[00:04] <seb128> slangasek, hum, assigning the bug to robert is a weird reply to my question ;-)
[00:04] <slangasek> seb128: uh... it was a reply to rickspencer sitting next to me and telling me to do that :)
[00:04] <slangasek> not sure I saw the question
[00:04] <seb128> oh ok
[00:04] <seb128> slangasek, I asked what you suggest changing
[00:05] <seb128> to be honest I don't think that's the higher priority we have with gdm now too
[00:05] <seb128> but I will not start discussing settings there ;-)
[00:05] <slangasek> seb128: my initial suggestion to Rick was:  put an inactive 'login' button in the lower right-hand corner, so that the "default" button position is occupied by something safe
[00:06] <slangasek> seb128: alternatively, don't highlight the first user in the list
[00:06] <slangasek> seb128: I'm not arguing it's the highest priority... I do think it's something that significantly impacts usability and should be fixed before release
[00:07] <seb128> you are concern by people clicking on shutdown by mistake?
[00:07] <slangasek> seb128: I have done it *repeatedly*
[00:07] <slangasek> so yes, it concerns me :)
[00:07] <seb128> hum, ok ;-)
[00:07] <seb128> you are the first one to mention that but one is enough
[00:08] <seb128> adding an unactive button seems fine to me
[00:08] <slangasek> seb128: sorry, it's a bug I should have filed a long time ago, but every time I run into it, my reboot takes long enough that I forget about it by the time I get to my browser ;-)
[00:08] <seb128> just curious, I don't want to shutdown my box now, but it doesn't ask you before shuting down the box?
[00:08] <slangasek> nope!
[00:08] <seb128> that would be an another bug
[00:20] <james_w> oh, and that's reminded me of one I found last night
[00:20] <james_w> something just changed on my system so that hitting the power button shuts down with no prompt
[00:47] <Keybuk> superm1: around?
[00:50] <ion> keybuk: o hai
[00:50] <Keybuk> hello
[00:51] <ion> I rebased the mountall patches against 0.1.6 a few days ago for easy applying. :-)
[00:51] <Keybuk> if you put them in bzr, it would be even easier
[01:10] <NCommander> doko, it looks like migrating silo to GCC 4.4 broke it
[01:10] <NCommander> doko, my SPARC won't boot with the newer SILO binary, I'll continue to debug but :-/
[01:12] <NCommander> doko, (I also have confirmation of it occuring on another persons machine, same extact issue)
[02:28] <ScottK> NCommander: gcc-4.3 is still in Main ....
[02:56] <lifeless> anyone in ubuntu-release around? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bicyclerepair/+bug/434991
[03:09] <Darxus> There's a bicyclerepair package??
[03:15] <ScottK> It's unlikely to be what you are guessing it is.
[03:19] <[reed]> Darxus: http://bicyclerepair.sourceforge.net/
[03:19] <Darxus> I checked aptitude show bicyclerepair.
[03:20] <Darxus> So any opinions on removing azureus's popup that asks for money?  It's GPLed.
[03:20] <ScottK> Remove it.
[03:21] <Darxus> ScottK: Remove the popup?
[03:22] <ScottK> Yes.
[03:22] <Darxus> Excellent, thanks.
[03:22] <Darxus> (I realize this won't make karmic.)
[03:23] <ScottK> Why not?
[03:23] <ScottK> Sounds like a bug fix to me.
[03:24] <Darxus> ScottK: And you believe it will be accepted into universe?
[03:24] <ScottK> Yep.
[03:24] <Darxus> Thanks.
[03:31] <Darxus> Looks like I can just insert a return() at the top of checkForDonationPopup() in azureus2/org/gudy/azureus2/ui/swt/donations/DonationWindow.java
[03:31] <Darxus> Wonder what this thing is like to build :/
[03:31] <glick> hey has anyone here used MPC as a build system?
[03:35] <glick> or Scons or cmake?
[03:36] <TheMuso> dtchen: Do you have any more pulse stuff lined up, or should I go ahead and push your changes?
[03:40] <Darxus> That azureus stuff was intended for -motd.
[03:59] <mase_wk> Hi guys, I have to make some kernel packages which need to be deployed for use on Xen guests using the latest kernel from kernel.org. Where is the best place to learn to package this ?
[04:41] <LLStarks> ArneGoetje
[04:41] <LLStarks> you there?
[04:43] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: yep
[04:43] <LLStarks> about the ttf-tahoma bug
[04:43] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: yes
[04:43] <LLStarks> you said that ubuntu tries to accommodate everyone
[04:43] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: no.
[04:44] <LLStarks> but as i just commented, the current behavior is a regression
[04:44] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: I said, we try to provide sensible default settings that work for most users.
[04:44] <LLStarks> that default has been ruined in karmic
[04:44] <LLStarks> it was fine in jaunty.
[04:45] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: therefor it's not a regression. And hinting issues are definetely user specific configuration issues.
[04:45] <LLStarks> this is a fresh install
[04:45] <LLStarks> with upgrades
[04:45] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: the hinting settings were the same in Jaunty
[04:45] <LLStarks> bad rendering is replicated on other hardware
[04:46] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: whether you prefer slight, medium or full hinting is your personal preference
[04:46] <LLStarks> it's only on certain sites
[04:46] <LLStarks> i don't want system-wide changes
[04:47] <LLStarks> you saw my attachment, right?
[04:47] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: you are talking about websites, right?
[04:47] <LLStarks> yes
[04:48] <LLStarks> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32285454/wrong.png
[04:48] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: if the same website renders differently on a fresh Jaunty and fresh Karmic with the exact same fontconfig configuration in /etc/fonts/conf.d/, then it's a bug in firefox.
[04:49] <LLStarks> if that was the case, then firefox 3.0 wouldn't be affected.
[04:49] <LLStarks> but it is
[04:50] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: IIRC there had been changes to the rendering settings in firefox3.0
[04:50] <LLStarks> chromium and opera are affected
[04:51] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: can you replicate the same behavior in other applications, like gedit?
[04:51] <LLStarks> no. only websites afaik.
[04:51] <LLStarks> across many browsers
[04:52] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: then it's an issue with those browsers, IMHO
[04:52] <LLStarks> or this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine1.2/+bug/412195/comments/27
[04:53] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: no, it's definetely not a font issue, if the same font is rendered fine in other applications.
[04:56] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: you said yourself, that only browsers are affected...
[04:56] <LLStarks> afaik
[04:56] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: does it happen only with some websites, or are all websites which use Tahoma affected?
[04:57] <LLStarks> i'm not sure.
[04:57] <LLStarks> only some websites though
[04:57] <LLStarks> not sure about tahoma
[04:57] <LLStarks> view source doesn't list fonts.
[04:58] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: you can test by creating a custom HTML file, set the font to use explicitely and lod it into the browser to see if you can reproduce the issue.
[04:59] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: if you are not sure that it's because of Tahoma, how come you insist on that bug report?
[04:59] <LLStarks> i honestly don't know. what i do know is that fixing this issue made things worse for certain sites.
[05:00] <LLStarks> it's ugly.
[05:01] <LLStarks> yes, calling tahoma produces the error.
[05:01] <LLStarks> just tested.
[05:01] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: LLStarks does it also happen in other non-browser applications?
[05:02] <LLStarks> how could i test that?
[05:02] <LLStarks> one sec.
[05:02] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: open gedit, set the font to Tahoma and type some text
[05:04] <LLStarks> lemme screenshot
[05:05] <LLStarks> arne. http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6543/tahomatest.png
[05:05]  * ArneGoetje is looking
[05:06] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: where is the error?
[05:06] <LLStarks> it looks fine there. but it strains my eyes in the browser.
[05:06] <LLStarks> it's as if the wrong font is being called.
[05:07] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: then the rendering in the browser and in gedit are different. can you try to open the file in oowriter?
[05:09] <LLStarks> http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3212/test2l.png
[05:09] <LLStarks> a font shouldn't look that bad at size 10
[05:12] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: if you go to System->Preferences->Appearance->Fonts and click on Details..., what settings do you have there?
[05:12] <LLStarks> subpixel, slight, rgb
[05:12] <LLStarks> default.
[05:13] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: ok, can you please post the output of 'ls /etc/fonts/conf.d/' into a pastebin?
[05:14] <LLStarks> http://pastebin.com/m6e479aac
[05:16] <LLStarks> is it possible my home partition is interfering?
[05:16] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: ok, please paste the output of 'fc-match -v Tahoma' into a pastebin
[05:16] <Benja> alguien que able español
[05:16] <Benja> por favor
[05:16] <LLStarks> http://pastebin.com/m3ddf65c9
[05:17] <mase_wk> Benja: #ubuntu-es might help
[05:18] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: please try the following: sudo ln -s /etc/fonts/conf.avail/10-autohint.conf /etc/fonts/conf.d/ and then compare again
[05:19] <LLStarks> compare what?
[05:19] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: how it looks
[05:19]  * mase_wk sighs
[05:19] <Benja> alguien que able español
[05:19] <Benja> por fa
[05:20] <mase_wk> Benja: no ables español. #ubuntu-es
[05:20] <Benja>  :|
[05:20] <Benja> vaya sos mujer
[05:20] <LLStarks> looks more or less the same
[05:21] <Benja> que coño
[05:21] <Benja> decis
[05:21] <LLStarks> arnegoetje. it's not exclusively tahoma.
[05:22] <LLStarks> can i pm you a picture to better demonstrate.
[05:22] <ArneGoetje> LLStarks: sure
[05:23] <mase_wk> Benja: Sea cortés. Hay un canal español dedicado
[05:23] <glick> hey can anyone recommend any good cmake tutorials/resources?
[05:23] <glick> im having a hard time finding anything decent online
[05:23] <mase_wk> glick: can you let me know if you find one  :)
[05:24] <maco> the cmake book?
[05:24] <mase_wk> i think he said good :)
[05:24] <glick> grrr its so frustrating that there is not good documentation on this popular tool
[05:25] <mase_wk> glick: i sat down to try and learn it but got nowhere in an hour
[05:25] <lifeless> its not that popular ;)
[05:25] <mase_wk> it is less popular than it should be.
[05:25] <glick> i guess they dont want people to use their stuff
[05:25] <lifeless> I think its about as popular as it should be :)
[05:25] <mase_wk> the kde guys make good use of it
[05:26] <mase_wk> lifeless: do you know of a better tool?
[05:28] <glick> i guess they purposefully have crappy documentation cause they want you to buy courses from them on how to use it
[05:30] <glick> guess ill fiddle around with it for another half hour, then i have to read for class :(
[05:33] <glick> has anyone here heard of the MPC build system?
[05:34] <dyek2> Hi! Is there a way to assemble an URL from sources.list and web sites specified by the URLs contained within it? Lets say I found in Packages.gz that udev package Filename is: pool/main/u/udev/udev_141-1_i386.deb. What is the exact URL to this package so that I can use wget to fetch it?
[06:19] <dholbach> good morning
[06:37] <dholbach> ArneGoetje: do you think you could take a look at bug 434054?
[06:38] <dholbach> also I'm not sure if I understand bug 434176 correctly... is it good enough to replace ttf-bitstream-vera with ttf-dejavu?
[06:38] <dholbach> (replace it as a depends)
[06:44] <dholbach> asac: if you could take a look at bug 424727 at some stage, that'd be great
[06:51] <ScottK> Looks like something crashing in Soyuz.  It's been a coupld of hourse since any newly uploaded build started....
[06:53] <dholbach> hum... there's just a OOo build that's been running for 2 days on armel
[06:53] <wrapster> what type of package should ss12 be ? (single binary, multiple binary, library, kernel module or cdbs?)
[06:54] <wrapster> im trying to build it ..so can you please help
[06:55] <ScottK> dholbach: Yes and look how many builds are waiting.
[06:56] <ScottK> wrapster: If you are working on a package you hope to eventually get into Ubuntu, #ubuntu-motu is a better channel to ask packaging questions.
[06:56] <wrapster> scottk
[06:56] <wrapster> ok thanks
[06:57] <dholbach> what does "failed to upload" mean in LP speak?
[06:59] <porthose> ScottK, would you set bug #435015 to won't fix?  It sounds like the reporter is describing the expected behavior of python2.6.  I asked in #ubuntu-bugs and they sent me here :)
[06:59] <ScottK> porthose: I don't think they are.
[07:00] <porthose> ok ty
[07:00] <ScottK> The point of moving packaged stuff to dist-packages was so that unpackaged stuff could use site-packages without conflict.
[07:00] <lool> Did someone raise this to IS already?
[07:00] <ScottK> lool: Not that I know of
[07:01] <ScottK> porthose: I'm sure doko_ will look at it and give us the answer at some point.
[07:02] <porthose> I'm sure he will so I will leave it for him :)
[07:02] <lool> ScottK: sample package?
[07:02] <lool> I checked pango1.0 and libgnome uploaded overnight and they were fine
[07:03] <ScottK> lool: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/quassel/0.5.0~rc1+vcshead090922-0ubuntu1
[07:03] <lool> thanks
[07:03] <ScottK> That was upload an hour ago.
[07:05] <lool> So I raised the /builders beings idle with builds in queue and quassel not starting anywhere
[07:06] <lool> probably the daemon process on the buildds hung again
[07:06] <lool> ScottK: The high number of builds on i386 might be a mass archive rebuild in some special archive
[07:06] <lool> I dont remember its URL but there's a rebuild of ubuntu going on since some days
[07:07] <ScottK> lool: Yes, that's on the PPA buildds.
[07:07] <ScottK> But they should run only when no regular PPA builds are waiting.
[07:08] <ScottK> No idea why the distro buildds would be stuck
[07:08] <pitti> Good morning
[07:27] <glick> excuse me, is anyone here familier with cmake?
[07:28] <glick> i have a structure question
[07:28] <lifeless> #cmake
[07:28] <glick> yeah no one is there thats awake
[07:28] <jussi01> glick: you might be better asking in #kubuntu-devel or #cmake
[07:29] <glick> thanks
[07:58] <ArneGoetje> dholbach: what is missing on bug 434176?
[08:04] <soreau> What would be the best way to check whether or not a given package is installed from a script?
[08:05] <liw> soreau, by querying dpkg I guess
[08:11] <soreau> liw: dpkg I just shows dpkg: need an action option
[08:17] <ArneGoetje> dholbach: bug 434054 looks also good to me...
[08:17] <glick> hey the include_directories() option in cmake, is that just for header files or for implementation files as well?
[08:25] <liw> soreau, the manpage should give you the options you need, depending on what you need to do
[08:26] <dholbach> ArneGoetje: I was more wondering if dejavu was a drop-in replacement of vera-bitstream
[08:27] <dholbach> or if there was anything else required
[08:27] <soreau> liw: I read the dpkg man page and not really coming up with anything useful. The best I can come up with is maybe dpkg -l|grep <package>|grep ii
[08:27] <soreau> liw: I would like to know the syntax to use 'I' though
[08:29] <liw> soreau, have you looked at --status ?
[08:29] <lool> soreau: dpkg -l <package> | grep ^ii; or if you want to be more robust use dpkg-query -s <package> and look for "Status:"
[08:32] <soreau> liw: Well that works to but I guess I was just looking for a 'cleaner' way of doing it. Can you tell me what you were talking about with your original suggestion dpkg I? I could get that to work at all
[08:32] <liw> soreau, er, what?
[08:33] <soreau> [01:25:28] <liw> soreau, by querying dpkg I guess <- how do I do that
[08:34] <liw> soreau, I am not understanding your confusion
[08:35] <liw> soreau, you just told me that running dpkg --status works for you, what is the problem?
[08:35] <soreau> liw: Well I remember one time someone showed me a dpkg command to list all installed packages with no additional info. Just a list of strictly package names
[08:35] <soreau> But I can't figure out for the life of me what it was
[08:36] <ArneGoetje> dholbach: dejavu is based on bitstream vera with greater coverage, so yes, it is a drop-in replacement
[08:36] <soreau> Now I am wishing I had made a note of it
[08:36] <dholbach> ArneGoetje: so no changes are necessary - the font will just be "picked up"?
[08:37] <soreau> liw: I found it now.. it was --get-selections
[08:37] <soreau> liw: Thanks for your help
[08:38] <ArneGoetje> dholbach: that, I don't know. It depends on if the application explicitely queries the font file or not. It should not do that of course...
[08:38] <dholbach> hrm
[08:40] <ArneGoetje> dholbach: but if it's only about the metrics, it should work
[08:42] <doko_> ScottK: hmm, please ask pitti or somebody who merged cdbs
[08:59] <dholbach> pitti: regarding bug 431823 (freeflying pinged me about the patch of lidaobing): do we still need pre-depends of some kind?
[09:00] <cdE|Woozy> is the patch from bug 372874 going to be included in karmic?
[09:02] <pitti> james_w: I just noticed bzr bd during fetching orig tarball:
[09:02] <pitti> tar -xjf transmission-1.75.tar.bz2
[09:02] <pitti> tar -cf - transmission-1.75 | gzip -9 > transmission_1.75.orig.tar.gz
[09:02] <pitti> james_w: wouldn't a mere bunzip2/gzip9 be better (keeping the tar as it is)?
[09:07] <dholbach> pitti: I just fell out of the internet... did you reply? if not... take your time :)
[09:07] <pitti> dholbach: didn't yet, sorry
[09:07] <dholbach> as I said... take it easy - it's still only 10:07
[09:14] <lool> cjwatson: thanks for new debootstrap
[09:17] <dholbach> cjwatson, slangasek: do you have an opinion about moving bicyclerepair to universe? (bug 434991)
[09:20] <lifeless> ohhh sponsors!
[09:20]  * lifeless seeks more +1s
[09:21] <pitti> dholbach: yes, we still need that for lzma, let me check
[09:21] <pitti> dholbach: Pre-Depends: dpkg (>= 1.10.27ubuntu1)
[09:21] <dholbach> lidaobing, freeflying: you will need a pre-depends too ^
[09:22] <lidaobing> dholbach, lintian 没有报错，我以为已经不需要了
[09:22] <lidaobing> dholbach, lintian does not warning on this, so I thought it no longer needed in karmic
[09:22] <freeflying> lidaobing: haha, you're speacking chinese :)
[09:23] <lidaobing> freeflying, sorry, i thought here is #ubuntu-zh
[09:23] <dholbach> lidaobing: it'll be necessary for upgrades
[09:24] <lidaobing> dholbach, OK, i'll fix it and reupload in today
[09:24] <dholbach> super
[09:24] <dholbach> gracias
[09:35] <lifeless> pitti: I want your +1. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgetopt++/+bug/434927 https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/config-manager/+bug/434943
[09:54] <glick> hey how do i send compiler options to the compiler using cmake?
[10:03] <soren> Errr... Can't I file bugs directly on Launchpad anymore? Seriously?
[10:04] <soren> ah. I need to add ?no-redirect to the URL. That's really annoying.
[10:04] <dholbach> asac: gracias
[10:04] <asac> welcome
[10:04] <dholbach> soren:    alt-f2 "ubuntu-bug <package>"
[10:05] <soren> dholbach: "directly on Launchpad"
[10:05] <dholbach> it will directly open a launchpad bug ;-)
[10:05] <asac> soren: yes. its a bit annoying that you get redirected ... so you cannot even just append it afterwards ;)
[10:06] <soren> asac: Exactly. *grumble*
[10:07] <seb128> dholbach, when firefox doesn't crash or when your proxy doesn't block apport and when you are wanting to send details on the box you are using which might be not the one having the issue
[10:07] <dholbach> if firefox crashes, you need to mail
[10:08] <seb128> to mail what?
[10:08] <dholbach> the bug report
[10:08] <dholbach> apport could give you instructions for that, but it'd be tough as you can't add your GPG key to LP without a browser :)
[10:08] <seb128> there is an open bug about not redirecting bugcontrol
[10:08] <seb128> that's what we need ;-)
[10:09] <dholbach> I think it'd be better if we fixed all the issues with ubuntu-bug first :)
[10:09] <cjwatson> dholbach: bicyclerepair> I have no opinion on it
[10:09] <dholbach> and make use of it
[10:10] <cjwatson> dholbach: ubuntu-bug clearly isn't always appropriate, though
[10:10] <cjwatson> dholbach: consider: "I can't install Ubuntu, here's why"
[10:11] <soren> Or "I have this problem on one of my servers, and want to report it from my laptop".
[10:11] <dholbach> right, I'm just saying that before we say "ok, just drop the redirect for us" is not going to help us fix the biggest issues with it
[10:11] <james_w> pitti: are you sure that's not a get-orig-source rule?
[10:11] <pitti> james_w: whoops, indeed it is; thanks
[10:14] <seb128> dholbach, my issue with ubuntu-bug is not bugs, is that it's slower for me than using the web ui and not required to open for example workflow bugs for desktop upgrades
[10:14] <dholbach> seb128: AIUI it's an experiment now to find issues like the ones we talked about above
[10:15] <seb128> yes, not discussing that
[10:15] <harobed> hi, what do you use to make your UI mockup like at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#software-sources ?
[10:15] <harobed> inkscape ?
[10:15] <seb128> you seem to argue that I'm wrong wanting to not use it though
[10:15] <dholbach> no
[10:16] <dholbach> I just say "let a few of us not be redirected" won't help us fix issues that a lot of users are going to have soon
[10:17] <seb128> gotcha
[10:17]  * seb128 hugs dholbach
[10:17]  * dholbach hugs seb128 back :)
[10:17] <seb128> the main issue out of the firefox crash asac should fix soon is people having valid reason to not use apport
[10:18] <cjwatson> as long as the experiment doesn't have a predetermined outcome. What is required to consider it a failure and drop the redirect?
[10:18] <seb128> we probably need to get a middle way, it having a button to open a bug anyway on the redirect page for example
[10:19] <cjwatson> yes, it takes you to a wiki page that tells you how to do it by URL hacking if you read really carefully, buried about half-way down
[10:19] <cjwatson> that's definitely nowhere near good enough
[10:19]  * lifeless hugs file-by-mail
[10:19] <Daviey> No, greacemonkey cuts the mustard on an individual level
[10:19] <cjwatson> it needs to be right up top - at which point I wonder if it will make any difference at all, since people will just press the big button
[10:19] <Daviey> err greasemonkey
[10:19] <cjwatson> individual's not a problem
[10:20] <lifeless> what about a url handler
[10:20] <cjwatson> my thought experiment is this:
[10:20] <lifeless> in fireforx
[10:20] <lifeless> like filebug:
[10:20] <cjwatson> lifeless: worthless if you can't file from Ubuntu
[10:20] <Ng> harobed: I think mpt draws them by hand ;)
[10:21] <cjwatson>  * a user is having problems installing Ubuntu, and goes to file a bug from another machine
[10:21] <cjwatson>  * we redirect them to a big wiki page preaching about how they should use tools they don't have
[10:21] <cjwatson>  * they think "sod this, they obviously don't want my help" and give up
[10:21] <lifeless> cjwatson: I was thinking it could be a little smart, and show the bug filing form if that handler didn't get run
[10:21] <harobed> Ng: ok and scanned
[10:21] <mpt> harobed, yes, I drew that by hand and scanned it. Contrast increased using the Curves function in Gimp.
[10:22] <Ng> I still think someone there should be an mpt gtk theme ;)
[10:22] <Ng> -someone
[10:23] <harobed> mpt: ok, your mockup are very nice
[10:23] <lifeless> cjwatson: I agree with your gedanken. A similar run I ran into a little while back was a upstream developer who gets their package packaged in Debian via -mentors; faced with the hurdles that sync bugs want they had given up.
[10:24] <lifeless> cjwatson: I pointed them at request sync, and now they are happy
[10:24]  * Daviey edits h.u.c/community/ReportingBugs to include a paypal link to "get your bug fixed faster" :).
[10:25] <virtuald> that's not a bad idea
[10:26] <virtuald> alt-f2 doesn't work in karmic :/
[10:27] <lifeless> virtuald: ztrl-alt-F2
[10:28] <virtuald> hehe
[10:28] <lifeless> alt-f2 is help, or something
[10:28] <virtuald> it's run application
[10:28] <lifeless> oh, well it works for me
[10:28] <virtuald> in karmic?
[10:29] <lifeless> something approximating it
[10:29] <lifeless> cjwatson: could I interest you in three sync requests; one (bicyclerepair) that needs discussion about whether to demote it to universe or promote vim-addon-manager
[10:29] <lifeless> cjwatson: and two trivial ones
[10:34] <cjwatson> lifeless: sure?
[10:35] <lifeless> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bicyclerepair/+bug/434991
[10:35] <lifeless> thats the problem one
[10:36] <lifeless> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgetopt++/+bug/434927   https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/config-manager/+bug/434943 are trivial seeking a second +1
[10:43] <Dyllan> Hi all. Is there a file that I can view/access where Synaptic keeps its proxy settings?
[10:47] <mvo_> Dyllan: yes, but its kept in /root/.synaptic by default
[10:47] <mvo_> Dyllan: it will use the gconf proxy settings though in ubuntu
[10:48] <Dyllan> mvo_, thanks ill look into that.
[10:49] <cjwatson> lifeless: I can't say I have any problem moving brm to universe
[10:50] <pitti> lifeless: hi
[10:50] <lifeless> I'm pretty sure its in main cause 'its python'
[10:50] <lifeless> pitti: hi, I snagged cjwatson :)
[10:50] <cjwatson> vim-addon-manager is useful enough of course, if you install other things that need it
[10:50] <mvo_> Dyllan: what do you need it for (out of curisosity)
[10:50] <cjwatson> but I think this is the first time it's come up so I guess it's not otherwise required yet
[10:50] <cjwatson> yes, it is in main because it's python
[10:51] <pitti> lifeless: right, seems ScottK beat me to it; sorry for delay
[10:51] <lifeless> pitti: two +1's are needed :P
[10:51] <lifeless> pitti: ScottK was the first
[10:51] <lifeless> pitti: we'll need two on the bicyclerepair one
[10:51] <lifeless> cjwatson: I'm happy either way; I have not particular suggestions to offer
[10:52] <lifeless> rdepends on vim-addon-manager isn't hugely enlightening
[10:52] <Dyllan> mvo_, Well I have +-10 mobile ubuntu users, basically staff who have ubuntu installed on their laptop and move to different locations, each location requiring different proxy settings for Thunderbird/Firefox, and changes to the /etc/hosts file.
[10:52] <Dyllan> mvo_, So i created a program that changes this for them very easily by then selecting their location, it applies all setting to TB/FF and the /etc/hosts file.
[10:53] <lifeless> Dyllan: proxy.pac is your friend, if you can use that approach.
[10:53] <pitti> lifeless: ok, done these two (getopt and config-mgr)
[10:53] <lifeless> pitti: thank you!
[10:53] <Dyllan> mvo_, the only change i am missing now is the Synaptic proxy settings, depending on whether they are in the office our out of the office, so i wanted to know what file to edit to be able to achieve this.
[10:54] <pitti> lifeless: I don't mind having bicyclerepair in universe either; it's equally useful there, and we don't _really_ maintain it anyway
[10:54] <Dyllan> lifeless, yes for sure, although I have preferred to write my own from scratch and customize it to our company's needs, but thanks for the info.
[10:55] <lifeless> pitti: no, clearly ;P - it was broken in vim for two releases till I got a round TUIT
[10:55] <sebner> cjwatson: as you are archive admin today, might looking what happned to mono 2.4.2.3+dfsg-2? 3 weeks ago we synced, got lost. Yesterday synced again and still missing :\
[10:55] <pitti> lifeless: I move it to universe and ack the sync
[10:56] <lifeless> cjwatson: ^ if you could do the second +1 I'd be much obliged
[10:57] <glick> how do you know what name to put for the package?  and what do they mean by package?
[10:57] <glick> in cmake
[10:57] <glick> for the option find_package
[10:57] <lifeless> glick: #cmake please
[10:57] <glick> yaeh cmake is dead
[10:58] <lifeless> or #kde-devel or whatever its called
[10:58] <glick> thoght someone in here might know
[10:58] <lifeless> glick: its not particularly ontopic here
[10:58] <glick> sorry, i figured, being in a devel channel, someone in here might know
[10:58] <glick> sorry
[10:58] <mvo_> Dyllan: ok, using gconf (via gcooltool --set) should work I think
[10:59] <lifeless> glick: they may, but you've had no indication of that over an 8 hour or so window of questions. I think that if someone here does know, they are keeping it very quiet :)
[11:00] <Dyllan> mvo_, excellent thank you.
[11:00] <glick> lifeless, someone coulda come in that knows :P
[11:00] <cjwatson> pitti: you know, I'm being archive admin this morning, you can do something else rather than preempting me when I'm already looking into something ... ;-)
[11:00] <lifeless> cjwatson: that was my fault I suspect; sorry.
[11:01] <cjwatson> pitti can read scrollback :)
[11:01] <lifeless> :)
[11:01] <cjwatson> I'm waiting for my browser to reboot
[11:01] <lifeless> do you have many tabs?
[11:01] <pitti> cjwatson: sorry, it wasn't clear to me that you were going to
[11:01] <cjwatson> lifeless: yes
[11:02] <lifeless> me too. I find that 'network down, start browser, network up' works rather well.
[11:03] <cjwatson> I just hit escape to stop all the tabs loading after a while. firefox-3.5 is better at remembering the URLs even if I do that before it had managed to load any of the page at all
[11:27] <lifeless> cjwatson: thank you!
[12:12] <cjwatson> YokoZar: the wine1.2-dbg package is empty - intentional? (accepted anyway)
[12:12] <lool> ScottK: buildds building again
[12:16] <sebner> seb128: mono vanished again :\
[12:25] <YokoZar> cjwatson: err, no, that would be a bug with the rules file
[12:26] <YokoZar> cjwatson: found it, misspelling with --dbg-package=
[12:31] <unggnu> hi all
[12:32] <unggnu> What are the plans for Karmic and Rhythmbox. Should it still be replaced because in current Karmic it is still the default
[12:32] <pitti> unggnu: it will stay the default
[12:33] <unggnu> pitti: thx
[12:35] <bdrung_> who is responsible for copying packages from -proposed to -updates?
[12:36] <cody-somerville> bdrung_, archive admins
[12:38] <bdrung_> cody-somerville: so i can unsubscribe the sponsors
[12:38] <bdrung_> thanks
[12:39] <seb128> sebner, I blame it on soyuz then, I've pinged them about it
[12:42] <sebner> seb128: thx
[13:12] <MacSlow> seb128, hey there
[13:13] <seb128> hey MacSlow
[13:22] <pitti> bdrung_: usually that's me
[13:23] <bdrung_> pitti: ?
 who is responsible for copying packages from -proposed to -updates?
[13:23] <bdrung_> k
[13:24] <bdrung_> pitti: i was cleaning up the sponsors list
[13:29] <smoser> wonder if anyone can help.  I'm trying to get a refreshed version of the hardy ec2 image.  I'm building an chroot of hardy on a karmic system.
[13:30] <smoser> a 'chroot <target> apt-get install .... x11-common' is dying with segfault in x11-common's post install
[13:30] <smoser> anyone have a clue as to how to work around or fix ?
[13:31] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/276384/ is the full vmbuilder log
[13:31] <smoser> it ends in
[13:31] <smoser> dpkg: error processing x11-common (--configure):
[13:31] <smoser>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 139
[13:32] <zul> smoser: thats probably not a godo thing
[13:48] <pitti> tkamppeter: hi! got a minute?
[13:48] <pitti> tkamppeter: I would like to discuss the cupsctl call with you
[13:55] <pitti> tkamppeter: I'll throw it out of the init script again; it causes conffile questions, and overwrites the admin's settings
[13:56] <pitti> tkamppeter: instead, I'll change the default value in the code from "8m" to MemTotal/4
[14:20] <mbiebl> pitti: hi
[14:21] <mbiebl> have you noticed that Keybuk had uploaded a cups version with native upstart jobs
[14:21] <pitti> hey mbiebl
[14:22] <pitti> oh, he did?
[14:22] <pitti> I'll merge that into the bzr branch then
[14:22] <mbiebl> well, at least it in the ubuntu-boot ppa
[14:22] <pitti> ah
[14:23] <mbiebl> pitti: btw, I'm going to move the libatasmart libs to /lib as apparently dk-disks uses it in it's udev helpers
[14:24] <pitti> mbiebl: right, makes sense
[14:24] <pitti> same happened for glib in Debian, I think
[14:24] <pitti> one of the tree callouts uses glib
[14:24] <mbiebl> yeah, I asked Np237 for that
[14:26] <mbiebl> as new enough glib/gtk are now in unstable, I'll start uploading newer DK/CK/PK versions soonish
[14:26] <pitti> oooh
[14:26] <mbiebl> which should (mostly) sync with the current Ubuntu versions
[14:26] <pitti> mbiebl: I wanted to ask you about PK, and whether I should just upload it to experimental
[14:27] <pitti> I wasn't aware that it was waiting for glib
[14:27] <mbiebl> The other one is libgudev, will have to prod Md when he plans to upload it to unstable
[14:27] <pitti> mbiebl: I'm fine with helping to commit the recent versions/packageing changes to git
[14:28] <mbiebl> cool
[14:28] <pitti> looking forward to getting in sync again
[14:28] <pitti> and doing packaging in VCS
[14:28] <pitti> not using any vcs really feels strange nowadays..
[14:29] <seb128> pitti, speaking about glib did you review the debian update?
[14:30] <mbiebl> pitti: I made a few changes to PK 0.94 so I can use symbols files proper
[14:30] <mbiebl> fortunately the patch has been accepted upstream already
[14:30] <pitti> mbiebl: still on my list
[14:30] <pitti> mbiebl: right, I remember that this one was a beast
[14:30] <pitti> there was one package where I used .shlibs, because there were too many foreign symbols in it
[14:31] <pitti> erm, I meant: seb128: still on my list
[14:31] <seb128> pitti, ok no hurry, thanks
[14:31] <mbiebl> pitti: regarding PK 1.0
[14:31] <mbiebl> had a brief chat on #gnome-debian
[14:32] <mbiebl> afaics hal is the only main package which is (and won't be) ported to PK 1
[14:32] <mbiebl> what do you think about disabling PK/CK support in hal and using static groups resp. at_console in the dbus security policy
[14:33] <mbiebl> this way we could get rid of the PK 0.9 stack for squeeze/karmic
[14:48] <asac> can i teach gdb to automatically run backtrace when it breaks?
[14:48] <pitti> mbiebl: re (sorry, got a call)
[14:48] <pitti> mbiebl: I actually thought about that
[14:48] <pitti> mbiebl: Fedora did that as well
[14:49] <pitti> mbiebl: it wouldn't make a difference in GNOME
[14:49] <pitti> mbiebl: but KDE still uses it
[14:49] <mbiebl> right
[14:49] <pitti> mbiebl: so what it would change is that there would be a way to mount internal storage devices without authorization
[14:50] <pitti> or, if we don't allow that, there wouldn't be any way for KDE to mount internal drives
[14:50] <pitti> Fedora did the former
[14:50] <pitti> but I don't really like that
[14:50] <mbiebl> are you sure about that?
[14:50] <pitti> yes
[14:50] <pitti> mbiebl: check http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/devel/hal/hal-use-at-console.patch?revision=1.1&view=markup
[14:51] <mbiebl> no, I mean that KDE handles internal storage correctly
[14:51] <pitti> ah
[14:51] <pitti> well, Solid uses hal ATM
[14:51] <pitti> I think a port to udev/DK is in the beginnings, but far from being releasable
[14:51] <mbiebl> well, if you click on a internal storage device in say dolphin
[14:51] <pitti> mbiebl: it's really a sting in my eye as well, but I rather hope that X can be fixed to not use hal any more
[14:52] <pitti> and then we can drop hal and PK 0.9 at the same time
[14:52] <mbiebl> you will only get the hal PermissionDeniedByPolicy error message
[14:52] <pitti> mbiebl: (right, I didn't actually _try_ it in KDE admittedly)
[14:52] <mbiebl> KDE will not try to authenticate you via PK
[14:52] <pitti> Riddell: ^ does that work for you?
[14:52] <pitti> I thought for reasons like this we still have the old PK in the first place
[14:53] <mbiebl> and the PK support in system-settings (via libpolkit-qt) is not used
[14:53] <pecisk> hi people, is gnome-shell broken in Karmic or I just got unlucky in running it? :)
[14:53] <mbiebl> I asked the kde guys on #debian-qt-kde and they were fine with dropping PK 0.9 support (via libpolkit-qt)
[14:54] <pitti> yay
[14:54] <pitti> mbiebl: sure, then let's use at_console, but not allow internal storage?
[14:54] <mbiebl> fine with me
[14:54] <pitti> I'll still confirm with Riddell, though
[14:54] <mbiebl> that is basically what we have in lenny
[14:58] <Riddelll> pitti: what's the question?
[14:59] <pitti> Riddelll: can you mount internal partitions in KDE? does it ask you for PK auth using the old (0.9) policykit-qt?
[14:59] <Riddelll> pitti: yes you can, it's a Kubuntu patch, and it uses kdesudo not policykit
[15:00] <pitti> ah, sweet
[15:00] <pitti> Riddelll: so if hal would restrict that only to root, it would actually work fine?
[15:00] <Riddelll> pitti: I expect so yes
[15:00] <pitti> rock
[15:00] <pitti> Riddelll: I'll upload a hal with that then, and test it on tomorrow's kubuntu live
[15:01] <pitti> if it doesn't work, I can still roll back before beta
[15:01] <pitti> thanks
[15:01] <Riddelll> ok
[15:01] <pitti> mbiebl: so, seems fine :)
[15:03] <mbiebl> pitti: so, remaining PK 0.9 packages are argyll, connman, gksu-polkit, packagekit and libvirt
[15:03] <mbiebl> for libvirt, I know there are patches
[15:05] <mbiebl> I think connman has a configure switch which allows to disable PK support for now (until ported)
[15:05] <mbiebl> And I'm pretty sure PackageKit has PK 1.0 patches too (given that fedora uses it)
[15:05] <pecisk> mbiebl: just curious, you getting rid of PolicyKit? :)
[15:06] <mbiebl> PK 0.9
[15:06] <mbiebl> pecisk: it would be a pain to ship with two PK stacks
[15:06] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[15:06] <pecisk> mbiebl: I see :)
[15:25] <al-maisan> Hello there! In order to test a pristine-tar extension of mine (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=545457) I'd like to get my hands on the debian tar balls for sid. What's the best way to achieve this?
[15:26] <cjwatson> al-maisan: they're supposed to be imported into LP, https://launchpad.net/debian etc.
[15:30] <al-maisan> cjwatson: sure .. I hoped there would be source CDs that I could download in one fell swoop.
[15:37] <ScottK> lool: Thanks for minding getting things started again.
[15:38] <pitti> mbiebl: btw, I tracked that on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/PolicyKitOneMigration
[15:39] <mbiebl> pitti: nice, thanks
[15:40] <pitti> mbiebl: yes, PackageKit 0.5 uses PK 1.0, just not the 0.4 branch which we are carrying
[15:40] <pitti> mbiebl: we'll switch to packagekit 0.5 once polkit-1-kde exists
[15:40] <mbiebl> ok
[15:42] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have seen your CUPS change, how will you set MemTotal/4 as system default at build time?
[15:42] <pitti> tkamppeter: I'll still get to that
[15:42] <pitti> tkamppeter: not at build time, as an internal default in the code (which currenlty sets "8m")
[15:43] <tkamppeter> pitti, now I understand.
[15:44] <mbiebl> pitti: updated the wiki a bit
[15:55] <seb128> sebner, directhex: the mono syncs is done now, it required manual tweaking to the .changes soyuz explode on the new line chars in the binaries list there
[15:55] <directhex> seb128, really? that's a bit weird. any idea what could cause that?
[15:55] <seb128> directhex, the new line chars or soyuz to explode?
[15:56] <directhex> both, perhaps
[15:56] <seb128> directhex, dunno for the .changes
[15:56] <directhex> the only case i know of where newlines are funny is msdos line endings... which wouldn't be the case here
[15:57] <seb128> but that's not rfc-822 coompliant and a case which didn't happen before apparently and that soyuz doesn't handle
[15:57] <seb128> lack of feature or bug as you want
[15:57] <seb128> I will open a bug now
[16:00] <cjwatson> al-maisan: oh, there should be those yes, try http://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/
[16:00] <al-maisan> cjwatson: thanks!
[16:00] <jjardon> hello all, libusb-1.0 is in the repositories, but the installed version is still 0.1-4 in current karmic. Does anyone know why?
[16:01] <highvoltage> cjwatson: for the alternate CD, there's a preseed for installing an LTSP server and a F4 menu option in gfxboot, is there a way we can get that for the Edubuntu DVD?
[16:02] <sebner> seb128: thanks for your work and letting us know!
[16:02] <pitti> mbiebl: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-dev/hal/ubuntu/revision/355
[16:03] <pitti> mbiebl: works fine here
[16:10] <mbiebl> pitti: I'm wondering what the CK support in HAL now is doing
[16:10] <mbiebl> given that we no longer user PK and the ACL handling
[16:11] <pitti> hm, good question
[16:11] <pitti> I disabled ACL support in our hal long ago
[16:12] <mbiebl> pitti: hald/access-check.c
[16:13] <mbiebl> 223ff
[16:14] <mbiebl> If I read it correctly, you could just as well disable CK support, as your dbus policy file basically provides the same level of access control
[16:15] <kees> pitti: ah... we disable apparmor's init script on the liveCD don't we?  so by me moving it into the initramfs, we've bypassed that again.  erk.
[16:16] <kees> pitti: I will take a look at this today.
[16:25] <pitti> kees: ah, so it might have been the recent upload indeed
[16:25] <pitti> kees: I wasn't quite sure whether AA was disabled in earlier live systems
[16:27] <pitti> mbiebl: re (sorry, phone); I quickly grepped for HAVE_CONKIT, and there's quite a bunch of it
[16:30] <highvoltage> I see some people used the /specs namespace on the wiki for karmic
[16:30] <highvoltage> wouldn't that be a good convention for all specs?
[16:30] <highvoltage> perhaps even /specs/karmic /specs/lucid, etc?
[16:35] <pitti> highvoltage: we started using TeamName/Specs/Release
[16:35] <pitti> e. g. DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/
[16:39] <highvoltage> pitti: ah I see it's a well established convention. cool.
[16:41] <ogra> highvoltage, one i told ace several times now :P
[16:41] <ogra> (though only for new specs)
[16:41] <LaserJock> ogra: you mean all specs ever written should be move to conform?
[16:42] <LaserJock> *shouldn't
[16:42] <ogra> no,
[16:42] <ogra> my god
[16:42] <LaserJock> ;-)
[16:42] <ogra> right, shouldnt :)
[16:42] <ogra> all new ones should be created like that
[16:43] <LaserJock> ogra: it doesn't seem as if meeting logs have quite as an estabilished a convention
[16:43] <ogra> well, the scribes team made one up
[16:43] <ogra> many teams stick to that
[16:43] <LaserJock> some logs are still in MeetingLogs/ , some are in <team>/Meetings, etc.
[16:44] <LaserJock> I still have 64 wiki edit emails from that one :/
[16:44] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/
[16:44] <ogra> thats what we use in my team
[17:08] <bdmurray> pitti: does apport-collect work with a symptom (like storage)?
[17:15] <pitti> bdmurray: not right now; I'm a bit unsure about what the semantics of that would be, since it's kind of backwards
[17:15] <pitti> a symptom determines the affected package
[17:16] <pitti> but apport-collect works on already existing bugs
[17:16] <pitti> so far I worked around that by asking the reporter  to run apport-bug and file a new one, and tell me the number
[17:16] <pitti> we could perhaps make it to change the affected package?
[17:17] <bdmurray> That's what I was doing too but being able to use collect and having it change the package would make sense to me
[18:12] <Riddelll> pitti: the jockey-kde issue I wanted to investigate turned out to be that it doesn't show any drivers if you start it when there's no network
[18:12] <Riddelll> which is confusing but not unreasonable
[18:12] <pitti> Riddelll: oh the live system?
[18:12] <pitti> Riddelll: it needs a package index from restricted
[18:12] <Riddelll> pitti: installed
[18:12] <pitti> ah, so it never apt-get update'd?
[18:12] <Riddelll> right, and it didn't have that
[18:12] <pitti> ah
[18:13] <pitti> that's intended, yes
[18:13] <pitti> we don't ship the drivers on CD any more
[18:13] <Riddelll> and it's nothing frontend specific so I can relax :)
[18:13] <pitti> so if they aren't on the CD source, you need network to get the packages
[18:13] <pitti> *phew* :-)
[18:24] <doko> asac: is the fixed xulrunner-1.9.1 in karmic?
[18:29] <phreestyle-work> have a question...I don't even know if this is the right room to ask, so please point me in the right direction if this is the wrong room: I'm a Windows developer (C#) during the day, but I like Ubuntu and I find and report bugs on a regular basis, but the bugs almost never get fixed. I'd like to learn how to fix them myself. I'm learning Python and have already have a good handle on programming concepts, so is there a place I can get help for
[18:32] <ccheney> phreestyle-work: well you need to know the language for the program you are trying to fix bugs for at minimum so you could probably help with c# or python related programs
[18:33] <phreestyle-work> ccheney: any suggestions on python projects to contact?
[18:33] <ccheney> phreestyle-work: to get the source to a package you can run apt-get source (foo) then to build you can use something like pbuilder or debuild
[18:34] <ccheney> phreestyle-work: no, sorry i don't work on python stuff myself so don't know much about them
[18:34] <phreestyle-work> ccheney: is there a page somewhere that details the process of getting the source and building + testing?
[18:35] <ccheney> phreestyle-work: probably under development on this page: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
[18:35] <ccheney> phreestyle-work: which redirects here basically https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
[18:35] <phreestyle-work> ccheney: yea, all it takes about is packaging
[18:35] <ccheney> phreestyle-work: there is a section that tells what to do to build
[18:36] <ccheney> phreestyle-work: testing is just running the program to see if it works, unless it happens to have unit tests, etc
[18:37] <phreestyle-work> ccheney: ok, thanks...I'll try to find some more information about building and testing
[18:39] <ccheney> you might have better luck asking someone on #ubuntu-motu
[18:39] <phreestyle-work> ccheney: ok, thanks...I'll try there
[19:05] <mdz> smoser, hi
[19:05] <smoser> hi.
[19:06] <mdz> smoser, I'm at linux plumbers and intermittently offline, but wanted to check in with you regarding the ec2-images bugs and see how things are going
[19:06] <Turl> hello, can anyone set this bug some importance? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/393008
[19:08] <smoser> making reasonable progress. i think i have bug 429169 and bug 423497 mostly done. i was working on bug 429106.
[19:08] <smoser> zul, has been poking at bug 431103 a bit.
[19:09] <smoser> that really just leaves bug 431255 as something i wanted to get done. and getting those all pulled together cleanly.
[19:11] <mdz> smoser, I noticed that linux-ec2 wasn't in main yet; presumably that needs to be done as well in order to fix 429169?
[19:11] <mdz> zul, how are the MIRs going?
[19:11] <zul> mdz: like the rabbitmq ones they are done
[19:12] <mdz> smoser, will you be pushing those fixes into Karmic today?
[19:12] <mdz> zul, "done" in this case means the packages have been moved to main, and I don't think that's the case yet
[19:13] <smoser> i'll get them all together, and ask soren to take a read. might try to get the changes into vmbuilder trunk and automated builds for tonights builds.
[19:13] <zul> mdz: i seeded rabbitmq yesterday Im not sure whats going on with it
[19:13] <zul> mdz: ill bug pitti about it
[19:13] <mdz> zul, please find out.  I'm particularly interesetd in the ones on this list: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images
[19:14] <mdz> smoser, AIUI soren is out sick, and may not be back tomorrow if he doesn't feel better, so be careful not to block on him
[19:14] <zul> mdz: ok
[19:14] <smoser> regarding MIR that i filed, ec2-init had some comments on it. i responded to pitti out of bug. most of the comments were regarding rightscale-init. i think we might be able to ditch that script, i've had some discussion with the rightcsale folks today.
[19:57] <dyek> Hi! I need to receive ALSA device (appearing/disappearing) notification in my app. The notification needs to be working on Ubuntu 9.04 Jaunty. The same executable also needs to be made to run on older distributions but the notification can be just studs. I read that libgudev/ GUdevClient is awesome, but any advice on the best way to be ready for the future, but be able to function on Jaunty and not prevented from running on older distributions?
[20:03] <mbiebl> pitti: you might also remove the polkit-auth call from hal.postinst
[20:04] <pitti> re
[20:04] <pitti> mbiebl: right, good call
[20:05] <pitti> zul: but me about what?
[20:05] <pitti> oh, /query
[20:09] <pitti> smoser: please feel free to respond in the bug, to keep a record of the discussion
[20:09] <pitti> smoser: I'll follow up to your mail soon; sorry, bit crazy today
[20:10] <smoser> pitti, so just forward my mail to you to the bug ?
[20:11] <dyek> I read that libudev required root privilege, unless for the latest kernel. Was the root privilege required for netlink socket? What is the kernel version where root privilege was no longer required for libudev?
[20:11] <smoser> i understand crazy
[20:11] <pitti> smoser: didn't look at it yet, if it's okay to publish
[20:11] <smoser> i just didn't want to confuse the bug. fairly long winded.
[20:11] <smoser> i'll put it there.
[20:19] <pitti> smoser: thanks; then it's easier to reply/quote, etc.
[21:21] <mdke> pitti: stripping out the translated xml from ubuntu-docs has worked a treat, 450kb instead of 3.8mb after the latest upload. Thanks again for working on that
[21:27] <seb128> mdke, hi, do you work on ubuntu-docs changes?
[21:28] <mdke> seb128: yes
[21:28] <seb128> mdke, do you think it would make sense to have the about ubuntu desktop file there?
[21:28] <seb128> mdke, also do you know if somebody is working on updating gnome-user-docs?
[21:30] <mdke> seb128: on the first one, I'm not sure I'm best placed to judge. My initial reaction would be that if you think it's a good idea, no problem here. How do translations work for that file? Would we need to import them manually?
[21:30] <mdke> seb128: on the second one, it's bug 434434
[21:30] <seb128> mdke, thanks
[21:31] <seb128> mdke, we often get issues for about ubuntu like derivative having the item bug it's not working since the documentation is not there
[21:31] <mdke> I saw that in xubuntu, but I assumed it's an issue with the xubuntu menu showing the item
[21:32] <mdke> I don't know how panels work, really :(
[21:32] <seb128> but right we would need to move translations or translators would need to catch up on it
[21:32] <seb128> well the place where it is is not a standard one
[21:32] <seb128> you can easily add things to categories but not there
[21:32] <mdke> ideally there would be some way to get the string from the about-ubuntu document itself
[21:32] <seb128> so we hardcode the desktop adding conditionally on the omf presence there
[21:33] <seb128> but that's a gnome-panel change which means other menus might list it wrongly if they are not modified
[21:34] <mdke> ok
[21:34] <mdke> do you think this is something that we should consider for karmic? Or shall we try and spec it up for lucid?
[21:34] <mdke> dunno if some consultation with derivatives is in order
[21:35] <seb128> it should be easy enough to change
[21:35] <seb128> I doubt it
[21:35] <mdke> if there are no drawbacks then I'm sure derivatives will be ok with it
[21:36] <seb128> ok
[21:36] <seb128> I will have a look again and ping you back about that
[21:36] <mdke> I'm just trying to think if there is any way to use the existing translation templates we use for the document
[21:37] <mdke> it uses gettext/xml2po
[21:37] <mdke> obviously it already contains the string "About Ubuntu" :)
[21:37] <mdke> I don't really have a good understanding of gettext to figure that out though
[21:38] <seb128> do you have a po dir and a POTFILES.in in ubunt-docs?
[21:38] <mdke> we have a po dir for each document, but not POTFILES.in
[21:38] <mdke> the packaging is quite simplistic, I think
[21:38] <seb128> ok, I will have a look
[21:39] <mdke> let me know if anything is confusing
[21:39] <seb128> usually it's easy when you have a POTFILES.in but documentation is different
[21:39] <mdke> it's kinda evolved over time so it might not be very coherent... but it works :)
[21:42] <mdke> seb128: it's in bzr in lp:ubuntu-docs btw
[21:42] <seb128> mdke, ok, I will let you know if I take a look
[21:42] <seb128> thanks for working on that and the gnome-user-docs update ;-)
[21:43] <mdke> no problem - i still need to do it
[21:49] <smoser> slangasek, ping
[21:52] <Kent> hi, im working on a install script for a program and would like to know a little about the folder structure, in arch i use this http://pastebin.ca/1577042 what is the equialent for ubuntu
[21:55] <Darxus> Kent: I think you're looking for debian policy.
[21:56] <Kent> Darxus: is it the same for all debian system
[21:56] <Darxus> File system structure: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html#s9.1
[21:56] <Darxus> Which points at:
[21:56] <Darxus> http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html
[21:56] <Darxus> Kent: I believe so.
[21:57] <Kent> Darxus Tnx
[21:58] <Darxus> Kent: You're welcome.
[21:59] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm trying to compile a subset of Hardy from source, then debootstrap the result
[21:59] <seb_kuzminsky> it's working pretty well, but...
[21:59] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm confused by Priorities
[21:59] <seb_kuzminsky> anyone care about Hardy still?
[21:59] <Darxus> Heh.
[21:59] <seb_kuzminsky> in the official ubuntu repo, many binary packages have Priorities that differ from the Priorities of their source packages
[21:59] <Darxus> I'm running hardy on my server.
[22:00] <seb_kuzminsky> when i compile a source package (in a hardy pbuilder), the resulting .debs have Priorities that differ from the Priority of the official .debs
[22:00] <seb_kuzminsky> for example, ubuntu-minimal.deb has "Priority: important" in the ubuntu.com repo
[22:00] <Darxus> Hardy is the most recent LTS, so I would say people care about it.
[22:00] <seb_kuzminsky> but the control file in the matching ubuntu-meta source package has "Priority: optional", and so do the .debs i build from it
[22:01] <seb_kuzminsky> so debootstrap doesnt pull it in by default :-(
[22:01] <seb_kuzminsky> what am i doing wrong?
[22:01] <LaserJock> seb_kuzminsky: the archive administrators have a separate list of the priorities
[22:01] <seb_kuzminsky> aha!
[22:01] <LaserJock> seb_kuzminsky: which allows them to override the packages listed priority
[22:01] <Darxus> Hardy still has another four years before EOL.
[22:02]  * seb_kuzminsky pokes around the archive looking for the *real* priorities
[22:06] <seb_kuzminsky> hm, where is this "higher-priority priority list" kept?
[22:07] <cjwatson> it's in indices/ on any mirror
[22:07] <cjwatson> override.hardy.main or some such, I forget the exact name
[22:09] <seb_kuzminsky> oh right
[22:09] <seb_kuzminsky> thanks
[22:49] <Keybuk> slangasek: you didn't commit your util-linux changes ;-)
[22:50] <slangasek> Keybuk: to lamont's git repo?  No, no I didn't :-P
[22:50] <Keybuk> slangasek: or to the one on kernel.ubuntu.com :p
[22:50] <Keybuk> and you didn't even send a git format-patch output
[22:50] <Keybuk> tsk
[22:50] <slangasek> which is not in the Vcs field
[22:50] <Keybuk> (or writable by you :p)
[22:50] <Keybuk> you could have branched it ;P
[22:51] <porcofino> good evening
[22:51] <porcofino> does any of you devs actively use bash?
[22:52] <porcofino> I'm having issues with my ubuntu's bash
[22:52] <ion> releasing version 0.1.8
[22:52] <slangasek> Keybuk: pass
[22:52] <ion> Without merging my branch? :-P
[22:52] <porcofino> it doesn't recognize let expressions
[22:52]  * lamont tsks at slangasek 
[22:52] <slangasek> lamont: put it in bzr, then I'll be happy to branch it :)
[22:53] <cjwatson> porcofino: I think it's safe to say pretty much every developer actively uses bash to some extent, though personally I never use let expressions since they're bash-specific
[22:53] <cjwatson> porcofino: what exactly is failing?
[22:53] <lamont> slangasek: sure.  once upstream does
[22:54]  * lamont is reminded today just how much work debian-installer does
[22:54] <porcofino> cjwatson: it doesn't recognize let expressions
[22:54] <porcofino> I'll post a pastebin link in a moment
[22:55] <cjwatson> porcofino: I bet you have #! /bin/sh at the top of your script
[22:55] <porcofino> cjwatson... yes!
[22:55] <cjwatson> porcofino: #! /bin/sh means "run this script using some POSIX-compatible shell"
[22:55] <lamont> porcofino: and that is now /bin/dash, not /bin/bash
[22:56] <porcofino> wth
[22:56] <cjwatson> porcofino: if you want to use bash-specific features, you'd better say #! /bin/bash
[22:56] <porcofino> 0_o?
[22:56] <slangasek> lamont: better get cracking on converting them!
[22:56] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DashAsBinSh
[22:56] <porcofino> cjwatson: how do I check what my current sheel?
[22:56] <pochu> ls -l /bin/sh
[22:56] <cjwatson> porcofino: just declare bash if you're using it
[22:56] <cjwatson> porcofino: it's good practice anyway
[22:58] <lamont> slangasek: I'm pretty sure upstream is under company edict to use git, though... could be rough
[22:58] <lamont> postfix: fatal: could not find any active network interfaces <-- meh
[22:58] <porcofino> cjwatson: god. so If I want to use bash, I have to declare explicitly that I want to use that?
[22:58] <cjwatson> yes, of course
[22:58] <cjwatson> this is perfectly reasonable
[22:58] <porcofino> crap :P
[22:59] <porcofino> #! /bin/bash , then?
[22:59] <cjwatson> yep
[22:59] <cjwatson> of course you can usually replace let by portable constructs that also work in smaller, faster shells; there's an example in the wiki page
[23:00] <cjwatson> whether you want to bother is up to you
[23:02] <porcofino> cjwatson: we're learning bash at school
[23:02] <porcofino> so I guess I have to force it :P
[23:03] <cjwatson> if you like you can tell your teacher that I write shell scripts professionally most days of my working life and have never once used let ;-)
[23:03] <cjwatson> (note: this may not actually be good for your academic career)
[23:04] <porcofino> cjwatson: we're more into... java.
[23:04] <cjwatson> anyway, if your school is saying that bash scripts should start with #! /bin/sh, it's definitely wrong
[23:05] <cjwatson> there are lots of systems in the wild other than Ubuntu where that will fail
[23:05] <porcofino> cjwatson: I could also follow what says in that guide and use stuff that are common for all the shells
[23:10] <rgs__> guys can the .cache directory be (safely) removed?
[23:14] <porcofino> cjwatson: thanks mate!