[00:00] <rickspencer3> hi robert_ancell
[00:00]  * rickspencer3 pounces
[00:00] <robert_ancell> arrgh!
[00:00] <robert_ancell> :)
[00:01] <TheMuso> Hey rickspencer3, robert_ancell.
[00:01] <rickspencer3> hi TheMuso
[00:02] <robert_ancell> hey TheMuso
[00:14] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, there's 5 minutes you'll never get back
[00:14] <rickspencer3> waiting for me to find an irrelevant email
[00:14] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, :)
[00:18] <bratsche> Hey robert_ancell!
[00:19] <robert_ancell> bratsche, hey cody
[00:19] <robert_ancell> bratsche, how is xsplash going?
[00:20] <bratsche> It's going okay.  David thinks it's loading too slowly on his machine, but we're having no luck so far finding ways to speed it up.
[00:22] <robert_ancell> ah, overheads
[00:23] <robert_ancell> bratsche, hey, could you take a quick look at an old GTK+ bug I filed and see if it is correctly marked invalid? https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=578095
[00:23] <bratsche> Sure.
[00:30] <bratsche> robert_ancell: Christian seems right.. but I also don't think I've ever used GtkAction::visible so maybe I'm not thinking about it right.
[00:30] <robert_ancell> bratsche, it seems odd because then the action visible state doesn't match the n widgets state.  Anyway that change probably broke a lot of peoples code...
[00:31] <bratsche> Did it not always work this way?
[00:33] <robert_ancell> no, I guess gtk_widget_show() used to ignore widgets that were connected to actions
[00:33] <bratsche> Does it still?
[00:34] <robert_ancell> no, you can show() and hide() widgets that are connected to an action.
[00:35] <bratsche> We could try to set "no-show-all" on related widgets I guess.  But if not perhaps we should at least make a note of this in the documentation.
[00:46] <kwwii> just got the xsplash artwork...cool stuff, whoever was responsible, I thank you personally
[00:47] <bratsche> mt
[00:47] <kwwii> lol
[00:47] <bratsche> kwwii: Hey, how's it going?  I got your email this morning.  Let me read it again and remember what I was supposed to respond to, because I forgot to come back to it. :)
[00:47] <kwwii> I bet he didn't include the package in the distro
[00:48] <TheMuso> Yeah I am glad that the artwork package has now been separated. Time to do somethign about Studio's xsplash. :)
[00:48] <kwwii> TheMuso: exactly :)
[00:48] <bratsche> Yeah, I can't wait to see what Studio has!
[00:48] <kwwii> well, I will look forward to seeing how this workson different resolutions
[00:49] <kwwii> I think we have a lot of work ahead ofus
[00:49] <bratsche> kwwii: Oh yeah, I need to find out where the metacity themes should be installed right?
[00:49] <kwwii> sed/ofus/of us
[00:49] <kwwii> bratsche: I cannot figure out how the theme is set
[00:49] <kwwii> it is not a gconf key
[00:49] <kwwii> that I can find at least
[00:49] <kwwii> and it is not in /usr/share/gdm/themes
[00:49] <bratsche> metacity is probably just pulling in whatever gtk theme is set.
[00:50] <kwwii> that still has the old themes in it
[00:50] <kwwii> from the old package I guess
[00:50] <kwwii> I need to update that package to install it into the same dir
[00:50] <kwwii> and then point gdm to that gtk and metacity theme
[00:50] <kwwii> but I don't understand how to do that :p
[00:51] <kwwii> I don<
[00:51] <kwwii> erm
[00:51] <bratsche> What did Jaunty do?  There was custom gdm theming in Jaunty right?
[00:51] <kwwii> Jaunty had the old gdm
[00:51] <bratsche> Oh, we have a different gdm.
[00:51] <kwwii> which had an xml file
[00:51] <kwwii> no doubt ;)
[00:52] <kwwii> there is a panel at the bottom, with lots of applets which we also need to kill
[00:52] <kwwii> honestly, we are way behind the game on gdm
[00:52] <kwwii> anyway
[00:53] <kwwii> the thing is, I cannot find any info on this and everyone I ask tells me that when I figure it out I should tell them
[00:54] <kwwii> anyway...almost 2am...bonne nuit
[00:54] <bratsche> Good night!
[00:55] <chrisccoulson> the theming for GDM now is just the same as a normal user session isn't it? (metacity theme is set in /apps/metacity/general/theme), and all the themes just go in /usr/share/themes
[01:01] <TheMuso> If you mean gdm theme, it now uses parts of the theming from gnome-session, i.e background, etc.
[01:01] <TheMuso> kwwii: I'll jump on later tonight when you are up and I can work through this with you.
[01:03] <TheMuso> bratsche: Basically now that gdm uses parts of gnome-session, the gconf keys that gnome-session/gnome-settings-daemon use to set the theme is what is needed to set the theme for gdm, but only for the gdm user.
[01:04] <chrisccoulson> and you can't change the panel position/layout in the greeter either
[01:04] <chrisccoulson> thats hard coded
[01:04] <chrisccoulson> so if you want no panel, then you need to patch GDM to not draw one
[01:04] <TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Right. That could be changed by adding gconf keys to take care of that.
[01:05] <chrisccoulson> TheMuso - there's no gconf keys for the GDM greeter panel AFAICT
[01:05] <chrisccoulson> it's all hard-coded
[01:06] <TheMuso> chrisccoulson: But my point is that it surely wouldn't be hard to remove the hard coding, and use gconf keys.
[01:09] <Amaranth> heh
[01:09] <Amaranth> Famous last words?
[01:30] <kenvandine> hey robert_ancell
[01:31] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, hey
[01:31] <kenvandine> see my mail about empathy?
[01:31] <kenvandine> it's almost ready :)
[01:31] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, yes, fixed all things except the event problem. I can't see what is wrong with that code...
[01:31] <kenvandine> me either
[01:32] <kenvandine> that code worked before
[01:32] <kenvandine> so either event stuff chanded in empathy
[01:32] <kenvandine> or
[01:32] <kenvandine> libindicate chages
[01:32] <kenvandine> changs
[01:32] <kenvandine> damn
[01:32] <kenvandine> sorry... typing with a baby in my arms
[01:32] <kenvandine> :)
[01:33] <robert_ancell> :)
[01:33] <robert_ancell> say hi to baby from me
[01:33] <kenvandine> :)
[01:33] <bratsche> Hey ken!
[01:33] <kenvandine> i'll try to do the accent
[01:33] <kenvandine> yo bratsche
[01:35]  * kenvandine goes to get the kids to bed
[01:36] <kenvandine> robert_ancell, i hope you have more success than me :)
[01:37] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, heh.  GObject code really is tiresome to work with...
[01:37] <kenvandine> i lost more hair with it today
[01:37] <bratsche> What are you working on?
[01:37] <kenvandine> but it was nice to have someone to hand off to
[01:38] <kenvandine> robert_ancell, i bet bratsche can fix it :)
[01:38] <bratsche> Uh, suddenly I have to go.
[01:38] <bratsche> :)
[01:38] <kenvandine> easily :D
[01:38]  * kenvandine runs for real now
[02:18] <Amaranth> the release notes says software store is going to replace add/remove under applications
[02:18] <Amaranth> I thought mpt said having it under system was the right spot for it to be?
[03:30] <TheMuso> C
[06:21] <Amaranth> bratsche: what should I do to figure out why xsplash isn't working? I just get a black screen until gdm login window
[06:22] <bratsche> Uhh.
[06:22] <bratsche> Check /usr/share/images/xsplash
[06:22] <bratsche> Do you have all the images/
[06:22] <bratsche> ugh, I can't type.
[06:23] <bratsche> I've been drinking way too much tonight.
[06:23] <Amaranth> bratsche: yep
[06:23] <bratsche> Hmm.
[06:24] <bratsche> open a terminal
[06:24] <bratsche> sudo -u gdm xsplash
[06:24] <Amaranth> I get a warning about logging being disabled and it exits
[06:24] <bratsche> Oh weird.. do you have /etc/dbus/system.d/xsplash.conf?
[06:25] <Amaranth> dbus-1 but yes
[06:25] <bratsche> Oh yeah, right.
[06:25] <bratsche> Check the user in that file.. is it gdm?
[06:25] <Amaranth> root
[06:25] <bratsche> wtf
[06:25] <bratsche> It should be gdm.
[06:26] <Amaranth> sudo xsplash does the same thing, btw
[06:26] <bratsche> Try changing that file to say user is gdm.
[06:26] <Amaranth> there we go, fixed
[06:26] <bratsche> Weird.
[06:27] <Amaranth> bratsche: apt-get source xsplash shows the original file says root too
[06:27] <bratsche> Something got b0rked in the packaging then.
[06:27] <Amaranth> or in autogen
[06:27] <bratsche> Yeah, there should be a --with-user=gdm parameter
[06:28] <Amaranth> you don't seem to have any code in data/Makefile.am to generate the xsplash.conf from xsplash.conf.in
[06:28] <bratsche> kenvandine: ^
[06:29] <bratsche> Amaranth: I think it's in configure.ac
[06:30] <bratsche> Amaranth: xsplash-0.8.1/debian/rules sets DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS += --with-user=gdm
[06:30] <Amaranth> in that case perhaps the bug is that xsplash.conf is shipped in the tarball
[06:30] <bratsche> Maybe.
[06:31] <bratsche> I'll ping kenvandine in the morning about it.
[06:31] <Amaranth> hrm, local build worked
[06:44] <bratsche> Hi ara!
[06:44] <ara> hey bratsche1
[06:48] <bratsche> So I just lost a portion of my life arguing with someone  whether "has been disproven" can be considered correct grammar for present perfect tense.
[06:48] <bratsche> I think it's time to go to bed.
[08:06] <pitti> Good morning
[08:06] <pitti> bratsche: this morning, xsplash wasn't flickering
[08:06] <pitti> bratsche: I just noticed that the throbber sometimes stutters, and after some 10 seconds just gets stuck
[08:10] <didrocks> hey pitti
[08:14] <pitti> hey didrocks
[08:34] <seb128> good morning there
[08:35]  * pitti hugs seb128
[08:35] <didrocks> lut seb128 :)
[08:35]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[08:35] <seb128> salut didrocks
[08:35] <seb128> the world didn't break with all the dx updates yesterday? ;-)
[08:52] <davmor2> asac: You probably already know but FF on first start up on (live cd and new system install) is opening Add-ons and there are 2 different versions of Xulrunner (de)/(en) listed in in languages 19.1.2 and crossed beneath each is 1.9.0.8
[09:07] <seb128> what the?
[09:07] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:07] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:07] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[09:07] <chrisccoulson> looking forward to the weekend?
[09:07] <seb128> so my laptop just suspended 3 times in a row without me asking anything
[09:07] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yes!
[09:07] <seb128> but still one work day before
[09:07] <seb128> at least we are unfrozen ;-)
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> heh, yeah, i'm looking forward to it too. but i only have half a work day left:)
[09:09] <seb128> hehe
[09:09] <seb128> I will not say lucky you since I'm not annoyed by doing ubuntu work on friday afternoon ;-)
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, doing ubuntu work on a friday afternoon probably isn't too bad ;)
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti - i was going to work on a MIR for libgda4 this afternoon, but i need to update the package first. i put the upstream changelog in bug 432169 - would you mind taking a quick glance and saying if you think the update would be ok without doing a FF exception?
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> i was actually going to rebase it on debian first, but debian renamed the package names
[09:19] <chrisccoulson> actually, brb, breakfast just arrived at work!
[09:51] <kwwii> TheMuso: hey, any idea what to do with gdm? I assume we just need to make it look for a gconf key for the right theme
[09:53] <Amaranth> kwwii: Actually it uses all the regular desktop theming stuff
[09:53] <Amaranth> so it probably won't just be one key
[09:53] <kwwii> Amaranth: right, but we want to set a different gtk and metacity theme
[09:54] <kwwii> from what I understand it is all hard coded just to use the gnome session settings
[09:59] <mvo> no chriscoulsen today?
[09:59] <mvo> hmmm
[09:59] <seb128> mvo, he's having breakfeast
[09:59] <seb128> breakfast
[09:59] <seb128> he will probably be back soon
[10:02] <mvo> aha, hey chrisccoulson
[10:02] <seb128> see ;-)
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, sorry, i had to disappear for breakfast right after asking you a question ;)
[10:02] <mvo> chrisccoulson: did you get my question about compiz and nvidia?
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> thanks for commenting on the bug by the way
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> hi mvo - i did. i will respond when i get home from work if that is ok:)
[10:03] <TheMuso> kwwii: I am about to have dinner. I'll jump on and chat about it with you afterwards if thats ok.
[10:05] <kwwii> TheMuso: cool, thanks
[10:08] <mvo> chrisccoulson: can you give me a quick overview, i.e. on what hardware/driver you see the failure and how to reproduce maybe?
[10:09] <chrisccoulson> mvo - i will do
[10:12] <Amaranth> asac: Ever hear anything about firefox keyboard shortcuts not working if you use xmodmap to swap control and super?
[10:12] <chrisccoulson> mvo - i'm running the latest 185 version of the driver and i have a 8800GT card. if i switch user using the indicator-session applet (which will lock the screen as it switches VT), i always get a white screen when i switch back to my session again (assuming "unredirect fullscreen windows" is disabled)
[10:13] <seb128> Amaranth, hey
[10:13] <Amaranth> seb128: howdy
[10:13] <seb128> did you look at this keybinding compiz issue?
[10:14] <Amaranth> haven't yet, no
[10:14] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - can you play CD's in rhythmbox ok? I just get a "No URI handler for cdda" warning in the console when i try to play a CD
[10:14] <chrisccoulson> i'm wondering if i'm missing something :-/
[10:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson, there is a bug opened recently on gst-plugins-base0.10
[10:15] <seb128> apparently the cdda handling changed
[10:15] <seb128> and rhythmbox gives uris not working with it
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - ok, thanks. i'll have a look for that one
[10:15] <seb128> I've just read the comment
[10:15] <seb128> I didn't look at the issue yet
[10:15] <seb128> if you want to open an upstream bug you are welcome ;-)
[10:15] <mvo> chrisccoulson: thanks, I will try to reproduce, i got the same driver
[10:15] <seb128> the bug might have been reassigned to rhythmbox
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> mvo - thanks
[10:16] <chrisccoulson> mvo - i'm wondering if the issue could be worked around by locking the screen before doing the VT switch?
[10:16] <chrisccoulson> then everyone could have "unredirect fullscreen windows" disabled
[10:16] <Amaranth> oh crap they haven't fixed that yet?
[10:16] <chrisccoulson> admittedly, it still doesn't solve the underlying driver issue, and other windows that appear on the inactive VT will still appear as white boxes
[10:16]  * Amaranth stabs nvidia repeatedly
[10:17] <Amaranth> I believe we reported that one 3 or 4 years ago...
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - no, it's still not fixed
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> it's so annoying to have white boxes appear everywhere wheni switch users
[10:17] <Amaranth> *sigh*
[10:17] <Amaranth> So...when are we switching to nouveau? :)
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> i hate nvidia
[10:18] <kklimonda> heh
[10:19] <mvo> yeah, I have a vague memeory from the old report that it was supposed to be fixed
[10:19] <mvo> oh well
[10:22] <chrisccoulson> mvo - by "fixed", i think it was actually just "worked around" for the screensaver case
[10:22] <Amaranth> mvo: the workaround was unredirect fullscreen windows
[10:23] <Amaranth> I think that's actually why we enabled it
[10:23] <Amaranth> mvo: btw, I've only seen one user with performance problems on nvidia with that disabled
[10:24] <Amaranth> if we can do something about the screensaver I'd rather leave it disabled considering everything else if affects
[10:26] <chrisccoulson> i'd rather have it disabled too, as it creates a lot of flicker with fullscreen windows and notify-osd
[10:26] <chrisccoulson> perhaps i will try some hacking today to make sure gnome-screensaver-dialog is up and running before switching to another X screen
[10:30] <asac> Amaranth: sounds familiar (modmap thing)
[10:30] <Amaranth> driving me nuts, about to look into another browser :P
[10:30] <Laney> seb128: Did you discover what that superblock timestamp bug was about?
[10:30]  * Laney is seeing it
[10:30] <Laney> might be the wrong utc setting
[10:30] <seb128> Laney, ask Keybuk
[10:31] <Amaranth> Wasn't that the same problem as your time being set in the future every boot?
[10:32] <Laney> i'll tell you in a second ;)
[10:32] <Laney> time is right
[10:33] <Laney> where does it store the utc setting?
[10:33] <Amaranth> hrm, too late for webkit-gtk 1.1.14, I guess?
[10:34] <seb128> Amaranth, no, we will get it
[10:34] <seb128> epiphany-webkit depwait on it
[10:34] <asac> Amaranth: if its needed for latest aepyh then not
[10:34] <Amaranth> yay
[10:35] <Amaranth> I need it for a side project
[10:35] <asac> Amaranth: want to test that gwibber still works with it?
[10:35] <asac> ;)
[10:35] <Amaranth> don't want to carry too many local packages
[10:35] <asac> i wanted to check yesterday, but for me gwibber doesnt work at all atm.
[10:35] <Amaranth> I suppose I could, I have a twitter account
[10:36] <Amaranth> isn't there some automagic way using a watch file to update a package?
[10:36] <Amaranth> I always forget how that works
[10:36] <seb128> get the debian package and build it?
[10:37] <Amaranth> eh?
[10:37] <TheMuso> kwwii: Ok. I'll come into #ubuntu-artwork and we can chat there.
[10:37] <Amaranth> seb128: That'll just build the local version
[10:37] <asac> Amaranth: http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/w/webkit/webkit_1.1.14-1.dsc
[10:38] <Amaranth> kwwii: Does that mean we're getting the awesome gdm theme seen on the wiki? :)
[10:38] <seb128> Amaranth, I didn't understand the question I think
[10:38] <Amaranth> seb128: well the watch file is supposed to be used to get the latest upstream tarball
[10:38] <Amaranth> seb128: but how do you make it do that?
[10:38] <seb128> use uupdate?
[10:41] <mac_v> mpt_: hi... regarding the software store... there seems to be no quick way to launch the installed app... is there any plan for implementing it/adding to the specs ?
[10:47] <mpt_> mac_v, bug 420517 has discussion of that.
[10:49] <mac_v> ah... great ;)
[10:52] <mac_v> hmm... the "Where is it?"button seems an over complication !
[10:55] <mpt> mac_v, overcomplication?
[10:55] <mac_v> yeah... the magical second pointer ;p  commenting on bug ;)
[11:00] <Amaranth> asac: building merged package now, how long does this usually take? :)
[11:00] <asac> a bit ;)
[11:00] <asac> get a coffee in the meantime
[11:00]  * Amaranth has visions of building it on OS X
[11:00] <Amaranth> The only good thing I can say about it is at least it doesn't take as long as firefox
[11:01] <mpt> mac_v, you think that's more complicated than repeating the names of the menus and submenus and making you find them elsewhere?
[11:01] <Amaranth> asac: kind of sucks we have to change the ABI though to add in stuff upstream dropped (for anjal or whatever)
[11:02] <asac> Amaranth: lets just ignore that imo
[11:02] <asac> and rebuild all our packages
[11:02] <Amaranth> too late
[11:02] <asac> to be sure
[11:02] <asac> too late?
[11:02] <mvo> mpt: have you send a ticket to IS yet about the screenshots.ubuntu.com proxy? it would be nice if you could CC me
[11:02] <asac> Amaranth: we want to sync
[11:02] <Amaranth> at least things that expect to work with upstream won't be using that stuff so it won't hurt to drop it
[11:03] <Amaranth> asac: hrm, I'm several minutes into this build too
[11:03] <mpt> mvo, not yet, doing that today
[11:03] <asac> Amaranth: not sure what its too late for then ;)
[11:03] <asac> all i said was: just build debian package ;)
[11:04]  * Amaranth kills build, starts over
[11:04] <mac_v> mpt: i think the presence of a launch option in a dialogue, only available after the install [similar to the Add/remove].. is much simpler. I dont think users are going to confuse SS as an app launcher ;)
[11:04] <asac> but yeah. i think its ok to just dro pthe anjal patch
[11:05] <mvo> thanks mpt
[11:05] <Amaranth> I suspect anjal upstream no longer uses that API
[11:06] <mac_v> mpt: but thats not how you have SS designed , so thinking of a better option :)
[11:07] <mpt> mac_v, the problem with the Add/Remove dialog is that it doesn't actually show you how to launch it later. You can't reopen that post-install dialog.
[11:07]  * asac gets a snack from baker next door
[11:08] <mac_v> mpt: yeah , i realize that problem :) ... had a notion thats why you have thought of this ;)
[11:10] <mac_v> mpt: but something about a second pointer showing up in the main screen doesnt sound right... and if its needed , its better doing it within a modal window of the software store
[11:10] <Amaranth> oh, I see what the deal with anjal is, they made up some API but it hasn't been accepted
[11:11] <mpt> mac_v, better in what way?
[11:11] <mpt> mac_v, I'm not overly attached to using a separate pointer. Another way would be to draw a ring around the menu and wait for you to open it yourself, then draw a ring around the appropriate submenu, etc.
[11:13] <mpt> Windows Vista was going to have a similar help mechanism (but Microsoft pulled it before release).
[11:16] <mac_v> mpt: having 2 pointers show up on the screen , something totally creeps me out... it sounds like something overridding the system...  but if its done within the SS itself its better , ie: users clicks "where is it" , the screen changes to a desktop and shows the menu and the location... but i think we are over thinking the capacity if users to understand and trying to over spoon feed them. ;p  .... i like the idea of the rings , only problem is
[11:16] <mac_v>  its similar to XP [highlighting the installed menu,submenu]
[11:17] <mpt> Why is that a problem?
[11:17] <mac_v> hehe ,yeah... not a problem ;)
[11:18] <pitti> seb128: do you happen to know the current state of bug 421318? Seems quite dead upstream
[11:18] <seb128> no
[11:18] <seb128> I'm not even sure where the bug is
[11:19] <seb128> when we started gettings bugs about it totem didn't change for a while
[11:19] <seb128> could be python, pygobject, pygtk
[11:19] <seb128> it would require somebody with a clue about python to debug it
[11:19] <seb128> I don't understand python valgrind logs
[11:19] <pitti> ok; I put it down as "not investigated yet" on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[11:19] <seb128> and I didn't stop anything in git commits that should make a difference there
[11:20] <seb128> stop -> spot
[11:20] <kwwii> Amaranth: yes, that is the idea :)
[11:20] <pitti> we got a large chunk of new bugs this week apparenlty
[11:20] <pitti> "new" on the release radar, that is
[11:20] <pitti> OTOH our bug fix turnaround was awesome this week
[11:20] <seb128> pitti, I've started adding some from my list as discussed yesterday
[11:20] <pitti> seb128: right, that's good, thanks
[11:20] <seb128> np
[11:21] <seb128> I've mislestoned a lot of gdm bugs too
[11:21] <seb128> expect that to continue this afternoon too
[11:26] <pitti> seb128: btw, we should also milestone the broken timed login
[11:26] <pitti> after autologin
[11:26] <pitti> not for beta, but for final IMHO
[11:26] <seb128> I'm not convinced that's a bug
[11:26] <seb128> or rather an issue
[11:26] <seb128> upstream argue that's a feature
[11:27] <pitti> hm
[11:27] <seb128> you can switch user from the fusa
[11:27] <pitti> you couldn't ever get out of an autologin, though
[11:27] <pitti> (if only I could...)
[11:27] <pitti> fglrx crashes on two X screens..
[11:27] <pitti> but anyway, if that was discussed already, ok
[11:27] <seb128> deserve you for using binary drivers ;-)
[11:27] <pitti> I just don't see the sense of this TBH
[11:28] <pitti> autologin only really makes sense the very first time when gdm starts
[11:28] <seb128> read the upstream bug to see their point
[11:28] <seb128> they say it's mainly for kiosks
[11:28] <seb128> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=587606
[11:29] <seb128> but I agree we might want to prefer timed login for desktop use
[11:29] <pitti> except that most people who use autologin probably don't use it for a kiosk..
[11:30] <seb128> right
[11:31] <seb128> pitti, set a milestone to it now too
[11:33] <seb128> 9 gdm bugs milestoned for karmic ...
[11:33] <pitti> I followed up upstream
[11:33] <seb128> thanks
[11:34] <pitti> seb128: since it already identified the patch that changed it, fixing this would be to revert that; not too hard, I hope
[11:40] <Amaranth> yay webcore finally built
[11:40]  * Amaranth is seeing the light at the end of the tunnel
[11:48] <asac> nice
[11:49] <asac> Amaranth: so liferea, gwibber, midori maybe to get a first idea ;)
[11:50] <asac> devhelp
[11:53] <pitti> is webcore the new webkit?
[11:54] <pitti> I'm off for two hours for some errands and lunch
[11:54] <Amaranth> pitti: webcore, javascriptcore, and I think a couple other *cores all get linked together to make webkit
[11:55] <pitti> ah, thanks
[11:55] <Amaranth> woo it's on make install
[11:58] <asac> jcastro: i assume you forgot to drop the xulrunner-1.9 depends in listen?
[11:59] <asac> jcastro: i will drop that now - seems like everything is webkit
[12:00] <asac> hmm
[12:01] <asac> so now filebug redirects me to wiki page
[12:01] <asac> wahts the trick to file bugs without ubuntu-bug ;)
[12:01] <asac> oh got it
[12:01] <asac> was hidden on wiki
[12:03] <Amaranth> gah, I swear dpkg got even slower at reading its database
[12:05] <Amaranth> what the hell, some guy managed to change the status of an upstream bug on bug 429241
[12:06] <Amaranth> but it's still linked to fd.o bugzilla
[12:06] <asac> heh. hopefully gets reset on next upstream status sync run
[12:07] <seb128> there was a bug in the ajax thing allow to change settings
[12:07] <seb128> but I think that was fixed
[12:08] <seb128> bug #400222
[12:14] <Amaranth> I can't figure out how to change it back but I'm pretty sure the guy is upset because he is still seeing the bug (because the packages with the fix are not available yet)
[12:15] <Amaranth> hrm, gwibber not showing anything
[12:16] <Amaranth> oh, wrong username/password
[12:17] <Amaranth> gwibber doesn't tell you that, I had to try to login on twitter.com
[12:18] <Amaranth> I can see why this thing didn't get into the default install...
[12:20] <asac> Amaranth: for me gwibber doesnt work at all (even without new webkit) ... does not show any dents/tweets
[12:20] <Amaranth> the preferences window is broken
[12:21] <Amaranth> is this a git snapshot of pre-0.1 software or something?
[12:21] <asac> regression due to webkit?
[12:21] <asac> a bzr snapshot
[12:21] <asac> you can try a more recent snapshot ;)
[12:21] <Amaranth> preferences window doesn't use webkit
[12:21] <asac> one second
[12:21] <Amaranth> the close button is not connected to anything
[12:21] <asac> yes. gwibber is pretty above the edge atm
[12:21] <asac> Amaranth: bzr branch lp:gwibber
[12:22] <asac> then killall gwibber gwibber-daemon
[12:22] <asac> and run inside that dir: ./bin/gwibber-daemon
[12:22] <asac> and ./bin/gwibber
[12:26] <Amaranth> asac: epiphany seems to work with acid 3, slashdot, and youtube
[12:28] <Amaranth> same with midori
[12:29] <asac> Amaranth: try ssl sites
[12:29] <asac> Amaranth: please check liferea
[12:29] <asac> and devhelp
[12:30] <Amaranth> ok, gmail works with midori and epiphany
[12:30] <Amaranth> and my bank works with epiphany
[12:31] <Amaranth> liferea seems to work, I'm reading planet ubuntu
[12:32] <Amaranth> deleted gnome files and added my blog, all working
[12:33] <Amaranth> wow the last 10 updates in my blog go back 2 years
[12:34] <asac> Amaranth: any python-webkit app would be great
[12:34] <asac> assuming we dont get gwibber to work ;)
[12:34] <Amaranth> reading webkit docs in devhelp
[12:37] <Amaranth> yay my personal project works
[12:37]  * Amaranth tests software-store
[12:38] <Amaranth> not sure what parts of that use python-webkit but it seems to be displaying things alright
[12:40] <Amaranth> asac: I can tweet from the bzr checkout of gwibber but can't see anything
[12:40] <Amaranth> opposite of the one in the repo :P
[12:40] <asac> hmm
[12:40] <Amaranth> I'm going to say that's all gwibber fail
[12:40] <asac> Amaranth: what errors are you seeing on console?
[12:40] <Amaranth> zero
[12:41] <asac> kenvandine: wake?
[12:42] <asac> kenvandine: can you confirm that gwibber is in broken in general in bzr? e.g. not diplaying any dents
[12:43] <Amaranth> i've got identi.ca and twitter setup on there now, getting nothing
[12:43] <Amaranth> but considering how many other bugs I found in about 5 minutes of poking I'm not sure what to think
[12:45] <Amaranth> going back to 1.1.13
[12:46] <Amaranth> gwibber fails the same way with 1.1.13
[12:46] <asac> ok
[12:46] <Amaranth> asac: I think we're fine with getting 1.1.14 in
[12:46] <asac> so i would think all is fine
[12:46] <asac> seb128: ^ .. can you sync please or do you need some exception bug?
[12:49] <soren> Are we likely to sync gstreamer again the cycle? If not, I have a few cherry picks I'd like to do.
[12:50] <Amaranth> huzzah, I got gwibber (package) working with 1.1.14 even
[12:50] <Amaranth> just had to tell it to refresh a couple times
[12:53]  * soren is not sure if gstreamer micro releases fall under the GNOME umbrella of stuff we keep syncing after FF.
[12:56] <asac> soren: i think unless gnome pulls it in, we dont do that automatically
[12:56] <asac> what bugs need to be fixed?
[12:57] <soren> bug #431027
[12:57] <soren> to fix it, I need http://git.gnome.org/cgit/rhythmbox/commit/?id=c4931555a29b102d4cba6dcb02123fd50ced9a8d applied to rhythmbox...
[12:58] <seb128> asac, I can sync
[12:58] <soren> and http://cgit.freedesktop.org/gstreamer/gst-plugins-base/commit/?id=6781c4c9c599561a3ca2f964ef9a60b653ee710d and http://cgit.freedesktop.org/gstreamer/gst-plugins-base/commit/?id=901dbc6ab4579398cc1b5f7a80a52a101cfaef54 applied to gstreamer-plugins-base.
[12:59] <soren> these are not in any releases yet (they were only just done yesterday), so a sync won't do it right now.
[12:59] <asac> seb128: thx
[12:59] <seb128> soren, not sure if they do but I do syncs, ie I synced yesterday evening
[13:00] <seb128> soren, the current versions are pre-version for the next stable
[13:00] <seb128> we will get the stable one
[13:00] <soren> seb128: I see.
[13:00] <asac> gst releases in sync with gnome?
[13:00] <seb128> not really
[13:00] <asac> or just this time?
[13:00] <asac> ok
[13:00] <seb128> but they try to align
[13:01] <seb128> and we do try to get the new versions when they align
[13:02] <Amaranth> btw, http://arstechnica.com/open-source/guides/2009/07/how-to-build-a-desktop-wysiwyg-editor-with-webkit-and-html-5.ars/2 works with 1.1.14 too :)
[13:02]  * Amaranth will stop testing stuff now
[13:03] <seb128> Amaranth, yeah, fix compiz rather than playing with webkit ;-)
[13:08] <Amaranth> ok so keybindings set via keyboard shortcuts don't get reset apparently
[13:08] <Amaranth> because my maximize vertically keybinding has never gone away
[13:08] <Amaranth> keybindings in there that metacity uses too, I mean
[13:09] <Amaranth> that would imply it's not a problem with the ccp gconf backend
[13:10] <soren> asac, seb128: The rhythmbox patch is in the new rhythmbox release (from half an hour ago).
[13:11] <soren> so we'll get that one for free next time we sync.
[13:11] <seb128> soren, ok, already on my update list
[13:11] <soren> seb128: Ta very much.
[13:11] <seb128> np, thanks for tracking the issue ;-)
[13:11]  * soren was in the middle of ripping about a million CD's when this upgrade came along :)
[13:11] <soren> ..so it's something I rather care about :)
[13:12] <seb128> hehe
[13:13] <lool> seb128: Hey
[13:13] <lool> seb128: Can I chat with you about telepathy-mission-control-5?
[13:13] <seb128> yes sure
[13:13] <lool> seb128: We have a serious issue with the Ubuntu Moblin Remix
[13:13] <lool> seb128: We build this image from karmic + moblin PPA
[13:14] <lool> One of the software is called anerley and only knows about the C API
[13:14] <lool> But TMC 5 dropped the C API in favour of the DBus one
[13:14] <lool> The effort to port it is significant and while we raised this as a priority item upstream it looks like they wont provide a ported anerley soon
[13:15] <lool> seb128: I was told enabling libmcclient in t-m-c-5 would help us in the mean time
[13:15] <lool> seb128: Do you think we could enable that?  It's a highly unstable C API
[13:15] <seb128> cassidy, pitti: ^ opinions?
[13:15] <seb128> lool, you don't think you will manage to fix your software or replace it before karmic?
[13:16] <seb128> I'm not especially looking forward enabling unstable apis there
[13:16] <cassidy> seb128, lool: you should ask to jonnylamb on #telepathy, he's working on porting Moblin to MC5
[13:17] <lool> seb128: It seems unlikely
[13:17] <lool> seb128: but could happen
[13:17] <lool> we dont really know
[13:17] <lool> cassidy: Oh he is
[13:17] <lool> cassidy: That's really good to know
[13:17] <seb128> investigate what cassidy said first maybe?
[13:17] <cassidy> lool, don't know the details, you should really ask him
[13:18] <lool> seb128: Yeah definitely
[13:18] <lool> seb128, cassidy: THanks
[13:18] <seb128> thank you for raising the issue ;-)
[13:18] <seb128> let we know what you can figure after talking to upstream still
[13:19] <lool> ok
[13:26] <cassidy> seb128, btw, would be good to sync https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/+bug/429378
[13:26] <seb128> cassidy, ok will do
[13:28] <asac> seb128: extensions feel still pretty broken with ephy-webkit :/
[13:28] <seb128> how so?
[13:30] <asac> seb128: not. sure. greasemonkey 2.27.92 doesnt work ... adblock has issues too
[13:31] <asac> seb128: anyway. is ephy-webkit now unblocked for .92
[13:31] <asac> ?
[13:31] <seb128> unblocked?
[13:31] <asac> i am currently working against .91 i think
[13:31] <seb128> webkit will be synced too
[13:31] <seb128> I'm looking to other syncs pending before flushing those
[13:32] <asac> ok let me know when its in
[13:32] <seb128> ok
[13:32] <seb128> expect at least 2 hours
[13:32] <seb128> one one for build and one for publishing
[13:32] <asac> sure
[13:37] <pitti> re
[13:39] <seb128> pitti, wb
[13:40] <pitti> seb128: hm, I'm afraid I don't know about libmcclient
[13:40] <pitti> if the mobile guys need it and will care for it, I don't particularly mind
[13:40] <seb128> pitti, I don't either
[13:40] <seb128> ok, same here
[14:14] <rickspencer3-afk> hi all
[14:16] <rickspencer3_> seb128, asac pitti kenvandine - what's the work on street regarding alpha 6?
[14:16] <pitti> rickspencer3_: it's out, with a few documented warts
[14:16] <seb128> hey rickspencer3_, what pitti said
[14:16] <rickspencer3_> right
[14:16] <pitti> and as soon as the freeze was lifted, a looot of goodness landed \o/
[14:16] <rickspencer3_> but any feedback from users?
[14:17] <rickspencer3_> I can see that my inbox has quite a few karmic changes!
[14:17] <pitti> yes, from Madkiss^W^W^Wnothing particluar
[14:18] <rickspencer3_> I see Till was busy today!
[14:18] <kenvandine> pitti, i am following the indicator-session/polkit-1 thing, it is milestoned for beta in ayatana
[14:18]  * kenvandine will keep cracking the whip on ted :)
[14:19] <kenvandine> rickspencer3_, i am SO happy to see the new artwork in xsplash :)
[14:19] <kenvandine> that throbber was killing me
[14:19] <rickspencer3_> kenvandine, agreed
[14:19] <rickspencer3_> it looks nice
[14:19] <rickspencer3_> now it's time for Foundations to finish the job
[14:19] <rickspencer3_> :)
[14:21] <pitti> kenvandine: good morning; thanks
[14:21] <pitti> absolutely!
[14:21] <pitti> now it's just stuttering, but at least it looks much nicer!
[14:21] <pitti> kwwii: btw, do you happen to have a few spare cycles to put in mat_t's new usplash-theme-ubuntu artwork?
[14:21] <pitti> I already disabled the progress bar in the branch
[14:21] <pitti> but we still need to integrate the new pics
[14:28] <chrisccoulson> fantastic! i finish work for the week and the weather is nice outside :)
[14:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
[14:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, want to do the vala update?
[14:29] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, can do
[14:29] <seb128> there is 0.7.6 in unstabl
[14:29] <seb128> unstable
[14:30] <chrisccoulson> cool, i'll take a look at that
[14:30] <seb128> it's only changing the rules to make the testsuite fail on errors
[14:30] <seb128> we should convince slomo to apply that to debian too
[14:30] <chrisccoulson> yeah, should be an easy update
[14:30] <chrisccoulson> i mentioned it to slomo before when i did the change in ubuntu
[14:31] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm not sure whether i should just update libgda4 to the new upstream version, or also rebase it on debian. if i rebase on debian now, then the package is less maintenance in the future, but they renamed the binary packages
[14:32] <chrisccoulson> which would mean rebuilding it's rdepends (which is only anjuta and libgdamm anyway)
[14:32] <seb128> better to rename the binaries earlier
[14:32] <seb128> less delta to carry for the next lts
[14:32] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, just two rdepends sounds bearable
[14:32]  * Laney votes for yay
[14:32] <pitti> so I concur with seb128, too
[14:32] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i'll do that then. would you be able to apporve the packages in NEW when i do it?
[14:32] <chrisccoulson> /apporve/approve
[14:33] <pitti> kenvandine: anything worthwhile mentioning for dx integration at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus ?
[14:33] <pitti> Riddell: would you mind updating https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus for kubuntu?
[14:33] <kenvandine> not really
[14:33]  * kenvandine reads
[14:35] <kenvandine> pitti, i removed the art work comment about xsplash
[14:35] <pitti> ah, indeed
[14:36] <Riddelll> pitti: yes indeed
[14:39] <kenvandine> pitti, question... that couchdb/couchdb-bin split
[14:39] <kenvandine> shouldn't couchdb-bin conflict with older versions of couchdb?
[14:39] <kenvandine> not replace?
[14:39] <kenvandine> or perhaps do both
[14:40] <pitti> in fact both
[14:40] <kenvandine> ok
[14:40] <kenvandine> that is broken then :/
[14:40] <pitti> replaces: is the more critical part then
[14:40] <kenvandine> Replaces is there now
[14:40] <kenvandine> but not conflicts
[14:40] <pitti> kenvandine: nah, it's okay; with conflicts: it's a little cleaner and avoids trouble when moving conffiles
[14:40] <kenvandine> someone complained about a failed update
[14:40] <pitti> kenvandine: but yes, the package is still broken in the sense that too much was moved to -bin
[14:41] <pitti> all the /var and /etc/ stuff should stay in couchdb
[14:41] <kenvandine> oh
[14:41] <kenvandine> and that is still noted in the bug
[14:41] <kenvandine> ok
[14:43] <kwwii> pitti: working on gdm atm...what exacty do you need?
[14:44] <pitti> kwwii: mat_t sent new usplash logos the other day for usplash-theme-ubuntu, with some instructions which to use for which resolutio and at which position
[14:46] <kwwii> pitti: while I do know how to do it, I won't have time until the middle of next week or so...he had told me that you were taking care of it all :)
[14:46] <pitti> kwwii: ok; was worth a try :)
[14:47] <kwwii> pitti: if it is not done by the time I get done with what I am currently working on, I can take care of it
[14:53] <bratsche> pitti: Yeah, I know about the throbber doing that.  I don't know what to do about it.  Seems like scheduling problems maybe, but I don't know.
[15:01] <tgpraveen> what is the name for the default theme in ubuntuz/
[15:02] <tgpraveen> has it been updated for karmic aas compared to jaunty?
[15:02] <tgpraveen> *ubuntu
[15:05] <kenvandine> pitti, can you upload bug 424491
[15:05] <kenvandine> please :)
[15:05] <jcastro> asac: at the time I don't think I knew about dropping those.
[15:09] <Amaranth> jcastro: fix gwibber please
[15:10]  * seb128 is away for some errands
[15:10] <seb128> bbl
[15:13] <kenvandine> Amaranth, specific bugs?
[15:14] <kenvandine> Amaranth, i am hoping to get some of my indicator stuff merged into trunk today
[15:14] <kenvandine> my branch seems to be behaving better than trunk is ;)
[15:14]  * Amaranth clicks on report problem
[15:14] <Amaranth> wtf, obsolete packages?
[15:14] <kenvandine> Amaranth, i suspect flood gates opened after alpha6 :)
[15:16] <jcastro> Amaranth: everythhing is kenvandine's fault. (just kidding) what's the problem?
[15:16] <kenvandine> :)
[15:16] <Amaranth> it tends to not show anything
[15:16] <Amaranth> sometimes clicking reload a couple times helps
[15:16] <kenvandine> Amaranth, that is fixed
[15:16] <Amaranth> apport throws up an error when I click on preferences
[15:16] <kenvandine> just not released yet
[15:16] <Amaranth> kenvandine: actually no, bzr is worse
[15:16] <kenvandine> Amaranth, not in my branch :))
[15:17] <kenvandine> just make sure you use the account tree view for now
[15:17] <jcastro> yeah that dropbox at the top is definately broken/flaky
[15:18] <kenvandine> jcastro, ryan said sandy might have a fix
[15:18] <kenvandine> he at least knows why it is broken
[15:18] <kenvandine> ryan has too much magic in that stuff :)
[15:19] <kenvandine> something about the account tree and the combobox always exist, but depending on your view it shows and hides them
[15:19] <kenvandine> and making changes to one changes the others behind you... etc
[15:19] <Amaranth> why does tweeting not show my tweet right away? :)
[15:19] <jcastro> it's supposed to
[15:19] <kenvandine> mine does
[15:19] <Amaranth> I had to refresh again
[15:25] <pitti>     - don't list software-store (lp: #431882)
[15:25] <pitti> seb128: ^ oh?
[15:28] <kenvandine> pitti, did you see my sponsoring request?
[15:31] <pitti> re
[15:31] <pitti> sorry, I just need to finish that psql security update
[15:31] <mpt> mvo, for bug 430200, why would it require gksu to do the repairs?
[15:31] <pitti> kenvandine: looking
[15:32] <kenvandine> pitti, bug 424491
[15:32] <kenvandine> it's on my ayatana hit list for the week :)
[15:32] <pitti> yup, saw it in scrollback now, doing
[15:32] <kenvandine> thx!
[15:32] <mvo> mpt: we have two options, one is to throw up the hands and say "its broken, see how you can fix it", the other one is to run "update-manager" in repair mode. now update-manager in repair mode is a modified version of the release upgrader
[15:33] <mvo> mpt: and it needs root to run (no fancy aptdaemon backend unfortunately)
[15:33] <mvo> alternatively we could try to repair ourselfs, but I would rather have one central app that can do it (and that would be u-m)
[15:34] <pitti> kenvandine: ah, I just see tedg's PPA branch there; I won't use that then, and just upload your debdiff? or do you also have an ubuntu-desktop branch for ubuntu now?
[15:34] <kenvandine> yes
[15:34] <kenvandine> just debdiff
[15:34] <kenvandine> i followed your advice :)
[15:34] <asac> jcastro: ok thanks. i dropped it now
[15:35] <pitti> kenvandine: uh, what a patch :)
[15:35] <mpt> mvo, ok. Next question: In what situations can the Store discover that the cache is broken? Could it happen at any time while the Store is open? Or would it always be immediately after launch?
[15:37] <kenvandine> pitti, hopefully it will be the only change for karmic :)
[15:38] <mvo> mpt: it could in theory happen anytime (because the user installs something out-of-band). but usually it would appear on startup
[15:38] <mvo> mpt: also not quite on startup, because the cache is opened in the background, so it maybe ~10-30s later
[15:41] <Amaranth> libindicate-qt0 ships a libindicate-qt.so.1 file when it used to ship a libindicate-qt.so.0 file
[15:41] <Amaranth> Shouldn't the package name have changed?
[15:42] <mpt> mvo, ok, so I guess it needs to be an error alert of some sort, rather than (for example) a replacement for the lobby screen. Next question: What do you mean by "broken" specifically? Can you give an example of how this happens?
[15:45] <mvo> mpt: if someone uses dpkg directly and does not honor dependencies, if someone shuts down the machine (via pulling the powercord) during a running upgrade etc
[15:45] <mvo> mpt: this is the usual situation
[15:46] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - yes it should have changed if the SO version changed
[15:47] <lool> seb128: Hey; so I chatted about telepathy/moblin with the #telepathy folks and they shared the ported moblin bits (yeah!)
[15:47] <lool> seb128: The only issue is that this needs new ABI
[15:47] <lool> So they will release a new telepathy-glib which has it in the next two weeks
[15:47] <lool> seb128: Would be good to have it in karmic
[15:48] <lool> In the mean time, we'll either add the new ABI as ubuntu or karmic specific abi/api as a new binary package or namespaced headers (or even new source) - OR- add the headers straight to the moblin apps
[15:48] <lool> seb128: Will come with reviewable stuff when that's clearer
[15:48] <lool> seb128: Shouldn't be disruptive for you; the main things we want is the new telepathy-glib in karmic if possible but not strictly required
[15:55] <mpt> mvo, ok. Final question for this bug (I think): Does it make any sense to let someone continue using the Store with the cache in its broken state? How likely is it that they'll experience missing applications, uninstallable applications, etc, until it's fixed?
[15:59] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: what importance do you think a bug like that should have in launchpad?
[15:59] <Amaranth> I wanna say High since it's a pretty big issue since it's essentially hiding problems from them
[16:00] <mvo> mpt: browsing is fine, the results of installing/removing something is pretty undefinied at this point though
[16:00] <mvo> mpt: its likely that it will just throw a error in this case
[16:00] <pitti> kenvandine: hm, seems someone beat me to uploading pidgin-libnotify?
[16:00] <kenvandine> ?
[16:00] <pitti> kenvandine: argh, no
[16:00] <kenvandine> i didn't see it in the changes
[16:00] <pitti> ubuntu9 was used as a jaunty-proposed SRU
[16:00] <kenvandine> oh
[16:01] <pitti> will reupload as ubuntu10
[16:01] <mpt> mvo, ok, so maybe the error alert should appear at the point you click "Install" or "Remove" for any application if the cache is broken. Would that make sense?
[16:02] <mvo> mpt: yes, that would work. I'm not sure if its not something we should tell the user right from the start though. but I don't have a strong opinion aobut this
[16:05] <mvo> mpt: I'm pretty concerened  about the deboconf fialures btw (bug #430569)
[16:05] <kenvandine> pitti, thx
[16:08] <mpt> mvo, ok. Sorry I thought I had finished asking questions, but: How difficult is it to add an icon to the right edge of a row in the navigation pane (no matter how wide the pane is), in addition to the existing icon on the left? (I'm asking because we could stick a /!\ icon next to "Installed Software" as a warning that stuff is broken even before you try to install.)
[16:09] <mvo> mpt: probably not terrible difficult
[16:09] <mpt> mvo, ok, I'll do a spec for this now.
[16:09] <mvo> mpt: could you give me a quick feedback on "The database is rebuilding, please hold on a minute" ?
[16:10] <mvo> mpt: a better string
[16:10] <mpt> mvo, where is this appearing? In a progress window, or in the main pane?
[16:11] <mvo> mpt: main paine, but as a big overlay (for now)
[16:11] <mvo> mpt: the string is important, the actual appearance can be tweaked
[16:12] <mpt> mvo, I suggest "Rebuilding application catalog…", then underneath have a determinate progress bar if determinate progress is available, otherwise a spinner
[16:13] <mvo> mpt: a spinner like the loading icon? or a progressbar in pulse mode?
[16:13] <mpt> mvo, in what situation does that appear? I thought this whole previous conversation was because the Store *couldn't* rebuild the database itself? :-)
[16:13] <mpt> mvo, like the one used when loading screenshots
[16:14] <mvo> mpt: if update-manager is used for example, or if someone updates the software-store package from within the store
[16:16] <mvo> mpt: thanks for the string, I updated it now. I hope we will not have to use it, but for now I will go with that solution
[16:16] <mvo> mpt: its better than crashing :)
[16:16] <mpt> definitely
[16:16] <mpt> mvo, hm, I understand this less than I thought I did. If update-manager is being used to do the rebuilding, how is the Store able to show the rebuilding at all?
[16:18] <mvo> mpt: so software-store does not have a package managment lock. if another apps is doing a package managment operation while software-store is running it needs to react.
[16:18] <mvo> mpt: and one operation that crashes it is a update to e.g. app-install-data or software-store itself
[16:18] <mvo> does that make more sense now?
[16:20] <mpt> mvo, so is this an accurate example? (1) I'm looking at the Games department. (2) In a terminal, I do apt-get install hedgewars. (3) When apt-get finishes, the Store notices this and puts up its rebuilding message.
[16:21] <mvo> mpt: only if the apt-get install touches a file in /usr/share/app-install or software-store itself. then a database rebuild is performed
[16:21] <mvo> mpt: a more realisitic example is that someone get a update for app-install-data-partner because we ship some shinny new application
[16:21] <mvo> mpt: while browsing the store
[16:22] <mvo> (he may have auto-updates enabled for example)
[16:23] <mvo> now if the apt cache changes, it needs to react too, but that is not implemented yet
[16:26] <mpt> mvo, ah, so by "if someone updates the software-store package" you meant if they update it elsewhere (e.g. from Update Manager) while the Store is running.
[16:26] <mvo> mpt: exactly
[16:26] <mpt> ok
[16:27] <mvo> mpt: I have uploaded a new version with the changes, there is no spinner currently, I think its easy (trivial even) to add one, its also relatively easy to add progress information. its a simple-matter-of-programming
[16:27] <mpt> ha, I'm too slow
[16:27] <mvo> too slow?
[16:28] <mpt> Given what you've just told me, I was just about to suggest something like: "Another program has changed the application catalog. One moment, please…"
[16:28] <mvo> oh, sorry
[16:28] <mpt> Doesn't particularly matter, though
[16:29] <mpt> hey rugby471
[16:29] <rugby471> mpt: hi, blimey you are quick on seeing me sign in :-)
[16:29] <mvo> hey rugby471
[16:29] <rugby471> mvo: hello
[16:30] <mpt> rugby471, if you have time I was going to ask if you might be interested in having a swing at bug 426257, but if I understand mvo correctly, it's quite difficult
[16:32] <mvo> mpt: oh, did I say that? I don't think its very difficult, just work (or maybe it is and I forgot already why ;)
[16:33] <mpt> oh good
[16:33] <rugby471> mpt & mvo: sure I can take a stab at that
[16:33] <mpt> thanks rugby471!
[16:33] <rugby471> unless mvo is already working on it
[16:33] <mpt> I think that's the biggest UX-related bug at the moment (besides, y'know, the crashers and stuff)
[16:33] <rugby471> hehe
[16:33] <mvo> rugby471: no, I'm done with s-s for today
[16:33] <rugby471> mvo: cool
[16:35] <mpt> mvo, btw, I saw on the project Code page that you were working on the path button stuff. How's that going? (Launchpad annoyingly wouldn't let me try the branch without an SSH key)
[16:35] <mvo> rugby471: you can make the "rebuilding cataglog" window pretty if you want :)
[16:35] <rugby471> mpt: it looks awesome
[16:35] <rugby471> mvo: okay I shall have a look :-)
[16:36] <mvo> mpt: good, it looks very nice, but its not functional yet (the integration, the widget itself is ok AFAICT)
[16:36] <rugby471> mpt: I shall need to watch mock the week first though :-)
[16:36] <mvo> mpt: its risky to add though, it will be funny for people doing right-to-left languages for example
[16:36] <pitti> kwwii, mat_t: do you know whom to complain at about the horrible ethernet icon in network-manager? that got into karmic a few weeks ago
[16:36] <pitti> and didn't fix itself yet
[16:36] <mpt> rugby471, you're a Brit? I thought you were in SA or somewhere
[16:36] <rugby471> mpt: nope :-) why did you think that?
[16:36] <mpt> jolly good show, what
[16:36] <rugby471> hehe
[16:38] <rugby471> mpt: do you watch mock the week?
[16:38] <mpt> rugby471, because of the pin pointing at South Africa on your Launchpad page.
[16:38] <rugby471> mpt: really, well that is wrong :-)
[16:39]  * rugby471 realises that mpt has been scouring his launchpad user for details...
[16:39] <rugby471> :-)
[16:39] <mpt> pitti, ivanka and kwwii are going to sort it.
[16:39] <pitti> mpt: many thanks
[16:42] <mat_t> pitti: yeah, I only just saw it
[16:42] <mat_t> pitti: don't know where it came from
[16:43] <pitti> mat_t: isn't that obvious? it's a stray pacman ghost!
[16:43] <mat_t> kwwii: ^ any ideas?
[16:43] <mat_t> pitti: aaaargh!!!
[16:43] <mac_v> mat_t: pitti: there is already a bug about it ;)
[16:43] <pitti> mat_t: quick, quick, eat the pill!
[16:43] <mat_t> aaaagggghhh&^*&?
[16:43]  * pitti sees mat_t attempt that Ubuntu level again
[16:44] <Amaranth> wakka wakka wakka
[16:45] <pitti> WTF? seb128, I just found out why the retracers are unhappy..
[16:45]  * mac_v thought rugby471 was aussie ;)
[16:46] <pitti> Package: gdb
[16:46] <pitti> Status: purge ok not-installed
[16:46] <rugby471> mac_v: hehe
[16:46] <pitti> Package gdb is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[16:46] <pitti> what happened to gdb??
[16:47] <chrisccoulson> my cat ate it ;)
[16:49] <pitti> ooh, we pinned it to jaunty, now I remember
[16:51] <mat_t> pitti: usplash fade-out looks great :)
[16:51] <pitti> mat_t: :-)
[16:51] <pitti> mat_t: I committed the progress bar disabling to bzr
[16:52] <pitti> now I just need to find some time to put in the new artwork
[16:52] <kwwii> hehe, everyone is having a fit about the ethernet icon
[16:52] <chrisccoulson> i haven't seen the new icon actually, i wonder what everyone is having a fit about
[16:52] <mat_t> pitti: cool\
[16:52] <kwwii> I guess that nm upstream changed the icons that they use and/or naming which caused this icon to be shown
[16:53] <chrisccoulson> urgh, now i see
[16:55] <pitti> curious how few people are on ethernet these days
[16:57] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm on ethernet, but i don't have the default icon theme
[17:00] <mvo> chrisccoulson: hm, I seem to be unable to reporduce the whie window bug, how odd
[17:00] <chrisccoulson> mvo - yeah, that's a bit strange. i wonder what we have different
[17:01] <mvo> chrisccoulson: well, I upload a new version with the revert for now
[17:02] <c_korn> mpt: hello. I was told to ask you whether the icons in the system menu are added (regarding bug 407621). the system menu is as editable as any other of the main menus in alacarte. in my opinion in therefore also requires icons because it is a dynamic object. also with the current identation it really looks as there are icons missing.
[17:02] <chrisccoulson> mvo - thanks. i'll have a play around on my machine later and see if there are any other settings which affect it
[17:04] <Amaranth> hehe, was looking for an old project of mine and discovered a blog post from kenvandine about him using :)
[17:04] <mpt> c_korn, by that standard, all the items in all OpenOffice.org menus should have icons, because you can add/remove them in "Tools" > "Customize". So that's not the standard of dynamic-ness (dynamicity?) we're using.
[17:06] <Amaranth> I do think the System menu should have icons again
[17:06] <Amaranth> I can't really think of a good reason why, it just seems right
[17:10] <mac_v> lool: hi... i didnt understand why the FFE was needed for UNR ,and the Humanity theme
[17:13] <c_korn> then what is special about the system menu so it does not get icons ? it is as editable as Applications and Places ?
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> i'm not bothered either way about the system menu having icons or not, but the places menu looks horribly broken. i'd actually prefer no icons at all in the places menu rather than the current half-implementation
[17:14] <chrisccoulson> even my non-tech-savvy girlfriend asked me why the menu was broken
[17:16] <c_korn> exactly. the places menu is another problem. and if no icons are present can the identation then be removed, too? it does not make sense like in normal application menus where there can be check boxes and so on
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> i quite like the whitespace in the system menu actually
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> i wish the indicator-session-applet was consistent and had the same whitespace though
[17:18] <c_korn> well then, be it as it may.
[17:32] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i just locally built gnome-python-extras here with the gda bindings built in to a separate package (python-gda), but the extra package ends up with a dependency on python and python2.5. that's not supposed to happen is it? (none of the other bindings do)
[17:33] <pitti> weird
[17:33] <pitti> does it b-dep on python2.5?
[17:33] <pitti> or perhaps the new package doesn't have a correct XB-Python-Version: field in debian/control or so?
[17:34] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it doesn't b-dep on that version, and XB-Python-Version is the same for all of the packages
[17:34] <chrisccoulson> "${python:Versions}"
[17:34] <kwwii> pitti: btw, after looking into it, it seems that nm is pointing to the wrong icon. I'll bug asac about it
[17:34] <chrisccoulson> debian/pyversions has "2.5-" in it
[17:35] <pitti> hm, no idea offhand, sorry
[17:35] <pitti> but I need to run out now
[17:35] <pitti> have a nice weekend everyone!
[17:35] <rickspencer3_> bye bye pitti
[17:36] <chrisccoulson> have a good weekend too pitti
[17:36] <asac> kwwii: hi. what icon?
[17:40] <rugby471> mvo: are you still here?
[17:43] <rugby471> mvo: actually don't worry
[17:55] <rugby471> mpt: I am trying to work on the bug 426257 but there is a bug that is blocking me from working on it (I think)
[17:56] <rugby471> mpt: are you running karmic?
[17:56] <mpt> rugby471, not this minute, it's on my other partition
[17:56] <rugby471> ah, I needed someone to test something
[17:56] <rugby471> anyway can test something for me?
[17:56] <rugby471> *anyone
[17:57] <rugby471> mpt: basically I don't think you can actually run two installs/removes at the same time
[17:57] <rugby471> mpt: this makes it impossible to test the bug
[17:58] <kenvandine> Amaranth, what project was that?
[17:58] <mpt> rugby471, you need to slow your Internet connection riiiiiight down? I'm sure there's some command line for that
[17:58] <rugby471> mpt: no it won't actually let me run two things at the same time
[17:59] <rugby471> it gives me an error (no two connections at the same time)
[17:59] <mpt> oh, that's not good
[17:59] <rugby471> hehe
[17:59] <rugby471> mvo is gone for dinner I think
[17:59] <mpt> report a boog
[17:59] <rugby471> yup
[17:59] <rugby471> I shall have to work on something else atm :-)
[17:59] <rugby471> mot: any requests
[18:04] <rugby471> mpt: any requests ^ ?
[18:06] <mpt> rugby471, the opposite case might be a bit easier, bug 431907
[18:07] <mpt> rugby471, and bug 426266 involves removing a string, so it shouldn't cause UI Freeze problems
[18:08] <mpt> (fixing it shouldn't, I mean)
[18:08] <rugby471> mpt: cool I shall have another go :-)
[18:08] <mpt> thanks rugby471 :-)
[18:10] <rugby471> mpt: just realised another bug, you cannot remove an app if it has an upgrade :-)
[18:11] <mpt> rugby471, what do you mean by "it has an upgrade"?
[18:11] <rugby471> mpt: ie. you can update the package
[18:14] <seb128> re
[18:14] <seb128> pitti, yeah, we want to list it where g-a-i was
[18:14] <seb128> and it's a gnome-menus change
[18:14] <seb128> did you figure for the retracers?
[18:14] <seb128> lool, ok cool
[18:19] <mpt> rugby471, that's a weird problem. Easily fixable?
[18:19] <rugby471> mpt: probably
[18:19] <rugby471> mpt: but I can't do it this evening (probably)
[18:19] <rugby471> mpt: about the chess dialog bug
[18:20] <rugby471> mpt: it will be easy to fix this bug and correct the text for the generic depends dialog at the same time, however does ui freeze mean that I cannot?
[18:20] <mpt> rugby471, ok, report that upgrade bug just in case you forget about it (or in case someone else wants to fix it)
[18:20] <rugby471> mpt: done :P
[18:21] <mpt> rugby471, as I said, I think that merely removing a string doesn't break the UI freeze. I'm not an expert on that, though.
[18:21] <rugby471> mpt: however changing one definitely breaks it?
[18:22] <rugby471> the current dependency dialog is this:
[18:22] <rugby471>         primary=_("%s depends on other software on the system. ") % self.appname
[18:22] <rugby471>         secondary = _("Uninstalling it means that the following "
[18:22] <rugby471>                       "additional software needs to be removed.")
[18:22] <mpt> Changing a string is a different matter, but I think mvo is going to apply for a freeze exception for new text for bug 430200 anyway.
[18:22] <rugby471> ah
[18:22] <rugby471> the current dependecy dialog doesn't conform to the spec
[18:22] <mpt> rugby471, that's a different alert, I think.
[18:23] <rugby471> no. 4 here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore#removing
[18:23] <mpt> All the images have disappeared from that page, halp
[18:23] <rugby471> oops
[18:24] <rugby471> mpt: are you sure?
[18:24] <mpt> Hm, no, I guess it's just a Chromium problem
[18:24] <mpt> anyway
[18:24] <rugby471> hehe
[18:24] <mpt> rugby471, as I understand it, the Chess bug is with the alert in step 2, not the alert in step 4.
[18:24] <rugby471> mpt:correct
[18:25] <rugby471> however the dialog in 4) is also incorrect
[18:25] <mpt> The code you just pasted is from (the non-spec-matching) step 4.
[18:25] <rugby471> mpt: correct
[18:25] <rugby471> mpt: it will be easier to fix them both at the same time
[18:25] <mpt> That's bug 426261, not bug 426266
[18:26] <mpt> As far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to do that. :-) But as I say, I'm not an expert on User Interface Freeze exceptions.
[18:26] <rugby471> mpt: you know what, I shall fix both things and ask mvo :-)
[18:26] <rugby471> mpt: he can merge what he likes :-)
[18:26] <mpt> Good plan.
[18:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - you there?
[18:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, sort of yes
[18:51] <seb128> about to go for dinner though
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> i've just built gnome-python-extras locally here with a depends on libgda4, to re-enable the pygda binding
[18:52] <seb128> ah nice
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> (and building it in to a new package - python-gda)
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> but it ends up with dependencies on python and python2.5
[18:53] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure why :-/
[18:53] <chrisccoulson> all of the other bindings just depend on python
[18:53] <seb128> is there a .so which build with libpython2.5?
[18:53] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - possibly. it has a dependency on libpython2.5 too
[18:54] <seb128> I'm not sure what is going on without looking into details
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> the so does link against libpython2.5
[18:56] <rugby471> mpt: quick q before I go
[18:57] <rugby471> mpt: in the dependencies dialog, do we always want the vertical scrollbar showing like in the image?
[18:57] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks, i'll take a look at this a bit more later
[18:57] <rugby471> showing > showing,
[18:58] <mpt> rugby471, I think so, yes. ("Unless otherwise specified, a package list view should always have a vertical scrollbar.")
[18:59] <rugby471> mpt: cool