DBOthank you for the review bratsche, merging the maximus branch now04:24
DBObtw, seems you keep the same insane hours I do :P04:24
bratscheDBO, heh, yeah.04:26
DBOit will be nice to have this one marked Fix committed before my boss even wakes up :)04:27
mac_vDanRabbit: ping ;)07:07
DanRabbit1mac_v: pong07:08
DBODanRabbit1, so right click menus in Docky 207:55
DBOI am considering limiting them to only picture, text, callback when clicked07:55
DBOcan you see a need for things other than a picture and text in the right click menu?07:55
DanRabbit1I could see like a slider07:56
DBOkeep in mind I dont much want to implement a custom slider, so it would be a gtk slider07:56
DanRabbit1maybe then, for now it's okay :)07:57
DBO;) good call07:57
DBOalso it occurs to me07:57
DanRabbit1I am by no means an expert :D07:57
DBOif you want to make an svg that gets overlayed the hovered item...07:57
DBOin the menu that is07:57
* DBO realizes he just signed up for more tiling...07:58
DanRabbit1just stretching07:58
DBOI like stretching07:58
DBOI already wrote a nice encapsulated way to do that07:58
DanRabbit1I'd give you a 1px X Npx svg07:58
DBOsexy :)07:59
DanRabbit1but, can you inherit what the current GTK theme uses?07:59
DanRabbit1that might be good for integration.07:59
DBOinherit what in particular?08:00
DanRabbit1just that overlay part08:00
DanRabbit1from the menus08:00
DBOmost likely...08:00
DBOI'll have to dig into the gtk drawing functions08:00
DBOI tend to avoid those because they often come out ugly08:01
DanRabbit1well, then I'll draw something pretty for you :D08:01
DBOi like da purdy :)08:01
DBOmorning davidbarth 08:11
davidbarthhi DBO08:12
DBOI took care of that Maximus issue, is there anything else around for me to go after?08:13
davidbarthDBO: the crasher on exit?08:19
DBOthe crasher on exit is nearly certainly a driver issue based on the trace, we need to gather more xorg/video card information. I have been fortunate enough to get the apport guys to add a hook to netbook-launcher to gather this information on crash from now on08:20
DBOthe Maximus issue I fixed was where it ended up spawning so many instances it would lock up the system (more or less)08:20
mac_vDBO: you can almost always get the maximus crash in a virtualbox08:21
DBOthank you, that is information that will help me greatly :)08:22
mac_vnp... it mostly occurs when all the app windows are being closed08:22
DBOwhich bug # are we talking here?08:23
mac_vDBO: hmm.. i didnt report a bug :( , i didnt look into it too much , i was mostly testing ti for Humanity , i noticed this..08:24
DBOcan you give me a full description08:24
DBOthis is my first hearing of maximus crashing08:24
mac_vok... let me reproduce it and get back in few mins08:25
DBOthe crash on exit I thought davidbarth was referring to was the one in netbook-launcher :P08:25
mac_verr... maybe the same , let me check again 08:25
DBOmac_v, any chance on a backtrace for me? :)08:38
mac_vDBO: the stupid thing is pissing me off! its either freezing or not crashing now :(08:39
DBOsweet sweet race conditions08:39
mac_vpreviously i always got a maximus crash , then i didnt bother about it! now that i want to catch it ... it hides from me :/08:40
mac_vDBO: do you know how , the UNR windows-list desaturates its inactive window icons ?08:42
DBOi would hope I do08:42
DBOI wrote the code to do :P08:42
mac_vhehe ;)08:43
DBOwhat are you looking to know?08:43
mac_vDBO: could that be applied to the notification area icons?08:43
mac_vgreat 08:43
mac_vthat would solve all the complaints from the UNR team!08:43
DBOnotification area uses xembed however, and then paints directly onto the reparented window08:44
DBOso to properly get the effect we have to redirect that painting, and then provide a surrogate08:45
mac_vcould we add exclusions? volume/battery/network/ ?08:45
DBOaren't those ones already desaturated?08:45
mac_vyeah , wasnt sure how it would work on these icons08:46
DBOdesaturating a desaturated pixbuf doesn't do anything negative08:46
mac_vah , awesome08:46
mac_vDBO: we need to mention this to lool08:47
mac_voh he here  :)08:47
DBOthe implementation of this wont be as straightforward as it is on the window picker08:47
DBOjust so you know08:47
mac_vhmm... we could give it a shot  , and see how it works... if it doesnt work out well :(08:48
DBObasically we are being mean to another process08:49
DBOand that process could decide to fight you on this08:50
DBOI personally think its easier to attack the library for making tray icons08:50
DBOsince 99% of all applications use it08:50
DBOit would be easy peasy to make a quick patch that reads a gconf value for saturation08:51
mac_vDBO: either way , which ever works best is fine :) , the UNR team has concerns that the app icons are showing up in color while the system icons are greyscale...  so if we solve that its great :)08:53
DBOwhat timescale do I need to get a working solution in?08:54
DBOand who in the UNR team exactly?08:54
mac_vhmm... i think lool wants it done within this week08:54
DBOthere is no way I am getting a working version of the xembed hackery within a week08:56
DBOI can cleanly patch gtk in a week, should be relatively small08:56
mrooneyyou just need more faith in yourself, DBO :)08:57
DBOwell its not technically something either of my bosses have asked me to look into, so this would be on my own time08:57
loolHey DBO, mac_v 09:00
DBOhey lool 09:00
loolmac_v: The idea of desaturating could work09:01
mac_vhey lool  , DBO has an idea... but needs a bit of time :)09:01
loolBut *that* is clearly a change for which I want the design team's ack on: it might render random icons ugly and I want them to say that it's an acceptable distorsion09:01
mac_vyeah ... they at first wanted only the system icons in greyscale09:02
loolDBO: If it turns out we need it, it could become an official assignment; but let's check whether it's what we want09:02
DBOlool, to desaturate these things will likely require patching gtk in a somewhat minor way09:03
loolDBO: The three options on the table for this particular bug are: switch to colored icons for notification area icons in humanity, or desaturate all notification area icons, or switch back to human09:04
DBOswitch back to human is a terrible idea09:04
DBOno offense...09:04
mrooneyhuman is a truly lackluster icon set indeed09:06
* DBO forgot how much gtk loves its ifdefs09:06
DBOi am still convinced this is a 5 or 10 line patch09:07
loolDBO: Why so?09:07
mac_vDBO: if the icons are desaturated , the error icons need to be allowed in color.09:07
DBOHumanity is a much more professional looking icon set lool 09:07
mrooneyI bet it also provides icons in reasonable sizes09:08
DBOthe notification area is clearly "optional"09:08
mac_vlool: just to test... if you change the UNR theme to human , you'll notice that several icons are blurred , it was not designed to be used in 64px size09:08
loolDBO: Ok so you're looking at it from a purely artistic point of view, but we're facing a list of small issues which make it problematic09:08
DBOlool, the greyscale icons can easily be made into colored ones. The guy who makes them has a set of colored icons for those if they are needed09:08
loolDBO: Now since the time I listed them and said I would revert back to human, a bunch of them got closed -- cool -- but when I was looking at it last week it was seriously unfit for release  :-/09:08
mac_vlool: actually we were working on them since reported ;p and it got completed now ;)09:09
DBOhuman is unfit for release on a 64x64px based display...09:09
loolI might be asking something weird but is there any reason why we dont try improving Human which is used by default in Ubuntu Desktop Edition?09:11
loolI mean I can see why it wouldn't be pretty on 64x64 but then we could spend time fixing *that* instead of having two themes09:11
DBO2 reasons09:11
mrooneyI'd much rather see the Desktop theme change too, there are such nice existing icon sets already09:12
DBO1) shiny icons are very ugly looking...09:12
DBO2) The human icon set was made by artists that are no longer supporting it09:12
DBOI dont even know if the original source material for it is available09:12
loolOk but we're debating over the UNR icon theme when many more people are hit by the desktop one; why wouldn't we want to solve the problem for both?09:13
DBOI support that09:13
DBObut I can see where UNR gets hit harder09:13
DBOalso it has been my understanding that in some ways UNR is a testing ground for ubuntu desktop. I could be wrong there however09:14
loolIs something blocking from incrementally improving the Human set?09:14
loolI dont really like the rewrite from scratch or wholesale replace approaches because they usually create as many bugs as they solve   :-/09:14
loolAnd here we end up with two themes to maintain in main, each with its own bugs09:15
DBOwell here is how I see09:15
DBOUNR 2.0 has a new look. This look is very matt and professional.09:15
loolThe situation gets worse as humanity requires human and hence we use more space because we ship two themes09:15
DBOIt does not have any high gloss at all really09:15
DBOHuman icons are the exact opposite. Extremely high gloss09:15
DBOthey look incredibly out of place09:15
DBOThe only way to fix this is a whole sale replacement09:16
DBOoh bleh, I could mod humanity to ship whatever human icons it needs in a couple hours. Thats a non issue09:16
loolApparently it is a request of the design team to inherit human09:16
loolBesides, I need to keep both due to the desktop-switcher switch to classic desktop option09:17
DBOdoes that switch it back to human?09:17
loolIt changes the Gtk+ theme for sure09:18
loolOh crap it sets it to Human-Murrine-Netbook instead of Dust09:18
loolDBO: On its way; I hate the whole desktop-switched concept TBH; I'd rather drop this completely and allow opening an UNR or a Desktop session09:19
DBOlool, as for the icons. To me it largely comes down to that UNR is matt, Human is glossy09:19
DBOlool, we agree there09:20
loolDBO: Well you're saying Human sucks and Humanity is nice; that might be true, I'm not judging here, but it is something we should be fixing for the desktop as well and at the same time in fact; even if UNR is hit harder by the larger icons it uses09:22
loolSo if you tell me using Humanity in UNR is part of the general plan of moving the desktop edition to Humanity as well I can agree09:23
mac_vlool: updating Human is not an easy task... it will take longer to fit it , and surely not before release09:23
mac_vi think they have plans for a new theme for Karmic+109:23
mac_vICON THEME*09:23
loolThat's likely09:23
loolDBO: Maximus > can you roll a release?  it touches autotools, so it's a bit more pain to carry as patches, so I'd probably have to roll a tarball anyway09:24
DBOlool, I cant roll a release, I think neil or someone who is not an intern will need to do that09:25
DBOIm not 100% sure, but thus far nobody has okayed me to do something like that09:25
loolSo I think the Humanity topic went a bit far out of the realm of things which can be done in karmic indeed09:25
loolMy naive non-designer point of view is that we had been using Human before, it's used on the desktop and is supported; I had release blocking issues with Humanity after UI freeze so I was freaked out that they wouldn't get fixed; turns out Humanity folks are working on them so they can still make it, but we need to check with Design team how to address some of them09:27
DBOperfect :)09:27
loolSo while I was reverting back to Human, that was before hearing that the issues I reported were being addressed and before hearing that Human sucked so much from people with a clue about graphics; I still keep that as a potential technical solution in case the humanity issues cant be resolved, but the decision will probably come from the design team09:28
lools/reverting/planning to revert/09:28
loolnjpatel: Hey09:28
loolnjpatel: Is it ok for Jason to roll a maximus tarball?09:29
loolI'm usually cherry picking patches, especially for a single bug fix as here, but they touch autotools so I'd probably roll a tarball here anyway09:29
loolAnd I dont like messing with version numbers for the snapshot or using non-existent ones09:30
loolnjpatel, DBO: I've milestoned 433859 for karmic release; the naive fix is trivial but perhaps you might want to consider doing unsets and hence changing the way d-s works slightly09:31
njpatellool: yes it is09:31
njpatel(okay) :)09:31
loolDBO: Your first maximus tarball!09:32
DBOhot damn09:32
DBOI'd like to point out its 4:30 AM09:32
DBOcan I sleep a little first?09:32
loolbzr tag, make distcheck, test the tarball, bzr push, publish tarball09:32
njpatellool: having them as two sessions would solve a bunch of problems09:32
loolShould take you 5 minutes   ;-)09:32
DBOok, going09:33
loolDBO: I'm kidding it will take you longer really09:33
loolDBO: Go to bed if it's that late for you09:33
loolYou're east coast?09:33
loolDBO: Good night09:34
DBOyeah, detroit09:34
loolnjpatel: I guess I could roll a tarball09:35
DBOim on it09:35
loolOk cool09:36
njpatellool: of course you can :)09:36
* njpatel is trying to get as many people working on unr as possible !09:36
loolOk next time I'll jump on it, no need to bother DBO; that said it is probably a good thing for him to start doing that too09:36
DBOtarball works09:37
loolDBO: You bumped to 0.4.12?09:38
loolWhat's that?09:39
DBOwhere you can find the tarball09:39
loolOdd uscan doesn't see it09:40
loolPff if I use edge it does *sigh*09:40
loolDBO: Newest version on remote site is 0.4.11, local version is 0.4.1109:40
loolNewest version on remote site is 0.4.12, local version is 0.4.1109:40
lool => Newer version available from09:40
lool    http://edge.launchpad.net/maximus/0.4/ubuntu-9.10-beta-freeze/+download/maximus-0.4.12.tar.gz09:40
DBOwhatever, the point is its there09:40
loolDBO: We have watch files in the packages which will grab the new tarball for us and do the update09:41
DBOplease verify it is what you need :)09:41
loolpackagers are lazy09:41
loolFYI you used automake 1.10 while the previous version used 1.11; I dont care personally but it's better to only go up in autotools versions over time09:42
loolNo need to roll it back though09:42
loolDBO: Looks good, uploading; thanks!09:42
DBOdont tell anyone09:43
DBObut I still run jaunty09:43
njpatelDBO: nnnoooo09:44
njpatelDBO: it's karmic time! (queue sideways dancing)09:44
DBOcant help it, the warning clearly says I shouldnt run karmic on a work box :P09:45
njpatelDBO: your obviously delusional -- go to sleep!09:45
lool subject: [ubuntu/karmic] maximus 0.4.12-0ubuntu1 (Accepted)09:45
njpatelthanks lool09:45
DBOmy first release09:45
loolDBO: BTW in karmic there's a script to upload the tarball for you   :-)09:46
=== mpt_ is now known as mpt
=== chaotic_ is now known as chaotic
=== chaotic_ is now known as chaotic
* DBO pokes MacSlow 16:17
MacSlowDBO, hey Jason16:17
loolmac_v: around?16:17
DBOi hear maybe I can be of use to you on memory leaks in notify osd16:17
loolmac_v: Did a call with dux people and wanted to give you an update16:18
mac_vlool: hi...16:18
MacSlowDBO, yeah... I could use some help16:18
loolmac_v: Basically we want to keep humanity and fix its issues and they will provide recommendations on how we should fix each issue16:18
MacSlowDBO, I'll send you a email summing up status-quo... one sec16:18
DBOthank you :)16:18
mac_vlool: hmm.. sounds good :)16:18
loolmac_v: Concerning the humanity -> human dep, it seems ok to drop the inheritance/dep and copy over the human icons; they didn't mind16:18
mac_vlool: i asked Kenneth about that... he said sabdfl might mt like copying over the notification icons :(16:19
loolmac_v: They told they would bring this stuff up with sabdfl tomorrow16:20
mac_vok , great16:20
loolI dont think the copying is an issue16:20
loolJust the b&w versus color stuff16:20
mac_vhmm.. ok , the b&w menu icons are fixed... 16:21
mac_vonly the app specific icons in the notification area are in color... all system icons are greyscale16:21
mac_vlool: thanks for the update :)16:22
loolmac_v: Feel free to release a 0.3 whenever convenient if I still miss some fixes since lass bzr snapshot16:23
loolI slightly prefer running tagged releases with nice version numbers16:23
mac_vlool: i expect 0.3 will be released within this week , we are adding new icons to remove human inherits and might not need to copy over those icons either... 16:25
mac_vlool: also could you confirm which icons the design team would like to use for notify-osd ? 16:26
mac_vhuman ones or ...16:26
DBOMacSlow, it occurs to me you may not actually know my email. Jassmith@gmail.com16:27
MacSlowDBO, I have it already16:27
* DBO flattered :P16:28
MacSlowthe magic of seaching mailing-lists in evolution :)16:28
MacSlowName-completion is a nice thing in evo16:29
loolmac_v: It's a bit late to ask me to raise that to them   :-(16:29
loolmac_v: Is there a bug about the choice of icon for notify-osd?16:30
loolmac_v: If not please file one now and I'll send it to them16:30
mac_vlool: hmm... there is no bug about the choice , either way we'd be doing the notification-* icons... just wanted to know if it is allowed to be used in the default theme  :)16:32
loolmac_v: Sorry can you be more specific?  Use what in the default theme?16:32
* lool doens't understand16:33
mac_vlool: about the use of the humanity's notify-osd icons...since we would be doing it in Humanity's style... but the wiki specs> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Icon < mention the style for the icons, which is how it was done in Human. so was wondering if it is allowed for the default theme to differ from the specs.16:36
loolmac_v: Ok is it reasonnable to consider changing this just before karmic release, well into UI freeze, or can it wait until lucid?16:47
loolmac_v: In all cases, if you like you can file a bug on this against humanity and I'll mention it to the DUX folks16:47
mac_vlool: now i didnt understand...  "can it wait until lucid?" do you mean not making these icons in Humanity style?16:48
mac_vlool: also, i dont think it would be a bug in humanity... [how could we file a bug in Humanity to not make the icons ;p ] ...  it would be a bug in UNR :)16:49
loolmac_v: Keeping whatever we have right now16:49
mac_vah... ok16:50
loolmac_v: You could file a bug against humanity to request switching to new notification area icons, then request approval, then either wontfix it or fix it16:50
loolGiven that the change would happen in humanity-icon-theme, it's the proper place to file a bug; but you could say it should be filed in ubuntu, not upstream16:51
loolanyway this is minor; any bug will do16:51
=== jws141 is now known as dashua
DanRabbit1Anybody around to take a look at some icons really quick?21:36
mac_vDanRabbit1: ;)21:57
DanRabbit1It's the UbuntuOne icons I'm doing21:57
DanRabbit1what do you think?21:57
mac_vDanRabbit1: which one?21:58
mac_vthe png?21:58
DanRabbit1all of them21:58
DanRabbit1they are emblems21:59
DanRabbit1except one is a folder21:59
mac_vah... ,the folder is a bit more reddish than Human's regular folder21:59
DanRabbit1nu-uh, because I copied it22:00
mac_vhrmm! ;) wonder why it seems reddish!22:01
DanRabbit1I don't know22:01
DanRabbit1your are too used to Humanity :D22:01
mac_vhehe yeah! , just checked with human icons they seem similar :)22:02
mac_vDanRabbit1: the synced is not either a complete circle nor an ellipse , thats the off icon , seems weird22:03
DanRabbit1I had to squish it a little bit, so it wouldn't be super tall ;)22:04
mac_vand the ends dont fade out smoothly... a more gradual fading would be better22:05
mac_vDanRabbit1: the clouds look great :)22:05
DanRabbit1I think it's just that bottom arrow....22:05
DanRabbit1I'm glad you like my cloud :D22:05
mac_vDanRabbit1: where is the silver lining? ;p22:06
DanRabbit1it's kind of silver...22:06

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