[08:03] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: ping!
[08:04] <DanRabbit1> mac_v: PONG!
[18:17] <tgpraveen> is empathy supported by messaging indicator in karmic now?
[18:17] <tgpraveen> does messaging indicator support thunderbird or will it support by final release?
[18:42] <SiDi> DanRabbit: i noticed some of the icons i complained about werent in elementary but in gnome / probably in hicolor too x_x
[18:43] <SiDi> I feel stupid now
[18:43] <DanRabbit> elementary inherits gnome and hicolor ;)
[18:43] <SiDi> i did remove the inherit lines in my version while i was working on icons :P
[18:43] <SiDi> so apparently it inherits gnome by default if no inherit is specified
[18:43] <DanRabbit> haha
[18:44] <SiDi> Anyway the list is in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Karmic
[18:44] <SiDi> it's not very argumented so if you wanna know why we dont like an icon feel free to ping me and ill attempt to explain :p
[19:47] <MDC1> mac_v, got any bug for me?
[19:52] <MDC1> anyone know why the side pane in eog is disabled?
[19:52] <DanRabbit> I was wondering that myself this morning ;)
[19:52] <DanRabbit> SiDi: are you using bzr?
[19:53] <MDC1> DanRabbit, seems to be the same in jaunty...
[19:53] <DanRabbit> MDC1: yea, I'm on jaunty ;)
[19:53] <MDC1> ok, then its the same in karmic ;-)
[20:05] <mac_v> MDC1 the bug patrol ;p
[20:05] <MDC1> hehe.. nothing to do atm...
[20:06] <MDC1> (and DBO, i'm not in the mood for packaging yet ;-) .. maybe later if coding does end up well)
[20:06] <MDC1> *dosn't
[20:06] <MDC1> *doesn't - (*mummmel* maybe i shouldn't code... )
[20:07] <mac_v> MDC1: do one thing package DBO's docky and setup a ppa ;) 
[20:07] <MDC1> doh!
[20:08] <DanRabbit> hehe
[20:08] <MDC1> I was more thinking of https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=322243 - but only if it involves the GtkInforBar ..
[20:08] <ubot4> Gnome bug 322243 in image viewer "eog doesn't ask whether to save changes" [Normal,Assigned] 
[20:09] <MDC1> or if someone could specify what apps should have an export to pdf option...
[20:09] <MDC1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/164298
[20:09] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 164298 in ubuntu "Print to file should say "Export to PDF" instead of "Print to PDF"" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
[20:11] <MDC1> DanRabbit, about your close button in nautilus; totem also has one, and so does firefox for history, bookmarks and search - so i don't know why you'd like that removed because it is different .... (?)
[20:11] <DanRabbit> ah, okay
[20:11] <DanRabbit> I accept defeat :)
[20:11] <DanRabbit> I just don't like it. it looks funny.
[20:12] <MDC1> hehe.. maybe a better icon *hint* ;-)
[20:13] <DanRabbit> Yea, that could be arranged
[20:13] <DanRabbit> Any ideas?
[20:13] <MDC1> nope
[20:13] <MDC1> i'm just a simple user
[20:14] <MDC1> :-D
[20:14] <MDC1> hmm.. or how would it a square orange not so bold version look like?
[20:14] <mac_v> MDC1: what icon?>
[20:14] <mac_v> screenshot pls :)
[20:14] <MDC1> close side pane icon
[20:15] <DanRabbit> I don't know
[20:15] <MDC1> open nautilus and enable the sidepane
[20:15] <mac_v> oh
[20:15] <DanRabbit> I'm most unhappy with the placement, rather than just the icon itself
[20:15] <DanRabbit> it looks silly
[20:15] <DanRabbit> like they didn't know where to put it
[20:16] <MDC1> well.. the right corner seems quite standard to me..
[20:16] <MDC1> i think it would look strange in the center.. ;)
[20:17] <MDC1> mac_v, did you find any bug or is karmic bug free ;-)
[20:17] <DanRabbit> I don't know. I just don't like it. it just bugs me
[20:17]  * SiDi uses thunar \o/
[20:18] <DanRabbit> It's okay I can just theme it to dissappear ;)
[20:18]  * mac_v throws SiDi out ;p
[20:18]  * SiDi comes back and pets an XFCE mouse
[20:18] <DanRabbit> SiDi: MDC1 is going to make a super kickass nautilus and then you will switch
[20:18] <DanRabbit> :D
[20:18] <SiDi> DanRabbit: there's little chance :p
[20:18] <DanRabbit> SiDi: do you use elementary BZR or just the last release (2.1) ?
[20:18] <mac_v> MDC1: i havent checked .. let me find something 
[20:18] <SiDi> but they're free to fork thunar's GUI, their users will thank them for that :D
[20:18] <SiDi> DanRabbit: i dont use bzr... i didnt even know it was on bzr :x
[20:19] <DanRabbit> yea try BZR
[20:19] <SiDi> okey
[20:19] <DanRabbit> there are a lot of fixes
[20:19] <SiDi> might explain why some icons were looking OLD :P
[20:19] <SiDi> Whats the bzr please ?
[20:19] <DanRabbit> bzr branch lp:elementary icons ~/.icons/elementarybzr
[20:19] <DanRabbit> just use that ;)
[20:19] <MDC1> SiDi, does thunar have a toolbar editor?
[20:20] <SiDi> MDC1: what for ?
[20:20] <MDC1> DanRabbit, don't promise to much ;-)
[20:20] <mac_v> lol
[20:20] <DanRabbit> MDC1: I have faith ;)
[20:20] <MDC1> SiDi, hmm.. every one is happy with the toolbar as is?
[20:21] <MDC1> DanRabbit, you'll need it
[20:21] <DanRabbit> MDC1: between DBO and Myself, we'll provide sufficient motivation for you
[20:21] <DanRabbit> :D
[20:21] <SiDi> MDC1: i dont think anyone ever complained about it
[20:21] <SiDi> apart from me, but it wasnt about what was inside it, more about what you could do with the buttons
[20:21]  * SiDi wants middle click = new window
[20:21] <mac_v> MDC1: thunar is simple as is... nothing to edit ;)
[20:21] <SiDi> mac_v: there's nothing to change when its working so fine :D
[20:22] <mac_v> yeah that too ;)
[20:22] <MDC1> point your motivation to the poor nautilus devs i'll flood with hackish code...
[20:23] <DanRabbit> hehe
[20:23] <DanRabbit> There is like some rule
[20:24] <DanRabbit> that once you become on upstream dev
[20:24] <DanRabbit> unless you work on something cool like Do
[20:24] <MDC1> SiDi, yeah.. i see it's the perfect filemanager - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12708707/Screenshot-Desktop%20-%20File%20Manager.png (hehe)
[20:24] <DanRabbit> you just die
[20:24] <mac_v> MDC1: isnt this a dup? Bug #432559
[20:24] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 432559 in nautilus "There is not an obvious way to close the nautilus search " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432559
[20:24] <SiDi> MDC1: not thunar's fault if the icon theme devs forget some fixed sized icons =D
[20:26] <SiDi> http://imagebin.ca/img/7L7mfS.png
[20:27] <MDC1> SiDi, except for the left aligned text under the icon it looks quite nice
[20:27] <mac_v> SiDi: how the hell do you read with the transparencies!
[20:27] <DanRabbit> What side icons does the sidebar use SiDi?
[20:27] <DanRabbit> they look like hell
[20:28] <mac_v> SiDi: oh the terminal is transparent!
[20:29] <MDC1> mac_v, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=332078
[20:29] <ubot4> Gnome bug 332078 in File Search Interface "Search button should be a toggle button" [Minor,New] 
[20:29] <MDC1> maybe a dup - just different solutions to the same problem
[20:30] <mac_v> meh , then its a dup , since only one solution is needed ;p
[20:31] <MDC1> mac_v, yep - but which one?
[20:31] <mac_v> i'll leave that to walton \o/
[20:31] <MDC1> yep
[20:31] <MDC1> maybe i should look in to the search problem..
[20:31]  * MDC1 goes hacking...
[20:32] <mac_v> MDC1: what where you asking about the print to file?
[20:32] <MDC1> what apps should have the option
[20:32] <MDC1> eg a menuitem under File
[20:33] <mac_v> firefox , 
[20:34] <DanRabbit> MDC1: You should do a search entry field for the toolbar ;)
[20:34] <SiDi> DanRabbit: is there a changelog since the 2.1 release ?
[20:34] <DanRabbit> no, I have to go back and see what I've done
[20:35] <DanRabbit> I've almost completely redone mimes
[20:35] <DanRabbit> smaller file size
[20:35] <MDC1> DanRabbit, yep - i'd like to get in it in as is first and maybe add a plugin system
[20:35] <DanRabbit> merged a lot of icons in since Humanity, including things like the users icons
[20:35] <mac_v> MDC1: i think its all handled buy CUPS , if we fix it that should do it
[20:35] <DanRabbit> It's a HUGE list
[20:35] <MDC1> mac_v, nope it's not
[20:35] <DanRabbit> more icons in more sizes
[20:36] <MDC1> mac_v, it's the gtk printing system
[20:36] <DanRabbit> SiDi: your problems with changing terminal icons are fixed ;)
[20:36] <SiDi> DanRabbit: okey :P
[20:36] <MDC1> (mac_v, if i'm not completly off)
[20:36] <SiDi> DanRabbit: would you also consider icon requests ?
[20:36] <mac_v> MDC1: then that needs fixing ;)
[20:36] <DanRabbit> yea
[20:36] <SiDi> the jockey icons for instance use a custom package shape which is just not sexy
[20:36] <DanRabbit> no problem
[20:36] <DanRabbit> it's best to file a bug
[20:36] <SiDi> not to mention the jockey enabled / disabled icons have always been not-sexy
[20:36] <DanRabbit> but you could add it to your wii
[20:36] <SiDi> i'll do it right now
[20:36] <DanRabbit> wiki*
[20:37] <MDC1> mac_v, no - it's not a problem with it, gtk printing adds the framework to let you print and to print to file. What I thought we'd like was a File -> Export as PDF option
[20:38] <mac_v> MDC1: ah! that would need to be fixed in several apps! , rather fixing gtk printing is easier
[20:39] <mac_v> which diaglue it this>
[20:39] <mac_v> oops!
[20:39] <MDC1> mac_v, how would fixing the dialog add an option to File menu?
[20:39] <mac_v> why add the option to the menu?
[20:41] <MDC1> isn't that what we want because "I want to get this document as a PDF file - i'll head over to the print option" isn't obvious?
[20:41] <mac_v> MDC1: if we fix this we are done , http://imagebin.ca/view/SehnrwB.html
[20:42] <MDC1> fix to what?
[20:42] <mac_v> MDC1: just change the "print to file" to "export to"
[20:42] <mac_v> "Export to..."
[20:43] <mac_v> rather  "Export as..."
[20:43] <MDC1> hmmm... the "Export to..."-printer in the printer list?
[20:44] <mac_v> yeah that whole column is messed up! argh!
[20:44] <SiDi> DanRabbit: i'll file bugs for those that dont really concern xubuntu specifically
[20:44] <DanRabbit> SiDi: it's okay to file bugs for all
[20:44] <DanRabbit> a bug is a bug ;)
[20:45] <SiDi> DanRabbit: i shall not file a bug asking to replace the start-here by a xubuntu logo ? :D
[20:45] <mac_v> MDC1: ideally ... move the option away from the table/column and move it to the location below as a check box
[20:45] <MDC1> mac_v, i don't think we accomplished anything if we just change the name in list. I think the problem is that finding exporting to PDF is hard to find because it hides in the print part of the program and not in the save / export dialog
[20:45] <DanRabbit> oh lol
[20:45] <DanRabbit> well
[20:45] <DanRabbit> :D
[20:46] <MDC1> mac_v, it's still the _print_ dialog we're talking about..
[20:47] <mac_v> MDC1: yup.. bug fixing as you say needs to be done in *several* apps , which atm is not feasible or ideal
[20:47] <mac_v> but*
[20:48] <MDC1> mac_v, Having a print to pdf file embedded in all apps that uses gtk printing infrastructure is great but and could be a backup for lazy programmers. But I do think it should be an option in the menu.. prefferrable "Export..." and then pick the format "pdf, ps, svg" (today) and maybe odt, png whatever in the future..
[20:48] <mac_v> if we remove that option it messes up *all* the apps which use print
[20:49] <MDC1> mac_v, why not fix the apps? it's not that every app needs an export option - just the ones it makes sense to have one..
[20:49] <SiDi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/elementaryicons/+bug/433223 DanRabbit 
[20:49] <mac_v> MDC1: i totally agree regarding that , :)
[20:49] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 433223 in elementaryicons "Please make some icons for jockey" [Undecided,New] 
[20:49] <mac_v> MDC1: but the devs have to agree :)
[20:49] <MDC1> if you really really really need to export from eg the calculator you could use the print (not that it exists, but i think you get the point ;-) )
[20:50] <MDC1> mac_v, that's always a problem
[20:50] <DanRabbit> SiDi: is there a deb for IconLibrary??
[20:50] <SiDi> DanRabbit: i dont think there is
[20:50] <SiDi> and it needs some hacking, too
[20:50] <DanRabbit> OMG, I want it
[20:50] <SiDi> its lp:icon-library
[20:50] <SiDi> it definately needs column sorting...
[20:51] <MDC1> we already have a Open, Save, Save As, recent files, Print, Exit as "standard" in the File menu. Adding Export... just fits perfectly ;-)
[20:51] <mac_v> MDC1: that bug you have shown is a papercut , asking for a simple solution... ideally i would invalidate that bug and would like to do it as you mention...  but we need a separate bug for that :)
[20:52] <MDC1> mac_v, so we agreed at last? :-D
[20:53] <mac_v> MDC1: i wanted to invalidate it the moment i saw it![months ago]... but i havent coufirmed or assigned it ;)
[20:53] <mac_v> confirmed*
[20:53] <MDC1> here's your chance!
[20:53] <mac_v> MDC1: i dont invalidate other papercutter's bug ;)
[20:54] <mac_v> if i did that  , i would have to go on a rampage
[20:54] <MDC1> mac_v, haha!
[20:55] <DanRabbit> SiDi: I wonder why it only shows 3 sizes :p
[20:55] <mac_v> MDC1: so.. for now... could you just fix that dialogue  :)
[20:55] <MDC1> mac_v, pick an app (besides firefox) that needs a export option and i'll create a patch
[20:55] <MDC1> mac_v, nope :-)
[20:55] <mac_v> ;p
[20:56] <SiDi> DanRabbit: i dont know either
[20:56] <mac_v> MDC1: EOG... the list is too big... almost every app , i'm feeling sleepy now :(
[20:56] <MDC1> mac_v, seriously, i don't think the gtk devs will ever do the change..
[20:56] <DanRabbit> SiDi: it looks like it's 16px, 24px and 32px
[20:56] <MDC1> mac_v, just one is enough for now
[20:56] <SiDi> yeh
[20:56] <SiDi> the most common ratios, DanRabbit 
[20:56] <MDC1> mac_v, should i go for eog?
[20:57] <mac_v> why not :)
[20:57] <MDC1> eog it is
[20:57] <DanRabbit> SiDi: arguably. 48px is pretty common as well.
[20:57] <MDC1> mac_v, maybe you should get some sleep then ;-)
[20:57] <DanRabbit> hehe, I'm missing a lot of 32px icons...
[20:58] <SiDi> DanRabbit: yes but it takes more room in the gui ? :P
[20:58] <SiDi> ask icon-library's author ^^ i dont know why its like that
[20:58] <DanRabbit> Yea, they should put all available sizes
[20:58] <mac_v> SiDi: icon library is messed up..
[20:59] <DanRabbit> elementary has up to 64px in some cases
[20:59] <mac_v> isnt always right
[20:59] <SiDi> mac_v: with some few more stuff i think it could be interesting
[20:59] <SiDi> but yeh i noticed it forgets icons, adds some, etc
[20:59] <mac_v> SiDi: yeah , i spoke to the author , he intends to clean it up soon :)
[20:59] <SiDi> oh great
[20:59] <DanRabbit> yay
[21:00] <DanRabbit> wow, there's a lot of icons I didn't even know existed..
[21:00] <mac_v> yeah
[21:00] <SiDi> :p
[21:01] <DanRabbit> haha, the terminal icons are really bad, huh?
[21:02] <SiDi> some are
[21:02] <DanRabbit> Damnit, SiDi
[21:03] <DanRabbit> you make my icons look like crap
[21:03] <DanRabbit> :D
[21:03] <SiDi> the 'Terminal' icon isnt beautiful
[21:03] <SiDi> and the REAL name of xfce4-terminal is Terminal :P
[21:03] <SiDi> but the name was stolen from terminal.app in Ubuntu
[21:03] <DanRabbit> 48px icon is really nice
[21:03] <DanRabbit> others are not so nce.
[21:03] <SiDi> lp 433238
[21:03] <DanRabbit> nice*
[21:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 433238 in elementaryicons "Please make a mail-mark-junk icon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433238
[21:04] <SiDi> elementarybzr/apps/48/utilities-terminal.svg ?
[21:04] <DanRabbit> yea
[21:05] <SiDi> i'd like something like breathe
[21:05] <SiDi> but without the glossy side
[21:05] <DanRabbit> LOL, i like how it uses the DVD -R icon for no reason for gnome-cd
[21:05] <SiDi> i dont like terminal icons with an HUGE > or $
[21:05] <DanRabbit> :/
[21:05] <SiDi> DanRabbit: yeh... 
[21:05] <SiDi> ooh the ACTUAL icon doesnt have the DVD label
[21:05] <DanRabbit> There is a 48px gnome-cd icon supplied
[21:05] <DanRabbit> no
[21:05] <DanRabbit> lol
[21:05] <SiDi> see, my list contains some weirdness due to icon library
[21:06] <SiDi> ...
[21:06] <DanRabbit> yea
[21:06] <SiDi> i'm so sorry :X
[21:06] <DanRabbit> :D
[21:06] <DanRabbit> it's all good
[21:06] <SiDi> Well, i feel stupid, cause most of the icons i whined about were actually allright
[21:06] <DanRabbit> I thought you had inserted a DVD
[21:06] <DanRabbit> and then saw that and assumed there were no other icons ;)
[21:06] <SiDi> how does openofficeorg3-draw render for you ?
[21:07] <DanRabbit> I don't know, hold on
[21:07] <DanRabbit> it's the standard blue orb with the paintbrush
[21:07] <DanRabbit> looks clean, but not elementary style :0
[21:08] <SiDi> mine looks really bad and pixelated
[21:08] <SiDi> except at 48x48
[21:08] <DanRabbit> hmm
[21:08] <DanRabbit> weird
[21:08] <DanRabbit> I've got all sizes
[21:08] <DanRabbit> :/
[21:08] <DanRabbit> why use Draw
[21:08] <DanRabbit> use inkscape
[21:08] <DanRabbit> much better
[21:08] <SiDi> and really, you should either make all the ooo icons or not make any :P
[21:08] <DanRabbit> ooo is a piece of poop
[21:08] <SiDi> i use inkscape, lol
[21:09] <DanRabbit> I just did the standard ones for Ubuntu
[21:09] <SiDi> but draw math and printeradmin do have weird icons
[21:09] <DanRabbit> present, calc, and writer
[21:09] <SiDi> ooo-template how does it look like compared to ooo-math ?
[21:10] <DanRabbit> let me check
[21:10] <SiDi> http://img38.imageshack.us/i/capture40.png/
[21:10] <DanRabbit> OH
[21:10] <DanRabbit> you have those icons
[21:10] <DanRabbit> I have the tango icons ;)
[21:10] <DanRabbit> i guess we're using a different package.
[21:11] <SiDi> i got the gnome icons as fallback as far as i know
[21:12] <SiDi> i use the bzr branch.. :X
[21:13] <DanRabbit> SiDi: It's showing up weird in Icon Library
[21:13] <DanRabbit> but it shows up okay in reality
[21:15] <SiDi> DanRabbit: i do get the standard icons if i use notify-osd -i
[21:15] <SiDi> i'd prefer some elementary like icons
[21:15] <DanRabbit> hmm
[21:15] <DanRabbit> I think it's a symlink error
[21:15] <DanRabbit> I don't particularly endorse OOO....
[21:15] <DanRabbit> but we'll see what happens
[21:16] <DanRabbit> file a bug, and if I have some spare time, I'll think about it.
[21:20] <SiDi> (we dont use ooo in xubuntu so its not a big issue for us, but its just a shame to have those oldish icons showing up)
[21:21] <MDC1> mac_v, still awake?
[21:21]  * SiDi kicks mac_v 's dead body
[21:21] <SiDi> nope, he's not :/
[21:22] <MDC1> good for him
[21:22] <SiDi> He went out of mem, he bsod'd
[21:22] <MDC1> :-)
[21:22] <DanRabbit> lol
[21:23] <SiDi> its because he couldnt stop storing in his ram all the stupid things i write..
[21:23]  * DanRabbit is going to eat lunch and then come back and fix some of those icons
[21:24]  * MDC1 has just found out the nautilus search is a broken piece of shit...
[21:28] <SiDi> MDC1: xubuntu.com/get
[21:29] <MDC1> SiDi, no
[21:30] <SiDi> xubuntu.org/get then ?
[21:31] <MDC1> hehe
[21:55] <SiDi> DanRabbit: what do you have in 32 bits for video-x-generic ?
[21:55] <SiDi> it seems to point to test-x-generic
[21:55] <SiDi> test-x-preview sorry
[22:02] <DanRabbit> SiDi: Yea, I've not really begun 32px mimes yet
[22:02] <DanRabbit> there actually isn't a whole lot of 32px icons in elementary at all :D
[22:02] <DanRabbit> It's a work in progress.
[22:03] <SiDi> okies
[22:04] <SiDi> Do you think the mime 32px symlinks can be done a few days before the 2nd artwork freeze ? :P
[22:04] <SiDi> so we still have time to package that in xubuntu-artwork
[22:05] <DanRabbit> LOL
[22:05] <DanRabbit> no
[22:06] <DanRabbit> symlinks??
[22:06] <DanRabbit> it's not just symlinks
[22:06] <DanRabbit> I still have to draw all of them
[22:06] <DanRabbit> unless someone can help me scale, there's no way in hell
[22:08] <DanRabbit> For now, displaying the plain mime is the cleanest we're going to get for 32px icons
[22:11] <SiDi> i see
[22:27] <SiDi> bbhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Karmic#Icon%20theme DanRabbit slightly shorter list
[22:27] <SiDi> i removed the icons that were not actually coming from elementary
[22:28] <SiDi> DanRabbit:  ^ 
[22:28]  * SiDi failed in his paste !)
[22:28] <DanRabbit> okay give me a second
[22:29] <DanRabbit> Oh, thanks for the bug links :D
[22:31] <SiDi> :p
[23:10] <DanRabbit> SiDi_: I scaled the video mime just for you
[23:11] <SiDi_> Wee :D
[23:11] <SiDi_> <3
[23:12] <DanRabbit> I'll push to bzr
[23:13] <DanRabbit> okay boom pushed
[23:13] <DanRabbit> now I have to go to work :D
[23:16] <SiDi_> Thanks again
[23:16] <SiDi_> (btw how did it end for your work ? did your car get repaired ?)
[23:16] <DanRabbit> Yes, I updated my blog, I have to go update my gnome-look post
[23:17] <DanRabbit> I was able to raise enough money to where I bought the parts and did it myself ;)
[23:17] <DanRabbit> So far my car has not exploded, so I think I did a good job.
[23:18] <SiDi_> hehe great
[23:20] <DanRabbit> they made it look easy on YouTube
[23:21] <DanRabbit> but, I'm no mechanic, it took me all day :S
[23:24] <DanRabbit> okay really g2g
[23:24] <DanRabbit> bye all