| DBO | thank you for the review bratsche, merging the maximus branch now | 04:24 |
|---|---|---|
| DBO | btw, seems you keep the same insane hours I do :P | 04:24 |
| bratsche | DBO, heh, yeah. | 04:26 |
| DBO | it will be nice to have this one marked Fix committed before my boss even wakes up :) | 04:27 |
| mac_v | DanRabbit: ping ;) | 07:07 |
| DanRabbit1 | mac_v: pong | 07:08 |
| DBO | DanRabbit1, so right click menus in Docky 2 | 07:55 |
| DBO | I am considering limiting them to only picture, text, callback when clicked | 07:55 |
| DBO | can you see a need for things other than a picture and text in the right click menu? | 07:55 |
| DanRabbit1 | hmm | 07:55 |
| DanRabbit1 | well | 07:56 |
| DanRabbit1 | I could see like a slider | 07:56 |
| DBO | keep in mind I dont much want to implement a custom slider, so it would be a gtk slider | 07:56 |
| DanRabbit1 | hmm | 07:57 |
| DanRabbit1 | maybe then, for now it's okay :) | 07:57 |
| DBO | ;) good call | 07:57 |
| DBO | also it occurs to me | 07:57 |
| DanRabbit1 | I am by no means an expert :D | 07:57 |
| DBO | if you want to make an svg that gets overlayed the hovered item... | 07:57 |
| DBO | in the menu that is | 07:57 |
| DanRabbit1 | ah | 07:57 |
| * DBO realizes he just signed up for more tiling... | 07:58 | |
| DanRabbit1 | no | 07:58 |
| DanRabbit1 | just stretching | 07:58 |
| DBO | oooo | 07:58 |
| DBO | I like stretching | 07:58 |
| DBO | I already wrote a nice encapsulated way to do that | 07:58 |
| DanRabbit1 | I'd give you a 1px X Npx svg | 07:58 |
| DBO | sexy :) | 07:59 |
| DanRabbit1 | but, can you inherit what the current GTK theme uses? | 07:59 |
| DanRabbit1 | that might be good for integration. | 07:59 |
| DBO | inherit what in particular? | 08:00 |
| DanRabbit1 | just that overlay part | 08:00 |
| DanRabbit1 | from the menus | 08:00 |
| DBO | mmmm | 08:00 |
| DBO | most likely... | 08:00 |
| DBO | I'll have to dig into the gtk drawing functions | 08:00 |
| DBO | I tend to avoid those because they often come out ugly | 08:01 |
| DanRabbit1 | okay | 08:01 |
| DanRabbit1 | well, then I'll draw something pretty for you :D | 08:01 |
| DBO | i like da purdy :) | 08:01 |
| DBO | morning davidbarth | 08:11 |
| davidbarth | hi DBO | 08:12 |
| DBO | I took care of that Maximus issue, is there anything else around for me to go after? | 08:13 |
| davidbarth | DBO: the crasher on exit? | 08:19 |
| DBO | the crasher on exit is nearly certainly a driver issue based on the trace, we need to gather more xorg/video card information. I have been fortunate enough to get the apport guys to add a hook to netbook-launcher to gather this information on crash from now on | 08:20 |
| DBO | the Maximus issue I fixed was where it ended up spawning so many instances it would lock up the system (more or less) | 08:20 |
| mac_v | DBO: you can almost always get the maximus crash in a virtualbox | 08:21 |
| DBO | maximus? | 08:21 |
| mac_v | yup | 08:21 |
| DBO | interesting | 08:21 |
| DBO | thank you, that is information that will help me greatly :) | 08:22 |
| mac_v | np... it mostly occurs when all the app windows are being closed | 08:22 |
| DBO | which bug # are we talking here? | 08:23 |
| mac_v | DBO: hmm.. i didnt report a bug :( , i didnt look into it too much , i was mostly testing ti for Humanity , i noticed this.. | 08:24 |
| mac_v | it* | 08:24 |
| DBO | can you give me a full description | 08:24 |
| DBO | this is my first hearing of maximus crashing | 08:24 |
| mac_v | ok... let me reproduce it and get back in few mins | 08:25 |
| DBO | the crash on exit I thought davidbarth was referring to was the one in netbook-launcher :P | 08:25 |
| mac_v | err... maybe the same , let me check again | 08:25 |
| DBO | mac_v, any chance on a backtrace for me? :) | 08:38 |
| mac_v | DBO: the stupid thing is pissing me off! its either freezing or not crashing now :( | 08:39 |
| DBO | sweet sweet race conditions | 08:39 |
| mac_v | previously i always got a maximus crash , then i didnt bother about it! now that i want to catch it ... it hides from me :/ | 08:40 |
| mac_v | DBO: do you know how , the UNR windows-list desaturates its inactive window icons ? | 08:42 |
| DBO | i would hope I do | 08:42 |
| DBO | I wrote the code to do :P | 08:42 |
| mac_v | hehe ;) | 08:43 |
| DBO | what are you looking to know? | 08:43 |
| mac_v | DBO: could that be applied to the notification area icons? | 08:43 |
| DBO | yes | 08:43 |
| mac_v | great | 08:43 |
| mac_v | that would solve all the complaints from the UNR team! | 08:43 |
| DBO | notification area uses xembed however, and then paints directly onto the reparented window | 08:44 |
| DBO | so to properly get the effect we have to redirect that painting, and then provide a surrogate | 08:45 |
| mac_v | could we add exclusions? volume/battery/network/ ? | 08:45 |
| DBO | aren't those ones already desaturated? | 08:45 |
| mac_v | yeah , wasnt sure how it would work on these icons | 08:46 |
| DBO | desaturating a desaturated pixbuf doesn't do anything negative | 08:46 |
| mac_v | ah , awesome | 08:46 |
| mac_v | DBO: we need to mention this to lool | 08:47 |
| mac_v | oh he here :) | 08:47 |
| DBO | the implementation of this wont be as straightforward as it is on the window picker | 08:47 |
| mac_v | he's* | 08:47 |
| DBO | just so you know | 08:47 |
| mac_v | hmm... we could give it a shot , and see how it works... if it doesnt work out well :( | 08:48 |
| DBO | basically we are being mean to another process | 08:49 |
| DBO | and that process could decide to fight you on this | 08:50 |
| DBO | I personally think its easier to attack the library for making tray icons | 08:50 |
| DBO | since 99% of all applications use it | 08:50 |
| DBO | it would be easy peasy to make a quick patch that reads a gconf value for saturation | 08:51 |
| mac_v | DBO: either way , which ever works best is fine :) , the UNR team has concerns that the app icons are showing up in color while the system icons are greyscale... so if we solve that its great :) | 08:53 |
| DBO | what timescale do I need to get a working solution in? | 08:54 |
| DBO | and who in the UNR team exactly? | 08:54 |
| mac_v | hmm... i think lool wants it done within this week | 08:54 |
| DBO | there is no way I am getting a working version of the xembed hackery within a week | 08:56 |
| DBO | I can cleanly patch gtk in a week, should be relatively small | 08:56 |
| mrooney | you just need more faith in yourself, DBO :) | 08:57 |
| DBO | well its not technically something either of my bosses have asked me to look into, so this would be on my own time | 08:57 |
| lool | Hey DBO, mac_v | 09:00 |
| DBO | hey lool | 09:00 |
| lool | mac_v: The idea of desaturating could work | 09:01 |
| mac_v | hey lool , DBO has an idea... but needs a bit of time :) | 09:01 |
| lool | But *that* is clearly a change for which I want the design team's ack on: it might render random icons ugly and I want them to say that it's an acceptable distorsion | 09:01 |
| mac_v | yeah ... they at first wanted only the system icons in greyscale | 09:02 |
| lool | DBO: If it turns out we need it, it could become an official assignment; but let's check whether it's what we want | 09:02 |
| DBO | lool, to desaturate these things will likely require patching gtk in a somewhat minor way | 09:03 |
| lool | DBO: The three options on the table for this particular bug are: switch to colored icons for notification area icons in humanity, or desaturate all notification area icons, or switch back to human | 09:04 |
| DBO | switch back to human is a terrible idea | 09:04 |
| DBO | no offense... | 09:04 |
| mrooney | human is a truly lackluster icon set indeed | 09:06 |
| * DBO forgot how much gtk loves its ifdefs | 09:06 | |
| DBO | i am still convinced this is a 5 or 10 line patch | 09:07 |
| lool | DBO: Why so? | 09:07 |
| mac_v | DBO: if the icons are desaturated , the error icons need to be allowed in color. | 09:07 |
| DBO | Humanity is a much more professional looking icon set lool | 09:07 |
| DBO | why? | 09:07 |
| mrooney | I bet it also provides icons in reasonable sizes | 09:08 |
| DBO | the notification area is clearly "optional" | 09:08 |
| mac_v | lool: just to test... if you change the UNR theme to human , you'll notice that several icons are blurred , it was not designed to be used in 64px size | 09:08 |
| lool | DBO: Ok so you're looking at it from a purely artistic point of view, but we're facing a list of small issues which make it problematic | 09:08 |
| DBO | lool, the greyscale icons can easily be made into colored ones. The guy who makes them has a set of colored icons for those if they are needed | 09:08 |
| lool | DBO: Now since the time I listed them and said I would revert back to human, a bunch of them got closed -- cool -- but when I was looking at it last week it was seriously unfit for release :-/ | 09:08 |
| mac_v | lool: actually we were working on them since reported ;p and it got completed now ;) | 09:09 |
| DBO | human is unfit for release on a 64x64px based display... | 09:09 |
| lool | I might be asking something weird but is there any reason why we dont try improving Human which is used by default in Ubuntu Desktop Edition? | 09:11 |
| lool | I mean I can see why it wouldn't be pretty on 64x64 but then we could spend time fixing *that* instead of having two themes | 09:11 |
| DBO | 2 reasons | 09:11 |
| mrooney | I'd much rather see the Desktop theme change too, there are such nice existing icon sets already | 09:12 |
| DBO | 1) shiny icons are very ugly looking... | 09:12 |
| DBO | 2) The human icon set was made by artists that are no longer supporting it | 09:12 |
| DBO | I dont even know if the original source material for it is available | 09:12 |
| lool | Ok but we're debating over the UNR icon theme when many more people are hit by the desktop one; why wouldn't we want to solve the problem for both? | 09:13 |
| DBO | I support that | 09:13 |
| DBO | but I can see where UNR gets hit harder | 09:13 |
| DBO | also it has been my understanding that in some ways UNR is a testing ground for ubuntu desktop. I could be wrong there however | 09:14 |
| lool | Is something blocking from incrementally improving the Human set? | 09:14 |
| lool | I dont really like the rewrite from scratch or wholesale replace approaches because they usually create as many bugs as they solve :-/ | 09:14 |
| lool | And here we end up with two themes to maintain in main, each with its own bugs | 09:15 |
| DBO | well here is how I see | 09:15 |
| DBO | UNR 2.0 has a new look. This look is very matt and professional. | 09:15 |
| lool | The situation gets worse as humanity requires human and hence we use more space because we ship two themes | 09:15 |
| DBO | It does not have any high gloss at all really | 09:15 |
| DBO | Human icons are the exact opposite. Extremely high gloss | 09:15 |
| DBO | they look incredibly out of place | 09:15 |
| DBO | The only way to fix this is a whole sale replacement | 09:16 |
| DBO | oh bleh, I could mod humanity to ship whatever human icons it needs in a couple hours. Thats a non issue | 09:16 |
| lool | Apparently it is a request of the design team to inherit human | 09:16 |
| lool | Besides, I need to keep both due to the desktop-switcher switch to classic desktop option | 09:17 |
| DBO | does that switch it back to human? | 09:17 |
| lool | It changes the Gtk+ theme for sure | 09:18 |
| lool | Oh crap it sets it to Human-Murrine-Netbook instead of Dust | 09:18 |
| DBO | bug? | 09:18 |
| lool | DBO: On its way; I hate the whole desktop-switched concept TBH; I'd rather drop this completely and allow opening an UNR or a Desktop session | 09:19 |
| DBO | lool, as for the icons. To me it largely comes down to that UNR is matt, Human is glossy | 09:19 |
| DBO | lool, we agree there | 09:20 |
| lool | DBO: Well you're saying Human sucks and Humanity is nice; that might be true, I'm not judging here, but it is something we should be fixing for the desktop as well and at the same time in fact; even if UNR is hit harder by the larger icons it uses | 09:22 |
| lool | So if you tell me using Humanity in UNR is part of the general plan of moving the desktop edition to Humanity as well I can agree | 09:23 |
| mac_v | lool: updating Human is not an easy task... it will take longer to fit it , and surely not before release | 09:23 |
| mac_v | i think they have plans for a new theme for Karmic+1 | 09:23 |
| mac_v | ICON THEME* | 09:23 |
| lool | That's likely | 09:23 |
| lool | 433859 | 09:23 |
| lool | DBO: Maximus > can you roll a release? it touches autotools, so it's a bit more pain to carry as patches, so I'd probably have to roll a tarball anyway | 09:24 |
| DBO | lool, I cant roll a release, I think neil or someone who is not an intern will need to do that | 09:25 |
| DBO | Im not 100% sure, but thus far nobody has okayed me to do something like that | 09:25 |
| lool | So I think the Humanity topic went a bit far out of the realm of things which can be done in karmic indeed | 09:25 |
| lool | My naive non-designer point of view is that we had been using Human before, it's used on the desktop and is supported; I had release blocking issues with Humanity after UI freeze so I was freaked out that they wouldn't get fixed; turns out Humanity folks are working on them so they can still make it, but we need to check with Design team how to address some of them | 09:27 |
| DBO | yep | 09:27 |
| DBO | perfect :) | 09:27 |
| lool | So while I was reverting back to Human, that was before hearing that the issues I reported were being addressed and before hearing that Human sucked so much from people with a clue about graphics; I still keep that as a potential technical solution in case the humanity issues cant be resolved, but the decision will probably come from the design team | 09:28 |
| lool | s/reverting/planning to revert/ | 09:28 |
| lool | njpatel: Hey | 09:28 |
| lool | njpatel: Is it ok for Jason to roll a maximus tarball? | 09:29 |
| lool | I'm usually cherry picking patches, especially for a single bug fix as here, but they touch autotools so I'd probably roll a tarball here anyway | 09:29 |
| lool | And I dont like messing with version numbers for the snapshot or using non-existent ones | 09:30 |
| lool | njpatel, DBO: I've milestoned 433859 for karmic release; the naive fix is trivial but perhaps you might want to consider doing unsets and hence changing the way d-s works slightly | 09:31 |
| njpatel | lool: yes it is | 09:31 |
| njpatel | (okay) :) | 09:31 |
| lool | DBO: Your first maximus tarball! | 09:32 |
| DBO | hot damn | 09:32 |
| DBO | I'd like to point out its 4:30 AM | 09:32 |
| DBO | can I sleep a little first? | 09:32 |
| lool | bzr tag, make distcheck, test the tarball, bzr push, publish tarball | 09:32 |
| njpatel | lool: having them as two sessions would solve a bunch of problems | 09:32 |
| lool | Should take you 5 minutes ;-) | 09:32 |
| DBO | ok, going | 09:33 |
| lool | DBO: I'm kidding it will take you longer really | 09:33 |
| lool | DBO: Go to bed if it's that late for you | 09:33 |
| lool | You're east coast? | 09:33 |
| lool | DBO: Good night | 09:34 |
| DBO | yeah, detroit | 09:34 |
| lool | njpatel: I guess I could roll a tarball | 09:35 |
| DBO | im on it | 09:35 |
| lool | Ok cool | 09:36 |
| njpatel | lool: of course you can :) | 09:36 |
| * njpatel is trying to get as many people working on unr as possible ! | 09:36 | |
| lool | Ok next time I'll jump on it, no need to bother DBO; that said it is probably a good thing for him to start doing that too | 09:36 |
| DBO | tarball works | 09:37 |
| lool | DBO: You bumped to 0.4.12? | 09:38 |
| DBO | yep | 09:38 |
| DBO | https://edge.launchpad.net/maximus/0.4/ubuntu-9.10-beta-freeze | 09:39 |
| lool | What's that? | 09:39 |
| DBO | where you can find the tarball | 09:39 |
| lool | Odd uscan doesn't see it | 09:40 |
| DBO | uscan? | 09:40 |
| lool | Pff if I use edge it does *sigh* | 09:40 |
| DBO | http://edge.launchpad.net/maximus/0.4/ubuntu-9.10-beta-freeze/+download/maximus-0.4.12.tar.gz | 09:40 |
| lool | DBO: Newest version on remote site is 0.4.11, local version is 0.4.11 | 09:40 |
| lool | Newest version on remote site is 0.4.12, local version is 0.4.11 | 09:40 |
| lool | => Newer version available from | 09:40 |
| lool | http://edge.launchpad.net/maximus/0.4/ubuntu-9.10-beta-freeze/+download/maximus-0.4.12.tar.gz | 09:40 |
| DBO | okay | 09:40 |
| DBO | whatever, the point is its there | 09:40 |
| lool | DBO: We have watch files in the packages which will grab the new tarball for us and do the update | 09:41 |
| DBO | please verify it is what you need :) | 09:41 |
| lool | packagers are lazy | 09:41 |
| lool | FYI you used automake 1.10 while the previous version used 1.11; I dont care personally but it's better to only go up in autotools versions over time | 09:42 |
| lool | No need to roll it back though | 09:42 |
| lool | DBO: Looks good, uploading; thanks! | 09:42 |
| DBO | dont tell anyone | 09:43 |
| DBO | but I still run jaunty | 09:43 |
| lool | Tss | 09:44 |
| njpatel | DBO: nnnoooo | 09:44 |
| njpatel | DBO: it's karmic time! (queue sideways dancing) | 09:44 |
| DBO | cant help it, the warning clearly says I shouldnt run karmic on a work box :P | 09:45 |
| njpatel | :) | 09:45 |
| njpatel | DBO: your obviously delusional -- go to sleep! | 09:45 |
| lool | subject: [ubuntu/karmic] maximus 0.4.12-0ubuntu1 (Accepted) | 09:45 |
| njpatel | thanks lool | 09:45 |
| DBO | wewt | 09:45 |
| DBO | my first release | 09:45 |
| lool | DBO: BTW in karmic there's a script to upload the tarball for you :-) | 09:46 |
| lool | lp-project-upload | 09:46 |
| === mpt_ is now known as mpt | ||
| === chaotic_ is now known as chaotic | ||
| === chaotic_ is now known as chaotic | ||
| * DBO pokes MacSlow | 16:17 | |
| MacSlow | DBO, hey Jason | 16:17 |
| lool | mac_v: around? | 16:17 |
| DBO | i hear maybe I can be of use to you on memory leaks in notify osd | 16:17 |
| lool | mac_v: Did a call with dux people and wanted to give you an update | 16:18 |
| mac_v | lool: hi... | 16:18 |
| MacSlow | DBO, yeah... I could use some help | 16:18 |
| lool | mac_v: Basically we want to keep humanity and fix its issues and they will provide recommendations on how we should fix each issue | 16:18 |
| MacSlow | DBO, I'll send you a email summing up status-quo... one sec | 16:18 |
| DBO | thank you :) | 16:18 |
| mac_v | lool: hmm.. sounds good :) | 16:18 |
| lool | mac_v: Concerning the humanity -> human dep, it seems ok to drop the inheritance/dep and copy over the human icons; they didn't mind | 16:18 |
| mac_v | lool: i asked Kenneth about that... he said sabdfl might mt like copying over the notification icons :( | 16:19 |
| mac_v | s/mt/not | 16:19 |
| lool | mac_v: They told they would bring this stuff up with sabdfl tomorrow | 16:20 |
| mac_v | ok , great | 16:20 |
| lool | I dont think the copying is an issue | 16:20 |
| lool | Just the b&w versus color stuff | 16:20 |
| mac_v | hmm.. ok , the b&w menu icons are fixed... | 16:21 |
| mac_v | only the app specific icons in the notification area are in color... all system icons are greyscale | 16:21 |
| mac_v | lool: thanks for the update :) | 16:22 |
| lool | np | 16:22 |
| lool | mac_v: Feel free to release a 0.3 whenever convenient if I still miss some fixes since lass bzr snapshot | 16:23 |
| lool | I slightly prefer running tagged releases with nice version numbers | 16:23 |
| mac_v | lool: i expect 0.3 will be released within this week , we are adding new icons to remove human inherits and might not need to copy over those icons either... | 16:25 |
| mac_v | lool: also could you confirm which icons the design team would like to use for notify-osd ? | 16:26 |
| mac_v | human ones or ... | 16:26 |
| DBO | MacSlow, it occurs to me you may not actually know my email. Jassmith@gmail.com | 16:27 |
| MacSlow | DBO, I have it already | 16:27 |
| * DBO flattered :P | 16:28 | |
| MacSlow | the magic of seaching mailing-lists in evolution :) | 16:28 |
| MacSlow | Name-completion is a nice thing in evo | 16:29 |
| lool | mac_v: It's a bit late to ask me to raise that to them :-( | 16:29 |
| lool | mac_v: Is there a bug about the choice of icon for notify-osd? | 16:30 |
| lool | mac_v: If not please file one now and I'll send it to them | 16:30 |
| mac_v | lool: hmm... there is no bug about the choice , either way we'd be doing the notification-* icons... just wanted to know if it is allowed to be used in the default theme :) | 16:32 |
| lool | mac_v: Sorry can you be more specific? Use what in the default theme? | 16:32 |
| * lool doens't understand | 16:33 | |
| mac_v | lool: about the use of the humanity's notify-osd icons...since we would be doing it in Humanity's style... but the wiki specs> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Icon < mention the style for the icons, which is how it was done in Human. so was wondering if it is allowed for the default theme to differ from the specs. | 16:36 |
| lool | mac_v: Ok is it reasonnable to consider changing this just before karmic release, well into UI freeze, or can it wait until lucid? | 16:47 |
| lool | mac_v: In all cases, if you like you can file a bug on this against humanity and I'll mention it to the DUX folks | 16:47 |
| mac_v | lool: now i didnt understand... "can it wait until lucid?" do you mean not making these icons in Humanity style? | 16:48 |
| mac_v | lool: also, i dont think it would be a bug in humanity... [how could we file a bug in Humanity to not make the icons ;p ] ... it would be a bug in UNR :) | 16:49 |
| lool | mac_v: Keeping whatever we have right now | 16:49 |
| mac_v | ah... ok | 16:50 |
| lool | mac_v: You could file a bug against humanity to request switching to new notification area icons, then request approval, then either wontfix it or fix it | 16:50 |
| lool | Given that the change would happen in humanity-icon-theme, it's the proper place to file a bug; but you could say it should be filed in ubuntu, not upstream | 16:51 |
| lool | anyway this is minor; any bug will do | 16:51 |
| === jws141 is now known as dashua | ||
| DanRabbit1 | Anybody around to take a look at some icons really quick? | 21:36 |
| mac_v | DanRabbit1: ;) | 21:57 |
| DanRabbit1 | http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/UbuntuOne/V3/ | 21:57 |
| DanRabbit1 | It's the UbuntuOne icons I'm doing | 21:57 |
| DanRabbit1 | what do you think? | 21:57 |
| mac_v | DanRabbit1: which one? | 21:58 |
| mac_v | the png? | 21:58 |
| DanRabbit1 | all of them | 21:58 |
| DanRabbit1 | they are emblems | 21:59 |
| DanRabbit1 | except one is a folder | 21:59 |
| mac_v | ah... ,the folder is a bit more reddish than Human's regular folder | 21:59 |
| DanRabbit1 | nu-uh, because I copied it | 22:00 |
| DanRabbit1 | :D | 22:00 |
| mac_v | hrmm! ;) wonder why it seems reddish! | 22:01 |
| mac_v | ;p | 22:01 |
| DanRabbit1 | I don't know | 22:01 |
| DanRabbit1 | your are too used to Humanity :D | 22:01 |
| mac_v | hehe yeah! , just checked with human icons they seem similar :) | 22:02 |
| mac_v | DanRabbit1: the synced is not either a complete circle nor an ellipse , thats the off icon , seems weird | 22:03 |
| DanRabbit1 | I had to squish it a little bit, so it wouldn't be super tall ;) | 22:04 |
| mac_v | and the ends dont fade out smoothly... a more gradual fading would be better | 22:05 |
| DanRabbit1 | mmkay | 22:05 |
| mac_v | DanRabbit1: the clouds look great :) | 22:05 |
| DanRabbit1 | I think it's just that bottom arrow.... | 22:05 |
| DanRabbit1 | I'm glad you like my cloud :D | 22:05 |
| mac_v | DanRabbit1: where is the silver lining? ;p | 22:06 |
| DanRabbit1 | hehe | 22:06 |
| DanRabbit1 | it's kind of silver... | 22:06 |
| DanRabbit1 | :p | 22:06 |
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