[04:24] <DBO> thank you for the review bratsche, merging the maximus branch now
[04:24] <DBO> btw, seems you keep the same insane hours I do :P
[04:26] <bratsche> DBO, heh, yeah.
[04:27] <DBO> it will be nice to have this one marked Fix committed before my boss even wakes up :)
[07:07] <mac_v> DanRabbit: ping ;)
[07:08] <DanRabbit1> mac_v: pong
[07:55] <DBO> DanRabbit1, so right click menus in Docky 2
[07:55] <DBO> I am considering limiting them to only picture, text, callback when clicked
[07:55] <DBO> can you see a need for things other than a picture and text in the right click menu?
[07:55] <DanRabbit1> hmm
[07:56] <DanRabbit1> well
[07:56] <DanRabbit1> I could see like a slider
[07:56] <DBO> keep in mind I dont much want to implement a custom slider, so it would be a gtk slider
[07:57] <DanRabbit1> hmm
[07:57] <DanRabbit1> maybe then, for now it's okay :)
[07:57] <DBO> ;) good call
[07:57] <DBO> also it occurs to me
[07:57] <DanRabbit1> I am by no means an expert :D
[07:57] <DBO> if you want to make an svg that gets overlayed the hovered item...
[07:57] <DBO> in the menu that is
[07:57] <DanRabbit1> ah
[07:58]  * DBO realizes he just signed up for more tiling...
[07:58] <DanRabbit1> no
[07:58] <DanRabbit1> just stretching
[07:58] <DBO> oooo
[07:58] <DBO> I like stretching
[07:58] <DBO> I already wrote a nice encapsulated way to do that
[07:58] <DanRabbit1> I'd give you a 1px X Npx svg
[07:59] <DBO> sexy :)
[07:59] <DanRabbit1> but, can you inherit what the current GTK theme uses?
[07:59] <DanRabbit1> that might be good for integration.
[08:00] <DBO> inherit what in particular?
[08:00] <DanRabbit1> just that overlay part
[08:00] <DanRabbit1> from the menus
[08:00] <DBO> mmmm
[08:00] <DBO> most likely...
[08:00] <DBO> I'll have to dig into the gtk drawing functions
[08:01] <DBO> I tend to avoid those because they often come out ugly
[08:01] <DanRabbit1> okay
[08:01] <DanRabbit1> well, then I'll draw something pretty for you :D
[08:01] <DBO> i like da purdy :)
[08:11] <DBO> morning davidbarth 
[08:12] <davidbarth> hi DBO
[08:13] <DBO> I took care of that Maximus issue, is there anything else around for me to go after?
[08:19] <davidbarth> DBO: the crasher on exit?
[08:20] <DBO> the crasher on exit is nearly certainly a driver issue based on the trace, we need to gather more xorg/video card information. I have been fortunate enough to get the apport guys to add a hook to netbook-launcher to gather this information on crash from now on
[08:20] <DBO> the Maximus issue I fixed was where it ended up spawning so many instances it would lock up the system (more or less)
[08:21] <mac_v> DBO: you can almost always get the maximus crash in a virtualbox
[08:21] <DBO> maximus?
[08:21] <mac_v> yup
[08:21] <DBO> interesting
[08:22] <DBO> thank you, that is information that will help me greatly :)
[08:22] <mac_v> np... it mostly occurs when all the app windows are being closed
[08:23] <DBO> which bug # are we talking here?
[08:24] <mac_v> DBO: hmm.. i didnt report a bug :( , i didnt look into it too much , i was mostly testing ti for Humanity , i noticed this..
[08:24] <mac_v> it*
[08:24] <DBO> can you give me a full description
[08:24] <DBO> this is my first hearing of maximus crashing
[08:25] <mac_v> ok... let me reproduce it and get back in few mins
[08:25] <DBO> the crash on exit I thought davidbarth was referring to was the one in netbook-launcher :P
[08:25] <mac_v> err... maybe the same , let me check again 
[08:38] <DBO> mac_v, any chance on a backtrace for me? :)
[08:39] <mac_v> DBO: the stupid thing is pissing me off! its either freezing or not crashing now :(
[08:39] <DBO> sweet sweet race conditions
[08:40] <mac_v> previously i always got a maximus crash , then i didnt bother about it! now that i want to catch it ... it hides from me :/
[08:42] <mac_v> DBO: do you know how , the UNR windows-list desaturates its inactive window icons ?
[08:42] <DBO> i would hope I do
[08:42] <DBO> I wrote the code to do :P
[08:43] <mac_v> hehe ;)
[08:43] <DBO> what are you looking to know?
[08:43] <mac_v> DBO: could that be applied to the notification area icons?
[08:43] <DBO> yes
[08:43] <mac_v> great 
[08:43] <mac_v> that would solve all the complaints from the UNR team!
[08:44] <DBO> notification area uses xembed however, and then paints directly onto the reparented window
[08:45] <DBO> so to properly get the effect we have to redirect that painting, and then provide a surrogate
[08:45] <mac_v> could we add exclusions? volume/battery/network/ ?
[08:45] <DBO> aren't those ones already desaturated?
[08:46] <mac_v> yeah , wasnt sure how it would work on these icons
[08:46] <DBO> desaturating a desaturated pixbuf doesn't do anything negative
[08:46] <mac_v> ah , awesome
[08:47] <mac_v> DBO: we need to mention this to lool
[08:47] <mac_v> oh he here  :)
[08:47] <DBO> the implementation of this wont be as straightforward as it is on the window picker
[08:47] <mac_v> he's*
[08:47] <DBO> just so you know
[08:48] <mac_v> hmm... we could give it a shot  , and see how it works... if it doesnt work out well :(
[08:49] <DBO> basically we are being mean to another process
[08:50] <DBO> and that process could decide to fight you on this
[08:50] <DBO> I personally think its easier to attack the library for making tray icons
[08:50] <DBO> since 99% of all applications use it
[08:51] <DBO> it would be easy peasy to make a quick patch that reads a gconf value for saturation
[08:53] <mac_v> DBO: either way , which ever works best is fine :) , the UNR team has concerns that the app icons are showing up in color while the system icons are greyscale...  so if we solve that its great :)
[08:54] <DBO> what timescale do I need to get a working solution in?
[08:54] <DBO> and who in the UNR team exactly?
[08:54] <mac_v> hmm... i think lool wants it done within this week
[08:56] <DBO> there is no way I am getting a working version of the xembed hackery within a week
[08:56] <DBO> I can cleanly patch gtk in a week, should be relatively small
[08:57] <mrooney> you just need more faith in yourself, DBO :)
[08:57] <DBO> well its not technically something either of my bosses have asked me to look into, so this would be on my own time
[09:00] <lool> Hey DBO, mac_v 
[09:00] <DBO> hey lool 
[09:01] <lool> mac_v: The idea of desaturating could work
[09:01] <mac_v> hey lool  , DBO has an idea... but needs a bit of time :)
[09:01] <lool> But *that* is clearly a change for which I want the design team's ack on: it might render random icons ugly and I want them to say that it's an acceptable distorsion
[09:02] <mac_v> yeah ... they at first wanted only the system icons in greyscale
[09:02] <lool> DBO: If it turns out we need it, it could become an official assignment; but let's check whether it's what we want
[09:03] <DBO> lool, to desaturate these things will likely require patching gtk in a somewhat minor way
[09:04] <lool> DBO: The three options on the table for this particular bug are: switch to colored icons for notification area icons in humanity, or desaturate all notification area icons, or switch back to human
[09:04] <DBO> switch back to human is a terrible idea
[09:04] <DBO> no offense...
[09:06] <mrooney> human is a truly lackluster icon set indeed
[09:06]  * DBO forgot how much gtk loves its ifdefs
[09:07] <DBO> i am still convinced this is a 5 or 10 line patch
[09:07] <lool> DBO: Why so?
[09:07] <mac_v> DBO: if the icons are desaturated , the error icons need to be allowed in color.
[09:07] <DBO> Humanity is a much more professional looking icon set lool 
[09:07] <DBO> why?
[09:08] <mrooney> I bet it also provides icons in reasonable sizes
[09:08] <DBO> the notification area is clearly "optional"
[09:08] <mac_v> lool: just to test... if you change the UNR theme to human , you'll notice that several icons are blurred , it was not designed to be used in 64px size
[09:08] <lool> DBO: Ok so you're looking at it from a purely artistic point of view, but we're facing a list of small issues which make it problematic
[09:08] <DBO> lool, the greyscale icons can easily be made into colored ones. The guy who makes them has a set of colored icons for those if they are needed
[09:08] <lool> DBO: Now since the time I listed them and said I would revert back to human, a bunch of them got closed -- cool -- but when I was looking at it last week it was seriously unfit for release  :-/
[09:09] <mac_v> lool: actually we were working on them since reported ;p and it got completed now ;)
[09:09] <DBO> human is unfit for release on a 64x64px based display...
[09:11] <lool> I might be asking something weird but is there any reason why we dont try improving Human which is used by default in Ubuntu Desktop Edition?
[09:11] <lool> I mean I can see why it wouldn't be pretty on 64x64 but then we could spend time fixing *that* instead of having two themes
[09:11] <DBO> 2 reasons
[09:12] <mrooney> I'd much rather see the Desktop theme change too, there are such nice existing icon sets already
[09:12] <DBO> 1) shiny icons are very ugly looking...
[09:12] <DBO> 2) The human icon set was made by artists that are no longer supporting it
[09:12] <DBO> I dont even know if the original source material for it is available
[09:13] <lool> Ok but we're debating over the UNR icon theme when many more people are hit by the desktop one; why wouldn't we want to solve the problem for both?
[09:13] <DBO> I support that
[09:13] <DBO> but I can see where UNR gets hit harder
[09:14] <DBO> also it has been my understanding that in some ways UNR is a testing ground for ubuntu desktop. I could be wrong there however
[09:14] <lool> Is something blocking from incrementally improving the Human set?
[09:14] <lool> I dont really like the rewrite from scratch or wholesale replace approaches because they usually create as many bugs as they solve   :-/
[09:15] <lool> And here we end up with two themes to maintain in main, each with its own bugs
[09:15] <DBO> well here is how I see
[09:15] <DBO> UNR 2.0 has a new look. This look is very matt and professional.
[09:15] <lool> The situation gets worse as humanity requires human and hence we use more space because we ship two themes
[09:15] <DBO> It does not have any high gloss at all really
[09:15] <DBO> Human icons are the exact opposite. Extremely high gloss
[09:15] <DBO> they look incredibly out of place
[09:16] <DBO> The only way to fix this is a whole sale replacement
[09:16] <DBO> oh bleh, I could mod humanity to ship whatever human icons it needs in a couple hours. Thats a non issue
[09:16] <lool> Apparently it is a request of the design team to inherit human
[09:17] <lool> Besides, I need to keep both due to the desktop-switcher switch to classic desktop option
[09:17] <DBO> does that switch it back to human?
[09:18] <lool> It changes the Gtk+ theme for sure
[09:18] <lool> Oh crap it sets it to Human-Murrine-Netbook instead of Dust
[09:18] <DBO> bug?
[09:19] <lool> DBO: On its way; I hate the whole desktop-switched concept TBH; I'd rather drop this completely and allow opening an UNR or a Desktop session
[09:19] <DBO> lool, as for the icons. To me it largely comes down to that UNR is matt, Human is glossy
[09:20] <DBO> lool, we agree there
[09:22] <lool> DBO: Well you're saying Human sucks and Humanity is nice; that might be true, I'm not judging here, but it is something we should be fixing for the desktop as well and at the same time in fact; even if UNR is hit harder by the larger icons it uses
[09:23] <lool> So if you tell me using Humanity in UNR is part of the general plan of moving the desktop edition to Humanity as well I can agree
[09:23] <mac_v> lool: updating Human is not an easy task... it will take longer to fit it , and surely not before release
[09:23] <mac_v> i think they have plans for a new theme for Karmic+1
[09:23] <mac_v> ICON THEME*
[09:23] <lool> That's likely
[09:23] <lool> 433859
[09:24] <lool> DBO: Maximus > can you roll a release?  it touches autotools, so it's a bit more pain to carry as patches, so I'd probably have to roll a tarball anyway
[09:25] <DBO> lool, I cant roll a release, I think neil or someone who is not an intern will need to do that
[09:25] <DBO> Im not 100% sure, but thus far nobody has okayed me to do something like that
[09:25] <lool> So I think the Humanity topic went a bit far out of the realm of things which can be done in karmic indeed
[09:27] <lool> My naive non-designer point of view is that we had been using Human before, it's used on the desktop and is supported; I had release blocking issues with Humanity after UI freeze so I was freaked out that they wouldn't get fixed; turns out Humanity folks are working on them so they can still make it, but we need to check with Design team how to address some of them
[09:27] <DBO> yep
[09:27] <DBO> perfect :)
[09:28] <lool> So while I was reverting back to Human, that was before hearing that the issues I reported were being addressed and before hearing that Human sucked so much from people with a clue about graphics; I still keep that as a potential technical solution in case the humanity issues cant be resolved, but the decision will probably come from the design team
[09:28] <lool> s/reverting/planning to revert/
[09:28] <lool> njpatel: Hey
[09:29] <lool> njpatel: Is it ok for Jason to roll a maximus tarball?
[09:29] <lool> I'm usually cherry picking patches, especially for a single bug fix as here, but they touch autotools so I'd probably roll a tarball here anyway
[09:30] <lool> And I dont like messing with version numbers for the snapshot or using non-existent ones
[09:31] <lool> njpatel, DBO: I've milestoned 433859 for karmic release; the naive fix is trivial but perhaps you might want to consider doing unsets and hence changing the way d-s works slightly
[09:31] <njpatel> lool: yes it is
[09:31] <njpatel> (okay) :)
[09:32] <lool> DBO: Your first maximus tarball!
[09:32] <DBO> hot damn
[09:32] <DBO> I'd like to point out its 4:30 AM
[09:32] <DBO> can I sleep a little first?
[09:32] <lool> bzr tag, make distcheck, test the tarball, bzr push, publish tarball
[09:32] <njpatel> lool: having them as two sessions would solve a bunch of problems
[09:32] <lool> Should take you 5 minutes   ;-)
[09:33] <DBO> ok, going
[09:33] <lool> DBO: I'm kidding it will take you longer really
[09:33] <lool> DBO: Go to bed if it's that late for you
[09:33] <lool> You're east coast?
[09:34] <lool> DBO: Good night
[09:34] <DBO> yeah, detroit
[09:35] <lool> njpatel: I guess I could roll a tarball
[09:35] <DBO> im on it
[09:36] <lool> Ok cool
[09:36] <njpatel> lool: of course you can :)
[09:36]  * njpatel is trying to get as many people working on unr as possible !
[09:36] <lool> Ok next time I'll jump on it, no need to bother DBO; that said it is probably a good thing for him to start doing that too
[09:37] <DBO> tarball works
[09:38] <lool> DBO: You bumped to 0.4.12?
[09:38] <DBO> yep
[09:39] <DBO> https://edge.launchpad.net/maximus/0.4/ubuntu-9.10-beta-freeze
[09:39] <lool> What's that?
[09:39] <DBO> where you can find the tarball
[09:40] <lool> Odd uscan doesn't see it
[09:40] <DBO> uscan?
[09:40] <lool> Pff if I use edge it does *sigh*
[09:40] <DBO> http://edge.launchpad.net/maximus/0.4/ubuntu-9.10-beta-freeze/+download/maximus-0.4.12.tar.gz
[09:40] <lool> DBO: Newest version on remote site is 0.4.11, local version is 0.4.11
[09:40] <lool> Newest version on remote site is 0.4.12, local version is 0.4.11
[09:40] <lool>  => Newer version available from
[09:40] <lool>     http://edge.launchpad.net/maximus/0.4/ubuntu-9.10-beta-freeze/+download/maximus-0.4.12.tar.gz
[09:40] <DBO> okay
[09:40] <DBO> whatever, the point is its there
[09:41] <lool> DBO: We have watch files in the packages which will grab the new tarball for us and do the update
[09:41] <DBO> please verify it is what you need :)
[09:41] <lool> packagers are lazy
[09:42] <lool> FYI you used automake 1.10 while the previous version used 1.11; I dont care personally but it's better to only go up in autotools versions over time
[09:42] <lool> No need to roll it back though
[09:42] <lool> DBO: Looks good, uploading; thanks!
[09:43] <DBO> dont tell anyone
[09:43] <DBO> but I still run jaunty
[09:44] <lool> Tss
[09:44] <njpatel> DBO: nnnoooo
[09:44] <njpatel> DBO: it's karmic time! (queue sideways dancing)
[09:45] <DBO> cant help it, the warning clearly says I shouldnt run karmic on a work box :P
[09:45] <njpatel> :)
[09:45] <njpatel> DBO: your obviously delusional -- go to sleep!
[09:45] <lool>  subject: [ubuntu/karmic] maximus 0.4.12-0ubuntu1 (Accepted)
[09:45] <njpatel> thanks lool
[09:45] <DBO> wewt
[09:45] <DBO> my first release
[09:46] <lool> DBO: BTW in karmic there's a script to upload the tarball for you   :-)
[09:46] <lool> lp-project-upload
[16:17]  * DBO pokes MacSlow 
[16:17] <MacSlow> DBO, hey Jason
[16:17] <lool> mac_v: around?
[16:17] <DBO> i hear maybe I can be of use to you on memory leaks in notify osd
[16:18] <lool> mac_v: Did a call with dux people and wanted to give you an update
[16:18] <mac_v> lool: hi...
[16:18] <MacSlow> DBO, yeah... I could use some help
[16:18] <lool> mac_v: Basically we want to keep humanity and fix its issues and they will provide recommendations on how we should fix each issue
[16:18] <MacSlow> DBO, I'll send you a email summing up status-quo... one sec
[16:18] <DBO> thank you :)
[16:18] <mac_v> lool: hmm.. sounds good :)
[16:18] <lool> mac_v: Concerning the humanity -> human dep, it seems ok to drop the inheritance/dep and copy over the human icons; they didn't mind
[16:19] <mac_v> lool: i asked Kenneth about that... he said sabdfl might mt like copying over the notification icons :(
[16:19] <mac_v> s/mt/not
[16:20] <lool> mac_v: They told they would bring this stuff up with sabdfl tomorrow
[16:20] <mac_v> ok , great
[16:20] <lool> I dont think the copying is an issue
[16:20] <lool> Just the b&w versus color stuff
[16:21] <mac_v> hmm.. ok , the b&w menu icons are fixed... 
[16:21] <mac_v> only the app specific icons in the notification area are in color... all system icons are greyscale
[16:22] <mac_v> lool: thanks for the update :)
[16:22] <lool> np
[16:23] <lool> mac_v: Feel free to release a 0.3 whenever convenient if I still miss some fixes since lass bzr snapshot
[16:23] <lool> I slightly prefer running tagged releases with nice version numbers
[16:25] <mac_v> lool: i expect 0.3 will be released within this week , we are adding new icons to remove human inherits and might not need to copy over those icons either... 
[16:26] <mac_v> lool: also could you confirm which icons the design team would like to use for notify-osd ? 
[16:26] <mac_v> human ones or ...
[16:27] <DBO> MacSlow, it occurs to me you may not actually know my email. Jassmith@gmail.com
[16:27] <MacSlow> DBO, I have it already
[16:28]  * DBO flattered :P
[16:28] <MacSlow> the magic of seaching mailing-lists in evolution :)
[16:29] <MacSlow> Name-completion is a nice thing in evo
[16:29] <lool> mac_v: It's a bit late to ask me to raise that to them   :-(
[16:30] <lool> mac_v: Is there a bug about the choice of icon for notify-osd?
[16:30] <lool> mac_v: If not please file one now and I'll send it to them
[16:32] <mac_v> lool: hmm... there is no bug about the choice , either way we'd be doing the notification-* icons... just wanted to know if it is allowed to be used in the default theme  :)
[16:32] <lool> mac_v: Sorry can you be more specific?  Use what in the default theme?
[16:33]  * lool doens't understand
[16:36] <mac_v> lool: about the use of the humanity's notify-osd icons...since we would be doing it in Humanity's style... but the wiki specs> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Icon < mention the style for the icons, which is how it was done in Human. so was wondering if it is allowed for the default theme to differ from the specs.
[16:47] <lool> mac_v: Ok is it reasonnable to consider changing this just before karmic release, well into UI freeze, or can it wait until lucid?
[16:47] <lool> mac_v: In all cases, if you like you can file a bug on this against humanity and I'll mention it to the DUX folks
[16:48] <mac_v> lool: now i didnt understand...  "can it wait until lucid?" do you mean not making these icons in Humanity style?
[16:49] <mac_v> lool: also, i dont think it would be a bug in humanity... [how could we file a bug in Humanity to not make the icons ;p ] ...  it would be a bug in UNR :)
[16:49] <lool> mac_v: Keeping whatever we have right now
[16:50] <mac_v> ah... ok
[16:50] <lool> mac_v: You could file a bug against humanity to request switching to new notification area icons, then request approval, then either wontfix it or fix it
[16:51] <lool> Given that the change would happen in humanity-icon-theme, it's the proper place to file a bug; but you could say it should be filed in ubuntu, not upstream
[16:51] <lool> anyway this is minor; any bug will do
[21:36] <DanRabbit1> Anybody around to take a look at some icons really quick?
[21:57] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: ;)
[21:57] <DanRabbit1> http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/UbuntuOne/V3/
[21:57] <DanRabbit1> It's the UbuntuOne icons I'm doing
[21:57] <DanRabbit1> what do you think?
[21:58] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: which one?
[21:58] <mac_v> the png?
[21:58] <DanRabbit1> all of them
[21:59] <DanRabbit1> they are emblems
[21:59] <DanRabbit1> except one is a folder
[21:59] <mac_v> ah... ,the folder is a bit more reddish than Human's regular folder
[22:00] <DanRabbit1> nu-uh, because I copied it
[22:00] <DanRabbit1> :D
[22:01] <mac_v> hrmm! ;) wonder why it seems reddish!
[22:01] <mac_v> ;p
[22:01] <DanRabbit1> I don't know
[22:01] <DanRabbit1> your are too used to Humanity :D
[22:02] <mac_v> hehe yeah! , just checked with human icons they seem similar :)
[22:03] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: the synced is not either a complete circle nor an ellipse , thats the off icon , seems weird
[22:04] <DanRabbit1> I had to squish it a little bit, so it wouldn't be super tall ;)
[22:05] <mac_v> and the ends dont fade out smoothly... a more gradual fading would be better
[22:05] <DanRabbit1> mmkay
[22:05] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: the clouds look great :)
[22:05] <DanRabbit1> I think it's just that bottom arrow....
[22:05] <DanRabbit1> I'm glad you like my cloud :D
[22:06] <mac_v> DanRabbit1: where is the silver lining? ;p
[22:06] <DanRabbit1> hehe
[22:06] <DanRabbit1> it's kind of silver...
[22:06] <DanRabbit1> :p