[03:35] <Ahmuck_Sr> hi anybody
[03:48] <HedgeMage> hola
[03:48] <HedgeMage> How are you tonight, Ahmuck_Sr
[03:51] <Ahmuck_Sr> a bit of a headache
[03:51] <Ahmuck_Sr> kinda feeling foggy
[03:52] <Ahmuck_Sr> and you ?
[03:56]  * Ahmuck_Sr nudges HedgeMage
[04:21] <HedgeMage> sorry about that :)
[04:21] <HedgeMage> I was  dragged away for a nummy snack
[04:41]  * Ahmuck_Sr wants a snack
[05:10] <HedgeMage> hehe
[05:30] <Ahmuck_Sr> so, how's the dvd coming along ?
[15:00] <sbalneav> Morning all
[15:41] <alkisg> For non-LTSP labs with new PCs with lots of hard space, would NFS or AFS be a better choice (along with LDAP of course), if we want the users to be able to sit in any workstation and work with their files?
[15:42] <alkisg> (each labs has about 8-12 PCs)
[16:06] <nubae|work> alkisg, try and let us know :-)
[16:06] <alkisg> nubae|work: I'm searching for a way to organize non-ltsp labs... do you have any links that explain how you do things there?
[16:07] <alkisg> E.g. I was thinking the standard NFS / LDAP combination, but like you, some labs here don't have reliable network
[16:08] <alkisg> ...so I'm also thinking of developing scripts that rsync dirs at logon...
[16:08] <sbalneav> I've never used AFS myself.
[16:09] <alkisg> People at #openafs told me it's not really a good choice for home directories. So I guess I can scratch that....
[16:09] <sbalneav> NFS has a laundry list of problems, but they're well known problems. :)
[16:09] <sbalneav> Ah, did they say why?
[16:09] <sbalneav> I use NFS form $HOME
[16:10] <alkisg> Yes, it's mostly for many servers - not much benefit if you use it with one server,
[16:10] <alkisg> and it can only expose 1 volume RW, and lots of others RO, so it won't be able to function as a distributed system between the clients PCs (that's how I had imagined it reading their wiki)
[16:11] <alkisg> sbalneav: do you think NFS would be a reliable choice for small labs? Or should I try to make scripts that use sshfs or rsync?
[16:12] <sbalneav> I have about 120 users running off of an NFS server here.
[16:12] <sbalneav> It's definitely workable.
[16:12] <sbalneav> 2 things you need to make NFS as pain-free as possible.
[16:13] <sbalneav> 1) A kick-*ss IO subsystem on the server.  I.e. 6 disks RAID10 or better, Go SAS SCSI or better.  Don't cheap-out on this.
[16:13] <sbalneav> 2) Gigabit interconnect for the servers.
[16:13] <nubae|work> alkisg, we have a little nfs hack here that makes it much more reliable
[16:13] <sbalneav> Oh?
[16:14] <nubae|work> kind of a a local/server cache addition
[16:14] <sbalneav> Do tell
[16:14] <sbalneav> AAAAHHHHHHGH!
[16:14] <sbalneav> http://radiocontempo.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/hrp_4c_6.jpg
[16:14] <alkisg> sbalneav: each lab here has only 1 server and 8-12 clients. So I guess I don't really need (2)... but,
[16:14] <sbalneav> Japan terrifys me yer again.
[16:14] <ogra> AFS is great but enforces you to have at least three reliable nodes constantly online
[16:14] <sbalneav> yet again
[16:14] <nubae|work> basically just synching based on cron or when the user wants
[16:15] <alkisg> suppose I use NFS and LDAP. And the server crashes. Is there *any* way for the clients to work even with *guest* users?
[16:15] <sbalneav> Sure
[16:15] <nubae|work> I would just use a fatclient ltsp setup then
[16:15] <sbalneav> Just don't put guest users on the NFS share.
[16:15] <nubae|work> with ldap
[16:16] <alkisg> So LDAP and /etc/passwd users can both be used simultaneously? And I just need to put the guest users in /etc/passwd with their homes in /home.local?
[16:16] <sbalneav> Yup
[16:16] <sbalneav> nsswitch.conf handles that.
[16:17] <alkisg> Nice!!!
[16:17] <nubae|work> yeah, with pam tweaking
[16:17] <sbalneav> You can have both local (/etc/passwd + local home) and remote (LDAP + NFS $HOME)
[16:17] <nubae|work> one before the other or the other before the one
[16:18] <sbalneav> Not much, and it's not difficult.
[16:18] <nubae|work> :-)
[16:18] <alkisg> nubae|work: unfortunately, not all labs have gigabit switches. E.g. this year I'm in a lab with core 2 duo / 2 Gb RAM / 400 Gb hd, with a *10 mbps hub* !!!
[16:18] <alkisg> ...so I'd like a non-fat client, non-ltsp choice...
[16:18] <nubae|work> well, its not really ltsp anymore
[16:18] <nubae|work> its more like netbooting
[16:18] <alkisg> No, I'm talking about local ubuntu installations
[16:18] <nubae|work> and booting is fine... it takes it little by little
[16:19] <nubae|work> works fine even over wireless
[16:19] <nubae|work> yes I know
[16:19] <nubae|work> netbooting and installing it then locally
[16:19] <nubae|work> or how were u thinking of cloning before hand?=
[16:19] <alkisg> I just tar'ed the first installation, burned it in a DVD, and untar'ed it... nothing over the network
[16:20] <nubae|work> thats fine, but when u have larger deployments....
[16:20] <nubae|work> if u need to keep burning disks for every little change
[16:20] <alkisg> Sure, I'm *only* looking for a solution for 8-12 PC labs...
[16:20] <nubae|work> ur're gonna find it a pain
[16:20] <nubae|work> ah ok
[16:21] <alkisg> I'll be updating the PCs seperately, not by cloning them again
[16:21] <nubae|work> I had understood 8-12 pcs per lab
[16:21] <alkisg> Yes, e.g. 100 such labs
[16:21] <nubae|work> well clonezilla does a good job too
[16:21] <alkisg> But each one of them will be maintained by a different teacher
[16:21] <nubae|work> well, then definetly look at a solution that involves a netboot initial install... so the the user has a choice on what to install at startup over pxe
[16:22] <nubae|work> if u have that luxury of course
[16:22] <nubae|work> disks break, scratch, etc..
[16:22] <alkisg> nubae|work: with 10 mbps hubs? That would take weeks...
[16:23] <nubae|work> at least... with 100 labs, I would not even consider dvds as an insallation mechanism
[16:23] <nubae|work> nah...
[16:23] <nubae|work> we do it here even with wireless
[16:23] <nubae|work> it doesnt take weeks, especially not on 8.-12 machines ;-)
[16:23] <alkisg> 10 mbps => 1 Mb/sec => 4000 minutes for cloning a 4 Gb installation
[16:23] <alkisg> for *one* pc
[16:24] <ogra> thats a lot of coffee breaks :)
[16:24] <nubae|work> all I can tell u is practically... it doesnt take that long
[16:26] <alkisg> nubae|work: how do you update/upgrade your clients?
[16:26] <nubae|work> net
[16:26] <alkisg> Cloning, or just apt-get update/upgrade etc?
[16:26] <nubae|work> mostly packaged
[16:26] <nubae|work> not cloning
[16:26] <nubae|work> that would indeed be unviable I think
[16:27] <nubae|work> needs to happen in bits
[16:29] <nubae|work> but perhaps a usb stick approach, nand, would be best
[16:30] <nubae|work> but nand has life issues
[19:35] <Ahmuck_Sr> is there Ubuntu for older people?
[20:06] <mhall119|work> regular Ubuntu doesn't work?
[23:43] <Guest8694> Hello, I am having a problem with SCIM that I haven't been able to find help on
[23:43] <Guest8694> I can only use it with Text Editor
[23:44] <Guest8694> It should work with all GTK apps I believe
[23:44] <Guest8694> I was here yesterday, also asked on Ubuntu, and Ubuntu Japan but didn't get anywhere
[23:44] <Guest8694> I hope this sounds familiar to somebody