[08:30] <davmor2> morning all
[08:36] <ara> morning davmor2, superstar
[08:40]  * ara starts the day working with Mago: fixing tests, merging pending requests, updating the documentation
[08:44] <davmor2> To quote UUPC sounds like a fun packed show ;)
[08:45] <popey> \o/
[08:45] <davmor2> popey: have you got a script that looks out for this kinda thing or something?
[08:45] <popey>  /hilight uupc
[08:45]  * popey pats irssi
[08:46] <davmor2> go on bite irssi
[08:47] <popey> :)
[08:49] <ara> hey popey, I want to start contributing to screencasts.u.c
[08:49] <popey> super
[08:50] <ara> popey, would you help me setting things up, please?
[08:50] <ara> dholbach told me you were the man
[08:50] <popey> have you seen http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/2009/09/11/Screencasting_on_Ubuntu_-_Part_1_of_3  ?
[08:50] <ara> popey, no. I will! thanks. I will get back to you if I have any questions
[08:51] <popey> cool
[12:58]  * davmor2 Lunch
[14:08] <davmor2> morning cr3, how's Canada this morning ?
[14:09] <cr3> davmor2: not bad, but I hear Australia's getting hit hard. got a message from a friend saying there's red dust everywhere and earthquakes in Melbourne
[14:11] <fader_> Man, this whole forgetting to change my nick manually thing is getting old
[14:12] <fader_> cr3: I hear the sun was blotted out for a bit down under due to the dust storms.  Can Mad Max be far behind?
[14:12] <davmor2> Ah fader_ nice of you to join us :P
[14:12] <fader_> davmor2: We both know I've never done anything nice in my life.
[14:12] <davmor2> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8270222.stm
[14:13]  * ara reboots
[14:13] <davmor2> fader_: That's the second nice thing you just did by admitting it :)
[14:28] <cr3> fader_: you seem to have tolerated me so far, I consider that the nicest thing anyone's done in my life :)
[14:29] <davmor2> cr3: you're too hard on yourself you're not that bad.  Well.......... ;)
[14:31] <fader_> cr3, davmor2: as long as I have border guards keeping you guys at bay, I can deal with you ;)
[14:32] <davmor2> cr3: I think we should spend a week a boston just to upset him :D
[14:32] <cr3> davmor2: I think the two of us can take him, no matter how big a chainsaw he has
[14:32] <fader_> It'd be like a 3 Stooges reunion tour
[14:33] <davmor2> hahahahahahahah
[14:33] <fader_> nyuck nyuck nyuck
[14:33] <cr3> woop woop woop woop
[14:43] <fader_> Man, the replacement for add/remove software is looking really nice
[14:51] <davmor2> fader_: is it actually working now after the bug I put in
[14:51] <fader_> davmor2: Well, it loads at least.  I didn't try installing anything from it.
[14:51] <davmor2> there are apps listed though
[14:51] <fader_> davmor2: You're always complaining... I never see you file a bug to say "the install worked perfectly!" ;)
[14:52] <fader_> Yeah, there were apps, screenshots, descriptions... really nice
[14:52] <davmor2> fader_: that would just be me closing bug 1 that's why :)
[14:52] <ubot4> davmor2: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out
[14:52] <fader_> Heh :D
[14:52]  * fader_ glares at ubot4.
[14:54] <davmor2> ubot4 targets fader_ with it's laser
[14:54] <ubot4> davmor2: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[14:54] <davmor2> I don't know you can't even have fun with the bots :)
[14:55] <fader_> Hehe
[14:56] <ara> cr3, I am getting issues right now with the at-spi layer in karmic, so I might not be able to fix the mago tests today, but working on it
[14:57] <davmor2> ara: at-spi isn't a process is it?
[14:57] <ara> davmor2, is it a daemon
[14:58] <ara> davmor2, /usr/lib/at-spi/at-spi-registryd
[14:58] <davmor2> ara: I'm just wondering if upstart is starting it
[14:59] <ara> davmor2, yes, it is
[14:59] <davmor2> cool
[15:00] <davmor2> ara: it's already built on dbus rather than hal aswell isn't it?
[15:00] <ara> davmor2, hal, afaik
[15:01] <davmor2> ara: if it's hal that might be part of you problem with it's depreciation
[15:01] <ara> davmor2, mmm, maybe it is not hal, let me check (it is not dbus, for sure)
[15:01] <ara> davmor2, it is CORBA
[15:02] <cr3> ara: thanks for the update
[15:03] <davmor2> ara: Meh not that then
[15:30] <davmor3> someone ping me please
[15:31] <davmor2> davmor3: ping
[15:31] <davmor3> nice
[15:32] <davmor3>  the minimsed button just sits there glowing pleasantly on UNR
[15:32] <davmor3> :)
[15:35]  * davmor2 is now confused as to why davmor3 hasn't logged off considering the netbook is switched off
[15:36] <jpds> Still has to ping timeout.
[15:38] <fader_> davmor3: He's onto you!  Run!
[15:39] <davmor2> fader_: you wouldn't say that if you knew he was the killer of olde ye boston town
[15:40] <davmor2> Yay
[15:41] <fader_> You wacky Wulfrunians ;)
[15:44] <davmor2> fader_: yow lestn up yow, liss o' dat or wem come o'er dare and get yow.  Widdit!
[15:45] <fader_> davmor2: Can you translate that to American?
[15:46] <davmor2> fader_: you listen up you, less of that or we'll come over there and get you.  With it!
[15:46] <fader_> I see.  Thanks.
[15:49] <davmor2> fader_: as a non-natural born Wulfrunian I have to put up with that all day ;)
[15:50] <davmor2> also white people who think they can speak patwa (probably spelt wrong but you'll get the idea)
[16:01] <ara> cr3, I am going to be making the changes in order to get things in shape in mago for checkbox at lp:~/apulido/mago/checkbox-cert
[16:01] <ara> cr3, can you use that branch instead of trunk when getting the mago tests ?
[16:03] <ara> cr3, and one question, those are run agaisnt a clean karmic installation, aren't they?
[16:04] <ara> lp:~apulido/mago/checkbox-cert
[16:09] <cr3> ara: why are these changes checkbox specific? why not push your changes into mago trunk?
[16:09] <cr3> ara: yes, tests are run against clean installations
[16:09] <ara> cr3, some of us involve skipping some test cases while I am investigating. others imply having a configuration for evolution
[16:10] <ara> cr3, more or less they will be the same, and I will try to keep them synchronized
[16:10] <cr3> ara: evolution tests are already being skipped, as well as pidgin tests. which other tests are being skipped?
[16:10] <ara> cr3, how do you skip them and why?
[16:11] <cr3> ara: the proper way to skip tests would be to blacklist them in checkbox-certification rather than use another branch, I want to benefit from the latest crack in your trunk
[16:11] <cr3> ara: I skip evolution tests because they require a working email account, which I don't have accessible in the datacenters
[16:11] <cr3> ara: I skip pidigin tests because pidgin is no longer installed by default as far as I know
[16:12] <ara> sure, but in that branch I will put some test configuration for evolution
[16:12] <ara> cr3, that I cannot put into trunk
[16:12] <cr3> ara: can you give me more details about this "test configuration"?
[16:13] <ara> cr3, if you go to the evolution/data folder, there is a credentials.ini.example
[16:13] <ara> cr3, I will provide with one account I created for testing
[16:13] <cr3> ara: are you assuming that I have access to outgoing smtp/pop/imap ports from within datacenters?
[16:14] <ara> cr3, yes, don't you?
[16:14] <cr3> ara: nope, the datacenters have tight security, so I wouldn't waste too much time creating another branch
[16:15] <ara> cr3, well, it will take more time the other way round, but as you'd like
[16:15] <cr3> ara: besides, when I will be mandated to get evolution tests running, I would feel more comfortable configuring checkbox to do the right thing rather than forking mago
[16:16] <cr3> ara: so, same question as before, which other tests do you intend to blacklist in that branch of yours?
[16:17] <ara> cr3, inside the Internet.xml file, the Pidgin test and teh Evolution. i.e. those are test cases within a test suite, can you blacklist those from checkbox?
[16:17] <cr3> ara: probably, let me have a look
[16:19] <cr3> ara: those tests just seem to open evolution and pidgin. out of curiosity, how come those aren't working anymore?
[16:20] <ara> cr3, pidgin: no longer in the menu
[16:20] <davmor2> cr3: pidgin isn't installed ;)
[16:20] <cr3> ara: so why not remove them from the trunk?
[16:21] <cr3> ara: the Internet.xml is under the ubuntu-menu directory, so if ubuntu doesn't have those menus anymore, shouldn't the suite be updated accordingly?
[16:21] <ara> cr3, that's a valid point for pidgin, not for evolution
[16:22] <ara> cr3, how often are those tests run?
[16:22] <cr3> ara: cool, so what's the problem with evolution then :) does opening evolution depend on that credentials.ini file?
[16:22] <cr3> ara: every day
[16:23] <ara> cr3, why I have only two results: https://certification.canonical.com/suite/accessories/case/Open%20Text%20Editor
[16:23] <cr3> ara: because something is broken
[16:23] <cr3> ara: but they are run nonetheless
[16:23] <ara> cr3, I don't understand
[16:24] <cr3> the test is run but the results aren't being reported consistently for mago tests
[16:25] <ara> cr3, mmm, so, where are those reports? it would help me knowing where those were broken
[16:26] <cr3> ara: cool, so if you depend on those reports, I can commit to fixing them to help you out. I'll probably have some results tomorrow then
[16:27] <ara> cr3, I don't depend on them, but they would be helpful
[16:28] <ara> cr3, and, besides, running a test daily and not having reports back is not that much useful
[16:49]  * ara takes a break until her first evening meeting
[16:56] <cr3> davmor2: have you tested alternate images today?
[16:56] <davmor2> no unr and kne mostly
[16:56] <cr3> davmor2: ok, I'm getting debootstrap errors, I'll wait until tomorrow
[16:59] <davmor2> cr3: burning now I'll have a look
[17:01] <cr3> davmor2: thanks, I'm heading out for lunch before the meeting later
[17:30]  * jtatum waves
[17:30]  * ara waves
[17:31]  * rmcbride waves
[17:31] <ara> anyone else for the automation meeting? jcollado? cgregan? eeejay? cr3?
[17:31]  * jcollado waves
[17:32] <davmor2> cr3: got the same thing passing it on to those in the know in form of a bug report
[17:32] <ara> OK, let's start then
[17:32] <ara> [TOPIC] Mago pending merges
[17:32] <ara> We had two pending merges this week
[17:33] <ara> * Blacklist/skip tests by eeejay
[17:33] <ara> after a general approval of the change it was merged into trunk today
[17:34] <ara> I had it documented at http://mago.ubuntu.com/Documentation/RunningTests
[17:34] <ara> have you read it guys? Am I missing or misunderstanding anything?
[17:35] <jtatum> The changes look great and are aligned with my understanding of the skip element. Very thorough!
[17:35] <rmcbride> It makes sense from here. I haven't tried it yet
[17:36] <ara> OK, let's go to the second change:
[17:36] <ara> * Gcalctool (jtatum)
[17:36] <jcollado> One moment
[17:36] <ara> jcollado, go ahead
[17:37]  * ara loves how jcollado always finds something :)
[17:37] <jcollado> I thought that example 3 also run the skipped test cases because the test suite is whitelisted explicitly
[17:38] <ara> jcollado, but that test case was skipped, not the test suite
[17:38] <ara> jcollado, so it is the case that needs to be explicitly called, isn't it?
[17:38] <jcollado> Uhm, not sure
[17:38] <jcollado> Have you run those examples?
[17:39] <ara> jcollado, most of them, that one, particularly, I think I have, but let me run it again
[17:39] <jcollado> skip method is a SuiteData class property
[17:40] <jcollado> I could by my fault, is just that I thought that wasn't the behaviour
[17:40] <jcollado> We can verify later
[17:40] <jcollado> Let's move to the next point
[17:40] <ara> it is skipped, I just tried again
[17:40] <jcollado> Ok, thanks for the verification
[17:41] <davmor2> cr3: bug 435376 for your and fader_ 's viewing
[17:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 435376 in ubuntu "crash during install on alternate cd 20090923" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435376
[17:41] <ara> So, second change, gcalctool (jtatum)
[17:42] <ara> jcollado, made some useful comments and jtatum made the suggested changes
[17:42] <ara> jcollado, if nobody else comment, could you take the action in merging the changes?
[17:42] <jcollado> ara: Sure
[17:43] <ara> jcollado, thanks
[17:43] <ara> Next, then
[17:43] <ara> Mago documentation
[17:44] <ara> This is a call for updating the API documentation for those methods that didn't have or those not up to date
[17:44] <ara> In my opinion, those changes should be merged straight forward, without asking for merge requests
[17:44] <ara> what do you guys think?
[17:45] <mikefletcher> +1
[17:45] <rmcbride> +1
[17:45] <jcollado> I agree
[17:45] <jtatum> Looks like you already did it ;) +1
[17:45] <ara> jtatum, touché!
[17:46] <ara> API doc is here: http://people.canonical.com/~ara/mago_doc/
[17:46] <ara> If you find something in need of an update, feel free to work on it ;-)
[17:46] <jtatum> ara: do you invoke epydoc automatically?
[17:47] <ara> jtatum, I am afraid that not yet. But I will put that as an action item for myself. Thanks for the suggestion
[17:48] <ara> OK, the last item on the list:
[17:48] <ara> How to handle release dependent test cases - framework or branches? (jtatum)
[17:48] <ara> jtatum, go ahead
[17:50] <jtatum> OK. Running all the tests in Mago today is problematic. If you invoke bin/mago and just let it go, eventually you will wind up with a bunch of failed tests and error messages on the screen from both evolution and pidgin (if installed).
[17:50] <ara> very true
[17:50] <jtatum> Basically, the issue I see is that we have tests developed with versions of Ubuntu from intrepid onwards.
[17:51] <jtatum> So I was curious about the plan for this. I have a few ideas but was wondering what everyone thought? Should tests just be for the latest ubuntu and managed with bzr branches or ...?
[17:52] <mikefletcher> fyi, I ran into problems with the gnome screenshot tests because of string charges between Jaunty and Karmic.  The gnome screenshot tests would fail on Jaunty.
[17:53] <jcollado> Maybe it's time to have separate branches for test runnner and and the test cases
[17:53] <jcollado> the runner probably works find regardless the distro
[17:53] <jcollado> but the test cases maybe not
[17:53] <jcollado> s/find/fine/
[17:54] <jcollado> What do you think about having separate branches for tests depending on the distro?
[17:54] <ara> tests and library, isn't it?
[17:54] <ara> because they are very much interrelated
[17:54] <jcollado> ara: Correct. Test suite classes also. I missed that, thanks
[17:55] <jtatum> that might make sense... another possibility might be having a config document. something like default.xml (runs a couple of tests), karmic.xml (runs tests that work in karmic), etc.
[17:56] <jtatum> i know this is a funny time to suggest that, on the day eeejay's skip test cases branch got merged :)
[17:56] <ara> I would prefer jcollado's solution
[17:56] <cgregan> what percentage of cases only work on one version of Ubuntu?
[17:57] <ara> jtatum, problem with having that, is that the library might change because of a change in a string
[17:57] <mikefletcher> jtatum: I agree with Ara.  In the case of my gnome-screenshot the tests are different between Karmic and Jaunty.  You would want them to be in both releases.
[17:58] <jcollado> cgregan: I'd say around 25%, but that's just my own impression
[17:59] <ara> I have the QA meeting now. I have to leave you guys. I will read the backlog and send the notes to the list
[17:59] <jcollado> The problem is that when a test case is updated to the latest version, it's probably broken for the previous one
[18:00] <jtatum> right. but the obvious problem with branches is going to be merging and managing changes across 2-3 branches of tests :)
[18:00] <cr3> davmor2: thanks for pointing me to the bug report, the problem seemed to be package dependency or somesuch related, so I looked at the report.html file on cdimage.u.c but found no errors
[18:01] <davmor2> cr3: fader_ will tell you all about it
[18:02] <jcollado> jtatum: I agree
[18:02] <jcollado> jtatum: Your solution doesn't look bad, but the problem is that it doesn't provide the same test case for multiple distros simultaneously
[18:03] <jcollado> jtatum: Maybe we've got to discuss this further using the maillist
[18:03] <jtatum> no. it's not a great solution at all. in the case of mikefletcher's tests, there would have to be two test cases and two methods in gnome.py, one for jaunty and one for karmic. very ugly. branches are clearly better there.
[18:04] <jtatum> but in the case where pidgin shipped in all these versions of ubuntu and then no longer ships in karmic, a conf file is clearly better.
[18:04] <jtatum> i dunno. branches are probably the winner I guess :)
[18:05] <jcollado> jtatum: For that case a check to make sure that the application is installed would be enough as long as nothing else has to be changed
[18:06] <jtatum> jcollado: true indeed.
[18:07] <jcollado> jtatum: So is it ok to go for the multiple branches solution?
[18:08] <jtatum> jcollado: that seems to be the right answer, and there definitely seems to be consensus. I trust you guys to work out the specifics.
[18:08] <mikefletcher> +1 from me
[18:09] <jcollado> One think to note is that not all branches need the same level of support. Just the last one is supposed to get the new additions while the old ones could be updated just on improvements for test cases that are already included
[18:09] <jcollado> s/think/thing/
[18:10] <jcollado> This way, maintenance shouldn't be really hard
[18:10] <jtatum> jcollado: that makes a lot of sense. "trunk" for karmic until lucid becomes the target for new development, etc
[18:11] <jcollado> Great. I think that the meeting is finished then. Any other think you'd like to comment?
[18:13] <jcollado> Bye
[18:14] <mikefletcher> nope, thanks!
[18:14] <jtatum> good meeting, high fives all around and such
[22:14] <nagappan> cr3, ping
[22:14] <nagappan> cr3, yesterday I had some questions for you
[22:15] <nagappan> cr3, and repeating them today as well :)
[22:15] <nagappan> cr3, I have to use -f option to apport-cli
[22:15] <nagappan> cr3, but when I do K after that (when prompted), I get
[22:15] <nagappan> cr3, "Problem report file: None"
[22:15] <nagappan> cr3, when I try view it on the screen it works fine, but since its 266KB, I don't want to scroll them and copy
[22:21] <nagappan> cr3, seems this bug fixed in karmic https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/94130
[22:21] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 94130 in ubuntuone-client "HTTPS over proxy fails" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[22:21] <nagappan> cr3, but I'm unable to install karmic on this box, so I can report the issue with Ubuntu 9.04 only :(
[22:25] <cr3> nagappan: once you have generated that file from your desktop behind the proxy, copy it over to a laptop which is not behind the proxy and run apport-cli -c /path/to/file/generated/on/desktop
[22:26] <nagappan> cr3, I'm unable to generate the file
[22:26] <nagappan> cr3, when I press L
[22:26] <nagappan> sorry K
[22:26] <nagappan> cr3, I get Problem report file: None
[22:26] <cr3> nagappan: how did you call apport-cli exactly?
[22:26] <nagappan> cr3, /usr/bin/apport-cli -f -p xorg
[22:32] <cr3> nagappan: hm, I can reproduce the problem here on < karmic
[22:32] <cr3> nagappan: maybe there's a bug with apport, could you report a bug about it?
[22:32] <nagappan> cr3, :)
[22:32] <cr3> it seems strange that we can view the report but we can't save it
[22:33] <cr3> it's fun how we need to report a bug in order to report another bug later :)
[22:33] <nagappan> cr3, we need the DELL issue fixed on Ubuntu 9.10, which is required for our upcoming VMware workstation release
[22:33] <nagappan> cr3, ya :)
[22:33] <nagappan> cr3, can you please suggest me the ubuntu X channel ? where I can ping some one
[22:34] <nagappan> cr3, and will request to reproduce them at their end
[22:34] <nagappan> cr3, if they have any such hardware
[22:35] <nagappan> cr3, Ubuntu is our default platform of our testing, BTW :) so its very important to us
[22:35] <cr3> nagappan: try to ping tseliot tomorrow morning, he's probably out now
[22:37] <nagappan> cr3, sure
[22:37] <nagappan> cr3, thanks :)
[22:40] <nagappan> cr3, fixed it :D
[22:40] <nagappan> cr3, in apport-cli file
[22:40] <nagappan> cr3, added these lines
[22:40] <nagappan>                 fp = open('/tmp/apport-cli.txt', 'w')
[22:40] <nagappan>                 if fp:
[22:40] <nagappan>                     fp.write(details)
[22:40] <nagappan>                     fp.close()
[22:40] <nagappan> cr3, and now the file is dumped :)
[22:40] <nagappan> cr3, will upload the log shortly
[22:41] <cr3> nagappan: can you follow up with that fix to bug #435528
[22:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 435528 in apport "apport-cli returns None when attempting to keep report file on Jaunty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435528
[22:44] <nagappan> cr3, sure :)
[23:23] <nagappan> jtatum, rmcbride, ping
[23:23] <nagappan> can one of you upload one report to launchpad for me ?
[23:23] <nagappan> I could not do it, as I'm behind the proxy
[23:23] <nagappan> can I send the file to you ?
[23:26] <nagappan> somebody else also can ping me too :)
[23:28] <rmcbride> nagappan: I can try to help. I'm cooking dinner so I'm kind of in and out of my office at this point but I'll do what I can
[23:30] <nagappan> rmcbride, sure, thanks :) will email the report to you
[23:36] <nagappan> rmcbride, emailed to your canonical id, thanks :)
[23:37] <nagappan> also currently launchpad.net is down for maintenance
[23:37] <rmcbride> nagappan: I got it. I'll file the report for you once I finish dinner (and LP is back in R/W mode)
[23:37] <nagappan> rmcbride, sure, thanks :)
[23:50] <jtatum> hi nagappan :)
[23:50] <nagappan> hi jtatum :)
[23:50] <nagappan> jtatum, rmcbride helped / agreed to upload the bug info on behalf of me :) thanks !
[23:52] <jtatum> nagappan: I saw, just saying hi :)
[23:52] <nagappan> jtatum, :)