[00:01] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i think bug 408481, bug 433302 and bug 432692 are all the same crash
[00:01] <chrisccoulson> i would dupe them all, but it's a pain ;)
[00:01] <chrisccoulson> they all have their own duplicates too
[00:01] <seb128> ok
[00:01] <seb128> I will list all those in the changelo
[00:02] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[00:02] <seb128> bug #432541 too?
[00:03] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - that one looks a little different. i'll have a look, just in case it is the same underlying issue
[00:03] <seb128> ok
[00:05] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's crashing here:
[00:05] <chrisccoulson> g_warning ("Unable to stop system: %s", error->message);
[00:05] <chrisccoulson> would that crash if error is a NULL pointer, or is there any checking in g_warning?
[00:06] <seb128> would crash if error == NULL I think
[00:06] <chrisccoulson> it seems that dbus_g_proxy_call_with_timeout() fails but there is nothing in error
[00:06] <chrisccoulson> wierd
[00:06] <chrisccoulson> so that one looks like a different issue
[00:08] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i spotted the error
[00:08] <seb128> you are quick ;-)
[00:09] <chrisccoulson> error is defined as "GError *error"
[00:09] <chrisccoulson> but it passes "error" to dbus_g_proxy_call_with_timeout
[00:09] <seb128> oh, no = NULL?
[00:09] <chrisccoulson> this should be "&error"
[00:09] <seb128> usually those are set to NULL
[00:09] <seb128> and yes it should be &error
[00:09] <chrisccoulson> that's why it crashes when that call fails ;)
[00:10] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure if you want to fix that in the same upload?
[00:10] <seb128> why not
[00:10] <chrisccoulson> cool, thanks:)
[00:11] <chrisccoulson> seb128- that mistake seems to be quite common in gsm-consolekit.c
[00:12] <seb128> it's weird that gcc says nothing about those
[00:13] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that is a bit strange
[00:13] <chrisccoulson> gsm_consolekit_attempt_restart and gsm_consolekit_attempt_stop have the same issue
[00:13] <chrisccoulson> i thought some other functions did too, but i think some others are correct
[00:16] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - you've noticed before that some applications don't refresh the theme correctly when g-s-d loads?
[00:16] <seb128> yes
[00:16] <seb128> did you figure why?
[00:16] <chrisccoulson> not yet. i wonder if it's a gtk issue?
[00:16] <seb128> I was thinking maybe a gdk one due to the client side decoration changes
[00:17] <seb128> but I'm not sure
[00:17] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i was wondering that too
[00:17] <seb128> I will play with that once 2.28 is uploaded
[00:17] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[00:18] <robert_ancell> hey seb128
[00:18] <robert_ancell> lots of updates today :)
[00:18] <seb128> robert_ancell, we have an updated versions.html working again cf topic
[00:18] <robert_ancell> \o/
[00:18] <seb128> it's running on pitti's server
[00:18] <seb128> yes
[00:18] <seb128> busy day
[00:18] <seb128> and quite some left for you
[00:18] <seb128> I'm doing gnome-session and libgweather now and will call it a day
[00:18] <robert_ancell> no prob, they'll all be ready when you wake up :)
[00:19] <seb128> good ;-)
[00:19] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, strange. i was expecting a sound effect when i pressed my volume buttons
[00:19] <chrisccoulson> (according to the gsd changelog)
[00:20] <seb128> could depend on some libcanberra change or sound in the sound theme we don't have
[00:20] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - possibly. i added a build-dep on libcanberra-gtk-dev
[00:21] <chrisccoulson> ah, right
[00:22] <chrisccoulson> our synchronous notifications patch messes it up
[00:22] <chrisccoulson> because the update_dialog function returns before the sound is played
[00:22] <chrisccoulson> oops
[00:22] <chrisccoulson> that will be why
[00:30] <chrisccoulson> has anyone noticed that update-notifier draws a black vertical bar in the notification area briefly as it loads shortly after the session starts?
[00:35] <Laney> I see three black vertical bars right now
[00:35] <Laney> didn't notice them before
[00:35] <Laney> wait, *four*!
[00:36] <james_w> chrisccoulson: it may be something to do with icon caches?
[00:36] <chrisccoulson> james_w - not sure really. i just noticed it each time i log in
[00:36] <james_w> gtk (or perhaps the notification area protocol) don't allow you to create a notification icon that is hidden though
[00:36] <james_w> so you have to create one that is visible and then hide it
[00:36] <james_w> which leads to a fugly flash
[00:36] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. that might be why it happens then
[00:37] <james_w> it's usually the icon though, which is why I suggested a cache issue (or just broken icon link?) causing the black bar
[00:37] <Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/bars.png
[00:37] <Laney> not that then?
[00:39] <chrisccoulson> james_w - you're probably right, i've not had too much time to investigate it
[00:39] <james_w> Laney: that's pretty odd
[00:39] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i can't get the volume button sounds to work. i think we're missing the correct sounds for the event
[00:39] <james_w> chrisccoulson: is that what you see?
[00:39] <james_w> or more like blocks?
[00:40] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i see the vertical bars like that, but i normally only see 1
[00:40] <Laney> but yours go away?
[00:40] <chrisccoulson> Laney - yeah, it only flashes briefly
[00:40] <Laney> hm
[00:40] <chrisccoulson> it just looksa bit ugly as everything loads
[00:41] <Laney> maybe this is where I've interacted with something in the area such as apport
[00:43]  * Laney -> bed
[00:43] <Laney> night folks
[00:43] <chrisccoulson> night Laney!
[00:49] <seb128> re
[00:49] <seb128> sorry another round of testing
[00:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson, still there?
[00:49] <chrisccoulson> i am
[00:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you still work on the gnome-session change?
[00:50] <chrisccoulson> do you mean gnome-settings-daemon?
[00:50] <seb128> no the error against &error
[00:50] <seb128> did you want to do a patch or should I do one?
[00:50] <chrisccoulson> i don't mind. i can do it, but i probably wouldn't be able to do it tonight now
[00:51] <chrisccoulson> it's getting a bit late now;)
[00:51] <seb128> ok, let's upload the update as I have it and we can do 0ubuntu2 tomorrow
[00:51] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[00:54] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've pushed the g-s-d update now
[00:55] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, thanks
[00:55] <seb128> I'm looking at that and going to bed
[00:55] <chrisccoulson> i think the volume button sound issue is just a lack of sounds in our default theme
[00:55] <seb128> ok, makes sense
[00:56] <chrisccoulson> although i tried symlinking a sound, and couldn't get it to work either. but i don't know how that stuff works yet, so i guess i'll have to look at that another day
[00:56] <Amaranth> man, jaunty->karmic upgrade takes forever :/
[00:56] <Amaranth> Fetching file 223 of 1188
[00:57] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it takes a long time
[00:58] <chrisccoulson> i opted for a fresh install of karmic, but ended up doing the install 3 times
[00:58] <chrisccoulson> so, it probably took longer in the end ;)
[00:58] <Amaranth> I think it may have stalled
[00:58] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: I'm testing something for 430981
[01:02] <Amaranth> yay, right when I pasted that someone PMed me who still has the bug
[01:02] <Amaranth> bug 430981, that is
[01:07] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i reverted an upstream change in g-s-t which introduces a new visible string (by just modifying the ui file to hide the label). The new string will still get imported in to rosetta though won't it?
[01:07] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yes
[01:08] <seb128> what string was that?
[01:08] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks. it is a new string in users-admin which just adds a note to explain why you can't modify a users UID
[01:08] <seb128> ok
[01:09] <chrisccoulson> but it's not fully translated upstream, and the string is gramatically incorrect anyway
[01:09] <chrisccoulson> so i just hid it for now
[01:09] <seb128> ok, makes sense
[01:18] <seb128> ok, time to go to bed I will do an another sponsoring round tomorrow morning
[01:18] <seb128> if people who will wake earlier than be have not cleaned everything ;-)
[01:20] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell: good morning
[01:20] <rickspencer3> I see you updated gcalc
[01:20] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hi
[01:20] <robert_ancell> of course :)
[01:20] <rickspencer3> thank goodness, that was the final missing piece for Karmic
[01:20] <rickspencer3> ship!
[01:20] <rickspencer3> :)
[01:20] <robert_ancell> yes, I am making all the other packages depend on it
[01:21] <rickspencer3> lmao
[01:21] <rickspencer3> in all seriousness, I hope all is well robert_ancell ?
[01:21] <robert_ancell> yup, all going good
[01:21] <rickspencer3> great
[01:21] <robert_ancell> which conference are you at?
[01:21] <rickspencer3> btw, probably no Team Meeting, Eastern edition tomorrow
[01:22] <rickspencer3> TheMuso: ^
[01:22] <robert_ancell> ok, np
[01:22] <rickspencer3> it's called LinuxCOn
[01:22] <rickspencer3> hosted by Linux Foundation
[01:22] <rickspencer3> but also the kernel team is sprinting, and lots of important Canonical people are here :)
[01:22] <Amaranth> I think we're going to get below 400 bugs in compiz for karmic :)
[01:22] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, yay!
[01:23] <rickspencer3> Amaranth: nice!
[01:23] <Amaranth> Of course most of that is probably going to be just cleaning up what is already there :)
[01:23] <Amaranth> Dupes, wrong package, etc :)
[01:23] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, are you still working on the move/resize clipping patch?
[01:23] <Amaranth> Already dropped it about 30-40 bugs though today
[01:23] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: actually no, cornelius ended up doing it
[01:24] <Amaranth> except for the override with the keys or buttons
[01:24] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Thought as much, thanks for the heads up anyways.
[01:24] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, cool, but it is fixed now.  Do you know when the 0.8.4 release will occur?
[01:25] <Amaranth> Why would a gconf key refuse to let you change it if /etc/gconf doesn't have anything for it and its current setting is not what the schema has?
[01:25] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: no idea
[01:25] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, is there an entry in ~/.gconf?
[01:25] <Amaranth> well yeah
[01:26] <Amaranth> maybe just manually edit it?
[01:26] <Amaranth> someone with bug 430981 contacted me and the only weird thing I can see in their settings is the gconf plugin in active_plugins
[01:26] <Amaranth> which should _never_ happen and could very well be breaking things
[01:26] <Amaranth> wait, I know
[01:27] <Amaranth> it's compiz blocking it, he is running fusion-icon
[01:27] <Amaranth> if you specific a plugin on the command line it will absolutely refuse to unload it
[01:28] <robert_ancell> odd
[01:29] <Amaranth> it's a new feature specifically designed to make sure you don't turn off move or decoration or etc :)
[01:29] <Amaranth> but if you specify gconf on the command line it'll be stuck
[01:30] <Amaranth> it has to keep gconf loaded because you told it on the command line but you also told it ccp
[01:30] <Amaranth> they fight, you lose
[01:31] <Amaranth> these people are all upgraders so their gnome-session setup might not be what we would expect so fusion-icon is responsible for loading compiz
[01:31] <Amaranth> until they use appearance properties to switch compiz off/on
[01:31] <Amaranth> this is the only thing I can think of
[01:38] <Amaranth> Got it!
[01:38] <Amaranth> not fusion-icon, gnome-wm
[01:38] <Amaranth> /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager is still set to gnome-wm
[01:42] <robert_ancell> aha
[01:50] <Amaranth> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/gnome-session/+bug/430981/comments/14
[01:50] <Amaranth> all laid out there
[01:50] <Amaranth> I think it's about time for bed
[02:07] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, thanks for that
[02:20] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: No problem, now you can fix it and upload my failsafe session stuff at the same time ;)
[02:21] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, where is that patch?
[02:21] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amaranth/
[02:21] <Amaranth> don't do the panel one, seb128 would be mad :)
[02:22] <picklesworth> Hey... anyone know what license the new Software Store icon is under?
[02:22] <Amaranth> but he told me to do the failsafe one when I was complaining about it being missing so... :)
[02:22] <robert_ancell> ok, will look into it
[02:23] <Amaranth> Considering the fun I've seen people compiz locking up on various chips at start the failsafe session is really needed
[02:23] <Amaranth> s/seen people/seen with people's/
[02:24] <Amaranth> I think 28 hours awake is a bit too much to think coherent sentences ;)
[02:25] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, sleep!! :)
[02:25] <robert_ancell> picklesworth, they don't seem to have a specific copyright so I'm guessing they're GPL?
[02:26] <picklesworth> Indeed, it looks like it...
[02:27]  * Amaranth just wonders where Software Store is
[02:29] <Amaranth> Seriously, where should I be seeing it in my menus?
[02:30] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, Applications>Ubuntu Software Store
[02:31] <Amaranth> nope
[02:32] <robert_ancell> System>Software Store if you haven't upgraded
[02:32] <Amaranth> nope
[02:32] <robert_ancell> apt-get install software-store?
[02:32] <Amaranth> installed
[02:32] <Amaranth> give me a second, I'm the menu guy :)
[02:33] <Amaranth> I probably tweaked something
[02:33] <robert_ancell> weird... what does /usr/share/applications/software-store.desktop say?
[02:33] <Amaranth> it's ubuntu-software-store.desktop
[02:33] <Amaranth> and /etc/xdg/menus does include it in setup the layout properly
[02:33]  * Amaranth tries killall gnome-panel
[02:34] <Amaranth> nope, that didn't do it
[02:35] <Amaranth> I have no ~/.config/menus/applications.menu and I have no ~/.local/share/applications/ubuntu-software-store.desktop so nothing local is masking the system menu
[02:35] <Amaranth> NoDisplay=true
[02:35] <Amaranth> well that explains that
[02:35] <Amaranth> oh, look, an update to software-store 0.3.7.1 I missed :)
[02:36] <Amaranth> I got the panel change to remove it but not the software-store change to put it somewhere else :P
[07:16] <pitti> Good morning
[07:18] <didrocks> hello pitti
[08:18]  * pitti ports indicator-session to polkit-1; now we can finally drop all the old policykit-gnome stuff \o/
[08:19]  * didrocks hugs pitti
[08:20] <hyperair> hmm some update just increased my battery power usage again =(
[08:20] <hyperair> i can't pinpoint which, but now it's back to 15W instead of ~14.3W idling
[08:56] <chrisccoulson> good morning everybody!
[08:57] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[08:57] <kklimonda> good morning
[08:57] <pitti> hey kklimonda
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> hey kklimonda
[08:58] <kklimonda> hey hey
[09:03] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks!
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> :)
[09:14] <seb128> hello there
[09:14] <seb128> how is everybody this morning?
[09:14] <pitti> hey seb128
[09:14] <pitti> I'm great
[09:15] <pitti> seb128: I just uploaded indicator-session with polkit-1 porting; that means, the old policykit-gnome stuff falls off the CD now \o/
[09:15]  * seb128 takes gtkmm pangomm gnome-games gnome-control-center
[09:15] <seb128> for sponsoring
[09:15] <seb128> pitti, nice ;-)
[09:15] <seb128> pitti, help on sponsoring is welcome btw if you want to look at some of the GNOME 2.28 updates there too
[09:16] <pitti> seb128: right, on it
[09:24] <seb128> ok, done with restart for now I think
[09:24] <pitti> seb128: I'm taking some sponsorings, I assigned the bugs to me
[09:25] <seb128> pitti, ok, I took the one I said before and added comment to those
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[09:25] <seb128> hello chrisccoulson
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> that other gnome-session crasher is already fixed in the new tarball
[09:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how did you manage to go up this morning? ;-)
[09:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the gerror one?
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> yeah, the gerror one is fixed
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure how i managed to get up this morning - i get to work later and later every day!
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> i got in at 850 this morning
[09:27] <seb128> ok cool
[09:27] <pitti> didrocks: bug 419808 - dholbach asked about 0.22
[09:28] <pitti> didrocks: is 0.22 the one with the ABI break? we want to avoid it?
[09:28] <pitti> seb128: did you discuss the vte abi break yesterday?
[09:29] <mvo> hey glatzor_ - if you are around, I would like to ask you some questions re aptdaemon, I got some stuff ready for merging but want your opinion first
[09:29] <seb128> pitti, not really since I don't know about the issue and didrocks wanted to check things
[09:29] <seb128> mvo, hey
[09:30] <mvo> hey seb128
[09:34] <didrocks> pitti: 0.22 has been released yesterday and I read on a GNOME ML there was an ABI breakage. But I didn't try to update it yet. I'll give some time on that tonight (but if daniel can still sponsor 0.21.5 in the meanwhile, it will enable updating gnome-terminal which needs it)
[09:34] <pitti> didrocks: right, understood
[09:34] <pitti> didrocks: there's also 0.21.7 and so on
[09:35] <pitti> but I'll upload .5 for now
[09:35] <seb128> the abi breakage is after 0.21.5?
[09:35] <seb128> they changed the soname?
[09:35] <seb128> is there any reason we don't want to do the update?
[09:35] <didrocks> seb128: I didn't check, just read it on a ML
[09:36] <didrocks> seb128: it's just an intermediate status until I can check it directly with nm :)
[09:36] <pitti> $ apt-cache rdepends libvte9|wc -l
[09:36] <pitti> 36
[09:36] <pitti> doable, but needs some work
[09:36] <didrocks> hum, let me spawn a VM and try to build it
[09:57] <pitti> seb128: taking gnome-python-desktop
[10:03] <pitti> and gir-repository and clutter-1.0
[10:03]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[10:04] <pitti> the sync bugs are done, too; /me taps foot for the sponsor page to update
[10:26] <chrisccoulson> pitti - with your ubuntu-release hat on, would you mind giving a preliminary ACK to the glom FFE (bug 391664). I've got PPA packages available for it now, but i can't upload until i've got the rest of it's dependencies sorted out
[10:28] <Laney> chrisccoulson: good work!
[10:29] <chrisccoulson> heh, thanks Laney! it's still stalled on pygda though, which I'm currently working on
[10:30] <Laney> I would still like to get glom into debian
[10:30] <Laney> if only jsogo would unblock us on goocanvas
[10:31] <chrisccoulson> Laney - has anyone offered to do the work in debian then?
[10:32] <Laney> that's the reason I put goocanvasmm in there
[10:32] <Laney> but by the time it was accepted the world had moved on
[10:38] <didrocks> pitti is on sponsoring fire today :)
[10:38] <pitti> MUHAHA
[10:51] <didrocks> pitti, seb128: ok. there is no more ABI breakage. I was frightened by this: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/vte/0.21/vte-0.21.6.news which has been fixed then: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/vte/0.21/vte-0.21.7.news
[10:51] <didrocks> pitti: bug #434563 for new version so :)
[10:52] <pitti> didrocks: yay
[10:52] <pitti> didrocks: will sponsor, thanks
[10:52] <didrocks> thanks :-)
[11:18] <huats> hello everyone !
[12:10] <davmor2> mvo: is software store disabled from livecd?  When I click on any section it goes to the section but nothing is displayed
[12:23] <mvo> davmor2: I think thats a bug, probably something with the livefs creation
[12:24] <davmor2> mvo: okay I'll carry on with the install and see if it goes away :)
[12:24] <mvo> ok
[12:25] <seb128> pitti, is Cc-ing you one bugs enough when I want your opinion or do you prefer to be assigned?
[12:32] <davmor2> seb128: I've noticed something weird with totem.  With the youtube plugin it grabs the h.264 codec but when it plays there is no audio.  I went into PA sound prefs to see if totem was muted or turned down and it isn't displayed in PA applications tab at all.  However if I use the bbc plugin and select one of the podcasts totem then appears in PA applications tab and also I get audio as expected.  What the hell is 
[12:32] <pitti> re
[12:32] <pitti> seb128: subscribing me is enough
[12:33] <seb128> dunno about totem
[12:34] <seb128> pitti, ok thanks
[12:56] <chrisccoulson> there's not many updates for me to do when i get home later!
[12:57] <seb128> chrisccoulson, right, making you work on upgrades is a waste of talent anyway ;-)
[12:57] <chrisccoulson> heh, thanks ;)
[13:12] <seb128> pitti, could you just check https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/395591?
[13:12] <seb128> pitti, the gdm.config and gdm.template have been dropped by error right?
[13:12] <seb128> just making sure, that seems to make sense to add those again but a second opinion is welcome
[13:13] <seb128> see comment #6
[13:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, everybody else who want to fix bugs for karmic: https://edge.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12698&field.milestone%3Alist=12715
[13:13] <seb128> I started milestoning bugs
[13:13] <seb128> those are assigned to desktop-bugs and milestoned 9.10-beta or 9.10
[13:13] <pitti> seb128: oops, indeed
[13:13] <seb128> just for information
[13:13] <seb128> pitti, ok, I'm fixing that now
[13:13] <seb128> I've some other gdm things I want to look at too
[13:14] <chrisccoulson> thanks seb128, i'll take a look at some of those
[13:14]  * seb128 kicks launchpad
[13:14] <seb128> is there a way to not list "ubuntu" and "ubuntu (karmic)" tasks
[13:14] <seb128> ie the same bug twice just because they have a karmic task
[13:14] <chrisccoulson> i'll take bug 420063 then
[13:14] <pitti> I don't know any
[13:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson, feel free to assign the bug to yourself if you will work on it
[13:15] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[13:15] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll start working on that tonight
[13:15] <pitti> gosh, half of it is gdm
[13:15] <seb128> pitti, yes ...
[13:15] <chrisccoulson> it shouldn't be too difficult to do
[13:15] <seb128> but to be fair that's because I didn't review all packages yet to milestone things
[13:16] <pitti> seb128: thanks for putting that list together
[13:16] <seb128> np ;-)
[13:16] <chrisccoulson> the gnome-keyring-daemon issue is a tricky one. i tried to attach GDB to the daemon and then log out, but GDB hung for some reason
[13:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, wait for upstream maybe for this one
[13:17] <seb128> the gnome-keyring upstream are usually responsive
[13:17] <seb128> not always very quick but they look regularly to issues
[13:18] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'll do that. but it would be nice to try and fix it too:)
[13:18] <seb128> chrisccoulson, can't fix everything
[13:18] <chrisccoulson> it would be nice to be able too ;)
[13:18] <seb128> it's good to know where things will not get worked and where we should look and where we can rely on others to look at the bug
[13:19] <seb128> righto ;-)
[13:19] <chrisccoulson> i can probably fix bug 413116 too, but i'll leave that until i've fixed the GDM one
[13:19] <seb128> let's close some gdm bugs now
[13:19] <seb128> I need to look at the new pulseaudio behaviour
[13:20] <seb128> the settings which makes different controls to move together or something
[13:20] <seb128> and how changing volume in applications impact on the sliders
[13:20] <seb128> seems the karmic behaviour is confusing for quite some users
[13:20] <seb128> my audio use is basic though, I run rhythmbox and change volume for the music
[13:20] <seb128> ie I don't play with difference between pcm, master, other applications, etc
[13:21] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - from looking at the volume control in g-s-d (which is the same code as gnome-media), pulseaudio actually lets you mute and set the volume of a channel independently. it is the responsibility of gnome-media to explicitly unmute the channel when you set the volume above zero
[13:21] <chrisccoulson> ie, pulseaudio lets you set a volume >0 when the channel is still muted
[13:21] <chrisccoulson> which is a bit confusing
[13:21] <chrisccoulson> ie, 0 != mute
[13:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, my audio use is quite basic too
[13:57] <mpt> mvo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore?action=diff&rev2=200&rev1=199
[13:58] <mpt> hi andreasn
[13:58] <andreasn> hi mpt
[14:02] <andreasn> did you talk with kwwii and dobey about the -symbolic addition already?
[14:06] <mvo> mpt: thanks, code for this is commited
[14:09] <tedg> pitti: Thanks for the polkit patch!
[14:09] <pitti> tedg: my pleasure
[14:11] <pitti> tedg: I turned it into a proper merge request now
[14:12] <tedg> pitti: Yes, I saw, I'm merging it in.
[14:12] <pitti> hah, I have my 3vil footprint in your code now :)
[14:13] <tedg> Heh, I'm trying to attach all the bug numbers to make the commit. :)
[14:13] <mpt> mvo, would you rather bug 433828 be specced for 1.0, or left for 2.0?
[14:14] <tedg> That is one thing I really like about DVCS, much better credit to patch contributors.  I always felt I was letting them down a little when committing their patches before.
[14:15] <tedg> Now they get credit in sites like Ohloh as they have revisions attached to their name.
[14:15] <pitti> tedg: I added a --fixes lp: to my commit; are they getting merged? (I never checked that)
[14:16] <tedg> pitti: The --fixes lists that branch on the bug, it doesn't change the status or put the --fixes on the new branch.
[14:16] <tedg> So usually I try to re-put it on the merge to make it easier for people looking at the bug to see it got merged.
[14:16] <pitti> so the bug references aren't maintained when merging branches? too bad
[14:17] <tedg> They are from the perspective of LP never deletes anything and you can look at a branch, see it has a merge request, and see that the merge request was merged in.... but yeah, it's not ideal.
[14:18] <seb128> tedg, hey
[14:18] <tedg> Morning seb128
[14:19] <seb128> tedg, we always have credited contributors in changelog entries, commit messages, etc
[14:19] <tedg> seb128: Oh, yes.  But things like Ohloh don't pick that up.  It's hard to parse for a computer.
[14:19] <seb128> dunno what that website is ;-)
[14:20] <tedg> Heh, Fedora packaging is tracked there.  They have graphs, Ubuntu doesn't, so I imagine the Fedora packagers do more work :)
[14:21] <seb128> well we can't do a lot against random website having a partial view and collecting datas they want
[14:22] <mvo> mpt: hm, what exactly needs to be done? implementing  the arrow keys? or "on type earch, on arrow select category" ?
[14:22] <seb128> hum
[14:23] <seb128> anybody knowing what I need to do for launchpad to list my commits as coming from my user there?
[14:23] <seb128> they are from seb128 <seb128-desktop> right now
[14:23] <seb128> and I can't click on those
[14:23] <mpt> mvo, for that bug, just (1) focusing the search field when the Store is launched and (2) making the Down key at the end of the search text focus the rest of the main pane always, not just when search results are being shown.
[14:23] <seb128> while other people seem to have their name correctly set ;-)
[14:24] <tedg> seb128: "bzr whoami"
[14:24] <mvo> mpt: I think that can be arranged, let me check. I check out the arrow keys in JS as well, just to learn about it
[14:24] <pitti> seb128: what tedg said, for a default value
[14:24] <seb128> tedg, hum ok, thanks
[14:24] <mpt> mvo, navigating the department buttons with the arrow keys is something someone like aquarius needs to fix.
[14:24] <pitti> seb128: but I also have some magic to have context-sensitive email addresses
[14:24] <seb128> launchpad could be smart, I'm using my ssh key to commit there
[14:24] <pitti> seb128: in .bazaar/locations.conf:
[14:24] <pitti> [/home/martin/ubuntu]
[14:24] <pitti> email = Martin Pitt <martin.pitt@canonical.com>
[14:24] <pitti> [/home/martin/debian]
[14:24] <pitti> email = Martin Pitt <mpitt@debian.org>
[14:24] <seb128> ie it should know the user
[14:24] <pitti> and
[14:24] <pitti> $ bzr whoami
[14:24] <pitti> martin@piware.de
[14:24] <mpt> mvo, oh, well if you are able to fix it that's great, I just thought it might be more efficient to have a JS expert do it :-)
[14:25] <seb128> pitti, ah, thanks
[14:25] <pitti> seb128: bzr != launchpad, it needs to figure it out locally
[14:25] <pitti> seb128: so for my personal stuff I use @piware, for debian stuff @debian.org, etc.
[14:25] <seb128> pitti, will I just noticed on the launchpad view
[14:25] <tedg> seb128: You could register "seb128@seb128-desktop" as an e-mail address in LP and it'd pick them up :)
[14:26] <mvo> mpt: right, if I don't manage anything in a couple of minutes, I will just wait for him
[14:26] <seb128> tedg, I might do that, thanks ;-)
[14:26] <seb128> I will fix my settings too
[14:30] <didrocks> seb128: Quickly would have setup bzr whoami for you ;-)
[14:30] <seb128> didrocks, lol
[15:29] <strider> Hi
[15:30] <strider> can someone from the Desktop Team review this bugfix ? : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wacom-tools/+bug/410267
[15:30] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[15:30] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[15:30] <seb128> hi strider
[15:30] <rickspencer3> seb128: what's the word on the street? How's Karmic looking?
[15:31] <seb128> rickspencer3, desktop wise pretty good, most of GNOME 2.28 is in karmic now
[15:31] <rickspencer3> okay
[15:31] <seb128> not sure about those boot issues though
[15:31] <seb128> it seems still quite some users are hitting bugs
[15:31] <rickspencer3> seb128: anything specific in boot worrying you?
[15:32] <seb128> no, just the number of people joining on IRC to say their box doesn't boot
[15:32] <seb128> it's not exploding but that's some every day
[15:32] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3
[15:32] <rickspencer3> hmmmm
[15:32] <rickspencer3> hi didrocks
[15:34] <rickspencer3> seb128: when you see those issues, could you please take a moment and ensure that any bug reports are tagged with "ubuntu-boo" so they show up here:
[15:34] <rickspencer3> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.tag=ubuntu-boot
[15:34] <seb128> rickspencer3, yes
[15:34] <rickspencer3> thanks
[15:34] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: how does the ayatana beta bug list look?
[15:36] <kenvandine> nearly all the highs are fixed released
[15:36] <kenvandine> so not bad
[15:36] <kenvandine> pitti did the polkit port for indicator-session
[15:36] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[15:36] <kenvandine> notify-osd crashers still aren't fixed
[15:37] <kenvandine> but they are planned to be fixed for the thursday release
[15:37] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: can you please paste me link for ayatana beta milestone?
[15:37] <kenvandine> and the user list for the session applet should land today
[15:37] <kenvandine> https://edge.launchpad.net/ayatana/+milestone/ubuntu-9.10-beta-freeze
[15:37] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: also, I'm meeting with slangasek today to discuss things that will be landing late, etc...
[15:38] <kenvandine> ok
[15:39]  * kenvandine cries at bug 434097
[15:40] <kenvandine> makes sense... but means tweaking other packages
[15:49] <mpt> http://www.flickr.com/photos/vincentt/429341534/
[15:49]  * mpt wonders if it's even remotely possible to present this in an understandable way
[15:59] <davmor2> mvo: Bad news dude I get exactly the same thing on the installed version. click on any category and you get nothing displayed
[16:01] <davmor2> mvo: version is 0.3.7.1
[16:02] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: what are the consequences of ignoring bug 434097 for the time being
[16:02] <kenvandine> bad
[16:02] <kenvandine> it means the launchers won't get removed on upgrade
[16:02] <kenvandine> i think
[16:02] <kenvandine> it can't be much work
[16:03] <kenvandine> but it means touching a few other packages
[16:03] <kenvandine> it should be done before beta
[16:03] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: who is doing it?
[16:03] <kenvandine> i can do the apps
[16:03] <kenvandine> ted is doing indicator-messages
[16:03] <kenvandine> but we need indicator-messages fixed first
[16:04] <mvo> mpt: davmor2 did that work before? i mean, in a earlier install? I think its something to do with the way the livefs is created, a bug report would be good so that we can keep it on the radar
[16:04] <davmor2> mvo: doing so now
[16:06] <davmor2> mvo: this is on the installed system
[16:10] <mvo> davmor2: thanks, I think the root of the problem is that the software-store-db is empty on the livefs and remains being empty on the installed one as well
[16:11] <davmor2> mvo: bug 434699  that would sound plausible as it doesn't show any installed apps either
[16:14] <Amaranth> mvo: Did you see how that really neat compiz feature to keep plugins specified on the command line came back to bite us?
[16:15] <mvo> davmor2: thanks
[16:15] <davmor2> no probs
[16:15] <mvo> Amaranth: no, in what way?
[16:15] <Amaranth> keybindings were being lost because gnome-wm runs `compiz gconf` so gconf and ccp were specified on the command line and thus neither one could be unloaded
[16:15] <mvo> oh bugger - that is the cause of the keybinding fialures?
[16:15] <mvo> heh :)
[16:15] <Amaranth> That's why switching to metacity and back fixed it, it stopped running gnome-wm
[16:16] <mvo> cool that you found it!
[16:16] <Amaranth> it's an upgrade problem
[16:16] <mvo> can't we just fix gnome-wm ?
[16:16] <Amaranth> I think robert-ancell may have done so already
[16:17] <mvo> great
[16:17] <Amaranth> someone PMed after I left a note in the bug report and I had him send me his ~/.gconf, was pretty easy after that :)
[16:17]  * mvo hugs Amaranth
[16:21] <tseliot> Amaranth: is there a bug report about gnome-wm?
[16:22] <Amaranth> tseliot: bug 430981
[16:22] <tseliot> Amaranth: thanks
[16:22] <Amaranth> hrm, apparently my old laptop's HD is failing
[16:23] <Amaranth> "DISK FAILURE IS IMMINENT" it says
[16:24] <Amaranth> even my BiOS says it's trashed :/
[16:25]  * asac has to run some errands ... be back for team meeting
[16:30] <seb128> Amaranth, seems that's still a compiz issue
[16:30] <seb128> Amaranth, the both plugins load so none is working issue
[16:31] <Amaranth> seb128: start compiz the wrong way, get the wrong result
[16:31] <seb128> compiz could be robust there
[16:31] <seb128> that used to work correctly
[16:31] <seb128> it breaks things which were working
[16:32] <Amaranth> It could be but that's a bunch of code to add to compiz or a one line change to gnome-wm
[16:32] <seb128> which one? ;-)
[16:42] <huats> seb128:  How do I proceed to update bug-buddy.I mean it is in universe so I can upload it... The I think I will :) I have opened a bug for the update, and I can attach the bzr branch in it... If someone merge it with the desktop team one, is it ok ?
[16:43] <seb128> huats, yes
[16:43] <huats> ok
[16:43] <huats> great
[16:43] <seb128> I'm not sure why it's in the desktop team bzr
[16:43] <huats> Don't knoweither :)
[16:43] <seb128> if it's universe it should probably not be there
[16:43] <pitti> we can just re-own the branch to ~ubuntu-dev
[16:43] <pitti> huats: if you could update vcs-bzr on the next upload?
[16:44] <huats> pitti I haven't upload it yet
[16:44] <huats> so I can do it now...
[16:45] <pitti> huats: what's the current branch?
[16:45] <pitti> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bug-buddy doesn't exist..
[16:45] <pitti> argh , no ~
[16:45] <huats> pitti: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/bug-buddy/ubuntu
[16:45] <pitti> huats: changed
[16:46] <pitti> huats: please push your changes there and update vcs-bzr:
[16:48] <huats> pitti: I will push my changes in my own branch (I cannot write to ~ubuntu-desktop), changing the vcs-bzr to lp:~ubuntu-dev/bug-buddy/ubuntu
[16:48] <pitti> mat_t: hi
[16:48] <huats> is it ok  ?
[16:48] <pitti> huats: ~ubuntu-desktop/bug-buddy/ubuntu is no more
[16:48] <huats> ok
[16:48] <pitti> huats: just push you's to ~ubuntu-dev/bug-buddy/ubuntu
[16:49] <huats> ok
[16:49] <pitti> huats: I re-owned the existing branch
[16:49] <huats> will do
[16:49] <huats> just let me finsih the test run :) (andthus to download all its deps)
[16:54] <pitti> tedg, kenvandine: hm, I now get a green message dot on the indicator applet whenever someone appears
[16:54] <pitti> is that on purpose?
[16:55] <pitti> if so, can I tell it not to do so?
[16:55] <tedg> pitti: Well, now that application chooses that.  But, no application should do that.
[16:55] <tedg> pitti: What app are you using?
[16:55] <pitti> tedg: I can't tell whether I have pending messages (urgent) or just appeared people (usually uninteresting to me)
[16:55] <pitti> tedg: empathy
[16:55] <tedg> Okay, we need to fix that in Empathy.
[16:55] <kenvandine> pitti, oh... green dot on presence changes?
[16:55] <kenvandine> ok
[16:55] <pitti> want a bug report?
[16:55] <kenvandine> pitti, please file a bug and assign to me
[16:56] <pitti> roger
[16:56] <tedg> It shouldn't be setting draw attention for people logging in and out.
[16:56] <kenvandine> tedg, agreed... that means it is using the same code though... so i need to tear that apart a bit
[16:56] <tedg> (ironically, this was actually the reason we created the draw attention field)
[16:56] <rugby471> mvo, mpt, mac_v: hello
[16:56] <kenvandine> i only added the draw-attention in one place
[16:56] <tedg> kenvandine: Ah, okay.
[16:56] <mpt> rugby471, hello, do you need some bugs to fix? :-)
[16:56] <rugby471> mvo: 3/4 way through integrating the historyview :-)
[16:56] <mvo> hey rugby471
[16:57] <rugby471> mpt: maybe a bit later :-)
[16:57] <mpt> ok
[16:57] <kenvandine> tedg, so probably gonna be a little more than a one liner :)
[16:57] <mpt> mvo, oh, you're alive! I was going to ask you in our call about bug 396527
[16:57] <pitti> meh, ubuntu-bug doesn't work
[16:57] <pitti> firefox keeps crashing
[16:58] <tedg> kenvandine: The actual details are left to the reader :)  /me should write textbooks
[16:58] <mvo> mpt: I'm wokring on it, it should actually be working now, probably needs a bit more testing love
[16:59] <mvo> mpt: did you try to reach me earlier? I'm here since ~8h or so
[16:59] <mpt> mvo, yes, 88 minutes ago
[16:59] <mpt> mvo, my first question was: How often does this happen with multiple configuration files for the same package?
[16:59] <mpt> Or is that case not worth worrying about?
[17:00] <mvo> mpt: how odd, i can not see it in the backlog and I seem to have not dropped offline since, what was the exact timestamp?
[17:01] <mvo> mpt: it may happen to any number of configuration files, but it usually just happens for one or two files (if it happens at all)
[17:01] <mvo> mpt: it does not happen frequently
[17:01] <mvo> (ie. I think most people will never see it)
[17:01] <mpt> ok
[17:01] <mat_t> hi pitti
[17:02] <pitti> mat_t: sent mail about the usplash theme now
[17:02] <mat_t> pitti: ok, checking
[17:02] <pitti> mat_t: I'm afraid I need your gimp sk1llz
[17:02] <pitti> (or whichever program you are using)
[17:02] <mat_t> :)
[17:03] <mpt> mvo, whenever it happens to me, it's usually a file I have no clue about
[17:03] <mvo> mpt: if that is the case, then that is a bug in the package, it should only ever happen if that file was modified by you. but there are bugs here, no question about this
[17:04] <mat_t> pitti: np, I'll get you the images in a bit
[17:05] <Riddelll> is there a desktop meeting today?
[17:05] <seb128> yes
[17:05] <pitti> kenvandine: done, bug 434726
[17:05] <seb128> kenvandine, is it normal that clicking on the empathy notification area icon doesn't toggle user list visibility?
[17:05] <mpt> mvo, next question: When it says "The configuration file ... was modified", how exactly does it know?
[17:06] <kenvandine> seb128, it shouldn't toggle, it should always show
[17:06] <seb128> kenvandine, I don't want to always show it
[17:06] <mvo> mpt: it compares the file in the deb package to the file on disk (and that to the file that was in the previous deb package). if the file in the previous deb and the new deb differ it shows the dialog *if* the file was modified by the user
[17:06] <mvo> (or by a script)
[17:07] <seb128> kenvandine, I've no user for a user list on screen all the time
[17:07] <seb128> "no use"
[17:07] <kenvandine> seb128, we did that based on direction from the design team
[17:07] <kenvandine> yeah... well you can close it :)
[17:07] <seb128> bah
[17:07] <kenvandine> mpt could defend it :)
[17:07] <mpt> mvo, so for every file that the new .deb is going to write, dpkg goes looking to see if that same file was previously put there by another .deb?
[17:07] <seb128> I start being really annoyed by the design team
[17:07] <mpt> kenvandine, I doubt it, I don't think Empathy should have a notification area icon.
[17:07] <seb128> half of the changes they ask for just break things most users rely on
[17:08] <rugby471> mvo: I am creating a new branch for the history stuff, for the old branch, do you want me to revert including the dependency dialog changes, or put them in the post karmic branch?
[17:08] <kenvandine> actually... it shouldn't
[17:08] <kenvandine> seb128, notification area icon or indicator?
[17:08] <seb128> both
[17:08] <seb128> none toggle visiblity
[17:08] <kenvandine> you shouldn't see the icon if it is in the indicator
[17:08] <seb128> I've both
[17:08] <kenvandine> humm
[17:09] <mvo> mpt: yes, pretty much, this particular check is only done for files in /etc (that is slighly simplified but close enough)
[17:09] <mvo> mpt: so old-deb, new-deb and check if it got modified in between
[17:09] <pitti> I just have the indicator (no empaty tray icon), and I have no way to hide the user list now
[17:09] <mvo> if it is not modified, it will just be overwriten
[17:09] <seb128> kenvandine, we are letting the choice to users to have the traditional behaviour right?
[17:09] <mpt> mvo, so how would this ever happen for something that isn't an update of a package?
[17:09] <kenvandine> seb128, did we with pidgin?
[17:10] <seb128> yes
[17:10] <kenvandine> i think pidgin hide the icon if it was in the indicator
[17:10] <pitti> oh, I think you can just close the window, can you?
[17:10] <seb128> it is a preference option
[17:10] <kenvandine> if you uncheck the indicator, you will get the icon
[17:10] <seb128> we set the "show notification area icon" to no by default
[17:10] <kenvandine> pitti, yes
[17:10] <seb128> but you can change it to always
[17:10] <mpt> mvo, e.g. if you're installing one application, in what sort of cases does it overwrite a configuration file from another application?
[17:10] <pitti> right, that workd
[17:10] <kenvandine> seb128, but we don't want both... right?
[17:10] <kenvandine> one or the other
[17:10] <seb128> I do
[17:10] <kenvandine> humm
[17:10] <seb128> I want the icon to show and hide the list
[17:10] <seb128> and the indicator to collect messages
[17:10] <kenvandine> mpt, do we want to support that use case?
[17:11] <mvo> mpt: its the upgrade case we worry about, but we do support upgrades of packages in the store currently
[17:11] <seb128> lot of users are going to be really unhappy if you don't
[17:11] <seb128> and that starts with me
[17:11] <mvo> mpt: a package should not do that (overwrite a configuraiton in another package)
[17:11] <kenvandine> :)
[17:11] <seb128> why shouldn't be able to show and hide the buddy list as I'm doing for years?
[17:11] <pitti> so hiding is easy, just close the windwo
[17:11] <mpt> kenvandine, a major purpose of the messaging menu is to abolish all the other IM notification area icons.
[17:11] <pitti> seb128: you mean on the empathy tray icon?
[17:11] <seb128> yes
[17:11] <pitti> seb128: yes, that should just continue to work
[17:11] <pitti> we don't even show it by default
[17:11] <seb128> pitti, it doesn't
[17:12] <pitti> so I don't see a reason to break it
[17:12] <seb128> clicking the icon stopped hidding the list
[17:12] <mpt> mvo, so when this happens with the Store, it's because an application is misbehaving?
[17:12] <pitti> disabling toggling from the indicator menu makes more sense
[17:12] <kenvandine> seb128, we should change that back to toggle
[17:12] <kenvandine> seb128, file a bug for that
[17:12] <mvo> mpt: that or the user selected to upgrade a package withtin the store
[17:12] <pitti> kenvandine: can we have toggle on the empathy icon and retain non-toggle on the indicator menu?
[17:12] <mpt> mvo, ... upgrade a package within the store? How?
[17:13] <kenvandine> pitti, well... it would require a little extra code
[17:13] <kenvandine> but we should be able to
[17:13] <mvo> mpt: there is a upgrade button in the store if the app can be upgraded
[17:13] <seb128> kenvandine, ok thanks
[17:14] <mvo> (we also have a bug about this - lp #432610)
[17:14] <mpt> mvo, oh, so this entire problem, and that one too, is because you decided to let the Store upgrade packages as well as installing and removing them? :-)
[17:14] <seb128> kenvandine, can you also reply on bug #434121?
[17:15] <mvo> mpt: I'm not sure I decided that, but I might have mis-read/heared it in the flurry of spec updates
[17:15] <mvo> mpt: if it should be removed I can do that
[17:15] <mpt> mvo, to be fair, probably we would have introduced that eventually, but an easy way to fix both those bugs for now would be to get rid of the Upgrade button
[17:15] <mat_t> pitti: sent!
[17:15] <pitti> mat_t: wow, that was fast
[17:16] <mpt> mvo, unless you think it's still important to handle the case where an app being installed overwrites another app's config file.
[17:16] <mvo> mpt: but I still think that having support for the case should be there, just in case something requires it because of oddness somewhere (e.g. a package install triggers a removal of another package and they share a coffile without proper cleanup in between or somesuch)
[17:18] <mvo> mpt: but it means the urgency of a good design for the dialog is not that high given that it will be displayed only in rare circumstances
[17:19] <pitti> mat_t: hm, now the pictures just have a gray palette
[17:19] <mpt> mvo, in that example you just gave, if that triggered uninstallation happens first, how does dpkg then know that the file it's about to replace belonged to a particular package that's not there any more?
[17:19] <pitti> mat_t: do you know how to change that to a palette with real colors, such as teh standard web 256 colors?
[17:19] <mvo> mpt: it keeps two states, removed and purged. only the later kills config files
[17:19] <pitti> mat_t: I can't have red text with just a gray palette :-)
[17:19] <mvo> mpt: a remove will leave those files in the dpkg db
[17:20] <mpt> mvo, is that what Synaptic tries to convey with "Mark for Removal" vs. "Mark for Complete Removal"?
[17:21] <mvo> mpt: yes, a purge can mean more than that though, a purge might remove a generated database for example. a remove may leave it in place
[17:21] <mpt> ok
[17:21] <mvo> mpt: the exact meaning differs from package to package, but purge means "get rid of everything, even stuff that can not be re-created again via a install"
[17:22] <pitti> asac, ccheney, Riddelll, tkamppeter: can you please put in your activity reports to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-09-22 or mail them to me?
[17:22] <mvo> mpt: its dinner time here, I will read scrollback if you have more questions
[17:22] <mpt> mvo, I guess in future we could show the size taken up by those files, to help you make an informed decision about whether you want to purge them
[17:22] <mpt> mvo, ok, thanks
[17:22] <mvo> mpt: yes
[17:22] <mvo> mpt: well, that is tricky in the case of the database example because we have no way of knwoing that size
[17:23] <Riddelll> pitti: oh?  what have you done to rick?
[17:23] <mpt> mvo, quick question: When this conflict arrives, is it always too late to cancel the installation?
[17:23] <mvo> mpt: its only via the maintainer scripts that the package gets purged and the exact semantic depends on the action of that script
[17:23] <pitti> Riddelll: I've sent him to LinuxCon :-P
[17:23] <mvo> mpt: yes, we could try to detect them upfront, but that is not 100% reliable
[17:23]  * mvo is away
[17:23] <mpt> ok, thanks
[17:24] <mat_t> pitti: OK, I'll convert them to web colors
[17:24] <pitti> mat_t: thanks
[17:24] <mat_t> pitti: why can't you have red and grey?
[17:25] <pitti> mat_t: there are plenty of grey colors in your palette, but no red
[17:25] <mpt> rugby471, another challenge for you will be to import the past Commit Logs into your XML history :-)
[17:25] <mat_t> aaah, I see
[17:25] <mat_t> I didn't know it had to be included in the image palette :)
[17:25] <pitti> mat_t: usplash's design is pretty limited in that regard, sorry
[17:25] <mat_t> cool, np
[17:25] <mat_t> I'll do it now
[17:25] <mat_t> web palette will have red :)
[17:25] <pitti> mat_t: it made a few basic assumptions about the themes and graphics drivers in the beginning which are very hard to change
[17:26] <mat_t> I see
[17:26] <pitti> mat_t: muchas gracias
[17:26] <mat_t> np!
[17:26] <mat_t> ;)
[17:27] <djsiegel> seb128: , where's rick?
[17:27] <kenvandine> djsiegel, linuxcon
[17:27] <djsiegel> ok
[17:28] <seb128> djsiegel, do you need something?
[17:28] <djsiegel> So, we are turning humanity on by default on the desktop.
[17:28] <djsiegel> And I was tasked with making sure (1) it gets put in the beta, and (2) it's easy to revert to human if the powers that be decide against it at the last moment.
[17:29] <seb128> both are easy
[17:29] <Amaranth> humanity doesn't have a colorless icon for bluetooth :/
[17:29] <djsiegel> fantastic
[17:29] <Amaranth> makes it looks funky
[17:29] <pitti> asac, tseliot, ArneGoetje, ccheney, Riddelll, kenvandine, seb128, tkamppeter: ready for meeting?
[17:29] <djsiegel> Amaranth: it doesn't have colorless for everything, unfortunately
[17:29] <seb128> pitti, ^ can you do the change to install it by default?
[17:29] <Riddelll> yay, meeting!
[17:29] <mat_t> pitti: I'm pretty sure that we had images with less restrictive palette before
[17:29] <seb128> pitti, I will change the default schemas
[17:29] <kenvandine> yup
[17:30] <tseliot> here I am :-)
[17:30] <seb128> pitti, yes, ready for meeting
[17:30] <pitti> mat_t: the palette can be arbitrary; the only limitation is that the text colors must be in the palette of the image
[17:30] <ArneGoetje> pitti: here
[17:30] <mat_t> pitti: OK, I see
[17:30] <pitti> seb128: which change? can we do that after meeting?
[17:30] <seb128> pitti, yes, after meeting
[17:30] <asac> hi
[17:31] <seb128> pitti, <djsiegel> So, we are turning humanity on by default on the desktop.
[17:31]  * asac  lands in a hurry
[17:31] <pitti> so, welcome to our meeting this week
[17:31] <pitti> FAQ: Where's Rick?  A: LinuxCon
[17:31] <pitti> == Actions from previous meetings ==
[17:31] <pitti> All actions are to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage:
[17:32] <pitti> ACTION: TheMuso to check on how to call the audio symptom script and update the wiki accordingly
[17:32] <pitti> This wasn't done, I'll mail him and push forward
[17:32] <pitti> ACTION: robert_ancell to check on Graphic Environment section
[17:32] <pitti> no compiz there, dito
[17:32] <pitti> ACTION: pitti to add section about storage devices
[17:32] <pitti> done
[17:33] <pitti> speaking about that, did you hear some feedback about the changed bug process?
[17:33] <pitti> and noticed some change in the reported bugs?
[17:33] <asac> nope ;) ... just that i cannot file directly easily
[17:33] <pitti> firefox now crashes with a "bad x window" error every time I use ubuntu-bug, that might help to reduce the bug flow  *evil grin*
[17:33] <asac> ok
[17:33] <seb128> ;-)
[17:33] <asac> i will patch that out before beta
[17:33] <tseliot> heh
[17:34] <seb128> lot of people complained about that
[17:34] <pitti> asac: I actually meant for bugs that you receive
[17:34] <seb128> that = the firefox crash
[17:34] <pitti> ah
[17:34] <seb128> there was some legitim concerns on the list about the change itself too
[17:34] <asac> yes.
[17:34] <asac> its time to hide it ;)
[17:34] <pitti> right, I'm primarily interested in the workflow feedback, not that ff bug
[17:34] <asac> i really want to have a link to do it directly somewhere
[17:35] <seb128> I find it annoying to not be able to open bugs from the webui
[17:35] <pitti> of course there's always the usual opposition to change, but I wondered about which legitimate reasons there were for filing them directly
[17:35] <awe> +1
[17:35] <seb128> I do that most of the time because that's easier and faster
[17:35] <asac> pitti: what other changes were done besides not being able to report directly?
[17:35] <asac> is there a document?
[17:35] <asac> seb128: ++
[17:35] <seb128> people in the bug team who can set status etc should be able to file bugs imho
[17:35] <tseliot> seb128: +++
[17:35] <pitti> asac: primarily that; we're updating https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage along with it
[17:35] <seb128> I never know which team that is
[17:35] <pitti> seb128: ubuntu-bugcontrol
[17:35] <asac> ok
[17:35] <seb128> bugsquad? bug control?
[17:35] <seb128> ok
[17:35] <asac> so please add an option to report directly somewhere (hidden)
[17:36] <asac> thats what i want ;)
[17:36] <seb128> so people in that team should have the filebug not hidden
[17:36] <pitti> anyway, there's the ?no-direct argument, but it's not easy to find
[17:36] <ArneGoetje> I usually file translation related bugs directly, as I don't need to have the package installed for that
[17:36] <seb128> it impacts productivity
[17:36] <pitti> asac: it does exist, just hidden, as I said
[17:36] <asac> pitti: i found that but its event hard to type because you dont get the +submit anymore
[17:36] <pitti> ArneGoetje: good one
[17:36] <asac> pitti: i want that hidden on the webui somewhere ;)
[17:36] <seb128> same for workflow bugs
[17:36] <asac> like a tiny link at the bottom of the bug page or something
[17:36] <seb128> I've added ?no-redirect to versions though
[17:36] <seb128> so that's ok
[17:37] <mat_t> pitti: done!
[17:37] <pitti> ok, thanks
[17:37] <seb128> otherwise some people have legitim concerns
[17:37] <seb128> like they don't want to risk sending private datas
[17:37] <pitti> ACTION: pitti to talk to bdmurray about +filebug feedback
[17:37] <seb128> or are on an enterprise proxy which doesn't allow apport use
[17:37] <pitti> so we could perhaps bring it back, but replace it with a page which gives you better instructions, and require an additional step to file it directly?
[17:38] <seb128> well, I would be in favor of having the url in the page as well
[17:38] <seb128> and don't redirect bug control people
[17:38] <asac> i would say: if you click on report a bug you go to an error page
[17:38] <pitti> I do like the idea of pointing at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage in general, but perhaps not so insistant?
[17:38] <asac> that triggeres ubuntu-bug
[17:38] <asac> and that also has a link to "yes, i want to continue"
[17:38] <awe> asac, i like that idea
[17:39] <pitti> asac: that requries a browser plugin, though, no?
[17:39] <asac> "yes, i know about the implications and I still want to file the bug directly" ;)
[17:39] <pitti> but at least the page could say "Please follow these instructions:" [find right package] [launch ubuntu-bug]
[17:39] <seb128> I'm not in favor of this one
[17:39] <seb128> people tend to not read and just click
[17:39] <asac> pitti: a protocol handler like apturil
[17:39] <pitti> and then a small link at the bottom which continues on the web?
[17:39] <asac> ubuntu-bug:file/firefox-3.5
[17:39] <pitti> asac: probably a bit out of scope for karmic, though?
[17:40] <pitti> and wouldn't work for other browsers, too?
[17:40] <asac> I dont have time before beta for that. yes.
[17:40] <seb128> easy change: set the url to file a bug anyway on the explanation page + don't redirect bug control
[17:40] <pitti> so let's perhaps keep it low-tech for now
[17:40] <asac> can we teach the wiki page
[17:40] <asac> to display something dynamic?
[17:41] <pitti> not with being a wiki page
[17:41] <asac> or is that all static ... otherwise i would go to the current wiki page and have the right link to file directly at the bottom
[17:41] <asac> but we probably could move that somewhere else?
[17:41] <pitti> LP has the concept of "bug filing instructions"
[17:41] <pitti> but they appear way too late
[17:42] <pitti> at that point most people won't bother any more
[17:42] <asac> agree
[17:42] <pitti> they already picked a package and a title
[17:42] <asac> can we not redirect, but proxy the wiki page?
[17:42] <pitti> so something that resembles https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage but offers you a link to "file it anyway" woudl be okay for everyone for now?
[17:42] <asac> that would at least allow me to append the ?direct
[17:43] <asac> to the current url
[17:43] <seb128> pitti, did you read what I said before?
[17:43] <asac> currently i have to copy the url ... paste it in location bar ... add ?direct .. etc.
[17:43] <pitti> seb128: I did
[17:43] <seb128> ok, good
[17:43] <asac> seb128: what explanation page?
[17:43] <Amaranth> This sounds like a job for a userscript :)
[17:43] <pitti> but bug filing behaving differently for different people makes it even more confusing perhaps?
[17:43] <seb128> asac, whever you are redirected right now ...
[17:44] <seb128> wherever
[17:44] <asac> seb128:  the wiki page is not dynamix
[17:44] <seb128> I didn't say we it to be?
[17:44] <seb128> I said the add an url to file anyway to it
[17:44] <pitti> anyway, I think we covered the arguments sufficiently, I think we should put the details to mail now
[17:44] <asac> seb128: but how can you put a url to file a bug against a specific package there
[17:44] <seb128> and make launchpad only redirect !bugcontrol
[17:44] <Amaranth> ubuntu-bugcontrol people tend to use firefox-lp-enhancements package or whatever, right? just add a userscript that automatically adds the ?no-redirect
[17:44] <asac> if its not dynamic you could just make a general "file a bug anyway against ubuntu"
[17:45] <seb128> hum, right
[17:45] <asac> seb128: i think redirecting !bugcontrol would be a good start
[17:45] <asac> if thats easier
[17:45] <pitti> ok, thanks
[17:45] <pitti> so, let's go on
[17:46] <pitti> [17:46] <pitti> kenvandine?
[17:46] <kenvandine> ok
[17:46] <kenvandine> i haven't gotten an update from OLS, they are sprinting and haven't responded
[17:46] <kenvandine> but i posted what i know on the wiki
[17:46] <kenvandine> couch shouldn't start at boot anymore
[17:47] <kenvandine> and we need desktopcouch and bindwood releases before sync can be turned on
[17:47] <kenvandine> i hope they are expecting to do that this week
[17:47] <pitti> bindwood/desktopcouch peer syncing very much sound like a new feature?
[17:47] <kenvandine> i will chase them down today
[17:47] <seb128> asac, pitti: bug #432088 btw
[17:47] <kenvandine> pitti, the feature is there... just turned off right now
[17:47] <pitti> kenvandine: so it's never been tested, etc.
[17:47] <kenvandine> they had to wait for oauth to be fixed in couch
[17:47] <asac> thx
[17:48] <kenvandine> pitti, ok, if we need to get a freeze exception i can get them going on that
[17:48] <kenvandine> i had told them they might need to
[17:48] <pitti> it's very late already, beta is next week!
[17:48]  * tseliot has to leave in a few minutes
[17:48] <kenvandine> i know!
[17:48] <pitti> tseliot: anythign on your heart which we need to discuss?
[17:48] <pitti> tseliot: great work on X this week, btw! *hug*
[17:48] <tseliot> pitti: nothing comes to my mind atm
[17:49] <tseliot> and thanks :-)
[17:49] <kenvandine> ubuntuone client is most likely to need a UI exception for the preferences problem they have
[17:49] <pitti> kenvandine: so on the DX front we mainly deal with bugs now, right? is there anythign still pending to land?
[17:49] <pitti> oh, there's new gdm artwork
[17:49] <kenvandine> right now it is pretty easy to get into a situation where you can't get back to preferences
[17:49] <kenvandine> pitti, the user list
[17:50] <seb128> pitti, I'm a bit concerned that the message indicator behaviour is still fuzzy and changing
[17:50] <pitti> kenvandine: ah, right
[17:50] <kenvandine> that is landing today i think in time for thursday
[17:50] <pitti> seb128: *nod*; some recent regressions there
[17:50] <kenvandine> we need a good list of those asap
[17:51] <kenvandine> the MC5 port for indicator-session needs to happen asap too
[17:51] <kenvandine> should be in by thursday
[17:51] <pitti> ok, thanks
[17:51] <kenvandine> seb128, please make sure issues you find with the indicator all have bugs and that i know about them
[17:52] <kenvandine> feel free to assign them to me and i will make sure the right people are looking at them
[17:52] <kenvandine> same goes for everyone
[17:52] <seb128> kenvandine, how do we make sure you know about those bugs? subscribing you is enough?
[17:52] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:52] <kenvandine> ping me on irc
[17:52] <seb128> ok, will do
[17:52] <kenvandine> assign to me
[17:52] <kenvandine> etc
[17:52] <seb128> would be nice if you could watch empathy bugs for a bit too
[17:52] <kenvandine> if they aren't assigned, assign to me
[17:52] <seb128> since you landed changes recently there
[17:52] <kenvandine> i am
[17:53] <seb128> ok good
[17:53] <seb128> thanks!
[17:53] <pitti> == Kubuntu Update ==
[17:53] <Riddelll> ooh that's me
[17:53] <pitti> Riddelll: floor's your's
[17:53] <Riddelll>  - DVDs oversized, next Amarok upload may fix that
[17:53] <Riddelll>  - OEM installer broken, but broken in Ubuntu Desktop too
[17:53] <Riddelll>  - Upgrade from Jaunty works but with some config file quirks that I need to work around
[17:53] <Riddelll>  - jockey and apport still need investigation
[17:53] <Riddelll> (unless pitti has done anything with apport)
[17:53] <Riddelll> that's all
[17:54] <pitti> Riddelll: I didn't really
[17:54] <pitti> I got the latest kubuntu netbook image, but didn't have time to check out apport on it yet
[17:54] <Riddelll> I'll ping yuiry
[17:54] <pitti> I still didn't see the patch that he has for fixing it
[17:55] <pitti> DVDs oversized> ubuntu suffers the same, so if anyone has brilliant ideas what to kick..
[17:55] <Amaranth> pitti: evolution!
[17:55] <asac> DVDs oversized and CDs are fine? fun
[17:55] <asac> what is going on a DVD? all main?
[17:56] <pitti> no, it's a seed
[17:56] <Riddelll> asac: it's a separate seed, but e.g. all language packs
[17:56] <pitti> but just a side remark, no need to discuss in meeting
[17:56] <Riddelll> infact all language packs twice
[17:56] <asac> oh
[17:56] <pitti> Riddelll: we kicked most langpacks from dvd-ship
[17:56] <pitti> you might want to do the same
[17:56] <pitti> you still have them in the live system, and for alternate the installer will fetch them
[17:56] <pitti> it's the least evil and brings some 200 MB
[17:57] <pitti> Riddelll: what's the latest word on the n-m front?
[17:58] <Riddelll> pitti: works fine for wifi and ethernet it seems, although it's one of the upgrade quirks I need to hack around
[17:58] <pitti> sounds like progress, though
[17:58] <pitti> == Release Bugs/Release Status ==
[17:58] <asac> Riddelll: any info on modem?
[17:59]  * pitti on hold
[17:59] <asac> no need to wait
[17:59] <Riddelll> asac: my 3G one didn't work with  nm-applet, you wanted me to test with --debug didn't you?
[17:59] <asac> Riddelll: yes.
[17:59] <asac> Riddelll: lets talk after meeting
[17:59] <asac> pitti: go ahead
[17:59] <Riddelll> asac: yep
[18:00] <pitti> so, I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus last Friday, and some more updates today
[18:00] <pitti> it's pretty up to date now
[18:00] <pitti> we have done good work on the RC bug front, but they keep coming
[18:00] <pitti> thanks to seb128 for putting together a GNOME specific variant of that list
[18:01] <pitti> so, just as a general reminder, if you have bugs which are critical to Karmic's success, please add a karmic task and set it to high or critical
[18:01] <seb128> you're welcome!
[18:01] <pitti> seb128: ^ that might apply to some of your's
[18:01] <pitti> so that they are on the release team radar and have no problem with getting approved for upload after freezes, etc.
[18:01] <seb128> right, I plan to do that too
[18:01] <seb128> building a karmic list first then adjusting settings
[18:02] <pitti> awesome
[18:02] <pitti> with karmic being the crack release we shouldn't be too picky
[18:02] <pitti> we'll have plenty of time to fix and polish Lucid
[18:02] <pitti> but still, some of those bugs are serious for karmic, too
[18:03] <pitti> ok, == rickspencer3's list of heartache ==
[18:03] <pitti> let's walk through them, shall we?
[18:03] <kenvandine> sounds like fun
[18:03] <pitti> ubuntu-boot bugs> let's skip that one, -EWRONGTEAM
[18:03] <pitti> and Rick follows them like a hound dog
[18:03] <pitti> applying his whip cracking approach..
[18:04] <pitti> - empathy audio/video is crashy
[18:04] <kenvandine> pitti, i am going to spend time debugging that this week
[18:04] <kenvandine> audio has been pretty solid lately
[18:04] <kenvandine> afaik
[18:04] <pitti> kenvandine: we can certainly get help from upstream (hey cassidy!) for that?
[18:04] <kenvandine> yeah :)
[18:04] <pitti> they might have some hints what we do wrong in terms of versions/packaging
[18:04] <kenvandine> sure
[18:05] <pitti> do we have the fallback option to disable video?
[18:05] <pitti> better to not offer it at all, than to show the button and just crash..
[18:05] <kenvandine> i suspect we can...
[18:05] <kenvandine> i will look into that
[18:05] <cassidy> pitti, what's the problem?
[18:05] <kenvandine> per protocal right?
[18:05] <kenvandine> cassidy, video crashes empathy
[18:05] <kenvandine> consistently
[18:05] <cassidy> oh that's annoying
[18:05] <kenvandine> via jabber
[18:05] <kenvandine> cassidy, i will chase you down after the meeting ok?
[18:05] <cassidy> did you upgrade to the latest telepathy-farsight ?
[18:06] <pitti> thanks
[18:06] <kenvandine> cassidy, yes
[18:06] <pitti> kenvandine: can you please make sure that there's a bug to track?
[18:06] <kenvandine> ok
[18:06] <pitti> ACTION: kenvandine to file a bug about empathy video crash and discuss with upstream
[18:06] <pitti> - empathy not interacting well with messaging menu
[18:06] <cassidy> kenvandine, this one https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-farsight/+bug/433461
[18:06] <pitti> I think that's covered by bug reports
[18:06] <pitti> Is there something keeping compiz from working on intel 945?
[18:07] <Amaranth> Not that I've heard, are you having problems?
[18:07] <pitti> is that related to bug 392039?
[18:07] <cassidy> kenvandine, will fly away soon; please open a bugs including logs etc, I'll have a look at it tomorrow
[18:07] <Amaranth> Oh, right, that fun
[18:07] <Amaranth> Yeah, that's ubuntu-boot stuff
[18:07] <pitti> Amaranth, cassidy: can we please discuss after meeting?
[18:07] <cassidy> pitti, sure
[18:07] <pitti> I have a 945, and it mostly works, except when the initramfs fails to enable KMS
[18:08] <pitti> kenvandine: can you do the three gwibber ones?
[18:08]  * pitti has NFC about gwibber, I'm afraid
[18:08] <kenvandine> well
[18:08] <kenvandine> i can't repro the not seeing messages
[18:08] <kenvandine> i need debugging info
[18:09] <kenvandine>  the indicator behavior shouldn't be pretty decent now (as of yesterday)
[18:09] <kenvandine> if not i need bug reports
[18:09] <pitti> ok, nevermind that then; Rick should file a bug then
[18:09] <kenvandine> :)
[18:09] <pitti> kenvandine: s/shouldn't/should/?
[18:09] <kenvandine> should
[18:09] <kenvandine> right :)
[18:09] <pitti> session menu - status interactions with apps not working well
[18:10] <pitti> that's the empathy/pidgin integration
[18:10] <pitti> kenvandine: do you happen to know about this?
[18:10] <kenvandine> yeah
[18:10] <kenvandine> that is the MC5 port
[18:10] <kenvandine> right now it gets/sets the status based on MC4
[18:10] <kenvandine> it is being worked on now
[18:10] <kenvandine> should land before thursday
[18:10] <pitti> nice
[18:11]  * pitti looks forward to Thursday
[18:11] <pitti> software-store -- is it showing up in the right places?
[18:11] <pitti> I think it does now, right?
[18:11] <pitti> I have it in the apps menu
[18:11] <pitti> (license and naming is a separate topic)
[18:11] <seb128> yes
[18:11] <Amaranth> Is it supposed to show up in System->Administration?
[18:11] <kenvandine> no
[18:11] <kenvandine> applications
[18:11] <Amaranth> it does :)
[18:11] <kenvandine> it is
[18:11] <kenvandine> :)
[18:11] <pitti> oh, right, it does
[18:12] <kenvandine> in applications
[18:12] <seb128> it does in both
[18:12] <kenvandine> oh
[18:12] <seb128> what was gnome-app-install doing?
[18:12] <kenvandine> both
[18:12] <kenvandine> ok
[18:12] <Amaranth> that's because of Categories
[18:12] <pitti> so we probably need to fix that
[18:12] <seb128> in any case iz mvo bog
[18:12] <seb128> ie wrong team
[18:12] <pitti> ok
[18:12] <Amaranth> seb128: gnome-app-install.desktop had no Categories so it would have ended up in Other if you didn't have the <Include> rule
[18:12] <pitti> so, == work items ==
[18:12] <pitti> http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/karmic/report.html
[18:13] <pitti> we clearly need to postpone stuff now
[18:13] <pitti> unless someone magically has done work items but not marked them done? :-)
[18:13] <pitti> desktop-karmic-input-methods
[18:13] <didrocks> pitti is dreaming :)
[18:13] <pitti> ArneGoetje: what's left on that?
[18:14] <pitti> Riddelll: Kubuntu list has 25 TODOs, can some of them be postponed?
[18:14] <ArneGoetje> pitti: just the release notes and test plan, I guess... bugs are flowing in already...
[18:14] <pitti> ah, that sounds feasible indeed
[18:15] <pitti> awe, asac: desktop-karmic-network-ui has quite a few non-QA/test ones
[18:15] <Riddelll> pitti: the artwork ones are done, the rest are mostly not strict features (e.g. "test and release" doesn't really count as a feature)
[18:15] <Riddelll> pitti: I'll tidy up that page anyway yes
[18:15] <pitti> Riddelll: I guess "release" is pretty much done, and "testing" is a bit too blurry to be able to say "DONE"?
[18:16] <asac> pitti: the applet changes are still getting refined upstream. once we know whats going on (i am pushing really hard) we will update that spec
[18:16] <pitti> asac: thanks
[18:16] <pitti> desktop-karmic-automagic-python-build-system 38/0/418
[18:16] <pitti> WTF?
[18:16] <asac> what is 418?
[18:16] <pitti> todo/postponed/done
[18:17] <asac> i observed that my blueprint whiteboard changes sometimes get forgotton
[18:17] <pitti> so, that's clearly a bug in the WI parser :)
[18:17] <seb128> ups
[18:17] <asac> like i change the epihy webkit item one day ... one week later its again on TODO
[18:17] <pitti> it doesn't seem to affect the graph, though
[18:17] <asac> if someone else observes something like that i would be happy to know... otherwise i will keep this filed as day-dreaming
[18:18] <pitti> ok, please update the WIs this week, so that we can more clearly see what we need to postpone
[18:18] <seb128> I didn't update whiteboard recently so didn't notice the issue
[18:18] <pitti> asac: sometimes I notice that changes done to edge don't land in production until like 15 minutes later
[18:19] <asac> so maybe they get forgotten sometimes too ;)
[18:19] <asac> i definitly did a few itesm more than once
[18:19] <asac> and not withing 15 minutes ... more like 1-2 weeks in between
[18:19] <seb128> did you get bug email about the change?
[18:19] <asac> maybe if someone changes something on producing and i did something on edge -> boing
[18:19] <pitti> == AOB ==
[18:19] <pitti> anyone?/
[18:20] <seb128> no
[18:20] <pitti> ccheney: what's the latest word on that OO.o breakage on arm?
[18:20] <pitti> ccheney: I noticed that there's a sponsoring request for a new boost; could that be related?
[18:20] <pitti> (ISTR that someone said it could be a boost regression)
[18:21] <pitti> ok, thanks all! (will wait for ccheney's reply, but can happen off-meeting)
[18:22] <seb128> thanks pitti
[18:22] <seb128> brb, another gdm testing round
[18:22]  * pitti -> dinner and ice cream
[18:23]  * ArneGoetje -> bed
[18:24] <seb128> re
[18:24] <asac> bye
[18:24] <seb128> asac, btw epiphany-webkit 2.28 is there, interested in doing the upgrade?
[18:25] <asac> sure
[18:25] <seb128> asac, thanks ;-)
[18:25] <asac> its quick food next to my painful nm applet work
[18:26] <seb128> what are you changing or fixing there?
[18:27] <seb128> doh, freeze is thursday?
[18:27] <kenvandine> seb128, beta freeze is thursday?
[18:27] <seb128> yes
[18:28] <kenvandine> humm... rick just told me this morning that slangasek told him we needed to plan on getting uploads done by end of monday
[18:28] <kenvandine> he was warning me that we might want to do another round of dx uploads after thursday
[18:28] <kenvandine> or post-pone thursdays
[18:29] <seb128> well after thursday they will not go in karmic without slangasek approval
[18:29] <seb128> ie people will read the code diff and make sure we fix only bugs there
[18:29] <seb128> that slow things quite a lot usually
[18:30] <ccheney> pitti: doko is looking it afaict
[18:30] <ccheney> pitti: sorry was working with doko on getting OOo fixed
[18:30] <Riddelll> asac: so what do I test with this 3G card again?
[18:30] <kenvandine> seb128, ok
[18:31] <ccheney> pitti: he is doing testing at least wrt boost on OOo from the checkins he has made for OOo
[18:31] <Riddelll> asac: if I add --debug to the Exec line in /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.ModemManager.service what next?
[18:31] <ccheney> pitti: its getting fun trying to fix last minute OOo bugs and working on moblin at the same time, heh
[18:31]  * kenvandine goes to grab some lunch
[18:32] <ccheney> not to mention buying a home, getting ready to move, etc (/me thinks he picked a bad time of year to buy a house, doens't line up well with release schedule)
[18:35] <asac> Riddelll: tail syslog
[18:35] <asac> Riddelll: plug in your 3g card
[18:35] <asac> paste what you get
[18:39] <Riddelll> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/275990/
[18:39] <didrocks> pitti: is this package still up-to-date with the new policykit migration: policykit-doc ? (or do you have good pointers for it?)
[18:40] <asac> Riddelll: please download http://cgit.freedesktop.org/ModemManager/ModemManager/tree/test/mm-test.py
[18:40] <asac> and run that
[18:41] <asac> with modem plugged in
[18:42] <Riddelll> asac: a
[18:42] <Riddelll> http://paste.ubuntu.com/275992/ is when trying to connect with nm-applet
[18:44] <Riddelll> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/275994/ mm-test output
[18:46] <asac> Riddelll: ok so somewhat kill modemmanager (maybe move the service file away)
[18:46] <asac> then start minicom -s
[18:46] <asac> select /dev/ttyS0
[18:46] <asac> and save that for future use
[18:46] <asac> then type AT+CPIN?
[18:48] <Riddelll> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/275998/
[18:49] <asac> Riddelll: 'AT+CPIN?'
[18:49] <asac> exactly like that
[18:49] <asac> you can keep the minicom open
[18:50] <Riddelll> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/275999/
[18:50] <asac> hmm
[18:51] <Riddelll> my wvdial.conf does have Init1 = AT+CPIN=1234 in it
[18:51] <asac> Riddelll: you can try to run AT+CPIN="1234" (if thats your pin)
[18:51] <asac> are you sure your SIM is inserted properly?
[18:51] <Riddelll> I've no idea if a pin is set or no
[18:52] <asac> Riddelll: does wvdial still work?
[18:52] <Riddelll> http://paste.ubuntu.com/276002/
[18:52] <Riddelll> let me try wvdial
[18:52] <strider_> hi
[18:53] <strider_> i'd like to  try gnome-shell but it crashes telling me  that the file Shell.load_uri_sync is not found
[18:58] <asac> Riddelll: SIM error could mean your modem isnt properly initialized or your SIM isnt properly inserted ... or broken in some way
[18:58] <asac> usually ifts a locking issue it gives back something like SIM PUK etc on AT+CPIN?
[18:58] <asac> so i dont think thats it
[18:58] <Riddelll> asac: working great with wvdial
[19:00] <asac> Riddelll: did you still have minicom open?
[19:00] <Riddelll> no
[19:00] <asac> ok
[19:01] <asac> can you try minicom again and see if there is different output?
[19:01] <asac> btw ... did you kill modemmanager after adding --debug to the .service file?
[19:01] <asac> Riddelll: ^ ?
[19:02] <Riddelll> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/276009/
[19:02] <Riddelll> asac: I don't remember if I did
[19:02] <asac> Riddelll: no ... i mean AT+CPIN?
[19:03] <asac> i assume thats SIM READY now?
[19:03] <strider_> oh, I upgraded Karmic and it works now :)
[19:03] <Riddelll> asac: how would I know?
[19:04] <asac> Riddelll: type AT+CPIN?
[19:04] <asac> in minicom
[19:05] <Riddelll> http://paste.ubuntu.com/276011/
[19:06] <asac> err ... not sure whats going on for you
[19:06] <asac> Riddelll: the syntax for CPIN="..."
[19:06] <asac> has ""
[19:06] <asac> btw
[19:06] <asac> soAT+CPIN=1234
[19:06] <asac> err
[19:06] <asac> AT+CPIN="1234"
[19:06] <Riddelll> still  ERROR
[19:07] <asac> ok
[19:07] <asac> so lets try a few different init strings
[19:07] <asac> replug your device
[19:07] <asac> start minicom again
[19:08] <asac>  ATZ E0 V1 X4 &C1 +FCLASS=0
[19:08] <asac> try that on first line
[19:08] <Riddelll> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/276014/
[19:10] <asac> Riddelll: now AT+CPIN?
[19:11] <Riddelll> minicom won't let me type
[19:11] <asac> hmm
[19:11] <asac> just type blindly
[19:11] <Riddelll> same thing after restarting
[19:11] <asac> hit enter
[19:11] <Riddelll> ERROR
[19:12] <asac> ok the other init strings we used in 0.7 are here: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/tree/src/nm-gsm-device.c?h=NETWORKMANAGER_0_7#n76
[19:14] <asac> Riddelll: use E1 instead of E0
[19:15] <asac> everywhere to see what you type
[19:15] <asac> (in the init strings)
[19:15] <Riddelll> http://paste.ubuntu.com/276015/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/276016/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/276017/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/276020/
[19:15] <Riddelll> all ERROR
[19:17] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: updated gwibber working much better for me
[19:18] <Riddelll> pitti: comment 11 of bug 405378 has a patch, did you see that?
[19:18] <Riddelll> asac: time for me to go out I'm afraid
[19:27] <asac> Riddelll: sure. i am distracted anyway by other discussions. sorry. lets continue soon
[19:27] <asac> Riddelll: if you know someone from kubuntu team that has a 3g thing that would be great
[19:36] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, awesome
[19:53]  * Amaranth will let apport report this gwibber "crash"
[19:53] <Amaranth> IndexError in <lambda>(), fun
[19:53] <Amaranth> oh, already known
[20:01] <kenvandine> Amaranth, bug number?
[20:01] <Amaranth> turns out it was a crash in a different lambda
[20:01] <Amaranth> I seem to have lost it...
[20:02] <Amaranth> kenvandine: bug 434826 is mine
[20:03] <Amaranth> Is the refresh option in preferences supposed to be empty? :)
[20:03]  * Amaranth makes it public
[20:03] <kenvandine> oh... that was a bug long before gwibber 1 even
[20:03] <kenvandine> i wonder if it was fixed and broken again
[20:03] <Amaranth> err, what am I running then?
[20:03] <kenvandine> gwibber 2
[20:04] <Amaranth> I can't change any preferences because that pops up and the preferences dialog stops working
[20:04] <Amaranth> Actually all of gwibber probably stops working right
[20:04] <awe> kenvandine, did the FF bookmark sync via u1 get implemented?
[20:04] <kenvandine> so you just set the interval?
[20:04] <kenvandine> and setting it caused that crash?
[20:04] <kenvandine> awe, yes
[20:04] <kenvandine> bindwood is the package
[20:04] <Amaranth> kenvandine: Not even that, it crashes if I don't do anything
[20:04] <kenvandine> humm
[20:05] <Amaranth> I just opened the preferences dialog and apport popped up again
[20:05] <kenvandine> was this an updated profile?
[20:05] <Amaranth> I've never used gwibber before a couple weeks ago
[20:05] <kenvandine> ok
[20:05] <awe> kenvandine, is it automatic, or do i need to opt-in?
[20:05] <kenvandine> i will test in a VM
[20:05] <kenvandine> you have to install it
[20:05] <kenvandine> and it doesn't sync yet :)
[20:05] <kenvandine> well... desktopcouch isn't syncing yet
[20:05] <kenvandine> which will sync your bookmarks if you are using bindwood
[20:06] <Amaranth> hrm, just closed gwibber and opened it again and now it is completely empty
[20:06] <Amaranth> Not even the Home area is showing anything
[20:06] <awe> kenvandine, ok, thanks
[20:07] <kenvandine> Amaranth, do you see the account tree on the left?
[20:07] <Amaranth> I don't have a tree
[20:07] <kenvandine> change your view, in the menu view->Account tree
[20:07] <kenvandine> check that
[20:07] <Amaranth> now I have a tree (turned that on
[20:07] <kenvandine> it will start working
[20:07] <kenvandine> ok
[20:07] <Amaranth> and yes, I have an account tree
[20:07] <Amaranth> wtf
[20:07]  * Amaranth writes his own twitter client
[20:07] <kenvandine> the combobox stuff is busted atm
[20:08] <kenvandine> ryan was fixing it last night, but i didn't see him push any code
[20:29] <Amaranth> hmm, it seems the fun bug in the intel driver causing white shadows/decorations in compiz is back
[20:44] <kklimonda> pitti, can you look at bug 429483 before freeze?
[21:34] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[21:34] <seb128> hello chrisccoulson
[21:35] <seb128> how are you tonight?
[21:35] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm not too bad thanks. just working on this GDM change
[21:35] <chrisccoulson> i did some debugging in to the issue i'm having where gnome-system-monitor uses all the CPU and spams the session bus
[21:35] <chrisccoulson> it only happens when i have a CD in one of the CD drives
[21:36] <chrisccoulson> it looks like a loop somewhere in gvfs ;)
[21:36] <seb128> gvfs or devicekit? ;-)
[21:37] <chrisccoulson> it looks like gvfs. i'll run it through GDB again in a bit so i can remember where it loops
[21:37] <seb128> ok
[21:37] <seb128> good luck ;-)
[21:37]  * seb128 went on a gdm bug fixing sprint
[21:37] <chrisccoulson> i noticed ;)
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> hopefully it will get suspend and hibernate buttons shortly
[21:39] <seb128> we might get gdm half good as what we had in jaunty for karmic with some efforts ;-)
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> yeah, hopefully:)
[21:39]  * didrocks is on an ubuntu-fr newmockup sprint. Less technical but more human relationship (and be persuasive there is some work to do) :)
[21:40]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[21:40]  * didrocks hugs seb128 back
[21:42] <chrisccoulson> hmm, the icon name for the suspend button is incorrect
[21:42] <chrisccoulson> "media-playback-pause"
[21:43] <seb128> I'm not sure there is a suspend icon in the gnome theme
[21:43] <seb128> we had the issue for the session dialog previous cycles for sure
[21:43] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - possibly. i only checked because the current greeter doesn't actually have a hibernate button, and i was going to add one
[21:44] <chrisccoulson> but i'm not sure on the icon name to use
[21:44] <dobey> seems fitting
[21:44] <dobey> there isn't
[21:44] <seb128> it doesn't?
[21:44] <seb128> I thought I had hibernate and suspend earlier in the cycle
[21:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it only has a suspend button in 2.28
[21:44] <dobey> "gnome" has never had a suspend icon in it
[21:44] <chrisccoulson> not sure why :-/
[21:44] <seb128> ok
[21:44] <chrisccoulson> probably removed due to lack of an icon ;)
[21:44] <seb128> because there is no real point hibernating from the login screen?
[21:45] <seb128> you can as well stop the box
[21:45] <seb128> you have nothing running
[21:45] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - there could be, as there might be other users logged in
[21:45] <seb128> right, I was thinking that too, but I don't think it happens often
[21:45] <chrisccoulson> do you want me to leave the hibernate button out for now? (it's easy enough to add it in though)
[21:45] <dobey> logged in on vnc?
[21:46] <seb128> Amaranth, there?
[21:46] <Amaranth> seb128: yep
[21:46] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I've no strong opinion either way?
[21:46] <seb128> -?
[21:46] <chrisccoulson> it seems 2.27.4 doesn't have a hibernate icon either, and that's the earliest copy of the source which i have
[21:47] <seb128> Amaranth, so basically what you say in this gnome-wm bug is to drop "OPT4=gconf" in the compiz) case
[21:47] <seb128> Amaranth, right?
[21:47] <Amaranth> seb128: right
[21:47] <seb128> you could have written that in the bug
[21:47] <seb128> I though there was an error in the gconf logic ;-)
[21:47] <seb128> thanks
[21:47] <Amaranth> seb128: I was awake at least 24 hours when I woke that comment :P
[21:47] <seb128> gconf is always loaded in the new compiz then?
[21:48] <Amaranth> I think 28, actually
[21:48] <Amaranth> seb128: We actually don't use the gconf plugin at all anymore, the compiz-wrapper script runs compiz with the ccp plugin
[21:48] <seb128> what happens for people using the ini backend?
[21:48] <seb128> do you migrate datas in gconf?
[21:48] <Amaranth> seb128: I'm going to talk to mvo about removing the gconf, ini, and kconfig plugins from the packages
[21:48] <seb128> or from gconf
[21:48] <Amaranth> seb128: We've been using the ccp plugin for 2 releases now, I think :P
[21:49] <Amaranth> It uses the same gconf keys, just a different plugin for accessing them
[21:49] <seb128> well, not on hardy which is the lts
[21:49] <seb128> ok
[21:49] <seb128> so cpp uses gconf it's all good
[21:49] <seb128> we still need to consider upgrades
[21:49]  * seb128 does the change
[21:50] <Amaranth> seb128: Actually we were using ccp in hardy too
[21:50] <seb128> ok
[21:50] <Amaranth> so we've had it longer than two releases, I guess :)
[21:50] <seb128> I remember having issue between after errors compiz was falling back to the non gconf one
[21:50] <seb128> urg
[21:50] <seb128> I remember having issue because compiz was falling back to the non gconf one sometime after errors
[21:50] <seb128> that one should be possible to read ;-)
[21:51] <Amaranth> Yeah, that was a fallback inside ccp I believe
[21:51] <Amaranth> Or we had it writing out broken ccp config files that were loading ini or something, don't remember the details
[21:52] <Amaranth> seb128: gnome-wm seems to also have some code that should be replacing itself with compiz in the windowmanager key in gconf
[21:52] <Amaranth> oh, that's for dapper upgrades
[22:01] <seb128> Amaranth, fix uploaded
[22:01] <seb128> hey tedg
[22:01] <Amaranth> seb128: awesome, thanks
[22:01] <tedg> Evening seb128
[22:01] <seb128> thank you for tracking the issue ;-)
[22:09] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - you fixed the keybinding issue?
[22:09] <chrisccoulson> you rock:)
[22:10] <Amaranth> I found it, seb128 just fixed it :)
[22:18] <chrisccoulson> oops
[22:18] <chrisccoulson> I_KNOW_THE_DEVICEKIT_POWER_API_IS_SUBJECT_TO_CHANGE
[22:18] <chrisccoulson> :)
[22:20] <seb128> lo
[22:20] <seb128> lol
[22:28] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - the GDM package has a lintian error btw (although you probably knew that already)
[22:28] <chrisccoulson> not-using-po-debconf
[22:28] <seb128> no I don't, I tend to not be careful to lintian, too much noise
[22:28] <seb128> what is this one about?
[22:28] <chrisccoulson> apparently it has a non-translatable debconf template
[22:29] <chrisccoulson> http://lintian.debian.org/tags/not-using-po-debconf.html
[22:29] <chrisccoulson> oh, it looks like the old gdm package had the same error
[22:29] <chrisccoulson> so it doesn't matter all that much
[22:30] <seb128> right, I just copied the old gdm files around
[22:31] <seb128> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=261086
[22:31] <seb128> "This package does not use po-debconf because it steals the templates along
[22:31] <seb128> with the translation from the xdm package.
[22:31] <seb128> "
[22:32] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. that's a good reason:)
[22:42] <chrisccoulson> brb, just testing gdm
[22:46] <chrisccoulson> yay, we have the suspend/hibernate buttons back on the greeter:)
[22:46] <Amaranth> software-store needs a back button :/
[22:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've pushed the dk-power greeter patch now
[22:53] <seb128> chrisccoulson, excellent
[23:03] <seb128> box freeze
[23:04] <chrisccoulson> mine froze earlier too