[01:00] poolie: ping [01:00] hullo spiv [01:00] i have a call with francis soon [01:00] how are you today? [01:01] Pretty good, despite a test failure. It's fairly shallow, I think... [01:02] So I'll have this patch up shortly (to cut out two vfs calls on incremental push). [01:02] I haven't decided what to tackle next... [01:03] morning [01:04] igc: good morning. [01:04] hi spiv, poolie [01:06] spiv, yay [01:07] how about looking at the systematic cleanup patch? [01:07] i haven't written any code [01:07] or review the critical queue [01:07] also, thanks for the update [01:07] That bug with mv screwing up the WT state could stand tackling... [01:09] Yeah, looking at cleanup does sound good. [01:09] fullermd: be my guest ;) [01:10] Yeah, that would be the opposite of happening... [01:10] fullermd: I very much agree, but I'm hoping someone with at least a tiny amount of familiarity with that code looks at that before I have to :) [01:18] I want to put a tag value (containing current version) for each single text file in my app. Is it bad pratice? It's similar to those $xxx$ tags in cvs [01:19] is locations.conf only respected when there is also a bzr branch? when i run bzr whoami i see the default, event if i'm below the location specified in locations.conf but not yet in the branch [01:21] bug 276201 [01:21] Launchpad bug 276201 in bzr "locations.conf is only consulted when there's a branch" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276201 [01:24] changed to "This bug affects me too" :-) [01:25] while it's probably not a real problem it gives the *impression* of not being reliable :/ [01:26] It could be a problem in some cases. [01:36] and there seems to be an issue when setting the name through whoami it writes to bazzar.conf, but then when displaying it read form locations.conf again [01:51] That's by design. [01:54] i have some bzr repos on a feisty server. i now want to migrate that stuff over to a jaunty server. how do i transfer this without losing history/logs? [01:54] pmatulis: rsync ? [01:55] lifeless: k, so no compatibility issues? [01:55] jaunty [01:55] jaunty's bzr can read back to the dawn of time [01:56] you might want to upgrade to a newer repository format to improve performance, but thats orthogonal [01:56] and best done separately IMO [01:58] so if my directory structure is /home/bzr/{project1,project2} i just rsync/scp over /home/bzr? [01:58] lifeless: ^ [01:59] yup [01:59] how do i change format afterwards? [01:59] bzr upgrade [02:00] there are docs about this for 2.0 [02:00] jaunty is kindof old - you might like to install 2.0rc2 from the beta ppa :) [02:00] heh, latest crack [02:02] no, thats in the nightlies ppa :) [02:02] lifeless: why are they called nightlies, anyway? [02:02] because they happen every night [02:02] they don't seem to have nearly the regularity that the term suggests ... [02:03] no? [02:04] since i have +archive/ppa in apt's sources it says it will remove bzr-svn when i upgrade from bzr 1.17 -> 1.18 :( [02:04] well, I've noticed times when the same one was up for periods that were probably more than two days ... [02:04] entire weekends, possibly! [02:04] they are generated nightly, and only when trunk has changed [02:05] possibly more than that [02:05] Maybe it's a statement of tolerance rather than periodicity. They wilt and sublimate when exposed to sunlight. [02:05] but maybe that's just when nobody manages to land anything for a bit ... [02:38] how do i define the default host & path for a repository again? [02:38] lifeless: oh, and re in-branch-p thing, I never said I thought it was easy [02:38] I just figured it would be nice to have an easy-to-find bug ... [02:39] SamB_XP: sure ;) [02:39] pmatulis: what do you mean? [02:41] lifeless: enter /home/bzr/project and then do 'bzr push' without specifying a remote host & path [02:41] pmatulis: bzr push --remember [02:41] ah yeah, that's it [02:42] can never... remember [02:42] pmatulis: lol [02:42] * SamB_XP is a bit tired [03:18] Doggone it, I keep forgetting to try to figure out how to get bzr-svn to work with svn 1.6 when I have time for it... [03:23] * spiv -> lunch === davidstrauss_ is now known as davidstrauss [04:32] thumper: hiya [04:32] hi [04:37] * igc lunch [05:16] spiv, is there a bug for the desire to translate urls back into ones that make sense to the user on the way back out? [05:16] like we talked about the other day [05:16] thumper: ^^ [05:17] jelmer: ping [05:19] poolie: not an overall one AFAIK [05:19] poolie: there's at least one for specific symptoms, like the message that suggests break-lock FOO. [05:30] maybe we should have one? [05:35] Yeah, seems like a reasonable bug to have. [05:35] Well, reasonable bug *report* to have ;) [05:36] :) [05:48] poolie: I need to pop out for a bit; if you need me please SMS ? [07:37] hi all [07:41] hi vila [07:41] vila, i'm writing a little script to test if the ppa is selfconsistent [07:41] i hope that doesn't overlap with your stuff at all? [07:42] hmm, I can't see any stuff I'm working on that can overlap that... [07:43] poolie: what was you thinking about ? [07:43] err were [07:43] i want to see if the packages in the ppa simultaneously install into a clean environment, and pass their selftests [07:43] ha, ok, mmm [07:44] and you do that how ? With a chroot ? oooh, that could be done on a slave is what you mean ! [07:44] hi vila [07:44] jelmer around? [07:44] hmm, a dedicated one since that requires system-wide install... [07:45] poolie: if you keep that in mind, your script may be *used* in a slave but, no, I didn't think about that kind of setup [07:45] vila, so, i'll continue with this script and then maybe later we can run it in babune [07:45] poolie: so how do you plan to do that ? [07:46] poolie: sounds good [07:46] I'd like to have the version (tag?) on each file of the branch. Is it a good idea? What's the best way of doing it? [07:46] So that end-users can identify sofware version in each file [07:47] it's in pursuit of bug 434412 etc [07:47] Launchpad bug 434412 in bzr-svn "no bzr-svn release compatible with bzr 2.0.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434412 [07:47] vila, https://edge.launchpad.net/ppa-smoketest [07:47] igc, so bzr-svn is in fact ok in the windows installers? [07:47] did jam just ship a snapshot? [07:48] poolie: he updated subverty to 0.6.9 which I understand fixed some issues [07:49] poolie: may be you can mention that in a reply to my babune metronome mail, just to keep track... [07:49] poolie: it looks like Jelmer tagged bzr-svn 1.0.0rc1 19 hours ago [07:50] vila, good idea [07:51] poolie: I think we're down to the wire wrt karmic: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule [07:52] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetaFreeze [07:52] it's definitely good to get it in now though [07:52] poolie: so I'd be keen to see 2.0.0 core announced "internally" so we can begin the final round of packaging testing [07:52] let's do it [07:53] vila, why did you send the babune mail only internally? i think it can be public? [07:53] also, um [07:53] this mail is at risk of being ignored because [07:53] it's regular, and it doesn't make clear up front what you want people to do if anything... [07:54] like if you want to call for builds, do it separately [07:54] poolie: you're right [07:58] ok, pushed and (pre)announcement sent [07:59] Wait, this sounds like 2.0 going gold. [07:59] * davidstrauss cheers [08:00] hold on a sec [08:00] i meant the test scripts [08:00] but i am going to push the button on 2.0.0 now [08:00] :-D [08:05] * tonyyarusso waits for a link to release notes to check out new features [08:05] thanks everybody! [08:05] all the features are in rc2 [08:05] it's just a version bump [08:05] but rc2 has great features :) [08:05] poolie: Yeah, but that doesn't mean there was a concise listing of them all pretty on the web page. [08:07] http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/test/en/release-notes/bzr-2.0rc2.html [08:07] igc is it just me or are the fonts weird on that page? [08:08] ah, cool [08:08] poolie: so the plan is for a fixed length of time between gold and final announcement, yes? [08:08] i think so [08:08] poolie: if so, best to make that clear in your email [08:08] i think it will be gated by getting the website adequately deployed [08:09] however, it can start going into karmic today [08:09] if they have a version of bzr-svn they can build [08:09] right [08:09] poolie: fonts are ok for me on that page [08:09] can you find out which version the windows installers shipped and comment on that bug? [08:10] poolie: the window installer with include 1.0.0rc1 now that it's out [08:10] poolie: I need to check with jelmer re the dependencies once he's around [08:12] poolie, igc: the previous/next buttons are reversed on the release notes pages IMHO [08:14] vila: nice catch. I wonder whether it's wonder putting the last release last to fix that? [08:14] s/wonder/worth/ [08:15] igc: No, I think getting to the last first is right (so to speak :), but from there, when I click previous, I want the previous version... [08:16] vila: those links are provided by sphinx fwiw === poolie changed the topic of #bzr to: Bazaar version control system | 2.0.0 code frozen! | try https://answers.launchpad.net/bzr for more help | http://bazaar-vcs.org | http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ [08:26] friday should be enough time, but we could even have less perhaps... [08:26] i guess friday will allow for some testing [08:34] spiv, how about lunch tomorrow? [08:38] poolie: sounds good; north or south? [08:43] poolie: the 2.0.0 branch is? [08:43] bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr-pqm/bzr/2.0.0/? === vila changed the topic of #bzr to: Bazaar version control system | 2.0.0 code frozen! | try https://answers.launchpad.net/bzr for more help | http://bazaar-vcs.org | http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ [09:03] "The Bazaar team decided that 2.0 will be a long-term supported release, [09:03] with bugfix-only 2.0.x releases based on it, continuing for at least six [09:03] months or until the following stable release." [09:04] six months is not "long-term" [09:04] long-term implies a few years at least [09:06] Toksyuryel: it's long term for a crew that used to do releases monthly [09:06] * igc dinner [09:07] AfC: I am aware of this, but people who haven't been following the project for this long aren't likely to understand that. Just sayin' there's an issue with the phrasing. [09:17] spiv, north, my bolt saga continues :) [09:17] Toksyuryel: good point [09:18] maybe we should just say a supported stable release? [09:18] poolie: (as it happens, I agree with Toksyuryel) [09:18] alternative phrasing welcome [09:19] poolie: (but the bigger question is going to be how much backporting bzr hackers learn to do) [09:19] i know people would like "supported for the next five years" and i'd like to give it to them, but that would be a big first step [09:19] poolie: (as many have observed, that'll be a new idea for [us, /me waving the moral support banner, er] you) [09:19] we could probabyl commit to a year [09:19] poolie: we're not there yet [09:19] 6 mo on this is good [09:20] the real point is having your stable (and backported to) release synced with a certain prominent distro [09:20] poolie: ok, see you tomorrow then :) [09:20] and others hopefully [09:20] :) [09:20] maybe we could get bzr-stable etc into gentoo? [09:20] or bzr=2.0? [09:20] i forget the syntax [09:21] * beuno waves at poolie [09:21] or rather, the conventions [09:21] hello [09:21] well, a) I'm not using Gentoo at the moment, [09:21] and b) 2.0rc1 was in, but it got rehidden. Once you guys actually do 2.0 for real I'm sure it'll be there pretty fast. Someone seems to be packaging it rather quickly. [09:22] they can do it now [09:22] * AfC has taken a deep breath and is trying Ubuntu again. #2. The experience has not been overwhelming. I really hope that's just because I'm using Karmic [big mistake, apparently], but I would have hoped this close to release it wouldn't have been so unstable :( [09:22] the only remaining bit is shouting [09:22] poolie: you've cut a 2.0.0 tarball? [09:23] (i have to go soon) [09:23] [they need that] [09:23] (me too) [09:23] * poolie waves towards the top of the window [09:23] and to https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr/2.0/2.0.0 [09:23] terminology "code frozen" != "released" [09:23] IMHO [09:23] released == code frozen && announced [09:23] we're trying to separate them [09:23] =yeah [09:23] it seems worthwhile but is confusing [09:23] not sure I think it's going to pay [09:24] much as the theory seems good [09:24] mm [09:24] it's more a "what's in my PPA" & "what's in my distro" thing [09:24] we'll try it a bit more then decide [09:24] it wouldn't have been an issue if we weren't releasing so often, I think [09:24] the question is can we get people to package it within a short bounded period of time [09:24] yeah [09:24] I followed the argument. [09:24] worth a try [09:25] s/argument/cogent debate/ [09:25] Reading bzr email is what I do instead of a paying job [09:25] ahem [09:26] good day bzr [09:26] hello bialix [09:27] ramen's calling [09:27] good night... [09:27] hi poolie, congrat to 2.0 gold [09:27] thanks [09:27] i hope you find the installers good [09:27] poolie: parting thought "release" and then later "available"==tell people [09:27] {shrug} [09:27] poolie: no way for me [09:28] == "bzr 2.0 now available in Ubuntu" & "bzr 2.0 now available in Gentoo" etc [09:30] igc: hello, me a bit busy today, will build installers either tonight or tomorrow [09:30] AfC, poolie : That may be an interesting alternative: send announce when source tarball is cut, then followup with shorter announce for each platform availability... [09:31] Well, Network Manager isn't working for 3G cards in Karmic right now, so as I will be mobile I won't have internet access for the rest of the night. So see you all tomorrow sometime. [09:31] vila: {shrug} I realize it's all bikeshedding at this point, but "upstream released" and "available in..." seem to be more understandable in a distro driven world [09:31] AfC: ouch, I hope you have an alternate network access [09:31] vila [09:32] nope. [09:32] AfC: yeah, always apply your regular filters when it comes to correct wording from *me* :-D [09:32] vila: which is why I'm so incredibly excited to have just switched to Ubuntu. The crashing on logout is a nice touch, too [09:33] * AfC bears with it :) [09:33] see you tomorrow === vila changed the topic of #bzr to: Bazaar version control system | 2.0.0 code frozen! | try https://answers.launchpad.net/bzr for more help | http://bazaar-vcs.org | http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ [09:57] bialix: ok - thanks for letting me know [09:59] igc: got your mail about development.html, the same delay applied here as well. sorry [10:02] dear core devs, can you look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/qbzr/+bug/434034/comments/14 [10:02] Launchpad bug 434034 in qbzr ""'dict' object has no attribute 'encode'" error on commit" [High,Confirmed] [10:02] does it ring the bells? [10:02] it seems like critical bug in 2.0rc2 for me [10:03] poolie? vila? lifeless? [10:06] I noticed something funny with bazaar. I had a file in a repository, which I deleted (unix rm) and then, in its place, I put a new revision of the file. Upon running "bzr status", it claimed that the file had been deleted. Does bzr store the inode of files in the repository? [10:08] DaffyDuck_: no it doesn't store inodes [10:08] Hmm.. Any idea how it knew the file was "deleted"? [10:09] do you see new file in unknown? [10:09] do you commit after delete? [10:09] DaffyDuck_: bzr will detect missing files and assume they're been deleted [10:09] DaffyDuck_: most probably you didn't create the new file in the same place or you changed its name (case sensitive issue ?) [10:10] bialix: was is critical there ? The reconfigure bug ? [10:10] Hmm.. It was a while back, but I'm going to try it again and see if I remember correctly. [10:10] DaffyDuck_: so a commit before putting a new version there will end the lifetime of that file [10:10] vila: reconfigure [10:11] bialix: is it a regression ? [10:11] DaffyDuck_: as bialix suggests, maybe the file wasn't put back with exactly the same case or something like that? [10:11] vila: I can test with 1.18.1 [10:13] poolie: what branch should I be building the 2.0.0 docs from? lp:~mbp/bzr/prepare-2.0.0 isn't overly official. :-) [10:13] vila: 1.18 produce the same error [10:13] so it's not a regression [10:13] Yeah, you guys are right -- I must have made some mistake. I'm glad, because I was mighty confused by the behavior. [10:13] it's not regression from 1.18 then? it's old bug? nice [10:14] how wonderful [10:14] workaround for bug 434034 require reconfigure from light to heavy checkout, but this is impossible because of reconfigure bug [10:14] Launchpad bug 434034 in qbzr ""'dict' object has no attribute 'encode'" error on commit" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434034 [10:17] bialix: that's often the case with workarounds... [10:17] vila: they discover new bugs? [10:17] like a domino effect? [10:17] yes [10:17] (no smile there) [10:18] * bialix bbl [10:18] more precisely, when *searching* a workaround, you often encounter either related or unknown bugs [10:19] bialix: and doing that search remotely is even worse of course... [10:19] s/worse/harder, more prone to encounter unexpected bugs, etc/ === doko_ is now known as doko === mrevell is now known as mrevellunch === SamB_XP_ is now known as SamB_XP [12:34] lifeless: pong [12:34] igc: pong [12:39] hi [12:40] jelmer: you have mail :) [12:41] lifeless: how do you know it wasn't eated? === mrevellunch is now known as mrevell [13:07] Oooh, my shiny little 2.0.0.tar.gz... my own... my... preciousssss.... [13:07] Will you share? [13:08] 2.0 going gold [13:08] Thief! Lo-lan-do! Curse them; we HATES them! [13:09] Okay, okay. See if I care, I'm on my way to fecth my new motorbike anyway, you can keep your poxy 2.0. [13:10] hi jelmer [13:11] jelmer: I wanted your advice on what things to package in the window installer [13:12] igc: Hi [13:13] igc: For 2.x, the latest versions of bzr-svn (1.0.0rc1) and subvertpy (0.6.9) [13:13] jelmer: thanks [13:14] jelmer: fyi, if you visit http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr-windows-installers/trunk/files/head%3A/tools/win32/ [13:14] the buildout.cfg file in there is the magic one for configuring the windows installer [13:15] jelmer: I'll make the change now for bzr-svn 1.0.0rc1 [13:17] igc: thanks [13:18] igc: can I just commit updates to the version there or is there a review process required for that? [13:18] jelmer: Any thoughts on my latest merge request (for loggerhead)? [13:18] jelmer: you can commit directly there [13:19] jelmer: *and* it would be great if you may the change [13:19] igc: ok [13:19] bah [13:20] * lifeless regenerates loom 2.0 tarball [13:20] jelmer: as well as bzr-svn, getting the right branches & tags for bzr-rewrite and subvertpy is clearly importantly too [13:20] * jelmer nods [13:24] igc: https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr-loom/2.0/2.0 [13:24] too, btw === Pilky_ is now known as Pilky [13:26] lifeless: do you think loom ought to be included in the windows installer? [13:26] igc: up to you; AFAIK there aren't any issues with it, and folk may want to use it. [13:26] by issues I mean 'things that affect non users' [13:27] lifeless: we've been pretty conservative wrt putting plugins in so far [13:27] lifeless: I'd like to bundle a heap more but ... [13:28] I got 'bzr selftest loom Loom' passing and did some user testing beyon [13:28] I wonder whether we need a simple way of disabling/enabling installed ones first [13:28] d [13:28] its up to you [13:29] lifeless: my current feeling is we ought to keep the status quo for 2.0.0 and add more (loom, fastimport, etc.) in 2.0.1 [13:32] Lo-lan-do: +1 on your patch [13:32] Lo-lan-do: should I push it or will you? [13:35] How do I get ie http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Evcs-imports/drupal/main/ into my bzr-project/www directory ??? [13:36] hmm, i accidently set my push location in a WT to be another directory under the same directory call "parent" instead of pushing to :parent,, how do you override the default push location? [13:36] NET||abuse: push with --remember or edit .bzr/branch/branch.conf [13:37] jelmer, ahh, thanks. [13:38] I'm reading http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/user-guide/index.html#setting-up-a-central-repository but I want to pull in an external resource into a subdir :( [13:41] sta [13:41] w [13:41] qr [13:41] * fullermd boggles. [13:41] Stupid mouse. [13:42] * fullermd wanders off to beat it. [13:45] Is my question stupid? [13:46] jelmer: why you removed Subversion page from wiki? [13:46] bialix: ? [13:47] ngnp: pull in external resource? you want svn:externals? [13:47] jelmer: http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrForeignBranches/Subversion [13:47] there no more this page exists [13:47] bialix: I haven't removed anything [13:47] of course, maybe b-v.o moin moin don;t like me [13:47] does this URL works for you? [13:48] bialix: no ... I have brz-project/www ... I need to pull ie http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Evcs-imports/drupal/main/ into my bzr-project/www directory [13:48] ngnp: you can't pull, but you can merge [13:48] bialix: that is a bzr repo to? [13:48] into a subdir? [13:48] bialix: it shows empty for me; I think its a moin cache bug [13:49] because the page history is there [13:49] and its not emptied [13:49] hmm, hit ctrl-shift-f5, now its gone :P [13:49] jelmer, lifeless: waut a sec, I'll show you screenshot [13:50] bialix: it's gone here as well [13:50] bialix: but I havne't removed anything [13:50] moin failure [13:50] I'm made a trivial whitespace change and saved it [13:50] and its back [13:51] that's better [13:52] ngnp: I don't understand your question and your intent [13:53] bialix: I want to have my whole project (www-dir, sql-dir) under version control. But part of it (www-dir) comes from that launchpad repo. How to get that into my project tree? (Is that better :) [13:54] what is project tree? shared repository? branch? [13:55] do you want to have entire project as one branch? [13:55] or do you plan to use something like config-manager or scmproj? [13:56] ngnp: ^ [13:57] bialix: I want to have control over my shared repository and update now and then this durpal/main [13:58] It's like a svn:external [13:59] bzr has no support for svn:external [13:59] you have 3 choices: 1) put everything into one big branch [14:00] 2) use manual deploy or automatize it with make, rake, ant, zc.buildout, etc. [14:00] 3) use tools like config-manager or scmproj plugin to specify config for your components [14:00] ngnp: shared repository is just place where your branches lives [14:01] it's not interesting per se [14:01] bzr working with branches as first-class citizens [14:01] hmmm ... I'm disappointed about that. I'll check config-manager scmproj :) [14:02] ngnp: what is your intent re drupal sources? [14:03] ngnp: in simpliest case you can just branching drupal branch into your project, and use pull later to update it [14:03] ngnp: maybe this is what you asking initially? [14:04] It means all web project users like me who need a proj/www and proj/sql directory under version control cannot use bzr :( [14:04] bialix: Oh, I'd never heard of rake. Inneresting. [14:04] fullermd: IIRC, this is ruby make [14:04] bialix: I know how to branch from that drupal ... but it should reside in a _subdir_ ....darn [14:05] ngnp: so branch it into subdir [14:05] what's the problem? [14:05] Yah. At a glance, it looks similar to a project of mine, except for the ruby bit. I'll have to dig into it sometime in search of interesting ideas to stea.... er, borrow. [14:05] bialix: how? That's my question after all :p [14:05] bgnp: if you need to recreate branches structure on another nachine you need config-manager or scmproj [14:05] ngnp: ^ [14:06] i'm reading .. [14:06] ngnp: how? cd subdir; bzr branch lp:drupal [14:06] * ngnp tried his hell out yesterday ... retrying [14:07] what it means "hell out"? [14:07] oh, ignore me [14:09] fullermd: me personally prefer scons [14:12] bialix: no no ... thanks for helping ... I tried this all day yesterday [14:13] ngnp: ignore me related to my dumb question about english phrases [14:13] bialix: my english is neither native :p [14:14] oh, ok [14:14] * bialix hopes ngnp found lp pages for both projects [14:17] bialix: I give up :( ... thanks for your time :) [14:17] you give up? [14:17] so fast? [14:18] ngnp: write a mail to bzr mailing list and ask for help. provide more details about what you want to achieve. you'll get more detailed suggestions [14:19] bialix: not fast .. trying for days ... and have to do some productive things :( ... maybe I try the mailing list ... still don't understand there is no svn:externals equiv ... I do understand your 'first class citizens' :) [14:20] tnx again [14:20] ngnp: feature similar to svn:externals is still under development, right now it's stalled [14:21] ic [14:21] scmproj is my plugin which tried to poorly emulate this feature [14:22] Just reading http://bialix.com/scmproj/docs/howto.html ;) [14:23] ngnp: it's a bit outdated [14:23] ngnp: write a mail and I'll show you more realistic examples [14:24] ngnp: you are not first drupaler who struggles with such problem [14:24] bialix: I will after I've written my drupal article about it ... thanks [14:25] about it -- about what? [14:26] ngnp: what is "it"? [14:27] It is about how to get three dirs under version control "www, sql, meta" ;) [14:28]