[01:55] <mrmcq2u_> kwwii - did u post a screenie of the new gdm yet?
[02:54] <mrmcq2u_> http://www.youtube.com/user/lockergnome?blend=1&ob=4 -> cool video on creative commons 3d print mashups :D
[02:59] <mrmcq2u_> they open sourced the hardware of the 3d printer too :D
[08:59] <kwwii> mrmcq2u_: nope, just got it running yesterday...have to set the bg and then I will make one
[09:43] <thorwil> good morning!
[10:02] <kwwii> good morning thorwil
[10:03] <thorwil> kwwii: in case you don't follow the ubuntu-web list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/KarmicCountdownBanners?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=countdown_09-10_glow.png :)
[10:04] <kwwii> thorwil: wow, you've been busyy
[10:06] <knome> morning kwwii :)
[10:07] <kwwii> thorwil: talking to the people in the office, once thing about the banner came up
[10:08] <kwwii> they felt that last time, we pushed to hard to keep out corporate look (or whatever you want to call it)
[10:09] <kwwii> so, people should feel free to do more bold, different designs if so desired
[10:10] <thorwil> kwwii:  "pushed to hard to keep out corporate look"? you do know that I talked with Julian directly and implemented changes on his request?
[10:12] <kwwii> thorwil: yeah, well he is gone now :p
[10:12] <kwwii> thorwil: someone here told me that they felt as if last time things were not led well
[10:12] <kwwii> (ie we messed things up for you and the others)
[10:13] <thorwil> kwwii: the result last time was "louder" than what i had in mind originally, but i'm fine with it after all
[10:17] <thorwil> kwwii: the thing that bothered me was the initial attempt to have the decision makers talk with newz, and newz with me. so choose the direct path to me or anyone else, if you want to be nicer to use ;)
[10:18] <kwwii> thorwil: hehe, I guess I should get in touch with newz then, before we make the same mistake again
[10:19] <thorwil> kwwii: newz is a great guy, but "stille post" helps no one, if you know what i mean ;)
[10:26] <kwwii> thorwil: klar
[10:27] <knome> o.O
[10:41] <kwwii> knome: ok, I have an answer for you....I am going to take the notification icons out of the human theme and put them in their own set
[10:41] <knome> \o/
[10:42] <kwwii> that way, you can use them without having to copy them into another set
[10:42] <knome> thanks, that's appreciated
[10:42] <knome> are they still theoretically CC licensed?
[10:42] <kwwii> I appreciate your patience, I know it is a pretty messed up situation
[10:43] <kwwii> knome: no, they will not be licensed as such...instead there is a phrase which our lawyers wrote which will be included
[10:43] <knome> okay :D
[10:43] <knome> so the new package is shuttleworth-licensed? ;)
[10:43] <kwwii> getting our lawyers to write that sentence took months
[10:43] <kwwii> lol
[10:43] <kwwii> "you must ask mark shuttleworth personaly if you can use these icons"
[10:44] <kwwii> "...every time you boot your computer"
[10:44] <knome> haha
[10:44] <knome> he would be getting *A LOT* of phone calls
[10:45] <kwwii> ;)
[10:47] <knome> what's the sentence then? :P
[10:47] <kwwii> not sure, my laptop doesn't have all my old emails
[10:47] <thorwil> "you may only use these icons if you own alliteratively named pets"
[10:47] <knome> okay :D
[10:47] <kwwii> it was something like "the rights to all of this belong to canonical"
[10:48] <knome> kwwii, are you using POP or what is it with your email? ;)
[10:48] <kwwii> knome: no, I don't have my email set up on this machine at all because I reinstall every few days
[10:48] <knome> right
[10:49] <kwwii> I have it on my other laptop, give me a minute
[10:49] <knome> oh noes, you don't have to, i was just curious
[10:50] <knome> (or are you using your work time here and trying to get off as easily as you can)
[10:50] <kwwii> actually, it is not on my mac either
[10:50] <kwwii> I have it at home on my desktop...I'll get it tomorrow
[10:50] <knome> kwwii, so you DO use pop?
[10:50] <kwwii> it should already be included in the xsplash artwork package
[10:50] <knome> :P
[10:51] <kwwii> yes, but not for my canonical account
[10:51] <kwwii> for some reason, once I have it on my desktop at home it removes it from my imap
[10:51] <knome> really? are you sure you're not configured to use POP on your desktop?
[11:08] <kwwii> knome: yeah, I am really sure because my pop server went down for a week and I was freaking out :p
[11:08] <kwwii> I think it has something to do with kmail's support for disconnected imap
[11:11] <kwwii> knome: here is the full text of the license...
[11:11] <kwwii> here comes a lot of text, sorry:
[11:12] <kwwii> Unless otherwise indicated, artwork is available under the Creative Commons
[11:12] <kwwii> Attribution Share-alike license v3.0 or any later version.  To view a copy of
[11:12] <kwwii> this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ or send a
[11:12] <kwwii> letter to Creative Commons, 171 Second Street, Suite 300, San Francisco,
[11:12] <kwwii> California, 94105, USA.
[11:12] <kwwii> See below for the full text.
[11:12] <kwwii> The rights in the trademarks, logos, service marks of Canonical Ltd,
[11:12] <kwwii> as well as the look and feel of Ubuntu, are not licensed under the
[11:12] <kwwii> Creative Commons license and are subject to the Canonical Trademark
[11:12] <kwwii> Policy at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy
[11:17] <mac_v> kwwii: hi.. any info about using the vertical battery icons :)
[11:18] <mac_v> also will the notify-osd icons be moved to /usr/share/notify-osd/ ?
[11:23] <kwwii> mac_v: yeah, I am working on updating the set as we speak...by tomorrow there will be a new package
[11:23] <kwwii> mac_v: I have been aggregating my changes
[11:24] <mac_v> nice :)
[11:29] <mac_v> kwwii: also... there is no chance i could use the notify-osd icons ,I'v sent, in Humanity or any other theme... right? just confirming [read the scrollback ;) ],
[11:29] <kwwii> mac_v: not copying them into another theme...but I am going to take them out and put them in their own theme
[11:29] <kwwii> so you could include that theme underneath humanity
[11:31] <mac_v> kwwii: so other themes will have to set the new theme as inherits? or will notify-osd just use the new theme as a fallback on its own
[11:32]  * mac_v never understand copyright , but understand copying ;p
[11:32] <mac_v> undertands*
[11:39] <mac_v> mat_t: hi... is the xsplash ,we have right now , the final version or can we expect some tweaks? because the present image is causing banding [gradients] in a *lot* of systems , almost all the youtube videos show banding
[11:51] <thorwil> mac_v: of course you see banding in youtube videos. even with a solid fill you would see artifacts there
[11:52]  * thorwil -> cooking
[11:53] <mac_v> thorwil: actually i was having banding in my system... and on noticing other videos , thought this problem might be more universal... :)
[11:54]  * mac_v kicks crappy ATI card
[12:31] <mat_t> mac_v: what do you mean by *a lot*?
[12:39] <mac_v> mat_t: i was just going through the youtube videos , for example this one > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrQ6aJzHYRs  ... almost all the ones i saw had similar banding , that is nearly similar to the banding i see in my laptop , maybe a little lesser than seen in the video
[12:44] <mac_v> like thorwil said... it maybe the video quality that is poor in youtube... but thats how i get xsplash displayed in my system
[12:44] <mac_v> that was one of the reasons i was looking to change the image
[12:56] <mac_v> kwwii: http://elementary-project.com/abuse/screens/screen2.tiff < look familiar ? ;p ... OSX has copied us
[13:23] <kwwii> mac_v: hehe, I wonder who copied who? :p
[13:25] <knome> kwwii, you are such a license-offending copycat!
[13:25] <knome> ;)
[13:47] <kwwii> :p
[13:59] <mat_t> mac_v: you cannot use videos as a reference - the compression will always distort the colors
[14:00] <mat_t> mac_v: the banding could be an issue on 16-bit displays, but there's not much we can do about it
[14:01] <mac_v> mat_t: yeah , i agree , but thats how it displays in system too... hm.. i'm not sure if my system is 16bit... how do i check?
[14:08] <kwwii> mac_v: if your system was only running 16bit almost everything would be banded
[14:09] <kwwii> mac_v: there is almost no way of showing how your monitor looks to anyone else
[14:09] <mac_v> \o/ no such probs
[14:09] <kwwii> although a photo would at least explain it a bit
[14:09] <kwwii> but that is really hard to do as well
[14:09] <kwwii> almost nothing falls back to 16bit these days
[14:10] <mac_v> yeah
[14:11] <mac_v> kwwii:  but how the youtube video shows the image is a bit close to how it gets displayed for me.. i get the bands only on the sides , where the black flows into the wine
[14:11] <mac_v> the video has banding even for the light , i dont have such probs
[14:13] <kwwii> mac_v: honestly, I have the shittiest monitor on this laptop and it, to my amazement, doesn't have any banding problems
[14:13] <kwwii> have you adjusted the black point of you monitor?
[14:13] <mac_v> hehe , then mine must be shittier ;p
[14:13] <kwwii> how old is the monitor?
[14:13] <mac_v> ~3yrs... its an LCD [laptop]
[14:13] <mac_v> or even less
[14:14] <kwwii> well, a poor quality lcd might show some signs
[14:14] <kwwii> until now, nobody else has reported any problems
[14:14] <kwwii> if you could find others with the same problem it would be much more believable :D
[14:15] <mac_v> well this is an Acer Aspire 5670 laptop... maybe you could test it in any acer
[14:15] <mac_v> kwwii: hehe , let me hunt down someone regarding this
[14:16] <mac_v> ;)
[14:16] <mac_v> also its an ATI card.. that maybe the problem too :(
[14:18] <kwwii> I have an ati card with a huge monitor at home and I don't have any problems
[14:18] <kwwii> nor on either of my laptops
[14:18] <kwwii> I could try it on my wifes computer tomorrow
[14:32] <knome> someday i will buy this book, just to have it in my shelf: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Graphic-Designer-Without-Losing-Your/dp/1856694100/ref=pd_ys_ir_all_9
[15:27] <SiDi> kwwii:
[15:27] <SiDi> h there, any news
[15:40] <kwwii> SiDi: concerning the notification icons?
[15:40] <SiDi> yeh
[15:40] <SiDi> i can ask sabdfl now if you want
[15:41] <kwwii> hehe, no worries. I have them sorted
[15:41] <kwwii> we are going to take them out of the human set and include them in their own
[15:42] <kwwii> that solves the problem for you, right?
[15:42] <SiDi> definately
[15:43] <SiDi> whats the license of xsplash and the xsplash theme ?
[15:44] <kwwii> Unless otherwise indicated, artwork is available under the Creative
[15:44] <kwwii> Commons Attribution Share-alike license v3.0 or any later version. To
[15:44] <kwwii> view a copy of this license, visit
[15:44] <kwwii> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ or send a letter to
[15:44] <kwwii> Creative Commons, 171 Second Street, Suite 300, San Francisco,
[15:44] <kwwii> California, 94105, USA. See below for the full text of the license.
[15:44] <kwwii> Some Rights Reserved:
[15:44] <kwwii> The rights in the trademarks, logos, service marks of Canonical Ltd,
[15:44] <kwwii> as well as the look and feel of Ubuntu, are not licensed under the
[15:44] <kwwii> Creative Commons license and are subject to the Canonical Trademark
[15:44] <kwwii> Policy at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy
[15:45] <natewiebe13> someone took mrdoob's iteration 3 and made it for xsplash
[15:45]  * natewiebe13 gives thumbs up
[15:50] <SiDi> kwwii: i see
[15:50] <SiDi> basically we will use our GPLv3 wallpaper + some throbler and probably white glowish xubuntu logo
[15:50] <SiDi> do we risk a sue ? :P
[15:55] <kwwii> SiDi: hehe, no...as long as you don't directly copy it there is no problem
[15:55] <kwwii> or just change it to use your name or such
[15:55] <kwwii> ie change it enough to be different enough and there is not a problem
[15:55] <kwwii> and in any case, nobody is going to start suing people anytime soon ;)
[15:56] <kwwii> I am sure that I would have a private conversation first
[15:56] <kwwii> time for me to head back to the airport, going home today
[15:56] <kwwii> I'll be back online either late tonight or tomorrow
[15:56] <kwwii> have fun, be good
[15:59] <mac_v> ah just missed kwwii
[15:59] <mac_v> any one have any idea where gnome-dev-symlink is used for?
[16:00] <mac_v> is it an emblem or an icon...
[16:00] <SiDi> thanks kwwii
[16:00] <SiDi> have a nice trip back
[16:00] <mac_v> andreasn_: any ideas^ ?
[16:02] <andreasn_> mac_v, it's for the symlinks, yes
[16:03] <mac_v> andreasn_: ah thanks :)
[16:03] <andreasn_> fortunately it can't be user added as the no-read and no-write emblems
[16:04] <andreasn_> the naming-spec name is emblem-symbolic-link
[16:05] <mac_v> oh... Human had that icon and was wondering what it did...
[18:23] <FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
[23:16] <psyke83> hey
[23:21]  * kwwii returns home
[23:21] <kwwii> hey psyke83
[23:22] <psyke83> kwwii: hey, got your mail. Will reply tomorrow with the corrections (and mentioning the lines that needed change)... but...
[23:22] <kwwii> two whole weeks until I have to go back to London, seems like forever
[23:22] <kwwii> psyke83: you don't like the color?
[23:23] <kwwii> I wonder what people will say about it...those who decided don't know the history, etc
[23:23] <psyke83> kwwii: well, yes ;). But that's not the problem, since it's not my decision. I think there may be other parts of the theme you'd need to tweak to make it more acceptable, maybe, I dunno. I'm looking at it now, and all the widgets seem to have a high contrast
[23:25] <kwwii> psyke83: yeah, I was assuming the change (it is much darker now) would effect many things we haven't seen yet
[23:25] <psyke83> kwwii: what history do you mean?
[23:25] <kwwii> this color is much cloer to the original human theme color
[23:25] <psyke83> ah, right
[23:25] <kwwii> and they have no idea how people have commented about the brown in the past
[23:25] <psyke83> I believe the background colour was different as well (less gray)
[23:26] <kwwii> yes
[23:26] <kwwii> also darker
[23:26] <psyke83> are you thinking of bringing back that "legacy" theme with murrine?
[23:27] <kwwii> nope, we are working on totally new ideas for lucid which use similar colors to this new brown
[23:27] <kwwii> but we are making a dark and light theme
[23:28] <psyke83> I see. Do you remember when we were playing with the NewHuman-Light? If the other widgets were darkened, I think this new selection colour would better match
[23:29] <psyke83> see this, but imagine your selection colour instead of the orange: http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/NewHuman-Light.png
[23:31] <psyke83> well, maybe my old laptop's LCD screen is accentuating the problem, but the selection colour causes huge contrast issues with the rest of the widgets, to my eyes
[23:32] <kwwii> I wouldn't go that dark, but yes, I agree that other parts could be darker as well
[23:33] <kwwii> in fact, I thought that perhps the buttons and widgets (not the bg as much) could all be darker
[23:33] <kwwii> the bg color could be darker, but not much darker or it changes the over-all feel of the theme
[23:33] <psyke83> right...
[23:34] <kwwii> I just found out about this change about 15min before I emailed you
[23:34] <kwwii> and thursday is beta freeze
[23:34] <psyke83> the advantage to having even slightly darker background means that the widgets can be made a little more distinct compared to what it is now
[23:34] <kwwii> yes, I agree
[23:34] <kwwii> I also thought about tweaking some of the murrine stuff, contrast, glow, etc
[23:35] <kwwii> I had the center glow (4 instead of 0) and I really liked it
[23:35] <psyke83> yes, if I were to try and incorporate such a different selection colour, I'd probably tweak as much of those as possible to try and compensate
[23:35] <kwwii> I've been working on a new gtk style and metacity theme for gdm lately as well :p
[23:36] <psyke83> nice
[23:36] <psyke83> the human metacity would possibly need a tweak, too, as it darkens the selection colour and looks almost black
[23:36] <kwwii> unfortunately, I also have to finish a bunch of icons for network manager as well as changing the softwarestore icon
[23:37] <kwwii> yeah, I thought about making the metacity lighter in relation to the gtk stuff
[23:37] <psyke83> who told you to change the theme so close to the freeze deadline?
[23:37] <kwwii> the glow gets lost when it is too dark
[23:37] <kwwii> the rest of the team
[23:37] <kwwii> I no longer work alone!
[23:37] <kwwii> I have 13 colleagues now
[23:38] <psyke83> and things still can't get done on time.... ;)
[23:38] <psyke83> j/k
[23:38] <psyke83> is the group called the user experience team, or artwork team?
[23:40] <knome> it's the "blame-them" team
[23:40] <kwwii> Design and User Experience tetam
[23:40] <kwwii> :p
[23:40] <kwwii> it is the proprietary team :D
[23:40] <kwwii> DUX for short
[23:40] <psyke83> heh
[23:40] <knome> the root of all evil (tm)
[23:40] <kwwii> lol
[23:42] <psyke83> kwwii: have you chatted to Cimi lately? Any idea if he's been working on the murrine engine lately, adding new features, etc?
[23:43] <kwwii> I think he just updated the engine
[23:43] <kwwii> but I haven't had any contact for a few months
[23:43] <psyke83> it's a shame that the gtk engines aren't seeing much love, though I guess that gnome 3 could explain the lack of activity
[23:44] <kwwii> well, for lucid we will (apparently) be writing our own
[23:44] <psyke83> I'm looking at the git now, the last changes were just small compile fixes
[23:44] <kwwii> too bad
[23:44] <psyke83> is there info on this lucid macguffin?
[23:44] <psyke83> a link or anything?
[23:45] <kwwii> nope, nothing whatsoever
[23:45] <kwwii> it exists as a series of mockups
[23:45] <kwwii> in photoshop and flash form
[23:45] <kwwii> I haven't seen much of it
[23:46] <kwwii> they just thought about the fact that none of them use linux and maybe, just maybe there are limitations and necessary parts they might not know about
[23:46] <kwwii> I gave them links to gtk and metacity theme information but I think they ignored
[23:46] <kwwii> me
[23:46] <psyke83> you mean things like the limitations of the gtk toolkit etc?
[23:46] <kwwii> yepp
[23:47] <psyke83> you mean... the people on the DUX team, that are paid to know these things?? ;)
[23:47] <kwwii> +1 is a long term support release as well
[23:47] <psyke83> just to let you know, if there's any dead weight, I'm available for employment ;)
[23:47] <kwwii> lol, I am the only one who knows these things and they think I am "the negative guy"
[23:47] <kwwii> dude, send me your CV
[23:48] <kwwii> also, I could make sure you are invited to UDS, if you have time/interest
[23:48] <kwwii> I cannot think of a better person to invite
[23:48] <kwwii> well, other than the studio peeps and thorwil (who never accepts my offer)
[23:49] <kwwii> it's somewhere in america, maybe dallas texas, in november
[23:50] <psyke83> thanks man, I appreciate that, but that's not possible this year. I'm in Ireland at the moment (was working in Brazil at the beginning of the year, and came back to the recession)
[23:50] <kwwii> even if we paid for it all?
[23:50] <psyke83> ...and, my gf is visiting here in December, so I won't be able to afford
[23:51] <kwwii> hehe
[23:51] <psyke83> yeah right, and pigs may fly ;)
[23:51] <kwwii> we pay for all the people we invite, you know
[23:51] <psyke83> pigs who understand gtk limitations, maybe
[23:51] <kwwii> lol
[23:51] <kwwii> you even get a per diem for the meals we don't provide
[23:52] <knome> kwwii, invite me as well :P
[23:52] <knome> (just kidding, i'd rather come to the eu meeting next spring)
[23:53] <kwwii> hehe...knome, where are you located?
[23:53] <kwwii> say "on my couch"
[23:54] <knome> kwwii, finland, northern europe
[23:54] <kwwii> been close to there before
[23:54] <knome> a trip to US is quite long and i'm not sure if i'm willing to do it again.
[23:55] <kwwii> the only scandanavian country I haven't been to
[23:55] <knome> !
[23:55]  * kwwii is in germany
[23:55] <knome> then you definitely have to make a visit ;)
[23:55] <kwwii> well, the other trips (other than denmark) were work related
[23:55] <kwwii> I would love to, if only I had the money
[23:55] <kwwii> I could visit tigert and andreasn and others
[23:56] <knome> yep