zip installed.
[23:52] <AD5300> I should be able to remove files from the iso
[23:52] <cjwatson> I doubt 7zip will understand squashfs
[23:52] <cjwatson> AD5300: can your machine talk to the network without complicated shenanigans? (no WPA, no proprietary drivers)
[23:53] <cjwatson> AD5300: if so, why not use the minimal netboot CD, which has a rescue mode feature?
[23:53] <cjwatson> AD5300: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/
[23:53] <BWARG> what about just burrowing or buying a larger CD?
[23:53] <DanaG> dude, there's a usb-creator for Windows.
[23:53] <AD5300> My machine cant even connect to the net from Ubuntu atm...
[23:53] <cjwatson> you won't get a GUI, but if all you need is chroot then it may suffice
[23:54] <cjwatson> ah, that might be a problem
[23:54] <AD5300> and I need the file called /etc/resolv.cfg
[23:54] <AD5300> which is on Karmic
[23:54] <cjwatson> personally I'd drop a couple of pounds on a stack of 100 CD-Rs or something :)
[23:54] <BWARG> i paid 4 dollars on 10 DVDRs
[23:54] <Cynthia> AD5300: ls -l /etc/resolv.cfg gives no output here
[23:54] <cjwatson> resolv.conf
[23:55] <AD5300> my bad. extension should be conf
[23:55] <AD5300> sorry
[23:55] <BWARG> lol google qemu and run a live cd in it
[23:55] <Cynthia> oh. well, mine got generated by NetworkManager
[23:55] <AD5300> I need to recover using Chroot.
[23:55] <NoelJB> Cynthia, yes, that IS how it gets generated.
[23:56] <NoelJB> and it will be specific to the ISP
[23:56] <NoelJB> since it will have the nameserver entries
[23:56] <AD5300> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrootRecovery -- this is what I need to do.
[23:56] <Cynthia> true, I just never saw how this worked on direct PPPoE because I have a router
[23:56] <AD5300> Someone with the same problem as me said that guid fixed it.
[23:57] <Cynthia> AD5300: but you need to make Karmic a5 fit on a 650 MB CD, which requires something other than Vista, i.e. using your broken system to fix itself. Is that right?
[23:57] <AD5300> I don't even e PPPoE... I'm on 25mbps/15mbps Fiber-Optic connection with no logins.
[23:58] <AD5300> Yeah, which won't work since I cant even login in recovery mode
[23:58] <BUGabundo> chrisccoulson: are you around
[23:58] <BWARG> qemu frintend
[23:58] <chrisccoulson> BUGabundo - i am
[23:58] <BUGabundo> chrisccoulson: were you the one to introduce the new changes on compiz?
[23:58] <Michalxo_> AD5300, well.. for me it fixed reboot twice.. dunno what happened... but I could go into tty1 and execute there all :-/
[23:58] <chrisccoulson> i wasn't. which changes are these?
[23:59] <Cynthia> AD5300: shall I try to customise an .iso for you per /LiveCDCustomization, and upload it to you via this ADSL connection? (will be slow)
[23:59] <AD5300> Sure...
[23:59] <BUGabundo> chrisccoulson: its not the changes, but a side efect or new bug
[23:59] <BWARG> load up http://perso.wanadoo.es/comike/
[23:59] <AD5300> I'd appreciate that.
[23:59] <BWARG> qemu front end
[23:59] <Cynthia> it might take a while, I haven't done this before :/
[23:59] <chrisccoulson> BUGabundo - what's the issue?
[23:59] <BUGabundo> chrisccoulson: its losses info on shortcuts
[23:59] <BWARG> do you have a live cd available/