[09:04] DBO: Thinking about the desktop-switcher situation [09:04] DBO: I always thought it was awful to do things this way, but I just realized a fundamental step we're missing [09:05] DBO: Most GConf settings are influenced by unr-default-settings; as you point out, this might be missing if one installs UNR manually from a desktop install [09:05] DBO: I think we can approach things either by saying that this is not supported and forcing desktop-switcher to pull the meta package for instance, or just advertizing it [09:06] DBO: Or we can approach them by making installation / removal of unr-default-settings part of desktop-switcher [09:06] Or enabling / disabling of the settings [09:07] That would mean desktop-switcher wouldn't need to change any gconf setting [09:07] Hmm except the panel ones which have to be merged [09:07] grmpf [09:14] njpatel: Let me paste the last lines for you [09:14] njpatel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/276878/ [09:15] njpatel: I'm mostly pondering this from a "which fixes can we crank in d-s this cycle before we rewrite it / obsolete it in the lucid" [09:16] lool: I'm not sure what we're fixing there? [09:18] njpatel: *cough* we neither, I'm pondering a more stable solution to the changing gconf settings dance [09:18] s/we/me [09:18] Oh I see :) [09:18] because the gconftool --load didn't work when debugging this on IRC with an user the other day [09:18] and reset didn't work either [09:18] Well it only works one way [09:19] njpatel: I'd love if we could reduce the number of pathes / amount of code to start with [09:19] sometimes you need to wipe ~/.config/desktop-switcher, as it may have saved panel setup there [09:19] Currently there's the saved panel stuff and the copying of the defaults from unr-default-settings to d-s which fuzzy things a lot [09:19] njpatel: Yeah [09:20] If we could avoid one or the two of these, it would be great [09:20] Reducing desktop-switcher to basically changing the gconf path and perhaps giving the option to reset to the default settings [09:21] lool: I'm not sure how much can be done for Karmic now, we're running out of time and I don't have much time myself [09:21] njpatel: Ok; that settles the discussion then [09:21] njpatel: I just thought about it while reading jason's merge [09:23] lool: Yep, but I think that the two session thing is what we should aim for. The main reason for "classic mode" was that gl+vga output was a bit weird on hardy + intrepid. It was better on Jaunty and now it works really well (on the netbooks I have) in Karmic, so I think we should give less prominence to the switcher for ludid [09:23] lucid* [09:23] lool: I need to restart, bbiab [12:44] * MacSlow -> lunch === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch === chaotic_ is now known as chaotic === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [14:14] MacSlow: hi... any info on Bug #428509 , the notifications are still not fixed , davidbarth said that this was a bug [14:14] Launchpad bug 428509 in notify-osd "Do not suppress async notifications when using fullscreen apps" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428509 [14:15] mac_v, I've not yet had time to work on that... crashers and mem-leaks kept me busy... rolling 0.9.22 atm... after that I'll get back to bug-squashing [14:16] MacSlow: sure... no probs ,just wanted to know it would be eventually fixed... :) thanks [14:35] DanRabbit: ? [15:36] djsiegel: ping [15:36] DanRabbit: oh thank god [16:16] MacSlow, mind giving me a sanity check here? [16:17] DBO, where, how, what? :) [16:17] maximus-app.c [16:17] line 157 or so [16:17] see where it says if (type == None || !data) [16:18] DBO, one sec... need to grab that from bzr [16:18] I theorize proper behavior is if (type != hints_atom || !data) [16:18] but your X speak is a little better than mine [16:19] DBO, it's in lp:maximus, right? [16:19] right [16:20] DBO, lp:~jassmith/maximus/crash-fixes ? [16:20] well that has my changes [16:20] I didn't propose yet because I have not been able to test it yet [16:20] DBO, grabbing lp:maximus now [16:23] * DBO pokes njpatel, you are not on gtalk :P [16:23] DBO, since hints_atom gets set by gdk_x11_get_xatom_by_name_for_display() a few lines up I would leave it like if (type == None || !data) [16:23] DBO: hey hey, I think gmail/gchat is down [16:23] DBO, god forbid... not another social-networking service :) [16:24] DBO, if (type == None || !data) reads easier than if (type != hints_atom || !data) imo [16:24] MacSlow, well type is set as the actual type of the property returned by XGetWindowProperty right? [16:24] and hints_type is the type we requested [16:24] DBO, yeah type gets set by XGetWindowProperty() [16:25] so in theory, cant XGetWindowProperty, under situations of extreme weirdness, return something other than none or hints_type [16:25] DBO: also may help if we actually set type to None when we declare it [16:25] DBO, I would not expect that [16:25] DBO, btw... I would even thing that it's either type == None && !data or type == hints_atom && data [16:26] DBO: that goes for all the data that we &send to XGetWindowProperty. I don't know why I didn't do that initially [16:26] DBO, I don't think data is set if type == None [16:26] it was all too much for him [16:26] X11 has that effect on people [16:26] can't blame him [16:26] :) [16:26] DBO, re [16:26] sorry [16:26] xchat froze [16:26] see... X11 :) [16:27] DBO: x11 knew you were talking about it [16:27] DBO, it hates you... and everybody who touches it [16:27] DBO, so is that maximus-app.c:157 crashing? [16:28] hard to say, some traces seem to say yes 170 is crashing [16:28] DBO: in case you missed it, I think all those variables need to be made = NULL on declaration, I'm not sure how I missed that in the first place [16:28] and that makes me curious [16:29] DBO, I suggest... [16:29] DBO: at the moment type and data could be random and therefore we could be doing bogus things and crash [16:29] njpatel, indeed... [16:29] if (type == None && !data) {} else if (type == hints_atom && data ) {...} else { g_assert ("Impossible!\n"); } [16:30] MacSlow, that makes me happier [16:30] DBO: hints/type/format/nitems/bytes_after all should be made = NULL. I'm really annoyed about that now :( [16:30] DBO, anything else does not make sense to me atm [16:30] njpatel, my reading of the xmanual seems to imply that those values MUST get initialized [16:30] DBO: don't assert [16:30] even if the result is 0 length [16:30] DBO: just g_warning [16:31] fair enough [16:31] yeah... g_assert() is a bit overly pedantic... I just was trying to get a point across [16:31] DBO, I hope that'll help fixing it [16:32] * MacSlow goes and grabs some coke [16:32] I hate coffee [16:33] * DBO notes that at least in american english, grabbing some coke would refer to the drug, while grabbing a coke refers to the beverage [16:34] DBO: I don't think they'll be initialised if there was an error, so that may be it [16:34] DBO, ah... devil is in the detail again [16:34] * MacSlow meant a can of coke [16:37] njpatel, ok after reading the Xlib manual again, it is ambiguous about setting those variables in error conditions [16:37] njpatel, for some reason I had convinced myself it does... [16:40] DBO: i had a look at the source (or something I believe was the source :) ) and it doesn't look like it does [16:40] ok, then I have initialized all the integers to 0 and the pointers/structs to NULL [16:41] hi all, i'd like some gui/text advice. When you choose to open a file in "Another application", you get the Open With dialog. "Problem" is that you might not always want to open this file with the selected application, but that's how it's done right now. The default application for the file type is associated with the application. I'd like to be optional. Where should this checkbox be placed and what should the text be? [16:42] njpatel, ok pushed that fix up [16:43] MDC1, what? [16:43] DBO, not clear at all? :-) [16:43] not really [16:43] hehe [16:43] DBO: thanks [16:43] ok.. i'll go thru it slowly :) [16:44] njpatel, thank you for pointing out my mistake :) [16:44] DBO: I think it was my mistake dude :) [16:44] I feel somewhat embarrassed but happy it worked out [16:44] pick a random file, right click and select "Open with Other Application" [16:44] MDC1, done [16:44] DBO, pick the application that's currently NOT default for that mime type [16:45] hit ok [16:45] MDC1, okay [16:45] time for the capoeira-break [16:45] * MacSlow -> capoeira === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|capoeira [16:45] DBO, next time you open that file the new application will be the default [16:46] is that the thing he does where he flies around like a super hero? I saw a video of that once.... [16:46] DBO, i'd like to make that default association an option in the dialog [16:46] * DBO has seemingly found a counter example [16:47] DBO, like "[X] Always open this type of file with this application" [16:47] MDC1, mine does not behave in this manner [16:47] DBO, hmm.. lemme check [16:47] mine does not try to open text files with Movie Player now :P [16:48] DBO, actually you're right [16:48] i know [16:48] its cuz Im sweet [16:48] and a winner [16:48] DBO, BUT you do get gedit in the right click list [16:48] yaddayadda [16:48] yes [16:48] and now I have movie player as a suggested app for all my text files [16:48] and that i'd like to change (instead) [16:49] annoyingly stupid to be sure [16:49] ok.. so you're kinda with me 'bout the roblem? :) [16:49] aren't you the dude making Nautilus not suck? :) [16:49] at least trying to.. [16:50] am i making it suck more now :) [16:50] ok so here is what *I* would do [16:50] ? [16:50] since I believe more UI is rarely the answer [16:50] have it work in this manner [16:50] step one) make the stupid Open With Other Application dialog not show a single application more than once (if two entries have the same name, dont add the second entry) [16:51] DBO, also see this https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92497 about this.. [16:51] Gnome bug 92497 in File and Folder Operations "RFE: it should be possible to open a file with an application, without associating" [Enhancement,New] [16:51] step two) make it so that if you select an application thats default mime types do *not* support the selected file [16:51] dont add it to the right click menu [16:51] so if I open a .txt file with Banshee music player, silly for sure, but at least its not a mistake i have to live with [16:52] if I open a .txt file with Open Office, then go ahead and add it to the right click menu [16:52] DBO, if i'm not mistaken - all applications that matches the mime type is already in the popup menu [16:53] * DBO double checks [16:53] no [16:53] hm.. got an example? [16:53] got banshee installed? [16:54] nope, but that's not a problem :-) [16:54] ok totem? [16:54] installing... [16:54] cat /usr/share/applications/totem.desktop | grep pdf [16:54] note the lack of PDF support [16:55] right click a pdf file, check out that other applications list, note the option to open it with totem/banshee [16:55] (Totem shows up as Movie Player) [16:56] ahh. no no [16:56] i mean in the context menu [16:56] yeah I know [16:56] all applications that handles the specific mime type is already in the context menu.. [16:56] if you actually tell it to open the pdf with banshee/totem [16:56] so? [16:56] banshee/totem then show up in the context menu [16:56] yes [16:57] so basically, the problem from as far as I can see isn't that it adds thing to the context menu [16:57] but that it adds STUPID things to the context menu [16:57] but isn't open with almost useless then? isn't that a good way to use your favorit hex editor and edit the movie [16:58] ok.. so you suggest not adding anything to the context menu at all? [16:58] (at least not from the open with dialog) [16:58] no, I suggest not adding things to the context menu that dont explicitly support that mime type [16:58] but all of them are already there... [16:58] no [16:58] no? [16:59] hmm.. i'm obviously missing something here :) [16:59] ahhh yes [16:59] sorry I reinstalled my OS a couple days ago [17:00] I dont have half the apps installed I thought I did [17:00] haha [17:00] ok then yes, I support not adding anything from the Open With Other Application dialog [17:00] no option, just dont do it because likely its stupid [17:01] DBO, did you see the bug? [17:01] yes [17:01] I think if you want to fix something big first that has real "wtf is this crap" kind of feel [17:01] make it so applications dont show up in the opne with other app dialog more than once [17:02] shouldn't be too hard [17:02] actually i don't think fixing the problem there is the right thing to do [17:02] the apps problaby has a few too many .desktop files somewhere.. [17:03] and that creates problem on more problems than this (i think the run dialog has problem like this too) [17:03] MDC1: might be nice to design a new open with dialog that has a category picker on the left [17:03] All [17:03] Accessories [17:03] Internet [17:03] Office [17:03] etc [17:03] I bet users would find it much easier to use if it looked like the main menu [17:04] MDC1, it looks like if you just pay attention to the NoDisplay key in the .desktop files, it will fix the issue [17:04] djsiegel, but you agree that we should not add it to the context menu list? [17:04] banshee ships 3 .desktop files, but only 1 isn't marked NoDisplay [17:05] DBO, what command is the other one executing? [17:05] *ones [17:05] they just have different arguments [17:06] one opens the CD player [17:06] the other actually doesn't seem to do anything special [17:06] and it wouldn't make sense to open a file with any of them with NoDisplay? [17:06] well they all have the same name [17:06] file a bug against Banshee? :-) [17:07] so you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in the selector anyhow [17:07] but i'll take a look if i can filter out the NoDisplay entries [17:07] I really think its a solid idea :) [17:07] DBO, true (unless they have different descriptions) [17:07] same description [17:08] even if they were different, you would have to scrub through them [17:09] DBO, ok, thanks a lot - i'll see what can be done :) [17:09] thank you for cleaning up a core application [17:10] and if you really wanna just whore out to me, you could implement the column view that Dolphin has.... that view is so sexy.... [17:10] thanks, but the hard part is getting the devs to review and commit patches [17:10] DBO, got a screenshot? [17:11] http://rudd-o.com/en/linux-and-free-software/a-cursory-look-into-kde-4-file-management-dolphin-beta/the-new-finder-like-column-view-in-dolphin.jpg [17:12] basically, selection a folder in the first column displays its contents in the second column [17:12] DBO, ah. a mac finder clone. actually i was thinking about doing this a couple of days ago.. [17:12] yeah [17:12] i didn't want to say finder :P [17:12] hehe [17:13] and it shouldn't be *that* hard.. but still - do you know how many angry users that would say "AHHH!! how can you implement new features with out fixing this super mega important bug first that will make the whole world turn to linux in a blink of an eye!!!" [17:14] such as fixing the list view and a lot of other bugs.. :) [17:14] do what i do "I didn't get paid to do this, get over it" [17:14] hehe [17:14] unless I did get paid to do it [17:14] then I say "well someone paid me to do this, so I didn't have a choice" [17:15] but i think i'm too nice to do that :) [17:15] see, you are covered on all bases, just dont use these excuses in close proximity [17:15] g2g [17:15] bibi! [17:16] * MDC1 wonders if http://library.gnome.org/devel/gio/stable/GAppInfo.html#g-app-info-should-show is the NoDisplay option.... [17:17] (nope, it wasn't) [17:21] (or maybe it was :) ) [17:59] DBO, when you get back; i managed to remove the duplicates from the list but because some applications don't want an option in the menu but still have them in the open list the devs don't want it. So you should file bugs against banshee and others instead. BUT the good news is that a "gtk open with" dialog is probably coming in the next gtk relase (to be used in firefox, nautilus, file-roller etc) - so maybe this will be f [18:03] am here now [18:15] DBO, or wait with bug filing, let's see if "they" can come up with a better idea first... === rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk === MacSlow|capoeira is now known as MacSlow [20:01] MacSlow, did neil leave already :( [20:02] DBO, apparently ... I just came back from capoeira about 25 min. ago [20:02] so sad [20:02] DBO, got stuck with debugging? [20:03] not exactly [20:04] * DBO frustrated with the lack of bugs that seem to be actionable for him, goes back to notify-osd memory hunting [20:04] sorry I havent gotten any real results yet, I havent had much time on it [20:05] DBO, np... I've got some fixed (most I could see via valgrind being caused directly by notify-osd) and they are part of the 0.9.22 release I rolled today [20:05] sweet [20:05] DBO, left are tricky ones where stuff gets leaked in libpango & firends [20:06] DBO, that's very nasty [20:06] DBO, so don't stress it [20:06] DBO, atm I only see action to be taken in those libs [20:07] DBO, but if you still find sources of mem-leaks in notify-osd tell me and/or hand me a patch [20:07] DBO, in 0.9.22 there's a temp. work-around in notify-osd forcing a shutdown/restart to deal with the leakage [20:08] nasty but unavoidable... there had to be something done about the issue [20:08] DBO, fixing the related libs would take a lot of time [20:08] at least that my current point of view [20:08] I could still me overlooking something in the valgrind-logs [20:15] MacSlow, something doesnt add up [20:15] libpango and friends are used in almost every gtk application [20:15] what about your use case is so different? [20:16] DBO, that's why I certainly don't rule out I'm overlooking something in notify-osd... but atm I can't see anything still being wrong [20:17] DBO, sofar I've only looked at valgrind-logs... not taken the "just analyse code"-approach yet [20:17] do you know what type of objects are leaking? [20:18] DBO, such calls leak pango_cairo_show_layout(cr, layout) [20:19] that very much so confuses me... [20:19] DBO, directly from main.c from gtk_main() stuff in g_option_* leaks [20:19] DBO, tons of that I don't know what to do about [20:20] DBO, I'm as confused as you are there. [20:20] * DBO loves when things get like that [20:20] it means that we are about to learn something! [20:20] DBO, I _can't_ wait to see what that'll be :) [20:21] jono, hey there... [20:21] jono, seen those "terrific" Windows 7 install/launch party videos yet? [20:22] * SiDi sends a kitten at MacSlow [20:22] jono, we should recreate those Linux-style :) [20:22] SiDi, hey there [20:22] hiya [20:22] DBO, did you see my message? [20:23] MacSlow, I forgot to tell you, I love the number of blurs you implemented :P [20:23] MDC1, yeah [20:23] DBO, and alex did wanted a checkbox ... implementing it now ... [20:23] DBO, e.g. just as an exercise I ran notify-osd against upstream libfontconfig (2.7.x instead of 2.6.0) and all of a sudden a lot of fontconfig-related valgrind hits were gone [20:24] DBO, well... two of the three are actually not finished (thus not used) yet [20:24] DBO, sad thing is... those missing two are the super-fast onese [20:24] DBO, another "bug" I need to fix still [20:25] DBO, it's a real pain the blurs have to be done via the CPU [20:26] indeed [20:26] why not just box blur 3x? [20:26] DBO, and such filter functionalitiy isn't exposed directly by cairo yet [20:26] its really fast and works 97% of gaussian? [20:26] DBO, stack and exponential-blur are like that [20:27] and are very close to real gaussian blur in terms of quality [20:28] DBO, it would be very ugly to see the blur-quality between the compiz-plugin blur (behind the bubble) be visually very different from the in-bubble (contant) blur [20:29] it would be really nice to use the compiz blur when available [20:33] * SiDi wants compiz blur on xubuntu :( [20:33] g2g [20:33] brb [20:33] btw MacSlow, i should suppose that there is less than NO chance for my patch to be included in karmic ? [20:37] SiDi, the gconf-stuff?! [20:37] MacSlow: yes [20:37] SiDi, I'll still have that on my plate... starting this weekend or monday [20:37] oh, so its still planned ? :p [20:37] SiDi, I said I'll get it in, so I will [20:37] because i have to know if i have to refresh it a little or not [20:37] okies, thanks then [20:38] i was gettiing a bit worried as release date approaches and you still have so much to do [20:38] SiDi, crashers and mem-leaks only got really nasty this week... otherwise I'd started this week already on the gconf-bits [20:38] yeh i noticed that crash thing [20:45] new kernel -> reboot [20:52] "New upstream snapshot taken from r276 as djsiegel and upstream say we [20:52] should be running the bzr rev of the day or we're doomed to have ugly [20:52] graphics. :-P" (changelog from humanity icons) [20:54] MDC1: lol , where was that ? [20:54] i mean *when* [20:55] mac_v, hmm, might be the update today or yesterday [20:55] not sure when i last updated [20:55] * mac_v updating [20:56] I also see that the update manager has got some love :) [20:56] MDC1: lool has a way with words... i didnt say *doomed* ;p [20:57] there was an error and i said it was fixed in the latest package [20:57] but still some window titles says "update-manager" and "check" and "install updates" buttons still have icons [20:57] hehe [20:57] otherwise i'm happy with the changes :) [20:58] and i'm glad we use the bzr version so we're not doomed ;) [20:58] * mac_v > reboots [20:58] bibi [21:05] mac_v, that was more than the 10 seconds it should take to boot ;-) [21:05] mac_v, but was the art nice? [21:05] hehei booted twice;) [21:05] that good huh? ;-) [21:06] ;p [21:06] i was testing the boot time ... my boot time is roughly 1min6secs , in jaunty it was 1mins 45secs [21:07] MDC1: so we are getting to 10secs slowly ;) [21:07] hehe [21:07] i'll do a reboot with my virtual box.. [21:09] mac_v, when will the new gdm theme enter karmic? [21:11] MDC1: no idea , [21:16] djsiegel: ping [21:26] MDC1: Oh that's old, that was at least three humanity uploads ago [21:26] MDC1: You're not in the rev of the day spirit [21:27] lool, hehe - yeah, i was probably caught in too much hacking and forgot to update :) [21:38] btw when you do new humanity icons [21:38] feel free to backport them to elementary (with the blue colour palette :p) [21:46] SiDi: working on it ;) [21:46] ^^ [21:47] we're very very likely to use elementary btw [21:57] cool [21:57] It's been untouched for a while, that's for sure. [21:57] A lot of work has been going into Humanity === rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk [22:06] SiDi, who is "we" [22:07] DBO: xubuntu [22:08] * DBO loves it [22:08] not xubuntu, but the concept of xubuntu using xfce [22:08] erm [22:08] xubuntu using elementary [22:08] lol [22:08] sorry, I am feeling a bit loony right now [22:10] DBO: was xubuntu using xfce ironical ? :P [22:10] we're often criticized because we dont use xfce enough :P [22:10] idiotical [22:11] really? [22:11] why? [22:12] Because we use quite a few gnome deps [22:12] the why is a long debate that i really dont want to have a thursday evening :p - and i'm not responsible for any decisions made, i'm merely an external contributor, so its not my concern [22:13] but people rant a lot about gnome apps, sometimes with arguments and sometimes for the sake of noise [22:13] SiDi, those kinds of things hold no interest to me [22:13] use whatever works bust I say [22:15] i think its why we try to do globally [22:15] but of course sometimes an app works best for some and not for others [22:35] DBO: I like bust too! [22:36] oh yeah [22:36] loooooooopy dbo is loopy [22:36] :D [22:37] DBO: so what's the status on the panel icon patch? [22:37] nobody told me to do it? [22:40] hehe [22:41] DBO: how hard do you think it'd be to patch the applets to use a different icon? [22:41] just to use a different icon? [22:41] which applets? [22:42] the main ones, Network, Sound, etc [22:43] easy as pie [22:43] why? [22:43] the problem we're facing right now is that these icons also show up in applications [22:43] so, it makes for a lot of inconsistency [22:43] for example: [22:44] so why dont we take the name of the icon [22:44] say network-stuff.svg [22:44] if we draw a new bluetooth icon in monochrome, it's going to show up in System>Preferences as a monochrome icon [22:44] and make it network-stuff-greyscale.svg [22:44] that would be awesome [22:44] or even better would be: network-stuff-panel.svg [22:44] DBO: we cant create new names and patch all apps ;) [22:44] right [22:44] because I think it's more generic. [22:45] mac_v, I didn't say ubuntu would like it [22:45] I just said I could do it [22:45] Well, we could at least solve some basic problems this way if we could convince the higher ups ;) [22:45] mac_v, also we are talking about patching the applets, not the apps, so there are a limited number of those [22:45] yea, third part apps would still be untouched [22:46] DBO: another thing is we cant add app specific icons in the default theme [22:46] the *other* option is to give the panel as a whole a different icon theme, though I'd have to check if that can be done [22:46] That would be nice [22:46] +1 [22:46]