[11:19] <lool> ogra: I just received my reminder to prepare for the release meeting
[11:19] <lool> ogra: So would you mind preparing the report?   :-)
[11:20] <lool> I can proofread it if you like
[11:20] <ogra> if i have found the d-i issue :)
[11:20] <ogra> i dont want to pause that work atm
[11:21] <lool> ogra: I need to know if you're writing it or not though
[11:21] <ogra> sure i do
[11:22] <ogra> i still have last weeks open
[11:22] <ogra> will just carry over and adjust
[11:22] <lool> Ok
[12:49] <lool> asac: Hey
[12:49] <lool> asac: How did things go with gnome-web-photo?
[12:50] <asac> slow progress 
[12:50] <lool> asac: If it looks like it will take a bit more time, perhaps we should defer to karmic+1
[12:50] <asac> can we get that in karmic+1
[12:50] <asac> hehe
[12:50] <asac> yeah
[12:50] <lool> asac: Since we're into UI freeze etc.
[12:50] <lool> asac: Alternatively if you tell me you're sure you'll manage to fix it we could approve it to main and target the bug at beta
[12:50] <asac> its directly linking into libxul.so i can tell that on the MIR
[12:51] <lool> It's just that I think we should decide now whether we take it or not
[12:51] <asac> lool: no i cannot guarantee that i will fix it. its fixable
[12:51] <lool> asac: Ok so let's defer to karmic+`
[12:51] <asac> but i have lots of things to do
[12:51] <lool> +1
[12:51] <lool> asac: That's fine by me
[12:52] <lool> njpatel: You around?
[12:52] <wutzara_netbook> Will the Ubuntu moblin remix get an official release?
[12:52] <lool> njpatel: I'd love to have a quick chat with you on Humanity/theming
[12:52] <lool> wutzara_netbook: Official?  No
[12:52] <lool> wutzara_netbook: We're already having a hard time getting it to build
[12:53] <wutzara_netbook> lool: Why then porting the packages?
[12:53] <lool> wutzara_netbook: Why then what?
[12:53] <lool> wutzara_netbook: Porting which packages?
[12:53] <njpatel> lool: got a few minutes, whats up?
[12:54] <lool> njpatel: Can I give you a quick phone call?
[12:54] <wutzara_netbook> lool: in Launchpad are many packages to build a moblin Interface in Ubuntu - but without a official release why package these library's?
[12:55] <lool> Hold on
[12:55] <lool> wutzara_netbook: Well we need to start somewhere
[12:56] <wutzara_netbook> lool: ok so will the moblin remix get finetuning? There are some obscure behaviour in the interface. Like the window in the upper left corner
[12:57] <ogra> lool, i assume bug 425547 is still in progress ? 
[12:58] <ogra> StevenK, lool, should bug 430277 be on the release team report ?
[13:00] <StevenK> ogra: Nah, lool had a plan
[13:00] <ogra> ok
[13:00] <ogra> plans are always good :)
[13:00]  * StevenK goes back to his holidays
[13:05] <lool> wutzara_netbook: Sorry I'm on the phone two secs
[13:06] <lool> wutzara_netbook: So there are two angles to this
[13:06] <lool> wutzara_netbook: One is the Ubuntu one and the other is the Canonical one
[13:07] <lool> wutzara_netbook: Other Canonical employees and myself are tasked with packaging Moblin bits and assembling a basic image in Ubuntu
[13:07] <lool> Even if these were not officially released upstream
[13:07] <lool> This started in a PPA a while ago and is being merged in karmic (see the bug ogra mentionned)
[13:07] <lool> We can't merge everything we did in karmic, like UI changes or changes to common bits such as GNOME bits
[13:07] <njpatel> lool: https://edge.launchpad.net/~canonical-ux
[13:08] <lool> wutzara_netbook: But we can merge as much as possible and hope that it's useful
[13:08] <wutzara_netbook> yes i understand that. Then i can build a Moblin Interface in Karmic?
[13:08] <lool> wutzara_netbook: Over time, things will improve but right now they are messy; also Canonical is not supporting the Ubuntu Moblin Remix officially; it's some developer demo if you like
[13:09] <lool> wutzara_netbook: You can do what you want!
[13:09] <lool> njpatel: thanks!
[13:09] <lool> StevenK: So we're dropping Humanity for karmic; might readd in karmic+1
[13:09] <lool> njpatel: BTW consider UDS sponsorships for Humanity folks if you think that's useful for UNR in karmic+1
[13:09] <njpatel> lool: sure, will do
[13:10] <lool> ogra: bug 425547 > yes still in progress
[13:10] <wutzara_netbook> lool, thanks for that answer. So its maybe possible to get in the future a moblin remix but it isnt planned
[13:10] <lool> ogra: Concerning the icon theming bugs, we will revert to Human
[13:10] <ogra> lool, ok, but i guess that doesnt need mentioning in the report 
[13:10] <lool> ogra: That should certainly be a highlight in the meeting that we will rollback from humanity-icon-theme to human-icon-theme
[13:10] <ogra> ok
[13:11] <lool> It's a UI change and quite a visible one so I think it's worth a high level note, perhaps in the highlights along the report's URL
[13:11] <lool> wutzara_netbook: What are you asking about?
[13:11] <lool> wutzara_netbook: We're building a daily image from karmic+ppa; currently it's failing to build due to a transition
[13:12] <lool> We're working on that issue but it's non-trivial
[13:12] <lool> We should solve it in the next week we hope
[13:13] <wutzara_netbook> lool, there is still no official release for moblin remix. My problem is that i use a Celeron M processor on my netbook. So my last hope is that i can get the moblin interface (which is quite attractive) with ubuntu which dont need SSSE3
[13:14] <ogra> lool, can you milestone bug 430277 and add info about the plan ? 
[13:16] <lool> wutzara_netbook: Ok so we are providing images but they will not be as high quality as the other Ubuntu ones; make your choice beween ubuntu moblin remix, the UNR image, other Ubuntu images, or the upstream Moblin image
[13:16] <lool> ogra: Yes was about to do that
[13:17] <ogra> thanks
[13:18] <wutzara_netbook> lool, yes i use for my productive netbook the UNR. But if moblin will be useable i will switch to moblin as soon as i can. upstream Moblin dont work because of the CPU.
[13:19] <lool> wutzara_netbook: So wait some time and reevaluate
[13:19] <lool> wutzara_netbook: But moblin remix wont be as nice as UNR
[13:22] <wutzara_netbook> lool, yes i like the UNR Interface - but the integration of social web isn't as good as moblin. One sneak of peak and i see my tasks and my appointments. Perfect Twitter integration and so on. Maybe this is the only advantage ;)
[13:22] <lool> njpatel: ^ he says UNR sucks
[13:23] <lool> njpatel: I'd cut his tongue or something
[13:23] <wutzara_netbook> roooofl
[13:23] <wutzara_netbook> no no lool - i like UNR i swear
[13:23] <njpatel> lool: LOL, point him to moblin remix...he'll soon be back :)
[13:24] <wutzara_netbook> :) i AM be back form that
[13:24] <njpatel> wutzara_netbook: social integration is on the radar, hopefully for 9.10
[13:24] <njpatel> wutzara_netbook: er, 10.04
[13:24] <njpatel> wutzara_netbook: heh, good to hear :)
[13:25] <lool> What's that social thing?
[13:25] <lool> It's like IRC?
[13:25] <wutzara_netbook> Twitter?
[13:25] <wutzara_netbook> Feeds?
[13:25] <lool> Bah I have email already
[13:26]  * ogra has a mobile phone !
[13:26] <wutzara_netbook> thats one point that i missing. Maybe it is possible that a deamon search for new mails and show them on the UNR
[13:26] <wutzara_netbook> without to start evolution
[15:40] <lool> davidbarth: ogra updated the releasestatus page
[15:40] <lool> davidbarth: Anything specific you want to raise for DX?
[16:27] <DBO> plars, you around? :)
[16:42] <plars> DBO: yes
[16:43] <DBO> I am on Neil Patels team (actually interning on his team) and am looking to see if we cant help apport get some extra info for us out of some related crashes
[16:43] <DBO> we are getting lots of crashes inside of clutter-glx lately, this is most likely a driver bug, however the bug reports so far as I can see do not contain any info about the video card/driver/mesa/xorg version
[16:44] <DBO> making it rather hard to figure out what render path inside of mesa/xorg/some random driver, actually contains the bug :(
[16:44] <DBO> i understand you either can help, or can point me at a person who can :)
[16:45] <plars> DBO: ah, I saw a comment about that in a bug today
[16:45] <DBO> that was me
[16:45] <plars> DBO: right
[16:46] <plars> DBO: so... best thing I can suggest is that we start asking for that information on those bugs
[16:46] <plars> DBO: unfortunately, I haven't been able to reproduce any of them myself
[16:46] <DBO> is there any way to help get this information in the future automatically
[16:46] <DBO> I suspect upon release we are going to get floods of these things
[16:46] <plars> DBO: I take it that it's impossible to proceed without that information?
[16:46] <DBO> pretty much
[16:47] <DBO> there are just too many code paths to explore
[16:47] <plars> DBO: yes
[16:47] <plars> DBO: I'll look at that, though it may not be possible this cycle, will have to see
[16:47] <DBO> what about just getting a xorg log in there?
[16:48] <plars> DBO: basically it would involve writing an apport hook for netbook-launcher (where the problems are usually showing up) to grab that information
[16:48] <DBO> oh so the hooks go into netbook-launcher?
[16:48] <DBO> where can I get documentation on adding those hooks, I can pound that stuff out
[16:48] <plars> DBO: so... wishlist time: for a bug against netbook-launcher, what information would be useful to have for debugging?
[16:48] <plars> DBO: I can write the hook if you want, or you can, matters not to me
[16:49] <plars> DBO: I've been wanting to talk to you and Neil for a while now when we all have some free time, to get these kind of hook written for all of the UNR things
[16:49] <DBO> useful information, a Xorg log, kernel log, that would actually about cover it
[16:49] <DBO> since the xorg log would contain almost all the info we need
[16:49] <plars> DBO: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport#Per-package%20Apport%20Hooks
[16:50] <DBO> sweet, so we can hook this without changing apport? (sorry, I know nothing of how apport works yet)
[16:50] <plars> DBO: I know that launcher spits out some other data if you run it from console, is there anyway to capture that if you didn't run it from console?
[16:50] <plars> DBO: yep, it just goes in with the netbook-launcher package
[16:50] <plars> DBO: assuming it's not breaking some Freeze, then it's pretty straightforward
[16:51] <plars> DBO: and the hooks are pretty simple to write
[16:51] <DBO> I dont think I have had to break any freezes yet personally
[16:51] <DBO> everybody gets 1, right? :P
[16:52] <whitetiger00> hi all
[16:53] <plars> DBO: of course, for the bugs that are already out there, we need to just ask on the bug for the submitter to attach the xorg log after reproducing
[16:53] <whitetiger00> Can someone suggest a good PCMCIA wireless card that will work fairly well, out of the box, with 9.04???
[16:53] <plars> DBO: oh, for launcher, what about .xsession-errors? anything useful there?
[16:53] <DBO> plars, while I dont disagree, my experience is that most of those pleas will go unanswered
[16:54] <plars> DBO: they may, and it would be great if you can proceed without the information.
[16:54] <lool> plars: Let's just call the source_xorg hook in the netbook-launcher one
[16:54] <lool> Or add a symlink
[16:54] <DBO> plars, I doubt anything will end up there thats not in the xorg logs, but it wont hurt
[16:54] <plars> DBO: but! - if the bug is impacting enough people, then chances are that someone will see it when they try to submit the bug, and attach the log even if it isn't the original submitter
[16:54] <DBO> yes I know, I will go through each of the bugs asking for it
[16:55] <DBO> we'll see if anyone bites :)
[16:55] <lool> DBO: Check /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/source_xorg.py does it include what you want?
[16:55] <DBO> lool, if that even just grabs a xorg log it gets what I want
[16:55] <plars> lool: that would probably suffice, but I was wondering from DBO if there was any way to get the stdout/stderr output from netbook-launcher.  I've seen njpatel ask for that on some bugs in the past
[16:55] <DBO> mmm yeah that does get what I want
[16:55] <lool> It grabs all of them
[16:56] <DBO> plars, I need to convert the way unr does logging
[16:56] <lool> plars: haha checkout the compiz hook
[16:56] <DBO> there is too much usage of g_print'ish commands
[16:56] <lool> it copy-pasted the xorg one and grabs .xsession-errors
[16:59] <lool> I find it sad that so many hooks dup the xorg log bit
[17:16] <lool> plars: You wanted to write that hook?  Do you mind if I do?
[17:17] <ogra> lool, you skip a call to do more work ?
[17:17] <mac_v> lool: hi... i didnt understand why the FFE was needed for UNR ,and the Humanity theme... if you dont want the greyscale icons we could just revert them! i dont want to cause unnecessary confusion , Daniel has spent several days to get the greyscale icons conceptualized
[17:17] <plars> lool: sounds like it's just going to be a cut and paste of the xorg or compiz one!
[17:17]  * ogra shakes head
[17:17] <lool> plars: hehe then dont :)
[17:18] <plars> lool: what were you thinking of doing instead?
[17:18] <lool> plars: I have something nicer
[17:18] <lool> plars: http://paste.ubuntu.com/273588/
[17:18] <plars> lool: great, have at it then! :)
[17:18] <lool> mac_v: Ah
[17:18] <lool> mac_v: I'm glad you ping me
[17:18] <plars> lool: much nicer
[17:18] <lool> mac_v: I intended to drop Humanity fron UNR
[17:18] <mac_v> why so?
[17:19] <mac_v> over my comment! :(
[17:19] <lool> mac_v: I have a list of issues for which it's getting late for fixing
[17:19] <lool> mac_v: but perhaps we can sort them out
[17:19] <lool> mac_v: Let me forward them to you; emaiL?
[17:19] <mac_v> lool: was this decision before my comment or after?
[17:19] <lool> mac_v: It was about 8 hours ago
[17:20] <mac_v> lool: aw! ..sure you can send the problems by mail
[17:20] <lool> mac_v: But I was not getting feedback on the humanity issues; now that you popup perhaps we can still fix that?  :)
[17:20] <lool> mac_v: which address?
[17:20] <mac_v> lool: yup , sure
[17:20] <mac_v> oh my , lp has the id
[17:20] <lool> ah just got your ping on #ubuntu-desktop
[17:21] <lool> Hmm ok
[17:21] <mac_v> yeah  , i realized that was in the wrong room ;)
[17:21] <lool> mac_v: sent
[17:22] <lool> mac_v: So if we really want to do that, we need to test all notification-area icons in the default UNR image
[17:22] <lool> mac_v: I'm sorry, it's getting a tad late for me to discuss this and I'm a bit tired; do you mind if we resume on Monday?
[17:22] <lool> or you can email me
[17:22] <mac_v> lool: sure no probs... :)
[17:30] <lool> -rw-r--r-- root/root       182 2009-09-18 18:25 ./usr/share/apport/package-hooks/source_netbook-launcher.py
[17:30] <lool> DBO: plars: ^
[17:30] <lool> uploaded
[17:31] <DBO> oh man
[17:31] <DBO> love you
[17:32] <lool> DBO: Let me know if you want that for other source packages
[17:32] <lool> e.g. clutk or whatever
[19:21] <braindump03> Hey, is there already a working Ubuntu MID build for the Nokia N810?
[23:11] <robbiew> StevenK...around?