[02:28] <MontelEdwards> #startmeeting
[02:28] <MootBot> Meeting started at 20:28. The chair is MontelEdwards.
[02:28] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[02:28] <MontelEdwards> oh shit
[02:28] <MontelEdwards> #endmeeting
[02:28] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:28.
[02:29] <st33med> Meant to test something?
[02:31] <MontelEdwards> st33med, a 1024x600 screen makes one type stuff in the wrong place
[02:31] <st33med> ah
[02:31] <st33med> that sucks
[02:31] <MontelEdwards> yes. EEE PC :(((
[11:41] <kenansa29> helloo
[11:42] <kenansa29> any girl for chat
[11:42] <kenansa29> ?????????'
[11:43] <james_w> that's generally not a good way to find them
[11:43] <james_w> and this is *certainly* not the venue
[11:51] <dholbach> james_w: haha :)
[11:51]  * dholbach hugs james_w
[11:51]  * dholbach hugs james_w
[11:51]  * dholbach hugs james_w
[11:52] <guest_sa> helloooo
[11:52] <guest_sa> any girl for chat?
[11:52] <mok0> Oooh guys did I come in at the wrong time?
[15:56] <robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0916#Agenda
[15:57] <czajkowski> robbiew: aloha
[15:57] <robbiew> hi
[15:57] <james_w> hi
[15:59] <doko> hi
[15:59] <evand1> hiya
[15:59] <al-maisan> reverse("hello")
[15:59] <robbiew> hi
[15:59] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[15:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is robbiew.
[15:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:00] <robbiew> slangasek: did you pass out?
[16:01] <robbiew> guess so
[16:01] <james_w> about 3 hours ago
[16:01] <james_w> I doubt he is going to be here
[16:01] <robbiew> completely acceptable
[16:01] <robbiew> ;)
[16:01] <robbiew> cjwatson: awake?
[16:01] <robbiew> again...understandable if not
[16:01] <mvo_> hello
[16:01] <cjwatson> aye
[16:01] <robbiew> okay...let's get this over with ;)
[16:02] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Alpha 6 Deliverables
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 6 Deliverables
[16:02] <robbiew> mvo_: software-store is in...noticed that
[16:02] <robbiew> ;)
[16:02] <mvo_> yeah (or somehting like that)!
[16:02] <robbiew> heh
[16:02] <robbiew> and the plan is to make a call for testing
[16:03] <robbiew> and then assuming things go well...drop Add/Remove in Beta for it
[16:03] <robbiew> anyone have concerns?
[16:04] <robbiew> guess not
[16:04] <robbiew> liw: is CJ ready to go?
[16:04] <liw> robbiew, I need to get a few threading bugs fixed; I'm waiting for the PPA to build the packages so I can ask bug reporters to verify
[16:05] <robbiew> okay...that's fine
[16:05] <robbiew> thnx
[16:05] <robbiew> evand1: can you remind me on the firefox thing in slideshow?
[16:05] <robbiew> did that get worked out?
[16:06] <evand1> I'm uploading a version with the icon unmodified, then speaking with Mozilla about the possibility of having a modified version with a reflection.
[16:06] <robbiew> okay....the things we have to worry about...heh
[16:06] <robbiew> did design ever comment on the slides?
[16:07]  * robbiew thinks they look fine as is....but he's only a stupid engineering manager :/
[16:07] <robbiew> evand1:^^
[16:07] <evand1> nope
[16:07] <evand1> not yet
[16:08] <robbiew> ok...well, we've given them the chance
[16:08] <evand1> I'll try to touch base with Matt T to see where things stand
[16:08] <robbiew> okay, thnc
[16:08] <robbiew> thnx
[16:08] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Alpha 6 bugs
[16:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 6 bugs
[16:08] <robbiew> probably too late for these now
[16:08] <robbiew> but
[16:08] <robbiew> bug 427709
[16:09] <robbiew> that's just an MIR
[16:09] <Keybuk> it's already in main
[16:09] <cjwatson> it's not a6-critical since we promoted it to main in advance of the review
[16:09]  * cjwatson has no opinion on whether a review is in fact needed
[16:09] <robbiew> cool...okay
[16:10] <robbiew> bug 430611
[16:11] <cjwatson> we've applied two fixes which may help with that
[16:11] <robbiew> looks like that is still being investigated
[16:11] <robbiew> ack
[16:11] <cjwatson> one of them is moving libexpat to /lib from /usr/lib, since dbus-daemon links against it
[16:12] <cjwatson> the other, which Keybuk uploaded earlier, is having dbus start on local-filesystems rather than virtual-filesystems, so that /var/lib is available
[16:12] <cjwatson> I don't think we've yet had confirmation that that clears everything up, unless I missed it
[16:13] <robbiew> right...nothing in the bug at least
[16:13] <robbiew> thanks
[16:13] <robbiew> and then there's bug 430496
[16:14] <robbiew> again...looks like still in the early stages
[16:14] <cjwatson> that I'm not sure about, though I know Keybuk said he was aware of it ...
[16:15] <robbiew> ack
[16:15] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Good news
[16:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
[16:15] <robbiew> 2/3 of my machines booted fine with A6 stuff from this morning :P
[16:15] <cjwatson> I know I had some earlier this week, but I seem to have forgotten ...
[16:16] <james_w> kerneloops is in and on by default and seems to be doing it's job nicely
[16:16] <robbiew> whoohoo
[16:16] <cjwatson> oh, there seems a fairly decent chance that we can get rid of the horrible /boot on NTFS bind-mount in Wubi
[16:16] <evand1> I have PolicyKit support in usb-creator sorted.  It doesn't change the UI in any way, so it shouldn't need a UI exception.  And it fixes a few odd bugs that come with running as root.
[16:16] <robbiew> awlright!
[16:16] <james_w> (or at least has filed some bugs and sent reports to kerneloops.org without getting any bugs filed against kerneloops or apport)
[16:18] <james_w> plus, thanks to al-maisan there are less than half a dozen open bzr-builddeb bugs
[16:18] <mterry> :-/  hi
[16:18] <al-maisan> :)
[16:20] <robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[16:20] <robbiew> LinuxCon/Plumbers next week
[16:21] <robbiew> anything else?
[16:21] <mterry> ooh
[16:21] <ScottK> Thanks to cjwatson for kicking off the archive rebuild test.
[16:21] <ScottK> The good news is the failure rate is still less than 15%.
[16:22] <mterry> Keybuk, I found some issues with the rsyslog upstart conversion, probably worth pushing before alpha 6?
[16:22] <mterry> Keybuk, bug 430220
[16:22] <mterry> Keybuk, otherwise logs don't rotate
[16:23] <Keybuk> mterry: the invoke-rc.d reload thing should work - it'll send HUP
[16:23] <Keybuk> just bitch about it a bit
[16:23] <mterry> Keybuk, HUP doesn't work for rsyslog
[16:23] <Keybuk> bs=1 must be an accident
[16:23] <Keybuk> the fifo creation stuff has to be in rsyslog
[16:23] <Keybuk> because rsyslog won't start until it exists ;)
[16:24] <mterry> Keybuk, that's why I changed kmsg to 'starting rsyslog'
[16:24] <Keybuk> changing to starting/stopped would work too though - you're right
[16:24] <Keybuk> if you prefer it that way - that's fine by me ;)
[16:24]  * mterry doesn't care, just seemed right to me
[16:25] <robbiew> okie dokie....anything else
[16:25] <mterry> Keybuk, wait, I don't see the HUP logic for a reload
[16:25] <cjwatson> I milestoned bug 430607
[16:25] <mterry> Keybuk, we can talk about that later though
[16:25] <cjwatson> which is actually triaged/high and has "(needs conversion to Upstart)" appended to the title; silly bot
[16:26] <robbiew> heh
[16:26] <cjwatson> Scott helped me out getting the job definition right, so I'm just about to test that
[16:27] <cjwatson> ScottK: good news, but a lot of packages numerically :-/
[16:28] <ScottK> cjwatson: There was a slight bit of sarcasm buried in the "only 15%".  It's great news to have the rebuild.  The results concern me.
[16:28] <cjwatson> ah, I did wonder if we were calibrated differently ;-)
[16:29] <cjwatson> some kind of app where we could annotate failures with reasons would be nice
[16:31] <Keybuk> probably glibc API breakages ;)
[16:31] <al-maisan> cjwatson: hmm .. what did you have in mind?
[16:31] <al-maisan> Could launchpad be extended to provide that?
[16:32] <cjwatson> well, like http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html except that you can note a description of each failure to avoid duplicating work, a bit like the comments field in merge-o-matic
[16:32] <cjwatson> I'm sure launchpad *could* be extended but it doesn't even provide a nice view of all failures at the moment, let alone providing a comment field, so a mashup is probably a more sensible short/medium-term approach
[16:33] <al-maisan> right.
[16:34] <ScottK> Keybuk: It's a lot of gcc 4.4 related failures.
[16:34] <ScottK> that's the largest source anyway.
[16:35] <ScottK> The ubuntuwire view does provide a nice tooltip for depwait to tell you what package it's waiting for on hover.
[16:37] <robbiew> okay...silence is golden
[16:37] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:37] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:37.
[16:37] <robbiew> ;)
[16:37] <robbiew> thanks all
[16:38] <al-maisan> thanks!
[16:38] <evand1> thanks
[18:00] <marjo> #startmeeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is marjo.
[18:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:00] <ara> hey all!
[18:00] <davmor2> hello
[18:00] <marjo> hi folks, thanks for joining us
[18:00] <marjo> [TOPIC] Agenda
[18:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
[18:00] <bdmurray> hi!
[18:00]  * fader_ waves
[18:00] <marjo> # Karmic Alpha6 Test Status -- ara (Ara Pulido)
[18:00] <marjo> # SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:01] <marjo> Does anybody want to add any agenda items?
[18:01] <marjo> ok, Ara
[18:01] <marjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Alpha 6 Test Status
[18:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Alpha 6 Test Status
[18:02] <ara> OK, Alpha 6 testing is a bit slowly now
[18:02] <ara> There was a major issue with dbus not being run, and the session never started
[18:02] <ara> they are also going to upload debian-installer, so -server is also going to be respin
[18:02] <ScottK> There's no chance that the current images will be the final Alpha 6 one for any image.
[18:03] <marjo> lp #430611
[18:04] <ara> So, people on Americas time zones... be prepared ;-)
[18:04] <fader_> ara: Yeah, expecting a long night here :)
[18:04] <sbeattie> heh, okay. :-)
[18:04] <davmor2> expecting a long night here
[18:05] <cjwatson> mixed reports with the fixes we've applied so far for 430611
[18:05] <cjwatson> pitti conjectures a race, quite possibly accurately ...
[18:06] <marjo> lp #430611
[18:07] <cjwatson> ... the one you were just talking about, yes :)
[18:07] <marjo> ara anything else?
[18:08] <ara> no, nothing else, just waiting for the new images
[18:08] <marjo> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:08] <marjo> ok thx
[18:08] <marjo> Steve...
[18:08] <sbeattie> SRU Activity since 2009-09-09:
[18:08] <sbeattie> * Jaunty: 5 new packages in -proposed (firefox-3.5, kadu, kdepim, tzdata, xulrunner-1.9.1) an
[18:08] <sbeattie> d 5 pushed to -updates (automake1.10, automake1.9, glibc, sun-java5, tzdata)
[18:09] <sbeattie> * Intrepid: 1 new package in -proposed (tzdata) and 3 pushed to -updates (linux, sun-java5, tzdata)
[18:09] <sbeattie> * Hardy: 2 new packages in -proposed (kdepim, tzdata) and 2 pushed to -updates (linux, tzdata)
[18:09] <sbeattie> * Dapper: 1 package to -proposed and pushed to updates (langpacks)
[18:09] <sbeattie> Thanks to Caleb Case, Stéphane Graber, dje, Micah Gersten,  Imre Gergely, skrimpy, makeitwork, and Giovanni Battista Salvietti for testing SRUs this week.
[18:10] <sbeattie> As always, we welcome anybody interested in helping to test out SRUs, please feel free to join in #ubuntu-testing and ask questions..
[18:10] <marjo> sbeattie: anything else?
[18:10] <sbeattie> Nope, that's it.
[18:11] <marjo> ok folks, are there any new topics you want to discuss?
[18:11] <marjo> thx Steve
[18:11] <ScottK> I think the failure rate in the current archive rebuild test is concerning.
[18:12] <ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20090909
[18:12] <ScottK> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html
[18:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html
[18:12] <marjo> [TOPIC]  failure rate in the current archive rebuild test
[18:12] <MootBot> New Topic:   failure rate in the current archive rebuild test
[18:12] <ScottK> It's mostly tied to gcc 4.4 changes.
[18:12] <ScottK> The concern is the stuff that is built, but can't be rebuilt is a risk for post-release support.
[18:13] <ScottK> We had a MOTU training session last Friday on fixing FTBFS and another scheduled for this Friday, but it's a lot to fix.
[18:13] <ScottK> This was discussed at the last release team meeting too.
[18:13] <sbeattie> ScottK: do you think we need to be detecting these earlier in the cycle?
[18:14] <ScottK> That'd be nice.
[18:14] <ScottK> We have archive rebuilds in the development schedule, but AFAIK, they aren't being done.
[18:14] <ScottK> This one was started when I asked for it.
[18:14] <cjwatson> yeah, it's only quite recently that we've had the ability to do them ourselves rather than asking IS
[18:14] <cjwatson> and so we haven't got into the habit
[18:15] <ScottK> cjwatson: Maybe it should go on whatever checklist is used for the DIF milestone.
[18:15] <sbeattie> How long does it take? Should it be done on a regular basis?
[18:15] <ScottK> We're a week into this one and it's ~ half done
[18:16] <cjwatson> ScottK: I think this is a bug in me, really
[18:16] <ScottK> OK.
[18:17] <ScottK> I also think we need a more methodical approach to identifying and classifying the sources of failures.
[18:17] <marjo> cjwatson: is there any new action to log here?
[18:18] <marjo> [IDEA]  methodical approach to identifying and classifying the sources of failures
[18:18] <MootBot> IDEA received:   methodical approach to identifying and classifying the sources of failures
[18:19] <cjwatson> marjo: not one that isn't already on other lists (i.e. the release schedule)
[18:19] <marjo> ok thx
[18:20] <marjo> scottk: anything else on this topic?
[18:20] <sbeattie> For the record, the build failure fixing session will be Fri Sep 18, at 1900 UTC in #ubuntu-motu
[18:20] <ScottK> Just a plea for people to help us fix it.
[18:20] <ScottK> Please show up.
[18:21] <marjo> folks: anything other topics?
[18:21] <ara> sbeattie, where can I find logs later on?
[18:21] <fader_> marjo: I'd like to mention the checkbox USB stick stuff :)
[18:21] <fader_> cr3 and I have been working with manjo on the kernel team to prepare a USB stick that will run Checkbox on peoples' machines at the Atlanta Linux Fest this weekend.
[18:21] <marjo> [TOPIC]  checkbox USB stick
[18:21] <MootBot> New Topic:   checkbox USB stick
[18:21] <ScottK> ara: We'll do the session in #ubuntu-motu, so it'll be on irclogs.ubuntu.com
[18:21] <fader_> http://atlantalinuxfest.org/
[18:21] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://atlantalinuxfest.org/
[18:21] <sbeattie> ara: my guess would be the usual IRC log server, but someone going through after the fact and wiki-fying it as a howto would be useful.
[18:22] <fader_> The idea is to get these tests run on many different systems and collect the results to see what works, what doesn't, and where we can most effectively focus resources to improve the user experience
[18:23] <fader_> Hopefully we'll have some good news from this for a meeting in the future.
[18:23] <ara> fader_, who is going to run this?
[18:23] <bdmurray> speaking of checkbox, I ran into an issue yesterday where no tests were running and I reported a bug about it...
[18:24] <cr3> ara: the festival is expecting 500 people, so hopefully they will be running this :)
[18:24] <fader_> ara: manjo is running this at the fest.  He will have a number of USB sticks and some volunteers who will help people run the tests
[18:24] <sbeattie> fader_: do you need help testing of the usb images?
[18:24] <fader_> So we should get a pretty big chunk of results.
[18:24] <cr3> bdmurray: I'd like to push another release today, I'll try to have a look at it. thanks for the report!
[18:24] <fader_> sbeattie: manjo would be the right person to ask about that, but I believe at this point he has them finalized and ready to go
[18:25] <marjo> fader_: anything else on this topic?
[18:25] <fader_> marjo: Nope, unless people have questions
[18:25]  * sbeattie wonders if the images should be made available somewhere for loco events, personal tests, etc.
[18:26] <fader_> sbeattie: We've had similar ideas.  I'm not sure where the best location for this is but it's something we definitely want to consider.
[18:26] <marjo> sbeattie: excellent idea; let's see how it goes at atlanta
[18:26] <davmor2> could be good for GBJ too
[18:26] <fader_> Or even possibly making checkbox more noticeable and accessible from the live environment, so that the CD can be used for this purpose
[18:27] <bdmurray> its hard to put a CD in your pocket ;-)
[18:27] <cr3> fader_: ideally, the checkbox shipped with the live cd should be as useful as the one currently shipped with manjo's usb key
[18:27] <cr3> fader_: I don't like the idea of having another checkbox client floating around
[18:27] <fader_> bdmurray: True, but if the USB creator is used from an ISO I'd expect you'd get the same results :)
[18:27] <marjo> cr3: agree!
[18:28] <fader_> cr3: +1; I would want to get everything merged into mainline checkbox before attempting to get it into the live environment
[18:28] <cr3> marjo: I definately want to have a topic at uds about making this happen with the implication that the certification website be opened for receiving submissions from the public
[18:30] <marjo> cr3: ok
[18:30] <marjo> [ACTION] Include Checkbox topic at UDS
[18:30] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Include Checkbox topic at UDS
[18:31] <marjo> fader_: anything else on this topic?
[18:31] <fader_> marjo: Nope, that's it
[18:31] <fader_> Until we have results :)
[18:31] <marjo> folks: any new topics?
[18:32] <marjo> thx to everyone testing on Alpha6!
[18:32] <marjo> if there's nothing else, then we're done
[18:32] <marjo> for today
[18:33] <marjo> #endmeeting
[18:33] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:33.
[18:33] <fader_> Thanks all
[18:33] <davmor2> Yay thanks
[18:34] <sbeattie> Thanks.