[10:08] <zakame> hi
[10:10] <czajkowski> zakame: morning
[10:12] <zakame> heya, just turning evening here :)
[10:41] <ZachK18> hello?
[10:46] <amachu> ZachK18: Hi
[10:46] <ZachK18> amachu, hello...are you one of the board members for the Asia and Oceania regional approval board meeting?
[10:46] <amachu> yes
[10:46] <ZachK18> well that's what i'm here for
[10:50] <amachu> some ten minutes to go
[10:50] <ZachK18> yeo
[10:50] <ZachK18> "yep
[10:50] <ZachK18> have you had a chance to "look me over?
[10:57]  * persia peers about
[10:57] <ZachK18> hello persia
[10:58] <amachu> hi
[10:59] <elky> oh. i guess i wont start driving home just now.
[10:59] <amachu> persia: zakame: lifeless: elky: hi
[10:59] <ZachK18> i guess the other guy who wanted membership isn't gonna show up
[11:00] <persia> Well, technically, there's a bit to go.
[11:00] <elky> ZachK18, there's still a few minutes to wait, don't be like that :)
[11:00] <ZachK18> ah..ok....i've got nothing but time
[11:00]  * ZachK18 sits down, sips water......waits
[11:00] <persia> Plus there only seems to be three of us yet.  Usually we like to have at least four.
[11:01] <ZachK18> three who? board members?
[11:01] <persia> Yes.
[11:01] <ZachK18> ah...got yo...
[11:01] <ZachK18> would any of you like to look over my wiki while we wait?
[11:01] <zakame> hello
[11:02] <persia> There we go.  quorum is achieved.
[11:02] <zakame> its been a while
[11:02] <amachu> lifeless: are you here?
[11:02] <elky> a zakame!
[11:02] <lifeless> hi
[11:02] <amachu> cool
[11:03] <elky> ...
[11:03] <amachu> themuso is missing today..
[11:04] <ZachK18> ah..i'm back
[11:04] <amachu> well, we begin now
[11:04] <amachu> Welcome persia, elky, lifeless & zakame
[11:04] <amachu> indus is n't here it seems
[11:04] <zakame> hi amachu , everyone
[11:05] <ZachK18> Good morning board members
[11:05] <ZachK18> well, morning for me anyway....five am
[11:05] <amachu> so, ZachK18, go ahead, presenting yourself & your contributions to Ubuntu
[11:05] <ZachK18> shall i just give my links? it's a fairly big list...
[11:06] <persia> We'd like a two or three line intro.
[11:06] <persia> We'll read your wiki page for the links.
[11:06] <ZachK18> Roger that.
[11:07] <ZachK18> Well first I'm Zach....I started using Ubuntu 100% four months ago...and since that time I post on the forums, use Irc freenode...and I'm currently documenting Firebird with apache2 and php5 on Ubuntu jaunty
[11:09] <elky> had you been using linux/ubuntu long before you moved over completely?
[11:10] <ZachK18> Good question...no. My first encounter with Linux Ubuntu was when 8.04 very first came out. Tried it but because it was in beta or just released from beta stage...(didn't know that at the time) i quit using it. Then a year later here i am
[11:12] <ZachK18> Started using Ubuntu Jaunty slightly for curiousness and because I dislike MS to begin with the transition was Very Easy
[11:13] <amachu> ZachK18: are there people to support you?
[11:14] <ZachK18> Well I won't say because I wish not to put people on the spot but my master on the Ubuntu BT Padawan team is Tim_Sharrit and most of my "friends" are actually on the #ubuntu-beginners channel as we speak
[11:15] <ZachK18> Silver_Fox for example or lukjad007
[11:15] <zakame> can you invite them here so we can hear them out :)
[11:15] <ZachK18> Sure ;)
[11:15] <elky> ZachK18, we like to hear testimonials about prospective members.
[11:15] <zakame> cool
[11:15] <lukjad007> Hi?
[11:15] <ZachK18> lukjad007, thanks!
[11:16] <lukjad007> Sorry, what's going on exactly? I just saw the ping
[11:16] <elky> lukjad007, how well do you know ZachK18?
[11:17] <amachu> lukjad007: and what would you say about his contributions
[11:17] <lukjad007> elky I've seen him around the #ubuntu-beginners and #ubuntu-doc channels for a couple of weeks at least.
[11:17] <elky> lukjad007, what about him do you think makes him a good member candidate?
[11:18] <lukjad007> Silver_Fox_ Probably knows more about his contributions, to be honest.
[11:19] <ZachK18> Silver_Fox_? you here?
[11:19] <persia> ZachK18, You seem to be active in several areas, proceeding through various processes (doc team contributor, beginner's team padawan).  How do you feel these processes work, and do you feel like you're reaching a "next stage" in any of them?
[11:19] <Silver_Fox_> yes zack18,  i am typing
[11:20] <ZachK18> Well I definitely feel as though I'm reaching a "next stage" in those areas.
[11:20] <ZachK18> How I feel they work would be to lengthy to explain but I will try my best.
[11:21] <Silver_Fox_> Though I have only known Zack18 for a short period,  he has amazed me with the amount of time he spends in #ubuntu-beginners-help .  He is friendly and welcomes new people who come across the beginners channel.
[11:21] <ZachK18> The documentation team exists for different purposes, mainly to document different areas of Ubuntu. Whether it's support, questions, or just editing the wiki
[11:22] <ZachK18> the doc team must be there for Ubuntu to succeed. without it, well, it just wouldn't be the same
[11:23] <elky> Well, I think ZachK18 has made a good start, but i'm not yet satisfied with the level of significance. 0 from me.
[11:24] <ZachK18> The beginners team padawan is for the more experienced users of Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community to "take on" the younger users if you will, and show them the ropes perse...explain the proper ways to edit the wiki if they choose to go that route or proper use of the forums
[11:24] <zakame> ZachK18: how's your experience with your previous OS, and does it help you in your current experience with ubuntu?
[11:27] <amachu> ZachK18: You have a good start, but I would like to see more from you to give a +1
[11:27] <persia> I'm -1: not yet.  I think there's great progress, but would like to see testimonials that didn't reference "a short time", and completion of some of the team integration processes underway.
[11:27] <ZachK18> Well my experience with Windows if very large. Especially in using Open Office(in place of MS word!) so the writing and documentation part comes very easy as I like to write so that experience helps. Supporting others with errors and bugs is also very easy as I can search many areas of the Web in a short amount of time...(that experience is needed due to MS bugs)
[11:28] <ZachK18> shall i list my wiki link?
[11:28] <zakame> cool, that's good to hear, and the further experience you have helps
[11:29] <elky> amachu, lifeless, questions for ZachK18?
[11:30] <ZachK18> If the esteemed board would wish, here is my wiki page for evaluation. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zachk18
[11:30] <amachu> elky: I am awaiting lifeless & zakame's vote
[11:31] <amachu> zakame: are you there?
[11:31] <amachu> & lifeless?
[11:31] <zakame> I would want to see some ZachK18 give some more time, he seems to be doing great work and I want him to succeed there
[11:32] <zakame> not to mention being a namesake :P
[11:33] <amachu> zakame: thanks. and i didn't see a reply from lifeless for the entire session.
[11:33] <ZachK18> is that a 0 zakame?
[11:33] <elky> zakame, so that's 0 or -1?
[11:34] <zakame> a 0
[11:34] <elky> lifeless: ping?
[11:34] <amachu> Zack18: that would mean all of us feeling that you have a good beginning and would like to see more, for the membership
[11:34] <amachu> elky: didn't hear from since the beginning
[11:34] <ZachK18> i figured...i'm just an optimistic person by nature...
[11:35] <amachu> ZachK18: So we wish you all the best in future
[11:35] <ZachK18> well, thanks anyway
[11:35] <zakame> its not bad at all
[11:35] <amachu> keep up the good work.
[11:35] <ZachK18> If you wish to contact me i'll be around...
[11:35] <persia> ZachK18, Thanks for helping so far, and we'll look forward to seeing you back when you've a bit more documented.
[11:35] <ZachK18> any recommendations?
[11:36] <amachu> persia: elky: zakame: anything else to discuss here?
[11:36] <elky> amachu, we are lacking our second applicant?
[11:36] <ZachK18> yes you are...he's not here...
[11:36] <amachu> elky: yes
[11:36] <persia> ZachK18, Just keep doing what you are doing, get some testimonials on your wiki page demonstrating that more of your work is significant, and come visit again.
[11:36] <elky> excellent, then i can drive home from work via food! :D
[11:36] <zakame> ZachK18: any immediate plans for your team participations?
[11:37] <ZachK18> So, for an overall score, what'd i get from all of you...0 to 10
[11:37] <persia> We don't do it that way.
[11:37] <persia> We just do -1 to 1.
[11:37] <persia> But it averages about -0.25, if I read the votes correctly.
[11:37] <ZachK18> well immediate plans....did any of you look at my documentation for Firebird? it's something that nobody, and i stress strongly nobody knows how to do
[11:37] <lifeless> sorry elky got stuck in a GPL/LGPL/BSD licencing mail :(
[11:38] <elky> lifeless, EWW!
[11:38] <amachu> lifeless: same old trap :-)
[11:38] <zakame> lifeless: lolwut
[11:38] <lifeless> so, I'm with persia
[11:38] <amachu> lifeless: We has ZachK18 here today, all of us felt he need to improve upon.
[11:39] <ZachK18> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu-with-Firebird-Database
[11:39] <lifeless> I concur
[11:39] <elky> lifeless: we had 4 votes, so it's up to you if you want to read scrollback and throw your opinion in
[11:39] <persia> ZachK18, It's a good start, but it's not yet complete :)
[11:39] <lifeless> elky: actually, I'm starting it. I wrote infrastructure code as GPL. This was a mistake, now I have to convince the contributors to relicence.
[11:39] <amachu> lifeless: would you like to take some time, to give your feedback on ZachK18
[11:39] <ZachK18> the firebird doc is something that no one in the community that i've talked to knows how to get working..
[11:40] <lifeless> amachu: I don't have anything additional; you've all said exactly what I would have
[11:40] <lifeless> doing good stuff is great.
[11:40] <lifeless> keep doing it!
[11:40] <elky> lifeless, this sounds almost like something that may have been discussed in a pub roughly 3.5 weeks ago.
[11:40] <lifeless> elky: its been brewing for a bit
[11:41] <lifeless> elky: but its only accidentally connected to that post SLUG chat
[11:41] <amachu> lifeless: fine. anything else for any one to discuss?
[11:41] <elky> lifeless, i look forward to hearing about this at the pub in .5 weeks then :)
[11:41] <amachu> persia: elky: zakame: ?
[11:41] <ZachK18> is that it then?
[11:41] <elky> amachu, i think we're done amachu, thanks for chairing :)
[11:41] <lifeless> elky: you should't let your ubuntu membership expire btw ;)
[11:41] <ZachK18> if that's it then i'm gonna head on over to #ubuntu-beginners-help
[11:41] <zakame> ZachK18: pretty good stuff, keep at it
[11:42] <elky> lifeless, yes, and i should stick to my first answer when my boss says "do you want to be the business manager"
[11:42] <ZachK18> Board, I appreciate the time, suggestions, and consideration. Until our next meeting.
[11:43] <persia> amachu, I'm set.
[11:43] <amachu> fine then. Thank you all for participating.
[11:44] <amachu> Next meeting will be on 13 Oct 09. Hope we get a new member to the Board in between that :-)
[11:44]  * ZachK18 waves to get amachu's attention...lol
[11:44] <ZachK18> thanks gents
[11:45] <ZachK18> don't worry about my determinations wanning guys...i'll still be here even if i never get membership
[11:46] <elky> ZachK18, good to hear, and i hope to see you in several months time with a much bigger resume.
[11:46] <ZachK18> me too! hope i can do that
[11:46] <ZachK18> Thanks again
[12:01] <lifeless> elky: https://lists.launchpad.net/subunit-dev/msg00033.html
[12:01] <lifeless> soren: ^
[13:58] <lool> ogra, NCommander, GrueMaster, plars, njpatel, ian_brasil, dyfet, StevenK: meeting in 3
[13:58] <lool> or 2 rather
[13:58] <ogra> moo moo
[13:58]  * plars is here
[13:58] <lool> no bfiller, paulliu, bjf, davidm
[13:59]  * ian_brasil opens a sleepy eye
[13:59] <StevenK> But I'm on leave ... ?
[14:00] <Hobbsee> You apparently have to attend anyway
[14:00] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[14:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is NCommander.
[14:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:00] <StevenK> So it would seem
[14:00]  * JamieBennett is observing again
[14:01] <lool> StevenK: You're welcome to join if you like  :-)
[14:01] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090922
[14:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090922
[14:01] <lool> JamieBennett: Ah right didn't think of pinging you
[14:01] <NCommander> [link] http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
[14:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
[14:01] <JamieBennett> lool: np
[14:01] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
[14:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
[14:02]  * NCommander waits for a few more people to pop up alive
[14:03] <lool> davidm and GrueMaster are at a conference so let's not wait for them
[14:03]  * GrueMaster is not alive until he gets coffee.
[14:03] <lool> Just like bjf AFAIK
[14:03] <lool> oh here he is
[14:03] <lool> gruemaster: will davidm join?
[14:03] <GrueMaster> I don't know.  I'm at home, he's in a luxury hotel.
[14:04] <ogra> ah, softer beds
[14:04] <NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
[14:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
[14:05] <GrueMaster> ogra: much softer.
[14:05] <lool> NCommander: Dont topic each of them; let's just go over them
[14:05] <NCommander> ok
[14:05] <lool> NCommander: you're first
[14:05] <NCommander> My one action item was implemented my lool. Its pending upload.
[14:05] <NCommander> *by
[14:05]  * NCommander is NOT awake yet
[14:06] <lool> NCommander: Actually you're right that more work is required
[14:06] <lool> NCommander: Such as libd-i and base-installer changes
[14:06] <lool> dont think we need to do the ubiquity changes, especially for z0
[14:06] <NCommander> lool, flash-kernel will bee to be changed for the new platform
[14:07] <ogra> bssss .... mind the bees :)
[14:07] <NCommander> if we want uImage creation to happen automaitcally
[14:07] <lool> NCommander: Oh right; trivially though
[14:07] <NCommander> lool, indeed
[14:07] <lool> NCommander: so let's keep an action on this?
[14:08] <lool> [action] complete dove z0 d-i support (NCommander)
[14:08] <NCommander> [action] complete dove z0 d-i support (NCommander)
[14:08] <MootBot> ACTION received:  complete dove z0 d-i support (NCommander)
[14:08] <lool> dyfet: Around?
[14:08] <lool> AFAICS the lubuntu stuff is still in lala land
[14:08] <GrueMaster> He's also at the conference.
[14:08] <lool> seed in junk
[14:08] <ogra> oh, soft beds as well
[14:09] <lool> ubiquity was dropped from desktop
[14:09] <ogra> ++
[14:09] <ogra> already a good move
[14:09] <lool> [action] move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable the meta on amd64 (dyfet)
[14:09] <lool> NCommander: ^
[14:09] <NCommander> [action] move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable the meta on amd64 (dyfet)
[14:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable the meta on amd64 (dyfet)
[14:09] <lool> I wonder what mysql is doing in the lubuntu live seed though
[14:10] <lool> probably I dont need to know
[14:10] <ogra> serving SQL :)
[14:10]  * NCommander pokes plars 
[14:10] <lool> NCommander: I'm next I think
[14:10] <lool> NCommander: Pleaes co lool to setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here
[14:10] <lool> [action] setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here (lool, c/o)
[14:10] <plars> my turn now?
[14:11] <lool> paulliu isn't around
[14:11] <NCommander>  [action] setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here (lool, c/o)
[14:11] <NCommander> [action] setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here (lool, c/o)
[14:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here (lool, c/o)
[14:11] <lool> NCommander: co paulliu's
[14:11] <plars> I haven't had a chance to talk to the QA team about it and see if they have any advice to offer, but I'd like to go ahead and let those on the team look at the proposed changes and see what you think.
[14:11]  * NCommander should just chair lool if he's going to give me copy/paste lines
[14:11] <lool> [action] file question against soyuz on PPA size (paulliu, c/o)
[14:11] <NCommander> [action] c/o pauliu's specs
[14:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  c/o pauliu's specs
[14:11] <lool> (I'm trying to speed things up; I'm busy  :-)
[14:11] <ogra> NCommander, that would be to easy ... we couldnt blame you
[14:11] <plars> you done now? :)
[14:12] <lool> plars: URL?
[14:12] <plars> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/BugWorkflow
[14:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/BugWorkflow
[14:12] <lool> plars: High level remark: we should try avoiding organisation for the mobile team
[14:12] <plars> A description of the proposed changes are in a grey box at the bottom of the page.  In essence, the goal is to try to help focus attention on important bugs, while trying to keep the bug spam volume low for those on the team
[14:13] <plars> lool: ?
[14:13] <lool> even if the canonical mobile team is driving this effort and we have some specific things assigned to this team, it's best if we can keep things related to UNR moblin and armel separate from the canonical-mobile concept if you see what I mean
[14:13] <plars> lool: ah, right
[14:13] <plars> lool: you mentioned that last time, and then said to leave it
[14:13] <plars> lool: it can be easily split
[14:14] <lool> pff I suck
[14:14] <lool> human-netbook-theme > we still use that??
[14:14] <lool> I dont think so it's in universe
[14:14] <lool> same for netbook-config > not in ubuntu
[14:14] <ogra> write a MIOR so it matches the wiki again :P
[14:14] <ogra> *MIR
[14:14] <lool> plars: humanity-icon-theme
[14:14] <plars> so I'm interested in feedback as to whether those (especially those on ~ubuntu-unr) believe this is a good change, or if they would just end up subscribing to the -qa team anyway so as to see everything
[14:15] <StevenK> human-netbook-theme already had an MIR, and already got approved, so it can just move back again
[14:15] <plars> lool: will correct, that's old
[14:15] <ogra> StevenK, i wasnt serious you know :)
[14:15] <plars> lool: that's not in the changes :)
[14:15] <lool> plars: Should we integrate with the new bug reporting guidelines?
[14:15] <lool> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs etc.
[14:15] <lool> or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
[14:16] <plars> lool: I can look at that, and those are good suggestions, but specifically I'm looking for feedback on the changes wrt our team at the bottom of the page
[14:16] <ogra> lool, 90% of the bugs i file dont work with the new guidelines anyway
[14:16] <lool> plars: So what I mentionned about the ubuntu-unr tag is that it might make sense to stop keeping it to mean specific to unr
[14:17] <ogra> i rarely file from the system i see the bug on
[14:17] <lool> plars: I mean, if we get too many bugs filed from UNR as is increasingly the case, it's not scaling up well
[14:17]  * NCommander hates the new bug guidelines with a passion
[14:17] <plars> lool: yeah, maybe it could mean that it was just filed from a system that happened to be running unr?
[14:17] <lool> plars: So for ubuntu-unr/armel tags, we could have "this is specific to environment foo" tags which we add explicitely
[14:17] <NCommander> ogra, you could technically collect a bug report, SCP it over, and then ubuntu-bug it
[14:17] <lool> plars: e.g. unr-specific and armel-specific
[14:17] <lool> plars: Yeah
[14:17] <lool> plars: But we only need to change the meaning when we're flooded
[14:18] <lool> Not the case for armel for instance
[14:18] <ogra> NCommander, sure, i can also grow grass on my knee if i try hard enough
[14:18]  * plars directs lool to #3 on the section at the bottom of the page
[14:18] <ogra> tehoretically
[14:18]  * plars points both hands to the section at the bottom of the page where the proposed changes are
[14:18] <lool> plars: Oh I thought you wanted us to review the full page not the bottom changes; apologies
[14:18] <plars> :)
[14:19] <plars> ogra: there's a way around that if you have a .crash file, even on a system where you can't get network access
[14:19] <lool> plars: The changes look fine
[14:19] <ogra> plars, i know, but many of my reports neither use or need .crash files on armel
[14:19] <plars> ogra: but yeah, clearly some bugs *have* to be filed manually - we just want to encourage people to use apport if at all possible
[14:19] <NCommander> plars, I note for the record the *vast* majority of stuff I file == no crash
[14:19] <lool> plars: We need to cover the priority setting/milestoning actions too
[14:20] <plars> lool: correct
[14:20] <ogra> ++
[14:20] <NCommander> ++
[14:20] <ogra> and tatoo them on NCommanders forehead :P
[14:20] <NCommander> --
[14:20] <StevenK> Win!
[14:20] <plars> and that's a point I'm somewhat fuzzy on... especially since lp doesn't have a separate notion of priority vs. importance
[14:20] <lool> along poiuytrewq?
[14:20] <StevenK> I'll help fund the tattoo
[14:20] <plars> the two are not always synonymous
[14:21] <ogra> lool, indeed
[14:21] <lool> plars: moblin tag > yeah please file a bug on this
[14:21] <lool> Not sure where I'd add it but that's easy
[14:22] <lool> perhaps just moblin
[14:22] <plars> lool: seems sensible since that's where we have everything else for moblin
[14:22] <plars> one other outstanding question I have - do we want to just do this for UNR, or for armel as well?
[14:22] <lool> Sorry I mean the tag name would be "moblin" not ubuntu-moblin
[14:22] <plars> in armel, the bug volume is currently much lower
[14:22] <lool> plars: The -qa?
[14:23] <lool> I think it only makes sense for unr
[14:23] <plars> lool: yes
[14:23] <lool> it might be needed for armel but dealing with multiple teams etc. is painful so if we can avoid it...
[14:23] <plars> I'd like to defer it for armel unless someone has an objection to that
[14:23] <plars> so, just do it for unr for now, see how it goes
[14:24] <lool> plars: I confirmed with design team that assigning ~canonical-ux is the right escalation path
[14:24] <plars> lool: cool, and they want assigned, not just subscribed?
[14:24] <NCommander> plars, lool, what AR/Minutes do we take away from then?
[14:24] <plars> I know some teams are picky about that
[14:24] <lool> assigned means they have to comment or fix so I think it's the right thing to do
[14:24] <lool> they were fine with assignments
[14:24] <plars> ok
[14:25] <lool> NCommander: ?
[14:25] <NCommander> lool, I'm trying to figure out how to summarize plars down into a one line summary for the minutes
[14:25] <NCommander> er, *ahem*
[14:25] <StevenK> Haha
[14:25] <NCommander> plars's bug triage notes
[14:26] <StevenK> plars in one line.
[14:26] <lool> [agreed] Approve update from plars on bug triaging guidelines
[14:26] <plars> NCommander: basically the bug workflow is just being tweaked
[14:26] <lool> You can shorten plars to 5 chars
[14:27] <NCommander> [action] plars to update the bug workflow
[14:27] <MootBot> ACTION received:  plars to update the bug workflow
[14:27] <NCommander> [topic] UMR Status
[14:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  UMR Status
[14:27] <lool> bfiller: Hey
[14:27] <bfiller> lool: hello
[14:27] <lool> bfiller: Sorry didn't setup a meeting about moblin this week
[14:28] <lool> I think we should try to chat next weel
[14:28] <lool> Biggest update is TMC stuff
[14:28] <lool> Was blocking further progress to karmic
[14:28] <lool> paulliu confirmed to me earlier that this was all working for him now
[14:28] <lool> bfiller: One big question is whether we could use 2.1 components or not?
[14:28] <lool> bfiller: The TMC updates will land in 2.1 but we could carry them on top of 2.0
[14:29] <bfiller> lool: would be great to get 2.1 components in, but they are not available yet
[14:29] <lool> overall, moblin status is improving but images are still failing to build
[14:29] <lool> bfiller: So no objection to use them; that's fine
[14:29] <lool> I under paulliu will merge latest empathy bits and we should be able to build images again
[14:29] <bfiller> lool: it is a requirement we use 2.1 for next OEM image
[14:29] <lool> bfiller: Cool that's aligned then
[14:30] <lool> The other topic which made no progress is compliance work, at least on my side
[14:30] <lool> GrueMaster: anything your side?
[14:30] <bfiller> lool: there are 3 things I'd like to add
[14:30] <GrueMaster> We had a teleconference with Intel last week.
[14:30] <GrueMaster> Waiting for them to finalize 1.0 spec.
[14:31] <lool> GrueMaster: Right but I think we want to start setting up daily runs and raise issues with the test tools
[14:31] <GrueMaster> I plan on discussing compliance with the LinuxFoundation today or tomorrow at the conference.
[14:31] <NCommander> GrueMaster, what's the timefame on them finalizing 1.0?
[14:31] <lool> bfiller: Please dump them here any time
[14:31] <GrueMaster> NCommander: they don't know
[14:31] <lool> bfiller: I've seen you assigned some bugs; thanks
[14:31] <bfiller> lool: 1) there are many packages in Karmic PPA that are old or need version bumps, so these need to be assigned to people
[14:31] <bfiller> oem folks are doing some, pauliu will need to help as well
[14:32] <GrueMaster> lool: daily runs would be a lot of work, considering the test suite takes ~26 hours to run.
[14:32] <lool> bfiller: Yes, top priority was to move new packages to karmic; I'd like to use a tracker for the PPA -> karmic merges apart of that
[14:32] <GrueMaster> Unless I pare it down.
[14:32] <GrueMaster> And that doesn't include manual tests.
[14:32] <lool> GrueMaster: well continuous runs then; perhaps we should bring it up that 26 hours is too long?
[14:32] <bfiller> 2) I have triaged some bugs and added some new ones, we really need to address https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-moblin-remix/+bug/434243 soon I think to have stability in the package versions
[14:32] <bfiller> lool: we had previously talked about this
[14:33] <lool> bfiller: Yes
[14:33] <lool> bfiller: I didnt have time to look into this
[14:33] <bfiller> lool: agreed about that tracker
[14:33] <GrueMaster> The other issue with compliance is library versions.  We apparently have some newer clutter libs than moblin.org.
[14:33] <lool> bfiller: I can explain where the file needs to be created and where the format is documented but didn't have time to verify things work as intended
[14:33] <bfiller> lool: I assigned the apt bug to StevenK, not sure if he is the right person 0r not
[14:33] <lool> bfiller: he probably is except he's on leave for a week
[14:34] <StevenK> I didn't see that bug?
[14:34] <StevenK> Oh, that bug
[14:34] <lool> GrueMaster: So did you report these upstream>
[14:34] <StevenK> Yes, that's a livecd-rootfs issue. Patches welcome
[14:34] <GrueMaster> This was brought up in the phone meeting.
[14:34] <lool> GrueMaster: I think we need to push more stuff in the intel bug tracker
[14:35] <NCommander> lool, bfiller five minute warning
[14:35] <GrueMaster> It already has been reported.  It is a spec compliance issue.
[14:35] <GrueMaster> Hard to be compliant to a spec that isn't finalized.
[14:35] <lool> GrueMaster: From my perspective, you're owning the moblin compliance stuff and I'd love you to drive the issues you raised here or on the phone call upstream
[14:35] <bfiller> lool: can you assign someone else on your team to look at 434243 while steven is goine?
[14:35] <lool> bfiller: The only other person would be me; unless someone here would like to step up?
[14:36] <lool> ogra, dyfet, or anybody ^
[14:36] <StevenK> Hm. It isn't hard to fix for the live system
[14:36] <GrueMaster> lool: I am already driving it, along with davidm.
[14:36] <bfiller> StevenK: do you have cycles to get it done before you leave?
[14:36] <bfiller> how about NCommander :)?
[14:36] <ogra> lool, my plate is full ... but if there is nop other one ...
[14:36] <StevenK> bfiller: I left two days ago :-P
[14:36] <bfiller> StevenK: rats
[14:36] <NCommander> bfiller, what's a spare cycle?
[14:36] <lool> GrueMaster: Well we might have to tell them that we have version foo of the while spec says we need version foobar and that needs to be fixed in the spec
[14:36] <StevenK> bfiller: I'm not back until next Monday the 28th
[14:37] <lool> The bug isn't that the spec isn't at 1.0 but rather that the current spec says we're incompatible
[14:37] <ogra> bfiller, NCommander doesnt sleep, he should have extra cycles :P
[14:37] <NCommander> three minute warning
[14:37] <GrueMaster> lool: we know this.  they know this.
[14:37] <bfiller> NCommander: enought time to fix 434243 :)
[14:37] <NCommander> ogra, *sigh* thats more true than you realize
[14:37] <lool> GrueMaster: So you're saying it's reported?
[14:37] <GrueMaster> YES
[14:37] <lool> GrueMaster: OKAY
[14:37] <bfiller> NCommander: bang it out
[14:37] <lool> GrueMaster: What about the other bits?
[14:37] <GrueMaster> Whish is why davidm and I are taking it up with the linux foundation while at the conference.
[14:38] <GrueMaster> s/whish/which
[14:38] <NCommander> bfiller, if you give me an /etc/apt/preferences file, I'll hit livecd-rootfs with a cluebat
[14:39] <NCommander> two minute warning
[14:39] <NCommander> s/two/one/g
[14:39] <GrueMaster> [action] GrueMaster to continue driving moblin compliance issues with the LinuxFoundation.
[14:39] <GrueMaster> there.
[14:39] <lool> Ok anything else for moblin?
[14:39] <lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-moblin
[14:39] <NCommander> [action] GrueMaster to continue driving moblin compliance issues with the LinuxFoundati
[14:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster to continue driving moblin compliance issues with the LinuxFoundati
[14:39] <NCommander> [action] GrueMaster to continue driving moblin compliance issues with the LinuxFoundation
[14:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster to continue driving moblin compliance issues with the LinuxFoundation
[14:39] <bfiller> that's it for me
[14:39] <lool> Ok thanks
[14:39] <NCommander> [topic] UNR Status
[14:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  UNR Status
[14:39] <ogra> you still have a minute
[14:39] <lool> njpatel: You around?
[14:40] <njpatel> yep
[14:40] <lool> So UNR status is pretty good
[14:40] <lool> ISO size was an issue but went down with the desktop one making some progress
[14:40] <lool> Still needs to be trimmed further
[14:40] <lool> GrueMaster: Updates on this?
[14:40] <lool> I added a bunch of packages to the seed as a result of a full review of desktop versus netbook-remix I did over the WE
[14:40] <GrueMaster> Not since it was inadvertently bloated over the weekend.  I'm in a conference all week.
[14:41] <lool> Ok so no progress last week
[14:41]  * GrueMaster still has a real life.  :P
[14:41] <lool> And you say no progress next week
[14:41] <StevenK> It wasn't bloated, it was brought into line with desktop
[14:41] <StevenK> That isn't bloat
[14:41] <lool> GrueMaster: Right I just fixed some missing packages rather than added random crap
[14:42] <lool> GrueMaster: I think the discussionon trimming it down started before that anyway
[14:42] <GrueMaster> Well, I mentioned it yesterday to davidm, and he suggested pulling some lang-packs.  Starting with French.
[14:42] <plars> in any case, it's down to 691M now, win
[14:42] <GrueMaster> plars: cool.
[14:42] <njpatel> StevenK: it's all bloat. we only need vim-full and links ;-)
[14:42] <lool> GrueMaster: langpacks are precisely what we want to add, not remove
[14:42] <StevenK> GrueMaster: French and German were killed weeks ago
[14:43] <lool> Which is why we're trying to get the size down
[14:43] <StevenK> And I told davidm when I did
[14:43] <NCommander> plars, lool stupid question, if I need to flie a bug which is chiefly a seed issue, where does it go?
[14:43] <GrueMaster> JOKES, PEOPLE!
[14:43] <lool> Fixing the size by removing langpacks is the wrong way of looking at the size problems; it's only an emergency solution
[14:43] <lool> NCommander: meta usually
[14:43] <StevenK> njpatel: When are you going to create vbuntu? :-P
[14:43]  * NCommander discovered that Dove images can only be installed with the internet.
[14:43] <plars> NCommander: on unr?
[14:43] <NCommander> plars, no, dove
[14:43] <lool> NCommander: if it's only in the live image, you can file it in the ubuntu-cdimages project but usually just ping someone
[14:43] <ogra> wrong topic ?
[14:44] <StevenK> GrueMaster: It seems making jokes about the image size to lool and me doesn't work.
[14:44] <StevenK> ubuntu-cdimage, by the by
[14:44]  * GrueMaster changes internal lang-pack to en-Pirate.
[14:44] <NCommander> [action] lool to add uboot-mkimage to the desktop ship seed to make dove images non-dependent on internet access
[14:44] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to add uboot-mkimage to the desktop ship seed to make dove images non-dependent on internet access
[14:44] <NCommander> :-)
[14:45] <lool> NCommander: Probably the alternate one too
[14:45] <lool> Ok so apart of that UNR is doing ok
[14:45] <ogra> doesnt the linux-image package dep on it like imx51 does on redboot-tools ?
[14:45] <NCommander> lool, probably
[14:45] <lool> I added a bunch of apport hooks since last week
[14:45] <StevenK> Hm, I don't think en-Pirate is valid
[14:45] <lool> thanks DBO & plars for bringing it up
[14:45] <NCommander> lool, it probably needs to be in the platform ship seed actually
[14:45] <lool> UNR bugs are probably worth looking at
[14:46]  * NCommander notes that it should NOT be in the live image, as its dead space on everything else.
[14:46] <plars> lool: I knew about the launcher one, did you do others as well?
[14:46] <lool> GrueMaster: SO you had a focus on triaging bugs for UNR last week; did you find anything which needs to be raised to our attention?
[14:46] <NCommander> BTW, four minute warning
[14:46] <lool> plars: I did some this morning
[14:46] <lool> plars: maximus, desktop-switcher
[14:46] <plars> lool++
[14:46] <lool> and gnone-panel is committed
[14:46] <lool> but needs an apport fix first
[14:46] <lool> which is committed too
[14:47] <GrueMaster> I have a hard time reproducing bugs when my own netbook is down.  davidm is trying to get permission for me to expense a new one this week.
[14:47] <lool> NCommander: Well we can make it armel specific
[14:47] <lool> So no progress on UNR bug triage either
[14:47] <ogra> if a dep from linux-image exists its even subarch specific
[14:47] <NCommander> lool, well, I just want it in the CD pool vs. in the live image so imx51 doesn't end up with random junk; the installation of uboot-mkimage is done by f-k-i
[14:47] <lool> njpatel: Anything you'd like to raise?
[14:47] <lool> StevenK: What about you?
[14:48] <lool> NCommander: Yes, so we're talking of ship-live and ship seeds
[14:48] <njpatel> erm, not really, bugs milestoned for beta release will be fixed and released for thursday
[14:48] <NCommander> lool, right. sorry. I am not awake yet :-/
[14:48] <NCommander> lool, do you want me to file a bug, or is an action item enough?
[14:48] <lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
[14:48] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
[14:48] <StevenK> lool: ENOCONTEXT?
[14:48] <lool> Humanity bugs are mostly fix committed upstream
[14:48]  * NCommander found this very very late last night after banging my head on why my images won't install
[14:48] <lool> StevenK: 15:47 < lool> njpatel: Anything you'd like to raise?
[14:48] <lool> StevenK: We're discussing UNR status
[14:49] <lool> NCommander: The action item you assigned me to is enough
[14:49] <NCommander> 1 minute warning on UNR status
[14:49] <StevenK> lool: Oh. Only concerned with humanity -> human status
[14:49] <lool> njpatel: So I'm not reverting back to Human and am blocked on design team for a couple of things
[14:49] <StevenK> Ah
[14:49] <lool> njpatel: and you too for software-store
[14:49] <njpatel> lool: right, forgot about that
[14:50] <lool> StevenK: it turns out design team really cares about humanity and in fact would like that to become GNOME's theme as well
[14:50] <njpatel> (i mean, I was going to deal with it, just forgot to mention it here :) )
[14:50] <lool> But they wanted to experiment in UNR first
[14:50] <lool> desktop-switcher needs a lot of love
[14:50] <lool> That's about it
[14:50] <lool> Ok anything else for UNR anybody?
[14:51] <lool> NCommander: please moveon
[14:51] <NCommander> [topc] Specification Overview
[14:51] <lool> GrueMaster: LSB testing for A6?
[14:51] <lool> I POSTPONED or DONE-ed a bunch of items in paulliu's resolution spec
[14:51] <GrueMaster> Done, need to post results.  Will try to do while at conference, if network stays reliable.
[14:52] <lool> we dropped the testing items in ogra's spec to match marvell's
[14:52] <ogra> \o/
[14:52] <lool> lubuntu was covered
[14:52] <lool> NCommander: usplash on dove?
[14:52]  * NCommander guesses that's why the burndown chart looks so much happier
[14:52] <NCommander> lool, no progress. Was beating my head in for a few hours yesterday on why my images didn't install
[14:53] <lool> NCommander: is there a bug for it?
[14:53] <NCommander> lool, usplash or the not installing part?
[14:53] <lool> NCommander: usplash
[14:53] <lool> NCommander: and installing too actually
[14:53] <lool> NCommander: I thought A6 was working fine??
[14:53] <NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usplash/+bug/423346 - usplash is here
[14:54] <NCommander> lool, it works fine if you have an internet conneciton
[14:54] <lool> plars: mobile-qa-karmic-* updates?
[14:54] <NCommander> lool, my dove board was disconnected from the net when I tried to install -_-;
[14:54] <plars> lool: I did some more checkbox tests yesterday, and LTP is now integrated into the daily testing
[14:54] <NCommander> Needless to say, that one threw me through a loop until I figured out why f-k-i abends
[14:54] <lool> plars: The number of TODOs is still high on them; do we need to POSTPONE some stuff?
[14:55] <lool> NCommander: So it's not really an issue?
[14:55] <plars> lool: no, I probably need to review those, I can probably close some of them
[14:55] <lool> NCommander: it's just uboot-mkimage?
[14:55] <pitti> hello
[14:55] <lool> pitti: is there another meeting in 5?
[14:55] <NCommander> lool, yeah, I'll add a cavet to documentation that you currently need internet access to install the dove images
[14:55] <pitti> lool: yes, TB
[14:55] <lool> plars: Ok, please do; thanks a lot
[14:55] <ogra> pfft, TB
[14:55] <ogra> we're owning the channel !
[14:56] <lool> Any other updates on specs?
[14:56] <lool> Questions?
[14:56] <ogra> none here
[14:56] <lool> ian_brasil: Sorry, we're running late and I have another meeting afterwards
[14:56] <NCommander> What's the answer to life, the universe, and everything?
[14:56] <ogra> 42
[14:56] <NCommander> [topic] ABO
[14:56] <MootBot> New Topic:  ABO
[14:56] <lool> Well we didn't review armel bugs
[14:57] <ogra> there are none :P
[14:57] <lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel
[14:57] <ian_brasil> lool, np
[14:57] <JamieBennett> Good
[14:57] <ogra> gah+
[14:57] <JamieBennett> ;)
[14:57] <GrueMaster> Except usb-nic on babbage.  Being addressed today in kernel sprint.
[14:57] <lool> Ok nothing new on the list and they are all more or less assigned
[14:58] <ogra> oo.o is our main PITA still
[14:58] <lool> oo.o/mx51 remain the top issues
[14:58] <ogra> oo.o/mx51 ?
[14:58] <lool> So NCommander can you please carry on ian's item?
[14:58] <lool> ogra: the imx51 kernel issues and the oo.o issue
[14:58] <NCommander> lool, MID status?
[14:58] <ogra> does it work on dove ?
[14:58] <ogra> ah
[14:59] <ogra> i thought you meant oo.o on imx51
[14:59] <NCommander> lool, np
[14:59] <lool> ian_brasil: If you like I can comment on your plans directly outside of a meeting
[14:59] <ian_brasil> lool, that would be great
[14:59] <lool> ian_brasil: I have meetings the whole of today but could you ping me for instance tomorrow and I'd try to review your plan/comment?
[14:59] <ian_brasil> lool, ok will do
[14:59] <lool> Thanks
[14:59] <lool> AOB/
[14:59] <ogra> close ...
[14:59] <lool> AOB?
[14:59] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[14:59] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:59.
[14:59] <ogra> before the TB larts us
[14:59] <NCommander> lool, any other business
[15:00] <GrueMaster> larts us?
[15:00] <lool> NCommander: I know what it is
[15:00] <lool> NCommander: I was asking for it
[15:00] <kees> pitti, Keybuk: I saw you guys join.  mdz, cjwatson: are you non-afk?
[15:01] <cjwatson> here
[15:02] <kees> that's 4 of 6, should we start or wait a bit?
[15:02] <Keybuk> 5 of 6?
[15:02] <cjwatson> are mdz and sabdfl both at LinuxCon?
[15:02] <Keybuk> oh, you're counting sabdfl ;)
[15:02] <Keybuk> sabdfl is not here yet
[15:02] <kees> as are I and Keybuk
[15:03] <cjwatson> I understood that we weren't expecting mdz, from the fact that randa asked me if we were going to reschedule
[15:03] <Keybuk> cjwatson: LinuxCon is in kees's home town
[15:03] <cjwatson> Keybuk: yeah, I know
[15:03] <Keybuk> it seems a bit rude to ask kees to turn up to the TB meeting at this time if we're not willing to get out of bed a little earlier when we're in his timezone
[15:03] <kees> heh.
[15:03] <cjwatson> and I applaud your politeness in turning up :)
[15:03] <cjwatson> nevertheless, we probably shouldn't wait for mdz or sabdfl
[15:04] <kees> ok
[15:04] <Keybuk> indeed
[15:04] <kees> #startmeeting
[15:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is kees.
[15:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:04] <kees> [TOPIC] review actions from last meeting
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  review actions from last meeting
[15:04] <kees> cjwatson: you had an item for contacting Bdale?
[15:05] <cjwatson> I was a veritable action-storm this morning
[15:05] <kees> hehe
[15:05] <cjwatson> he's subscribed to the list now, and invited to the meeting (although it was short notice), and I made another sort of prod at restarting the conversation
[15:06] <Keybuk> bdale is at LinuxCon too <g>
[15:06] <cjwatson> do grab him at some point then :)
[15:06] <Keybuk> I was going to
[15:06] <kees> (does that count as an action...?)
[15:06] <cjwatson> ahahahaHAAA
[15:06] <kees> pitti: saw your edits to SRU wiki
[15:06] <pitti> kees: yep, that's done
[15:07] <Keybuk> kees: I think if bdale is on the list and has a meeting invite, cjwatson is done on this item
[15:07] <kees> I talked to doko about sun-java6, and then got more feedback, but we'll get to that.
[15:07] <kees> Keybuk: right, I meant your snagging Bdale.  :)
[15:07] <cjwatson> I so misread that
[15:07] <Keybuk> cjwatson: I really don't like beards
[15:08] <Keybuk> kees: sure, note it down so it's in the minutes
[15:08] <kees> [ACTION] Keybuk to find Bdale at LinuxCon
[15:08] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Keybuk to find Bdale at LinuxCon
[15:08] <kees> cjwatson: what's happened with the DMB?
[15:08] <cjwatson> dholbach beat me to most of the web editing
[15:09] <cjwatson> I was going to do the last bit (announcements), but then ran across the controversy about the DMB process in my mailbox
[15:09] <cjwatson> so I replied to that and would prefer to hold off on announcements until we have basic agreement there
[15:09] <kees> the doc updates were actually jono's item, so perhaps he delegated?
[15:09] <cjwatson> I think we maybe both got them or something
[15:09] <cjwatson> but anywya
[15:10] <cjwatson> dholbach evidently feels very strongly about preserving something similar to the current MC process
[15:10] <kees> [ACTION] TB to further discuss DMB and come to resolution on next steps for Agenda
[15:10] <MootBot> ACTION received:  TB to further discuss DMB and come to resolution on next steps for Agenda
[15:10] <cjwatson> the only thing I feel strongly about is providing the opportunity for private feedback where it's needed
[15:10] <cjwatson> so I suspect there is room for compromise here
[15:10]  * kees nods
[15:10] <cjwatson> assuming that I'm not way out of line with the rest of the board
[15:10] <Keybuk> indeed, there doesn't seem to be anything terminal about the discussions
[15:11] <dholbach> cjwatson: as I said: I really don't mind if the DMB or other Boards/Councils adapt the process a bit to their own needs, but to me it's not clear which problems we're trying to fix and what we sacrifice along the way
[15:11] <cjwatson> shall we discuss that today after we've got through the rest of the agenda?
[15:11] <cjwatson> try to, anyway
[15:11] <Keybuk> sure
[15:11] <dholbach> sure
[15:12] <kees> and the last actions to review were archive reorg items from the last meeting for cjwatson (you really were an action-storm)  :)
[15:12] <pitti> yep
[15:12] <cjwatson> I didn't get through all the teams, but I kicked things off with a couple of them
[15:12] <cjwatson> we have agenda items later, and there's an open mail thread about Kubuntu
[15:12] <kees> ok, we'll re-cover ArchReorg in a bit..
[15:13] <kees> any actions from last time I missed?
[15:13] <kees> [TOPIC] Removal of sun-java6
[15:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Removal of sun-java6
[15:13] <kees> so, based on feedback, I'd like to drop this suggestion.
[15:13] <pitti> this currently still seems to be in ongoing discussion
[15:14] <cjwatson> kees: agreed based on mails - it seems too early, unfortunately
[15:14] <cjwatson> however
[15:14] <pitti> it wasn't clear to me how much the partner archve team depends on that..
[15:14] <kees> agreed, though I was easily able to disprove a number of claims.
[15:14] <pitti> but could we perhpas move it to the partner archive then?
[15:14] <doko> pitti: well, then lets move it to partner to make this clear
[15:14] <cjwatson> it might be a good idea to make a public announcement of some kind (if there hasn't been one already?) to the effect that we intend to drop Sun Java, and that people should move forthwith
[15:14] <cjwatson> I'm not clear on how well it would be maintained in partner
[15:15] <kees> I think Canonical needs to declare it either partner or restricted.  As restricted is for drivers only, I would push for partner.
[15:15] <pitti> kees: well, I'm not so worried about it being in multiverse
[15:15] <pitti> rather that we never officially supported it and don't provide timely security updates, etc.
[15:15] <doko> cjwatson: that's up to partner
[15:15] <kees> pitti: but the concerns of supportability are quite real
[15:15] <pitti> and yet it seems to be a crucial dependencies of Canonical's commercial offerings
[15:15] <cjwatson> doko: sure, but nevertheless I feel some responsibility to the organisation as a whole
[15:16] <cjwatson> dumping it on partner if they don't in practice have the skill to maintain it is not actually going to be an improvement
[15:16] <doko> agreed, but we don't dedicate the resource from the distribution team for it
[15:16] <kees> is the location of sun-java6 out of scope for TB?
[15:16] <pitti> parner isn't bound by our strict SRU rules, so it creates less paperwork to update the version there; that doesn't drop the need to be able to run the TCK on it, of course
[15:16] <cjwatson> kees: I think it's in scope, although it may be a bikeshed :)
[15:16]  * kees nods
[15:17] <doko> pitti: we never did run the TCK on sun-java6
[15:17] <pitti> well, if we as Canonical determine to spend platform team time on it, then it can equally be maintained in partner
[15:17] <pitti> conversely, just keeping it in multiverse isn't going to help the parner archive if nobody actually maintains it
[15:17] <cjwatson> pitti: it can, but what does it buy us - we could just as well basically waive all the SRU rules
[15:18] <pitti> cjwatson: *nod*
[15:18] <cjwatson> the only real difference is a kind of abrogation of responsibility, but as I said I'm not convinced that that will actually turn out to be a net win
[15:18] <pitti> the main question here is indeed who's going to maintian it; the compoent/archive is just secondary
[15:18] <kees> we did waive most of the SRU rules for it already for Hardy
[15:18] <cjwatson> we might just find that we get into an enormous spat with corp services that would chew up more time than just keeping it updated :)
[15:19] <pitti> OTOH for hardy we already lose; we can't remove sun-java5 from the hardy archive
[15:19] <pitti> I'm not sure whether we could if it was in parner (but it woudln't make too much sense to do so, granted)
[15:19] <cjwatson> we could, in principle
[15:19] <cjwatson> but only if nothing were using it ...
[15:20] <kees> let's move this to email?
[15:20] <kees> does anyone want to volunteer to drive the discuss there?
[15:20] <pitti> we already have a thread for it, and need in put from corp services anyway, so yes
[15:21] <kees> [ACTION] kees to drive sun-java6 email thread and get resolution on responsibility
[15:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kees to drive sun-java6 email thread and get resolution on responsibility
[15:21] <kees> [TOPIC] Developer application board
[15:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Developer application board
[15:21] <kees> Keybuk: anything left on this?
[15:21] <Keybuk> agreeing on the process
[15:21] <Keybuk> and using the board
[15:21] <kees> oh wait, this is DMB
[15:21]  * kees got tricked by the name change
[15:21] <Keybuk> ;)
[15:22] <kees> so, what should we do here?  there's an active email thread?
[15:23] <dholbach> if you want, we can discuss this via email and do the units policy first - I think the DMB process would benefit from the input from all TB members
[15:23] <kees> s/?$/./
[15:23] <dholbach> and I'd appreciate all your thoughts
[15:23] <Keybuk> for me, the two points I'd like to retain on the policy are
[15:23] <Keybuk> - ability to give private feedback to applicants
[15:23] <cjwatson> my proposal (which I think I intended as a compromise proposal) on the list was to use the MC process but with a facility for private comments, and making it clear that people can elect to have their app processed purely by mail if they aren't comfortable otherwise
[15:23] <cjwatson> but to default to the most transparent format
[15:23] <Keybuk> - I don't like applicants having to turn up at a fixed slot IRC meeting and compete for time with each other
[15:24] <cjwatson> re meeting times
[15:24] <cjwatson> I'd say that since the DMB is doing nothing else but process applications, its meetings should be scheduled for convenience to applicants where it's possible (obv. still within sane times for the board)
[15:24] <cjwatson> rather than being fixed-time-every-two-weeks
[15:24] <kees> cjwatson: your proposal seems about where I was headed, yes.  Keybuk: noted, though perhaps restating it in email would help?
[15:25] <Keybuk> cjwatson: I'm worried that approach is doomed to failure to the difficulty of scheduling a meeting with so many different people
[15:25] <kees> I'd like to get an action for the DMB topic... who would be willing to drive the thread to conclusion?
[15:26] <dholbach> I think it'd help if we there was some explanation what needs changing from the current UbuntuDevelopers processes and why
[15:26] <pitti> just to make sure, this meeting is a public one, so it's totally orthogonal to the "private feedback" issue, right?
[15:26] <dholbach> to me it feels like that's the best basis to drive this forward quickly
[15:26] <cjwatson> dholbach: surely we have gone over that at great length in previous threads
[15:26]  * cody-somerville wonders when the TB is going to invite him to a meeting to proceed with his application.
[15:27] <cjwatson> Keybuk: maybe not quite as far as I suggested, but perhaps have several available meeting slots that people could choose between
[15:27] <cjwatson> which wouldn't necessarily get you the whole board, but at least a quorum
[15:27] <kees> cjwatson: would you be willing to drive the email thread, since you've proposed the most recent compromise?
[15:28] <cjwatson> kees: yes, I guess so
[15:28] <kees> [ACTION] cjwatson to drive DMB email thread to conclusion
[15:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to drive DMB email thread to conclusion
[15:28] <Keybuk> if we reduced the DMB quorum it might work
[15:28] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: I'm sorry we suck, and it's because we're trying to sort out this process transition - the first thing to do after we're agreed on this is to deal with the backlog
[15:28] <kees> [TOPIC] Discuss UnitsPolicy
[15:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss UnitsPolicy
[15:29] <pitti> I like the proposal a lot
[15:29] <Keybuk> is benjamin here?
[15:29] <bdrung_> yes
[15:29] <Keybuk> hey
[15:29] <kees> so, feedback on this showed (as before) disagreements about disk space representation?
[15:29] <pitti> however, we shouldn't immediatley turn it into RC bugs, but use it as a reference when filing bugs and forwarding to upstream, etc.
[15:30] <pitti> but bringing some consistency to at least desktop apps is in order indeed
[15:30] <Keybuk> kees: I think the current consensus is that the policy as bdrung_ is largely correct, except that we would rather that the default unit for file sizes be base 10
[15:30] <Keybuk> pitti: definitely agree
[15:30] <pitti> i. e. nautilus gets it completely wrong
[15:30] <pitti> "687,3 MB" for a CD-ROM image, and so on
[15:30] <kees> Keybuk: ok, but that base2 vs base10 for file sizes seems to be the core issue (even from long ago discussions of this)
[15:30] <bdrung_> Keybuk: the default is base-10, where de you read something else?
[15:30] <cjwatson> I'm willing to abstain on the file size question. I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with it because I do predict some confusion
[15:31] <kees> the focus for the proposal is desktop UI only?
[15:31] <pitti> I actually have a pretty strong opinion about it
[15:31] <bdrung_> kees: no
[15:31] <Keybuk> I think there's confusion either way with this
[15:31] <pitti> file sizes and disk sizes should have the same base
[15:31] <pitti> I don't want to explain someone why 1000 1 MB files don't fit on a 1 GB stick
[15:31] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I agree, that's why I'm inclined to abstain rather than -1
[15:32] <Keybuk> bdrung_: well, other than the fact that the traditional unix tools can't be modified without breaking apps that parse their output
[15:32] <cjwatson> unfortunately file sizes interact with memory too, which is why it gets confusing
[15:32] <kees> Keybuk: that is my concern as well.
[15:32] <cjwatson> but there really isn't much we can do, we lose either way
[15:32] <bdrung_> Keybuk: look at the exception
[15:32] <cjwatson> my main concern is that if desktop UI is *inconsistent* about describing file sizes (I don't mean inconsistent about file vs. disk) then it will be awful
[15:32] <cjwatson> so I wouldn't want us to be swimming against the tide here
[15:33] <pitti> it is already
[15:33] <pitti> e. g. gnome-disk-utility uses (proper) GB and GiB for sizes
[15:33] <Keybuk> right, there's already massive inconsistency here
[15:33] <pitti> whereas nautilus uses base-2 GB
[15:33] <Keybuk> and I don't think that inventing a solution that creates a new unit is helping either
[15:33] <cjwatson> new unit> *shudder*
[15:34] <Keybuk> nobody, except the clipboard-carrying, adenoid-affected, pedantic crazies know what a kibibyte is
[15:34] <Keybuk> or why one matters
[15:35] <Keybuk> it sounds like we've reached a consensus on this
[15:35] <pitti> so for the policy, there are currently only two options for file sizes
[15:35] <pitti> (show both, or provide option)
[15:35] <Keybuk> I'll take an action to fix up bdrung_'s draft and mail to the TB for approval
[15:35] <cjwatson> bdale: welcome
[15:35] <pitti> but I think there are cases where we can/should display only one
[15:36] <kees> [ACTION] Keybuk to finalize unit policy and email to TB
[15:36] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Keybuk to finalize unit policy and email to TB
[15:36] <pitti> and I think for those cases we should display only base-10
[15:36] <bdrung_> pitti: i agree
[15:36] <bdale> cjwatson: thanks.  in Portland at LinuxCon, just woke up and saw your email.  thought I'd at least lurk until dragged off to breakfast, will put mtg on my calendar starting next week
[15:36] <cjwatson> good stuff. it's every two weeks FWIW
[15:37] <bdale> even better.  thanks.
[15:37] <cjwatson> I gather the TB members who are in Portland intend to drag you off for beer or something at some point :)
[15:37] <kees> bdrung_: how does this all sound to you?
[15:37]  * bdale shrugs ... I'd be unlikely to resist.  ;-)
[15:37] <bdrung_> kees: sounds good
[15:38] <kees> [TOPIC] community bugs
[15:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  community bugs
[15:38] <kees> none waiting...
[15:38] <kees> [TOPIC] select a chair for next meeting
[15:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  select a chair for next meeting
[15:39]  * pitti volunteers
[15:39] <cjwatson> did we skip the archivereorg bits?
[15:39] <pitti> got to learn it, after all
[15:39] <pitti> cjwatson: was just going to ask after the chair thing
[15:39] <kees> cjwatson: oh, er, we did, sorry.
[15:39] <kees> [TOPIC] archive reorg
[15:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  archive reorg
[15:39] <cjwatson> so I put two subtopics on, but dholbach raised a concern first that applies to both
[15:40] <cjwatson> basically, do we want to enforce that teams to which we delegate the right to grant upload authority use something like the standard developer process
[15:40] <kees> how could we enforce that?
[15:40] <cjwatson> well, by not delegating unless they promise to do so :)
[15:41] <cjwatson> I think dholbach is concerned that membership processes should be consistent across the project
[15:41] <kees> heh, well, that's not enforcement, but it is a requirement/agreement.
[15:41] <dholbach> I think we should have similar expectations of Councils and Boards that approve developers
[15:41] <cjwatson> personally I think it's more important for developer teams to be able to operate efficiently, as long as we're confident that they're checking the basics
[15:41] <kees> I think having a minimal process is good.  some teams may have additional requirements above & beyond.
[15:41] <cjwatson> in other words, I think the standard elements should be what is required of the applicants, not the process
[15:42] <Keybuk> on the other hand, a relatively standard process reducing the overwhelming confusion of applying
[15:42] <cjwatson> since most people go through the process at most a handful of times
[15:42] <cjwatson> it's not as if they'll get used to it :)
[15:42] <pitti> right, e. g. until now, we granted ubuntu-desktop membership without a formal process; it was so far an act of mutual agreement, and considering someone "trusted and ready"
[15:42] <Keybuk> if you don't know whether you need to write a wiki page, write an e-mail, talk to someone on IRC, or master a secret handshake and go to a LUG meeting...
[15:42] <cjwatson> pitti: and actually, I sort of think that's healthy and much more like how other projects work
[15:42] <pitti> but so far, people didn't "apply"; we invited them once they had done good work for a while
[15:43] <kees> I don't think it should be invite-only; that can be rather off-putting.
[15:43] <pitti> that's for example why I never write something into the "needs improvement" section of an advocacy
[15:43] <Keybuk> pitti: I don't think that's a problem
[15:43] <cjwatson> I'm not out to burn all process here; but I wonder, take mythbuntu for example
[15:43] <pitti> I don't advocate if I had something serious to write in it
[15:43] <Keybuk> but people should be able to apply to join ubuntu-desktop, and if they do, it should be a relatively standard process
[15:43] <dholbach> I think there's a lot of middle ground for transparency, minimal process, consistency, regularity, clarity, efficiency and "being ready"
[15:44] <cjwatson> last week, we seemed to have some kind of agreement to delegate to mythbuntu-dev, owned by superm1
[15:44] <cjwatson> do we expect Mario to hold meetings by himself? :)
[15:44] <pitti> kees: invite-only> I don't say that we should, just saying that this has been existing practice for -desktop so far
[15:44] <Keybuk> but I don't think we need to say that boards have to follow that process for all members
[15:44] <Keybuk> boards should have the freedom to elect their own membership directly
[15:44] <cjwatson> right, I definitely think the application process should be standard
[15:44] <pitti> but there should certainly be some minimal requirements
[15:44] <cjwatson> ish
[15:44] <pitti> like, being an ubuntu member at least
[15:45] <kees> pitti: certainly; yes.  I would say invite-style tends to result in the strongest results.
[15:45] <cjwatson> pitti: (historically, being granted developer access is in itself automatic membership)
[15:45] <Keybuk> pitti: quite the opposite, being approved into ubuntu-dev *confers* membership
[15:45] <pitti> well, I meant
[15:45] <Daviey> cjwatson: superm1 is confident that he can entrust a number of people in mythbuntu-dev soon.
[15:45] <pitti> having signed the CoC, at least
[15:46] <kees> pitti: yes, CoC seems an absolute minimum.
[15:46] <cjwatson> Daviey: yes, that doesn't mean we'd be entrusting all those people with administration of that team though
[15:46] <cjwatson> which is what I'm talking about here
[15:46] <Keybuk> administration is orthogonal to membership isn't it?
[15:46] <cjwatson> administration of an upload team is the ability to grant upload access
[15:46] <Daviey> cjwatson: Surely the honcho can be delegated responsibility with adding and removing people, or should that always be via the TB?
[15:47] <cjwatson> Daviey: we're talking at cross-purposes
[15:47] <Keybuk> cjwatson: yes, but that's a TB decision no?
[15:47] <dholbach> plus you want to know that they know what they're doing technically (obvious), know how to work with the team and how Ubuntu processes in general work (important overtime) - I know that that list of requirements is hand-wavy, but it's the things the MC were after up until now
[15:47] <Daviey> oh, apologise.
[15:47] <cjwatson> ok, wait
[15:47] <Keybuk> the topic is the process that the teams should follow for approving developers
[15:47] <Keybuk> not administrators
[15:47] <cjwatson> let me explain please
[15:48] <cjwatson> last week, we were talking about mythbuntu. *at the moment* superm1 is the only person likely to be an administrator of its dev team
[15:48] <Daviey> yes.
[15:48] <cjwatson> and there was a little exchange between myself and Keybuk where we seemed to agree that we ought to delegate upload access to that dev team
[15:48] <cjwatson> now, *right now*, that would mean that superm1 would have the ability to grant upload access for mythbuntu packages
[15:48] <cjwatson> and I'm saying that it's more than a little bizarre to require him to hold little IRC meetings in order to do so
[15:49] <cjwatson> or at least it feels thus to me
[15:49] <Keybuk> right, I'm entirely agreeing
[15:49] <cjwatson> indeed it is a TB decision whether to delegate
[15:49] <Keybuk> but I do think it's ok that if somebody wants to apply to superm1 for upload access, they should follow a standard pattern
[15:49] <Daviey> hmm.. wouldn't that meeting be well held between a contrib team and the core/dev team?
[15:49] <Keybuk> (write a wiki page, e-mail an address)
[15:49] <Daviey> so in this case, ~mythbuntu and ~mythbuntu-dev ?
[15:49] <Keybuk> but what superm1 does after that should be flexible
[15:50] <cjwatson> Daviey: all of motu don't normally turn up when people are applying to be core-devs :)
[15:50] <Keybuk> I also think that if superm1 wants to, as a team admin, invite people himself - the application process doesn't apply
[15:50] <cjwatson> it's usually the board responsible for approving, plus the applicant
[15:50] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I think we're entirely in agreement
[15:50] <Daviey> The TB is entrusting superm1's judgment.. which is good IMO.
[15:51] <kees> so which things are we trying to decide here?  that we can delegate admins, that devs should follow a minimal process, or both?
[15:51] <Keybuk> for example, one team might just do things by e-mail
[15:51] <Keybuk> another team might use IRC meetings
[15:51] <Keybuk> and another team might actually say you have to turn up to the team's usual weekly meeting and be interviewed by the entire team
[15:51] <Keybuk> these are all quite valid to me as approval processes
[15:51] <Keybuk> but the approval process should be up to the team
[15:52] <Keybuk> whereas the application process should be standardish
[15:52] <Keybuk> or, at least, there should be a standard application process that all teams should honour
[15:52] <Keybuk> at the very least, it makes the documentation easier ;)
[15:52] <cjwatson> kees: Daniel expressed to me a concern that team admins should follow a standard transparent process when dealing with applications (I hope I'm not misrepresenting him here), and I wanted to bring that up here
[15:53] <Daviey> In the case of ~mythbuntu, it is quite a small/close team that talk daily via IRC.. I would find it *odd* if someone wanted to apply to ~mythbuntu-dev, if they weren't already known by ~mythbuntu
[15:53] <cjwatson> *personally*, I agree with Keybuk that it's more important for the start of the process (how you apply) to be standard
[15:53] <kees> cjwatson: ok.  sounds like we agree about this, should we vote specifically on that?
[15:53] <pitti> IMHO at least the confirmation from an admin should be in email on a public list, to have a permanent record of who was added where (and avoid errors in LP team management)
[15:53] <kees> oh wait, "dealing" is the issue?
[15:54] <kees> Keybuk: you'd like to split it into "application" (standard) and approval (up to the admin)
[15:54] <cjwatson> because once you're in the application process, it's normal for you to be guided through it somehow, told what to do next or whatever
[15:54] <pitti> Daviey: for your team, invitation-style will probably work best
[15:54] <Keybuk> kees: yes
[15:54] <cjwatson> pitti: agreed
[15:54] <Keybuk> kees: different teams will find different approval methods work best for them
[15:54] <cjwatson> and preferably a link in some form to where it was discussed, if available
[15:54] <Daviey> pitti: yeah.. but what i'm saying is a standarish application process wouldn't work that well, in that example, in my opinion.
[15:55] <pitti> Daviey: true
[15:55] <Keybuk> forcing a method intended for a Very Large Team like ubuntu-core-dev/motu onto the smallest teams does not seem to be appropriate to me
[15:55] <pitti> so what about
[15:55] <kees> (5 minutes remaining)
[15:55] <pitti> team pages like https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop should point out the application/approval process
[15:55] <pitti> and that ^ gets approved by teh TB/DMB?
[15:56] <kees> pitti: each process gets approved?
[15:56] <Keybuk> that doesn't allow flexible process
[15:56] <pitti> kees: well, it's only two handful?
[15:56] <Daviey> For small teams, the designated honcho could trigger all the invitations, if people don't feel that person is doing a good job, could raise the issue to the TB?
[15:56] <Keybuk> and I think that's too much paperwork
[15:56] <pitti> Keybuk: why not?
[15:56] <cjwatson> I'd like to hear dholbach's opinion on the above discussion before we go to a vote
[15:56] <Keybuk> I think it's better that we simply say that if anyone's unhappy with their application to a team, they can always go to the TB
[15:56] <Keybuk> and we can investigate
[15:56] <kees> given we have 4 minutes, should we move this to email?  Keybuk to drive it?
[15:57] <pitti> Keybuk: if e. g. superm1 says "by invitation or you mail to mythbuntu@ for applying", that could be blessed by DMB
[15:57] <Keybuk> pitti: TB not DMB :)
[15:57] <cjwatson> if we can vote by mail on the two teams I put on the agenda for today, I'm fine with moving to mail
[15:57] <pitti> right, sorry
[15:57] <pitti> anyway, I'm fine with trusting the team admins as well for the app process
[15:57] <Keybuk> I'm happy to vote now
[15:57] <cjwatson> dholbach: ^?
[15:57] <Keybuk> but we haven't heard from dholbach yet
[15:57] <pitti> but that seemed to make dholbach unhappy
[15:58] <pitti> my personal main concern is to have a permanent documentation about approvals
[15:58] <pitti> not so much about the app process, since I believe that will sort out itself
[15:58] <dholbach> sorry, I was busy chasing up two other things in the meantime, reading up
[15:58] <kees> cjwatson: so, what is the vote, then?  that ubuntu-desktop gets upload rights?
[15:58] <pitti> someone who wants to apply to -desktop or mythbunty, but never speaks to the existing members won't have a big chance of getting approved anyway
[16:00] <james_w> I would appreciate at least an announcement when people are added to the various teams, notifying TB/DMB/ubuntu-devel or something
[16:00] <cjwatson> yeah, the entire point of those teams is that they work together, which is a criterion that (these days) just doesn't apply to the big teams in general
[16:00] <cjwatson> james_w: agreed
[16:00] <cjwatson> or at least doesn't apply nearly as consistency
[16:00] <cjwatson> consistently
[16:00] <Keybuk> james_w: agreed
[16:00] <Keybuk> (and the same should apply to the DMB as a delegated team :p)
[16:00] <kees> [ACTION] cjwatson to drive vote on Archive Reorg rights for ubuntu-desktop and mythbuntu in email
[16:00] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to drive vote on Archive Reorg rights for ubuntu-desktop and mythbuntu in email
[16:00] <kees> we're out of time...
[16:00] <cjwatson> ok, so it goes
[16:01] <kees> sorry to rush it, but we've got a team for this slot
[16:01] <kees> #endmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:01.
[16:01] <dholbach> sorry :(
[16:01]  * ttx didn't say anything :)
[16:01] <james_w> dholbach: should we still be pushing for the DMB to use the process that the MC drafted, given that the MC had to change their process in order to approve the last set of applicants?
[16:01] <ttx> OK, Server team meeting, now
[16:02] <james_w> oops, sorry, let's go -> #-devel
[16:02] <dholbach> james_w: yeah, in a sec
[16:02] <ttx> who is here for the server team meeting ?
[16:02] <nurmi_> o/
[16:02] <erichammond> o/
[16:02] <alexm> o/
[16:02] <Daviey> \o
[16:02] <nealmcb> o/
[16:02] <tarvid1> o/ whatever that means
[16:02] <zul> heylo
[16:02] <sommer> o//
[16:02] <soren> o/
[16:03] <ttx> ok, let's start and try to fit the hour
[16:03] <ttx> #startmeeting
[16:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is ttx.
[16:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:03] <ttx> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:03] <ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[16:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[16:03] <nijaba> o/
[16:03] <ttx> ACTION: soren to add manifest files to UEC images build system for alpha6
[16:04] <soren> Done.
[16:04] <ttx> ACTION: Daviey to update Asterisk 1.6 to RC1
[16:04] <Daviey> In bzr and PPA, need sponsorhsip
[16:04] <Daviey> that is RC2 now :)
[16:04] <ttx> bug # ?
[16:04] <Daviey> ttx: sponsorship via prodding
[16:05] <ttx> Daviey: ok.
[16:05] <ttx> [ACTION] Daviey to get his Asterisk 1.6RC2 update sponsored
[16:05] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to get his Asterisk 1.6RC2 update sponsored
[16:05] <Daviey> (it's also NOW free sofware FWIW) :)
[16:05] <ttx> ACTION: soren to publish ec2-version-query in a more appropriate place
[16:06] <soren> Uh.. I'm not completely sure, actually.
[16:06] <soren> smoser: Do you know anything about this?
[16:07] <smoser> i'm not aware of it being published in a different place, nor the status that.
[16:07]  * soren makes a note to prod someone about it.
[16:08] <ttx> [ACTION] soren to clear out status for ec2-version-query publication
[16:08] <MootBot> ACTION received:  soren to clear out status for ec2-version-query publication
[16:08] <soren> but?
[16:08] <soren> Oh, that's a new action :)
[16:08] <ttx> I suppose "ACTION: soren to automate updating of ec2-version-query" is in the same status ?
[16:08] <soren> I thought that was another action item from last meeting :)
[16:08] <soren> They're very, very closely related, yes.
[16:08] <ttx> ACTION: zul to ensure rabbitmq-server gets reviewed and promoted
[16:09] <zul> done
[16:09] <ttx> ACTION: soren to sponsor the patch for bug 420581 and update his vmbuilder on nectarine
[16:10] <soren> done.
[16:10] <soren> smoser: Please correct me if I'm wrong.
[16:10] <ttx> kirkland: around ?
[16:11] <ttx> I suppose not, I'll postpone hs actionsreview until next meeting
[16:11] <smoser> 420581 is fix released and verified in alpha6
[16:11] <soren> smoser: Thanks.
[16:11] <ttx> [ACTION] kirkland to open discussion on how to best solve the remaining configuration options on Moodle appliance
[16:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to open discussion on how to best solve the remaining configuration options on Moodle appliance
[16:11] <ttx> [ACTION] kirkland to get help from soren and smoser on proper UEC-compatible image generation
[16:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to get help from soren and smoser on proper UEC-compatible image generation
[16:11] <ttx> [ACTION] kirkland to discuss with niemeyer and nurmi about ImageStore integration testing
[16:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to discuss with niemeyer and nurmi about ImageStore integration testing
[16:11] <ttx> ACTION: ivoks to file FFe for the redhat-cluster update
[16:12] <ttx> bug 429834
[16:13] <ttx> Hm, is syncing from PPA a common practice ? i.e. should ivoks subscribe ubuntu-archive to that bug ?
[16:13]  * soren wonders why pitti approved it, but didn't sync it.
[16:14]  * soren asks pitti
[16:14] <mdz> ttx, FYI I'm here, but not caught up enough to know what's going on, so mostly lurking :-)
[16:14] <ttx> mdz: ok :)
[16:14] <ttx> ok, let's continue in the meantime
[16:14] <ttx> [TOPIC] Alpha6 postmortem analysis
[16:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha6 postmortem analysis
[16:15]  * mathiaz waves
[16:15] <ttx> So last week was Alpha6 release, as you may already know
[16:15] <ttx> This went globally better than alpha5 but there are still things to cover for the beta release
[16:16] <ttx> * Define seeds for vmbuilder to use (soren)
[16:16] <ttx> soren: any status update on that ?
[16:16] <soren> I believe that's in cjwatson's court at the moment.
[16:17] <mdz> soren, you've provided the package list?
[16:17] <soren> mdz: No, I can make the seed myself. I've just asked cjwatson's advice as to where to put it. It's not completely transparent to me with the way it's split up now.
[16:18] <ttx> ok.
[16:18] <ttx> * MIR all non-main packages used in images (smoser)
[16:18] <smoser> working on it.
[16:18] <smoser>      ec2-init         434693 : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionEc2-Init
[16:18] <smoser>      euca2ools        434697 : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionEuca2ools
[16:18] <smoser>      python-boto      434701 : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionPython-Boto
[16:18] <smoser>      python-cheetah   xxxxxx : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionCheetah
[16:18] <smoser>      python-configobj xxxxxx : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionConfigobj
[16:18] <smoser>      python-m2crypto  xxxxxx : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionM2crypto
[16:18] <soren> mdz: kubuntu, for instance, is a separate branch. Is EC2 enough of a different product to also warrant a separate branch?
[16:18] <soren> mdz: That sort of thing.
[16:18] <ttx> smoser: is euca2ools part of it ?
[16:18] <ttx> ok
[16:18] <smoser> yes.
[16:19] <ttx> About euca2ools, a question for nurmi_ :
[16:19] <soren> Ḯ'm reasonably sure we can get rid of configobj.
[16:19] <nurmi_> ttx: shoot
[16:19] <ttx> nurmi_: you advised us to package the latest. Does it fix the 403 Forbidden TZ-related issue ?
[16:19] <ttx> bug 431847
[16:20] <nurmi_> ttx: it certainly solves the 403 authentication failue with 'run-instances' and 'authorize/revoke'.  The timezone issue, I'll have to investigate further (having trouble reproducing it)
[16:21] <cjwatson> soren: hmm, OK, I think I sort of missed that that was in my court; I'll deal with that
[16:21] <cjwatson> or tell you how to anyway
[16:21] <ttx> nurmi_: so it solves bug 430093 ?
[16:21] <nurmi_> ttx: correct
[16:21] <ttx> ok, so we need to package that, at least
[16:22] <soren> cjwatson: Cool, thanks.
[16:22] <ttx> soren: do you agree on that ?
[16:22] <soren> ttx: Do you? :) You tested it, and said it didn't work. Or has it been fixed since then?
[16:22] <ttx> soren: it fixes a separate issue.
[16:23] <soren> Ok, then.
[16:23] <soren> Well, then yes.
[16:23] <soren> Let's get the latest crack :)
[16:23] <ttx> fixes bug 430093, not bug 431847
[16:23] <ttx> [ACTION] soren to update to latest euca2ools
[16:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  soren to update to latest euca2ools
[16:23] <ttx> * Publish ec2-version-query in a appropriate place -- we already talked about that one
[16:24] <ttx> * Automate image publishing (smoser)
[16:24] <soren> Right.
[16:24] <mdz> ttx, speaking of euca2ools, I'm a bit concerned that I've heard the command line syntax is not compatible with the EC2 tools
[16:24] <ttx> smoser: How does beta release come up wrt this goal ?
[16:24] <smoser> not there yet.  I actually haven't heard anything back on the ticket.
[16:25] <ttx> smoser: ping them harder
[16:25] <smoser> i think that there are several things on my plate higher than this (mainly fixing bugs for that beta release).
[16:25] <smoser> the publishing is painful, but doable manually
[16:25] <nurmi_> mdz: in the newest package, this has also been addressed
[16:25] <mdz> nurmi_, oh, excellent
[16:26] <nurmi_> mdz: there may be a few remaining inconsistencies, but the major ones were taken care of (i'll look into it and report)
[16:26] <soren> nurmi_: Oh.
[16:26] <soren> nurmi_: So it changed its own cli interface?
[16:26] <ttx> * Add build toolchain version numbers to manifests (soren)
[16:26] <mdz> nurmi_, is it worth exploring providing ec2-* pathnames so that users can use the familiar commands (and copy/paste examples)?
[16:26] <soren> ttx: Err... Toolchain versions... in the manifest? That would be wrong, wouldn't it?
[16:27] <ttx> soren: manifests were also supposed to contain version numbers for the tools used to generate the images. Last time I looked, there were only package version numbers from inside the image
[16:27] <soren> I mean... The manifest should list what's in the image, not what was used to build it.
[16:27] <soren> Oh.
[16:27] <ttx> soren: that was mdz's original request for the manifest
[16:27] <mdz> soren, both are useful
[16:27] <nurmi_> soren: the goal was to be commandline compatible, we consider inconsistencies to be incorrect behavior (had some conflicts with python getopt, originally)
[16:27] <soren> I'm slightly surprised by this. We do have that information inside the image, though.
[16:27] <mdz> I realize we don't do this for the CD images at present
[16:28] <soren> mdz: Ahah. Ok, that's what I thought.
[16:28] <mdz> but there seems to be a much closer relationship in the case of the UEC images
[16:28] <mdz> or at least they're changing more frequently
[16:28] <soren> mdz: You'd put it in the same manifest?
[16:28] <nurmi_> mdz: perhaps, although the output of the two tools can sometimes be different (errors in particular, since the tools are written in different languages)
[16:28] <mdz> soren, if bugs in the images are often resolved by changing the build tools, we should include those IMO
[16:29] <mdz> soren, whether it's the same file, or a separate file, or whatever, doesn't matter to me
[16:29] <mdz> so long as it's possible to figure out what was used
[16:29] <soren> mdz: Ok. So the entire dependency chain of VMBuilder? Everything from VMbuilder itself down to libc?
[16:29] <soren> Or just the VMBuilder revno?
[16:29] <mdz> soren, no, just vmbuilder
[16:29] <soren> Ok.
[16:30] <ttx> [ACTION] soren to add image-generation-toolchain version numbers to manifests
[16:30] <MootBot> ACTION received:  soren to add image-generation-toolchain version numbers to manifests
[16:30] <mdz> soren, this is based on my understanding that vmbuilder does more than just aggregate packages
[16:30] <smoser> soren, probably automated-ec2-builds also
[16:30] <mdz> soren, the vmbuilder command line seems relevant as well
[16:30] <soren> mdz: Right.
[16:30] <smoser> mdz, cmdline is included in the 'automated-ec2-builds' that i mentioned above.
[16:31]  * soren will come up with something.
[16:31] <ttx> Any other comment on Alpha6 ?
[16:31] <soren> Are people expecting the manifest to be machine parsable?
[16:31] <mdz> how did the kernel turn out?
[16:31] <smoser> kernel is so far very good. the only issue that I have heard anything about is the lack of modules.
[16:31] <mdz> smoser, why are we missing modules?
[16:32] <smoser> bug 428692 .
[16:32] <ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap review: UEC/EC2 images bugs
[16:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review: UEC/EC2 images bugs
[16:32] <ttx> since we are on them :)
[16:32] <mdz> smoser, oh, you mean missing config options (not that the modules are missing from the images)?
[16:33] <ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images
[16:33] <smoser> and bug 429169.
[16:33] <ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=uec-images
[16:33] <smoser> the missing modules from the image is the second one there.  and i just tagged that as target beta. requires vmbuilder changes to get the image inside.
[16:34] <nurmi_> is there going to be a condoned kernel for use with the UEC image on UEC?
[16:34] <smoser> nurmi_, bug 429106
[16:34] <ttx> smoser: how is this one going ?
[16:35] <ttx> It would sure help the process of using those images.
[16:35] <mdz> forgive my ignorance, but is it necessary to provide the kernel and initramfs separately when we're using KVM?
[16:36] <nurmi_> mdz: in eucalyptus, yes, since part of the EC2 semantic allows users to select a kernel/ramdisk at instance run time
[16:36] <mdz> smoser, why does it require vmbuilder changes? it seems like it should just be a matter of installing the appropriate kernel package inside the image
[16:36] <mdz> nurmi_, and that's implemented even for kvm instances?
[16:36] <smoser> i've not started looking at it.  it is in general fairly trivial .some changes to vmbuilder to install the latest linux-image inside and then to copy it out and re-build the initrd after modifying /etc/initramdisk/modules (initrd should have acpiphp in it)
[16:36] <nurmi_> mdz: nod, we specify the kernel/ramdisk external to the image (which KVM allows)
[16:36] <mdz> neat
[16:37] <smoser> mdz, well, given the seeds discussion, the way vmbuilder getsa list of things to include in the image requires code change to change.
[16:37] <soren> It really doesn't have to. We should move the package list out of VMBuilder.
[16:37] <soren> ...and pass it on the command line.
[16:37] <mdz> smoser, ah, I see. hopefully that will be fixed soon
[16:37] <ttx> smoser: ok, anything blocking you on those bugs ? or anything targeted for beta that will not be doable ?
[16:38] <smoser> the thing blocking them is the MIRs that i posted above (just me working on them). I presumed that MIR were absolute highest priority. anyone refute that ?
[16:39] <smoser> i do not expect that there is anything targeted for beta that shouldn't make it. i'll go through the list today.
[16:39] <mdz> smoser, the MIRs are absolutely essential, but functional bugs may be higher priority
[16:39] <mdz> can someone else help with the MIRs to free smoser to work on functional bugs?
[16:39] <zul> i can do it
[16:39] <smoser> mdz, they're almost done. at least almost all "mostly filled out and bugs submitted"
[16:40] <ttx> [ACTION] zul to follow up on the UEC/EC2 packages MIR status
[16:40] <MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to follow up on the UEC/EC2 packages MIR status
[16:40] <smoser> i've got 2 more bugs to file then we'll have the set. and I would absolutely appreciate zul improving the MIR
[16:40] <ttx> smoser: the MIR team might ask some things to be fixed before accepting them
[16:40] <smoser> i expect that.
[16:40] <ttx> smoser: so it's good if someone else can keep an eye on them.
[16:40] <smoser> yeah.
[16:41] <ttx> ok, anything else on the EC2/UEC image front ?
[16:41] <ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap review: Packaging and integration of Eucalyptus 1.6
[16:41] <erichammond> It sounded like euca2ools had been settled on instead of Amazon's ec2-ami-tools.  Is this still planned?
[16:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review: Packaging and integration of Eucalyptus 1.6
[16:41] <ttx> erichammond: yes. It's necessary so that we only ship main packages in the images
[16:41] <smoser> erichammond, given the interest in all packages being in main, ew dont have an option.
[16:42] <Daviey> Isn't euca2ools incompatiable with pre 1.6?  If so, someone on karmic can't use it with jaunty Eucalyptus?
[16:42] <ttx> Daviey: that doesn't prevent you from using ec2-ami-tools
[16:42] <ttx> its just not installed by default
[16:42] <Daviey> ok, cool.
[16:42] <nurmi_> Daviey: euca2ools is compatible with eucalyptus >= 1.5.2
[16:42] <ttx> inside images.
[16:42] <smoser> and ec2-ami-tools and ec2-api-tools will remain in multiverse. a simple apt-get away.
[16:42] <ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=eucalyptus
[16:43] <ttx> so I did some usability testing on the Cluster install side
[16:43] <ttx> apart from already filed bugs, autoregister of services is in pretty bad shape
[16:44] <mdz> erichammond, any concerns with that? it's important that our image is "pure" Ubuntu
[16:44] <ttx> We used to register things from initscripts with "localhost" but that's now impossible
[16:44] <ttx> bug 434593
[16:44] <erichammond> mdz: I was just wondering if there is a bug entered for this task.  I didn't see one.
[16:44] <ttx> nurmi_: we supposed it's because we should never have done that i nthe first place ?
[16:45] <ttx> The issue is, we don't really know the external address we should use for registering.
[16:45] <mdz> smoser, is there a bug open for the fact that the images include unsupported packages?
[16:45] <nurmi_> ttx: that is true - the reason we cannot use 'localhost' to register is that the ip you supply at registration time becomes the URL of the service
[16:45] <nurmi_> ttx: i.e. S3_URL in your 'eucarc' is constructed using that value
[16:46] <ttx> nurmi_: I understand
[16:46] <smoser> mdz, no. i will open one.  is a single bug acceptable or do i need to do one per package?
[16:46] <ttx> nurmi_: but I fail to see how we can provide autoregistering for the "clc+cc+walrus+sc" setup then
[16:46] <mdz> smoser, one is sufficient, but please include a list of the problematic packages, and refer to the MIR bugs for each
[16:47] <ttx> I see no foolproof way to guess that address correctly.
[16:47] <smoser> mdz, yep. thanks.
[16:47] <mdz> smoser, or specify if some other action is to be taken (e.g. exchanging ec2-api-tools for euca2ools)
[16:47] <ttx> [ACTION] smoser to file one bug for the fact that the images include unsupported packages
[16:47] <MootBot> ACTION received:  smoser to file one bug for the fact that the images include unsupported packages
[16:48] <nurmi_> ttx: i agree, in the local case.  if thes services are all installed locally, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to ask the question at install time
[16:48] <nurmi_> ttx: perhaps in the same place during install where the installer asks 'what is your cluster name?'
[16:48] <nurmi_> ttx: adding 'what is your cluster's user and node facing IP?' here would I believe be sufficient
[16:48] <ttx> nurmi_: "What will be your cluster external IP ?"
[16:49] <soren> Internal.
[16:49] <nurmi_> both :)
[16:49] <soren> For this?
[16:49] <ttx> cjwatson: comments ?
[16:50] <ttx> nurmi_: I also filed bug 434651, since we'll want to do local copy with something that doesn't resolve to localhost
[16:50] <nurmi_> soren: the IP you give to '--register-walrus' will appear in eucarc as 'S3_URL', and will be sent to nodes when they need to fetch an image
[16:50] <mdz> smoser, should we update the starter's guide to use euca2ools rather than ec2-api-tools?
[16:50] <ttx> nurmi_: but I can fix that on our side, so no hurry
[16:50] <mdz> (or in addition to)
[16:50] <soren> nurmi_: Ah, right.
[16:51] <nurmi_> ttx: great, that is a nice addition, thanks
[16:51] <ttx> Another subject, BetaFreeze is Thursday
[16:51] <erichammond> mdz: Once euca2ools is installed in the image by default, so should the package which creates the ec2- symlinks.  Does that package exist yet?  Is there a bug?
[16:51] <zul> crap..
[16:51] <smoser> mdz, maybe provide alternate/duplicate info ?  if someone just wants to use an ubuntu server, it is possible that they do not have euca2ools.
[16:52] <ttx> so we won't blindly sync euclyptus upstream bugfix revisions
[16:52] <smoser> i nthat case, the ec2-api-tools serve a larger audience.
[16:52] <cjwatson> ttx: something like that seems OK, although in some cases the machine's IP may be dynamic
[16:52] <cjwatson> ttx: can we just ask for the hostname instead, as a slight insulation from that?
[16:53] <ttx> cjwatson: hostname tends to resove to 127.0.1.1, no ?
[16:53] <smoser> wait, i've missed something "the package that installs the symlinks" . I'm not aware of such a package.
[16:53] <cjwatson> ttx: that rather depends on the environment
[16:53] <smoser> and the euca2ools are not 100% compatible with ec2-{api,ami}-tools.  providing symlinks is somewhat suggesting they are.
[16:53] <mdz> smoser, I suggested earlier that we explore providing alternate pathnames (e.g. symlinks or alternatives) for the euca2ools, so they can be called using the ec2-* names
[16:54] <ttx> cjwatson: I tried to use hostname, but then autoregister would also fail with bug 434593
[16:54] <cjwatson> and isn't it better for a name to be part of the public service URL rather than an IP address?
[16:54] <mdz> smoser, nurmi_ indicated they were compatible, or at least intended to be with only minor and temporary deviations
[16:54] <soren> mdz:  I believe we decided not to, because of syntax differences.
[16:54] <soren> mdz: ...but since that's changed..
[16:54] <cjwatson> ttx: well, I think it's going to be ugly, but if you feel it's necessary, go for it
[16:54] <mdz> erichammond, it sounds like we don't have consensus yet that that is a good idea
[16:55] <ttx> cjwatson: alternative is to drop the idea of autoregistering components. Not sure how acceptable that would be
[16:55] <erichammond> mdz: Ok, we can discuss outside of the meeting.
[16:55] <cjwatson> we have to autoregister components, I think
[16:55] <nurmi_> mdz: there are a few things to consider, aside from commandline arguments
[16:55] <cjwatson> ttx: we could ask for a hostname but check that it resolves to something outside 127.0.0.0/8
[16:55] <mdz> ttx, is there a followup action recorded with regard to discussing providing ec2-* command names which call euca2ools?
[16:55] <smoser> i think if there is intent/support for making them 100% compatible, that would be wonderful.  It does put added development effort on either eucalyptus or ubuntu for maintaining that.
[16:56] <ttx> mdz: I don't think so.
[16:56] <nurmi_> mdz,erichammod: failure/fault format, and staying up-to-date with the latest EC2 functionality
[16:57] <ttx> mdz: should be filed as a bug against euca2ools and tagged uec/ec2-images
[16:58] <ttx> cjwatson: I'll think again about it and bother you again for guidance :)
[16:58] <ttx> [ACTION] ttx to file bug about providing ec2-* command names which call euca2ools
[16:58] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to file bug about providing ec2-* command names which call euca2ools
[16:58] <ttx> Anything else on the Eucalyptus bugs ?
[16:59] <ttx> Are all the bugs on the list reasonably assigned and targeted ?
[16:59] <nurmi_> there is an issue with dynamic block attach/detach that I think might be unassigned
[16:59] <ttx> nurmi_: I assigned it to kirkland
[16:59] <mdz> nurmi_, good reasons to consider it, though, such as having example commands and documentation work
[16:59] <ttx> nurmi_: sounds like a kvm-qemu regression
[17:00] <ttx> I'll assume no more comments from the crowd, then
[17:00] <ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap review: Virtual appliance
[17:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review: Virtual appliance
[17:00] <nurmi_> mdz: absolutely, I just want to mention those issues as things to consider before an evaluation is done
[17:00] <ttx> niemeyer and kirkland aren't around afaict
[17:01] <mdz> nurmi_, agreed
[17:01] <mdz> nurmi_, or rather, *while* the evaluation is done :-)
[17:01] <ttx> mdz: I'm slightly concerned about the state of this, as I haven't seen much progress since last week
[17:01] <mdz> ttx, kirkland is here at linuxcon, is there something I should check with him?
[17:01] <ttx> mdz: definitely. See my status email from end of last week and his activity report
[17:01] <nijaba> niemeyer is in vacation for the week
[17:02] <mdz> ttx, ok, I'll take an action
[17:02] <ttx> [ACTION] mdz to sync with kirkland on Virtual appliance status
[17:02] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to sync with kirkland on Virtual appliance status
[17:02] <ttx> I think the server-side is under control, with mathiaz pushing fixes from niemeyer
[17:02] <nurmi_> ttx,soren: one more euca issue, happy to discuss later time permitting
[17:03] <ttx> nurmi_: on #ubuntu-server just after the meeting ?
[17:03] <nurmi_> ttx,soren: regarding MANAGED mode instead of SYSTEM mode, is the transition on the table for beta?
[17:03] <nurmi_> ttx: sounds good :)
[17:03] <kirkland> mdz: ttx: i'm here now
[17:03] <soren> nurmi_: !??!? that was done weeks ago?
[17:03] <ttx> kirkland: yo :)
[17:03] <soren> nurmi_: Surely?
[17:03] <nurmi_> soren: really?
[17:03]  * nurmi_ eyes himself warily
[17:04] <ttx> kirkland: anything to add ? I think its more a question of objectives and priorities, right now, so discussing it with mdz should help ?
[17:04] <kirkland> ttx: right, sure, my appliance creation slowed last week, as I was helping test the ISOs and fix eucalyptus bugs
[17:05] <kirkland> ttx: i hit a few speed bumps creating the images, related to vmbuilder, and debconf
[17:05] <soren> nurmi_: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/eucalyptus/ubuntu/revision/542
[17:05] <kirkland> ttx: i have been pinged by several people in the community, saying that they have vm appliances and appliance builders that they would like us to consider
[17:06] <mdz> kirkland, what is your ETA for having a working appliance image we can test?
[17:06] <nurmi_> soren: the CC and NC eucalyptus.conf files on my alpha6 default install are both set to SYSTEM
[17:06] <soren> I'm not convinced using a completely different, unknown tool to create appliances is a stellar idea two days before betafreeze.
[17:07] <soren> nurmi_: What's in installer-cc.conf?
[17:07] <kirkland> mdz: if i fall back to "rebundling", perhaps this week; i don't really like that though, as its not very reproducible
[17:07] <mdz> kirkland, we need something this week
[17:07] <cjwatson> what's the problem with debconf?
[17:07] <kirkland> mdz: if we're trying to produce a "reference appliance", i'd think the process of creating the image is as important as the image itself
[17:08] <nurmi_> soren: ah, cool! I did not know about this
[17:08] <kirkland> cjwatson: couple of things, i'll poke you in -devel
[17:08] <ttx> cjwatson: the Moodle appliance kirkland was working on is asking a debconf "what is your FQDN" question that we have trouble to find a sane default for
[17:08] <soren> nurmi_: Good point about the NC, though.
[17:09] <cjwatson> oh, so not actually a debconf bug, a use-of-debconf problem
[17:09] <kirkland> ttx: it goes deeper than that
[17:09] <kirkland> cjwatson: right, use-of-debconf + preseeding (sort of) issue
[17:10] <ttx> ok, we should move on
[17:10] <nijaba> kirkland: can't this be set to some dummy value at build time, and then configured using a firstlogin script?
[17:10] <kirkland> nijaba: yes, that's what the first rev of my image did; requires the user login via ssh once
[17:10] <kirkland> nijaba: mdz asked me to try and avoid that
[17:11] <nijaba> ok
[17:11] <ttx> kirkland: mdz should sync with you to discuss what, when and priorities
[17:11] <ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap review: Other specs from the Roadmap
[17:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review: Other specs from the Roadmap
[17:11] <mdz> kirkland, the purpose of the reference appliance is to exercise UEC and the image store, more than the build tools
[17:12] <mdz> kirkland, we need to get to a fully reproducible build, but we don't need to start there, and it's blocking other work
[17:12] <ttx> anyone has anything to mention about the state of other specs from the Roadmap ?
[17:13]  * ttx tries to fit into 90 minutes
[17:13] <ttx> ok then
[17:13] <ttx> [TOPIC] Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs
[17:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs
[17:14] <ttx> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
[17:14] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
[17:14] <cjwatson> at this point I'm considering myself almost entirely done with the eucalyptus stuff that was assigned to me, with the exception of one or two more bugs
[17:14] <cjwatson> if this assumption breaks anyone, please let me know
[17:14] <ttx> No bugs assigned to the team...
[17:14] <nurmi_> cjwatson: we may need a few more bits in the init script to take into account /etc/eucalyptus/installer-cc.conf
[17:15] <mdz> we should probably omit wishlist bugs from that list unless they're targeted
[17:15] <ttx> Most of the bugs were covered in the previous lists...
[17:15] <ttx> mdz: who can change that ?
[17:16] <mdz> ttx, the QA team
[17:16] <cjwatson> nurmi_: I noticed somebody had changed eucalyptus.conf to source installer-cc.conf itself, so wouldn't that cover that?
[17:16] <ttx> [ACTION] ttx to poke QA team about omitting untargeted wishlist bugs from the buglist
[17:16] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to poke QA team about omitting untargeted wishlist bugs from the buglist
[17:16] <nurmi_> cjwatson: no, that file is read directly from the CC
[17:17] <nurmi_> cjwatson: at least, the networking parts are
[17:17] <ttx> anything in that list anyone feels uncomfortable with ?
[17:18] <mdz> ttx, so long as you're prodding the QA team, please ask them to add something to those pages which tell you who to contact about them :-)
[17:18] <mdz> smoser, you have one bug assigned to you which is New; please update the status
[17:18] <ttx> mdz: heh
[17:19] <ttx> Moving on to...
[17:19] <cjwatson> nurmi_: I think I must be missing something; but I was hoping that one of the server team could clear up loose ends there, since I'm not all that well-placed for detailed testing
[17:19] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review
[17:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review
[17:19] <mdz> ttx, soren's bug list is long, and you don't seem to have any. could you take some of his perhaps?
[17:19] <ttx> The list at http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html contains recently fixed bugs, if there is anything worth nominating in there, please shout now
[17:20] <nurmi_> cjwatson: sure, I was thinking that this was an init script issue
[17:20] <zul> ttx: not from me alot of those bugs pertain to karmic only
[17:20] <ttx> mdz: I will assign myself the autoregister I just filed
[17:20] <ttx> and see what I can pick to reduce soren's burden
[17:21] <ttx> zul: yes.
[17:21] <ttx> No nominations this week
[17:22] <cjwatson> nurmi_: happy to look at a bug if it's filed, I was just sounding a general reduced-availability warning
[17:23] <ttx> Accepted bugs with an assignee: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[17:24] <ttx> Is this is no longer current, please shout
[17:24] <zul> most of those are waiting to be accepted into *-porposed
[17:24] <ttx> zul: ok, good
[17:24] <mathiaz> zul: could we start to use bzr branches?
[17:24] <zul> mathiaz: yep
[17:24] <mathiaz> ttx: I was also think about involving sbeattie in the process
[17:25] <mathiaz> ttx: to do the bzr review (last step)
[17:25] <ttx> mathiaz: sure, good idea. You'll talk to him ?
[17:25] <mathiaz> ttx: yes.
[17:25] <ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to involve sbeattie in the Weekly SRU review process
[17:25] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to involve sbeattie in the Weekly SRU review process
[17:25] <ttx> mdz: want to talk about Server Team Bug Workflow today ?
[17:26] <ttx> or is it too late already ?
[17:26] <mdz> ttx, I am available
[17:26] <mdz> do you mean the things we've discussed by email or something new+
[17:26] <mdz> ?
[17:27] <ttx> mdz: no, there is an agenda item about that
[17:27] <ttx> "please delay this discussion until the next meeting attended by MattZimmerman"
[17:27] <mdz> ttx, let's follow up on that by email
[17:27] <ttx> ok
[17:27] <ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[17:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[17:28] <erichammond> mdz: I still don't have the ability to update importance on any ec2-images bugs.  For the time being, is there a person I can send recommended changes to?
[17:28] <zul> im probably going to ask a FFE for dovecot and samba any objections?
[17:28] <soren> Did you not become a member of bugcontrol?
[17:29] <erichammond> soren: I don't know how launchpad works, just that the Importance is not clickable for me.
[17:29] <mdz> erichammond, smoser for now
[17:29] <mdz> erichammond, who was helping you with joining bugcontrol? bdmurray?
[17:29] <erichammond> mdz: I'd have to look that up.  I got passed around a few times.
[17:30] <ttx> Eric isn't in bugcontrol yet.
[17:30] <mdz> ttx, I asked Marjo to help him get set up
[17:30] <ttx> ok.
[17:30] <ttx> zul:  samba requires FFE ?
[17:31] <zul> 3.4.1 is in debian testing
[17:31] <ttx> I thought its a bugfix release
[17:31] <zul> yer right it doesnt according to the changelog
[17:32] <ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[17:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[17:32] <ttx> same time, next week, same batchannel ?
[17:32] <ttx> I'll update the page to reflect the fact that our meeting now last 90 minutes
[17:32] <ttx> lasts, even
[17:33] <ttx> ?
[17:33] <soren> I'm going to start a discussion about the meeting time real soon.
[17:33] <soren> this time is absolutely horrible for me.
[17:34] <soren> ...and I have a hunch that other people in CET with families are in the same boat.
[17:34] <soren> So, look out for an e-mail on ubuntu-server@l.u.c.
[17:34] <ttx> soren: I don't see who you're talking about
[17:34] <soren> ttx: Sure you don't :)
[17:35] <soren> Can we go now, please?
[17:35] <soren> :)
[17:35] <ttx> #endmeeting
[17:35] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:35.
[17:35] <Daviey> thanks.
[17:35] <Daviey> soren: meeting starting at 5:00pm your local time?
[17:35] <soren> Daviey: It does.
[17:36] <soren> Daviey: And family dinner is 5:30 to 6:30-ish.
[17:36] <Daviey> ok :)
[17:40] <nurmi_> thanks all
[17:44] <alexm> thanks all, see you next week
[20:00]  * nhaines waves to jono.
[20:00] <keffie_jayx> hey all
[20:00] <nhaines> Hi, keffie_jayx.  :)
[20:01] <jono> hey nhaines
[20:01] <popey> o/
[20:01]  * fccf waves to jono, nhaines, and CaliforniaTeam
[20:01] <Grantbow_> greetings
[20:01] <JanC> hey all  ?
[20:01] <DarkwingDuck> Hey fccf
[20:01] <popey> Welcome to the LoCo Council meeting.. Agenda -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
[20:01] <dragon> Hey all
[20:01] <fccf> DarkwingDuck: nice new name DW
 Thanks fccf
[20:02] <popey> Are the .ca.us people about?
[20:02] <Flannel> popey: Yep
[20:02] <DarkwingDuck> popey: Yup
[20:02] <JanC> and (again) sorry for last week to everybody involved
[20:02] <nhaines> popey: yes.
[20:02] <fccf> Present and accounted for
[20:03] <Grantbow_> JanC: we're glad you're all here now :-)
[20:03] <popey> I believe the LoCo council have looked over your approval application already..
[20:03] <JanC> well, at least 3 of us are here (which is enough for quorum)
[20:03] <popey> am I right keffie_jayx  / JanC ?
[20:03] <keffie_jayx> yep
[20:03] <JanC> popey: me & keffie_jayx did
[20:04] <popey> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-california/+mugshots scary
[20:04] <popey> (in a good way)
[20:04] <popey> Can someone describe the structure of the team?
[20:04] <popey> Whats the team dynamic ?
[20:05] <Flannel> popey: What do you mean?  How we all get along? or...
[20:05] <popey> elevator pitch, what does the team do?
[20:05] <popey> assume I'd not read the wiki or launchpad :)
[20:06]  * popey wonders if he frightened everyone off
[20:06] <Flannel> We're dedicated to promoting Ubuntu in California.  We do a lot of community outreach and support.  We've been active for about two years now and have put on a variety of events.
[20:06] <popey> what kinds of community outreach things?
[20:07] <popey> handing out CDs, presentations?
[20:07] <Flannel> Events for a range of audiences, we participate and exhibit at exhibitions, we've done installfests, talked at local meetings of groups.
[20:07] <keffie_jayx> Flannel: have there been any transitioning in LoCo team Contacts or the founders are still around?
[20:07] <Flannel> keffie_jayx: I'm still around
[20:07] <popey> nice Flannel
[20:07] <keffie_jayx> :D
[20:07] <popey> What kinds of venues do you use for install fests?
[20:08] <Flannel> keffie_jayx: along with a number of people who have been with us from the beginning
[20:08] <Flannel> popey: Usually schools.  With the college system here, they're all over and we've had good luck getting rooms.
[20:09] <Flannel> For other events besides installfests too, bug jams, etc.
[20:09] <popey> excellent
[20:09] <fccf> The california team is a little interesting because (as you may or may not know) california is the #1 populated state in the US.. and we are spread out, so our actions are sometimes seen by one group and not another, so I may hand out 50 cd's in Fullerton and the people in L.A. didn't get any, or vise versa... .. Personally doing installfests (minifest) at my local starbucks ...
[20:09] <popey> seems like you have clusters of members in San Fran and lots on Santa Ana, do they work separately under one banner or is everything organised centrally?
[20:10] <popey> wow fccf, starbucks are open to that kind of thing are they?
[20:10] <fccf> popey: so long as I buy coffee, and not be too demanding on their network
[20:10] <Grantbow_> An example installfest we have worked with in San Jose is Evergreen College.  http://www.svlug.org/installfest/
[20:10] <popey> :)
[20:10] <Flannel> popey: We're all organized under one banner.  We had our first activities in the south (where our members were) and have been able to expand.  By sharing the experience and knowledge, it's allowed us to get other regions up to speed quickly
[20:10] <JanC> I think the "'Buntu Stand" CD-burning application sounds interesting, what exactly can it do?  might be useful for other locoteams...  ?
[20:11] <popey> ooo, I've been to svlug once, at Cisco
[20:11] <popey> Flannel: what's the main method of communication? mailing list, forums? irc?
[20:11] <Flannel> JanC: Yeah, once we finish it.  We've always designed it so that it can be used by everyone at conferences.
[20:12] <popey> Flannel: is that kinda freedom-toaster on a smaller scale?
[20:12] <nhaines> JanC: The idea is that you say you want x of a certain CD, and the software burns it on the machines that actually have that ISO.
[20:12] <Flannel> popey: Mailing list an IRC
[20:12] <nhaines> popey: Yes, very much like that, but more for facilitating mass burning.
[20:12] <Flannel> popey: freedom toaster on regular hardware.  It automates the CD burning process for use during ...well, anywhere you want to give them out
[20:12] <popey> right, sounds very neat, would love to see/hear more about that another time.
[20:13] <popey> What does the team do in terms of support of new users?
[20:13] <popey> or do you point people to the usual places, forums, answers, #ubuntu etc?
[20:13] <Flannel> For online support, if we can't help them in the channel we'll point them to #ubuntu
[20:13] <Flannel> But at a number of our installfests (and our talks) we've done support as well
[20:13] <popey> do you get many passers-by in your channel?
[20:14] <Grantbow_> popey: last night at www.sf-lug.org I fixed a LUG member's scanner by getting a firmware file installed.
[20:14] <popey> heh, excellent
[20:14]  * popey shakes a fist at scanners
[20:14] <Flannel> popey: Occassionally.  Most of the people who are transient actually come from elsewhere inthe world, oddly enough.
[20:14] <popey> yeah, we get that a lot in -uk
[20:14] <popey> something about English speaking channels with lots of people in I guess :)
[20:14] <popey> nice when they come back
[20:15] <popey> Well, I think I've heard enough
[20:15] <popey> any more questions keffie_jayx / JanC ?
[20:15] <fccf> I know that Flannel, nhaines, Grantbow, and myself (and others) spend countless hours supporting people in #ubuntu .. I personally try to convince people to switch over ( in the real world )
[20:15] <keffie_jayx> nope
[20:15] <keffie_jayx> I am ready to vote
[20:15]  * popey pokes JanC with the voting stick
[20:15] <JanC> popey: yes (about 'buntu stand), but not about their approval application  ;)
[20:16] <popey> ahh, ok :)
[20:16] <JanC> so +1 from me
[20:16] <Flannel> JanC: We'd be happy to talk afterwards
[20:16] <popey> Flannel: that would rock
[20:16] <popey> blog it :)
[20:16] <keffie_jayx> +1 from me and looking forward to more great work from this team a hope other follow
[20:16] <keffie_jayx> s/other/others
[20:16] <popey> Ok, given an excellent set of pages on the wiki, and what comes across as the right attitude for a LoCo team, it's +1 from me
[20:16] <popey> Congratulations, you're official :)
[20:17] <popey> It's just unfortunate you have to put up with jono in your state ;)
[20:17] <Grantbow_> \o/ thanks!
[20:17] <Flannel> Thanks popey, keffie_jayx, JanC.
[20:17] <czajkowski> Flannel: congrats!
[20:17] <dragon> popey. keffie_jayx, JanC: thanks! :)
[20:17] <fccf> TY LoCo Approval Team
[20:17] <popey> keep up the great work!
[20:17] <nhaines> Thank you very much for your endorsement.  :)
[20:17] <keffie_jayx> congrats
[20:18] <keffie_jayx> jono will treat beers
[20:18]  * keffie_jayx runs
[20:18] <popey> hehe
[20:18] <nhaines> haha
[20:18] <popey> ok, next item..
[20:18] <popey> hmm, kind of out of sequence
[20:18] <popey> oops
[20:18] <popey> We need more members since boredandblogging left the team
[20:19] <keffie_jayx> no problem popey california was waiting
[20:19] <dantalizing> congrats Flannel
[20:19] <popey> It's something we need to resolve promptly.. suggestions for a way forward keffie_jayx / JanC ? (and anyone else who has an opinion)
[20:20] <keffie_jayx> I suggest that each member of  the LoCO Council make a suggestion and that we reach out to ubuntu members for nominations "from the floor"
[20:20] <JanC> I think first of all we should ask locoteams to propose candidates  ?
[20:20] <keffie_jayx> that way we can get our opinion and the opinion of the ubuntu members
[20:21] <keffie_jayx> JanC: that is also sensible...
[20:21] <dantalizing> can we nominate boredandblogging ? ;)
[20:21] <czajkowski> heh
[20:21] <popey> heh
[20:21] <popey> well we already have at least 4 names on the mailing list suggested
[20:21] <popey> more would of course be welcomed
[20:21] <keffie_jayx> JanC:  your suggestion fits better since we are dealing with loco teams here
[20:22] <czajkowski> is it just one position that needs filling?
[20:22] <popey> So should we mail the loco mailing list and ask for volunteers
[20:22] <JanC> czajkowski: yes
[20:23] <keffie_jayx> popey: ok with the 4 names from the council it would do then?
[20:23] <Joeb454> damn, seems I missed the meeting :(
[20:23] <popey> well, we have enough names to have a sensible vote
[20:23] <keffie_jayx> should we propose these to the Community Council for their approval
[20:23] <keffie_jayx> or our word is enough?
[20:23] <popey> but I dont want us to exclude possible others as they may be as good or better than the suggestions we have made
[20:24] <keffie_jayx> popey: that's why JanC idea is great. it gives us extra input
[20:24] <popey> I think we should ask the loco mailing list for volunteers, and then craft a shortlist which we pass to the cc for approval
[20:24] <popey> yeah
[20:24] <keffie_jayx> popey: the list but the way is a bit too public imo
[20:24] <popey> we could ask people to mail the private list with their suggestions
[20:25] <popey> not the public one
[20:25]  * Joeb454 reads up on the subject
[20:25] <Joeb454> popey: isn't your private list subject to moderation though?
[20:25] <popey> yes
[20:25] <popey> but thats not a problem
[20:25] <JanC> I don't care about public/private list
[20:25] <keffie_jayx> ohhh ok
[20:25] <keffie_jayx> the LoCo Council list
[20:25] <keffie_jayx> fine
[20:25] <popey> yes
[20:25] <Grantbow_> what are those email list addresses?
[20:26] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
[20:26] <popey> thats the public loco contacts list
[20:26] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-council
[20:26] <keffie_jayx> I agree that we should encourage the contast to email us
[20:26] <Grantbow_> thanks
[20:26] <popey> thats the private loco council list
[20:26] <JanC> but AFAIK there is also no formal process defined about how to decide on new members?
[20:26] <popey> (our list)
[20:26] <keffie_jayx> popey: I understand now
[20:26] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation describes the process JanC
[20:27] <popey> "the Team Council sends the full list of nominees with comments and annotations to the CommunityCouncil (in the case of the MOTU Council also to the TB) "
[20:27] <Joeb454> so from what I've read, boredandblogging isn't on the loco council thus you're looking for a new person(s)?
[20:27] <popey> correct
[20:28] <Joeb454> :)
[20:29] <popey> so that page describes the process.. which in a nutshell.. we ask for volunters, or people to nominate others, those nominations are sent to loco-council, we ask those people to update their wiki pages, we send the list to the cc, they sort the vote out. Job done.
[20:29] <keffie_jayx> ok
[20:29] <keffie_jayx> the action
[20:29] <JanC> well, I guess people can propose candidates on both lists, then we'll have to contact them if they are available & check their credentials, and then send a report to the CC ?
[20:29] <popey> yup
[20:29] <popey> I'm happy to draft the mail to the loco contacts list
[20:29] <keffie_jayx> popey: when do we send the email, who sends it?
[20:30] <keffie_jayx> popey: great :D
[20:30] <JanC> popey: okay
[20:30] <popey> happy?
[20:30] <keffie_jayx> most happy
[20:30] <keffie_jayx> :D
[20:30] <popey> :)
[20:30]  * keffie_jayx can write the minute for this meeting then
[20:30] <popey> \o/
[20:30] <popey> not over yet :)
[20:30] <popey> we have some mailing list approve request tracker tickets to do
[20:30] <keffie_jayx> ok
[20:31] <keffie_jayx> with regards the email
[20:31] <popey> yup
[20:31] <keffie_jayx> when should we spect this to be sent and what is the deadline for submissions
[20:31] <popey> i can send a draft to loco-council tonight, then if you guys like it, send it to loco-contacts as soon as you say okay
[20:31] <keffie_jayx> ok
[20:31] <popey> I'd say no more than 2 weeks for nominations
[20:31] <popey> then pass to the cc
[20:32] <keffie_jayx> ok
[20:32] <czajkowski> give time for the CC to be elected
[20:32] <czajkowski> seeing as those elections are going on at present.
[20:32] <popey> that vote finishes on 6th oct iirc
[20:32] <czajkowski> yup
[20:32] <Joeb454> which is 2 weeks today
[20:32] <popey> winner
[20:33] <popey> the cc will take a while to whittle the list down anyway
[20:33] <keffie_jayx> popey: ok
[20:33] <popey> JanC: happy?
[20:33] <JanC> yep
[20:33] <Grantbow_> quite a few CC nominations in the vote, should be interesting.
[20:33] <popey> yeah.. *ahem*
[20:34] <keffie_jayx> alright alright
[20:34] <popey> ok, so I'll mail the council tonight, once you review the mail JanC / keffie_jayx, we send to loco-contacts, and promote it
[20:34] <keffie_jayx> great
[20:34] <keffie_jayx> the approvals for rt?
[20:35] <popey> yup
[20:36] <popey> Ok, Ubuntu-BH
[20:36] <JanC> anybody from Bahrain here?
[20:36] <popey> I see no team on launchpad for ubuntu-bh
[20:37] <popey> https://edge.launchpad.net/+search?field.text=Mohamed+ishaq&field.actions.search=Search
[20:37] <popey> the guy who made the ticket doesnt have an lp id either
[20:37] <JanC> they were only added to the agenda yesterday by jpds, maybe they didn't get a chance to prepare anything yet...
[20:37] <keffie_jayx> ok
[20:38] <JanC> popey: or under another name  ;)
[20:38] <keffie_jayx> we should contact them via email to get the story
[20:38] <popey> the request was made some time ago
[20:38] <popey>  #   Thu Jul 23 06:54:38 2009
[20:38] <popey> I would just reply to the ticket, asking if the list is still required, and what form the team is currently in
[20:38] <JanC> popey: yes, but, he was only refered to the loco council yesterday?
[20:39] <popey> JanC: doesn't matter really, if he made the request for a list 3 months ago, you'd expect _some_ presence on lp ?
[20:39] <keffie_jayx> JanC: well jpds was working on this recently
[20:39] <keffie_jayx> popey:  we should email them
[20:39] <keffie_jayx> I can do that
[20:40] <popey> hang on
[20:40] <keffie_jayx> ok
[20:40] <popey> look at ticket 7397
[20:40] <JanC> popey: not all teams before they start formally
[20:40] <popey> jorge already approved it
[20:40] <JanC> "use LP" somewhere in between there  ;)
[20:40] <popey> heh
[20:40] <popey> Tue Sep 01 15:50:02 2009   jorge - Correspondence added
[20:40] <popey> Approved!
[20:41] <keffie_jayx> ok
[20:41] <popey> so we just need to set ticket 7079 to approved
[20:41] <keffie_jayx> no need to talk about it then
[20:41] <popey> ya
[20:41] <JanC> pfff :P
[20:42] <popey> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=6632
[20:42] <popey> rtl
[20:42] <JanC> is this a locoteam ?
[20:42] <popey> not so much a loco list as a translators list
[20:42] <jpds> Dudes, you just say you approve the creation of the mailing list on the ticket.
[20:43] <popey> jpds: thats what I said
[20:43] <popey> jpds: but jorge already did for -bh
[20:43]  * jpds hugs popey.
[20:43]  * popey hugs jpds back
[20:44] <popey> not sure what we do about non-loco loco lists
[20:44] <keffie_jayx> jpds: is the left-to
[20:44]  * popey pokes jcastro 
[20:44] <JanC> I'm not sure if RTL is about translators or about technical things?
[20:44] <jpds> JanC: They are not locoteams, but they want lists so that they can start one.
[20:44] <keffie_jayx> right a loco team ?
[20:44] <popey> me neither
[20:44] <popey> i see no reason _not_ to approve it
[20:44] <keffie_jayx> jpds:  the left-to-right readers seems a language team
[20:44] <keffie_jayx> neihter do I
[20:45] <jpds> keffie_jayx: Yeah, I should of given that one to jcastro.
[20:45] <JanC> RTL sounds technical to me  ;)
[20:45] <keffie_jayx> but they belong to the translators coordinator
[20:45] <popey> sounds french to me
[20:45] <keffie_jayx> jpds: to david
[20:45] <keffie_jayx> planella?
[20:45] <popey> yeah, to david or jorge
[20:45] <popey> jpds: do you want to update that one?
[20:46] <jcastro> hi! what am I supposed to do?
[20:46]  * jpds assigns to Jorge.
[20:46] <popey> jcastro: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=6632
[20:46] <popey> its a "not really a loco list"
[20:47] <JanC> I think asking first about what they want to do might be useful  ?
[20:47] <popey> its a list to do with Right-To-Left language/locale support in Ubuntu
[20:47] <popey> JanC: sounds fair.. jcastro ?
[20:48] <jcastro> sounds fine to me
[20:48] <popey> "fine" as in "Approved!"
[20:48] <popey> ?
[20:48] <jcastro> yeah
[20:48] <jcastro> I'll update the ticket
[20:49] <popey> thanks jcastro, you can go back to your lair now.
[20:49] <jcastro> anything else piled up you guys want me to take care of just poke me
[20:49] <keffie_jayx> jcastro: caught any ghosts yet?
[20:50] <keffie_jayx> popey: the last tickets seems fine
[20:50] <popey> glad you get that keffie_jayx, it's in foreign to me :)
[20:50] <keffie_jayx> heh
[20:51] <keffie_jayx> it is for ivory coast
[20:51] <popey> ahhh
[20:51] <keffie_jayx> I did some background check and there is no team set up yet
[20:51] <keffie_jayx> well there is
[20:51] <keffie_jayx> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ci
[20:51] <keffie_jayx> but they don't have a mailing list
[20:51]  * keffie_jayx needs the directory :S
[20:51] <popey> heh
 <hint>
[20:52] <popey> seems okay to me
[20:52] <jpds> Yeah, that's owned by the guy in the ticket
[20:52] <JanC> the requester seems to be involved with SFD in his country too, so looks fine  ?
[20:52] <keffie_jayx> jpds: how do we approve
[20:52]  * keffie_jayx is longed in in rt as ubuntu
[20:52] <jpds> And judging by his second post, Jorge rejected his lists.l.n list.
[20:53] <jpds> keffie_jayx: Hmm, you should have your own account...
[20:53] <JanC> keffie_jayx: add a comment that it's approved and assign to anyone  ;)
[20:53] <keffie_jayx> jpds: I don't :S
[20:53] <popey> i have an rt account
[20:53] <keffie_jayx> yone?
[20:53] <popey> but my password is in a gpg signed file on another computer :S
[20:54] <popey> i can do it after the meeting
[20:54] <JanC> keffie_jayx: you have an account
[20:54] <keffie_jayx> JanC do I ?
[20:54] <popey> keffie_jayx: ping elmo to send you the password
[20:54] <JanC> you're in the list  ;)
[20:54] <popey> :)
[20:54] <JanC> I can approve
[20:54] <popey> keffie_jayx: I had this issue, I didnt know I had an account
[20:54] <JanC> -ci ?
[20:54] <popey> \o/ thanks JanC
[20:54] <popey> yes
[20:54] <keffie_jayx> ok
[20:54] <keffie_jayx> great then
[20:54] <keffie_jayx> popey: meeting adjouned then?
[20:55] <popey> looks good
[20:55] <popey> anything else JanC / keffie_jayx ?
[20:55] <keffie_jayx> next meeting is the 3rd tuesday
[20:55] <keffie_jayx> of october
[20:55] <keffie_jayx> past the GLobal Jam
[20:55] <popey> \o/
[20:55] <keffie_jayx> expectmy email later tonight
[20:56] <popey> typing it now :)
[20:56] <keffie_jayx> ok
[20:56] <keffie_jayx> great then
[20:56] <keffie_jayx> see you guys
[20:56] <keffie_jayx> thanks to all attendants
[20:56] <keffie_jayx> jpds you rock dude
[20:56] <nhaines> Thanks again for your time today.
[20:57] <jpds> Not really, I just do what I love.
[20:57] <keffie_jayx> jpds: are you a hall of famer?
[20:57] <keffie_jayx> well
[20:57] <keffie_jayx> gotta run
[20:58] <jpds> keffie_jayx: Nah, I operate behind the scenes. ;)
[20:58] <popey> thanks keffie_jayx / JanC
[20:59] <JanC> and thanks everyone else attending the meeting  ;)
[20:59] <Grantbow_> thanks for having us :)
[20:59] <dantalizing> ty all
[23:41] <lifeless> elky: https://lists.launchpad.net/subunit-dev/msg00033.html
[23:44] <elky> lifeless, good responses so far at least
[23:48] <lifeless> yes