[01:36] <c_korn> I wonder if there is a way to configure indicator-applet only to show pidgin only if empathy and evolution are still installed.
[12:30] <rugby471> mpt: hello
[12:34] <mpt> hi rugby471
[12:35] <rugby471> mpt: I have just finished of some work on the dependency dialogs
[12:35] <rugby471> mpt: and just started a little bit on the history view :-)
[12:35] <rugby471> mpt: I wonder whether that could be the next thing you spec
[12:36] <rugby471> mpt: I was thinking about it and envisioning a list with buttons so you can undo each history item, and a calender below to filter by data...
[12:36] <rugby471> *date
[12:37] <mpt> rugby471, I won't be able to spec that during work time, because I'm fully booked working on other stuff until UDS
[12:37] <rugby471> mpt:sure
[12:37] <mpt> but I might be able to do it in spare time
[12:37] <rugby471> mpt: well it is not nearly working at all at the moment so don't worry :-)
[12:38] <rugby471> just the preliminary code for the xml file that keeps track fo the history is there atm
[12:38] <rugby471> *of
[12:38] <mpt> rugby471, can you draw a sketch or something of the layout you were thinking of?
[12:38] <rugby471> mpt: sure
[12:38] <mpt> I was thinking more of a reverse-chronological list, but I hadn't really thought about how to filter it by date
[12:38] <rugby471> mpt: for some reason I have some of my best ideas in the shower ? :-)
[12:39] <rugby471> mpt: yeah, but then the option to use the calender to filter
[12:39] <rugby471> anyway I shall do that :-)
[12:39] <mpt> thanks
[12:40] <mpt> Make a sub-page on the wiki for the mockups, linked to from the History section, if that's convenient
[12:40] <rugby471> ok
[12:40] <mpt> thanks for working on the dependency dialogs
[12:40] <rugby471> no problem
[12:40] <mpt> How are they looking?
[12:41] <rugby471> mpt: the only thing 'wrong' with them at the moment are the alignment of the package view with the text, and the icons are not yet the icons of the actual dependencies, just the generic package icon
[12:41] <rugby471> mpt: you can check them out form my branch https://code.launchpad.net/~rugby471/software-store/software-store-andrew
[12:43] <mpt> rugby471, maybe you could discuss this with mvo, but I think the package list view should be some kind of reusable widget, so that you can say "show this set of packages in a package list view here", and they get all their appropriate text, icons etc automatically
[12:43] <rugby471> mpt: yeah I was thinking about that as well
[12:43] <rugby471> mpt: there is a lot of duplicated code
[12:43] <mpt> That way you wouldn't need to reimplement the icons in the dialog, for example
[12:43] <mpt> And Update Manager could use the same view as well.
[12:44] <rugby471> mpt: I think I shall let mvo do some of it though :-) there is still much I ahve to learn...
[12:44] <rugby471> *have
[12:46] <rugby471> currently I am chasing the zoom icon in dmz-cursor-theme
[12:46] <rugby471> mpt: there isn't one and webkit gives it an ugly one when used in software-store
[12:47] <mpt> rugby471, zoom icon? what for?
[12:47] <rugby471> mpt: when you click on the screenshot, it now enlarges
[12:48] <mpt> oh, right. I should spec that precisely for v2.
[12:48] <mpt> Probably the screenshot should have a zoom-in emblem in the corner, rather than using a cursor.
[12:49] <rugby471> mpt: in that case I won't :-)
[12:49] <mpt> won't what?
[12:49] <rugby471> mpt: chase the zoom icon thing
[12:50] <rugby471> mpt: anyway I need to do some work now
[12:50] <rugby471> mpt: see ya
[12:50] <mpt> ok, have fun
[12:52] <rugby471> mpt: btw this is the type of xml doc. that I am using for the history, is there any other data that needs to be here?
[12:52] <rugby471> http://pastebin.com/d3fcd92ec
[12:52] <rugby471> mpt: the event would be something like install PKG
[12:53] <rugby471> and action would be the actuall things that happen (ie. install of pkg1, pkg2 & pkg3)
[12:53] <mpt> rugby471, are you aware that Synaptic already has a history, including things that were done in Update Manager etc? So I think all this info is already being stored elsewhere.
[12:55] <rugby471> mpt: no
[12:55] <rugby471> mpt: hehe I should probably check this
[12:57] <mpt> From how it's displayed in Synaptic, I fear that it's recorded in an unstructured text format
[12:58] <mpt> I'm not sure what the best way of structuring it would be, but maybe we can get away with not requiring an XML parser :-)
[12:59] <rugby471> mpt: just looking at it, it seems to just be a log file
[12:59] <rugby471> not very useful for parsing
[13:00] <rugby471> mpt: the xml parser is not that difficult etc.
[13:00] <rugby471> it makes it very easy
[13:00] <mpt> hmmmm
[13:00] <rugby471> mpt: yep I think it is a commit log, as when I changed languages to french (randomly) it shows the log in a different language
[13:01] <mpt> That's unfortunate (for the Store, I mean, not for French speakers)
[13:01] <mpt> This gets into the issue of how closely Update Manager should combine with the Store
[13:01] <rugby471> mpt: it would not be that hard to port the history thing into update-manager
[13:01] <mpt> because it would be nice to see a History of previous updates from Update Manager, too
[13:01] <mpt> which would be a subset of the history the Store showed
[13:02] <rugby471> mpt: ie. before software-store takes over from update-manager, port the code
[13:02] <rugby471> mpt: I shall discuss with mvo definitely
[13:02] <rugby471> mpt: however xml is the way forward :-)
[13:04] <rugby471> mpt: the possibility to 'undo' actions seems to be very useful though :-)
[13:04] <mpt> yes, definitely
[13:13] <mac_v> rugby471: we are trying to eventually replace synaptic also , so undo \o/ ... i'v made so many undos in synaptic ;)
[13:14] <rugby471> mac_v: hehe
[13:14] <rugby471> mac_v: it would also be really useful in the case of - something broke today, so what changes have happened since then...
[13:15] <mac_v> rugby471: the major problem with synaptic history ... is the history doesnt record any installs/removals from terminal :(
[13:16] <rugby471> mac_v: yup
[13:16] <rugby471> mac_v: I don't think that apt-get stores history
[13:17] <mac_v> yeah , i think it needs to be figured out
[13:17] <c_korn> mpt: hello. thanks for the explanation regarding the "missing" icons in the places menu in the bug report. you mentioned that software store has been moved to a different place. but now I cannot find it in the menu at all.
[13:17] <mac_v> hehe ^
[13:17] <rugby471> >:-(
[13:18] <rugby471> thats is mvo's territory :-)
[13:18] <mpt> c_korn, that's not good. Actually it's seb128's territory, I think.
[13:19] <mpt> c_korn, report the bug, and link to it from a comment in the bug report I linked to about moving it.
[13:19]  * mpt wonders if that made any sense
[13:20] <c_korn> mpt: what package should the bug be reported to ?
[13:20] <mpt> c_korn, gnome-panel
[13:21] <mac_v> mpt: regarding zoom of screenshots are you planning on having a constant emblem , or a one semi transparent one which shows only when user hovers over the screenshot?
[13:21] <mac_v>  or a semi transparent one*
[13:21] <mpt> mac_v, I hadn't really thought about it. What do you suggest?
[13:22] <mac_v> a semi-transparent one on pointer hover  , is better
[13:23] <mac_v> having a constant emblem would spoil the screenshot and it would cover the screenshot:)
[13:24] <mpt> hm, good point
[13:26] <c_korn> (opened bug 433035)
[13:28] <mac_v> c_korn: nice quote "As said by Matthew Paul Thomas " :)
[13:29] <mac_v> just an FYI , its also in the latest specs ;)
[13:34] <mpt> c_korn, ah, I hadn't seen the latest in bug 431882: "The software store desktop should be changed to drop its nodisplay=true now"
[13:34] <mpt> That'll be why it's not appearing
[13:51] <mac_v> rugby471: this sounds like the windows system restore "I was thinking about it and envisioning a list with buttons so you can undo each history item, and a calender below to filter by date..." ;) ...
[13:51] <mac_v> mpt: rugby471: how about something more graphical? user clicks , history > view is first calender  , user selects date > view changes to the list [if possible list with the screenshots of app] , back goes back to the calendar?
[13:52] <mac_v> for version 2? ;) or is that similar to OSX , time machine ;p
[13:52] <rugby471> mac_v: I though it might sound similiar:-)
[13:52] <rugby471> mac_v: that sounds pretty complex :-)
[13:52] <mac_v> yup , didnt say it was easy ;)
[13:53] <mpt> mac_v, there are a few different cases we want to cater for
[13:54] <mpt> Probably the most common is "What's that program I installed last night, I don't remember what it's called"
[13:54] <mpt> Another is "Something bad started happening on my system around September 12th. What package changes happened just before then?"
[13:55] <mac_v> yup , so having the screenshot with the time installed will do it right?
[13:55] <mac_v> app name + screenshot + time installed > once the user selects the specific date
[13:56] <mpt> So, your suggestion would work for those two
[13:56] <mpt> But it wouldn't work so well if you can't remember, or don't know, the date you installed something
[13:56] <mac_v> and the sort order is always only according to time
[13:56] <mac_v> mpt: ah...
[13:56]  * mac_v thinks
[13:56] <mpt> "I installed some astronomy thing a few months ago, I don't remember exactly when"
[13:57] <mac_v> yay \o/... more categories nice :)
[13:57] <mpt> more categories?
[13:58] <mac_v> mpt: hmm... we could have it similar to the main window , "All" "Departments" on the top of the calendar ,
[13:59] <mac_v> so the user can switch the department and only the dates when he has installed those apps will be highlighted
[13:59] <mac_v> then he can toggle the months to any month he wants
[14:00]  * mac_v thinks about narrowing it more down for the "when"
[14:04] <mpt> How about a time slider that has marks to show when stuff actually happened?
[14:05] <mpt> Like F-Spot's, but pretty
[14:16] <mac_v> mpt: yeah , the slider for days should work :) , so the departments on first row , the time slider in the second row? and pretty app screenshots+info in the display below ?
[14:18] <mpt> mac_v, I don't know. This is like playing chess: you need to consider lots of possible moves. Draw up a bunch of possible layouts and see which ones would work well. :-)
[14:19] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[14:21] <mpt> One thing to consider: The history should be searchable. So it would make sense for a search field in the History screen to be in a location bar at the top, like the search field in all the other screens that has one. But a path button (as found in the location bars in other sections) might not make sense in the History section. So is there anything else that would make sense at the left end of that location bar, instead of the path button?
[14:29] <mac_v> mpt: "All Sources" button , + the "Filter by Source" Combo button reveals a list of the ppa/sources and on the selection the custom source is displayed next to the main button "Sources"...
[14:29] <mac_v> could that use the path bar?
[14:30] <mpt> mac_v, maybe, but why would that make sense for the History section and not for (for example) the "Installed Software" section?
[14:30] <mac_v> mpt: we display that *only* for history view
[14:30] <mpt> why?
[14:31] <mac_v> hrmm ... ;)
[14:31] <mpt> I think a realistic user story is "I want to see a list of installed software I have that's not from official Ubuntu repositories"
[14:31] <mac_v> mpt: why should the history view be similar to the regular store view?
[14:32] <mpt> so I should be able to filter the "Installed Software" section by source as well
[14:32] <mpt> And if I can filter both that section and the History section by the same attribute, the interface for doing that should be the same in each section
[14:32] <mpt> for the same reason that the search field should be in the same place in each section
[14:34] <mac_v> the constant search is good... but heh , I gave an idea for filling the path bar ;p  ... we could keep it empty in history ;)
[14:34] <mac_v> but that would not look nice :(
[14:36] <mpt> Well, it wouldn't be awful
[14:36] <mpt> The Cancel bar <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore#cancel-bar> will usually contain only one button, for example
[14:37] <mpt> but if there's something *specific* to filtering history that could fit in there, it would make sense to put it there.
[14:39] <mpt> I was wondering whether possibly the time slider would fit in there, but I guess there wouldn't be enough room.
[14:40] <mac_v> mpt: we could use the time slider there
[14:40] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[14:40] <mpt> snap
[14:44] <mac_v> mpt: meh , just text saying "Filter the installed apps by install section and date" or something worded shorter to fit the bar ;)
[14:45] <mpt> Well, consider the case I mentioned earlier: "Something bad started happening on my system around September 12th. What package changes happened just before then?"
[14:46] <mpt> In that case, you want to see installations, removals, and updates
[14:46] <mac_v> yeah , the text to be more appropriate then ;p
[14:46] <mpt> but in other cases, you'll just want to see installations ("what was that new program I installed last week? don't show me any update stuff, just the installations")
[14:47] <mac_v> oooh nice
[14:47] <mac_v> so installed , removed , updates? sections?
[14:47] <mpt> And in other cases, you might even want to see just removals only ("I uninstalled that thingamebob, and now I want it back, what was it called")
[14:47] <mpt> maybe :-)
[14:48] <mac_v> yeah , more categories... more difficulty for hackers \o/
[14:48] <mpt> Show: [ All changes      :^]
[14:49] <mpt> or
[14:49] <mac_v> yeah that sounds sane , "All" "Installed" "Removed" "Updated"
[14:49] <mpt> Show: (*) Everything  ( ) Installations  ( ) Removals  ( ) Updates
[14:49] <mpt> though maybe that would take up too much width
[14:50] <mac_v> hehe ;) , all is shorter ;)
[14:51] <mpt> yeah, but if it was labelled "All" it would be better as the last radio button rather than the first, so someone reading them in order has a better understanding of "all what"
[14:51] <mac_v> yeah last is better
[14:52] <mac_v> "Sort by"
[14:52] <mac_v> ?
[14:52] <mpt> maybe
[14:53] <mpt> or maybe that would be done with column headers
[14:53] <mpt> It depends on whether the items actually use columns
[14:53] <mac_v> huh? columns?
[14:53] <mac_v> oh please no columns in history too
[14:54] <mpt> why?
[14:54] <mpt> Consider the data we have to present:
[14:54] <mpt> - what package was changed
[14:54] <mpt> - when it was changed
[14:55] <mpt> - the kind of change (installed, removed, reinstalled, updated)
[14:55] <mpt>   - if was updaed, from which version to which version
[14:55] <mpt> That last one is the tricky one, visually
[14:56] <mpt> because we wouldn't want to spend (quite wide) columns just on that, if installations and removals aren't going to use them at all.
[14:56] <mpt> (Though I suppose installations would still have a resulting version.)
[14:57] <mac_v> mpt: columns are a bit tedious, its always trying to stuff more info , when cant present it better or allow the sort better
[14:58] <mac_v> when we have the buttons on top it simplifies the view than having columns
[14:58] <mpt> And then actions for each of the items: some combination of "Undo", "Reinstall", "Remove", "Downgrade"
[14:58] <mpt> though those might be in a menu opened from a single menubutton for each item
[15:09] <mac_v> the view can be simple  , 3 columns , 1: screenshot 2:App info in rows [a:Name , b:was installed/removed/upgraded on___  ] 3: actions buttons  a:Install/Remove[depending on last action] b:Re-install c:Downgrade
[15:11] <mac_v> mpt: also  , SS must keep the screenshots archived , that would speed up the view
[15:11] <tgpraveen> will the empathy that ships with karmic have msn audio/video?
[15:11] <tgpraveen> bigon: kenvandine ^^?
[15:12] <kenvandine> tgpraveen, depends on what we need to add :)
[15:12] <kenvandine> tgpraveen, please file a bug and go ahead and assign it to me
[15:12] <tgpraveen> kenvandine: ok
[15:13] <kenvandine> thx
[15:14] <mpt> mac_v, cached, you mean? I agree
[15:15] <mac_v> oh yeah , cached
[15:16] <tgpraveen> kenvandine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/333675
[15:16] <tgpraveen> there was a bug already
[15:16] <kenvandine> thx
[15:17] <tgpraveen> and it seems bigon is tracking so am not doing anything
[15:17] <bigon> tgpraveen: we need lastversion of telepathy-butterfly and python-msn
[15:17] <kenvandine> woot
[15:17] <mac_v> mpt: but more permanently , the nautilus thumbnails cache gets cleared every 180 days by default , the screenshot can be updated only on updates
[15:18] <tgpraveen> bigon: and is it planned to include those versions or not?
[15:18] <bigon> dunno, I think that it's still under discussion
[15:38] <mac_v> tgpraveen:  is chat audio/video possible for yahoo accounts?
[15:38] <tgpraveen> mac_v: no sadly not right now :-( currently
[15:38] <tgpraveen> only gyachi on linux does that I think
[15:39]  * mac_v searches magic gyachi ;)
[15:39] <tgpraveen> mac_v: I think its not there in repos
[15:39] <mac_v> argh!
[15:39] <tgpraveen> search forum there is a nice thread with howto
[15:39] <tgpraveen> and all
[15:39] <mac_v> tgpraveen: oh ok thanks :)
[15:42] <mac_v> mpt: you still here? your thoughts on Bug #204567 , shall we Increase the limit to make downloads available on the bookmarks? since now even UbuntuOne is in the default install , so now the user has no room for custom bookmarks
[15:44] <mpt> mac_v, that falls under the "I don't really care" category at the moment
[15:44] <mac_v> ;p
[15:44] <mpt> It makes miled sense to me to have a Downloads folder, and for that to show by default in Places
[15:44] <mpt> mild sense, rather
[15:47] <tgpraveen> maybe remove desktop item from places menu
[15:47] <tgpraveen> and instead addd downloads seems
[15:47] <tgpraveen> to be more in keeping with the whole point of places menu
[15:48] <mac_v> tgpraveen: desktop doesnt fall under the submenu
[15:48] <mac_v> its a separate item
[15:48] <tgpraveen> though with gnome shell all this will be gone
[15:48] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[16:30] <chrisccoulson> james_w - if you have a few spare minutes, would you mind approving the libgda4 packages in NEW?
[16:45] <mac_v> mpt: BTW ,that bug has a patch and is being held up only for a comment from you ;)
[16:45] <mpt> really?
[16:46] <mac_v> yup, Sebastien wanted your decision
[16:46] <mpt> "I've discussed that with alex on IRC let's do the change"
[16:47] <mac_v> mpt: thats for the name Download > Download"s"
[16:47] <mpt> oh
[17:15] <james_w> chrisccoulson: sure
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> james_w - thank you:)
[17:16] <james_w> I'm pretty confused by this gdu-notification bug
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> james_w - which one?
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> the crasher?
[17:17] <james_w> yeah
[17:17] <james_w> I got it after a reboot today
[17:17] <chrisccoulson> me too. if i could actually recreate it, then it would be much easier to debug
[17:17] <james_w> with nothing in ~/.xsession-errors
[17:17] <james_w> no crash on re-running
[17:17] <james_w> and I think I was wrong about the send_interface being needed
[17:17] <james_w> re-reading the dbus docs it seems send_destination should have covered that
[17:17] <chrisccoulson> nothing in ~/.xession-errors is wierd, as there should be some warnings in there before it crashes
[17:18] <james_w> it seems to be some sort of race
[17:18] <chrisccoulson> do you think it is an issue with dbus activation?
[17:18] <james_w> but yeah, I can't see how it return NULL without a g_warning
[17:18] <james_w> ah yeah, I'd forgotten you mentioned that
[17:18] <james_w> something to look at I think
[17:19] <james_w> so, kill the daemon and re-run the notification?
[17:19] <chrisccoulson> james_w - i've seen a similar issue before where a call would always fail on the first go (even though the service was activated on the first call)
[17:20] <chrisccoulson> i had to work around it by calling org.freedesktop.DBus.StartServiceByName before making the first call
[17:20] <james_w> no crash doing that
[17:20] <james_w> did you get "unexpected return code 0" or something else?
[17:21] <chrisccoulson> james_w - not sure, it was quite a long time ago. i can try the code i was using again later and see if it still happens
[17:21] <chrisccoulson> anyway, i've got to dash to the supermarket. bbl!
[17:22] <james_w> if the thing is daemonising then it could be a race between the process exiting and the bus name being claimed
[17:22] <james_w> but that's just a stab in the dark
[17:22] <james_w> enjoy
[17:57] <tgpraveen> does messaging indicator support thunderbird or will it support by final release?
[18:42] <c_korn> where are the options to remove empathy and evolution from the indicator-applet
[18:45] <chrisccoulson> c_korn - not sure they exist yet
[18:46] <chrisccoulson> but you can remove them in /etc/indicators/messages/applications
[18:46] <c_korn> I read the mailing list. and Mark was against the idea of a settings dialog to enable/disable the appearence of the apps in the indicator-applet.
[18:46] <chrisccoulson> hmmmmm
[18:47] <c_korn> however now I have to create an account in evolution (which I do not want to use) to disable evolution in the applet
[18:47]  * chrisccoulson wouldn't mind some icons for the launchers in the menu
[18:47] <chrisccoulson> there is not enough visually different between "Empathy" and "Evolution"
[18:47] <chrisccoulson> its really awkward to launch the correct application
[18:48] <c_korn> and the configuration of evolution does not fit on a 800x600 resolution. so I have to guess where the buttons to the next dialog are (but this is another problem)
[18:50] <c_korn> tgpraveen: bug 367175 and bug 409849 are about that. thunderbird has to be patched to make use of the indicator-applet
[19:40] <tgpraveen1> http://ostatic.com/blog/ubuntu-version-9-10-code-named-lucid-lynx
[19:40] <tgpraveen1> ubuntu 10.04 name
[21:06] <chrisccoulson> hi kklimonda, are you working on bug 426335?
[21:31] <mauren> hi
[21:31] <mauren> Looking for an app/command/shortcut that will auto resize all open windows within gnome to fit screen so they are all visible.  Any suggestions?
[21:31] <chrisccoulson> mauren - not sure, maybe a compiz plugin or something
[21:32] <chrisccoulson> you want #ubuntu for support though ;)
[21:32] <mauren> ok
[21:33] <mauren> chrisccoulson I thought of that also .. but no luck.
[21:33] <mauren> using a compiz plugin
[21:49] <johanbr> mauren, this is really an #ubuntu question, but I think you want the "maximumize" compiz plugin
[21:51] <mauren> i tried the scale windows
[21:51] <mauren> it didnit work
[21:51] <mauren> i'll try that, thanks
[21:54] <mauren> wow
[21:54] <mauren> thanks
[21:54] <mauren> !
[22:05] <Amaranth> johanbr: And now I know what that plugin does too :)
[22:05] <johanbr> :)
[22:06] <Amaranth> kristian tried explaining once, he did it much worse
[22:24] <c_korn> eh, indicator-applet does not have an icon atm ?