=== a1g_ is now known as a1g === st33med is now known as ZzzZzzZzz-_- === swoody_ is now known as swoody === mrpouit is now known as mr_pouit === Vantrax is now known as matthewlye === matthewlye is now known as mattlye === mattlye is now known as matthewlye === matthewlye is now known as Vantrax === alsroot_ is now known as alsroot === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === asac_ is now known as asac [10:08] hi [10:10] zakame: morning [10:12] heya, just turning evening here :) [10:41] hello? [10:46] ZachK18: Hi [10:46] amachu, hello...are you one of the board members for the Asia and Oceania regional approval board meeting? [10:46] yes [10:46] well that's what i'm here for [10:50] some ten minutes to go [10:50] yeo [10:50] "yep [10:50] have you had a chance to "look me over? [10:57] * persia peers about [10:57] hello persia [10:58] hi [10:59] oh. i guess i wont start driving home just now. [10:59] persia: zakame: lifeless: elky: hi [10:59] i guess the other guy who wanted membership isn't gonna show up [11:00] Well, technically, there's a bit to go. [11:00] ZachK18, there's still a few minutes to wait, don't be like that :) [11:00] ah..ok....i've got nothing but time [11:00] * ZachK18 sits down, sips water......waits [11:00] Plus there only seems to be three of us yet. Usually we like to have at least four. [11:01] three who? board members? [11:01] Yes. [11:01] ah...got yo... [11:01] would any of you like to look over my wiki while we wait? [11:01] hello [11:02] There we go. quorum is achieved. [11:02] its been a while [11:02] lifeless: are you here? [11:02] a zakame! [11:02] hi [11:02] cool [11:03] ... [11:03] themuso is missing today.. [11:04] ah..i'm back [11:04] well, we begin now [11:04] Welcome persia, elky, lifeless & zakame [11:04] indus is n't here it seems [11:04] hi amachu , everyone [11:05] Good morning board members [11:05] well, morning for me anyway....five am [11:05] so, ZachK18, go ahead, presenting yourself & your contributions to Ubuntu [11:05] shall i just give my links? it's a fairly big list... [11:06] We'd like a two or three line intro. [11:06] We'll read your wiki page for the links. [11:06] Roger that. [11:07] Well first I'm Zach....I started using Ubuntu 100% four months ago...and since that time I post on the forums, use Irc freenode...and I'm currently documenting Firebird with apache2 and php5 on Ubuntu jaunty [11:09] had you been using linux/ubuntu long before you moved over completely? [11:10] Good question...no. My first encounter with Linux Ubuntu was when 8.04 very first came out. Tried it but because it was in beta or just released from beta stage...(didn't know that at the time) i quit using it. Then a year later here i am [11:12] Started using Ubuntu Jaunty slightly for curiousness and because I dislike MS to begin with the transition was Very Easy [11:13] ZachK18: are there people to support you? [11:14] Well I won't say because I wish not to put people on the spot but my master on the Ubuntu BT Padawan team is Tim_Sharrit and most of my "friends" are actually on the #ubuntu-beginners channel as we speak [11:15] Silver_Fox for example or lukjad007 [11:15] can you invite them here so we can hear them out :) [11:15] Sure ;) [11:15] ZachK18, we like to hear testimonials about prospective members. [11:15] cool [11:15] Hi? [11:15] lukjad007, thanks! [11:16] Sorry, what's going on exactly? I just saw the ping [11:16] lukjad007, how well do you know ZachK18? [11:17] lukjad007: and what would you say about his contributions [11:17] elky I've seen him around the #ubuntu-beginners and #ubuntu-doc channels for a couple of weeks at least. [11:17] lukjad007, what about him do you think makes him a good member candidate? [11:18] Silver_Fox_ Probably knows more about his contributions, to be honest. [11:19] Silver_Fox_? you here? [11:19] ZachK18, You seem to be active in several areas, proceeding through various processes (doc team contributor, beginner's team padawan). How do you feel these processes work, and do you feel like you're reaching a "next stage" in any of them? [11:19] yes zack18, i am typing [11:20] Well I definitely feel as though I'm reaching a "next stage" in those areas. [11:20] How I feel they work would be to lengthy to explain but I will try my best. [11:21] Though I have only known Zack18 for a short period, he has amazed me with the amount of time he spends in #ubuntu-beginners-help . He is friendly and welcomes new people who come across the beginners channel. [11:21] The documentation team exists for different purposes, mainly to document different areas of Ubuntu. Whether it's support, questions, or just editing the wiki [11:22] the doc team must be there for Ubuntu to succeed. without it, well, it just wouldn't be the same [11:23] Well, I think ZachK18 has made a good start, but i'm not yet satisfied with the level of significance. 0 from me. [11:24] The beginners team padawan is for the more experienced users of Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community to "take on" the younger users if you will, and show them the ropes perse...explain the proper ways to edit the wiki if they choose to go that route or proper use of the forums [11:24] ZachK18: how's your experience with your previous OS, and does it help you in your current experience with ubuntu? [11:27] ZachK18: You have a good start, but I would like to see more from you to give a +1 [11:27] I'm -1: not yet. I think there's great progress, but would like to see testimonials that didn't reference "a short time", and completion of some of the team integration processes underway. [11:27] Well my experience with Windows if very large. Especially in using Open Office(in place of MS word!) so the writing and documentation part comes very easy as I like to write so that experience helps. Supporting others with errors and bugs is also very easy as I can search many areas of the Web in a short amount of time...(that experience is needed due to MS bugs) [11:28] shall i list my wiki link? [11:28] cool, that's good to hear, and the further experience you have helps [11:29] amachu, lifeless, questions for ZachK18? [11:30] If the esteemed board would wish, here is my wiki page for evaluation. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zachk18 [11:30] elky: I am awaiting lifeless & zakame's vote [11:31] zakame: are you there? [11:31] & lifeless? [11:31] I would want to see some ZachK18 give some more time, he seems to be doing great work and I want him to succeed there [11:32] not to mention being a namesake :P [11:33] zakame: thanks. and i didn't see a reply from lifeless for the entire session. [11:33] is that a 0 zakame? [11:33] zakame, so that's 0 or -1? [11:34] a 0 [11:34] lifeless: ping? [11:34] Zack18: that would mean all of us feeling that you have a good beginning and would like to see more, for the membership [11:34] elky: didn't hear from since the beginning [11:34] i figured...i'm just an optimistic person by nature... [11:35] ZachK18: So we wish you all the best in future [11:35] well, thanks anyway [11:35] its not bad at all [11:35] keep up the good work. [11:35] If you wish to contact me i'll be around... === doko_ is now known as doko [11:35] ZachK18, Thanks for helping so far, and we'll look forward to seeing you back when you've a bit more documented. [11:35] any recommendations? [11:36] persia: elky: zakame: anything else to discuss here? [11:36] amachu, we are lacking our second applicant? [11:36] yes you are...he's not here... [11:36] elky: yes [11:36] ZachK18, Just keep doing what you are doing, get some testimonials on your wiki page demonstrating that more of your work is significant, and come visit again. [11:36] excellent, then i can drive home from work via food! :D [11:36] ZachK18: any immediate plans for your team participations? [11:37] So, for an overall score, what'd i get from all of you...0 to 10 [11:37] We don't do it that way. [11:37] We just do -1 to 1. [11:37] But it averages about -0.25, if I read the votes correctly. [11:37] well immediate plans....did any of you look at my documentation for Firebird? it's something that nobody, and i stress strongly nobody knows how to do [11:37] sorry elky got stuck in a GPL/LGPL/BSD licencing mail :( [11:38] lifeless, EWW! [11:38] lifeless: same old trap :-) [11:38] lifeless: lolwut [11:38] so, I'm with persia [11:38] lifeless: We has ZachK18 here today, all of us felt he need to improve upon. [11:39] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu-with-Firebird-Database [11:39] I concur [11:39] lifeless: we had 4 votes, so it's up to you if you want to read scrollback and throw your opinion in [11:39] ZachK18, It's a good start, but it's not yet complete :) [11:39] elky: actually, I'm starting it. I wrote infrastructure code as GPL. This was a mistake, now I have to convince the contributors to relicence. [11:39] lifeless: would you like to take some time, to give your feedback on ZachK18 [11:39] the firebird doc is something that no one in the community that i've talked to knows how to get working.. [11:40] amachu: I don't have anything additional; you've all said exactly what I would have [11:40] doing good stuff is great. [11:40] keep doing it! [11:40] lifeless, this sounds almost like something that may have been discussed in a pub roughly 3.5 weeks ago. [11:40] elky: its been brewing for a bit [11:41] elky: but its only accidentally connected to that post SLUG chat [11:41] lifeless: fine. anything else for any one to discuss? [11:41] lifeless, i look forward to hearing about this at the pub in .5 weeks then :) [11:41] persia: elky: zakame: ? [11:41] is that it then? [11:41] amachu, i think we're done amachu, thanks for chairing :) [11:41] elky: you should't let your ubuntu membership expire btw ;) [11:41] if that's it then i'm gonna head on over to #ubuntu-beginners-help [11:41] ZachK18: pretty good stuff, keep at it [11:42] lifeless, yes, and i should stick to my first answer when my boss says "do you want to be the business manager" [11:42] Board, I appreciate the time, suggestions, and consideration. Until our next meeting. [11:43] amachu, I'm set. [11:43] fine then. Thank you all for participating. [11:44] Next meeting will be on 13 Oct 09. Hope we get a new member to the Board in between that :-) [11:44] * ZachK18 waves to get amachu's attention...lol [11:44] thanks gents [11:45] don't worry about my determinations wanning guys...i'll still be here even if i never get membership [11:46] ZachK18, good to hear, and i hope to see you in several months time with a much bigger resume. [11:46] me too! hope i can do that [11:46] Thanks again [12:01] elky: https://lists.launchpad.net/subunit-dev/msg00033.html [12:01] soren: ^ === imlad|away is now known as imlad === fader|away is now known as fader_ [13:58] ogra, NCommander, GrueMaster, plars, njpatel, ian_brasil, dyfet, StevenK: meeting in 3 [13:58] or 2 rather [13:58] moo moo [13:58] * plars is here === imlad is now known as imlad|away [13:58] no bfiller, paulliu, bjf, davidm [13:59] * ian_brasil opens a sleepy eye [13:59] But I'm on leave ... ? [14:00] You apparently have to attend anyway [14:00] #startmeeting [14:00] Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is NCommander. [14:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [14:00] So it would seem [14:00] * JamieBennett is observing again [14:01] StevenK: You're welcome to join if you like :-) [14:01] [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090922 [14:01] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090922 [14:01] JamieBennett: Ah right didn't think of pinging you [14:01] [link] http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html [14:01] LINK received: http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html [14:01] lool: np [14:01] [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap [14:01] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap [14:02] * NCommander waits for a few more people to pop up alive [14:03] davidm and GrueMaster are at a conference so let's not wait for them [14:03] * GrueMaster is not alive until he gets coffee. [14:03] Just like bjf AFAIK [14:03] oh here he is [14:03] gruemaster: will davidm join? [14:03] I don't know. I'm at home, he's in a luxury hotel. [14:04] ah, softer beds [14:04] [topic] Action Item Review [14:04] New Topic: Action Item Review [14:05] ogra: much softer. [14:05] NCommander: Dont topic each of them; let's just go over them [14:05] ok [14:05] NCommander: you're first [14:05] My one action item was implemented my lool. Its pending upload. [14:05] *by [14:05] * NCommander is NOT awake yet [14:06] NCommander: Actually you're right that more work is required [14:06] NCommander: Such as libd-i and base-installer changes [14:06] dont think we need to do the ubiquity changes, especially for z0 [14:06] lool, flash-kernel will bee to be changed for the new platform [14:07] bssss .... mind the bees :) [14:07] if we want uImage creation to happen automaitcally [14:07] NCommander: Oh right; trivially though [14:07] lool, indeed [14:07] NCommander: so let's keep an action on this? [14:08] [action] complete dove z0 d-i support (NCommander) [14:08] [action] complete dove z0 d-i support (NCommander) [14:08] ACTION received: complete dove z0 d-i support (NCommander) [14:08] dyfet: Around? [14:08] AFAICS the lubuntu stuff is still in lala land [14:08] He's also at the conference. [14:08] seed in junk [14:08] oh, soft beds as well [14:09] ubiquity was dropped from desktop [14:09] ++ [14:09] already a good move [14:09] [action] move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable the meta on amd64 (dyfet) [14:09] NCommander: ^ [14:09] [action] move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable the meta on amd64 (dyfet) [14:09] ACTION received: move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable the meta on amd64 (dyfet) [14:09] I wonder what mysql is doing in the lubuntu live seed though [14:10] probably I dont need to know [14:10] serving SQL :) [14:10] * NCommander pokes plars [14:10] NCommander: I'm next I think [14:10] NCommander: Pleaes co lool to setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here [14:10] [action] setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here (lool, c/o) [14:10] my turn now? [14:11] paulliu isn't around [14:11] [action] setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here (lool, c/o) [14:11] [action] setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here (lool, c/o) [14:11] ACTION received: setup meeting with ubuntu-moblin and report back here (lool, c/o) [14:11] NCommander: co paulliu's [14:11] I haven't had a chance to talk to the QA team about it and see if they have any advice to offer, but I'd like to go ahead and let those on the team look at the proposed changes and see what you think. [14:11] * NCommander should just chair lool if he's going to give me copy/paste lines [14:11] [action] file question against soyuz on PPA size (paulliu, c/o) [14:11] [action] c/o pauliu's specs [14:11] ACTION received: c/o pauliu's specs [14:11] (I'm trying to speed things up; I'm busy :-) [14:11] NCommander, that would be to easy ... we couldnt blame you [14:11] you done now? :) [14:12] plars: URL? [14:12] [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/BugWorkflow [14:12] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/BugWorkflow [14:12] plars: High level remark: we should try avoiding organisation for the mobile team [14:12] A description of the proposed changes are in a grey box at the bottom of the page. In essence, the goal is to try to help focus attention on important bugs, while trying to keep the bug spam volume low for those on the team [14:13] lool: ? [14:13] even if the canonical mobile team is driving this effort and we have some specific things assigned to this team, it's best if we can keep things related to UNR moblin and armel separate from the canonical-mobile concept if you see what I mean [14:13] lool: ah, right [14:13] lool: you mentioned that last time, and then said to leave it [14:13] lool: it can be easily split [14:14] pff I suck [14:14] human-netbook-theme > we still use that?? [14:14] I dont think so it's in universe [14:14] same for netbook-config > not in ubuntu [14:14] write a MIOR so it matches the wiki again :P [14:14] *MIR [14:14] plars: humanity-icon-theme [14:14] so I'm interested in feedback as to whether those (especially those on ~ubuntu-unr) believe this is a good change, or if they would just end up subscribing to the -qa team anyway so as to see everything [14:15] human-netbook-theme already had an MIR, and already got approved, so it can just move back again [14:15] lool: will correct, that's old [14:15] StevenK, i wasnt serious you know :) [14:15] lool: that's not in the changes :) [14:15] plars: Should we integrate with the new bug reporting guidelines? [14:15] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs etc. [14:15] or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage [14:16] lool: I can look at that, and those are good suggestions, but specifically I'm looking for feedback on the changes wrt our team at the bottom of the page [14:16] lool, 90% of the bugs i file dont work with the new guidelines anyway [14:16] plars: So what I mentionned about the ubuntu-unr tag is that it might make sense to stop keeping it to mean specific to unr [14:17] i rarely file from the system i see the bug on [14:17] plars: I mean, if we get too many bugs filed from UNR as is increasingly the case, it's not scaling up well [14:17] * NCommander hates the new bug guidelines with a passion [14:17] lool: yeah, maybe it could mean that it was just filed from a system that happened to be running unr? [14:17] plars: So for ubuntu-unr/armel tags, we could have "this is specific to environment foo" tags which we add explicitely [14:17] ogra, you could technically collect a bug report, SCP it over, and then ubuntu-bug it [14:17] plars: e.g. unr-specific and armel-specific [14:17] plars: Yeah [14:17] plars: But we only need to change the meaning when we're flooded [14:18] Not the case for armel for instance [14:18] NCommander, sure, i can also grow grass on my knee if i try hard enough [14:18] * plars directs lool to #3 on the section at the bottom of the page [14:18] tehoretically [14:18] * plars points both hands to the section at the bottom of the page where the proposed changes are [14:18] plars: Oh I thought you wanted us to review the full page not the bottom changes; apologies [14:18] :) [14:19] ogra: there's a way around that if you have a .crash file, even on a system where you can't get network access [14:19] plars: The changes look fine [14:19] plars, i know, but many of my reports neither use or need .crash files on armel [14:19] ogra: but yeah, clearly some bugs *have* to be filed manually - we just want to encourage people to use apport if at all possible [14:19] plars, I note for the record the *vast* majority of stuff I file == no crash [14:19] plars: We need to cover the priority setting/milestoning actions too [14:20] lool: correct [14:20] ++ [14:20] ++ [14:20] and tatoo them on NCommanders forehead :P [14:20] -- [14:20] Win! [14:20] and that's a point I'm somewhat fuzzy on... especially since lp doesn't have a separate notion of priority vs. importance [14:20] along poiuytrewq? [14:20] I'll help fund the tattoo [14:20] the two are not always synonymous [14:21] lool, indeed [14:21] plars: moblin tag > yeah please file a bug on this [14:21] Not sure where I'd add it but that's easy [14:22] perhaps just moblin [14:22] lool: seems sensible since that's where we have everything else for moblin [14:22] one other outstanding question I have - do we want to just do this for UNR, or for armel as well? [14:22] Sorry I mean the tag name would be "moblin" not ubuntu-moblin [14:22] in armel, the bug volume is currently much lower [14:22] plars: The -qa? [14:23] I think it only makes sense for unr [14:23] lool: yes [14:23] it might be needed for armel but dealing with multiple teams etc. is painful so if we can avoid it... [14:23] I'd like to defer it for armel unless someone has an objection to that [14:23] so, just do it for unr for now, see how it goes [14:24] plars: I confirmed with design team that assigning ~canonical-ux is the right escalation path [14:24] lool: cool, and they want assigned, not just subscribed? [14:24] plars, lool, what AR/Minutes do we take away from then? [14:24] I know some teams are picky about that [14:24] assigned means they have to comment or fix so I think it's the right thing to do [14:24] they were fine with assignments [14:24] ok [14:25] NCommander: ? === porthose is now known as porthose|afk [14:25] lool, I'm trying to figure out how to summarize plars down into a one line summary for the minutes [14:25] er, *ahem* [14:25] Haha [14:25] plars's bug triage notes [14:26] plars in one line. [14:26] [agreed] Approve update from plars on bug triaging guidelines [14:26] NCommander: basically the bug workflow is just being tweaked [14:26] You can shorten plars to 5 chars [14:27] [action] plars to update the bug workflow [14:27] ACTION received: plars to update the bug workflow [14:27] [topic] UMR Status [14:27] New Topic: UMR Status [14:27] bfiller: Hey [14:27] lool: hello [14:27] bfiller: Sorry didn't setup a meeting about moblin this week [14:28] I think we should try to chat next weel [14:28] Biggest update is TMC stuff [14:28] Was blocking further progress to karmic [14:28] paulliu confirmed to me earlier that this was all working for him now [14:28] bfiller: One big question is whether we could use 2.1 components or not? [14:28] bfiller: The TMC updates will land in 2.1 but we could carry them on top of 2.0 [14:29] lool: would be great to get 2.1 components in, but they are not available yet [14:29] overall, moblin status is improving but images are still failing to build [14:29] bfiller: So no objection to use them; that's fine [14:29] I under paulliu will merge latest empathy bits and we should be able to build images again [14:29] lool: it is a requirement we use 2.1 for next OEM image [14:29] bfiller: Cool that's aligned then === imlad|away is now known as imlad [14:30] The other topic which made no progress is compliance work, at least on my side [14:30] GrueMaster: anything your side? [14:30] lool: there are 3 things I'd like to add [14:30] We had a teleconference with Intel last week. [14:30] Waiting for them to finalize 1.0 spec. [14:31] GrueMaster: Right but I think we want to start setting up daily runs and raise issues with the test tools [14:31] I plan on discussing compliance with the LinuxFoundation today or tomorrow at the conference. [14:31] GrueMaster, what's the timefame on them finalizing 1.0? [14:31] bfiller: Please dump them here any time [14:31] NCommander: they don't know [14:31] bfiller: I've seen you assigned some bugs; thanks [14:31] lool: 1) there are many packages in Karmic PPA that are old or need version bumps, so these need to be assigned to people [14:31] oem folks are doing some, pauliu will need to help as well [14:32] lool: daily runs would be a lot of work, considering the test suite takes ~26 hours to run. [14:32] bfiller: Yes, top priority was to move new packages to karmic; I'd like to use a tracker for the PPA -> karmic merges apart of that [14:32] Unless I pare it down. [14:32] And that doesn't include manual tests. [14:32] GrueMaster: well continuous runs then; perhaps we should bring it up that 26 hours is too long? [14:32] 2) I have triaged some bugs and added some new ones, we really need to address https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-moblin-remix/+bug/434243 soon I think to have stability in the package versions [14:32] Launchpad bug 434243 in ubuntu-moblin-remix "configure apt_preferences to use PPA for moblin build" [High,Triaged] [14:32] lool: we had previously talked about this [14:33] bfiller: Yes [14:33] bfiller: I didnt have time to look into this [14:33] lool: agreed about that tracker [14:33] The other issue with compliance is library versions. We apparently have some newer clutter libs than moblin.org. [14:33] bfiller: I can explain where the file needs to be created and where the format is documented but didn't have time to verify things work as intended [14:33] lool: I assigned the apt bug to StevenK, not sure if he is the right person 0r not [14:33] bfiller: he probably is except he's on leave for a week [14:34] I didn't see that bug? [14:34] Oh, that bug [14:34] GrueMaster: So did you report these upstream> [14:34] Yes, that's a livecd-rootfs issue. Patches welcome [14:34] This was brought up in the phone meeting. [14:34] GrueMaster: I think we need to push more stuff in the intel bug tracker [14:35] lool, bfiller five minute warning [14:35] It already has been reported. It is a spec compliance issue. [14:35] Hard to be compliant to a spec that isn't finalized. [14:35] GrueMaster: From my perspective, you're owning the moblin compliance stuff and I'd love you to drive the issues you raised here or on the phone call upstream [14:35] lool: can you assign someone else on your team to look at 434243 while steven is goine? [14:35] bfiller: The only other person would be me; unless someone here would like to step up? [14:36] ogra, dyfet, or anybody ^ [14:36] Hm. It isn't hard to fix for the live system [14:36] lool: I am already driving it, along with davidm. [14:36] StevenK: do you have cycles to get it done before you leave? [14:36] how about NCommander :)? [14:36] lool, my plate is full ... but if there is nop other one ... [14:36] bfiller: I left two days ago :-P [14:36] StevenK: rats [14:36] bfiller, what's a spare cycle? [14:36] GrueMaster: Well we might have to tell them that we have version foo of the while spec says we need version foobar and that needs to be fixed in the spec [14:36] bfiller: I'm not back until next Monday the 28th [14:37] The bug isn't that the spec isn't at 1.0 but rather that the current spec says we're incompatible [14:37] bfiller, NCommander doesnt sleep, he should have extra cycles :P [14:37] three minute warning [14:37] lool: we know this. they know this. [14:37] NCommander: enought time to fix 434243 :) [14:37] ogra, *sigh* thats more true than you realize [14:37] GrueMaster: So you're saying it's reported? [14:37] YES [14:37] GrueMaster: OKAY [14:37] NCommander: bang it out [14:37] GrueMaster: What about the other bits? [14:37] Whish is why davidm and I are taking it up with the linux foundation while at the conference. [14:38] s/whish/which [14:38]