[08:19] <thorwil> good morning!
[08:20] <mrmcq2u> morning
[09:26] <MDC1> morning :)
[09:27] <MDC1> nice splash
[10:20] <kwwii> wow...not artwork, but interesting: http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/How-GNOME-and-KDE-spend-their-money
[10:38] <TheMuso> kwwii: Ok, so the issue with gdm is that everything related to the theme has to be set with gconf keys.
[10:38] <TheMuso> However, we cannot use gconf-defaults, because that will set the default for every user.
[10:38] <TheMuso> So what we have to do, is set gconf keys specific to the gdm user.
[10:42] <mrmcq2u> why would there need to be a different gdm theme for each user
[10:42] <mrmcq2u> how would the system know which one to use
[10:43] <TheMuso> mrmcq2u: Gdm runs as the gdm user. There wouldn't be a different theme for every user of gdm, because the user has not yet logged into their session.
[10:44] <TheMuso> kwwii wants to have a different gdm theme to what is used on the desktop.
[10:45] <mrmcq2u> I dont understand the problem
[10:45] <mrmcq2u> if gdm runs as its own user then shouldnt you be able to change the gtk theme independently of actual users desktop themes
[10:46] <TheMuso> mrmcq2u: kwwii was asking about how a different theme for gdm compared to the desktop will be possible. I am explaining that since gdm now uses parts of gnome-session, that the theme for gdm is set using the same gconf keys as are used for gnome-session.
[10:46] <TheMuso> mrmcq2u: Yes you can, but doing that, and doing it in such a way that derivatives can also do it, is tricky.
[11:08] <mat_t> hey artworkers
[11:08] <knome> hello mat_t
[11:09] <TheMuso> kwwii: In any case, settings these keys requires a postinst script for the package that ships the gdm theme. Then we also need to set up a provides/conflicts/replaces mechanism for derivatives like studi oto use.
[11:09] <mat_t> I've got a question - do you guys know if we have any good wiki page with information about installing Ubuntu using Wubi?
[11:09] <TheMuso> kwwii: I am happy to spend some time on Monday doing the initial code, because Studio will need the same thing for karmic+1 and beyond.
[11:09] <mat_t> In particular, with common questions answered
[11:10] <mat_t> like: what will happen to my files, etc
[11:11] <mat_t> mac_v, thorwil: ^ ?
[11:12] <knome> mat_t, wouldn't #ubuntu or #ubuntu-website be better place to ask that? ;)
[11:14]  * mat_t goes to #ubuntu-website, humbled
[11:15]  * mat_t returns, as there's nobody there
[11:20] <mac_v> mat_t: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wubi
[11:20] <mac_v> google is a friend ;)
[11:21] <mac_v> mat_t: also > http://www.wubi-installer.org/faq.php
[11:24] <knome> mat_t, you didn't even ask on #ubuntu-website, i'm there ;)
[11:25] <mat_t> knome: If I want to ask mpt, he's there in front of me, if I want to ask you or thorwil, well, you're here... ;)
[11:25] <knome> O:)
[11:26] <mat_t> mac_v: thx
[11:26] <mat_t> mac_v: this FAQ is not great for people who want to know what will happen with their Windows installation
[11:26] <mat_t> mac_v: it's not really very explicit
[11:26] <mat_t> But I guess it's the best we have
[11:27] <mac_v> yeah , mat_t but we could also add the info to our wiki... ;p
[11:27] <mat_t> ok, so "how to install" will be directly on Ubuntu.com
[11:27] <mac_v> mat_t: tryin using your powers again today to ping some of the guys from Docu ;)
[11:28] <mat_t> heh
[11:28] <mat_t> I have to be careful, mana runs out quickly
[11:28] <knome> mat_t, you don't have quickly regenerating mana? too bad...
[11:29] <mat_t> So I think it's more important to let people know what will happen with their current files
[11:29] <mat_t> and why they should try ubuntu
[11:29] <mat_t> in the first place :)
[11:32] <knome> what if i came second?
[11:32] <knome> ... ;]
[11:33] <mat_t> knome: you'd get a silver medal
[11:33] <knome> so can i try ubuntu anyway?
[11:33] <knome> or can i only try it when i'm in the first place
[11:33] <mat_t> Ubuntu is only for winners
[11:33] <knome> hehe
[11:34] <mat_t> Losers use M$ Win ;)
[11:34] <knome> what 'bout Mac OS users?
[11:35] <mat_t> OK, I was joking. They're all good people, some of them just need better information.
[11:35] <knome> true :)
[11:45] <mrmcq2u> well Mac OS is still the best solution for creative people.. I can see linux distros catching up soon though
[11:45] <mrmcq2u> we need jokosher/pitivi etc to mature more
[11:50] <thorwil> mat_t: isn't what happens with users windows files simply "nothing"?
[11:50] <mac_v> knome: even bigger looser use OSX ;p [they pay too much for just the brand name]
[11:51] <knome> and the white plasti
[11:51] <knome> +c
[11:51] <thorwil> mrmcq2u: why jokosher if you can have ardour? but a really big hole is the almost complete absence of flash (or comparable) authoring
[11:56] <thorwil> mat_t: anyway, if specific questions come up, https://launchpad.net/~ago can answer them
[12:01] <mac_v> mat_t: how does xsplash identify the size of the screen and which size image to use?
[12:07] <mat_t> mac_v: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicBootExperienceDesignSpec#Layout%20Rules
[12:07] <mat_t> thorwil: exactly. Nothing. We should say it somewhere :)
[12:11] <mac_v> mat_t: that wiki specifies the image sizes to be used... but i'd like to know which size is used in my setup... is it determined by the display resolution ...my display says 1280x800 so the image used would be 1280×1024 ?
[12:12] <mac_v> or 1440×900
[12:14] <mac_v> heh , the throbber looks adorable :)
[12:16] <kwwii> mac_v: it should be the same resolution as your desktop, I think
[12:16] <kwwii> aah, ignore me
[12:16]  * mac_v cant find a 1280x800 image in the splashes :(
[12:16] <kwwii> I should read back further before responding
[12:16] <mac_v> ;)
[12:16] <kwwii> there probably isn't one then
[12:17] <mac_v> yeah
[12:17] <kwwii> I think we still need to add some resolutions
[12:17] <mac_v> \o/
[12:18] <mac_v> kwwii: 1280x800 is very common in widescreens , why has it been left out ? ;)
[12:18] <kwwii> mac_v: to be honest, I do not know if it was left out...I haven't been working on this (Yet)
[12:18] <kwwii> I'll look into it
[12:18] <mac_v> ;) thanks
[12:18] <mac_v>  or is it using the 25600x1600
[12:19] <kwwii> now that would be really bad :p
[12:19] <mac_v> *2560x1600
[12:19] <mac_v> yeah
[12:19] <kwwii> it looks perfect on my thinkpad with 1024x768
[12:20]  * mac_v sees gradient lines in his acer aspire :(
[12:20] <kwwii> except for the fact that the throbber starts and stops and starts when loggin in
[12:20] <kwwii> mac_v: ouch, I was worried about that...the gradients are really hard to scale
[12:24] <mac_v> i think a little more testing is needed for various hardware ...
[12:25] <kwwii> definitely
[12:25] <kwwii> a little more than nothing would be good ;)
[12:44] <mat_t> mac_v: The artwork should always be position centrally on the screen, using the nearest matching resolution that is either the same size as the screen or larger.
[12:45] <mat_t> mac_v: for 1280x800 the 1280x1024 asset should be picked, and cropped verically
[12:45] <mac_v> i read that ... ;p ... but which is closer
[12:45] <mac_v> oh ok
[12:46] <mat_t> mac_v: "nearest matching resolution that is either the same size as the screen or larger." You can't be more precise than that :)
[12:47]  * mat_t updates to finally see the xsplash in action
[12:47] <mac_v> mat_t: hmm.. cropping doesnt seems to work well here , i get the gradients as lines... :(   the 1280x800 is a very common resolution for widescreens .... you might consider adding another size
[12:47] <mac_v> seem*
[12:48] <mat_t> mac_v: cropping, not scaling
[12:48] <mat_t> the image should never be scaled. If it is, it's a bug
[12:49] <mac_v> hmm , but something is not doing the proper work... i think its scaling for me
[12:50] <mac_v> or maybe my screen doesnt handle the resolution or is doing things wrong... meh...
[12:50]  * mac_v replacing splash... ;p
[12:55] <kwwii> mac_v: it might very well be that the gradients on your monitor cause banding
[12:55] <kwwii> it is very common problem
[12:56] <kwwii> even with enough steps some monitors are too light or too dark and do not display the entire colorspace evenly (anyway)
[12:56] <mac_v> yeah , i think so too... too bad these gradients dont work well for me :(
[12:57] <kwwii> if they don't work well for you, I imagine that quite a few others will experience the same thing
[12:57] <kwwii> either that *or* your monitor is not being detected properly, etc
[12:58]  * mac_v wishes the splash was done with a more smoother gradient ;)
[13:00]  * mat_t did not get the new xsplash :(
[13:00] <mac_v> \o/
[13:00] <kwwii> I wonder if we could use some dithering to fix these problems...since it is a normal x session that should not be such a problem as it was on the framebuffer
[13:01] <thorwil> this user deserves a special price: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds?action=diff&rev1=160&rev2=161
[13:02] <kwwii> wtf?
[13:03] <mac_v> mat_t: kwwii: could you check this image> http://imagebin.ca/view/De--AB.html , do you see gradient lines in the glow?
[13:03] <kwwii> sometimes it is a bad idea to let everyone edit the wiki :p
[13:03] <kwwii> did you revert it, or should I?
[13:03] <mac_v> thorwil: lmao .! really wtf!
[13:04] <thorwil> kwwii: did nothing, please revert. note he (?) also attached images to that page
[13:04] <thorwil> i'm simply not in the mood to fix that
[13:05] <mac_v> hehe , i think he misunderstood the page :)
[13:05] <mac_v> kwwii: mat_t: that image i showed was to check if you had gradient lines when viewing as fullscreen :)
[13:06] <thorwil> mac_v: obviously. this all worked so well that i thought i really nailed it, but there's always someone to get it wrong
[13:06] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[13:06] <mac_v> thorwil: at first , i thought he just edited the page , to add his "touch"
[13:12] <thorwil> SiDi: how about you code us a website with a rigid structure to upload images, asking about license, with automagic thumbnail generation, a commenting system with branches plus revisioning? :)
[13:13] <SiDi> thorwil: how about i do some maths instead so i dont have 3/20 in the next exam ? :d
[13:13] <thorwil> SiDi: you want 4/20? ;p
[13:13] <SiDi> i aim 5
[13:13] <thorwil> ambitious
[13:17] <knome> thorwil, isn't that quite a trivial task
[13:18] <thorwil> knome: i guess it would be rather straightforward for someone who already knows his way round one of the big frameworks
[13:19] <knome> i don't know about big frameworks. that just sounds a trivial task to write from scratch :)
[13:21] <Cimi> lucazade, any news? =)
[13:22] <thorwil> knome: i think framework to not have to implement once again nested comments, account management and tagging
[13:23] <knome> thorwil, heh
[13:23] <knome> thorwil, that was what you described earlier ;)
[13:23] <knome> *+not
[13:23] <knome> anyway, bbl ->
[13:23] <thorwil> was all implied ;)
[13:24] <knome> oh
[13:24] <knome> i missed some parts of it :P
[13:24] <knome> lol
[13:24] <knome> see you ->
[13:24] <thorwil> cya
[13:25] <kwwii> mac_v: yes, I see gradients in that pic
[13:25] <kwwii> banding, I mean
[13:25] <kwwii> sorry, cooking my son lunch, bbiab
[13:27] <mac_v> hmm... i get similar banding for the xsplash... :(
[13:37] <kwwii> we have the worlds slowest wiki somethings
[13:37] <kwwii> sometimes
[13:43] <kwwii> the wiki is reverted and the attachments are deleted, thanks for pointing that out, thorwil
[13:44] <thorwil> kwwii: ty
[13:46] <lucazade> Cimi, no news yet
[13:48] <lucazade> i've just enjoyed the new features :)
[15:06] <mat_t> kwwii: just noticed that "documents" and "music" folders look different to the others in the Places menu
[15:07] <mat_t> kwwii: seem to have lost the outline
[15:10] <mat_t> does anyone else have that problem, too?
[15:36] <kwwii> mat_t: yeah, it is a naming problem which I fixed while in london
[15:37] <kwwii> downloads is also using the wrong name and therefor doesn't find the right icon
[15:40] <kwwii> thorwil: btw, you might want to talk to ivanka if you are still interested in making a countdown banner
[15:41] <thorwil> kwwii: i intend to do something this weekend
[15:46] <kwwii> cool :)
[15:49] <mac_v> kwwii: isnt UNR already using the theme you are hoping to do for the gdm?
[15:49] <mac_v> the menu and the submenus are ,i think , what you are expecting to achieve
[15:51] <kwwii> mac_v: no, not really...UNR is/was using Dust
[15:51] <mac_v> kwwii: check out the UNR and the menus ;)
[15:51] <kwwii> ahhh, you mean the other pics in UNR, not the gtk theme
[15:52] <kwwii> I made those as well...and yes, it is pretty close to the same
[15:52] <mac_v> :)
[15:52]  * mac_v wants that theme 
[15:53] <mac_v> kwwii: how did you do that? [only theming the menu] ?
[15:53] <kwwii> well, if you want it, you better start writing a gtk engine for it
[15:53] <mac_v> argh
[15:53] <kwwii> you could use two different theme engines in one theme
[15:54] <mac_v> kwwii: what theme engine does the menu use?
[15:55]  * mac_v thinks kwwii is holding back for karmic and doing such awesome themes in his lair for karmic+1 \o/
[15:57] <artir> I think canonical don't have anything related to a new theme yet
[15:57] <artir> maybe for the next lts or 10.10
[15:57] <mac_v> artir: yup... no new themes for karmic ;)
[15:58] <artir> maybe they have mockups but there is nothing official
[16:06] <artir> or maybe?...
[16:06] <artir> https://launchpad.net/anjali
[16:13] <kwwii> mac_v: it only uses Dust as a theme engine afaik...the menu on the left of the screen is just pixmaps put in place
[16:13] <kwwii> with clutter I think
[16:23] <mac_v> aw... :(
[16:24] <mac_v> i like the way the main menu and the submenu are translucent :) ...
[16:27]  * mac_v pokes kwwii with a pls-make-a-new-similar-gtk-theme-engine stick ;)
[16:36] <artir> mac_v: what theme is that?
[16:37] <mac_v> artir: check out UNR's menu,submenu
[16:37] <artir> ah, the new interface
[16:46] <mat_t> kwwii: any idea about that ethernet icon? Where did it come from?
[16:51] <kwwii> mat_t: it is the one that you made (in berlin I think) based on an idea I did
[16:52] <mat_t> kwwii: hmmm, afaik it was one of the iterations but it was never meant to be part of the human theme
[16:53] <kwwii> mat_t: it has been in the theme since then, but it was not shown on the panel like that before
[16:53] <kwwii> we can easily remove it
[16:53] <kwwii> I just wanted to make sure that you want it removed first ;)
[16:53] <mat_t> let's remove it :)
[16:54] <kwwii> mat_t: the question is what we should replace it with
[16:54] <kwwii> mat_t: I told ivanka and iain that we could all discuss it on monday
[16:54] <mat_t> for lack of anything better - 2 monitors that we used to have?
[16:54] <kwwii> yeah
[16:54] <mat_t> yeah we can discuss it
[16:54] <kwwii> that would be the easiest
[16:55] <mat_t> so let's revert it for now and we'll see if we can come up with anything better
[17:07] <mac_v> kwwii: have a look at the humanity theme icon , i'v done it using connectors , similar to what evolution,firfox use
[17:08] <mac_v> connectors/or whatever its called ;p
[17:09] <mac_v> mat_t: too ^ ;)
[17:28] <kwwii> mac_v: ?
[17:29] <mac_v> kwwii: oops... for the ethernet icon
[17:30] <kwwii> ahhh
[17:30] <kwwii> hrm, looking into it, it seems that asac or someone used this icon on purpose...going to have to change this in the code
[18:04] <mac_v> kwwii: yeah... asac gave me this list of icons... http://paste.ubuntu.com/267971/ but this sounded weird :(
[18:23] <FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
[18:31] <kwwii> mac_v: that is not correct, I think
[18:32] <kwwii> as I do not have that ugly icon named thusly in the human theme
[18:49] <thorwil> http://www.mmiworks.net/eng/publications/2009/09/gimp-single-mode.html
[19:04] <mac_v> yeah , exactly , the one you had done is in the devices and is a different label