[00:55] <LaserJock> evening everybody
[04:10] <alkisg> LaserJock: in the gui/ltsp mail, are you reffering to the desktop or the alternate cd?
[04:10] <alkisg> (so, casper or d-i ?)
[04:40] <LaserJock> alkisg: casper
[04:40] <alkisg> LaserJock: ok, I just send a mail with some thoughts about it
[04:40] <LaserJock> if we can I'd like to go all Live and not have the d-i part at all
[04:41] <alkisg> I sent a mail with a way to go live *and* have live ltsp with no DVD space cost
[04:41] <LaserJock> what if we have a package (.deb) that holds the chroot?
[04:41] <alkisg> Scripting that is easy; but I don't know how easy it will be to actually embed it in the dvd building process
[04:42] <alkisg> Did the mail arrive yet?
[04:42] <LaserJock> so you'd be stuck with a same-arch chroot, but that's sort of a small limitation I'd think
[04:42] <LaserJock> yep
[04:42] <alkisg> No need for a chroot .deb, that would be huge...
[04:42] <Ahmuck_Sr> after karamic, can we focus on a foundation of solid apps
[04:42] <alkisg> You can regenerate it in 1 minute with ltsp-update-image
[04:43] <LaserJock> alkisg: how so?
[04:43] <Ahmuck_Sr> alkisg: only if you have ltsp
[04:43] <LaserJock> Ahmuck_Sr: if we get the foundation to build them on, yeah :-)
[04:43] <alkisg> Ah, sorry, you said chroot and not image
[04:43] <Ahmuck_Sr> if instead your doing ldap & nfs, then it's different
[04:43] <Ahmuck_Sr> LaserJock: we do
[04:43] <LaserJock> Ahmuck_Sr: oh really?
[04:43] <Ahmuck_Sr> start with the installer and identify different ways edubuntu would be installed
[04:43] <Ahmuck_Sr> ltsp or ldap + nfs or ...
[04:44] <LaserJock> I'm not sure we have the present installer figured out though
[04:44] <Ahmuck_Sr> btw, imho, a gui installer is not needed yet
[04:44] <Ahmuck_Sr> most people coming in are tripping over ltsp installs
[04:44] <Ahmuck_Sr> and or ldap + nfs
[04:44] <Ahmuck_Sr> what's not figured out about the present installer
[04:45] <alkisg> LaserJock: but if the chroot was in a .deb, wouldn't that .deb "own" those files? How would we update them?
[04:46] <alkisg> LaserJock: Due to squashfs removing duplicates, I don't think that having /opt/ltsp/<arch> on the DVD takes more that a few MB of space...
[04:46] <LaserJock> Ahmuck_Sr: well, currently I don't think you can install LTSP from the DVD
[04:46] <Ahmuck_Sr> ah, that is a problem
[04:46] <LaserJock> alkisg: how does the removing of duplicates work?
[04:47] <alkisg> Automatically
[04:47] <LaserJock> well, but I mean, what are we duplicating?
[04:47] <alkisg> E.g. /opt/ltsp/i386/bin/* files are duplicates of /bin/* files
/usr is more or less a duplicate of /usr, and so on
[04:48] <alkisg> (subset of course)
[04:48] <LaserJock> I see
[04:49] <LaserJock> does that work via hashes or something?
[04:49] <alkisg> I don't know how squashfs detects duplicates, but yes, I imagine that it uses hashes
[04:51] <alkisg> So I think that if you built a dvd without /opt/ltsp/i386, and then another with the chroot in it, the difference wouldn't be more than e.g. 30 Mb...
[04:55] <LaserJock> well, that'd be cool
[04:55] <LaserJock> so then the question is how to get it on there
[04:55] <alkisg> LaserJock: but I have no clue about the dvd building process. How would the chroot be embedded in the dvd?
[04:56] <alkisg> (I can make the necessary scripts for live ltsp, no problem there - it's the packaging that worries me)
[05:00] <LaserJock> well, I guess you could run the ltsp chroot build script run from the postinst of a package
[05:00] <LaserJock> it might cause the build process to take significantly longer
[05:01] <LaserJock> but it would have a local mirror I believe
[05:01] <LaserJock> so maybe not so long
[05:01] <alkisg> But what if ltsp-build-client wants to ask the user something?
[05:01] <alkisg> E.g. with the alternate cd, the user is notified if he doesn't have 2 nics...
[05:02] <alkisg> (with a debconf dialog, which he needs to close with [OK], not just with a message)
[05:02] <alkisg> ....bah sorry that's not build client
[05:02] <alkisg> ...that's the installer part
[05:03] <alkisg> OK, so that might actually work! :)
[05:05] <LaserJock> I doubt we can get any of this for Karmic
[05:05] <LaserJock> so there's a little time to think about a good implementation
[05:05] <alkisg> I understand. It would be nice to have for Lucid, though.
[05:06] <alkisg> I'm willing to do the "ltsp live" script... the packaging should better be done by someone else with more experience :)
[05:07] <LaserJock> well, I wonder if that's all that's needed
[05:08] <alkisg> Is removing ltsp-server automatically for those that don't want ltsp a problem?
[05:08] <LaserJock> well, we'd have to figure out a way to do it
[05:08] <LaserJock> but it should be feasible
[05:13] <LaserJock> we would need lots and lots of testing
[05:13] <LaserJock> I'm not sure that we can make a "ltsp live" with as much flexibility as the Alternate CD gives now
[05:15] <alkisg> Sorry, I didn't understand that. What flexibility does the alternate cd offer?
[05:15] <LaserJock> well, because it can ask questions
[05:15] <LaserJock> and builds on the server itself
[05:16] <alkisg> I don't think it asks any questions while building the chroot...
[05:16] <LaserJock> a "ltsp live" would be built on the DVD builder machine and just copy over the contents
[05:16] <alkisg> it just pops an error message if one doesn't have 2 nics
[05:16] <LaserJock> right, but there's an amount of "behind the scenes" stuff that may cause interesting bugs
[05:22] <alkisg> I'll choose to see that from the positive side: this way, if the edubuntu build fails, we'll know that there's a problem with the ltsp-build process and fix it before shipping edubuntu :D
[05:22] <LaserJock> heh
[05:22] <LaserJock> well, it at least seems feasible to do
[05:23] <LaserJock> but I think it's going to take some people getting into some of the guts of ubiquity and the DVD build process
[05:23] <LaserJock> thankfully the Ubuntu Installer team is really nice and helpful
[05:23] <alkisg> Yeah, that's the part that frightens me :(
[05:24] <alkisg> I'll help as much as I can; and hope that we can make this work. Gotta leave for school... Thanks for everything, LaserJock :)
[05:25] <LaserJock> alkisg: thanks for the all the input and help (past and future)
[05:31] <LaserJock> time for bed
[05:32] <LaserJock> 'night all
[06:51] <alkisg1> highvolt1ge: ping ?
[07:09] <highvolt1ge> alkisg: pong
[07:10] <alkisg> Hi man - I just answered with a mail
[07:10] <highvolt1ge> just read it
[07:10] <alkisg> I also thought about your idea, and it would even be better *if* we were allowed to modify ssh_config to not-check the host...
[07:11] <alkisg> ...and if we didn't mind about the extra dvd space
[07:11] <highvolt1ge> the problem with that is that ubiquity can't selectively install stuff. so it would copy accross all the ltsp chroots and then have to remove them again if a user doesn't want LTSP, making the installation very slow
[07:12] <alkisg> Can't we just rm -rf /opt/ltsp before ubuquity moves on? (if the user didn't select to install ltsp, that is...)
[07:12] <alkisg> It won't be owned by any package...
[07:14] <highvolt1ge> I think ubiquity ignores the tmpfs related changes on the disc
[07:14] <alkisg> OK, let's talk about your idea:
[07:15] <alkisg> If we're allowed to modify /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_config and put "StrictHostKeyChecking no" there,
[07:15] <alkisg> *and* keep a backup of the original file,
[07:15] <alkisg> then we'd be able to use the chroot in a live system (with a dynamic ip),
[07:15] <alkisg> and on a postinst script we would restore the original file on the final installation
[07:15] <highvolt1ge> alkisg: I think that could be done. we could have a script on the desktop that's called something like "run live LTSP server" or something that could set that up
[07:16] <alkisg> No no that needs to be done before the dvd build process
[07:16] <highvolt1ge> alkisg: we probably don't even have to restore the file since those changes will be ignored
[07:16] <highvolt1ge> alkisg: why so?
[07:16] <alkisg> Ahh... (idea)
[07:17] <alkisg> We could make an exception for that in the ltsp init scripts, and bind-mount a modified file on top of it
[07:17] <alkisg> highvolt1ge: (answer to the previous question) well, we would have to extract the chroot from the image, modify the file, and then regenerate the chroot
[07:18] <alkisg> That would need lots of time and lots of RAM; it wouldn't be possible on a live system
[07:18] <alkisg> ****regenerate the image
[07:18] <alkisg> Bah my english doesn't help in me making sense :(
[07:19] <alkisg> highvolt1ge: ok, I think there's a nice solution for that problem.
[07:20] <alkisg> There's an "SSH_OPTIONS" variable in lts.conf which now is broken
[07:20] <alkisg> We could fix it for 10.04 and use it in lts.conf for the live system
[07:20] <highvolt1ge> alkisg: indeed.
[07:21] <alkisg> I think that's a good approach. So, no ssh problems. So yup, I prefer your idea - I don't mind the extra size :)
[07:22] <highvolt1ge> alkisg: I'm not even sure if my suggestion is viable, it's just the safest way I could think of. we'll have to check with the installer team, etc and make sure that it's all fine
[07:24] <alkisg> OK. I don't think I can help with the installer or the packaging, but I'm more than willing to help with the "live" part - i.e. autodetecting network settings and using dnsmasq-base.
[07:25] <alkisg> (and also fixing SSH_OPTIONS)
[07:32] <nubae|work> hi... if a program already has a translated version in launchpad, how does one use this translation?
[07:33] <alkisg> nubae|work: depends
[07:33] <alkisg> If you just want the .mo file, you download it and put it in /usr/...locale
[07:33] <alkisg> if you want it properly updated, it's another (big) story...
[07:34] <alkisg> Which program is that? And which language?
[07:35] <nubae|work> webcontentcontrol
[07:35] <nubae|work> and its for Spanish :-)
[07:35] <nubae|work> u think, downloading the .mo and putting it in locale will work?
[07:37] <alkisg> Yeah sure. But :Uses Launchpad for:                   Answers, Blueprints, Bug Tracking, Code, and Translations.
[07:37] <nubae|work> https://launchpad.net/webcontentcontrol
[07:37] <alkisg> That should be done automatically, unless the translation only happened recently
[07:37] <nubae|work> I guess they dont automatically integrate translation stuff
[07:37] <nubae|work> well, it didnt
[07:37] <alkisg> https://translations.launchpad.net/webcontentcontrol/trunk/+pots/webcontentcontrol/es/+export
[07:38] <nubae|work> translation seems fully finished, but when I start the program with local=es, get just Spanish
[07:38] <nubae|work> ok, so its necessary to export the language files then?
[07:38] <alkisg> Are you involved in the development there?
[07:38] <nubae|work> no
[07:38] <alkisg> The packager should take care of that... the users shouldn't have to download anything
[07:39] <nubae|work> but we need a local solution for webcontent filtering, and this seems to be the best one available...
[07:39] <nubae|work> it basically installs tinyproxy, firehol and dansguardian with a frontend
[07:39] <nubae|work> perfect for installing on netbooks, so far
[07:40] <alkisg> Is the mo file installed in /usr/share/locale-langpack/es/LC_MESSAGES/ ?
[07:43] <nubae|work> alkisg, nope...
[07:44] <alkisg> nubae|work: try to put it there and see if it works (it should)
[07:44] <nubae|work> ok
[07:45] <Balsaq> anyone in here running one of the edubuntu on an apple computer?
[07:45] <Balsaq> edu,xu, ubu...any of them
[07:52] <nubae|work> hmmm, its in there, but doesnt work
[07:53] <nubae|work> perhaps its named wrongly?
[07:57] <nubae|work> yeah, that doesnt work either...
[07:57] <nubae|work> so I have it in its folder, and tried to run using locale=es webcontentcontrol, but comes in English
[07:58] <alkisg> Try with: LANG=es_ES.UTF-8 webcontentcontrol or something similar
[08:02] <alkisg> nubae|work: to check if LANG=xxx actually works, try: LANG=es_ES.UTF-8 ls not_existing_file
[08:03] <alkisg> It should reply in spanish, if it doesn't, then that's not the code for your language
[08:03] <nubae|work> yeah, that works
[08:03] <nubae|work> but doesnt work for webcontentcontrol
[08:03] <alkisg> So something's wrong with the app
[08:04] <nubae|work> translation I guess hasnt been properly integrated
[08:04] <nubae|work> thing is coded in gambas, u'd love it ;-)
[08:06] <Balsaq> well iwasnt going to buy it until ispoke to someone who has experience with that type of computer
[08:12] <alkisg> nubae|work: hey there's a vast difference between a delphi programmer and a vb programmer :P :D
[08:13] <nubae|work> yeah I guess, well now I'm gonna have to touch this mess, as  no one here admits to having used VB or gambas
[08:34] <Balsaq> the folks on the apple channel think ubuntun for apple (called powerpc) is not a good match....glad i checked
[08:35] <Balsaq> seemd to think not much research is being done on it and is kind os a dead issue to some degree...at least on the older stuff iwas interested in
[08:36] <Balsaq> ty
[09:15] <nubae|work> Balsaq, ubuntu should run fine on powerpc
[09:16] <nubae|work> though it hasn't been touched for a while
[09:17] <Balsaq> i would have thought so, am dying to buy an old snowball computer...the apple g4
[09:19] <Balsaq> (nubae0 when you say touched i take it you mean the people who create and improve the software havent benn working on it (nebie here...like just born)
[09:19] <Balsaq> newbie*
[09:20] <Balsaq> the letter are almost comletely worn off this computer so i make errors typing
[09:22] <Balsaq> i am reading about puppy linux, mention running it on apple stuff, mentions osx
[09:30] <nubae|work> have u looked at this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCFAQ?
[09:31] <nubae|work> and yes, thats what I mean above...
[09:43] <Balsaq> thank you nubae
[09:45] <Balsaq> awesome link
[09:46] <Balsaq> not quite sure if those snoball destops are oldschoolmac or newschool mac, would guess newschool being they are about 2002 vintage
[09:47] <Balsaq> prooly try one with xubuntu\
[10:04] <Balsaq> nubae/on the flip side if all the linux engineers aren't working on powerpc it prolly not going to be as nice of an experience as this ubuntu has been on my old dell ( 2days experience here!)
[11:41] <alkisg_work> apt-cacher vs apt-proxy vs approx vs ..., which one should I prefer? Did anyone use any of these? :)
[11:49] <alkisg_work> Hmmmm with apt-cacher-ng I don't need to modify my sources.list ?
[11:54]  * ogra uses approx
[11:58] <alkisg_work> Thanks, ogra... Heh some people are using squid!! I do have squid installed, maybe I'll give that a shot...
[11:58] <ogra> apache is also a good proxy :)
[11:59] <alkisg_work> ogra, does approx allow me to keep my sources.list unmodified?
[12:00] <ogra> i dont use it that way :) i think you need to the proxy settings in the apt config
[12:00] <ogra> *to set
[12:00] <alkisg_work> Nice! Gotta run, bye all
[15:08] <sbalneav> Ugh. Morning all
[15:08]  * sbalneav has been sick
[15:21] <alkisg> Hi sbalneav! We missed you :)
[15:31]  * sbalneav sniffles
[15:31] <sbalneav> due to the cold, not nostalgia