[00:44] what/where would I file a bug about the karmic live CD? [01:23] MontelEdwards: Ideally on whichever Ubuntu package the bug relates to. People on #ubuntu-bugs might be a good bet for figuring that out if you don't know. As a last resort you could file a bug on Ubuntu in general [01:23] maxb, I already talked to a developer. Thanks anyways === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha [06:43] If you're the owner of a project and you are working on a feature branch, there isn't a better URL than lp:~user/project/feature? [06:44] I mean, for trunk you just use lp:project, but for other branches you need a full URL, that's boring :( [06:44] I'm thinking of cerating a temporary series called 'feature' [06:44] RenatoSilva: The *full* URL is bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~user/project/feature :P [06:45] spiv: ok I want the shorter :) [06:45] RenatoSilva: you can create a temporary series, if you think the feature is going to be around a long time [06:45] RenatoSilva: consider though, that *two* people may be working on the same feature [06:45] so? [06:46] I'm thinking of the series workaround just for avoiding long urls :) [06:47] RenatoSilva: how often are you typing the url in? [06:50] RenatoSilva: I don't type my urls in most of the time [06:50] RenatoSilva: you can set up a default push location for your branches [06:50] RenatoSilva: I create a new local branch and go "bzr push" [06:51] RenatoSilva: and bzr knows it is "lp:~thumper/launchpad/" [06:51] lifeless: yes, I don't keep the branches locally :) [06:51] that's the point guys ^ [06:52] RenatoSilva: what do you mean " I don't keep the branches locally" ? [06:54] * thumper goes for dinner - satay chicken :) [06:55] RenatoSilva: I'm curious to know what you're doing; for me creating series all the time would be much much inconvenience than very occasionally typing in a lp: branch URL. [06:56] What does the "Upstream version" column mean in launchpad, e.g. on [06:56] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt ? [06:57] JesseW: The series on the upstream project that is packaged. [06:58] FWIW, that page looks rather different on edge. [06:58] Right. The new one uses the same concept, but without the words. [06:59] Yeah. [06:59] What's a "series" -- the apt example says "APT main series" -- this doesn't match up to anything I'm familiar with in debian (which certainly may be my ignorance) [06:59] thumper: when I want to work on any lp branch, I bzr branch, change, commit, push and remove local dir [06:59] spiv: ^ [06:59] JesseW: That's a badly configured example. [06:59] JesseW: It doesn't make sense. [07:00] JesseW: Normally it would be something like 'APT 1.x series' [07:00] APT 2.x series [07:00] etc. [07:01] also what is the connection between that and "apt/main" which appears when I look at the details of the link: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/apt/+edit-packaging ? [07:01] apt/main == APT main series [07:01] It is https://launchpad.net/apt/main [07:02] *ahhh* -- thanks, that was my question. [07:02] a series is a focus point for development; its a 'well known branch' [07:02] checking above url. [07:02] They're linked in the new version of the page [07:02] 'sid' is a series (for Debian as a whole) [07:02] RenatoSilva: Do you ever re-use branches, or are you creating new branches each time? [07:03] spiv: no man, I just don't like to keep them locally [07:04] So you have this branch for this particular thing, and you remove the local copy when you finish for the day? [07:04] so, why doesn't it show up in the list I get when I click on "Choose..." on +edit-packaging ? [07:05] wgrant: yes [07:05] JesseW: I have no idea. That doesn't make sense. [07:05] RenatoSilva: Why? [07:06] hm, I suppose I should file a bug -- in launchpad, or? [07:06] wgrant: I don't like to keep them locally [07:06] JesseW: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+filebug [07:07] RenatoSilva: So you would prefer to enter the URL a few times a day rather than keep a branch on your disk? [07:07] yes [07:08] and that's why I want a short url :) [07:09] RenatoSilva: echo 'export short_url=lp:...' >> .bashrc, then use "bzr branch $short_url" :P [07:11] wgrant: filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/433809 thanks for the pointer. [07:11] Launchpad bug 433809 in launchpad-registry "search fails if it contains a slash" [Undecided,New] [07:12] hm just testing: lp:12345 lp#6267 [07:14] Bug #12345 [07:14] hm, interesting new edge homepage [07:14] Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345 [07:14] poolie: Yes... Ubuntu has been knocked off the front. [07:14] And I don't think it's possible to get to the Code front page. [07:17] so is there a way in launchpad to say: this package's upstream package's homepage (or bug-reporting URL) is X? [07:18] and how does this description of a "package series" relate to that? [07:19] wgrant: it's a bit like "the most interesting thing about lp is our blog" [07:19] or "we can't think of something better to put on the homepage yet" [07:19] the second may be true :) [07:20] JesseW: yes, register a project, and then set its homepage and bug tracker [07:20] poolie: That's true. It takes up a bit of space. [07:20] i'm not sure how you link the project and packgae though [07:20] and i don't think they are related [07:22] JesseW: So, packages and projects are very separate entities in Launchpad. You link a package to a project with the form you linked to earlier. [07:22] to a specific "series" within a project, right? [07:22] JesseW: Right. [07:23] It's a bit strange, but it works fairly well. [07:23] and then the project entry in launchpad can link to the actual upstream project, if there is one? [07:24] JesseW: That's right. [07:24] the APT project lp entry doesn't seem to have such links -- how would I go about adding them? [07:26] it doesn't even specify the license: https://launchpad.net/apt [07:26] JesseW: It looks like only mvo can edit that. [07:27] mvo? [07:28] JesseW: Michael Vogt. [07:28] (listed as the maintainer on that page, so he has privileges over the project) [07:28] figured it out a sec after I pressed enter... ;-) [07:28] spiv: haha ok [07:28] spiv: bettern than creating a series :) [07:28] thank you guys, gtg [07:30] sigh; and I presume he has a lot of actual work to do rather than fill in such info. is there any thing I could do to help with getting it filled in? [07:34] JesseW: he'll probably do it soon (when he comes on) to help you [07:35] it's quicker than working around it [07:35] what's your end goal here? === micahg1 is now known as micahg [07:38] following loose strings... [07:39] ...I noticed we had both debian-policy and ubuntu-policy packages, so I looked them up on lp; looking at the lp page for debian-policy, I noticed it had nothing in the upstream version column, so though I might be able to help with that... [07:43] ...tried to figure out what it meant, or find docs to explain it, or how to say: "the upstream of this is the debian package with the same name"; failed; searched The Upstream Report to find a debian based package which did have a upstream link; came across the apt package; tracing the link back noticed that the lp entry for the apt project (which is different from the lp entry for apt-project, oddly) lacked mention of the li [07:43] cense it was under. That's about it. Like I said, following loose strings. [08:13] so, looking at a bug, how do I link to the upstream bug again? [08:14] JesseW: 'Also affects project' [08:14] ah, found it. it's Also affects project [08:42] how to send files to download section? [08:44] RenatoSilva: Add a release in one of your project's series, and add a file in there. [08:45] it requires a milestone [08:45] Well, a release is a released milestone. [08:45] there's no milestone for my releases [08:45] I just release it [08:46] so I just create a copy , ok [08:47] how about release candidates? [08:47] Those are also releases. [08:47] I create milestones for them? [08:47] Yes. [08:47] let me explain my case [08:48] I have sort of RC 1, 2, 3, R4, R5 [08:48] where 1-5 are yyyy.mm.dd [08:48] I jsut want to put the packages into launchpad [08:49] they are currently at another place [08:49] A release is a special case of a milestone. [08:49] so I create milestones for them all, and releases fro r4 and r5? [08:49] So you must have a milestone for each release that needs files. [08:49] Why not a release for RC[123]? [08:49] A release doesn't have to be stable. [08:49] because they were candidates.... [08:50] But do they release files? [08:50] or milestones [08:50] they were beta [08:50] beta versions [08:50] eg. bzr has 2.0rc1, 2.0rc2 releases, and a 2.0 milestone (because it's not out yet) [08:50] but these beta versions were candidate for releasing at that each moment [08:51] so a milestone is just a way of saying "hey our trunk looks nice" [08:51] An alpha release is still a release. [08:52] can't recall what's alpha, worse or better than beta? [08:52] Worse. [08:52] RenatoSilva: It's worse, but it doesn't matter. That's the point. [08:52] Any release is a realsae. [08:52] Alphas, betas, release candidates, final.. whatever. They're all releases. [08:52] so milestones are not release, they're just a way of saying that the trunk is mature??? that 's it? [08:53] You *release* something. You take what you have, and put it out there. That's what a release is. [08:53] RenatoSilva: A milestone can purely a time-based target for development tasks. [08:53] so what are milestones exactly [08:53] s/can/can be/ [08:53] can't get it [08:53] Milestones are... well. milestones. :) It's a point along your development cycle. [08:54] milestones don't generate packages for downloading? [08:54] Right. They have no real meaning in themselves. [08:54] s/cycle/timeline/ I suppose. [08:54] They are just a point in time. [08:54] RenatoSilva: Not magically, no. [08:54] RenatoSilva: A milestone does not imply a release, no. [08:54] An arbitrary point that you assign an arbitrary label to, so you can do things like refer to it in bugs, and create download files for :) [08:54] but I have seen downloads like Eclipse-Galileo-M5 [08:55] RenatoSilva: It's up to the project's managers as to what they want to do. [08:55] If they want to have releases named 'Milestone 5', that's up to them. [08:55] But you can do whatever you want with milestones. [08:55] .. or karmic koala [08:55] RenatoSilva: A milestone /can/ involve a release. It does not /have/ to. [08:56] I thought milestones as worse than RC and better (or equal) than beta [08:56] A milestone isn't necessarily a release. [08:57] Some projects call their intermediate development snapshots 'Milestone N'. Ubuntu calls them 'Alpha N'. It's just a name. [08:58] RenatoSilva: Figuring out if something is a milestone or a release or whatever has NOTHING to do with the quality. [08:58] RenatoSilva: It's about its function. [08:58] RenatoSilva: A milestone is a point in time. You can target bugs and features for milestones, for instance. [08:59] ok [08:59] RenatoSilva: A release is whenever you take what you got and release it. Even if it's alpha, beta, milestone, wibble, wobble, release candidate, final, bugfix, foo, bar, or whatever type of release it is. [08:59] but if is release or not does have to do with quality [08:59] NO! [08:59] It still a release. [09:00] release stuff must be good , that's why we have e.g. feature freezes!! [09:00] Even if it sucks, you've still released it. [09:00] release != release [09:00] RenatoSilva: You seem to be talking about a *stable* release. eg. 1.0 [09:00] alpha releases are still releases. [09:00] Right. [09:00] That's why they have "release" in their name :) [09:00] by releasing you assume it's better quality than before :) even if not true :) [09:00] wgrant: stable releas eyes [09:00] No. That's a stable release. [09:00] Not necessaritly. [09:01] Not a release in general. [09:01] but usualy release just means stable release [09:01] Not in this case. [09:01] RenatoSilva: not necessarily; sometimes people release known buggy software just for the sake of getting new features tested, or whatever. [09:01] unstable releases you call beta or milestone [09:01] A Launchpad release could be a stable release. But it could also be an alpha release, a beta release, a release-of-the-day... [09:01] RenatoSilva: The name. does. not. matter. [09:02] ok [09:02] RenatoSilva: Again: The quality of the release does not determine whether it's a release or not. [09:02] RenatoSilva: some projects do nightly releases, where there's no claim regarding quality (maybe it won't even build!), just that it's current. [09:03] what's the diff between code release tarball and installer file? is the former source code, or is the latter .exe installers? [09:03] RenatoSilva: Yes, pretty much. [09:04] I just mean that --usually-- people use release as short for stable releases, and beta/milestones/candidates for unstable, maybe not in lauchpad ok [09:04] soren: how about if I have a zip as install? [09:04] soren: what to use? [09:04] What's in the zip [09:05] ? [09:05] Source code? [09:05] soren: not an automated installer, but not exactly "the" source code (even if actually there's no bin package -- it's python) [09:06] Don't know. [09:06] it is both source code and "bin" package in one [09:06] RenatoSilva: You're asking about the "file type" Launchpad asks you for? Just choose whatever will best match your users' expectations. [09:06] I'm asking what to fill in [09:07] code release tarball or installer file [09:07] it's unclear their meanings [09:07] Well, if you wanted to download this file, which would you expect it to be called? [09:07] If you're unsure, you may as well just flip a coin :) [09:07] I don't know [09:07] that's why I ask [09:07] ahahhshs [09:08] Because your users will be unsure too, so it won't make much difference which you choose ;) [09:08] * RenatoSilva doesn't have pidgin's /flip atm :D [09:09] It's kind of hard to give you a good answer when you can't properly explain what that zip file contains. [09:09] the bin package [09:10] but OH it's not bin, it's python! [09:10] so bin == source code [09:10] please help me here [09:10] https://launchpad.net/moin-solenoid/trunk/2009.8.12 [09:10] may I change Solenoid Theme 2009.8.12 to just Solenoid Theme [09:10] and add all versions there [09:11] *currently I have jsut one) [09:12] I don't want to create 4 milestones + 4 versions, each one with one single file [09:12] may I call the milestones all '2009'? [09:28] hum... https://launchpad.net/moin-solenoid/trunk [09:28] done [09:29] ** having minor codebrowse issues atm, chasing.... ** === sayakb_ is now known as sayakb [09:34] thanks everybody [09:37] when you fill milestone on bug report, is the bug happening on that milestone or is it planned to be solved at it? [09:37] RenatoSilva: The latter. [09:38] wgrant: so I always have to deactivate released milestones? [09:38] You don't, but it would make sense. Releasing a milestone normally deactivates by default, IIRC. [09:39] wgrant: e.g. latest release is 2009.8.18, it already happened [09:39] wgrant: I don't have any future milestones in mind, as we say here I "let the life take me anywhere" :) [09:40] wgrant: so I must deactivate it...ok thanks! [09:43] a series is like CVS branches right? [09:43] wgrant: depends on the project actually ;) [09:43] the idea it to support old version jsut like in CVS maintenance branches right? [09:43] wgrant: scratch that [09:43] [I misread] [09:43] *is to [09:44] the idea is to support old released versions just like in CVS maintenance branches right? [09:44] That's one use. [09:45] v1, then v2, then oh some peopl still use v1, so we create a v1 maintenance branch for supporting those people [09:45] Right. [09:45] what other use could series have? [09:45] So I have my 1.x branch. It would probably have 1.0a1, 1.0a2, 1.0b1, 1.0rc1, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 releases. [09:46] s/branch/series [09:46] That series has my 1.x branch associated. [09:46] so series separate major versions? [09:46] I don't know. [09:46] Whatever the project owner decides. [09:46] Some series of releases. [09:46] well it seems that it's just maintenance [09:47] In most cases, yes. [09:47] so I have trunk [09:47] I just have to create anotehr series if [09:47] someone using old versions convince me of that, right? [09:47] You don't ever *have* to. But it is probably a good idea. [09:48] maybe I have [09:48] becasue how will I deliver the fix for the old version user? [09:48] Why do you need a series to do that? [09:49] humm, I could just add a new release + download file for that milestone, right? [09:49] Right. [09:49] But it is a good idea to keep seperate release series, particularly if your project is large. [09:50] a bit condfusing [09:51] it seems that trunk here is not exactly the same idea of head in cvs [09:51] so don't do it [09:51] trunk != HEAD [09:51] trunk == MAIN [09:51] I wouldn't draw analogies to CVS. [09:51] trunk.revno == HEAD [09:51] CVS is not the best thought out of the world's inventions. [09:52] so why does the default description of trunk is this: [09:52] The "trunk" series represents the primary line of development rather than a stable release branch. This is sometimes also called MAIN or HEAD. [09:52] it is describing maintenance branches [09:52] because CVS users are often confused about what CVS does [09:52] RenatoSilva: because what people call things is not always accurate ;) [09:52] and say 'HEAD' when they mean 'MAIN' [09:52] yeah, head can mean last rev or main branch [09:53] in this case main branch [09:54] actually, HEAD never means a branch, except when its misused :) [09:54] which is the point ;) [09:54] it seems to me that the choice is create maintenance branches as 1) series or 2) personal branches [09:54] lifeless: maybe I ask in #cvs later :) [09:54] RenatoSilva: you can create series for them [09:54] They are different concepts. [09:55] A series can be linked to a branch. [09:55] if you want folk to find them, I would create a series. [09:55] can, not should? [09:55] * wgrant dines. [09:56] RenatoSilva: its your project; who are we to say what you should do? [09:56] so on a date-based versioning like mine, how would I call the series, by month or year or season or what :) ? [09:57] lifeless: ok so I want a coffee with milk please :) [09:57] how would you like to call it? [09:58] 2009.8.18 is the latest version [09:58] will you do maintenance releases ? [09:58] so will there be a 2008.8.18.1 ? [09:58] likely not, but it's possible [09:58] and is 2009.8.18 released from trunk? [09:58] lifeless: if someone had a problem, I'd ask him to update to the latest version, and apply the fix on it [10:00] I've just created the project from a personal single branch, trunk is just --the-- branch, so yes, 2009.8.18 was released from trunk [10:01] lifeless: I just think that new versions are better than old ones, it's not a big project you know [10:02] lifeless: so if new versions are desirable, I like to make users migrate to new versions rather than maintaining it... [10:04] so why would you want maintenance series ? [10:04] if you're not planning on doing maintenance releases... [10:05] it's because of my versioning, it's plain, not hierarchical [10:06] you can imagine big diffs between 3.4 and 4.6, but not between dates [10:06] not --necessarily--- [10:06] so? [10:08] imagine I'm using normal versioning 1.2.3, where .3 is maintenance, so I'd create trunk, 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 series right? [10:08] then in series 1.0 I'd have all 1.0.x milestones [10:08] and in 1.1 all 1.1.x ms and so forth right [10:09] but how about this: [10:09] you put all milestones and releases under trunk series anyway [10:10] and just add a milestone + release for each new version you want to deliver (new features from latest version, fixes for old versions) [10:11] so my point is, if you can put it all in one place (series), what is the specific technical reason/advantage of cerating other separate series? [10:12] other than having a nice view of major versions [11:14] huh?? tried pulling down launchpad rocketfuel-setup ,, bzr says needs version 1.16, i only have 1.13, but i'm on intrepid.. is this normal? [11:15] NET||abuse: Bazaar has a quick release schedule, and Ubuntu doesn't package new major releases. [11:15] dang, so i need to add the specific up to date ppa repo? [11:15] NET||abuse: You can do that. It's no big deal. http://bazaar-vcs.org/Download [11:16] is it safe enough to dot hat considering several other projects i'm working on have been on 1.13, and i need to keep supporting. [11:16] NET||abuse: there's a bit of a bug in rocketfuel-setup at the moment. If it ends up erroring, poke me and I'll tell you how to work around it. [11:16] NET||abuse: Bazaar's good about backwards compatibility. [11:16] It's excellent about it, in fact. It's perfectly safe to upgrade. [11:17] It won't silently make your other projects incompatible with older versions. [11:18] ahh, well that's good. [11:18] :) [11:18] just getting that key installed now. [11:18] ..., hmm, taking it's time getting key. [11:18] thanks everybody [11:19] ahh, keyserver down? [11:19] anyone else able to get the ppa key? http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0xECE2800BACF028B31EE3657CD702BF6B8C6C1EFD&op=index [11:19] just timing out for me. [11:20] NET||abuse: Indeed. Let's poke a sysadmin. [11:21] cool [11:21] can i watch? like waking bears in winter.. :P [11:22] you prod them and their mass arrises in a blur of hair and rage... [11:22] at least that's what the sysadmin in my last job was like. [11:23] in fairness he was a great guy. [11:23] anyway.. blah blah... keyserver work dang it. [11:25] NET||abuse: For now use http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0xECE2800BACF028B31EE3657CD702BF6B8C6C1EFD&op=index instead. [11:25] Yay for keyserver networks. [11:25] hmm, ok [11:25] that's taking it's time too,, ahhh there it goes. [11:33] hmm, had to remove bzr-rebase{a} bzr-svn{a} python-subvertpy{u [11:34] NET||abuse: There are new versions of those around in PPAs, if you need them. The versions in the Ubuntu archive use the API of the older bzr version, so won't work with the new bzr. [11:35] hmmm bzr: Depends: python (< 2.6) but 2.6.2-0ubuntu1 is installed [11:36] yeh, i can't get bzr to update beyond 1.13.1 [11:37] NET||abuse: There's no python2.6 in Intrepid... [11:37] .... in interpid? hmm, where's my python coming ffrom then??? [11:38] wait,, i'm on jaunty, not intrepid. [11:38] haha. [11:38] sorry [11:38] still. [11:38] NET||abuse: What was the line you added to your sources.list? [11:39] I suspect if you replace 'intrepid' with 'jaunty' there, it will work. [11:39] deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/bzr/ppa/ubuntu intrepid main [11:39] yes, it would.. [11:39] :P [11:39] i'm tired.. long weekend.. barcamp took it out of me. [11:40] brain sore,, alchimahol hurt it. [11:41] Heh. [11:42] hmm,,,, now bzr-svn: Depends: bzr (< 1.18~) but 1.18-1~bazaar1~jaunty1 is installed. [11:42] i'm using bzr-svn for one project i work on from time to time. [11:42] There's a PPA for that. [11:42] * wgrant finds. [11:42] haha, [11:43] yikes [11:43] too many ppa's [11:44] NET||abuse: In fact, there's a new version of bzr-svn in the ~bzr PPA. What happens if you try that? [11:44] (a simple 'apt-get install bzr-svn' should do it) [11:45] i've been trying that,, no joy. [11:45] Hmmmmmmm. [11:46] one sec,, i was using aptitude , not apt-get [11:46] and can't try right now,, launchpad is downloading. [11:46] NET||abuse: No, that's fine. [11:46] NET||abuse: Looks like that version of bzr-svn is still too out of date. Argh. [11:46] tumm teeee tummm. gonna take some time yh :) [11:46] oh, bzr-svn is out of lockstep with latest bzr. [11:46] Oh yes. It's a fairly big tree. [11:47] It'll have to download a couple of hundred megabytes. [11:47] yikes.. [11:47] And then lots of dependencies after that. [11:47] (although it will probably crash before it finishes grabbing the deps; that's easy to fix, fortunately) [11:47] anyway to mirror that, i'm setting up on my local machine to play, then i'm gonna installl on a vm test development platform for configuration testing.. then again on live development machine,, i'd say the test dev platform is gonna require 3 or more runthroughs to check out fully. [11:48] arrg?? libapache2-mod-php5 is to be removed? [11:48] What are you planning to do with LP? [11:49] Not sure about that one. I don't have PHP installed. [11:49] working on using it as a code repository in work, and tempt some of the development teams into trying it out. [11:49] they're svn centric [11:50] You can't easily do that. See the fourth paragraph of https://dev.launchpad.net/LaunchpadLicense [11:50] so gonna coax them in to bzr and launchpad, set them up with heavy checkout's centralized branch workflow to start, in a shared repository so they can branch locally for local feature developments [11:51] wgrant, just change the logo's? [11:51] NET||abuse: All of the images. [11:53] well, i'll have to try if i look to deploy for actual dev team use. [11:54] i'm usually pretty good at filtering through images on sites. i just need to strip out the image files from the launchpad source and re-create them [11:54] i have a good deal of experience doing things like that with turbo gears or django sites. [11:55] that's a bit of a pain in the butt.. can't use launchpad in that way by default.. [11:56] would be nice to submit an image and icons set that "knock yourself out" licence as an option for launchpad. [11:56] Part of the point of Launchpad is that there's only one. Much of its value is in the cross-project collaboration possibilities. [11:56] So running your own is really not a good idea. [11:56] how so? [11:57] it's a nice interface to a project management, pqm and code repository backend, how is that ever not useful in some way? [11:58]